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On September 17 2015 22:56 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 22:50 Plansix wrote:On September 17 2015 22:44 dismiss wrote:
Stuff like the fighting at the Hungarian border and this passport business really makes you lose sympathy with people in a shitty situation. :/ That is going to happen no matter what. There are always people looking to take advantage of others desperation. And we will have to see how good the forgeries are and how many people are using them. The story doesn’t provide numbers, so it might not be wide spread. The fighting is the fighting. From the BBC reports, it sounded a couple conflicts. But nothing got super violent. Just tear gas. By European standards, tear gas IS super violent. You forgot your USA bias, where it only qualifies as violent if at least 5 people end up dead.
Tear gas is super violent by European standards. Is it true? I don't know a lot about riots but there are more violent and still acceptable means of deailng with them, like rubber bullets, no? Would you call that superturbo violent? Sorry for sounding ironic but I'm really curious if tear gas is really considered extremely violent in Europe or if it's just your opinion.
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On September 17 2015 23:05 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 22:59 dismiss wrote:
It's more about the principle of the thing. You are being compassionate towards other people because of their plight, which really doesn't need to concern you and then elements of said group turn around and spit in the face of those willing to help.
The cynic in me also wants to say that it displays the blantant disregard of the refugees for our rules and regulations. I mean they are rebelling at the Hungarian border because it absolutely NEEDS to be the registration in Germany/Sweden, nothing else will do for them apparently. You should view it for what it was, frustrated people who are exposed to the elements trying to get to safety and their path was blocked. They are frustrated and protested the blocking of the path and there was an outburst. And they have to travel a long distance to a new location that might not let them through either. It would be nice if they didn’t’ have to travel to far and could be process and assigned asylum nations earlier on. But that process isn’t finalized and some nations are dragging their feet. No one wants to be the one to say the refugees can’t come, but everyone wants some other country to take them.
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/chaos-hungary-serbia-border-migrants-clash-police-n428921
It's not, they are safe and they can cross the border if they choose to register in Hungary. This is a bunch of entitled people behaving no better than animals. I mean look at the pictures, it's like a bloody battlefield.
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On September 17 2015 23:09 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 22:56 Acrofales wrote:On September 17 2015 22:50 Plansix wrote:On September 17 2015 22:44 dismiss wrote:
Stuff like the fighting at the Hungarian border and this passport business really makes you lose sympathy with people in a shitty situation. :/ That is going to happen no matter what. There are always people looking to take advantage of others desperation. And we will have to see how good the forgeries are and how many people are using them. The story doesn’t provide numbers, so it might not be wide spread. The fighting is the fighting. From the BBC reports, it sounded a couple conflicts. But nothing got super violent. Just tear gas. By European standards, tear gas IS super violent. You forgot your USA bias, where it only qualifies as violent if at least 5 people end up dead. Tear gas is super violent by European standards. Is it true? I don't know a lot about riots but there are more violent and still acceptable means of deailng with them, like rubber bullets, no? Would you call that superturbo violent? Sorry for sounding ironic but I'm really curious if tear gas is really considered extremely violent in Europe or if it's just your opinion.
Tear gas is weird because the US police use it, but our army is prohibited from using it due to it being a chemical agent. It’s an ongoing issue in the US because the police love it, but its sort of fucked that our army isn’t allowed to use it even during full scale combat. I think they also used fire hoses at the border too, which we don’t use any more.
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On September 17 2015 23:09 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 22:56 Acrofales wrote:On September 17 2015 22:50 Plansix wrote:On September 17 2015 22:44 dismiss wrote:
Stuff like the fighting at the Hungarian border and this passport business really makes you lose sympathy with people in a shitty situation. :/ That is going to happen no matter what. There are always people looking to take advantage of others desperation. And we will have to see how good the forgeries are and how many people are using them. The story doesn’t provide numbers, so it might not be wide spread. The fighting is the fighting. From the BBC reports, it sounded a couple conflicts. But nothing got super violent. Just tear gas. By European standards, tear gas IS super violent. You forgot your USA bias, where it only qualifies as violent if at least 5 people end up dead. Tear gas is super violent by European standards. Is it true? I don't know a lot about riots but there are more violent and still acceptable means of deailng with them, like rubber bullets, no? Would you call that superturbo violent? Sorry for sounding ironic but I'm really curious if tear gas is really considered extremely violent in Europe or if it's just your opinion.
