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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On May 26 2019 00:59 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2019 20:35 Silvanel wrote:
Johnson saying that is strong indication it wont happen. The guy is wrong like 90% of the time. Wouldn’t surprise me to see a Johnson govt fail a no confidence vote if they try go hard brexit route.Tory support collapses,Brexit 2nd largest party.Labour loses some working class seats to brexit party.Labour goes into coalition govt with Lib Dems.Even though Corbyn hates the EU.Total mess.We could be witnessing the collapse of both major parties.
All pretty unlikely IMO.
We’ll see how it goes, I don’t think the Farages and Johnson’s of the world are immune to the consequences of their action forever.
If, and of course it’s an if, the UK leave the EU are there negative consequences that many are predicting, where does those negatives primarily fall?
Doesn’t have to get into ‘project Fear’ territory, where’s that anger going to be directed at? The people who told you this would happen, or the people who convinced you to vote for it happening by downplaying or outright denying the possibility of such things?
Anti-establishment shtick only works until what you are advocating for years becomes reality, then you’re very much on the hook.
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England2814 Posts
On May 24 2019 21:41 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 20:36 iamthedave wrote:On May 24 2019 00:24 Artisreal wrote:On May 24 2019 00:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 23 2019 16:48 m4ini wrote:I was quite proud of the UK political sphere for not turning Jo Cox into a martyr for particular political positions, I hope that bit of restraint over a horrifying moment isn’t going to be abandoned now.
Turning someone into a martyr and pointing out how fucking idiotic fake outrage over a milkshake is by reminding people of the right wing equivalent of "milkshake throwing left wing terrorists/radicals" are two very different things. If it makes you sleep better, i'll point out Tommy Robinsons "speech" on the weekend, where a few followers were taken in by the police for violence (throwing bricks and eggs at the police and counter protesters). All the while making up stories about people being stabbed and shot beforehand (which the police already clarified are bullshit). Not for the first time either, btw - his "speeches" seem to have an interesting effect on the poor, milkshake-PTSD suffering right wingers. “Nearly all of the time an egg is an egg, and a milkshake is a milkshake. We, in the [Secret Service], on President Bush, in the post 9/11 era didn't consider that stuff to be ‘political violence’ in the absence of evidence of intent to cause actual harm,” he tweeted.
“We had eggs thrown. We had powder thrown. We had drinks thrown. I had a frappucino thrown at us in a motorcade. Mostly, this stuff never made the press, George Bush had a valet with a spare suit and a good attitude.
“FFS, Nigel, Carl, Stephen. You got a whole posse of handlers and factotums. Keep a change of clothes handy and man up.
That's from a former ranking member of the secret service, for bush no less. If one of "your" guys is telling you to man up and stop being a pussy, making a drama out of "radical left wing milkshake terrorism", you might want to take the hint (not aimed at Wombat). Tommy Robinson isn’t Farage, and Farage isn’t all Brexit voters. Personally I find the odd milkshake pretty funny. My issue isn’t at all with that, it’s the wider political culture. It’s easier to argue politics if the other folks are all bad people, not generally decent people with a different political opinion. This has gone and diffused down all the way from top to bottom, and it’s really not a good thing. I’ll pick on Diane Abbott because she’s spoken about this more than others, if someone threw a milkshake at her there’d be a certain section up in arms about it. They’d write articles about her getting shit on Twitter and how it’s because she’s a black woman or something. Same folks will write, or at least think ‘fuck him he deserves it’ if it’s Farage. I have no numbers to hand but I’m pretty sure he