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Velr
Switzerland10979 Posts
If anything Italy is a prime example of a country that should have failed plenty of times but is still alive and well. Its not even funny: huge wealth gap between regions, rampant corruption in some areas, very unstable goverment over large periods of its democratic existance.... Basically the same stuff, that according to many, makes a united EU an unachieavable dream. | ||
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ZBiR
Poland1092 Posts
On March 08 2017 23:06 SoSexy wrote: Exactly. It baffles me how many people from the US consider Europe a natural thing. The US were born together, speaking the same language, fighting a common oppressor. The EU is just an innatural blob: you just need to travel it to see what I mean. The difference between Southern Spain and Finland, for example, is absurde. Apart from Erasmus exchange programs, (which are a nice feature but not enough to keep EU alive) they have nothing in common. Everything is different - shops opening hours, what people drink, what people do in their spare time, how they speak, how they line up waiting for the bus, how they cross the street with red lights on. I'm baffled at how you seem to agree with me, and then argue in favor of what I was against. Subcarpathia is (mostly) in Poland, JFYI. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9332 Posts
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Velr
Switzerland10979 Posts
The difference between Southern Spain and Finland, for example, is absurde. Apart from Erasmus exchange programs, (which are a nice feature but not enough to keep EU alive) they have nothing in common. I interpreted this as basically meaning the EU won't work together because of cultural diffrences. Maybe i misread/misinterpreted. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18486 Posts
On March 08 2017 23:36 SoSexy wrote: Acrofales, I've never seen anyone as intellectually dishonest as you. I suggest a mirror. Bazinga. Your example makes no sense either. The US troops spoke african when they were fighting the British in the Indipendence War? Nope, but their slaves did. Or are you trying to claim there were no Dutch in Nieuw Amsterdam (New York), Haarlem (Harlem) or Breukelen (Brooklyn), no French in Nouveau Orleans, no Hispanics in Florida, and no African slaves working the plantations absolutely all over. Not to mention all the German colonists that I forgot about initially, who were also there when the first 13 states declared independence. Of course, what happened after turned the US into an even larger melting pot of languages and cultures. As LS pointed out, Hawaii has a majority Asian decendants, and the Kanaka Maoli have a strong influence on the culture. The language is mostly English in the street, but I have Hawaiian friends who speak Japanese at home, and of course, Hawaiian is a separate language. A general doctor in Finland can earn 6,000 euro each month. A specialized doctor in Poland can earn 1780 euro. You seriously believe this is the same wage gap that exists between Trento and Palermo? Are you arguing that the EU is not viable because of cultural differences, or too large economic differences? Because it sure seemed like the former. If you want to drop the former and switch to the latter, we can do that too. Italy is a great example of that, because they have one of the largest geographic wage disparities in any European country. And while now the difference is that average wages in the south are only about 75% of that in the north, I would love to see some historic data on that for the mid 19th century. Because insofar as I know, when Italy was unified, the north was in the middle of a booming industrial revolution, and the south was mostly still subsistence farming. The difference was so large that whole books have been written studying the north-south divide in Italy. As for language, my friends from Venice speaks Veneto to his Italian friends and family, and has no real reason for Italian at all. Meanwhile the leading language in Bolzano is German, and Catalan in Sardinia. Sicilian Italian is understood by absolutely nobody but Sicilians, and I could continue on for a while about the differences, but the fact that everybody *can* speak to each other in standard Italian doesn't mean it's the local language. In most of Europe you can travel just fine without speaking any language other than English. A notable exception is Italy  EDIT: I see you have given up on the "it will never work" argument, and have moved over to "we should not want it". How about you give up on the deontic argument too, and just say "I do not want it", which is what you actually mean, and something I cannot possibly argue against. But just because you don't want it, doesn't make it impossible, nor something that should not be done. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9332 Posts
On March 09 2017 00:00 Velr wrote: I interpreted this as basically meaning the EU won't work together because of cultural diffrences. Maybe i misread/misinterpreted. That difference is too big now but nobody said it will stay like that forever. A lot of people who are against the federalization realize it has to happen eventually but don't want to force it now because they think it's too early. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8215 Posts
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kwizach
3658 Posts
