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On August 08 2013 00:03 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 00:00 TheSubtleArt wrote:On August 07 2013 23:47 shinosai wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. Gay people reproduce as well as everyone else if you don't restrict their right to be parents. What...? Being gay does not prevent you from raising children or getting pregant by less tradional means(aka, science).
aka the stuff russia openly ignores lol. "burning hearts and burying them" (words of a russian politic) doesn't seem scientific reasonable.
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On August 07 2013 23:46 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. How will this ever be a problem? How will more openly gay people EVER stop people from having kids? Its not like men are going to leave their wives on mass once they know they are can be openly gay. This could be the worst argument ever.
More gay people will not stay in the closet and thus not go into a traditional marriage and have children? Obviously gay people don't stop straight people from having kids.
This likely is the worst rebuttle ever.
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United States42696 Posts
On August 08 2013 00:01 ETisME wrote:everyone seems to mis-reading this. It's not about population growth or equal right limited freedom etc Russia letting snowden to stay resident in the country is a public slap to the US, even if Putin said something like don't leak anything about our friend, the US and you can stay. Basically the US needs something as a retribution, this is one of them. The cleverness of this is actually Russia is NOT rejecting the gays, they are merely saying no to propaganda. This way, even though Russia will be the ugly man here, they aren't gonna get that bad of an image. And the US will be slapping its own face if it takes about Russia is limiting freedom of speech because of Snowden case US has already been humiliating itself a lot because of Snowden, including forcing a presidential plane of another country to land because of a false report that Snowden might be on the plane http://edition.cnn.com/2013/07/02/world/americas/bolivia-presidential-plane
Or it could be that discriminating against homosexuals is objectively wrong, regardless of what is going on with Snowden. And institutional homophobia in Russia goes far beyond this, although this law defines anything that indicates homosexuality might be a valid life choice as propaganda which is pretty horrific. It's indefensible, it's immoral, it's certainly not protecting children and it has literally nothing to do with Snowden.
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On August 07 2013 23:43 Denda Reloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. and how could the "outward-ness of gays" possibly affect str8 couples to produce more human larva (babies or whatever)? oppressing gays won't change the birthrate, it will drop faster than taylors panties anyway. imho they search for the solution in wrong places.
The outwardness of gays means those people who come out of the closet wouldn't have children? I really thought I could give people on TL the benefit of the doubt and not explain the most simple arguments?
Inb4 I get attacked for hating gays when I'm just pointing out a possible Russian P.O.V.
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On August 08 2013 00:12 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 23:46 Plansix wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. How will this ever be a problem? How will more openly gay people EVER stop people from having kids? Its not like men are going to leave their wives on mass once they know they are can be openly gay. This could be the worst argument ever. More gay people will not stay in the closet and thus not go into a traditional marriage and have children? Obviously gay people don't stop straight people from having kids. This likely is the worst rebuttle ever.
Because you provide no evidence to back up those facts. Your argument is "If they can be openly gay, they won't fuck women and then we won't get babies. Our population problem will continue due to this."
Russia's population problem has nothing to do with gay anything. Maybe they should work on having straight couples have more than 1 child.
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On August 08 2013 00:14 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 23:43 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. and how could the "outward-ness of gays" possibly affect str8 couples to produce more human larva (babies or whatever)? oppressing gays won't change the birthrate, it will drop faster than taylors panties anyway. imho they search for the solution in wrong places. The outwardness of gays means those people who come out of the closet wouldn't have children? I really thought I could give people on TL the benefit of the doubt and not explain the most simple arguments? Inb4 I get attacked for hating gays when I'm just pointing out a possible Russian P.O.V.
so u think that "most" of the gays marry a woman? they stay alone their whole life and die without any children, thought of that? why should gay ppl be forced to have sexual intercourse with someone they don't want to? or why should thay be forced to have children at all? would u like if the government would force you to fuck someone u don't want to fuck or raise kids (u know science if u want to avoid intercourse) u don't want to have? yes maybe it's like this in russia, but i think it's terribly wrong to force them to marry women, indirectly at least.
