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On July 30 2014 22:26 zlefin wrote:
I don't think you've looked at conflicts where people truly don't care about civilian casualties.
you also fail to prove the thesis, due to failing to cover the issue of the location being used by hamas to fire mortars; which is also rather dishonest, seeing as that claim was covered in the article.
You're right that is in the article. Its an easy claim to make isn't it? I think the responsibility is Israel's to PROVE that that is the case, not on everyone else to prove that it isn't, especially if they are also claiming to be trying to avoid civilian casualties.
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On July 30 2014 22:26 zlefin wrote:
I don't think you've looked at conflicts where people truly don't care about civilian casualties.
you also fail to prove the thesis, due to failing to cover the issue of the location being used by hamas to fire mortars; which is also rather dishonest, seeing as that claim was covered in the article.
Actually, as the article says, the location itself was not being used by Hamas. The Israeli military said that militants had fired mortars from the vicinity of the school. It apparently decided to fire back knowing full well the school was there and housing innocent refugees.
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My country was denied entry into EU until we gave our general over to Hague who was accused of ordering artillery attacks on civilians. I really hope someone in Israel gets to answer for these crimes against civilians. There is zero excuse for this by now.
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On July 30 2014 22:59 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 22:26 zlefin wrote:
I don't think you've looked at conflicts where people truly don't care about civilian casualties.
you also fail to prove the thesis, due to failing to cover the issue of the location being used by hamas to fire mortars; which is also rather dishonest, seeing as that claim was covered in the article. You're right that is in the article. Its an easy claim to make isn't it? I think the responsibility is Israel's to PROVE that that is the case, not on everyone else to prove that it isn't, especially if they are also claiming to be trying to avoid civilian casualties.
The sort of proof people on the internet are looking for is not something that is normally available in a combat zone. These sort of stuff is not the hype control even we get in video games or in the movies. Although Israel might be trying to avoid fighting around the UN shelters, if they are attacked near them, there isn’t a lot that can be done about it. They say so in the article that they would like to hold their fire near the shelters, but the other side might be willing to do so.
But people who wants “proof” from a combat zone are asking for things that might never be available.
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On July 30 2014 21:50 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 21:24 radiatoren wrote:On July 30 2014 21:01 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote:
I don't want to get involved into this debate, but I cannot believe how terribly hypocritical most people on this website are, it's fucking ridiculous. Could you be a tad more specific about the hypocricies? It is a bit easy to slam a broad condemnation on people without it. Not that I don't think you may have a point, but not wanting to get involved in a debate on one side and critizising people in a debate, could in itself be seen as... hypocricy. Some posters wear their bias either side on their sleeve and claim the other side of not being objective. People dismiss new articles as “propaganda” and simply refuse to accept that the side they support could be escalating the situation. This bias is strong in this thread. And to be clear, I give zero fucks who wins or who is wrong in this conflict. At this point both sides deserve each other and if they somehow wiped each other out, I wouldn't be upset. Like many third party observers, I am just tired of the conflict and the parties need to rehash 70 years of history each time violence flairs up. At some point you've got to make the first step and gather knowledge yourself. When someone's argument is that : the occupation is over since 2005, that Hamas refuse to talk, and that they use human shield, it is propaganda. The occupation is not ended according to the UN, Hamas accepted to at least negociate some time ago, and many many international agencies showed that Hamas did not, or at least find no proof of using human shield, while Israel has been condemn, with many picture, on their use of palestinian civilians in war as human shield and for other duty (like checking bags for bombs). That you are ignorant of all those facts does not make those simple and false argument "not propaganda". I add that, when you think about the fact that Israel even paid Youtube for advertising on their attack on gaza, and when you think about how much israeli high officials are on TV, or how the IDF itself communicate and how the media take their information without any discussions on it, then I think it is safe to say "propaganda".
Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not?
Edit: Spelling
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On July 30 2014 23:09 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 21:50 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 21:24 radiatoren wrote:On July 30 2014 21:01 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote:
I don't want to get involved into this debate, but I cannot believe how terribly hypocritical most people on this website are, it's fucking ridiculous. Could you be a tad more specific about the hypocricies? It is a bit easy to slam a broad condemnation on people without it. Not that I don't think you may have a point, but not wanting to get involved in a debate on one side and critizising people in a debate, could in itself be seen as... hypocricy. Some posters wear their bias either side on their sleeve and claim the other side of not being objective. People dismiss new articles as “propaganda” and simply refuse to accept that the side they support could be escalating the situation. This bias is strong in this thread. And to be clear, I give zero fucks who wins or who is wrong in this conflict. At this point both sides deserve each other and if they somehow wiped each other out, I wouldn't be upset. Like many third party observers, I am just tired of the conflict and the parties need to rehash 70 years of history each time violence flairs up. At some point you've got to make the first step and gather knowledge yourself. When someone's argument is that : the occupation is over since 2005, that Hamas refuse to talk, and that they use human shield, it is propaganda. The occupation is not ended according to the UN, Hamas accepted to at least negociate some time ago, and many many international agencies showed that Hamas did not, or at least find no proof of using human shield, while Israel has been condemn, with many picture, on their use of palestinian civilians in war as human shield and for other duty (like checking bags for bombs). That you are ignorant of all those facts does not make those simple and false argument "not propaganda". I add that, when you think about the fact that Israel even paid Youtube for advertising on their attack on gaza, and when you think about how much israeli high officials are on TV, or how the IDF itself communicate and how the media take their information without any discussions on it, then I think it is safe to say "propaganda". Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not? Edit: Spelling
I'm not justifying the attacks on civilians, because those are crime, but as to the reason why they are hitting civilian area it is pretty simple : hamas' rockets are low grade, that hit randomly, with no sophisticated target system. So it's not so much that hamas is targetting civilian and much more that they launch rockets and hope it land somewhere in Israel - which is a crime anyway. Some people from Hamas argued that the IDF military center was in the center of Tel Aviv, close to schools and a market - that's basically the same argument the IDF give to justify their attacks on UN facilities. For me both should be condemned.
