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On June 13 2012 07:00 hooahah wrote:DANCE WITH DRAGONS SPOILERS + Show Spoiler +He's alive. Remember the Azor Ahai prophecy...between smoke and salt, under a bleeding star, Azor Ahai will be reborn.
Reread that scene - salt from the tears, smoke from the wound, and blood from the dying knight's star emblem...
+ Show Spoiler +First time I've heard that interpretation. Seems like a bit of a stretch, but it also seems odd that he would specifically say a wound is "smoking" instead of steaming so I'm on board. Even if he turns out not to really be AA, it definitely sounds like something Melisandre would use to convince Jon he was AA.
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On June 14 2012 08:43 scudst0rm wrote:Show nested quote +On June 13 2012 07:00 hooahah wrote:On May 26 2012 05:32 sOda~ wrote:
jon.... ;______; DANCE WITH DRAGONS SPOILERS + Show Spoiler +He's alive. Remember the Azor Ahai prophecy...between smoke and salt, under a bleeding star, Azor Ahai will be reborn.
Reread that scene - salt from the tears, smoke from the wound, and blood from the dying knight's star emblem... + Show Spoiler +First time I've heard that interpretation. Seems like a bit of a stretch, but it also seems odd that he would specifically say a wound is "smoking" instead of steaming so I'm on board. Even if he turns out not to really be AA, it definitely sounds like something Melisandre would use to convince Jon he was AA.
+ Show Spoiler +Also, there's that interview where Alfie said GRRM told him who Jon's parents are and it will be a "Luke Skywalker" moment that will come to fruition eventually. I think it's more likely he will be actually alive (or at least undead) for something like that to happen, it would be weird if they simply kill the character and leave it dead, but you never know how literal that quote is, he may just mean it will be a big surprise. I don't really believe it though, added to all the other things that support the theory that Jon's story isn't over yet.
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On June 14 2012 09:20 SKC wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2012 08:43 scudst0rm wrote:On June 13 2012 07:00 hooahah wrote:On May 26 2012 05:32 sOda~ wrote:
jon.... ;______; DANCE WITH DRAGONS SPOILERS + Show Spoiler +He's alive. Remember the Azor Ahai prophecy...between smoke and salt, under a bleeding star, Azor Ahai will be reborn.
Reread that scene - salt from the tears, smoke from the wound, and blood from the dying knight's star emblem... + Show Spoiler +First time I've heard that interpretation. Seems like a bit of a stretch, but it also seems odd that he would specifically say a wound is "smoking" instead of steaming so I'm on board. Even if he turns out not to really be AA, it definitely sounds like something Melisandre would use to convince Jon he was AA. + Show Spoiler +Also, there's that interview where Alfie said GRRM told him who Jon's parents are and it will be a "Luke Skywalker" moment that will come to fruition eventually. I think it's more likely he will be actually alive (or at least undead) for something like that to happen, it would be weird if they simply kill the character and leave it dead, but you never know how literal that quote is, he may just mean it will be a big surprise. I don't really believe it though, added to all the other things that support the theory that Jon's story isn't over yet.
Ya, popular opinion is that Mel will bring him back to life. The question I'm still debating is whether or not he really is AA.
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I've read all the books, relatively casually. Recently someone told me that Aegon (Rhaegar's Son,) is a fake! I thought this was outrageous. What do you guys think?
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On June 14 2012 10:03 slyboogie wrote:
I've read all the books, relatively casually. Recently someone told me that Aegon (Rhaegar's Son,) is a fake! I thought this was outrageous. What do you guys think?
Pretty believable theory for me, I believe it exists mostly because of that prophecy where Dany sees the fake dragon make of paper or something like that? I don't think there is much evidence to it though, so unlike the L + R = J theory, I don't really believe in it as much as I just think it makes sense and I could see it coming from GRRM if he chooses to take that route.
