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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On August 08 2013 05:31 ComaDose wrote: do you think enforcing a new controversial law on invited athletes is less political than being upset about it? Every single country enforces their laws on the athletes who come to participate. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On August 08 2013 05:39 sc2superfan101 wrote: Every single country enforces their laws on the athletes who come to participate. are you responding to my question? is your point that we should be fixing the bigger social injustices surrounding the Olympics first? or that we should ignore all problems with the Olympics? | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On August 08 2013 05:39 sc2superfan101 wrote: Every single country enforces their laws on the athletes who come to participate. And considering that this is a broadly worded anti-free speech law, our citizens are at risk. That makes pretty damn political. | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On August 08 2013 05:46 ComaDose wrote: are you responding to my question? is your point that we should be fixing the bigger social injustices surrounding the Olympics first? or that we should ignore all problems with the Olympics? My point is that athletics (and athletes) in general should stay out of Geo-political debates. Russia has some ridiculous laws, and this is one of them. You won't get any argument there out of me. Should we use the Olympics as a tool to solve political disputes or make political statements about Russia's nonsensical policies? No. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11517 Posts
On August 08 2013 05:17 Denda Reloaded wrote: np <33 it's only 80% as fucked up as it sounds maybe, coz some countries actually kill 4 beign gay Please don't take this personal, but could you please stop using numbers as words and generally type in that weird IM style? Because it really hurts my brain to read your posts just because of that. On August 08 2013 00:49 DoubleReed wrote: Russia also has an incredibly high death rate, especially men. Life expentancy of men is massively disparate from women. You want to talk about longevity, start there. Maybe stressing over where people put their penises is killing them. Life expectency should be irrelevant beyong its influence on the reproduction rate. Everyone dies at some point, the interesting question for sustained population change is how many children they make on average before dying. Sure, if everyone suddenly lives double as long, you get a one-time boost in population, but that is it. Especially considering that people beyond a certain age rarely reproduce at all. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On August 08 2013 05:50 sc2superfan101 wrote: My point is that athletics (and athletes) in general should stay out of Geo-political debates. Russia has some ridiculous laws, and this is one of them. You won't get any argument there out of me. Should we use the Olympics as a tool to solve political disputes or make political statements about Russia's nonsensical policies? No. why should athletes stay out of political debates? i assume you mean more so than the average citizen. i agree that if an athlete causes a fuss there it would be unprofessional. but there are athletes that this law directly oppresses | ||
KwarK
United States42699 Posts
On August 08 2013 05:50 sc2superfan101 wrote: My point is that athletics (and athletes) in general should stay out of Geo-political debates. Russia has some ridiculous laws, and this is one of them. You won't get any argument there out of me. Should we use the Olympics as a tool to solve political disputes or make political statements about Russia's nonsensical policies? No. The sports boycott over Apartheid was influential regarding ending it. Athletes have more of a role than most to raise awareness and take a public stand. | ||
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sc2superfan101
3583 Posts
On August 08 2013 06:17 KwarK wrote: The sports boycott over Apartheid was influential regarding ending it. Athletes have more of a role than most to raise awareness and take a public stand. There is some debate to be had over whether those boycotts were morally acceptable or not, regardless of the outcome. I disagree that athletes should generally take a stand on any particular issue. They are rarely informed or qualified, and simply add to the buzzing noise of "pop politics". | ||
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turdburgler
England6749 Posts
On August 08 2013 05:19 sc2superfan101 wrote: We let the North Koreans, who routinely imprison and murder their own citizens by the tens of thousands play in the Olympics... but pass a law against the gays, and that's where we put our foot down. Wasn't the whole point of the Olympics to be a distinctly non-political event? no, the opposite. and we shouldnt let the north koreans or the worst arabic states compete either. but 2 wrongs doesnt make make a right. | ||
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ftm
Australia47 Posts
RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* | ||
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KwarK
United States42699 Posts
On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote: I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights? RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* Gay rights protect humans, ideas don't get protection. | ||
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ComaDose
Canada10357 Posts
On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote: I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights? RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* no its about equality for everyone. | ||
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Mohdoo
United States15690 Posts