But do you see that the response you gave to my post had nothing at all to do with what I was talking about ? Do you agree on that ?
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On July 30 2014 22:15 Jockmcplop wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433Show nested quote +Mr Gunness from the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) told the BBC that Israel had been told 17 times that the school in the Jabaliya refugee camp was housing the displaced.
"The last time was hours before the fatal attack," he said.
"Our initial assessment is that it was Israeli artillery that hit our school." That's some pretty direct evidence that Israel is in no way trying to avoid civilian casualties. 17 times, they were warned that the shelter was holding civilians made homeless.
From the BBC showing Israel dropping leaflets warning Palestinians to leave the area within Gaza city.
![[image loading]](http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76627000/jpg/_76627213_pvx7erxj.jpg)
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On July 30 2014 23:12 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:09 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 21:50 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 21:24 radiatoren wrote:On July 30 2014 21:01 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote:
I don't want to get involved into this debate, but I cannot believe how terribly hypocritical most people on this website are, it's fucking ridiculous. Could you be a tad more specific about the hypocricies? It is a bit easy to slam a broad condemnation on people without it. Not that I don't think you may have a point, but not wanting to get involved in a debate on one side and critizising people in a debate, could in itself be seen as... hypocricy. Some posters wear their bias either side on their sleeve and claim the other side of not being objective. People dismiss new articles as “propaganda” and simply refuse to accept that the side they support could be escalating the situation. This bias is strong in this thread. And to be clear, I give zero fucks who wins or who is wrong in this conflict. At this point both sides deserve each other and if they somehow wiped each other out, I wouldn't be upset. Like many third party observers, I am just tired of the conflict and the parties need to rehash 70 years of history each time violence flairs up. At some point you've got to make the first step and gather knowledge yourself. When someone's argument is that : the occupation is over since 2005, that Hamas refuse to talk, and that they use human shield, it is propaganda. The occupation is not ended according to the UN, Hamas accepted to at least negociate some time ago, and many many international agencies showed that Hamas did not, or at least find no proof of using human shield, while Israel has been condemn, with many picture, on their use of palestinian civilians in war as human shield and for other duty (like checking bags for bombs). That you are ignorant of all those facts does not make those simple and false argument "not propaganda". I add that, when you think about the fact that Israel even paid Youtube for advertising on their attack on gaza, and when you think about how much israeli high officials are on TV, or how the IDF itself communicate and how the media take their information without any discussions on it, then I think it is safe to say "propaganda". Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not? Edit: Spelling I'm not justifying the attacks on civilians, because those are crime, but as to the reason why they are hitting civilian area it is pretty simple : hamas' rockets are low grade, that hit randomly, with no sophisticated target system. So it's not so much that hamas is targetting civilian and much more that they launch rockets and hope it land somewhere in Israel.
Which is pretty much the same thing. You don’t get a pass for targeting civilians because your weapon systems are shit, you know it, and your shooting them anyways hoping this hit something. Its like shooting into a crowd where you seen one soldier and claiming you were only trying to hit him.
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On July 30 2014 23:15 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:12 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:09 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 21:50 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 21:24 radiatoren wrote:On July 30 2014 21:01 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote:
I don't want to get involved into this debate, but I cannot believe how terribly hypocritical most people on this website are, it's fucking ridiculous. Could you be a tad more specific about the hypocricies? It is a bit easy to slam a broad condemnation on people without it. Not that I don't think you may have a point, but not wanting to get involved in a debate on one side and critizising people in a debate, could in itself be seen as... hypocricy. Some posters wear their bias either side on their sleeve and claim the other side of not being objective. People dismiss new articles as “propaganda” and simply refuse to accept that the side they support could be escalating the situation. This bias is strong in this thread. And to be clear, I give zero fucks who wins or who is wrong in this conflict. At this point both sides deserve each other and if they somehow wiped each other out, I wouldn't be upset. Like many third party observers, I am just tired of the conflict and the parties need to rehash 70 years of history each time violence flairs up. At some point you've got to make the first step and gather knowledge yourself. When someone's argument is that : the occupation is over since 2005, that Hamas refuse to talk, and that they use human shield, it is propaganda. The occupation is not ended according to the UN, Hamas accepted to at least negociate some time ago, and many many international agencies showed that Hamas did not, or at least find no proof of using human shield, while Israel has been condemn, with many picture, on their use of palestinian civilians in war as human shield and for other duty (like checking bags for bombs). That you are ignorant of all those facts does not make those simple and false argument "not propaganda". I add that, when you think about the fact that Israel even paid Youtube for advertising on their attack on gaza, and when you think about how much israeli high officials are on TV, or how the IDF itself communicate and how the media take their information without any discussions on it, then I think it is safe to say "propaganda". Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not? Edit: Spelling I'm not justifying the attacks on civilians, because those are crime, but as to the reason why they are hitting civilian area it is pretty simple : hamas' rockets are low grade, that hit randomly, with no sophisticated target system. So it's not so much that hamas is targetting civilian and much more that they launch rockets and hope it land somewhere in Israel. Which is pretty much the same thing. You don’t get a pass for targeting civilians because your weapon systems are shit, you know it, and your shooting them anyways hoping this hit something. Its like shooting into a crowd where you seen one soldier and claiming you were only trying to hit him.