Yeah tear gas and water cannon is about as bad as it gets in Europe. I believe rubber bullets are banned in most states here.
To be honest, I believe people who engage in violent "protest" like that hsould just be deported immediately.
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On September 17 2015 23:14 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 23:09 Sent. wrote:On September 17 2015 22:56 Acrofales wrote:On September 17 2015 22:50 Plansix wrote:On September 17 2015 22:44 dismiss wrote:
Stuff like the fighting at the Hungarian border and this passport business really makes you lose sympathy with people in a shitty situation. :/ That is going to happen no matter what. There are always people looking to take advantage of others desperation. And we will have to see how good the forgeries are and how many people are using them. The story doesn’t provide numbers, so it might not be wide spread. The fighting is the fighting. From the BBC reports, it sounded a couple conflicts. But nothing got super violent. Just tear gas. By European standards, tear gas IS super violent. You forgot your USA bias, where it only qualifies as violent if at least 5 people end up dead. Tear gas is super violent by European standards. Is it true? I don't know a lot about riots but there are more violent and still acceptable means of deailng with them, like rubber bullets, no? Would you call that superturbo violent? Sorry for sounding ironic but I'm really curious if tear gas is really considered extremely violent in Europe or if it's just your opinion. Tear gas is weird because the US police use it, but our army is prohibited from using it due to it being a chemical agent. It’s an ongoing issue in the US because the police love it, but its sort of fucked that our army isn’t allowed to use it even during full scale combat. I think they also used fire hoses at the border too, which we don’t use any more.
Rubber bullets and tasers are forbidden in most countries. Which is a good thing.
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On September 17 2015 23:14 dismiss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 23:09 Sent. wrote:On September 17 2015 22:56 Acrofales wrote:On September 17 2015 22:50 Plansix wrote:On September 17 2015 22:44 dismiss wrote:
Stuff like the fighting at the Hungarian border and this passport business really makes you lose sympathy with people in a shitty situation. :/ That is going to happen no matter what. There are always people looking to take advantage of others desperation. And we will have to see how good the forgeries are and how many people are using them. The story doesn’t provide numbers, so it might not be wide spread. The fighting is the fighting. From the BBC reports, it sounded a couple conflicts. But nothing got super violent. Just tear gas. By European standards, tear gas IS super violent. You forgot your USA bias, where it only qualifies as violent if at least 5 people end up dead. Tear gas is super violent by European standards. Is it true? I don't know a lot about riots but there are more violent and still acceptable means of deailng with them, like rubber bullets, no? Would you call that superturbo violent? Sorry for sounding ironic but I'm really curious if tear gas is really considered extremely violent in Europe or if it's just your opinion. Yeah tear gas and water cannon is about as bad as it gets in Europe. I believe rubber bullets are banned in most states here. To be honest, I believe people who engage in violent "protest" like that hsould just be deported immediately.
Like all protests of this nature, the ones that responded violently are normally the very small minority emboldened by being in a huge crowd.
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On September 17 2015 23:09 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 22:56 Acrofales wrote:On September 17 2015 22:50 Plansix wrote:On September 17 2015 22:44 dismiss wrote:
Stuff like the fighting at the Hungarian border and this passport business really makes you lose sympathy with people in a shitty situation. :/ That is going to happen no matter what. There are always people looking to take advantage of others desperation. And we will have to see how good the forgeries are and how many people are using them. The story doesn’t provide numbers, so it might not be wide spread. The fighting is the fighting. From the BBC reports, it sounded a couple conflicts. But nothing got super violent. Just tear gas. By European standards, tear gas IS super violent. You forgot your USA bias, where it only qualifies as violent if at least 5 people end up dead. Tear gas is super violent by European standards. Is it true? I don't know a lot about riots but there are more violent and still acceptable means of deailng with them, like rubber bullets, no? Would you call that superturbo violent? Sorry for sounding ironic but I'm really curious if tear gas is really considered extremely violent in Europe or if it's just your opinion.
