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Opera
France469 Posts
On August 09 2013 00:48 sickless wrote: haha, personally i don't have anything about lesbians since i'm a man haha :D So why shouldn't heterosexual Russian women be able to enjoy the view of two men kissing ? | ||
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Aeroplaneoverthesea
United Kingdom1977 Posts
On August 09 2013 01:01 Opera wrote: So why shouldn't heterosexual Russian women be able to enjoy the view of two men kissing ? I can't imagine this guy has the highest opinion of women either. | ||
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Hattori_Hanzo
Singapore1229 Posts
On August 09 2013 00:12 ComaDose wrote: maybe we should tell him that thousands of years ago many of the leaders were openly gay Only the Carthan, Roman, Turkish and Greek city states and later empires were. Turkey and many parts of Middle East still practices sexual pedastry. Not Mahajapit empire, All Chinese Dynasties, All Indian Sultanates, Ethiopian kingdom, Nepalese, Thai, Vietnamese, Burmese empire, Korean, Norse Vikings, Pre-2000 British Empire, Spanish Empire, pre-2000AD Dutch Kingdom, French kingdom, German Kaisers. These are historical facts, princes losing their right to the throne merely on suspicion of being effeminate. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
On August 09 2013 01:06 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Only the Carthan, Roman, Turkish and Greek city states and later empires were. Turkey and many parts of Middle East still practices sexual pedastry. Not Mahajapit empire, All Chinese Dynasties, All Indian Sultanates, Ethiopian kingdom, Nepalese, Thai, Vietnamese, Burmese empire, Korean, Norse Vikings, Pre-2000 British Empire, Spanish Empire, pre-2000AD Dutch Kingdom, French kingdom, German Kaisers. These are historical facts, princes losing their right to the throne merely on suspicion of being effeminate. The list of European kings who were "effeminate" in dress and manner is a pretty long one... name a prince losing his rights merely over a suspicion of being effeminate because I read European history pretty extensively with a focus on the Middle Ages to the modern era (circa 1700) and I've never read of an example of a prince being deposed because the nobles thought he was teh gay. Edward II of England was more or less openly bisexual, he ruled as King of England and only got murdered because he was a mouth-breathing incompetent (being bisexual didn't help but it wasn't the main reason). Also maybe Christ the Redeemer shouldn't be Troofering around (false flag attacks lol) while trying the "but Joey broke two windows I only broke one!" argument. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On August 09 2013 00:48 sickless wrote: haha, personally i don't have anything about lesbians since i'm a man haha :D You are the epitome of someone who wants to create a society with only themselves in mind. I am not sure if I can even connect such a mindset to ethnocentrism, nationalism, or traditionalism it just sounds like to me that you are narcissistic. | ||
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NotR
17 Posts
My hope is that a transition to humanism and reason is inevitable. That its only a question of time.. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On August 09 2013 01:06 Hattori_Hanzo wrote: Only the Carthan, Roman, Turkish and Greek city states and later empires were. Turkey and many parts of Middle East still practices sexual pedastry. Not Mahajapit empire, All Chinese Dynasties, All Indian Sultanates, Ethiopian kingdom, Nepalese, Thai, Vietnamese, Burmese empire, Korean, Norse Vikings, Pre-2000 British Empire, Spanish Empire, pre-2000AD Dutch Kingdom, French kingdom, German Kaisers. These are historical facts, princes losing their right to the throne merely on suspicion of being effeminate. sorry is your point that 4 is not many and that homophobia is also old? | ||
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docvoc
United States5491 Posts
On August 09 2013 01:24 ComaDose wrote: sorry is your point that 4 is not many and that homophobia is also old? Yeah, that's what you should get out of it. People like to think that homophobia popped out of christianity and the bible and then they reference the greeks and the romans as "enlightened" societies that accepted homosexuality. Of course that is far from the truth, and most all cultures had some kind of a ban on homosexuality throughout the ages. Hating on gay people isn't new, and society being open to homosexuality in the world is far from the truth. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On August 09 2013 01:33 docvoc wrote: Yeah, that's what you should get out of it. People like to think that homophobia popped out of christianity and the bible and then they reference the greeks and the romans as "enlightened" societies that accepted homosexuality. Of course that is far from the truth, and most all cultures had some kind of a ban on homosexuality throughout the ages. Hating on gay people isn't new, and society being open to homosexuality in the world is far from the truth. but wern't the greeks and the romans societies that accepted homosexuality? and considering most people argue with equal human rights wouldn't they be enlightened? and this acceptance in Rome did end with the church. but yeah there are people that oppress people other places in history just as far back i'm sure. | ||