Yes there are no pass, it's a crime according to international law. That's the reason why the Hamas is a terrorist organisation - just like Israel is a terrorist state.
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On July 30 2014 23:12 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:09 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 21:50 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 21:24 radiatoren wrote:On July 30 2014 21:01 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote:
I don't want to get involved into this debate, but I cannot believe how terribly hypocritical most people on this website are, it's fucking ridiculous. Could you be a tad more specific about the hypocricies? It is a bit easy to slam a broad condemnation on people without it. Not that I don't think you may have a point, but not wanting to get involved in a debate on one side and critizising people in a debate, could in itself be seen as... hypocricy. Some posters wear their bias either side on their sleeve and claim the other side of not being objective. People dismiss new articles as “propaganda” and simply refuse to accept that the side they support could be escalating the situation. This bias is strong in this thread. And to be clear, I give zero fucks who wins or who is wrong in this conflict. At this point both sides deserve each other and if they somehow wiped each other out, I wouldn't be upset. Like many third party observers, I am just tired of the conflict and the parties need to rehash 70 years of history each time violence flairs up. At some point you've got to make the first step and gather knowledge yourself. When someone's argument is that : the occupation is over since 2005, that Hamas refuse to talk, and that they use human shield, it is propaganda. The occupation is not ended according to the UN, Hamas accepted to at least negociate some time ago, and many many international agencies showed that Hamas did not, or at least find no proof of using human shield, while Israel has been condemn, with many picture, on their use of palestinian civilians in war as human shield and for other duty (like checking bags for bombs). That you are ignorant of all those facts does not make those simple and false argument "not propaganda". I add that, when you think about the fact that Israel even paid Youtube for advertising on their attack on gaza, and when you think about how much israeli high officials are on TV, or how the IDF itself communicate and how the media take their information without any discussions on it, then I think it is safe to say "propaganda". Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not? Edit: Spelling I'm not justifying the attacks on civilians, because those are crime, but as to the reason why they are hitting civilian area it is pretty simple : hamas' rockets are low grade, that hit randomly, with no sophisticated target system. So it's not so much that hamas is targetting civilian and much more that they launch rockets and hope it land somewhere in Israel.
And you don't think that is equally crazy?
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On July 30 2014 23:15 Donger wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 22:15 Jockmcplop wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433Mr Gunness from the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) told the BBC that Israel had been told 17 times that the school in the Jabaliya refugee camp was housing the displaced.
"The last time was hours before the fatal attack," he said.
"Our initial assessment is that it was Israeli artillery that hit our school." That's some pretty direct evidence that Israel is in no way trying to avoid civilian casualties. 17 times, they were warned that the shelter was holding civilians made homeless. From the BBC showing Israel dropping leaflets warning Palestinians to leave the area within Gaza city.
Great so then they target a shelter that they know for sure is full of civilians that they have made homeless.
All praise merciful Israel.
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It for sure is less devastating...
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On July 30 2014 23:17 BlueSpace wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:12 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:09 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 21:50 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 21:24 radiatoren wrote:On July 30 2014 21:01 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote:
I don't want to get involved into this debate, but I cannot believe how terribly hypocritical most people on this website are, it's fucking ridiculous. Could you be a tad more specific about the hypocricies? It is a bit easy to slam a broad condemnation on people without it. Not that I don't think you may have a point, but not wanting to get involved in a debate on one side and critizising people in a debate, could in itself be seen as... hypocricy. Some posters wear their bias either side on their sleeve and claim the other side of not being objective. People dismiss new articles as “propaganda” and simply refuse to accept that the side they support could be escalating the situation. This bias is strong in this thread. And to be clear, I give zero fucks who wins or who is wrong in this conflict. At this point both sides deserve each other and if they somehow wiped each other out, I wouldn't be upset. Like many third party observers, I am just tired of the conflict and the parties need to rehash 70 years of history each time violence flairs up. At some point you've got to make the first step and gather knowledge yourself. When someone's argument is that : the occupation is over since 2005, that Hamas refuse to talk, and that they use human shield, it is propaganda. The occupation is not ended according to the UN, Hamas accepted to at least negociate some time ago, and many many international agencies showed that Hamas did not, or at least find no proof of using human shield, while Israel has been condemn, with many picture, on their use of palestinian civilians in war as human shield and for other duty (like checking bags for bombs). That you are ignorant of all those facts does not make those simple and false argument "not propaganda". I add that, when you think about the fact that Israel even paid Youtube for advertising on their attack on gaza, and when you think about how much israeli high officials are on TV, or how the IDF itself communicate and how the media take their information without any discussions on it, then I think it is safe to say "propaganda". Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not? Edit: Spelling I'm not justifying the attacks on civilians, because those are crime, but as to the reason why they are hitting civilian area it is pretty simple : hamas' rockets are low grade, that hit randomly, with no sophisticated target system. So it's not so much that hamas is targetting civilian and much more that they launch rockets and hope it land somewhere in Israel. And you don't think that is equally crazy?
Yes ! So let's put restriction on Israel just like we do on Gaza ! Resolve this shit and stop supporting the terrorist state versus the terrorist para military and islamic group.