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On August 08 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 00:12 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:46 Plansix wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. How will this ever be a problem? How will more openly gay people EVER stop people from having kids? Its not like men are going to leave their wives on mass once they know they are can be openly gay. This could be the worst argument ever. More gay people will not stay in the closet and thus not go into a traditional marriage and have children? Obviously gay people don't stop straight people from having kids. This likely is the worst rebuttle ever. Because you provide no evidence to back up those facts. Your argument is "If they can be openly gay, they won't fuck women and then we won't get babies. Our population problem will continue due to this." Russia's population problem has nothing to do with gay anything. Maybe they should work on having straight couples have more than 1 child.
First of all I never claimed Russia's population problem "continues due to this" (although I did suggested it might be slightly exacerbated by it), so stop putting words in my mouth...
Openly gay couples have less children (through biological means, adoption doesn't count) than normal couples do. This is so obvious I'm not gonna waste time providing evidence.
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On August 08 2013 00:19 Denda Reloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 00:14 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:43 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. and how could the "outward-ness of gays" possibly affect str8 couples to produce more human larva (babies or whatever)? oppressing gays won't change the birthrate, it will drop faster than taylors panties anyway. imho they search for the solution in wrong places. The outwardness of gays means those people who come out of the closet wouldn't have children? I really thought I could give people on TL the benefit of the doubt and not explain the most simple arguments? Inb4 I get attacked for hating gays when I'm just pointing out a possible Russian P.O.V. so u think that "most" of the gays marry a woman? they stay alone their whole life and die without any children, thought of that? why should gay ppl be forced to have sexual intercourse with someone they don't want to? or why should thay be forced to have children at all? would u like if the government would force you to fuck someone u don't want to fuck or raise kids (u know science if u want to avoid intercourse) u don't want to have? yes maybe it's like this in russia, but i think it's terribly wrong to force them to marry women, indirectly at least.
Yes, in societies where homosexuality is frowned upon many gay people go into traditional marriages, I should be shocked this is not obvious to you, but given your lack of common sense shown earlier I can't say that I am.
Regardless, if a single gay person goes into a traditional marriage then your point is irrelevant.
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On August 08 2013 00:24 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 00:19 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 08 2013 00:14 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:43 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. and how could the "outward-ness of gays" possibly affect str8 couples to produce more human larva (babies or whatever)? oppressing gays won't change the birthrate, it will drop faster than taylors panties anyway. imho they search for the solution in wrong places. The outwardness of gays means those people who come out of the closet wouldn't have children? I really thought I could give people on TL the benefit of the doubt and not explain the most simple arguments? Inb4 I get attacked for hating gays when I'm just pointing out a possible Russian P.O.V. so u think that "most" of the gays marry a woman? they stay alone their whole life and die without any children, thought of that? why should gay ppl be forced to have sexual intercourse with someone they don't want to? or why should thay be forced to have children at all? would u like if the government would force you to fuck someone u don't want to fuck or raise kids (u know science if u want to avoid intercourse) u don't want to have? yes maybe it's like this in russia, but i think it's terribly wrong to force them to marry women, indirectly at least. Yes, in societies where homosexuality is frowned upon many gay people go into traditional marriages, I should be shocked this is no obvious to you, but given your lack of common sense shown earlier I can't say that I am. Regardless, if a single gay person goes into a traditional marriage then your point is irrelevant.
k sorry i expressed myself a bit wrong: so u think it's good and morally correct to force gays into going into traditional marriages because they are scared to live as they want? if yes then you're a disgusting human being.