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Another short Dance with Dragon bit, regarding AA:+ Show Spoiler +at some point Mellisandre is staring into the fire, trying to see Azor Ahai, and complains that instead of Stannis the fire only shows her Snow
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Just bought all the books for just 30 euros o.O. Brand new in a cool package. I was going to buy the book 3 part 2 for almost 20 euros when I saw the package. Madly low price for 5 books from the best series ever :D.
The tv show seems like its becoming one of my favourite tv shows ever too.
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Dany sees a cloth dragon being cheered by a crowd.
Jon also has a badass sword that could be turned into Lightbringer. I don't know how its going to happen but I think it might involve the death of Melisandre and Jon getting his body back. We will see.
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So... I'm in a bit of a problem here. I can't get through the first novel because I already know everything that happens. However, I've heard that there are quite a bit of differences in the first two books from GoT Season 1 and 2.
Do you guys think it would be possible to just start the third book without missing a ton in the first two books? I'm really having a hard time reading the first two.
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You'd miss a lot of really cool details and will end up looking back and regretting skipping them because you'll probably want to re-read them anyways after you realize how good the books are.
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On August 04 2012 07:29 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
You'd miss a lot of really cool details and will end up looking back and regretting skipping them because you'll probably want to re-read them anyways after you realize how good the books are.
Like what? You mean character-specific details, or altered / more detailed plotlines? I wouldn't really mind the latter, as long as it doesn't keep me from understanding things that are going on in the 3rd+ book. For the first one, though, I don't know...
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On August 04 2012 07:21 heishe wrote:
So... I'm in a bit of a problem here. I can't get through the first novel because I already know everything that happens. However, I've heard that there are quite a bit of differences in the first two books from GoT Season 1 and 2.
Do you guys think it would be possible to just start the third book without missing a ton in the first two books? I'm really having a hard time reading the first two.
It's okay to skip the first book since the first season of the TV show sticks quite closely to the book, so you won't miss too much.
However, there are many more deviations in the second season, so if you start reading with Storm of Swords, you're going to be confused. For instance, the TV show never introduces Reek or any of the Tullys (Catlyn's family) and Jon's and Dany's storylines in Clash of Kings are quite a bit different from the show.
So while I still would recommend starting with A Game of Thrones, you can skip that without missing anything crucial, whereas you won't be able to properly understand the story if you skip Clash of Kings.
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On August 04 2012 07:33 heishe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 07:29 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
You'd miss a lot of really cool details and will end up looking back and regretting skipping them because you'll probably want to re-read them anyways after you realize how good the books are. Like what? You mean character-specific details, or altered / more detailed plotlines? I wouldn't really mind the latter, as long as it doesn't keep me from understanding things that are going on in the 3rd+ book. For the first one, though, I don't know...
No, you should read the books. The show has missed out entire characters, like the Blackfish. Also the plot has been simplified greatly. Martin is a master of writing. Seems a waste to just ignore such craftwork. Martin also has a lot of subtle foreshadowing of future events. Season 3 won't come out until next Spring so you have the time to read the books.
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You won't be missing content per say but you will be missing viewpoints. The books a written from the view of specifics characters while obviously the TV show doesn't do this. That might change your perspective on events.
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On August 04 2012 07:21 heishe wrote:
So... I'm in a bit of a problem here. I can't get through the first novel because I already know everything that happens. However, I've heard that there are quite a bit of differences in the first two books from GoT Season 1 and 2.
Do you guys think it would be possible to just start the third book without missing a ton in the first two books? I'm really having a hard time reading the first two.
You can skip the first book but not the second one. I guess that's what people will tell you.
Because storywise book 1 and season 1 is pretty solid and in-line. While in the second book there are more deviations and even the minor ones might confuse you.
However choosing to skip the book or not is up to you and what you are after in your reading-experience. If you're just curious about the story and what happens then feel free to skip the first book. What you will be missing is lore, backflashes and alot of character build-up that the show couldn't properly present. If lore, and characters are important to you when you read. Read the books from the start.
I started reading when season 1 was done and I never regreted choosing to start from square 1 with the books. Altough I'm probably an extremist who've read the series 4 times over and spent countless hours reading/writing theories.