On July 30 2014 23:19 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:15 Donger wrote:On July 30 2014 22:15 Jockmcplop wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433Mr Gunness from the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) told the BBC that Israel had been told 17 times that the school in the Jabaliya refugee camp was housing the displaced.
"The last time was hours before the fatal attack," he said.
"Our initial assessment is that it was Israeli artillery that hit our school." That's some pretty direct evidence that Israel is in no way trying to avoid civilian casualties. 17 times, they were warned that the shelter was holding civilians made homeless. From the BBC showing Israel dropping leaflets warning Palestinians to leave the area within Gaza city. Great so then they target a shelter that they know for sure is full of civilians that they have made homeless. All praise merciful Israel.
Half of gaza is now a buffer zone no-go area.
![[image loading]](http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/76622000/gif/_76622247_gaza_shejaiya_624_latest.gif)
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On July 30 2014 23:20 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:17 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 23:12 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:09 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 21:50 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 21:24 radiatoren wrote:On July 30 2014 21:01 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote:
I don't want to get involved into this debate, but I cannot believe how terribly hypocritical most people on this website are, it's fucking ridiculous. Could you be a tad more specific about the hypocricies? It is a bit easy to slam a broad condemnation on people without it. Not that I don't think you may have a point, but not wanting to get involved in a debate on one side and critizising people in a debate, could in itself be seen as... hypocricy. Some posters wear their bias either side on their sleeve and claim the other side of not being objective. People dismiss new articles as “propaganda” and simply refuse to accept that the side they support could be escalating the situation. This bias is strong in this thread. And to be clear, I give zero fucks who wins or who is wrong in this conflict. At this point both sides deserve each other and if they somehow wiped each other out, I wouldn't be upset. Like many third party observers, I am just tired of the conflict and the parties need to rehash 70 years of history each time violence flairs up. At some point you've got to make the first step and gather knowledge yourself. When someone's argument is that : the occupation is over since 2005, that Hamas refuse to talk, and that they use human shield, it is propaganda. The occupation is not ended according to the UN, Hamas accepted to at least negociate some time ago, and many many international agencies showed that Hamas did not, or at least find no proof of using human shield, while Israel has been condemn, with many picture, on their use of palestinian civilians in war as human shield and for other duty (like checking bags for bombs). That you are ignorant of all those facts does not make those simple and false argument "not propaganda". I add that, when you think about the fact that Israel even paid Youtube for advertising on their attack on gaza, and when you think about how much israeli high officials are on TV, or how the IDF itself communicate and how the media take their information without any discussions on it, then I think it is safe to say "propaganda". Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not? Edit: Spelling I'm not justifying the attacks on civilians, because those are crime, but as to the reason why they are hitting civilian area it is pretty simple : hamas' rockets are low grade, that hit randomly, with no sophisticated target system. So it's not so much that hamas is targetting civilian and much more that they launch rockets and hope it land somewhere in Israel. And you don't think that is equally crazy? Yes ! So let's put restriction on Israel just like we do on Gaza ! Resolve this shit and stop supporting the terrorist state versus the terrorist para military and islamic group. Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:19 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 30 2014 23:15 Donger wrote:On July 30 2014 22:15 Jockmcplop wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433Mr Gunness from the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) told the BBC that Israel had been told 17 times that the school in the Jabaliya refugee camp was housing the displaced.
"The last time was hours before the fatal attack," he said.
"Our initial assessment is that it was Israeli artillery that hit our school." That's some pretty direct evidence that Israel is in no way trying to avoid civilian casualties. 17 times, they were warned that the shelter was holding civilians made homeless. From the BBC showing Israel dropping leaflets warning Palestinians to leave the area within Gaza city. Great so then they target a shelter that they know for sure is full of civilians that they have made homeless. All praise merciful Israel. Half of gaza is now a buffer zone no-go area.
How about neither because they both suck. Neither side gets my support and I hope they can get done with their stupid pissing match so everyone else can get back to their normal lives.
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On July 30 2014 23:26 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:20 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:17 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 23:12 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:09 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 21:50 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 21:24 radiatoren wrote:On July 30 2014 21:01 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote:
I don't want to get involved into this debate, but I cannot believe how terribly hypocritical most people on this website are, it's fucking ridiculous. Could you be a tad more specific about the hypocricies? It is a bit easy to slam a broad condemnation on people without it. Not that I don't think you may have a point, but not wanting to get involved in a debate on one side and critizising people in a debate, could in itself be seen as... hypocricy. Some posters wear their bias either side on their sleeve and claim the other side of not being objective. People dismiss new articles as “propaganda” and simply refuse to accept that the side they support could be escalating the situation. This bias is strong in this thread. And to be clear, I give zero fucks who wins or who is wrong in this conflict. At this point both sides deserve each other and if they somehow wiped each other out, I wouldn't be upset. Like many third party observers, I am just tired of the conflict and the parties need to rehash 70 years of history each time violence flairs up. At some point you've got to make the first step and gather knowledge yourself. When someone's argument is that : the occupation is over since 2005, that Hamas refuse to talk, and that they use human shield, it is propaganda. The occupation is not ended according to the UN, Hamas accepted to at least negociate some time ago, and many many international agencies showed that Hamas did not, or at least find no proof of using human shield, while Israel has been condemn, with many picture, on their use of palestinian civilians in war as human shield and for other duty (like checking bags for bombs). That you are ignorant of all those facts does not make those simple and false argument "not propaganda". I add that, when you think about the fact that Israel even paid Youtube for advertising on their attack on gaza, and when you think about how much israeli high officials are on TV, or how the IDF itself communicate and how the media take their information without any discussions on it, then I think it is safe to say "propaganda". Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not? Edit: Spelling I'm not justifying the attacks on civilians, because those are crime, but as to the reason why they are hitting civilian area it is pretty simple : hamas' rockets are low grade, that hit randomly, with no sophisticated target system. So it's not so much that hamas is targetting civilian and much more that they launch rockets and hope it land somewhere in Israel. And you don't think that is equally crazy? Yes ! So let's put restriction on Israel just like we do on Gaza ! Resolve this shit and stop supporting the terrorist state versus the terrorist para military and islamic group. On July 30 2014 23:19 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 30 2014 23:15 Donger wrote:On July 30 2014 22:15 Jockmcplop wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433Mr Gunness from the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) told the BBC that Israel had been told 17 times that the school in the Jabaliya refugee camp was housing the displaced.
