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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
Apparently already our two cultures are quite different: I don't want to live in a place where you target people by ethnicity (see Roma census), where you refuse help to people in need and more in danger than you, where religion values are higher than science and vaccines are considered a hoax, etc.etc.
If you argue with crap like this, you shouldn't accuse someone of spinning conspiracy theories considering the "you all want to refuse people in need" argument that you brought.
I don't think anyone has a problem with helping those who're genuinely in danger and need help. Those are not the problem. The problem are those that simply say they are, but actually aren't. It's a strain on their welfare systems that simply isn't invincible.
Again, to be as clear as it gets: i have no problem taking in people who're genuinely in danger and fear for their lifes, because they get raped, murdered etc in their home country. But! If it ever is supposed to work without populists and right wing extremists inevitably rising to power, there needs to be checks and balances. You absolutely can not let everyone and his brother in because they said "refugee" at the border - that is something that has to be checked, otherwise you have a self fulfilling prophecy.
In fact, retarded arguments like that hurt your cause more than it helps: if you keep it going like it currently does, you'll end up with a government in those countries that in the end will entirely crash the system. Starting with Lega Nord etc in Italy, FN in france, AfD in germany - if they rise to power, they'll crash what you cherish so much, and the european union with it. The only way to conquer that is sensible immigration. The "system" currently in place is absolutely not sensible, not even in the slightest.
Extensive background checks for immigrants creates a bureaucratic nightmare for immigrants to navigate, where multiple organizations all need to check the same information and where people who do not speak the language and are not familiar with the legal traditions are expected to jump through all these hoops.
I'm sorry, but "speaking the language" of the country i'm migrating to, at least on a rudimentary level is something that should absolutely be expected. Of course the british "hostile enviroment" is retarded, but if i move to another country, it's my responsibility to speak the language and understand their legal traditions before i move there. What the fuck.
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I disagree, I think part of the problem is also rooted in how people behave towards other, and how people feel justified in un-compassionate behavior.
In my personal view, it's not only a matter of politics and policies, I see a big disconnect in some of SoSexy posts, between what he argues being "good culture" and how he would behave towards others in need.
Expecting a migrant to be speaking the language of the country he's moving to is absurd, especially if you want to redistribute them in all Europe, where each country has a different language. You learn the language while you're there.
p.s. thanks for the "colorful" language, though "retarded" it's not super nice 
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Children also don't know any language and don't have any skills. Given the right environment, migrants have functional language understanding and are capable of participating in the labor market much quicker than children. I don't see what exactly is this vast drain on the welfare system. Over half of the population in the Netherlands doesn't work and we're still vastly wealthy.
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On July 04 2018 19:53 Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2018 14:02 Ghostcom wrote:On July 04 2018 06:41 Dav1oN wrote:I like how people does not get the idea that any border is an artificial thing which derives from our close-to-monkeys ancestors, which prevents people from moving freely  You need a piece of paper with signatures to make a step left/right on the same planet, common planet. In addition - national pride has 0 value, patriotism has 0 value. Racism is a cancer of our society and needs to be cured step by step (with a couple of other issues like religion). Arrogance and ignorance of some users here is just beyond any reasoning. So edgy, be careful you don't cut yourself there... Here is a wild idea: Maybe we understand your argument against borders but disagree with the conclusions you arrive at? Or are you too arrogant and ignorant to even contemplate such a possibility? Also, there is quite a lot of value to e.g. national pride. It is part of the cohesiveness which keeps a civilized society functioning. I'm not afraid to bleed if it's necessary. The point is that we got common ancestors as a species, that's why artificial "national pride" matters not. The same thing with borders. These things made to divide and conquer. We're all on the same chunk of dust floating in open space where nothing lives. It is possible to keep a society functioning with appreciation to culture differences and without borders, but i'm not sure politicians all over the world interested in these sort of solutions. About national pride...Is it worth anything except for boosting a personal ego for no reason? What is this thing so called national pride? How it works and benefits? It doesn't make you better or smarter then anyone esle, it doesn't make you more useful, it just makes you feel proud for no reason One more thing, people tend to operate with a personal cognitive selectivity, meaning they are wrong most of the times (e.g cannibalism tragedy happens very rarely but it doesn't mean the whole nationalities does it), not even realising - the easiest person to fool is yourself. Well that was just my IMO
Out of curiosity: what is your educational background?
