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On December 02 2006 16:53 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
This is a sick motherfucking series. The depth is insane. Not only in character but the plot is absolutely amazing. If you read some of the theories there are about these books you'll be amazed even more.
QFT. They're so good (imo) one could write a novel on how amazing they are & why Martin has proven he is a master of his craft.
And I didn't find A Feast for Crows boring at all.
I stayed up all night and read each one within a week because they were that good.
And no, there aren't too many characters. It's just pure bad ass.
You raped her, you murdered her, you killed her children!
Edit: And for gods sake. It's a song of ice and fire.
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by the way the board game for a game of thrones is the best board game ever
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On December 02 2006 17:01 DarK]N[exuS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2006 15:04 VerticalHorizon wrote:
Wow, I love how there are actually people who are complaining about a series that actually has some depth, realism, and focus on the IMPORTANT aspects of a story... juuuust because it isn't your standarf hack-and-slash D&D adventure novel with clearcut good guys and bad guys and a princess at the end
Despite youre incredibly long tirade, nobody actually said this at all. What a waste of effort, lol. Don't bring that "you can't appreciate" bullshit into this, because that's just pretentious. Maybe people other than yourself just don't like the writing style?
Silvanel wrote:
Martin's books are very nicely written, reading them is a real pleasure, story is also nice and interesting. Nothing realy new , but a very good series nontheless.
On the other hand in late books Martins seems to catch the same disease that Jordan has (Talking about "Wheel of Time". To many characters , to many events, to many plots. Sure it is nice that book isn't to simple, but when on 400 pages goes 7 days from the life of characters there is someting wrong.Martin made to many key characters (persons from which point of view the narration is situated), so informing reader what is going in life of every key character takes to many space in book therefore slowing action. Also during the time between publishing a new book, you just forget parts of last making it difficult to follow without reading the previous tome again.
Ps. I also love Dragonlance but only the main series.
PS.2 I just noticed that you have written "SON of fire and ice" , didnt read it properly in first time, i assumed you want opinion on R.R. Martins "Song of Fire and Ice", if you wanted to talk about someting else just ignore me.
You're wrong. Sorry.
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Braavos36402 Posts
On December 02 2006 17:01 DarK]N[exuS wrote:Show nested quote +
dude its a forum, if you can't handle reading a page of text why are you even registered
Because if you read the first line in that page of text you realize the poster is actually getting all defensive over something that never happened. Subsequently you realize that everything he's written would be pointless to read because it's completely irrelevant, as it's just going to be refuting something he THINKS someone said, when in actuality nobody said anything of the sort. Additionally there's quite a bit of "I'm better than you because I "appreciate" this writing, and you don't" Also everyone should keep their fucking dicks in their pants. This isn't an ego contest, and just because you "appreciate the depth" of some author doesn't mean that other authors are hacks, or that your tastes are somehow "better" than other people's.
uh, his post was pretty contributive in that he listed a lot of things regarding how Martin's writing and the books stand out from traditional fantasy. the topic author wanted reasons why people liked the books and he provided it.
yes it was in a combative tone responding to something you don't think anyone has said, but its a commonly held opinion and i think you overreacted to his post. he's passionate about the books and i don't see whats wrong with that, no need to go crazy picking him apart.
edit: and apparently someone did say it? no idea.
On December 02 2006 17:33 DarK]N[exuS wrote:
That's perfectly fine. I have no problem with people liking different things. What I had a problem with (as evidenced earlier) is when people have different tastes, and one seems to think that theirs is somehow better and proceeds to put down the other person.
this is ironic given that from your posting history you write lots of things obnoxiously or in a condescending tone and put down people. i don't know if thats just how you speak to people normally, just look at the way you responded to him and jacked this topic.
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Also, yes, I will admit my post was combative. But I'm not the falsely modest-type who will pretend his opinions are no more valid than everyone else's, because I put a lot of thought and consideration into my opinions. Thus, it's my right to consider them more valid than someone else's, if it is my belief that they are less knowledgeable or less thoughtful. I can acknowledge DIFFERING opinions, as long as they are as well-thought out and supported, but if it's just an inferior opinion, then it just is.
Like I said, I am disputing those who are bashing Martin's writing just because they have no concept of Epic Fantasy. In doing this, I realize I maybe stepping on other people's toes and putting down the tastes of others. But guess what? I make no personal attacks, they are all critiques based on the style and content of the WRITING of the various authors involved. If you noticed, I suggested that readers seek other writers or other genres if they cannot handle Martin's style.
Stop looking for a fight just because you want to be contrary and somehow prove you're superior just because you can argue.
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On December 02 2006 18:12 ToT)Testie( wrote:
And I didn't find A Feast for Crows boring at all.
I stayed up all night and read each one within a week because they were that good.
It's extra delicious because you know how even more INSANE ADwD is going to be, now that Martin's gotten some of the less dynamic characters out of the way. Daenerys, Jon Snow, Tyrion.... all those viewpoints coming soon!!!!