"The last time was hours before the fatal attack," he said.
"Our initial assessment is that it was Israeli artillery that hit our school." That's some pretty direct evidence that Israel is in no way trying to avoid civilian casualties. 17 times, they were warned that the shelter was holding civilians made homeless. From the BBC showing Israel dropping leaflets warning Palestinians to leave the area within Gaza city. Great so then they target a shelter that they know for sure is full of civilians that they have made homeless. All praise merciful Israel. Half of gaza is now a buffer zone no-go area. How about neither because they both suck. Neither side gets my support and I hope they can get done with their stupid pissing match so everyone else can get back to their normal lives.
But you know that the US support Israel in every shit they do right ? You know that you gove I don't know how much billion dollars to Israel every year ? You know that in every operation from Israel the US give a discretionary help, in dollars or in weapons ?
In the mean time, Gaza is surviving with humanitarian aid, humanitarian aid that got cancelled as soon as Hamas got elected.
And do not forget, there are people suffering on one side, innocent people.
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On July 30 2014 23:28 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:26 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 23:20 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:17 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 23:12 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:09 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 21:50 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 21:24 radiatoren wrote:On July 30 2014 21:01 rudimentalfeelthelov wrote:
I don't want to get involved into this debate, but I cannot believe how terribly hypocritical most people on this website are, it's fucking ridiculous. Could you be a tad more specific about the hypocricies? It is a bit easy to slam a broad condemnation on people without it. Not that I don't think you may have a point, but not wanting to get involved in a debate on one side and critizising people in a debate, could in itself be seen as... hypocricy. Some posters wear their bias either side on their sleeve and claim the other side of not being objective. People dismiss new articles as “propaganda” and simply refuse to accept that the side they support could be escalating the situation. This bias is strong in this thread. And to be clear, I give zero fucks who wins or who is wrong in this conflict. At this point both sides deserve each other and if they somehow wiped each other out, I wouldn't be upset. Like many third party observers, I am just tired of the conflict and the parties need to rehash 70 years of history each time violence flairs up. At some point you've got to make the first step and gather knowledge yourself. When someone's argument is that : the occupation is over since 2005, that Hamas refuse to talk, and that they use human shield, it is propaganda. The occupation is not ended according to the UN, Hamas accepted to at least negociate some time ago, and many many international agencies showed that Hamas did not, or at least find no proof of using human shield, while Israel has been condemn, with many picture, on their use of palestinian civilians in war as human shield and for other duty (like checking bags for bombs). That you are ignorant of all those facts does not make those simple and false argument "not propaganda". I add that, when you think about the fact that Israel even paid Youtube for advertising on their attack on gaza, and when you think about how much israeli high officials are on TV, or how the IDF itself communicate and how the media take their information without any discussions on it, then I think it is safe to say "propaganda". Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not? Edit: Spelling I'm not justifying the attacks on civilians, because those are crime, but as to the reason why they are hitting civilian area it is pretty simple : hamas' rockets are low grade, that hit randomly, with no sophisticated target system. So it's not so much that hamas is targetting civilian and much more that they launch rockets and hope it land somewhere in Israel. And you don't think that is equally crazy? Yes ! So let's put restriction on Israel just like we do on Gaza ! Resolve this shit and stop supporting the terrorist state versus the terrorist para military and islamic group. On July 30 2014 23:19 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 30 2014 23:15 Donger wrote:On July 30 2014 22:15 Jockmcplop wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433Mr Gunness from the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) told the BBC that Israel had been told 17 times that the school in the Jabaliya refugee camp was housing the displaced.
"The last time was hours before the fatal attack," he said.
"Our initial assessment is that it was Israeli artillery that hit our school." That's some pretty direct evidence that Israel is in no way trying to avoid civilian casualties. 17 times, they were warned that the shelter was holding civilians made homeless. From the BBC showing Israel dropping leaflets warning Palestinians to leave the area within Gaza city. Great so then they target a shelter that they know for sure is full of civilians that they have made homeless. All praise merciful Israel. Half of gaza is now a buffer zone no-go area. How about neither because they both suck. Neither side gets my support and I hope they can get done with their stupid pissing match so everyone else can get back to their normal lives. But you know that the US support Israel in every shit they do right ? You know that you gove I don't know how much billion dollars to Israel every year ? You know that in every operation from Israel the US give a discretionary help, in dollars or in weapons ? In the mean time, Gaza is surviving with humanitarian aid, humanitarian aid that got cancelled as soon as Hamas got elected. And do not forget, there are people suffering on one side, innocent people.
That's my government, not me. They do lots of shit I don't approve of, but there is shit all I can do about it except for vote every couple of years. We also have trade agreements with Russia, who we are not fans of right now. They sent my brother into two stupid, pointless wars and both he and I didn't really like that either.