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On August 08 2013 00:22 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 00:12 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:46 Plansix wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. How will this ever be a problem? How will more openly gay people EVER stop people from having kids? Its not like men are going to leave their wives on mass once they know they are can be openly gay. This could be the worst argument ever. More gay people will not stay in the closet and thus not go into a traditional marriage and have children? Obviously gay people don't stop straight people from having kids. This likely is the worst rebuttle ever. Because you provide no evidence to back up those facts. Your argument is "If they can be openly gay, they won't fuck women and then we won't get babies. Our population problem will continue due to this." Russia's population problem has nothing to do with gay anything. Maybe they should work on having straight couples have more than 1 child. First of all I never claimed Russia's population problem "continues due to this" (although I did suggested it might be exacerbated by it), so stop putting words in my mouth... Openly gay couples have less children (through biological means, adoption doesn't count) than normal couples do. This is so obvious I'm not gonna waste time providing evidence.
Its not obvious is any way. There is no proof that preventing someone from being openly gay causes them to enter into relationships with the opposite sex and have children. The few people who do enter those relationships are likely in denied as to their sexuality and would not live openly even if it as an option. And there is no evidence that the number of gay people in straight relationships is large enough to have any impact on population growth.
Your argument is beyond flawed. It can be boiled down to: Gay people have to be fucking someone. If they can't be in an open gay relationship, they must be fucking someone of the opposite sex. Fucking the opposite sex leads to babies. Openly gay couples means their will be less babies, because they will fuck fewer people of the opposite sex.
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On August 08 2013 00:26 Denda Reloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 00:24 Feartheguru wrote:On August 08 2013 00:19 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 08 2013 00:14 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:43 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. and how could the "outward-ness of gays" possibly affect str8 couples to produce more human larva (babies or whatever)? oppressing gays won't change the birthrate, it will drop faster than taylors panties anyway. imho they search for the solution in wrong places. The outwardness of gays means those people who come out of the closet wouldn't have children? I really thought I could give people on TL the benefit of the doubt and not explain the most simple arguments? Inb4 I get attacked for hating gays when I'm just pointing out a possible Russian P.O.V. so u think that "most" of the gays marry a woman? they stay alone their whole life and die without any children, thought of that? why should gay ppl be forced to have sexual intercourse with someone they don't want to? or why should thay be forced to have children at all? would u like if the government would force you to fuck someone u don't want to fuck or raise kids (u know science if u want to avoid intercourse) u don't want to have? yes maybe it's like this in russia, but i think it's terribly wrong to force them to marry women, indirectly at least. Yes, in societies where homosexuality is frowned upon many gay people go into traditional marriages, I should be shocked this is no obvious to you, but given your lack of common sense shown earlier I can't say that I am. Regardless, if a single gay person goes into a traditional marriage then your point is irrelevant. k sorry i expressed myself a bit wrong: so u think it's good and morally correct to force gays into going into traditional marriages because they are scared to live as they want? if yes then you're a disgusting human being.
Did you read my inb4? ITS IN THE POST YOU JUST QUOTED. I never said gays should be forced to do ANYTHING, I'm pointing out a possible reason the government might want to supress gay acceptance in Russian society, so don't go all holier than thou on me.
You know why I put that inb4? Because I knew from the shit you've been posting that once you realized your point makes no sense you would immediately resort to personal attacks.
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On August 08 2013 00:28 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 00:22 Feartheguru wrote:On August 08 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 00:12 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:46 Plansix wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. How will this ever be a problem? How will more openly gay people EVER stop people from having kids? Its not like men are going to leave their wives on mass once they know they are can be openly gay. This could be the worst argument ever. More gay people will not stay in the closet and thus not go into a traditional marriage and have children? Obviously gay people don't stop straight people from having kids. This likely is the worst rebuttle ever. Because you provide no evidence to back up those facts. Your argument is "If they can be openly gay, they won't fuck women and then we won't get babies. Our population problem will continue due to this." Russia's population problem has nothing to do with gay anything. Maybe they should work on having straight couples have more than 1 child. First of all I never claimed Russia's population problem "continues due to this" (although I did suggested it might be exacerbated by it), so stop putting words in my mouth... Openly gay couples have less children (through biological means, adoption doesn't count) than normal couples do. This is so obvious I'm not gonna waste time providing evidence. Its not obvious is any way. There is no proof that preventing someone from being openly gay causes them to enter into relationships with the opposite sex and have children. The few people who do enter those relationships are likely in denied as to their sexuality and would not live openly even if it as an option. Your argument is beyond flawed. It can be boiled down to: Gay people have to be fucking someone. If they can't be in an open gay relationship, they must be fucking someone of the opposite sex. Fucking the opposite sex leads to babies. Openly gay couples means their will be less babies, because they will fuck fewer people of the opposite sex.