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On August 09 2013 01:36 ComaDose wrote: but wern't the greeks and the romans societies that accepted homosexuality? and considering most people argue with equal human rights wouldn't they be enlightened? and this acceptance in Rome did end with the church. but yeah there are people that oppress people other places in history just as far back i'm sure. I would disagree. From what I read about homosexuality in ancient times, pederasty was tolerated, not accepted, and homosexuality between two adult males was just viewed with disgust. And you were seen as disgusting, especially if you were the person receiving. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On August 09 2013 01:39 Shiragaku wrote: I would disagree. From what I read about homosexuality in ancient times, pederasty was tolerated, not accepted, and homosexuality between two adult males was just viewed with disgust. damn so there was never a time in history that gays were not oppressed thats a bummer | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 09 2013 01:39 Shiragaku wrote: I would disagree. From what I read about homosexuality in ancient times, pederasty was tolerated, not accepted, and homosexuality between two adult males was just viewed with disgust. In general, tolerance was not a thing people did back then, of really anything. Rulers got away being being homosexual because they ruled and not one could stop them. The same with the wealthy. On August 09 2013 01:41 ComaDose wrote: damn so there was never a time in history that gays were not oppressed thats a bummer If it makes you feel better, everyone was oppressed back then. They didn't really focus the oppression of the ages, it just sucked for everyone. | ||
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zomgE
498 Posts
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On August 09 2013 01:41 ComaDose wrote: damn so there was never a time in history that gays were not oppressed thats a bummer There are some very interesting stories about homosexuality in ancient China. I would not be that pessimistic. | ||
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theodorus12
Switzerland129 Posts
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On August 09 2013 02:10 theodorus12 wrote: I don't see the problem. Their country, their laws. Homosexuals are still allowed to participate in the Olympics, only the annoying parades have been banned and this is a good thing. Why do I even try? | ||
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shinosai
United States1577 Posts
You're talking to one of the most homophobic people on TL, which you can see if you go through his post history. You'd probably be best off not trying. | ||
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DeepElemBlues
United States5079 Posts
And of course the Greeks and the Romans were a small part of the world and a small part of history overall but they've had a huge influence on Western society and there's more available information about their societies than others so we focus on them. And of course again these rules were for the middle and upper classes, depending on the views of the rulers the commoners were either placed under a more stringent standard or were ignored as long as they didn't riot. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11904 Posts
Firstly, why does it matter. The fact that you are able to post on this forum pretty much proves that almost all you do in life is unnatural (as much as one can actually define that unspecific term). Your computer is unnatural. Your phone is unnatural. Whatever you do at your job is almost certainly unnatural. Your house is unnatural. You cook your unnatural food in an unnatural way. The clothing you wear is unnatural. If you look around right now, there is a high chance that everything you see is unnatural. Secondly, it is not. Evolution does not make mistakes, simply because there is no goal beyond survival/reproduction. If a trait continues to exist, it is apparently not affecting that too negatively, because otherwise it would not continue to exist. With something as widespread and continuous through history as homosexuality, it apparently does not have a negative impact on the survival of the family, otherwise it would have been extinct quite a while ago. There are multiple theories as to why that might be the case, but the major one is kinship selection. Basically, it might be advantageous for a family to have a limited amount of gays in it. There is for example statistic proof that the female relatives of gay males on average have more children. Of course the gay people themselves don't reproduce, but if they increase the chances of survival of the children of their relatives by taking care of them, that trait can still be evolutionary useful, and the "gay gene" or whatever you want to call it gets passed on through their kin. | ||
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theodorus12
Switzerland129 Posts
On August 09 2013 02:13 shinosai wrote: You're talking to one of the most homophobic people on TL, which you can see if you go through his post history. You'd probably be best off not trying. Going around and insulting people, but it's ok. No one would expect more from you. | ||
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