Breitbart’s click-hate echo chamber is a threat to Europe. Here’s why Breitbart is not a news website. Nor is it a media outlet, and its staff are not ordinary journalists. Breitbart is a political project, with a specific political agenda, and staffed by willing propagandists. As Hope not Hate’s new report, Breitbart: A rightwing plot to shape Europe’s future shows, while ostensibly a rightwing news outlet like any other, Breitbart is in reality part of a transatlantic political movement with a common worldview and coordinated objectives. It doesn’t just report on events: it seeks to make them and (mis-)shape them. Indeed, Breitbart publishes falsehoods and peddles half-truths. Its unsubstantiated conclusions are drawn from its existing prejudices and published to advance its agenda; Breitbart is a click-hate echo chamber. It fits comfortably within a contemporary movement of people, political parties and philosophical currents that seemingly aim to undermine the current liberal democratic progressive consensus and the societal norms that are derived from it. While Breitbart regularly publishes content that is anti-feminist, homophobic and transphobic, central to its politics is a rejection of multiculturalism, manifest as opposition to immigration and liberal refugee policies. As shown by an analysis of the last 500 articles published on Breitbart London in our new report, one of the website’s main focuses is on migration, especially Muslim immigration into Europe. The heavy focus on the issue is probably derived from the outlook of former Breitbart executive chair Steve Bannon, who believes we are in the grip of a civilisational conflict between the west and the Muslim world. Source | ||
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Simberto
Germany12061 Posts
I was under the assumption that it is a site for crazy right-wing people from the US, that no one except those people takes seriously in any way. I think that even our right-wing crazy people are usually less crazy then the US right.wing crazy people (They are still assholes, but at least sane assholes). For example, i don't think Trump would have a snowballs chance in hell here. I hope i am not proven wrong. | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8215 Posts
On March 09 2017 03:46 Simberto wrote: Wait, there is Breitbart outside of the US? Do people actually read that shit? I was under the assumption that it is a site for crazy right-wing people from the US, that no one except those people takes seriously in any way. I think that even our right-wing crazy people are usually less crazy then the US right.wing crazy people (They are still assholes, but at least sane assholes). For example, i don't think Trump would have a snowballs chance in hell here. I hope i am not proven wrong. Marine Le Pen does 25% any day in France. She's at the very least as nasty as Trump. Plenty of clients for Breitbart France. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On March 09 2017 03:46 Simberto wrote: Wait, there is Breitbart outside of the US? Do people actually read that shit? I was under the assumption that it is a site for crazy right-wing people from the US, that no one except those people takes seriously in any way. I think that even our right-wing crazy people are usually less crazy then the US right.wing crazy people (They are still assholes, but at least sane assholes). For example, i don't think Trump would have a snowballs chance in hell here. I hope i am not proven wrong. Globalization of the filth. In France the far right developed its Internet networks for years, they're already well established. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18486 Posts
On March 09 2017 03:50 Biff The Understudy wrote: Marine Le Pen does 25% any day in France. She's at the very least as nasty as Trump. Plenty of clients for Breitbart France. There's a difference between being nasty and believing Obama is a Muslim agent born in Kenya. While Le Pen is scum, she's at least nuanced in her scumminess. Wilders has started trying his hand and #alternativefacts, though, with his recent statement that Fortuyn was murdered by a muslim fundamentalist. However, he realized the Dutch aren't ready for the Big Lie, and instead of a Trumpian doubling down, he walked it back and said he misspoke. | ||
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Elizar
Germany431 Posts
On March 09 2017 03:46 Simberto wrote: Wait, there is Breitbart outside of the US? Do people actually read that shit? I believe, that there exist enough idiots in Germany who would like to hear obvious lies, too. If written in German there surely would be a market. I see a lot of "not so smart people" every day. E.g. Germans with a muslim migrational background who literally think, that being against foreigners is a good idea and want to vote for AfD. (They actually said that to me, so I did not invent this ... I could not believe the shortsight of some people ...) | ||
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LightSpectra
United States3440 Posts
They deleted the article from their website and gave a mild "apology for the misunderstanding"-type retraction. So yeah, I can very much believe that crap like Breitbart is huge over there. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
I dunno if the Schulz hype can be sustained until the election if yes it might get interesting, otherwise Merkel will edge out another win, although probably with a smaller margin than people would have expected half a year ago. So likely results is another grand coalition, if the SPD can manage it maybe as the leading party, red/red/green might be possible but unlikely if the left can gain more votes, even red/green + fdp (lib dems) might be possible. Conservatives and Greens only if both parties gain more votes. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
Pretty much what would be expected, honestly. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
There's a weekly poll summary updated every Sunday you can track here: http://www.wahlrecht.de/umfragen/ | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
Guesses range from 10% (me) to 20%. I sincerely hope even I overestimate this..."group of people". | ||
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Biff The Understudy
France8215 Posts
On March 09 2017 04:32 Acrofales wrote: There's a difference between being nasty and believing Obama is a Muslim agent born in Kenya. While Le Pen is scum, she's at least nuanced in her scumminess. Wilders has started trying his hand and #alternativefacts, though, with his recent statement that Fortuyn was murdered by a muslim fundamentalist. However, he realized the Dutch aren't ready for the Big Lie, and instead of a Trumpian doubling down, he walked it back and said he misspoke. Well more americans than french or germans are completely ignorant / believe really stupid stuff, but you can count on Breitbart to adapt to their new audience when they reach the european market. There is plenty of far right propaganda to be made without going as far into the full stupid as they do in the US. | ||
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