Are you gonna strawman every post I make, if so just don't respond to this. (Or if it'd make you feel better you can get the last word, I'm ok with that)
In societies where homosexuality is not accepted, some of them DO enter into traditional marriages to avoid social stigma, or to feel like they are living a normal life. How is this anything but undeniable fact?
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On August 08 2013 00:28 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 00:26 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 08 2013 00:24 Feartheguru wrote:On August 08 2013 00:19 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 08 2013 00:14 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:43 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. and how could the "outward-ness of gays" possibly affect str8 couples to produce more human larva (babies or whatever)? oppressing gays won't change the birthrate, it will drop faster than taylors panties anyway. imho they search for the solution in wrong places. The outwardness of gays means those people who come out of the closet wouldn't have children? I really thought I could give people on TL the benefit of the doubt and not explain the most simple arguments? Inb4 I get attacked for hating gays when I'm just pointing out a possible Russian P.O.V. so u think that "most" of the gays marry a woman? they stay alone their whole life and die without any children, thought of that? why should gay ppl be forced to have sexual intercourse with someone they don't want to? or why should thay be forced to have children at all? would u like if the government would force you to fuck someone u don't want to fuck or raise kids (u know science if u want to avoid intercourse) u don't want to have? yes maybe it's like this in russia, but i think it's terribly wrong to force them to marry women, indirectly at least. Yes, in societies where homosexuality is frowned upon many gay people go into traditional marriages, I should be shocked this is no obvious to you, but given your lack of common sense shown earlier I can't say that I am. Regardless, if a single gay person goes into a traditional marriage then your point is irrelevant. k sorry i expressed myself a bit wrong: so u think it's good and morally correct to force gays into going into traditional marriages because they are scared to live as they want? if yes then you're a disgusting human being. Did you read my inb4? ITS IN THE POST YOU JUST QUOTED. I never said gays should be forced to do ANYTHING, I'm pointing out a possible reason the government might want to supress gay acceptance in Russian society, so don't go all holier than thou on me. You know why I put that inb4? Because I knew from the shit you've been posting that once you realized your point makes no sense you would immediately resort to personal attacks.
Rofl. Sorry bless my poor english + skipping the last sentence. Yes, i think it's pretty obvious that the government does it because of your theory. Not 100%, but it may be. As i overlooked the last sentence i guessed u thought it's right. Sorry =(
Tho u insulted me too, which is kinda 2faced, considering what you said before.
about ur reply b4: yes gays do that, i know that and that's also quite obvious, i mean that they sure don't want to do it, which is also obvious
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On August 08 2013 00:33 Denda Reloaded wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 00:28 Feartheguru wrote:On August 08 2013 00:26 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 08 2013 00:24 Feartheguru wrote:On August 08 2013 00:19 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 08 2013 00:14 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:43 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. and how could the "outward-ness of gays" possibly affect str8 couples to produce more human larva (babies or whatever)? oppressing gays won't change the birthrate, it will drop faster than taylors panties anyway. imho they search for the solution in wrong places. The outwardness of gays means those people who come out of the closet wouldn't have children? I really thought I could give people on TL the benefit of the doubt and not explain the most simple arguments? Inb4 I get attacked for hating gays when I'm just pointing out a possible Russian P.O.V. so u think that "most" of the gays marry a woman? they stay alone their whole life and die without any children, thought of that? why should gay ppl be forced to have sexual intercourse with someone they don't want to? or why should thay be forced to have children at all? would u like if the government would force you to fuck someone u don't want to fuck or raise kids (u know science if u want to avoid intercourse) u don't want to have? yes maybe it's like this in russia, but i think it's terribly wrong to force them to marry women, indirectly at least. Yes, in societies where homosexuality is frowned upon many gay people go into traditional marriages, I should be shocked this is no obvious to you, but given your lack of common sense shown earlier I can't say that I am. Regardless, if a single gay person goes into a traditional marriage then your point is irrelevant. k sorry i expressed myself a bit wrong: so u think it's good and morally correct to force gays into going into traditional marriages because they are scared to live as they want? if yes then you're a disgusting human being. Did you read my inb4? ITS IN THE POST YOU JUST QUOTED. I never said gays should be forced to do ANYTHING, I'm pointing out a possible reason the government might want to supress gay acceptance in Russian society, so don't go all holier than thou on me. You know why I put that inb4? Because I knew from the shit you've been posting that once you realized your point makes no sense you would immediately resort to personal attacks. Rofl. Sorry bless my poor english + skipping the last sentence. Yes, i think it's pretty obvious that the government does it because of your theory. Not 100%, but it may be. As i overlooked the last sentence i guessed u thought it's right. Sorry =( Tho u insulted me too, which is kinda 2faced, considering what you said before.