Also, if your a modern nation in the world and have to choose between supporting Hamas or Israel and which one benefits you most, it isn't really a contest. Foreign police isn't dictated by morals or what is justified or not. It dictated by pure pragmatism.
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On July 30 2014 23:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:28 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:26 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 23:20 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:17 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 23:12 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:09 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 21:50 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 21:24 radiatoren wrote:
[quote]
Could you be a tad more specific about the hypocricies? It is a bit easy to slam a broad condemnation on people without it. Not that I don't think you may have a point, but not wanting to get involved in a debate on one side and critizising people in a debate, could in itself be seen as... hypocricy. Some posters wear their bias either side on their sleeve and claim the other side of not being objective. People dismiss new articles as “propaganda” and simply refuse to accept that the side they support could be escalating the situation. This bias is strong in this thread. And to be clear, I give zero fucks who wins or who is wrong in this conflict. At this point both sides deserve each other and if they somehow wiped each other out, I wouldn't be upset. Like many third party observers, I am just tired of the conflict and the parties need to rehash 70 years of history each time violence flairs up. At some point you've got to make the first step and gather knowledge yourself. When someone's argument is that : the occupation is over since 2005, that Hamas refuse to talk, and that they use human shield, it is propaganda. The occupation is not ended according to the UN, Hamas accepted to at least negociate some time ago, and many many international agencies showed that Hamas did not, or at least find no proof of using human shield, while Israel has been condemn, with many picture, on their use of palestinian civilians in war as human shield and for other duty (like checking bags for bombs). That you are ignorant of all those facts does not make those simple and false argument "not propaganda". I add that, when you think about the fact that Israel even paid Youtube for advertising on their attack on gaza, and when you think about how much israeli high officials are on TV, or how the IDF itself communicate and how the media take their information without any discussions on it, then I think it is safe to say "propaganda". Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not? Edit: Spelling I'm not justifying the attacks on civilians, because those are crime, but as to the reason why they are hitting civilian area it is pretty simple : hamas' rockets are low grade, that hit randomly, with no sophisticated target system. So it's not so much that hamas is targetting civilian and much more that they launch rockets and hope it land somewhere in Israel. And you don't think that is equally crazy? Yes ! So let's put restriction on Israel just like we do on Gaza ! Resolve this shit and stop supporting the terrorist state versus the terrorist para military and islamic group. On July 30 2014 23:19 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 30 2014 23:15 Donger wrote:On July 30 2014 22:15 Jockmcplop wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433Mr Gunness from the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) told the BBC that Israel had been told 17 times that the school in the Jabaliya refugee camp was housing the displaced.
"The last time was hours before the fatal attack," he said.
"Our initial assessment is that it was Israeli artillery that hit our school." That's some pretty direct evidence that Israel is in no way trying to avoid civilian casualties. 17 times, they were warned that the shelter was holding civilians made homeless. From the BBC showing Israel dropping leaflets warning Palestinians to leave the area within Gaza city. Great so then they target a shelter that they know for sure is full of civilians that they have made homeless. All praise merciful Israel. Half of gaza is now a buffer zone no-go area. How about neither because they both suck. Neither side gets my support and I hope they can get done with their stupid pissing match so everyone else can get back to their normal lives. But you know that the US support Israel in every shit they do right ? You know that you gove I don't know how much billion dollars to Israel every year ? You know that in every operation from Israel the US give a discretionary help, in dollars or in weapons ? In the mean time, Gaza is surviving with humanitarian aid, humanitarian aid that got cancelled as soon as Hamas got elected. And do not forget, there are people suffering on one side, innocent people. That's my government, not me. They do lots of shit I don't approve of. We also have trade agreements with Russia, who we are not fans of right now. Also, if your a modern nation in the world and have to choose between supporting Hamas or Israel and which one benefits you most, it isn't really a contest. Foreign police isn't dictated by morals or what is justified or not. It dictated by pure pragmatism.
You see that's a strategic mistake because Israel is at the core of every problem in the region, with their colonialist ideology, and has had many reckless actions (take the exemple of the bombing and killing in Iran that the Mossad did using the CIA name) while the arabo muslim world is an unstable area that has not only many ressources that the US needs. Not to mention islamism can harm the US as it did in the past.
The US would greatly gain from a more balanced positioning in this conflict, in terms of global image and stability with its partner in the middle east. Sometime following your moral is the most pragmatic thing to do, being a bad guy in the open doesn't bring much sympathy.
There are talk in the US to give a supplement financial aid to Israel for this operation.
US Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says Israel urgently needs more financial aid from the United States for its offensive against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip.
http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/28/373165/israel-in-urgent-need-of-money-from-us-reid/
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On July 30 2014 23:37 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:34 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 23:28 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:26 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 23:20 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:17 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 23:12 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:09 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 21:50 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 21:44 Plansix wrote:
[quote]
Some posters wear their bias either side on their sleeve and claim the other side of not being objective. People dismiss new articles as “propaganda” and simply refuse to accept that the side they support could be escalating the situation. This bias is strong in this thread.