I don't think rubber bullets are more violent than tear gas. Rubber bullets can cause severe injury, but tear gas can cause severe adverse reactions. I would place them about equal. One of the more violent dispersals of a protest that I remember was the one on Plaça Catalunya in Barcelona, where the police used tear gas, rubber bullets and water cannons to chase the protesters away (as well as beating people not fast enough with their batons). The abuse of force by the police was in the papers for weeks. I don't remember whether the chief commissioner resigned over it, but it definitely resulted in some political fallout.
EDIT: as a further point of comparison. When shit was going down in Athens and the protesters were hurling petrol bombs, the police used tear gas to disperse them. I believe that was a justified use of tear gas, but it just goes to show, that yes, the police using tear gas is about as violent as it gets from their side of things.
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i know its not politically correct to ask this, but can someone with any real insight explain to me the number of men among those refugees, because i honestly cant understand it at all... for example, when Hungary closed its border with Serbia yesterday evening, refugees were diverted to Croatia, last night by 21:35h there were 1191 people admitted into the country, 818 male, 189 female, and 184 children... like, how does that even happen?
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On September 17 2015 23:21 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 23:14 dismiss wrote:On September 17 2015 23:09 Sent. wrote:On September 17 2015 22:56 Acrofales wrote:On September 17 2015 22:50 Plansix wrote:On September 17 2015 22:44 dismiss wrote:
Stuff like the fighting at the Hungarian border and this passport business really makes you lose sympathy with people in a shitty situation. :/ That is going to happen no matter what. There are always people looking to take advantage of others desperation. And we will have to see how good the forgeries are and how many people are using them. The story doesn’t provide numbers, so it might not be wide spread. The fighting is the fighting. From the BBC reports, it sounded a couple conflicts. But nothing got super violent. Just tear gas. By European standards, tear gas IS super violent. You forgot your USA bias, where it only qualifies as violent if at least 5 people end up dead. Tear gas is super violent by European standards. Is it true? I don't know a lot about riots but there are more violent and still acceptable means of deailng with them, like rubber bullets, no? Would you call that superturbo violent? Sorry for sounding ironic but I'm really curious if tear gas is really considered extremely violent in Europe or if it's just your opinion. Yeah tear gas and water cannon is about as bad as it gets in Europe. I believe rubber bullets are banned in most states here. To be honest, I believe people who engage in violent "protest" like that hsould just be deported immediately. Like all protests of this nature, the ones that responded violently are normally the very small minority emboldened by being in a huge crowd.
Doesn't amtter to be honest, if that's how they want to start their lives here, I'm far less confused as to why Syria turned to shit.
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On September 17 2015 23:31 snailz wrote:
i know its not politically correct to ask this, but can someone with any real insight explain to me the number of men among those refugees, because i honestly cant understand it at all... for example, when Hungary closed its border with Serbia yesterday evening, refugees were diverted to Croatia, last night by 21:35h there were 1191 people admitted into the country, 818 male, 189 female, and 184 children... like, how does that even happen?
Either A) Economic migrants; or
B) The journey is too hard for the women and children.
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On September 17 2015 23:31 snailz wrote:
i know its not politically correct to ask this, but can someone with any real insight explain to me the number of men among those refugees, because i honestly cant understand it at all... for example, when Hungary closed its border with Serbia yesterday evening, refugees were diverted to Croatia, last night by 21:35h there were 1191 people admitted into the country, 818 male, 189 female, and 184 children... like, how does that even happen?
One of the main reasons simply put:
The human traffickers are not cheap. A couple of thousand dollars per person are needed to send someone over. So families send the ones who are strong enough to make the trip and have the best chance to make money.
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On September 17 2015 23:31 snailz wrote:
i know its not politically correct to ask this, but can someone with any real insight explain to me the number of men among those refugees, because i honestly cant understand it at all... for example, when Hungary closed its border with Serbia yesterday evening, refugees were diverted to Croatia, last night by 21:35h there were 1191 people admitted into the country, 818 male, 189 female, and 184 children... like, how does that even happen?