EDIT: I realized this might come off as arrogant or as a way to write you off, but I assure you I am truly curious.
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On July 05 2018 01:29 VHbb wrote:I disagree, I think part of the problem is also rooted in how people behave towards other, and how people feel justified in un-compassionate behavior. In my personal view, it's not only a matter of politics and policies, I see a big disconnect in some of SoSexy posts, between what he argues being "good culture" and how he would behave towards others in need. Expecting a migrant to be speaking the language of the country he's moving to is absurd, especially if you want to redistribute them in all Europe, where each country has a different language. You learn the language while you're there. p.s. thanks for the "colorful" language, though "retarded" it's not super nice
It might be absurd to expect of a refugee (who are the ones that might in the future be redistributed), but certainly not of an immigrant (which is a VASTLY different group).
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What's your educatiuonal background Ghostcom? No matter what you may profess yours is, you certainly are arrogant and rude to ask for another's personal information without giving your own, especially when claiming to not be arrogant.
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On July 05 2018 03:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What's your educatiuonal background Ghostcom? No matter what you may profess yours is, you certainly are arrogant and rude to ask for another's personal information without giving your own, especially when claiming to not be arrogant.
This is highly ironic. You criticise him about asking for educational background, while you proceed to do the same. I mean, it's called double standards. Just saying.
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Ghostcom has on top of that mentioned his educational background plenty of times before.
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On July 04 2018 15:17 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2018 11:33 Nyxisto wrote:On July 04 2018 06:04 RvB wrote:On July 04 2018 05:25 Yurie wrote:On July 04 2018 05:00 Toadesstern wrote:On July 03 2018 20:15 Sent. wrote:On July 03 2018 18:09 Toadesstern wrote:On July 03 2018 15:08 LegalLord wrote:
Her tenure has shown that she’s nothing if not opportunistic. From “open the floodgates” to this, hardly a matter at all.
The opposition doesn’t really seem strong or united enough to outright defeat her, though. I expect more of the same for quite a while longer. yeah agree. I mean opportunistic is how you call it, her supporters would say she's willing to jump over her own shadow and do what her voters (or germans in generell) want instead of hardlining something she feels like she needs to do. Same with nuclear a couple years ago. Merkel was a really big supporter of nuclear energy. Then fukushima happened and people in Germany felt really shitty about nuclear power. She didn't get into office with this image of a "green" chancelor, she got it during her years in office because she changed her positions into that direction after realizing that it's a good wagon to be on. I just don't see an alternative on the horizon. As much as Danglars probably wants it the AfD is polling in the 15% range and not in the 50% they need to govern. The CDU is still heads ahead of everyone else, Seehofer has lost way more in this than Merkel did (even though it hurt both), and I don't see anyone rising up to the task either. Neither someone new in the CDU nor someone elsewhere (I'm looking at you SPD). The SPD also seems to have it hard in this political climate just for the sake of being politically to the left of the CDU. This whole idea that Merkel will be dethroned and the right will rise (if we're believing our ambassador to the US in germany) just completly falls apart the moment you realize that all the alternatives are politically to the left of her and that we tend to need coalitions for governments over here. Even if the AfD somehow gets tons of voters, they'll never get 50+ % in a 6 party stystem which means they'd have to team up with someone and we're back at step1. I feel the only realistic way for this to change is a shift to left. And I don't see that happen in the current political climate. Why is it unrealistic to assume Merkel may step down before the next election to let another (possibly more conservative) CDU politician take her place? That's obviously assuming Germans with right-wing views would want that and I'm not saying they certainly will, I'm just questioning the claim that there is no alternative other than SPD-lead coalition. Merkel doesn't look like someone who would step down and she has this ability to come out of things looking better even if there should be no way for her. I don't think CDU voters impression of her went down during this whole thing at all. If anything she's probably more popular among her voters. The CDU probably lost voters and she lost among non-CDU voters but I don't think it's an issue for her within the party unless someone else steps up and pushes her out. Exclusive: China presses Europe for anti-U.S. alliance on trade
BRUSSELS/BERLIN (Reuters) - China is putting pressure on the European Union to issue a strong joint statement against President Donald Trump’s trade policies at a summit later this month but is facing resistance, European officials said.