+ Show Spoiler +Edit: And if you choose to skip the first book I could probably compile a complementation and list of deviations plus what chapters you could benefit from reading. And you should be good to go for book 3. Feel free to pm if you're interested in this.
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On August 04 2012 07:33 heishe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 07:29 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
You'd miss a lot of really cool details and will end up looking back and regretting skipping them because you'll probably want to re-read them anyways after you realize how good the books are. Like what? You mean character-specific details, or altered / more detailed plotlines? I wouldn't really mind the latter, as long as it doesn't keep me from understanding things that are going on in the 3rd+ book. For the first one, though, I don't know...
If you want to skip reading as much as possible then you could go without book 1 and not get lost. You will miss things, but it would work. They were ~95% true to the book with season 1 and there were just a thing or two that were not very minor changes in that 5%.
This post has many up to the end of book 2/season 2 spoilers. This warning is for if anyone is skipping to it without reading the conversation that it joins.
You will not know a lot of minor to medium importance characters, countless details and their little implications/connections, and a lot of things about Dany and Arya in general that are altered in book 2 vs season 2. They do land in more or less the same type of position near the end of season 2 and book 2 but what happened getting there is reworked pretty thoroughly for both of them.
Mostly the same types of things are covered thematically, but with different content. Who it was who did X or where it happened is switched around here and there, a random dragon theft or three thrown in, the political layout of Quarth, and a handful of other things are all different. Arya's lacking bodycount or development of misanthropic inclinations in the show are character redefining, they just happened to keep her popular in the new image by appealing to enjoyed cliches and with some great Tywin/Arya stuff.
Stannis and Renly are also different enough characters in the books to be worth knowing how they were supposed to be rather than trying to move forward in the books based on a show understanding of Stannis. Call it a matter of Kingsmen vs Queensmen, Deism, Peaches and Melisandre drank first.
If the thing that would concern you is understanding characters then I'd say Arya, Stannis and maybe a little bit of Dany are the reasons to read all of it instead of picking up book 3 as a starting point. Perhaps Jon too come to think of it; the show screws a couple characters (Dany and Jon mostly) up a little by deciding to treat stupidity and naivete as synonyms and in doing so presenting them as a bit dull.
The next listed character difference is speculation and maybe a hint towards a spoiler or two for anyone who is only up to the end of book 2/season 2.
+ Show Spoiler +Things seem to be shaping up such that the relationship between Tyrion and Shae, and so the implications for the nature of both characters, will not align between the books and the show. This is more of a mid-book 3 issue though. The groundwork for it in season 2 is headed towards such a split.
Oh, and obligatory: "Tywin smiled?!"
Edit: this old thread seems redundant with the more current game of thrones book spoilers thread. If it were to become the place to discuss things only up to wherever the show is but with book stuff allowed that would be cool though.
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Thanks for the detailed answers! I think I'll simply read through all of the books now.