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Braavos36402 Posts
on reread the dorne chapters in aFFC are just so beautifully written, hes so good at making characters, especially new ones, have dynamic personalities and react and grow realistically. it's amazing and i think his characterizations are what separate his books from the others i read.
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On December 02 2006 19:07 Hot_Bid wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2006 17:01 DarK]N[exuS wrote:
dude its a forum, if you can't handle reading a page of text why are you even registered
Because if you read the first line in that page of text you realize the poster is actually getting all defensive over something that never happened. Subsequently you realize that everything he's written would be pointless to read because it's completely irrelevant, as it's just going to be refuting something he THINKS someone said, when in actuality nobody said anything of the sort. Additionally there's quite a bit of "I'm better than you because I "appreciate" this writing, and you don't" Also everyone should keep their fucking dicks in their pants. This isn't an ego contest, and just because you "appreciate the depth" of some author doesn't mean that other authors are hacks, or that your tastes are somehow "better" than other people's. uh, his post was pretty contributive in that he listed a lot of things regarding how Martin's writing and the books stand out from traditional fantasy. the topic author wanted reasons why people liked the books and he provided it. yes it was in a combative tone responding to something you don't think anyone has said, but its a commonly held opinion and i think you overreacted to his post. he's passionate about the books and i don't see whats wrong with that, no need to go crazy picking him apart. edit: and apparently someone did say it? no idea. Show nested quote +On December 02 2006 17:33 DarK]N[exuS wrote:
That's perfectly fine. I have no problem with people liking different things. What I had a problem with (as evidenced earlier) is when people have different tastes, and one seems to think that theirs is somehow better and proceeds to put down the other person. this is ironic given that from your posting history you write lots of things obnoxiously or in a condescending tone and put down people. i don't know if thats just how you speak to people normally, just look at the way you responded to him and jacked this topic.
Since you're such a powerful admin, check my post history. You'll notice nothing of the sort following my banning. Additionally, does my own previous behavior invalidate my opinion?
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To verticalhorizon: you'll notice what I quoted was this:
"Wow, I love how there are actually people who are complaining about a series that actually has some depth, realism, and focus on the IMPORTANT aspects of a story... juuuust because it isn't your standarf hack-and-slash D&D adventure novel with clearcut good guys and bad guys and a princess at the end."
Once again, the quote you've shown says nothing of this sort. This was what you projected as what others had said when they had simply said they did not enjoy following so many different plot lines.
On December 02 2006 19:21 VerticalHorizon wrote:
Also, yes, I will admit my post was combative. But I'm not the falsely modest-type who will pretend his opinions are no more valid than everyone else's, because I put a lot of thought and consideration into my opinions. Thus, it's my right to consider them more valid than someone else's, if it is my belief that they are less knowledgeable or less thoughtful. I can acknowledge DIFFERING opinions, as long as they are as well-thought out and supported, but if it's just an inferior opinion, then it just is.
It's definitely for sure you're not the type to be modest about your opinions. Explain to me again how putting a lot of thought into your opinions means that your opinion is automatically more valid and superior to a less-thought out opinion? So what if a hitman decides, through lengthy thought, that murder for hire is justified? Then you ask some random guy on the street if he thinks it's right. He says no. OH, HE PUT LESS THOUGHT INTO IT. Christ, seriously, that's just fucking fascist. Your opinions are no more valid than mine, and I don't really like Martin. Because my reason is only one sentence: overdoing the plot, my opinion is less valid? Adding a ton of repetitive fluff about how it's epic somehow makes what you've said more meaningful? Lack of quantity does not equal lack of quality.
Well I was going to write a bit about why I think that it's disgusting for you to say that stuff you did, but I am kind of sick of arguing atm and I need to study some chemistry. Your definition of an "inferior" opinion IS a differing opinion, as shown by your description as those who can't "handle" Martin's incredible intellect having to settle for the "lesser" writings of other authors. Again, lack of complexity does not equal lack of quality, which I hoped to show with my ironically "circumlocutious" previous post. However, evidently nobody understood that.