In meetings in Brussels, Berlin and Beijing, senior Chinese officials, including Vice Premier Liu He and the Chinese government’s top diplomat, State Councillor Wang Yi, have proposed an alliance between the two economic powers and offered to open more of the Chinese market in a gesture of goodwill.
One proposal has been for China and the European Union to launch joint action against the United States at the World Trade Organisation.
But the European Union, the world’s largest trading bloc, has rejected the idea of allying with Beijing against Washington, five EU officials and diplomats told Reuters, ahead of a Sino-European summit in Beijing on July 16-17.
[...] sad to see them reject this kind of idea. They're still afraid that if they lash out too much at Trump that that will only make things worse. Still hoping they can get on his good side when it's clear he wants to EU to fall apart so that the US has more influence over single, seperate countries. China at least doesn't want us gone~ The problem is that a lot of the practices that Trump dislike about China are disliked in the EU as well. So if we join them in a statement we weaken the US claim against China in the WTO when we might be wanting to lift the same issues. That the US is doing things badly is true, does not mean that we should by default like how China is doing things. Even if it is slightly better currently. Rejecting China in this case is a good move. The US even with trump is more open to trade and FDI than China. As long as China doesn't materially change its protectionism there's really little reason to cooperate with them. As Friedman was fond of pointing out, Chinese protectionism hurts China, nobody else. If China wants to subsidize its companies and sell everyone else cheap stuff while investing their capital abroad, that's actually a really good deal for us. That's not quite what he said, he said both sides benefit from free trade. Or as he famously said about protectionism, which is a paraphrase of the American socialist Henry George, "In times of peace we do to ourselves what we do to our enemies in times of war", so closing borders for trade hurts both sides. Subsidies make it hard for non-Chinese competitors to succeed, but I believe that is the smallest problem. China has high tariffs in many areas and a lot of rules that make it hard for foreign companies to produce or sell in China. Often they are forced to partner up with Chinese companies and then those "partners" steal the know-how and technologies. So in conclusion, China is all but a free trade partner. + Show Spoiler +Although if you take a leftliberterian stance like Henry George you could argue that the technological theft in China is mutually benefitial, as it reduces the barriers that property/patent rights form and in the end leads to Cheap Chinese products that everybody benefits from. And that in particular the West should rather lower their patent/property regulations, so that know-how and resources can circulate more freely.
But again, just like in the question of borders, for that you need to take a materialist, objective stance to begin with, that such barriers, regulations and borders are human made "social rights" and not some "natural rights", a stance that the conservatives, nationalists and liberals simply cannot accept, as it undermines the baseline of their ideologies.
China putting up barriers of trade in their own country is really only to the detriment of China. It's just nationalism, they don't actually gain anything from keeping foreign investors out other than controlling who wins and loses in their market often for paranoid security reasons. That's bad for the Chinese people and reduces their opportunities, but it really isn't bad for us. If China wants to pump money into their dirty industries and sell us finished goods, good for us.
the technology theft argument is really often overblown too. In reality, it's really difficult to copy complex manufacturing processes. Chinese companies have often tried to copy German small and medium-sized business, but it never works because there is a lot of tacit knowledge in those companies built up over decades. They rely on well-trained workforces that have worked together for a long time and differ from business to business, so you really can't simply copy it and expect it to work. So there's a natural protection in the form of expertise that protects businesses that genuinely add value. If a Chinese company can just steal your product and produce it cheaper without even knowing what they're doing.. well then it's questionable how much value was added in the first place.
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On July 05 2018 03:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What's your educatiuonal background Ghostcom? No matter what you may profess yours is, you certainly are arrogant and rude to ask for another's personal information without giving your own, especially when claiming to not be arrogant.
