Malaysian airliner shot down over Eastern Ukraine - Page 29

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Updated policy on aggressive posting and insults.

zev318

Canada4306 Posts

July 18 2014 02:42 GMT

#561

On July 18 2014 11:31 hp.Shell wrote:
I just hope we (I live in the US) don't get involved in this. Our economy is already broken many times over.

kinda late for that

AnachronisticAnarchy

United States2957 Posts

July 18 2014 02:45 GMT

#562

On July 18 2014 11:31 hp.Shell wrote:
I just hope we (I live in the US) don't get involved in this. Our economy is already broken many times over.

Anyone know what the military realities are over there? Mainly how easy it would be to accidentally kill civilians while going for military targets, on a scale of one to Gaza.
If they aren't basically building their bunkers out of orphans and pregnant women like Hamas loves to do, we might be able to bring the pain on the cheap. We are still hemorrhaging money in the Middle East, after all, so relative to that we might not spend so much money. I might be dead wrong, though.

FiWiFaKi

Canada9858 Posts

July 18 2014 02:46 GMT

#563

Hey guys, a little bit off topic, but how do you guys find your general news?

Do you guys google it? Do you guys have designated sites you visit, I really would appreciate some help getting news that is generally unbiased(well nothing is unbiased, but you know what I mean), covers the important things, and just really goes straight down to the facts, and to the reality of the situation. I know I still need to exercise caution with everything I read, but I just feel that 80% of the articles I read are a complete waste of time, or sugar coated with no content of substance.

Any list you recommend for where to visit? Or is it simply a painstaking process to find what you want? On teamliquid I know Al-Jazeera is frequently praised, but yeah... Just any general tips would be super great, thanks!

ruffstyle89

41 Posts

July 18 2014 02:47 GMT

#564

On July 18 2014 11:09 AnachronisticAnarchy wrote:

Show nested quote +

On July 18 2014 10:53 MoonBear wrote:

On July 18 2014 09:59 sharkie wrote:

On July 18 2014 09:47 Sub40APM wrote:

On July 18 2014 09:44 lord_nibbler wrote:

On July 18 2014 09:33 Sub40APM wrote:

On July 18 2014 09:24 gruff wrote:

On July 18 2014 09:06 Boblion wrote:

On July 18 2014 05:45 Enzymatic wrote:
Malaysian Prime Minister in press conference:

"If it is concluded that the plane was indeed shot down, we insist that the perpetrators be brought to justice"

Yea sure. Like if they shot down the plane on purpose.
Best fly route ever... really smart to fly over Urkraine atm lol.

RIP.

So they shouldn't bring the perpetrators to justice? Or what exactly are you implying?

Also you can think what you will but it's common flight route for a lot of airlines, it's not like it's just Malaysian airlines that does it.

I think he was saying that although 90% of the blame is on the guy who pressed the fire key, or whatever majority of proportion, the people who designed airline routes over conflict zones for the sake of saving fuel costs are fools and should also share a bit of the blame.

Airlines still fly over Syria and sometimes Afghanistan!
You would expect from anybody, who is able to operate a mobile anti-aircraft rocket unit in coordination with an advanced radar detection unit, to be able to see the difference between a military transporter and a regular civilian airliner.

Yes they do, and they endanger their clients when they choose to fly over combat zones.

Again, you might say that the shareholders of those companies -- who benefit from the fuel price savings -- are right in gambling on the relatively unlikely chance of a surface to air missile strike or you might say they are wrong. But it is an argument that is also worth having, is saving 50-100 dollars on a airline ticket worth a 4% chance of getting blown up by a war zone missile? Should airlines have to publish not just the cost of the tickets but also their planned route and the contingencies so an average customer can select their flights better?

You do know half the cost of a ticket comes from the airport tax. Not avoiding Ukraine air space was a horrible and greedy mistake by Malaysian Air which cost 300 people their lives...

I am just going to cut off this speculation right here.

Malaysia Airlines confirmed that the usual flight route for the plane was earlier declared safe by the International Civil Aviation Organisation (ICAO). While the ICAO previous put out an alert about the airspace nearby, their press release also states that the loss of MH17 occurred outside of the Simferopol FIR (the potentially unsafe airspace). The Malaysian Airline jet also wasn't the only plane nearby when this happened.