Also, I didn't realize this wasn't the proper thread anymore. I just searched for "song of ice and fire" and this had 1000 posts 
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On August 04 2012 08:44 Irrelevant Label wrote:Show nested quote +On August 04 2012 07:33 heishe wrote:On August 04 2012 07:29 GGTeMpLaR wrote:
You'd miss a lot of really cool details and will end up looking back and regretting skipping them because you'll probably want to re-read them anyways after you realize how good the books are. Like what? You mean character-specific details, or altered / more detailed plotlines? I wouldn't really mind the latter, as long as it doesn't keep me from understanding things that are going on in the 3rd+ book. For the first one, though, I don't know... If you want to skip reading as much as possible then you could go without book 1 and not get lost. You will miss things, but it would work. They were ~95% true to the book with season 1 and there were just a thing or two that were not very minor changes in that 5%. This post has many up to the end of book 2/season 2 spoilers. This warning is for if anyone is skipping to it without reading the conversation that it joins. You will not know a lot of minor to medium importance characters, countless details and their little implications/connections, and a lot of things about Dany and Arya in general that are altered in book 2 vs season 2. They do land in more or less the same type of position near the end of season 2 and book 2 but what happened getting there is reworked pretty thoroughly for both of them. Mostly the same types of things are covered thematically, but with different content. Who it was who did X or where it happened is switched around here and there, a random dragon theft or three thrown in, the political layout of Quarth, and a handful of other things are all different. Arya's lacking bodycount or development of misanthropic inclinations in the show are character redefining, they just happened to keep her popular in the new image by appealing to enjoyed cliches and with some great Tywin/Arya stuff. Stannis and Renly are also different enough characters in the books to be worth knowing how they were supposed to be rather than trying to move forward in the books based on a show understanding of Stannis. Call it a matter of Kingsmen vs Queensmen, Deism, Peaches and Melisandre drank first. If the thing that would concern you is understanding characters then I'd say Arya, Stannis and maybe a little bit of Dany are the reasons to read all of it instead of picking up book 3 as a starting point. Perhaps Jon too come to think of it; the show screws a couple characters (Dany and Jon mostly) up a little by deciding to treat stupidity and naivete as synonyms and in doing so presenting them as a bit dull. The next listed character difference is speculation and maybe a hint towards a spoiler or two for anyone who is only up to the end of book 2/season 2. + Show Spoiler +Things seem to be shaping up such that the relationship between Tyrion and Shae, and so the implications for the nature of both characters, will not align between the books and the show. This is more of a mid-book 3 issue though. The groundwork for it in season 2 is headed towards such a split. Oh, and obligatory: "Tywin smiled?!" Edit: this old thread seems redundant with the more current game of thrones book spoilers thread. If it were to become the place to discuss things only up to wherever the show is but with book stuff allowed that would be cool though.
What happened to the frog brother/sister in season 2? cool characters T.T
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The lack of the Reeds is very overrated as a change. I was concerned initially but they ended up having Osha do just about everything that mattered from them in terms of Bran's development such that the issue is fairly self contained. The introduction of the Reeds is delayed and that is that. They can cover Jojen's talk about the three eyed crow, green dreams, and starting Bran on taking his 'wargism' seriously just fine from the later starting point.
book 3
+ Show Spoiler +The bigger change is actually a distant ripple effect on Jon since only by stating some things more directly and earlier with Jojen is the reader told more clearly that Jon is a warg too since his own experiences with Ghost are far more subtle. 'Orellmyr' seems like a indication that they have a plan for that though, and as long as wildlings are calling him a warg by the time he leaves them it fits reasonably well as a matter of simple scene omission rather than plot or character alteration.
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The only major thing you would miss from skipping Book 1 is a cool bit about Ned and a promise he made to his sister, Lyanna, as she was dying. There are things that are different, certain bits of information are told in different ways (The books don't have the character Ros available for every character to spill their whole backstories onto), but all in all the first season was very accurate.
The 2nd season was very different. Arya's jouney happened in a completely different way in the books, though it does end up in the same place by the end. Jon Snow's and Bran's journeys are similar. They are depicted differently, but end up in roughly the same place. The Hound and Sansa are fairly closely depicted in the show, but you will miss a major part of Sansa's storyline that occurs between her and the Hound during the battle of Blackwater. Most of the King's Landing stuff was well done on the show, though the Battle of Blackwater plays out much better in the books, especially concerning one of my favorite characters, "The Onion Knight" Davos Seaworth. Robb Stark actually was better done on the show than in the books. His courtship between Robb and "Talisa" on the show, or "Jayne Westerling" in the books is not really depicted at all in the books and I think it was the biggest error that GRRM has made in the writing of the series. Reading the books, you are never made to understand why this girl is important enough to break the promise Robb gave to Walder Frey. So give some points to the show for that. The major changes that the show made happen in the storylines of Danerys Targarean and Theon Greyjoy. You literally won't understand what is going on in "The Storm of Swords" without reading their storylines from book 2.
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EPT