I have multiple times stated that I am a medical doctor with a PhD (both in this thread and in others). I think most people who frequents this thread are aware, but in either case you (or he) needed only to ask if any doubt persisted. Your petty insults are frankly laughable and I do believe you owe me an apology.
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On July 05 2018 03:22 sc-darkness wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2018 03:14 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
What's your educatiuonal background Ghostcom? No matter what you may profess yours is, you certainly are arrogant and rude to ask for another's personal information without giving your own, especially when claiming to not be arrogant. This is highly ironic. You criticise him about asking for educational background, while you proceed to do the same. I mean, it's called double standards. Just saying.
I'm not asking for his educational background, am I criticizing his hypocrisy. You don't get to say "I" am not arrogant whilst acting in an arrogant manner. And you certainly are Ghostcom, for giving yourself more self-importance to anyone's life that anyone would care to remember what your educational background is, other than to mention it has been mentioned before. No one remembers mine I am sure.
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I remember the education of most regular posters here and in the US politics thread. As do most others of them as evidenced multiple times. We even have an example of someone remembering mine just a few posts up. Further, as mentioned above: you really could just have asked nicely and I would gladly have informed you. Instead you chose to go with the petty insults. I maintain my position that you owe me an apology and if none is forthcoming I won't bother responding again.
EDIT: you have been remarkably aggressive and confrontational all things considered. I don't know if you are having a bad day or if it is me you have a more general issue with. Regardless I frankly think this derailment has gone on long enough.
I maintain that I am still interested in the educational background of Dav1on purely out of interest to know who I am arguing with. Outside of that, I would encourage everyone else to simply move on with the thread.
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Gosh, I only worked 10,5 hours today and I'm already sending E-Mails to my private account with work that I can do on Sunday to make my deadlines. Can't wait for 12-hour shifts, it's going to be so much better!
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 05 2018 02:02 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On July 04 2018 19:53 Dav1oN wrote:On July 04 2018 14:02 Ghostcom wrote:On July 04 2018 06:41 Dav1oN wrote:I like how people does not get the idea that any border is an artificial thing which derives from our close-to-monkeys ancestors, which prevents people from moving freely You need a piece of paper with signatures to make a step left/right on the same planet, common planet. In addition - national pride has 0 value, patriotism has 0 value. Racism is a cancer of our society and needs to be cured step by step (with a couple of other issues like religion). Arrogance and ignorance of some users here is just beyond any reasoning. So edgy, be careful you don't cut yourself there... Here is a wild idea: Maybe we understand your argument against borders but disagree with the conclusions you arrive at? Or are you too arrogant and ignorant to even contemplate such a possibility? Also, there is quite a lot of value to e.g. national pride. It is part of the cohesiveness which keeps a civilized society functioning. I'm not afraid to bleed if it's necessary. The point is that we got common ancestors as a species, that's why artificial "national pride" matters not. The same thing with borders. These things made to divide and conquer. We're all on the same chunk of dust floating in open space where nothing lives. It is possible to keep a society functioning with appreciation to culture differences and without borders, but i'm not sure politicians all over the world interested in these sort of solutions. About national pride...Is it worth anything except for boosting a personal ego for no reason? What is this thing so called national pride? How it works and benefits? It doesn't make you better or smarter then anyone esle, it doesn't make you more useful, it just makes you feel proud for no reason One more thing, people tend to operate with a personal cognitive selectivity, meaning they are wrong most of the times (e.g cannibalism tragedy happens very rarely but it doesn't mean the whole nationalities does it), not even realising - the easiest person to fool is yourself. Well that was just my IMO Out of curiosity: what is your educational background? EDIT: I realized this might come off as arrogant or as a way to write you off, but I assure you I am truly curious.
Nah, it's okay to ask, I don't mind IT background, programmer-analyst.
At some point I understand that my personal point of view on a modern world/social structure might look a bit twisted in others eyes...but I dream and "belive" in a better world to be made by humans, for humans and nature around us on a single and small blue planet which we're calling home. It would take some time (possibly few centuries) to achieve with lot's of difficulties, yet it looks possible to me to get to the good results.