Additionally, the European Cockpit Association has said that the route taken was the usual route a plane would take from Europe to South East Asia.

It is pretty hard to shoot down a passenger airline and because planes have transponders their location will be known to military forces. Airlines also generally file flight plans in advance stating what flight path they plan to take. Additionally it is not uncommon for planes to fly over what would generally be considered "hot spots" through approved flight corridors because those are just the approved routes to take. Opening up flightradar24 right now you can see a whole load of planes flying over Iraq and Afghanistan to name but a few countries.

So this is not some money grabbing conspiracy or anything. The airline followed all the rules and everything seemed fine and unfortunately a terrible terrible tragedy has happened that no one saw coming.

So either someone was very, very stupid (as in, rebels mistaking a civilian Boeing 777 for a military An-26 stupid) or someone was very, very evil (as in, Ukrainian military killing hundreds of people to get some of dat NATO firepower evil).

I was watching Fox News and they said US has ruled out Ukraine military as being at fault. They have not ruled out Russia or the pro russian separatists. They also have not ruled out where the location was (could have possibly been from Russia, mixed information) and they also aren't sure what was used to shoot it down. They've narrowed it down to what has been reported, and then some russian only missile. It still a bit of a process before they know exactly what happened. They still need to figure out where it came from, and what missile was used. The missile will be determined likely from what's left over from the wreck, and then hopefully the location of where it was shot from satellite. US and Russia will be looking over a lot of images trying to gain as much info as possible.

xAdra

Singapore1858 Posts

July 18 2014 03:05 GMT

#565

Malaysian here. What bad luck our airlines have

Jormundr

United States1678 Posts

July 18 2014 03:11 GMT

#566

On July 18 2014 11:46 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Hey guys, a little bit off topic, but how do you guys find your general news?

Do you guys google it? Do you guys have designated sites you visit, I really would appreciate some help getting news that is generally unbiased(well nothing is unbiased, but you know what I mean), covers the important things, and just really goes straight down to the facts, and to the reality of the situation. I know I still need to exercise caution with everything I read, but I just feel that 80% of the articles I read are a complete waste of time, or sugar coated with no content of substance.

Any list you recommend for where to visit? Or is it simply a painstaking process to find what you want? On teamliquid I know Al-Jazeera is frequently praised, but yeah... Just any general tips would be super great, thanks!

http://www.nationaljournal.com/ for news on america and really big world issues.
Their coverage on this can be found here.
Otherwise google search and learn how to read through bias and find the primary sources.

{CC}StealthBlue

United States41117 Posts

July 18 2014 03:12 GMT

#567

SYDNEY, July 18 (Reuters) - Australian Prime Minister Tony Abbott said on Friday it appeared that "Russian-backed rebels" were behind the shooting down of a Malaysia Airlines passenger jetliner over eastern Ukraine.

Source

Nyxisto

Germany6287 Posts

July 18 2014 03:18 GMT

#568

the big news sites aren't really biased. BBC, The Guardian, CNN, Spiegel, Reuters. The Independent, Al Jazeera all do a very good job and in retrospect have been proven to be trustworthy. Obviously they all tend to vary slightly in how they report but in general I think all of them usually try to not distort the picture.

synapse

China13814 Posts

July 18 2014 03:25 GMT

#569

this is all sorts of fucked up...

docvoc

United States5491 Posts

July 18 2014 04:00 GMT

#570

On July 18 2014 12:25 synapse wrote:
this is all sorts of fucked up...

This just sucks. It makes no sense and it's just so horrific that I don't even remotely understand the politics behind this specific move.

BigFan

TLADT24920 Posts

July 18 2014 04:01 GMT

#571

I was at work when I heard this news. It's just so sad. As Moonbear mentioned, it's just how it seems to have happened and all the precautions taken to avoid this kind of situation that make it worse. 298 lives were lost, just like that. Innocent people who were likely just going to see family, maybe vacation etc...