must get a lot of abuse and threats too. Or vice versa as we’re seeing in a non-hypothetical, where the right tabloids that actually push articles about ‘snowflakes’ on their front pages writing as if Farage had been assassinated, which was utterly preposterous. The ‘rise’ of Tommy Robinson is absolutely regrettable, I’d he didn’t have at least some legitimate fuel to work with, that doesn’t happen. A striking difference could be that Abbott gets flack because she's a black person and/or a woman,rather than because of her policies. Meaning the same reason for her getting shit upon wouldn't get a white man in trouble. Farage gets flack because of his awful standpoints and lies. Not sure what you had in mind about Abbott though, couldn't really find something despicable about her just now. Diane Abbott's list of public fuck ups, gaffes and embarrassing moments is so long you'd think she was from UKIP. A white man would absolutely get shit for the stuff she's done; journalists love it when they catch a politician who clearly has no idea what they're talking about. I believe the only reason she has a job is she stuck by Corbyn when pretty much everyone else abandoned her, and she's been an anchor for his cause on multiple occasions. Not that I don't doubt some people go after her 'cause she's a black woman, but that is but one reason to have a go at Diane Abbott, and far from the best one. She was the country's first black MP, is the longest serving black MP. She has won every local election since 1987. You really don't think she deserves a top job? Why do you think her fuck ups get so much attention?? I think its 6 of one half a dozen of the other. She does screw up but when she does it gets blown way out of proportion given what the consequences of those mistakes are. Compare that to someone like Grayling, an old white man who has fucked up MORE THAN ONE essential public service in the UK and still has a top job and isn't constantly in the headlines.
I think regardless of her standing and ability her mistakes would have seen her ousted if she weren't a Corbyn insider. She was a MASSIVE problem for him not so long ago because she kept saying stupid things on TV.
Grayling has but a single talent as a politician: making himself unsackable. He's useless but he always manages to be useless in ways that guarantee him a job. Toadying up to the right people at the right times, supporting the right policies. He's protected the same way Abbott was. Only he's shitter at his job.
On May 25 2019 02:20 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 20:36 iamthedave wrote:On May 24 2019 00:24 Artisreal wrote:On May 24 2019 00:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 23 2019 16:48 m4ini wrote:I was quite proud of the UK political sphere for not turning Jo Cox into a martyr for particular political positions, I hope that bit of restraint over a horrifying moment isn’t going to be abandoned now.
Turning someone into a martyr and pointing out how fucking idiotic fake outrage over a milkshake is by reminding people of the right wing equivalent of "milkshake throwing left wing terrorists/radicals" are two very different things. If it makes you sleep better, i'll point out Tommy Robinsons "speech" on the weekend, where a few followers were taken in by the police for violence (throwing bricks and eggs at the police and counter protesters). All the while making up stories about people being stabbed and shot beforehand (which the police already clarified are bullshit). Not for the first time either, btw - his "speeches" seem to have an interesting effect on the poor, milkshake-PTSD suffering right wingers. “Nearly all of the time an egg is an egg, and a milkshake is a milkshake. We, in the [Secret Service], on President Bush, in the post 9/11 era didn't consider that stuff to be ‘political violence’ in the absence of evidence of intent to cause actual harm,” he tweeted.
“We had eggs thrown. We had powder thrown. We had drinks thrown. I had a frappucino thrown at us in a motorcade. Mostly, this stuff never made the press, George Bush had a valet with a spare suit and a good attitude.
“FFS, Nigel, Carl, Stephen. You got a whole posse of handlers and factotums. Keep a change of clothes handy and man up.