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On July 05 2018 08:33 Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2018 02:02 Ghostcom wrote:On July 04 2018 19:53 Dav1oN wrote:On July 04 2018 14:02 Ghostcom wrote:On July 04 2018 06:41 Dav1oN wrote:I like how people does not get the idea that any border is an artificial thing which derives from our close-to-monkeys ancestors, which prevents people from moving freely You need a piece of paper with signatures to make a step left/right on the same planet, common planet. In addition - national pride has 0 value, patriotism has 0 value. Racism is a cancer of our society and needs to be cured step by step (with a couple of other issues like religion). Arrogance and ignorance of some users here is just beyond any reasoning. So edgy, be careful you don't cut yourself there... Here is a wild idea: Maybe we understand your argument against borders but disagree with the conclusions you arrive at? Or are you too arrogant and ignorant to even contemplate such a possibility? Also, there is quite a lot of value to e.g. national pride. It is part of the cohesiveness which keeps a civilized society functioning. I'm not afraid to bleed if it's necessary. The point is that we got common ancestors as a species, that's why artificial "national pride" matters not. The same thing with borders. These things made to divide and conquer. We're all on the same chunk of dust floating in open space where nothing lives. It is possible to keep a society functioning with appreciation to culture differences and without borders, but i'm not sure politicians all over the world interested in these sort of solutions. About national pride...Is it worth anything except for boosting a personal ego for no reason? What is this thing so called national pride? How it works and benefits? It doesn't make you better or smarter then anyone esle, it doesn't make you more useful, it just makes you feel proud for no reason One more thing, people tend to operate with a personal cognitive selectivity, meaning they are wrong most of the times (e.g cannibalism tragedy happens very rarely but it doesn't mean the whole nationalities does it), not even realising - the easiest person to fool is yourself. Well that was just my IMO Out of curiosity: what is your educational background? EDIT: I realized this might come off as arrogant or as a way to write you off, but I assure you I am truly curious. Nah, it's okay to ask, I don't mind IT background, programmer-analyst. At some point I understand that my personal point of view on a modern world/social structure might look a bit twisted in others eyes...but I dream and "belive" in a better world to be made by humans, for humans and nature around us on a single and small blue planet which we're calling home. It would take some time (possibly few centuries) to achieve with lot's of difficulties, yet it looks possible to me to get to the good results.
Don't worry. Your vision is surely exotic, but remember this is the forum where one guy predicted a 'global thermo-nuclear war' 6 months from Trump's election.
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Thats not even close to being craziest opinion/prediction on this forum. A lot of people were worried about how Trump administration will work. Some of the worries were legitimate some not. But when it comes to strange views, theres at least one super crazy opinion on almost every page of US politics megathread.
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On July 05 2018 08:33 Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2018 02:02 Ghostcom wrote:On July 04 2018 19:53 Dav1oN wrote:On July 04 2018 14:02 Ghostcom wrote:On July 04 2018 06:41 Dav1oN wrote:I like how people does not get the idea that any border is an artificial thing which derives from our close-to-monkeys ancestors, which prevents people from moving freely You need a piece of paper with signatures to make a step left/right on the same planet, common planet. In addition - national pride has 0 value, patriotism has 0 value. Racism is a cancer of our society and needs to be cured step by step (with a couple of other issues like religion). Arrogance and ignorance of some users here is just beyond any reasoning. So edgy, be careful you don't cut yourself there... Here is a wild idea: Maybe we understand your argument against borders but disagree with the conclusions you arrive at? Or are you too arrogant and ignorant to even contemplate such a possibility? Also, there is quite a lot of value to e.g. national pride. It is part of the cohesiveness which keeps a civilized society functioning. I'm not afraid to bleed if it's necessary. The point is that we got common ancestors as a species, that's why artificial "national pride" matters not. The same thing with borders. These things made to divide and conquer. We're all on the same chunk of dust floating in open space where nothing lives. It is possible to keep a society functioning with appreciation to culture differences and without borders, but i'm not sure politicians all over the world interested in these sort of solutions. About national pride...Is it worth anything except for boosting a personal ego for no reason? What is this thing so called national pride? How it works and benefits? It doesn't make you better or smarter then anyone esle, it doesn't make you more useful, it just makes you feel proud for no reason One more thing, people tend to operate with a personal cognitive selectivity, meaning they are wrong most of the times (e.g cannibalism tragedy happens very rarely but it doesn't mean the whole nationalities does it), not even realising - the easiest person to fool is yourself. Well that was just my IMO Out of curiosity: what is your educational background? EDIT: I realized this might come off as arrogant or as a way to write you off, but I assure you I am truly curious. Nah, it's okay to ask, I don't mind IT background, programmer-analyst. At some point I understand that my personal point of view on a modern world/social structure might look a bit twisted in others eyes...but I dream and "belive" in a better world to be made by humans, for humans and nature around us on a single and small blue planet which we're calling home. It would take some time (possibly few centuries) to achieve with lot's of difficulties, yet it looks possible to me to get to the good results.