Well it's not so obvious I guess, since that's the topic of my other ongoing argument here.
And yes, I agree that gays shouldn't be forced into traditional marriages against their will to be used as repoductive tools for the state.
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On August 08 2013 00:35 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 00:33 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 08 2013 00:28 Feartheguru wrote:On August 08 2013 00:26 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 08 2013 00:24 Feartheguru wrote:On August 08 2013 00:19 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 08 2013 00:14 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:43 Denda Reloaded wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. and how could the "outward-ness of gays" possibly affect str8 couples to produce more human larva (babies or whatever)? oppressing gays won't change the birthrate, it will drop faster than taylors panties anyway. imho they search for the solution in wrong places. The outwardness of gays means those people who come out of the closet wouldn't have children? I really thought I could give people on TL the benefit of the doubt and not explain the most simple arguments? Inb4 I get attacked for hating gays when I'm just pointing out a possible Russian P.O.V. so u think that "most" of the gays marry a woman? they stay alone their whole life and die without any children, thought of that? why should gay ppl be forced to have sexual intercourse with someone they don't want to? or why should thay be forced to have children at all? would u like if the government would force you to fuck someone u don't want to fuck or raise kids (u know science if u want to avoid intercourse) u don't want to have? yes maybe it's like this in russia, but i think it's terribly wrong to force them to marry women, indirectly at least. Yes, in societies where homosexuality is frowned upon many gay people go into traditional marriages, I should be shocked this is no obvious to you, but given your lack of common sense shown earlier I can't say that I am. Regardless, if a single gay person goes into a traditional marriage then your point is irrelevant. k sorry i expressed myself a bit wrong: so u think it's good and morally correct to force gays into going into traditional marriages because they are scared to live as they want? if yes then you're a disgusting human being. Did you read my inb4? ITS IN THE POST YOU JUST QUOTED. I never said gays should be forced to do ANYTHING, I'm pointing out a possible reason the government might want to supress gay acceptance in Russian society, so don't go all holier than thou on me. You know why I put that inb4? Because I knew from the shit you've been posting that once you realized your point makes no sense you would immediately resort to personal attacks. Rofl. Sorry bless my poor english + skipping the last sentence. Yes, i think it's pretty obvious that the government does it because of your theory. Not 100%, but it may be. As i overlooked the last sentence i guessed u thought it's right. Sorry =( Tho u insulted me too, which is kinda 2faced, considering what you said before. Well it's not so obvious I guess, since that's the topic of my other ongoing argument here.