That's from a former ranking member of the secret service, for bush no less. If one of "your" guys is telling you to man up and stop being a pussy, making a drama out of "radical left wing milkshake terrorism", you might want to take the hint (not aimed at Wombat). Tommy Robinson isn’t Farage, and Farage isn’t all Brexit voters. Personally I find the odd milkshake pretty funny. My issue isn’t at all with that, it’s the wider political culture. It’s easier to argue politics if the other folks are all bad people, not generally decent people with a different political opinion. This has gone and diffused down all the way from top to bottom, and it’s really not a good thing. I’ll pick on Diane Abbott because she’s spoken about this more than others, if someone threw a milkshake at her there’d be a certain section up in arms about it. They’d write articles about her getting shit on Twitter and how it’s because she’s a black woman or something. Same folks will write, or at least think ‘fuck him he deserves it’ if it’s Farage. I have no numbers to hand but I’m pretty sure he must get a lot of abuse and threats too. Or vice versa as we’re seeing in a non-hypothetical, where the right tabloids that actually push articles about ‘snowflakes’ on their front pages writing as if Farage had been assassinated, which was utterly preposterous. The ‘rise’ of Tommy Robinson is absolutely regrettable, I’d he didn’t have at least some legitimate fuel to work with, that doesn’t happen. A striking difference could be that Abbott gets flack because she's a black person and/or a woman,rather than because of her policies. Meaning the same reason for her getting shit upon wouldn't get a white man in trouble. Farage gets flack because of his awful standpoints and lies. Not sure what you had in mind about Abbott though, couldn't really find something despicable about her just now. Diane Abbott's list of public fuck ups, gaffes and embarrassing moments is so long you'd think she was from UKIP. A white man would absolutely get shit for the stuff she's done; journalists love it when they catch a politician who clearly has no idea what they're talking about. I believe the only reason she has a job is she stuck by Corbyn when pretty much everyone else abandoned her, and she's been an anchor for his cause on multiple occasions. Not that I don't doubt some people go after her 'cause she's a black woman, but that is but one reason to have a go at Diane Abbott, and far from the best one. Thank you for bringin that to mind. I did a quick google search on my phone yesterday with "abbott scandal" and it was her drinking a can of mojito on the tube that came up on the first 2 pages. Wasn't that shocking to me but as I said I didn't dig into it further.
Difference between a scandal and a fuck up. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/02/diane-abbott-has-several-numbers-on-police-costs-sadly-they-are-all-wrong
That one was a BIG fuck up, and the exact sort of thing that has cost ministers their jobs in the past because it makes the entire party - and in this case the party leader - look like idiots, since she was explicitly defending and expanding on one of Jeremy Corbyn's statements.
She hasn't actually done anything egregiously wrong in a while, but she went through a very rocky patch a year or so ago.
On May 26 2019 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2019 10:40 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Johnson is saying the UK will leave 31 October with or without a deal.
Seems like things are finally moving in the right direction. Or he's just trying to stir up things so he doesn't actually get to be PM. To me it looks like his plan is to avoid being in a position where he has to deal with the fallout of his shit at all costs while being able to sling as much shit as possible in order to keep his popularity up. Meanwhile staying as close to the throne as he can while waiting for someone else to clean up the mess, just in time for him to swoop in, blame everyone else (but himself) for not getting a better deal and THEN becoming PM. Of course it has to look like he's interested at all time, you can't turn it down and expect to be a viable candidate later. Brexit is not a "hot" potato it's more like a napalm pineapple. If you pick it up your not getting away without severe burns.
I see someone is familiar with Boris Johnson's playbook!
Yes, that's blatantly his aim. He wants to be PM after all this has blown over and proclaim to the nation 'look, I am the man who wanted this, I am the man to lead you in this era!'
He was counting on remain winning the referendum, not leave.
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On May 26 2019 03:42 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 21:41 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 24 2019 20:36 iamthedave wrote:On May 24 2019 00:24 Artisreal wrote:On May 24 2019 00:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 23 2019 16:48 m4ini wrote:I was quite proud of the UK political sphere for not turning Jo Cox into a martyr for particular political positions, I hope that bit of restraint over a horrifying moment isn’t going to be abandoned now.
