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Malaysian airliner shot down over Eastern Ukraine - Page 34

Forum Index > General Forum
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In order to maintain some kind of respectable thread quality and to show some respect for those who lost friends in this tragedy, we're forced to enact a hard line policy for this thread. Any posts holding an opinion on who is responsible or making an accusation that is not held by neutral media will be banned. Policy is in effect from page 27 onwards.

Specifically, citing a Ukrainian or Russian source for your claims is going to get you banned. Opinions/facts/accusations arising from neutral media sources (i.e. media whose country of origin is not Ukraine, Russia or one of its puppet states) will be permitted. This policy extends to all forms of media; if a youtube video or picture has not come through a neutral media source then don't post it or you'll be banned. If you wish to discuss this policy please use this website feedback thread.

Updated policy on aggressive posting and insults.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
July 18 2014 13:11 GMT
#661
On July 18 2014 18:37 zeo wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2014 18:29 WiggyB wrote:
On July 18 2014 18:24 zeo wrote:
On July 18 2014 17:51 Mithhaike wrote:
On July 18 2014 17:43 zeo wrote:
On July 18 2014 17:27 WiggyB wrote:
On July 18 2014 17:04 LegalLord wrote:

What about the launchers themselves, at least the ones you are familiar with? Are those as reliable as the missiles, or do they get buggy?


I'm assuming that the Russian military had the same kind of standards when it comes to weaponry.
These systems are heavily tested at great expense. I've heard of cases of missiles exploding on the launcher, or exploding in mid air. But never heard of a case where a missile had hit a target other than the one specified.
There have been mistakes, but always human error as far as I am aware.
And after a quick Google on the BUK. It's been in service since 79. Thats over 35 years. If it was unreliable they wouldn't still be using it.

If you are interested in missile tests. YouTube "Sea Dart misfire HMS Gloucester". I would provide the link, but I'm on work Internet at the moment.
Don't worry no one was hurt, and everyone laughs about it now


The BUK's captured were incomplete at best. Though I doubt people watched the video posted earlier about surface-to-air missile overhaul procedure, if someone had seen it they would know the high amount of calibration needed when anything is changed or removed etc. from the system. They would need special facilities and equipment as well as a few test fires to calibrate the thing.

People need to stop jumping the gun and blaming whatever side for whatever reason. Just look at the facts.

I would like to enquire as to your source that the missiles captured were incomplete. From my understanding, the separatists claimed the missiles were working, while Kiev said it's not.

So you believe what Kiev says now? From your history you were highly skeptical of anything from Kiev, convenient timing to switch sides.
Like you said, look at the facts. Your postings has indicated that you have chosen a side, and your cherry picking of convenient "facts" are indicative too. Sorry you lack credibility IMO.

Well here is a statement (from today) from the Prosecutor General of Ukraine that rebel forces had not captured any BUK systems. Though its a Russian source citing the Prosecutor General of Ukraine it should be easy to find a Ukrainian (or any other) source for the same thing.
http://news.mail.ru/politics/18918028/?frommail=1
+ Show Spoiler +
После того, как был сбит пассажирский самолет, военные доложили президенту, что у террористов нет наших ракетных комплексов “Бук” и С-300, — сообщил генпрокурор. — Захвата этого вооружения не было

"After having been hit by a passenger plane, the military reported to the President that the terrorists have our missile systems" Buk "and C-300 - said the prosecutor general. - There was no capture of these weapons. "



edit: Here we go: https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukraine/ukrainian-prosecutor-general-says-militants-did-not-seize-ukrainian-air-defense-launchers-356619.html

Ukrainian prosecutor general says militants did not seize Ukrainian air defense launchers

In order to maintain some kind of respectable thread quality and to show some respect for those who lost friends in this tragedy, we're forced to enact a hard line policy for this thread. Any posts holding an opinion on who is responsible or making an accusation that is not held by neutral media will be banned. Policy is in effect from page 27 onwards.