Thank you
I agree with your overall sentiment - and it is nice to dream. Excluding any external factors I have a hard time imagining that the timeline will be as short as you hope for, but well - who really knows?
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I support the model used by... Sweden, I think, or Denmark, where the government expects immigrants to learn the language to a speaking level inside a year (I think it's a year) or they have to go back out.
One thing that's undoubtedly been a problem is integration, and I can't think of any way it can be handled without enforcing the need for learning the local language. One problem we definitely had in Britain a while back was a bunch of people coming in from Muslim countries, not learning the language, but coming in enough numbers that they formed their own community section where they could support themselves, and then pressuring the local government to allow them to install Sharia law in that community. It wasn't sinister, just trying to live their lives the way they're used to.
Problem is, that's not how immigration works. You want to go to a new country, cool. But you're living life the way it's lived there. That's the point.
It's probably very expensive, but I can't imagine it's much more expensive to pay for all these potential immigrants to get mandatory language classes than it is to pay for a half dozen interlinked agencies designed to make the immigration process as painful as possible, and on the other end let them out with no way to communicate with the rest of Britain. Even good, honest, hard working (ex) foreigners are going to have trouble integrating at that point.
Since educational background is kicking about I'll toss mine out: BA Honors 2:1, and I was one measley point away from a 1st goddammit RAAAAAAARGH. Had the option to do a masters but never the funds for it to be practical. Always wished I could have gone back and done that, but once the student loan system changed it became an impossibility.
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On July 05 2018 08:33 Dav1oN wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2018 02:02 Ghostcom wrote:On July 04 2018 19:53 Dav1oN wrote:On July 04 2018 14:02 Ghostcom wrote:On July 04 2018 06:41 Dav1oN wrote:I like how people does not get the idea that any border is an artificial thing which derives from our close-to-monkeys ancestors, which prevents people from moving freely You need a piece of paper with signatures to make a step left/right on the same planet, common planet. In addition - national pride has 0 value, patriotism has 0 value. Racism is a cancer of our society and needs to be cured step by step (with a couple of other issues like religion). Arrogance and ignorance of some users here is just beyond any reasoning. So edgy, be careful you don't cut yourself there... Here is a wild idea: Maybe we understand your argument against borders but disagree with the conclusions you arrive at? Or are you too arrogant and ignorant to even contemplate such a possibility? Also, there is quite a lot of value to e.g. national pride. It is part of the cohesiveness which keeps a civilized society functioning. I'm not afraid to bleed if it's necessary. The point is that we got common ancestors as a species, that's why artificial "national pride" matters not. The same thing with borders. These things made to divide and conquer. We're all on the same chunk of dust floating in open space where nothing lives. It is possible to keep a society functioning with appreciation to culture differences and without borders, but i'm not sure politicians all over the world interested in these sort of solutions. About national pride...Is it worth anything except for boosting a personal ego for no reason? What is this thing so called national pride? How it works and benefits? It doesn't make you better or smarter then anyone esle, it doesn't make you more useful, it just makes you feel proud for no reason One more thing, people tend to operate with a personal cognitive selectivity, meaning they are wrong most of the times (e.g cannibalism tragedy happens very rarely but it doesn't mean the whole nationalities does it), not even realising - the easiest person to fool is yourself. Well that was just my IMO Out of curiosity: what is your educational background? EDIT: I realized this might come off as arrogant or as a way to write you off, but I assure you I am truly curious. Nah, it's okay to ask, I don't mind IT background, programmer-analyst. At some point I understand that my personal point of view on a modern world/social structure might look a bit twisted in others eyes...but I dream and "belive" in a better world to be made by humans, for humans and nature around us on a single and small blue planet which we're calling home. It would take some time (possibly few centuries) to achieve with lot's of difficulties, yet it looks possible to me to get to the good results.