And to be clear, I give zero fucks who wins or who is wrong in this conflict. At this point both sides deserve each other and if they somehow wiped each other out, I wouldn't be upset. Like many third party observers, I am just tired of the conflict and the parties need to rehash 70 years of history each time violence flairs up. At some point you've got to make the first step and gather knowledge yourself. When someone's argument is that : the occupation is over since 2005, that Hamas refuse to talk, and that they use human shield, it is propaganda. The occupation is not ended according to the UN, Hamas accepted to at least negociate some time ago, and many many international agencies showed that Hamas did not, or at least find no proof of using human shield, while Israel has been condemn, with many picture, on their use of palestinian civilians in war as human shield and for other duty (like checking bags for bombs). That you are ignorant of all those facts does not make those simple and false argument "not propaganda". I add that, when you think about the fact that Israel even paid Youtube for advertising on their attack on gaza, and when you think about how much israeli high officials are on TV, or how the IDF itself communicate and how the media take their information without any discussions on it, then I think it is safe to say "propaganda". Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not? Edit: Spelling I'm not justifying the attacks on civilians, because those are crime, but as to the reason why they are hitting civilian area it is pretty simple : hamas' rockets are low grade, that hit randomly, with no sophisticated target system. So it's not so much that hamas is targetting civilian and much more that they launch rockets and hope it land somewhere in Israel. And you don't think that is equally crazy? Yes ! So let's put restriction on Israel just like we do on Gaza ! Resolve this shit and stop supporting the terrorist state versus the terrorist para military and islamic group. On July 30 2014 23:19 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 30 2014 23:15 Donger wrote:On July 30 2014 22:15 Jockmcplop wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433Mr Gunness from the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) told the BBC that Israel had been told 17 times that the school in the Jabaliya refugee camp was housing the displaced.
"The last time was hours before the fatal attack," he said.
"Our initial assessment is that it was Israeli artillery that hit our school." That's some pretty direct evidence that Israel is in no way trying to avoid civilian casualties. 17 times, they were warned that the shelter was holding civilians made homeless. From the BBC showing Israel dropping leaflets warning Palestinians to leave the area within Gaza city. Great so then they target a shelter that they know for sure is full of civilians that they have made homeless. All praise merciful Israel. Half of gaza is now a buffer zone no-go area. How about neither because they both suck. Neither side gets my support and I hope they can get done with their stupid pissing match so everyone else can get back to their normal lives. But you know that the US support Israel in every shit they do right ? You know that you gove I don't know how much billion dollars to Israel every year ? You know that in every operation from Israel the US give a discretionary help, in dollars or in weapons ? In the mean time, Gaza is surviving with humanitarian aid, humanitarian aid that got cancelled as soon as Hamas got elected. And do not forget, there are people suffering on one side, innocent people. That's my government, not me. They do lots of shit I don't approve of. We also have trade agreements with Russia, who we are not fans of right now. Also, if your a modern nation in the world and have to choose between supporting Hamas or Israel and which one benefits you most, it isn't really a contest. Foreign police isn't dictated by morals or what is justified or not. It dictated by pure pragmatism. You see that's a strategic mistake because Israel is at the core of every problem in the region, with their colonialist ideology, and has had many reckless actions (take the exemple of the bombing and killing in Iran that the Mossad did using the CIA name) while the arabo muslim world is an unstable area that has not only many ressources that the US needs. Not to mention islamism can harm the US as it did in the past. The US would greatly gain from a more balanced positioning in this conflict, in terms of global image and stability with its partner in the middle east. There are talk in the US to give a financial aid to Israel. Show nested quote +US Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says Israel urgently needs more financial aid from the United States for its offensive against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/28/373165/israel-in-urgent-need-of-money-from-us-reid/
I don't really think its Israel's fault that they are the cause of every problem in the area though. That's a historical issue ie they should never have been there in the first place.
You have my glorious government to thank for that one.
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On July 30 2014 23:42 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:37 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:34 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 23:28 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:26 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 23:20 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:17 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 23:12 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:09 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 21:50 WhiteDog wrote:
[quote]
At some point you've got to make the first step and gather knowledge yourself. When someone's argument is that : the occupation is over since 2005, that Hamas refuse to talk, and that they use human shield, it is propaganda.
The occupation is not ended according to the UN, Hamas accepted to at least negociate some time ago, and many many international agencies showed that Hamas did not, or at least find no proof of using human shield, while Israel has been condemn, with many picture, on their use of palestinian civilians in war as human shield and for other duty (like checking bags for bombs).
That you are ignorant of all those facts does not make those simple and false argument "not propaganda". I add that, when you think about the fact that Israel even paid Youtube for advertising on their attack on gaza, and when you think about how much israeli high officials are on TV, or how the IDF itself communicate and how the media take their information without any discussions on it, then I think it is safe to say "propaganda". Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not? Edit: Spelling I'm not justifying the attacks on civilians, because those are crime, but as to the reason why they are hitting civilian area it is pretty simple : hamas' rockets are low grade, that hit randomly, with no sophisticated target system. So it's not so much that hamas is targetting civilian and much more that they launch rockets and hope it land somewhere in Israel. And you don't think that is equally crazy? Yes ! So let's put restriction on Israel just like we do on Gaza ! Resolve this shit and stop supporting the terrorist state versus the terrorist para military and islamic group. On July 30 2014 23:19 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 30 2014 23:15 Donger wrote:On July 30 2014 22:15 Jockmcplop wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433Mr Gunness from the UN Relief and Works Agency (UNRWA) told the BBC that Israel had been told 17 times that the school in the Jabaliya refugee camp was housing the displaced.
"The last time was hours before the fatal attack," he said.