Specifically, citing a Ukrainian or Russian source for your claims is going to get you banned. Opinions/facts/accusations arising from neutral media sources (i.e. media whose country of origin is not Ukraine, Russia or one of its puppet states) will be permitted. This policy extends to all forms of media; if a youtube video or picture has not come through a neutral media source then don't post it or you'll be banned. If you wish to discuss this policy please use this website feedback thread.


I believe you are in violation sir!.

Of course they are going to say that

If you have both sides reporting on the same thing in the same way thats just more conformation that the news is true. No?

Elaborate why 'of course they would say that'? Why would Kiev deliberately lie? In your own opinion.


Oh, the irony, zeo arguing that Ukrainian military wouldn't lie. There are high-ranked generals jobs at stakes, and other officers as well. People would go at lengths not to admit losing high-tech equipment that might be used to shoot down Ukrainian airforces at any latitudes. And if they were forced to acknowledge it, they would be very likely to report it was not operational anyway.
hzflank
Profile Joined August 2011
United Kingdom2991 Posts
July 18 2014 13:26 GMT
#662
On July 18 2014 20:38 pellejohnson wrote:
Has there been any logical comment about how the rebels would have been able to use such a highly sophisticated Anti-Air system as a Buk? Is it just dumb luck that they had a person who had previously been in the army and assigned to such a system? I can't see someone using a system like that with trial and error


It depends where they got it from. If they got it from Russia then they would of had training from russian military. This is not an anti-russia statement, there is precident for it in other places. For example, the UK military trained rebels in Libya when we gave them equipment, and I think the US did in Syria?

If they got it from Ukraine then they might have ex military personnel who are familiar with the equipment. The might even of just asked friends who are military, etc.
nunez
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Norway4003 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 13:48:48
July 18 2014 13:28 GMT
#663
the us intelligence circus will now commence in vector analysis, whereby they blindfold themselves and collectively throw a vector (dart) at a spinning globus (syria is crossed out). the name of the darted country will then be whispered from creature to creature (pets etc included) inside the pentagon until kerry's ear happens to be on the receiving end.

in response john, the chief clown, slam dunks himself and the now terribly garbled word into the spinning printing presses as proof that the rebels did it, and that putin is personally responsible, producing lots of hot air for western consumption, and maybe a sanction or two for putin to calmly shrug off, suave as usual.

in closing a senile george bush will hold an adward ceremony and give out medals to the people directly and indirectly responsible for the accident, attending audience (pets etc included), and himself twice. the intelligence circus cross out eastern ukraine from the globus and start waiting for the next opportunity to put on a putin performance.

User was temp banned for this post.
conspired against by a confederacy of dunces.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
July 18 2014 13:32 GMT
#664
On July 18 2014 19:56 Sjokola wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2014 19:48 TheBloodyDwarf wrote:
On July 18 2014 19:24 Sjokola wrote:
Holy shit man... I don't really understand why airlines would take any risk in flying over conflict zones.

Edit:
A Russian BUK missile launcher has been seen in separatist occupied territory. They don't say who's seen it. The BUK has the ability to take out planes at high altitudes. I "could" have been used to shoot it down. But there's no proof for it. Also Dutch ministry (at press conference) now also says it's likely that the airplane has been shot down.

Source:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/ukraine/10974861/Malaysian-Airlines-crash-Russian-Mobile-missile-launcher-could-be-responsible.html
The BUK
http://rt.com/files/online-exclusive/galleries/tanks/anti-air-buk-missile-system/ttt_img_0599-2.jpg

Yeah, just read ealy pages of this thread. There is pictures and video of buk missime launcher in rebel territory.