I am cynical believer in chaos theory being the right one and so I dont see o society. I see milions individuals around and "system" of the mutual dependencies that is trying to restrict their more destructive urges. Thats the self-improving machine with milions spanners in the work. It's uncontrolable mess that goes battshit insane every time we think everything will be OK. I remmember political optimism of the 90's and how it went out of the window with one single attack of 2001 (it should gone earier with Bosnia, Iraque and Ruanda, but few were giving a shit back than).
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On July 05 2018 18:20 hitthat wrote:Show nested quote +On July 05 2018 08:33 Dav1oN wrote:On July 05 2018 02:02 Ghostcom wrote:On July 04 2018 19:53 Dav1oN wrote:On July 04 2018 14:02 Ghostcom wrote:On July 04 2018 06:41 Dav1oN wrote:I like how people does not get the idea that any border is an artificial thing which derives from our close-to-monkeys ancestors, which prevents people from moving freely You need a piece of paper with signatures to make a step left/right on the same planet, common planet. In addition - national pride has 0 value, patriotism has 0 value. Racism is a cancer of our society and needs to be cured step by step (with a couple of other issues like religion). Arrogance and ignorance of some users here is just beyond any reasoning. So edgy, be careful you don't cut yourself there... Here is a wild idea: Maybe we understand your argument against borders but disagree with the conclusions you arrive at? Or are you too arrogant and ignorant to even contemplate such a possibility? Also, there is quite a lot of value to e.g. national pride. It is part of the cohesiveness which keeps a civilized society functioning. I'm not afraid to bleed if it's necessary. The point is that we got common ancestors as a species, that's why artificial "national pride" matters not. The same thing with borders. These things made to divide and conquer. We're all on the same chunk of dust floating in open space where nothing lives. It is possible to keep a society functioning with appreciation to culture differences and without borders, but i'm not sure politicians all over the world interested in these sort of solutions. About national pride...Is it worth anything except for boosting a personal ego for no reason? What is this thing so called national pride? How it works and benefits? It doesn't make you better or smarter then anyone esle, it doesn't make you more useful, it just makes you feel proud for no reason One more thing, people tend to operate with a personal cognitive selectivity, meaning they are wrong most of the times (e.g cannibalism tragedy happens very rarely but it doesn't mean the whole nationalities does it), not even realising - the easiest person to fool is yourself. Well that was just my IMO Out of curiosity: what is your educational background? EDIT: I realized this might come off as arrogant or as a way to write you off, but I assure you I am truly curious. Nah, it's okay to ask, I don't mind IT background, programmer-analyst. At some point I understand that my personal point of view on a modern world/social structure might look a bit twisted in others eyes...but I dream and "belive" in a better world to be made by humans, for humans and nature around us on a single and small blue planet which we're calling home. It would take some time (possibly few centuries) to achieve with lot's of difficulties, yet it looks possible to me to get to the good results. I am cynical believer in chaos theory being the right one and so I dont see o society. I see milions individuals around and "system" of the mutual dependencies that is trying to restrict their more destructive urges. Thats the self-improving machine with milions spanners in the work. It's uncontrolable mess that goes battshit insane every time we think everything will be OK. I remmember political optimism of the 90's and how it went out of the window with one single attack of 2001 (it should gone earier with Bosnia, Iraque and Ruanda, but few were giving a shit back than).
I've always been a sociological functionalist. I think society makes a lot more sense if you look at things in terms of the roles they play in society at large, and society itself as pushing people into slots.
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|
|
EPT