Hmmm... i think either coz of your theory, cause they want to keep them gays pressed etc or coz they are just stubborn and stupid. I don't know. I think because they are culturally homophobic and stubborn, but i think the government won't rely on they beliefs whatsoever to create laws.
edit: yes sorry, i got u wrong. still u dirty bichlady insulted me be4. k but we have a similar opinion so it's fine about that
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On August 07 2013 21:48 MikeMM wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 03:54 ComaDose wrote:On August 07 2013 03:49 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 03:39 Paljas wrote:On August 07 2013 03:20 Kimaker wrote:On August 07 2013 03:08 qotsager wrote:On August 07 2013 01:34 Kimaker wrote:
It's not like the law is actively pursuing people and putting them in camps for being gay, it's just prohibiting those annoying parades.
even IF that law "only" does that, note it is formulated extremely vaguely and therefor might turn into a convenient excuse for doing just what you said it was not supposed to, there is some really messed up shit going on (as several people have mentioned), directed against the homosexual community, that needs to stop. and if you deem those parades annoying, we should probably outrule any kind of parade ever, cause someone is gonna be annoyed by them. Oh God...shouldn't have written anything.... I'm not saying this from the perspective of "This is what I believe". I'm framing it in terms of Russian sovereignty and different cultural values. What would you have us do? Drive tanks into Russia to protect gay rights? Boycott the Olympics? (never gonna happen in this political climate). If you read my first post all the way through I'm less concerned with Russia and more concerned with how this could be taken advantage of by Western nations (particularly the US) since being upset is just...I don't know, it feels futile? yeah, obama should thank putin for discriminating gays, becasue the USA can take advantage of it. or, you know, he could act like a decent human being and be upset. even tho this feels futile to you. I would like to support the opinion stated ever so eloquently by the contributor called LaContra. It is indeed not the homophobia of one man or possibly one government, it is the homophobia of a whole nation and it is but one part of an ingrained and integral part of the cultural make-up of Eastern European and Russian nations, one that is not going to disappear overnight based on a simple gesture from a nation not long ago considered the enemy and even now considered at best spoiled and liberal. You may wish for a simple show of solidarity to an oppressed majority or for a show of protest against the Russian political system, however what you will be showing to the overwhelming majority of Russian people is simply that you consider your beliefs, motivations and ways of life better than theirs, you will be showing ingratitude and a bullish attitude. I am really sorry that I can not explain this better, but your wish for a sign of solidarity simply reads to me as childishly spitting in the face of your host (Russian people), because he is unable to accommodate your wish for profound change by a certain deadline. I don't want a profound change by a certain deadline, I want them to stop actively moving backwards. Why do you think Russia is moving backwards regarding this issue. Maybe its USA that took the wrong course? Just immagine that every single person in USA is gay. You would suggest to let them be? But the country would die in one generation if everybody is gay.
That is absurd notion, one that shows how (with all due respect) stupid you are.
Imagine you were sterile because of a DNA trait.
Suppose we would need to take away your rights, then torture you, rape you and then finally kill you because you can not procreate or we feel being unable to have fertile sperm is bad.
See how that works?
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On August 08 2013 00:39 BillGates wrote:Show nested quote +On August 07 2013 21:48 MikeMM wrote:On August 07 2013 03:54 ComaDose wrote:On August 07 2013 03:49 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 03:39 Paljas wrote:On August 07 2013 03:20 Kimaker wrote:On August 07 2013 03:08 qotsager wrote:On August 07 2013 01:34 Kimaker wrote:
It's not like the law is actively pursuing people and putting them in camps for being gay, it's just prohibiting those annoying parades.