Ow sorry. I didn't look through all the pages

You don't have to, nothing to apoligise for.
CeriseCherries
Profile Blog Joined May 2011
6170 Posts
July 18 2014 13:42 GMT
#665
On July 18 2014 22:28 nunez wrote:
the us intelligence circus will now commence in vector analysis, whereby they blindfold themselves and collectively throw a vector (dart) at a spinning globus (syria is crossed out). the name of the darted country will then be whispered from creature to creature (pets etc included) inside the pentagon until kerry's ear happens to be on the receiving end.

in response john, the chief clown, slam dunks himself and the now terribly garbled word into the spinning printing presses as proof that the rebels did it, and that putin is personally responsible, producing lots of hot air for western consumption, and maybe a sanction or two for putin to calmly shrug off, suave as usual.

in closing a senile george bush will hold an adward ceremony and give out medals to the people directly and indirectly responsible for the accident, attending audience (pets etc included), and himself twice. the intelligence circus cross out eastern ukraine from the map and start waiting for the next opportunity to put on a putin performance.


i read this twice i swear and i have no idea what is being conveyed
Remember, no matter where you go, there you are.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
July 18 2014 13:44 GMT
#666
On July 18 2014 22:28 nunez wrote:
the us intelligence circus will now commence in vector analysis, whereby they blindfold themselves and collectively throw a vector (dart) at a spinning globus (syria is crossed out). the name of the darted country will then be whispered from creature to creature (pets etc included) inside the pentagon until kerry's ear happens to be on the receiving end.

in response john, the chief clown, slam dunks himself and the now terribly garbled word into the spinning printing presses as proof that the rebels did it, and that putin is personally responsible, producing lots of hot air for western consumption, and maybe a sanction or two for putin to calmly shrug off, suave as usual.

in closing a senile george bush will hold an adward ceremony and give out medals to the people directly and indirectly responsible for the accident, attending audience (pets etc included), and himself twice. the intelligence circus cross out eastern ukraine from the map and start waiting for the next opportunity to put on a putin performance.

Don't respond to it, it will be taken care of.
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
July 18 2014 13:55 GMT
#667
Now, a preliminary classified U.S. intelligence analysis has concluded that the missile that hit Flight 17 most likely was fired by pro-Russian separatists inside eastern Ukraine, according to a U.S. defense official with direct access to the latest information.

http://edition.cnn.com/2014/07/18/world/europe/ukraine-malaysia-airlines-crash/index.html?hpt=hp_t1
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 14:33:59
July 18 2014 14:02 GMT
#668
On July 18 2014 21:59 Ghanburighan wrote:
Show nested quote +
Now, a preliminary classified U.S. intelligence analysis has concluded that the missile that hit Flight 17 most likely was fired by pro-Russian separatists inside eastern Ukraine, according to a U.S. defense official with direct access to the latest information.

The official declined to be identified because of the sensitivity of the information.
source



It was mentioned last page as the last post. Please, if you're going to post in the thread make sure it wasn't posted earlier. As I'm following this thread since it opened and it kinda sucks seeing repetitiveness. Everyone has the same theory, has the same "facts"... This thread should just be updated only for new updates and condolences at this point (imo).
Life?
TheBloodyDwarf
Profile Blog Joined March 2012
Finland7524 Posts
July 18 2014 14:05 GMT
#669
Finnish customs stopped big shipment to Ukraine. Shipment included alot missile controller system parts. This happend in end of june.
http://www.hs.fi/kotimaa/Suomen tulli pysäytti Ukrainaan matkalla olleen ohjusten ohjausjärjestelmän osia/a1405650564017
idk if it is related to this.
Fusilero: "I still can't believe he did that, like dude what the fuck there's fandom and then there's what he did like holy shit. I still see it when I close my eyes." <- reaction to the original drunk santa post which later caught on
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 14:21:29
July 18 2014 14:21 GMT
#670
SBU posted another collection of intercepted conversations from separatitsts. Lots of new information about BUK. Keep an eye for the translations in "neutral" sources.