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Braavos36402 Posts
On December 02 2006 20:39 DarK]N[exuS wrote:Show nested quote +On December 02 2006 19:07 Hot_Bid wrote:On December 02 2006 17:01 DarK]N[exuS wrote:
dude its a forum, if you can't handle reading a page of text why are you even registered
Because if you read the first line in that page of text you realize the poster is actually getting all defensive over something that never happened. Subsequently you realize that everything he's written would be pointless to read because it's completely irrelevant, as it's just going to be refuting something he THINKS someone said, when in actuality nobody said anything of the sort. Additionally there's quite a bit of "I'm better than you because I "appreciate" this writing, and you don't" Also everyone should keep their fucking dicks in their pants. This isn't an ego contest, and just because you "appreciate the depth" of some author doesn't mean that other authors are hacks, or that your tastes are somehow "better" than other people's. uh, his post was pretty contributive in that he listed a lot of things regarding how Martin's writing and the books stand out from traditional fantasy. the topic author wanted reasons why people liked the books and he provided it. yes it was in a combative tone responding to something you don't think anyone has said, but its a commonly held opinion and i think you overreacted to his post. he's passionate about the books and i don't see whats wrong with that, no need to go crazy picking him apart. edit: and apparently someone did say it? no idea. On December 02 2006 17:33 DarK]N[exuS wrote:
That's perfectly fine. I have no problem with people liking different things. What I had a problem with (as evidenced earlier) is when people have different tastes, and one seems to think that theirs is somehow better and proceeds to put down the other person. this is ironic given that from your posting history you write lots of things obnoxiously or in a condescending tone and put down people. i don't know if thats just how you speak to people normally, just look at the way you responded to him and jacked this topic. Since you're such a powerful admin, check my post history. You'll notice nothing of the sort following my banning. Additionally, regardless of my own behavior, does that mean my opinion is wrong? --------------------------------- To verticalhorizon: you'll notice what I quoted was this: "Wow, I love how there are actually people who are complaining about a series that actually has some depth, realism, and focus on the IMPORTANT aspects of a story... juuuust because it isn't your standarf hack-and-slash D&D adventure novel with clearcut good guys and bad guys and a princess at the end." Once again, the quote you've shown says nothing of this sort. This was what you projected onto others. So.....wrong.
im not an admin. blue means newsposter and red means moderator. i agree you may have gotten better since the ban but your attack on the guy who is just passionate about something is a little much don't you think.
also, you say "regardless of my own behavior" but even though you agree with verticalhorizon on the books, you argued with him on the tone and way he posted, just as i am doing the same with you.
lastly, i said, while his post may seem combative, it does deserve a place in this thread and contributed by stating things that separate martin's work from others. you implied his post was completely worthless, which it is obviously not.
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United States5262 Posts
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Braavos36402 Posts
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United States5262 Posts
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im not an admin. blue means newsposter and red means moderator. i agree you may have gotten better since the ban but your attack on the guy who is just passionate about something is a little much don't you think.
also, you say "regardless of my own behavior" but even though you agree with verticalhorizon on the books, you argued with him on the tone and way he posted, just as i am doing the same with you.
lastly, i said, while his post may seem combative, it does deserve a place in this thread and contributed by stating things that separate martin's work from others. you implied his post was completely worthless, which it is obviously not.
You're right, it's not worthless. However, just as I did not "imply" it was worthless - I outright said it - he did not "seem combative." It was combative. However, I should not have called it irrelevant. It annoyed me how he basically made wide blanket assumptive statements regarding anyone who doesn't "appreciate" Martin and therefore only has the limited intellect to enjoy "slasher DnD novels". Then he says because his opinion is longer than mine, it's better. How is it that because I do not like Martin as much as he does I have "no concept of epic fantasy" and I cannot "handle" Martin's writing? I simply responded badly to his arrogant tone.
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Braavos36402 Posts
don't you think you're being a little oversensitive about someone else's opinion here...
hes not outright attacking you, hell you even read all the asoiaf books and enjoyed them
its kind of pointless arguing
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Easily the best book series I've ever read. The depth is amazing, and all the prophecies and sub-plots goin around the place is hectic! Tyrion and Jaime are easily two of the best fully realised characters I've ever read.
I can't wait for a real re-telling of what actually happened at the Tower of Joy. Ned Stark, Lord protector of Winterfell, and 4 or 5 his companions rushing to the Tower to save his sister, while 3 knights of the Kingsguard are protecting the tower. Just imagining the scene, with Oswell Whent sharpening his sword waiting and Ser Arthur Dayne with his greatsword Dawn telling them to bring it on. O M G!
I must have read the whole series in 2 weeks. It was THAT good.
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dark nexus,
shut the fuck up
i'm pissed that i tried (and failed) to read that incomprehensible crap that you wrote. i put in a lot of effort to read this forum when stoned, and i sure don't want to waste it on you.
i will not pretend to enjoy this fantasy book because:
1. i have not yet read it
2. i only posted in this thread to flame (just like dark][nexus).
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FuDDx
United States5017 Posts
ove read them 4 times now and i cant get enough.............................
waiting for the next mo fokkin book to come out damnit i hate waiting for good things sometimes.
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On December 02 2006 18:51 Liquid`Nazgul wrote:
by the way the board game for a game of thrones is the best board game ever
Sure its cool but Twilight Imperium is better  ) , it takes much longer time to play though.
On December 02 2006 19:03 VerticalHorizon wrote:
You're wrong. Sorry.
Care to explain why i am wrong in your opinion?
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The best serie for me ..... till I found "A Tale Of The Malazan Book Of The Fallen".
Also waiting for 2,5 years for the last book and it was like split into two ....
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EPT