even IF that law "only" does that, note it is formulated extremely vaguely and therefor might turn into a convenient excuse for doing just what you said it was not supposed to, there is some really messed up shit going on (as several people have mentioned), directed against the homosexual community, that needs to stop. and if you deem those parades annoying, we should probably outrule any kind of parade ever, cause someone is gonna be annoyed by them. Oh God...shouldn't have written anything.... I'm not saying this from the perspective of "This is what I believe". I'm framing it in terms of Russian sovereignty and different cultural values. What would you have us do? Drive tanks into Russia to protect gay rights? Boycott the Olympics? (never gonna happen in this political climate). If you read my first post all the way through I'm less concerned with Russia and more concerned with how this could be taken advantage of by Western nations (particularly the US) since being upset is just...I don't know, it feels futile? yeah, obama should thank putin for discriminating gays, becasue the USA can take advantage of it. or, you know, he could act like a decent human being and be upset. even tho this feels futile to you. I would like to support the opinion stated ever so eloquently by the contributor called LaContra. It is indeed not the homophobia of one man or possibly one government, it is the homophobia of a whole nation and it is but one part of an ingrained and integral part of the cultural make-up of Eastern European and Russian nations, one that is not going to disappear overnight based on a simple gesture from a nation not long ago considered the enemy and even now considered at best spoiled and liberal. You may wish for a simple show of solidarity to an oppressed majority or for a show of protest against the Russian political system, however what you will be showing to the overwhelming majority of Russian people is simply that you consider your beliefs, motivations and ways of life better than theirs, you will be showing ingratitude and a bullish attitude. I am really sorry that I can not explain this better, but your wish for a sign of solidarity simply reads to me as childishly spitting in the face of your host (Russian people), because he is unable to accommodate your wish for profound change by a certain deadline. I don't want a profound change by a certain deadline, I want them to stop actively moving backwards. Why do you think Russia is moving backwards regarding this issue. Maybe its USA that took the wrong course? Just immagine that every single person in USA is gay. You would suggest to let them be? But the country would die in one generation if everybody is gay. That is absurd notion, one that shows how (with all due respect) stupid you are. Imagine you were sterile because of a DNA trait. Suppose we would need to take away your rights, then torture you, rape you and then finally kill you because you can not procreate or we feel being unable to have fertile sperm is bad. See how that works?
hold up i'm praying 2 my haters that this guy finally will understand it. thx for ur post
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On August 08 2013 00:32 Feartheguru wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 00:28 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 00:22 Feartheguru wrote:On August 08 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 00:12 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:46 Plansix wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. How will this ever be a problem? How will more openly gay people EVER stop people from having kids? Its not like men are going to leave their wives on mass once they know they are can be openly gay. This could be the worst argument ever. More gay people will not stay in the closet and thus not go into a traditional marriage and have children? Obviously gay people don't stop straight people from having kids. This likely is the worst rebuttle ever. Because you provide no evidence to back up those facts. Your argument is "If they can be openly gay, they won't fuck women and then we won't get babies. Our population problem will continue due to this." Russia's population problem has nothing to do with gay anything. Maybe they should work on having straight couples have more than 1 child. First of all I never claimed Russia's population problem "continues due to this" (although I did suggested it might be exacerbated by it), so stop putting words in my mouth... Openly gay couples have less children (through biological means, adoption doesn't count) than normal couples do. This is so obvious I'm not gonna waste time providing evidence. Its not obvious is any way. There is no proof that preventing someone from being openly gay causes them to enter into relationships with the opposite sex and have children. The few people who do enter those relationships are likely in denied as to their sexuality and would not live openly even if it as an option. Your argument is beyond flawed. It can be boiled down to: Gay people have to be fucking someone. If they can't be in an open gay relationship, they must be fucking someone of the opposite sex. Fucking the opposite sex leads to babies. Openly gay couples means their will be less babies, because they will fuck fewer people of the opposite sex. Are you gonna strawman every post I make, if so just don't respond to this. (Or if it'd make you feel better you can get the last word, I'm ok with that) In societies where homosexuality is not accepted, some of them DO enter into traditional marriages to avoid social stigma, or to feel like they are living a normal life. How is this anything but undeniable fact?
It isn't deniable, you are 100% correct on that. However, your orgional argument was:
"The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal."
This argument centers around the idea that there are a large number of gay people in traditional relationships due to the fact that can cannot live openly. People are arguing that this is not a signifigant number in any way and would have no effect on the population. As you have provided no evidence and are only relying on the fact that there must be some gay people in traditional relationships, people are pointing out the flaws in the argument.
Yes, you are correct that their are people who are gay in traditional relationships all over, that was never in question. However, you have failed to prove that those people are in large enough numbers to have an effect on population growth across the Nation of Russia. And common sense would say that this is likely not the case.