"Our initial assessment is that it was Israeli artillery that hit our school." That's some pretty direct evidence that Israel is in no way trying to avoid civilian casualties. 17 times, they were warned that the shelter was holding civilians made homeless. From the BBC showing Israel dropping leaflets warning Palestinians to leave the area within Gaza city. Great so then they target a shelter that they know for sure is full of civilians that they have made homeless. All praise merciful Israel. Half of gaza is now a buffer zone no-go area. How about neither because they both suck. Neither side gets my support and I hope they can get done with their stupid pissing match so everyone else can get back to their normal lives. But you know that the US support Israel in every shit they do right ? You know that you gove I don't know how much billion dollars to Israel every year ? You know that in every operation from Israel the US give a discretionary help, in dollars or in weapons ? In the mean time, Gaza is surviving with humanitarian aid, humanitarian aid that got cancelled as soon as Hamas got elected. And do not forget, there are people suffering on one side, innocent people. That's my government, not me. They do lots of shit I don't approve of. We also have trade agreements with Russia, who we are not fans of right now. Also, if your a modern nation in the world and have to choose between supporting Hamas or Israel and which one benefits you most, it isn't really a contest. Foreign police isn't dictated by morals or what is justified or not. It dictated by pure pragmatism. You see that's a strategic mistake because Israel is at the core of every problem in the region, with their colonialist ideology, and has had many reckless actions (take the exemple of the bombing and killing in Iran that the Mossad did using the CIA name) while the arabo muslim world is an unstable area that has not only many ressources that the US needs. Not to mention islamism can harm the US as it did in the past. The US would greatly gain from a more balanced positioning in this conflict, in terms of global image and stability with its partner in the middle east. There are talk in the US to give a financial aid to Israel. US Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says Israel urgently needs more financial aid from the United States for its offensive against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/28/373165/israel-in-urgent-need-of-money-from-us-reid/ I don't really think its Israel's fault that they are the cause of every problem in the area though. That's a historical issue ie they should never have been there in the first place. You have my glorious government to thank for that one.
Maybe, but in terms of image Israel is at the core of every problem.
There have been a killing in France some years ago : a stupid young guy (Mohammed Merah) killed kids in a school, then some military and some other guy. He argued that he did it for the death in gaza...
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On July 30 2014 23:44 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 30 2014 23:42 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 30 2014 23:37 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:34 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 23:28 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:26 Plansix wrote:On July 30 2014 23:20 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:17 BlueSpace wrote:On July 30 2014 23:12 WhiteDog wrote:On July 30 2014 23:09 BlueSpace wrote:
[quote]
Hamas is firing rockets into civilians areas in Israel. That is an everyday fact. Please tell me how you explain that? They are not targeting military structures or anything that directly relates to the occupation. It is either an act of terror or a war crime, depending on how you view the organization. So I have a simple question for you. Do you think that Hamas is justified doing this or not?
Edit: Spelling I'm not justifying the attacks on civilians, because those are crime, but as to the reason why they are hitting civilian area it is pretty simple : hamas' rockets are low grade, that hit randomly, with no sophisticated target system. So it's not so much that hamas is targetting civilian and much more that they launch rockets and hope it land somewhere in Israel. And you don't think that is equally crazy? Yes ! So let's put restriction on Israel just like we do on Gaza ! Resolve this shit and stop supporting the terrorist state versus the terrorist para military and islamic group. On July 30 2014 23:19 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 30 2014 23:15 Donger wrote:On July 30 2014 22:15 Jockmcplop wrote:http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-28558433[quote] That's some pretty direct evidence that Israel is in no way trying to avoid civilian casualties. 17 times, they were warned that the shelter was holding civilians made homeless. From the BBC showing Israel dropping leaflets warning Palestinians to leave the area within Gaza city. Great so then they target a shelter that they know for sure is full of civilians that they have made homeless. All praise merciful Israel. Half of gaza is now a buffer zone no-go area. How about neither because they both suck. Neither side gets my support and I hope they can get done with their stupid pissing match so everyone else can get back to their normal lives. But you know that the US support Israel in every shit they do right ? You know that you gove I don't know how much billion dollars to Israel every year ? You know that in every operation from Israel the US give a discretionary help, in dollars or in weapons ? In the mean time, Gaza is surviving with humanitarian aid, humanitarian aid that got cancelled as soon as Hamas got elected. And do not forget, there are people suffering on one side, innocent people. That's my government, not me. They do lots of shit I don't approve of. We also have trade agreements with Russia, who we are not fans of right now. Also, if your a modern nation in the world and have to choose between supporting Hamas or Israel and which one benefits you most, it isn't really a contest. Foreign police isn't dictated by morals or what is justified or not. It dictated by pure pragmatism. You see that's a strategic mistake because Israel is at the core of every problem in the region, with their colonialist ideology, and has had many reckless actions (take the exemple of the bombing and killing in Iran that the Mossad did using the CIA name) while the arabo muslim world is an unstable area that has not only many ressources that the US needs. Not to mention islamism can harm the US as it did in the past. The US would greatly gain from a more balanced positioning in this conflict, in terms of global image and stability with its partner in the middle east. There are talk in the US to give a financial aid to Israel. US Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid says Israel urgently needs more financial aid from the United States for its offensive against Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2014/07/28/373165/israel-in-urgent-need-of-money-from-us-reid/ I don't really think its Israel's fault that they are the cause of every problem in the area though. That's a historical issue ie they should never have been there in the first place. You have my glorious government to thank for that one. Maybe, but in terms of image Israel is at the core of every problem. There have been a killing in France some years ago : a stupid young guy (Mohammed Merah) killed kids in a school, then some military and some other guy. He argued that he did it for the death in gaza...
A crazy guy in NY kills a shit ton of people because he claimed his dog told him to do it. That doesn't really prove a lot.
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EPT