Families flee from Syria > women and children stay in refugee camp in Lebanon > Syrian man goes on a dangerous journey to try to get an asylum in Germany > he gets it > Germans bring his family safely
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On September 17 2015 23:36 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 17 2015 23:31 snailz wrote:
i know its not politically correct to ask this, but can someone with any real insight explain to me the number of men among those refugees, because i honestly cant understand it at all... for example, when Hungary closed its border with Serbia yesterday evening, refugees were diverted to Croatia, last night by 21:35h there were 1191 people admitted into the country, 818 male, 189 female, and 184 children... like, how does that even happen? One of the main reasons simply put: The human traffickers are not cheap. A couple of thousand dollars per person are needed to send someone over. So families send the ones who are strong enough to make the trip and have the best chance to make money.
Also bringing children on a long trip without shelter is dangerous. If one of them goes missing, there is no place for the family to turn to help finding them. Better to send one person.
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well, that sounds about right.
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I thought Women and Children represented the highest proportion of the migrants, seeing all the pictures of them... But I guess it's only cherry picking from biased news group with political agendas.
In other news, Hungary caught a known terrorist
link
I wonder how many have managed to slip throught though.
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Amother thing I thought off: I wonder how long you could finance a decent living in one of the nearby states for the exorbitant sums the refugees are spending to come to Europe. All the stuff I've heard pins the price for the entire journey at $7.000-10.000.
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On September 18 2015 00:00 dismiss wrote:
Amother thing I thought off: I wonder how long you could finance a decent living in one of the nearby states for the exorbitant sums the refugees are spending to come to Europe. All the stuff I've heard pins the price for the entire journey at $7.000-10.000.
The issue is that you have no ability to work, educate kids, obtain medical coverage if you need it. So once the money runs out, you’re fucked even more so than now. And this war isn’t ending in the near future. But I am sure that was some peoples plan 4 years ago.
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Germany is fast-tracking tough new asylum laws (cutting benefits, enforcing Dublin rules, closing loop holes)
from megiddox
Some of the key changes:
Refugees entering via another EU state under Dublin regulations will not recieve any benefits, just a train ticket and some food.
Denied refugees who cannot be deported by their own fault (because they lost passports etc) are forbidden to work and won't recieve benefits
Maxium time for staying in the first center increased from 3 to 6 months
In these centers they will be provided food etc instead of cash
Refugees cannot move to a town of their own choosing while in a center
Albania, Kosovo and Montenegro to be declared safe countries
Rejected refugees that are about to be deported will recieve less financial support
I guess Germany lost its statut of holyland already. Sweden here they come.
the fact that they enforce Dublin now is hilarious after saying Hungary is a nazi for doing that.
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On September 18 2015 00:04 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 00:00 dismiss wrote:
Amother thing I thought off: I wonder how long you could finance a decent living in one of the nearby states for the exorbitant sums the refugees are spending to come to Europe. All the stuff I've heard pins the price for the entire journey at $7.000-10.000. The issue is that you have no ability to work, educate kids, obtain medical coverage if you need it. So once the money runs out, you’re fucked even more so than now. And this war isn’t ending in the near future. But I am sure that was some peoples plan 4 years ago.
I mean they'd probably get all the help the refugees currently living in those countries are getting, so their expenses shouldn't be that large.
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On September 18 2015 00:11 dismiss wrote:Show nested quote +On September 18 2015 00:04 Plansix wrote:On September 18 2015 00:00 dismiss wrote:
Amother thing I thought off: I wonder how long you could finance a decent living in one of the nearby states for the exorbitant sums the refugees are spending to come to Europe. All the stuff I've heard pins the price for the entire journey at $7.000-10.000. The issue is that you have no ability to work, educate kids, obtain medical coverage if you need it. So once the money runs out, you’re fucked even more so than now. And this war isn’t ending in the near future. But I am sure that was some peoples plan 4 years ago. I mean they'd probably get all the help the refugees currently living in those countries are getting, so their expenses shouldn't be that large.
Yes, but that could end at any time and then they are also fucked. And I have no idea where they are keeping the money, to be honest. I don't think they have access to banks. If they want to return home ever, they will need money to do so. And they might never be able to go back and that aid isn't forever.
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EPT