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On August 08 2013 00:42 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 00:32 Feartheguru wrote:On August 08 2013 00:28 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 00:22 Feartheguru wrote:On August 08 2013 00:17 Plansix wrote:On August 08 2013 00:12 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:46 Plansix wrote:On August 07 2013 23:40 Feartheguru wrote:On August 07 2013 23:21 MidKnight wrote:
Yeah, just like we can see from some of the people posting a huge problem is simply lack of understanding of homosexuality.
Some people do actually believe that "more people will be become gay if we accept that being gay is not a bad thing". That's obviously a completely nonsensical and ludicrous statement if you're educated on the matter, but a lot of people do think that way and make arguments based on that assumption which is simply wrong. Of course, any kind of study which conflicts with their beliefs is deemed as "western propaganda". It's interesting to observe.
If people from that region realized that sexual attraction is not a choice and that there's nothing to suggest that the % of population which is gay increased in the recent times due to it being more accepted in society (only that more people are "coming out of the closet" and are more comfortable with accepting and embracing who they are instead of pretending to be straight and living their lives in misery), tolerance would increase. It's just that these ridiculous ideas are so deeply ingrained into the culture of these countries, that people just keep on believing them. The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal. How will this ever be a problem? How will more openly gay people EVER stop people from having kids? Its not like men are going to leave their wives on mass once they know they are can be openly gay. This could be the worst argument ever. More gay people will not stay in the closet and thus not go into a traditional marriage and have children? Obviously gay people don't stop straight people from having kids. This likely is the worst rebuttle ever. Because you provide no evidence to back up those facts. Your argument is "If they can be openly gay, they won't fuck women and then we won't get babies. Our population problem will continue due to this." Russia's population problem has nothing to do with gay anything. Maybe they should work on having straight couples have more than 1 child. First of all I never claimed Russia's population problem "continues due to this" (although I did suggested it might be exacerbated by it), so stop putting words in my mouth... Openly gay couples have less children (through biological means, adoption doesn't count) than normal couples do. This is so obvious I'm not gonna waste time providing evidence. Its not obvious is any way. There is no proof that preventing someone from being openly gay causes them to enter into relationships with the opposite sex and have children. The few people who do enter those relationships are likely in denied as to their sexuality and would not live openly even if it as an option. Your argument is beyond flawed. It can be boiled down to: Gay people have to be fucking someone. If they can't be in an open gay relationship, they must be fucking someone of the opposite sex. Fucking the opposite sex leads to babies. Openly gay couples means their will be less babies, because they will fuck fewer people of the opposite sex. Are you gonna strawman every post I make, if so just don't respond to this. (Or if it'd make you feel better you can get the last word, I'm ok with that) In societies where homosexuality is not accepted, some of them DO enter into traditional marriages to avoid social stigma, or to feel like they are living a normal life. How is this anything but undeniable fact? It isn't deniable, you are 100% correct on that. However, your orgional argument was: "The number of gay people would not increase, but the number of outwardly gay people would. In a country like Russia with a plumetting birthrate, that actually is a big deal." This argument centers around the idea that there are a large number of gay people in traditional relationships due to the fact that can cannot live openly. People are arguing that this is not a signifigant number in any way and would have no effect on the population. As you have provided no evidence and are only relying on the fact that there must be some gay people in traditional relationships, people are pointing out the flaws in the argument. Yes, you are correct that their are people who are gay in traditional relationships all over, that was never in question. However, you have failed to prove that those people are in large enough numbers to have an effect on population growth across the Nation of Russia. And common sense would say that this is likely not the case.
Ok, I apologize for the misunderstanding here. I wrote that purely in the sense that since the population issue is such a "big deal" for Russia, anything that might exacerbate it further is a major issue for them. I did not intent to suggest that allowing gays to be open would make a substantive difference. So I had no idea why you were trying to suggest I meant that until you quoted what I original said and how it can easily be interpreted that way.
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Russia also has an incredibly high death rate, especially men. Life expentancy of men is massively disparate from women. You want to talk about longevity, start there.
Maybe stressing over where people put their penises is killing them.
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