User was temp banned for this post.
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-07-18 14:38:56
July 18 2014 14:38 GMT
#671
There are also photos in ukrainian sources of 1) what looks like to be a smoke from rocket taken a few minutes after launch near Torez; 2) a column including tanks and BUG near Sneznoe taken a few hours before the incident. If anyone wants to have a look or confirm them in neutral press, PM.
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22211 Posts
July 18 2014 14:39 GMT
#672
How easy would it be to run voice matching on those alleged intercepted phonecalls?
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
FueledUpAndReadyToGo
Profile Blog Joined March 2013
Netherlands30548 Posts
July 18 2014 14:40 GMT
#673
Dutch prime minister: "If this was indeed an assault, I (we) will not rest until the perpetrators are brought to justice"
Neosteel Enthusiast
whiteLotus
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
1833 Posts
July 18 2014 14:40 GMT
#674
On July 18 2014 23:39 ahswtini wrote:
How easy would it be to run voice matching on those alleged intercepted phonecalls?



going all CSI in this shit huh ? lol
The bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
July 18 2014 14:43 GMT
#675
On July 18 2014 23:40 whiteLotus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2014 23:39 ahswtini wrote:
How easy would it be to run voice matching on those alleged intercepted phonecalls?



going all CSI in this shit huh ? lol

what's so funny about that?
whiteLotus
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
1833 Posts
July 18 2014 14:48 GMT
#676
On July 18 2014 23:43 Cheerio wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2014 23:40 whiteLotus wrote:
On July 18 2014 23:39 ahswtini wrote:
How easy would it be to run voice matching on those alleged intercepted phonecalls?



going all CSI in this shit huh ? lol

what's so funny about that?


how exactly do you imagine voice matching working here?
The bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22211 Posts
July 18 2014 14:48 GMT
#677
On July 18 2014 23:40 whiteLotus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2014 23:39 ahswtini wrote:
How easy would it be to run voice matching on those alleged intercepted phonecalls?



going all CSI in this shit huh ? lol

That wasn't a fucking joke.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
whiteLotus
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
1833 Posts
July 18 2014 14:50 GMT
#678
On July 18 2014 23:48 ahswtini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2014 23:40 whiteLotus wrote:
On July 18 2014 23:39 ahswtini wrote:
How easy would it be to run voice matching on those alleged intercepted phonecalls?



going all CSI in this shit huh ? lol

That wasn't a fucking joke.


no need to get mad, watch less TV there is no super mega voice database where everyones voice is stored ,this is real life not CSI miami ))))))

User was warned for this post
The bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame
ahswtini
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Northern Ireland22211 Posts
July 18 2014 14:50 GMT
#679
On July 18 2014 23:48 whiteLotus wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2014 23:43 Cheerio wrote:
On July 18 2014 23:40 whiteLotus wrote:
On July 18 2014 23:39 ahswtini wrote:
How easy would it be to run voice matching on those alleged intercepted phonecalls?



going all CSI in this shit huh ? lol

what's so funny about that?


how exactly do you imagine voice matching working here?

To confirm the identities of those people speaking in the phonecalls? I don't know how many existing recordings there are of Bezler and Geranin. Voice recognition was used a lot to verify the authenticity of bin Laden videos.
"As I've said, balance isn't about strategies or counters, it's about probability and statistics." - paralleluniverse
whiteLotus
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
1833 Posts
July 18 2014 14:52 GMT
#680
On July 18 2014 23:50 ahswtini wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 18 2014 23:48 whiteLotus wrote:
On July 18 2014 23:43 Cheerio wrote:
On July 18 2014 23:40 whiteLotus wrote:
On July 18 2014 23:39 ahswtini wrote:
How easy would it be to run voice matching on those alleged intercepted phonecalls?



going all CSI in this shit huh ? lol

what's so funny about that?


how exactly do you imagine voice matching working here?

To confirm the identities of those people speaking in the phonecalls? I don't know how many existing recordings there are of Bezler and Geranin. Voice recognition was used a lot to verify the authenticity of bin Laden videos.



well thats cuz hes motherfucking bin laden not some random dude who went rogue soldier
The bird of Hermes is my name, eating my wings to make me tame
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