On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote: I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights? RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* Not acknowledging gay rights is seeking to lessen the freedom of a certain group of people. Gay rights advocate for maximizing the rights of all people, whereas anti-gay rights seek to minimize the rights of a certain group. They are not equivalent ideas. I understand that this silly "argument" is common for trolling, but its old at this point. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote: I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights? RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* No, that's dumb. You don't support tolerance and open mindedness but also support intolerance and closed mindedness of other people. What the hell is this new "Your not open minded at all. You are not in support of other people CHOICE repress gays and remove their ability to protest and speak freely. What kind of progressive are you?"(sneer face) | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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Shiragaku
Hong Kong4308 Posts
On August 08 2013 06:48 Plansix wrote: No, that's dumb. You don't support tolerance and open mindedness but also support intolerance and closed mindedness of other people. What the hell is this new "Your not open minded at all. You are not in support of other people CHOICE repress gays and remove their ability to protest and speak freely. What kind of progressive are you?"(sneer face) At least they are not hiding behind anti-Americanism or anti-Western sentiment as some of my "buddies" like to do. But from what I saw, it seems to be used as a silencing mechanism similar to the "children in Africa," and the "can we move on and stop talking about" statements. | ||
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Feartheguru
Canada1334 Posts
On August 08 2013 06:37 turdburgler wrote: no, the opposite. and we shouldnt let the north koreans or the worst arabic states compete either. but 2 wrongs doesnt make make a right. And some of those Arab states would think America shouldn't be able to compete because they defied international laws to start wars and cost many lives. You don't get to impose your morals on other countries. | ||
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radscorpion9
Canada2252 Posts
On August 08 2013 05:50 sc2superfan101 wrote: My point is that athletics (and athletes) in general should stay out of Geo-political debates. Russia has some ridiculous laws, and this is one of them. You won't get any argument there out of me. Should we use the Olympics as a tool to solve political disputes or make political statements about Russia's nonsensical policies? No. Everyone has a right to protest, including athletes. Athletes are people too, and they have rights. Why shouldn't they use the olympics as a tool to voice their concerns? Aside from the fact that they might end up in a Russian jail, who exactly does it hurt? All the people at home who like being entertained? A country's national pride in its medal count? Its the athletes themselves who stand to lose anything. I say if they're willing to put it on the line to express their beliefs in a high-profile way they should have the right. I would be interested in hearing what reasons you have, because so far it just seems to be a personal opinion based on arbitrary preferences. I agree that people generally shouldn't comment on complex affairs that they know nothing about, but this is a law that is obviously wrong to any sane individual. Athletes are just as capable as anyone else in this regard. | ||
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DoubleReed
United States4130 Posts
On August 08 2013 06:39 ftm wrote: I really don't get why this is a deal-breaker? Isn't gay rights about tolerance and open mindedness? And, if it is, then aren't we supposed to be tolerant and open-minded towards those who don't support gay rights? RIP in peace post-modern tolerance. *places hand on heart, looks down in earnest sadness* ????? What the hell are you talking about? This is a law that bans open support for gay rights. It's an anti-free-speech law. And you're saying it's intolerant to reject that????? I have to be tolerant of people silencing me???? What the hell kind of warped language are you using? You shouldn't be able to use words with the way you treat them. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On August 08 2013 07:17 radscorpion9 wrote: Everyone has a right to protest, including athletes. Athletes are people too, and they have rights. Why shouldn't they use the olympics as a tool to voice their concerns? Aside from the fact that they might end up in a Russian jail, who exactly does it hurt? All the people at home who like being entertained? A country's national pride in its medal count? Its the athletes themselves who stand to lose anything. I say if they're willing to put it on the line to express their beliefs in a high-profile way they should have the right. I would be interested in hearing what reasons you have, because so far it just seems to be a personal opinion based on arbitrary preferences. I agree that people generally shouldn't comment on complex affairs that they know nothing about, but this is a law that is obviously wrong to any sane individual. Athletes are just as capable as anyone else in this regard. did you just call majority of russians insane? just saying, people just love to ride their high horse with their higher moral values and shit on anyone that doesnt think "rationally". people are shaped by the environment they live in, fortunately america has seen plenty of blood to learn their lesson, yet you expect others who hasnt gone through "puberty"(certain experience) to understand and if they dont understand, they're bigoted idiots to russians, this is sane, rational thing to do, protecting what they think is correct. it takes time for them as whole to change their mind supporting equality for all, becoming progressive, however that doesnt mean you get to call them idiots, bigots, fools going back in time. they're just being human. | ||
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EPT
Thanks for explaining to both of you though.