I really hope that both sides can come to an agreement and the perpetrators are punished for what they did although considering the situation, I have my doubts about this part

Condolences to the family who lost loved ones

On July 18 2014 07:29 Fuell wrote:
Friend of mine was on that plane... Unbelievable.

I'm sorry to hear this. My condolences for your loss

Scarecrow

Korea (South)9172 Posts

July 18 2014 04:02 GMT

#572

On July 18 2014 12:12 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:

Show nested quote +

Source

Why is anyone listening to Abbot on this? You might as well ask the president of FIFA what's going on. Besides the word 'appeared' makes it simply conjecture from someone renowned for making dumb statements on international affairs.

Deleted User 3420

24492 Posts

July 18 2014 04:22 GMT

#573

i get a lot of my news from reddit. then, if it's something controversial or if there is any facet of it that i have doubt about, i scour the comments. if there is bullshit or another side then it will have been posted about in the comments.

so basically i get my news/information from comment section of reddit

Falling

Canada11279 Posts

July 18 2014 04:29 GMT

#574

I've recently stumbled upon www.vox.com.
I like it so far, (especially due to the cross-linking), but still sussing it out.

DannyJ

United States5110 Posts

July 18 2014 04:43 GMT

#575

Ugh, looks like a lot of the people on board were on their way to an AIDS conference in Australia. One of them was one of the most prominent men in the AIDS research field.

People who spent their lives trying to help others

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/aids-researcher-joep-lange-confirmed-among-dead-in-malaysia-jet-shoot-down/2014/07/17/4869c6a2-0e2d-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

Integra

Sweden5626 Posts

July 18 2014 04:46 GMT

#576

On July 18 2014 13:43 DannyJ wrote:
Ugh, looks like a lot of the people on board were on their way to an AIDS conference in Australia. One of them was one of the most prominent men in the AIDS research field.

People who spent their lives trying to help others

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/aids-researcher-joep-lange-confirmed-among-dead-in-malaysia-jet-shoot-down/2014/07/17/4869c6a2-0e2d-11e4-8c9a-923ecc0c7d23_story.html

They said it could had been as much as 100 of the passengers that were headed to the conference. Most of them were scientists and scholars.

Shield

Bulgaria4824 Posts

July 18 2014 04:49 GMT

#577

On July 18 2014 13:29 Falling wrote:
I've recently stumbled upon www.vox.com.
I like it so far, (especially due to the cross-linking), but still sussing it out.

I don't know how good Vox is but I have found this about rebels:

"We warned you, stay away from our skies," the message said in Russian, according to translations posted by Russian-speaking reporters. The message was posted at 5:50 pm local time on Thursday; the flight had crashed at 5:15 pm. The post included two videos that appeared to show a large explosion. One of them is still viewable on YouTube.

Source: http://www.vox.com/2014/7/17/5913089/did-this-ukrainian-rebel-commander-take-credit-for-shooting-down-the

LegalLord

United Kingdom13775 Posts

July 18 2014 04:51 GMT

#578

It really depends - each one may be biased depending on the situation, and US media outlets are well-known for occasionally being paid propaganda sources. For a conflict like this, BBC is pretty good (albeit it doesn't report much), but I wouldn't use it for news about, say, Israel.

Just pay attention to which news sources will have a conflict of interest based on where their country is from. If everyone is biased, look for ones with some journalistic integrity from both sides. Unfortunately for this one that's difficult (most are in Russian, RT is a bit sensationalist rather than reliable), so I would just look for news agencies that come from countries with not much of a stake in this.

Mithhaike

Singapore2759 Posts

July 18 2014 05:01 GMT

#579

I use Channelnewsasia.com. It's based out of Singapore mostly.

It's a news network that focuses on Asia views and asia coverage. Pretty much the only region that isn't extremely biased to either side imo, since we aren't directly involved. Except for now, Malaysia being dragged into the Ukraine conflict by accident.

ticklishmusic

United States15977 Posts

July 18 2014 05:03 GMT

#580

Is it possible that Twitter will be able to release the deleted tweets by the pro-Russian separatists? Do screenshots of those tweets exist?

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