Turning someone into a martyr and pointing out how fucking idiotic fake outrage over a milkshake is by reminding people of the right wing equivalent of "milkshake throwing left wing terrorists/radicals" are two very different things. If it makes you sleep better, i'll point out Tommy Robinsons "speech" on the weekend, where a few followers were taken in by the police for violence (throwing bricks and eggs at the police and counter protesters). All the while making up stories about people being stabbed and shot beforehand (which the police already clarified are bullshit). Not for the first time either, btw - his "speeches" seem to have an interesting effect on the poor, milkshake-PTSD suffering right wingers. “Nearly all of the time an egg is an egg, and a milkshake is a milkshake. We, in the [Secret Service], on President Bush, in the post 9/11 era didn't consider that stuff to be ‘political violence’ in the absence of evidence of intent to cause actual harm,” he tweeted.
“We had eggs thrown. We had powder thrown. We had drinks thrown. I had a frappucino thrown at us in a motorcade. Mostly, this stuff never made the press, George Bush had a valet with a spare suit and a good attitude.
“FFS, Nigel, Carl, Stephen. You got a whole posse of handlers and factotums. Keep a change of clothes handy and man up.
That's from a former ranking member of the secret service, for bush no less. If one of "your" guys is telling you to man up and stop being a pussy, making a drama out of "radical left wing milkshake terrorism", you might want to take the hint (not aimed at Wombat). Tommy Robinson isn’t Farage, and Farage isn’t all Brexit voters. Personally I find the odd milkshake pretty funny. My issue isn’t at all with that, it’s the wider political culture. It’s easier to argue politics if the other folks are all bad people, not generally decent people with a different political opinion. This has gone and diffused down all the way from top to bottom, and it’s really not a good thing. I’ll pick on Diane Abbott because she’s spoken about this more than others, if someone threw a milkshake at her there’d be a certain section up in arms about it. They’d write articles about her getting shit on Twitter and how it’s because she’s a black woman or something. Same folks will write, or at least think ‘fuck him he deserves it’ if it’s Farage. I have no numbers to hand but I’m pretty sure he must get a lot of abuse and threats too. Or vice versa as we’re seeing in a non-hypothetical, where the right tabloids that actually push articles about ‘snowflakes’ on their front pages writing as if Farage had been assassinated, which was utterly preposterous. The ‘rise’ of Tommy Robinson is absolutely regrettable, I’d he didn’t have at least some legitimate fuel to work with, that doesn’t happen. A striking difference could be that Abbott gets flack because she's a black person and/or a woman,rather than because of her policies. Meaning the same reason for her getting shit upon wouldn't get a white man in trouble. Farage gets flack because of his awful standpoints and lies. Not sure what you had in mind about Abbott though, couldn't really find something despicable about her just now. Diane Abbott's list of public fuck ups, gaffes and embarrassing moments is so long you'd think she was from UKIP. A white man would absolutely get shit for the stuff she's done; journalists love it when they catch a politician who clearly has no idea what they're talking about. I believe the only reason she has a job is she stuck by Corbyn when pretty much everyone else abandoned her, and she's been an anchor for his cause on multiple occasions. Not that I don't doubt some people go after her 'cause she's a black woman, but that is but one reason to have a go at Diane Abbott, and far from the best one. She was the country's first black MP, is the longest serving black MP. She has won every local election since 1987. You really don't think she deserves a top job? Why do you think her fuck ups get so much attention?? I think its 6 of one half a dozen of the other. She does screw up but when she does it gets blown way out of proportion given what the consequences of those mistakes are. Compare that to someone like Grayling, an old white man who has fucked up MORE THAN ONE essential public service in the UK and still has a top job and isn't constantly in the headlines. I think regardless of her standing and ability her mistakes would have seen her ousted if she weren't a Corbyn insider. She was a MASSIVE problem for him not so long ago because she kept saying stupid things on TV. Grayling has but a single talent as a politician: making himself unsackable. He's useless but he always manages to be useless in ways that guarantee him a job. Toadying up to the right people at the right times, supporting the right policies. He's protected the same way Abbott was. Only he's shitter at his job. Show nested quote +On May 25 2019 02:20 Artisreal wrote:On May 24 2019 20:36 iamthedave wrote:On May 24 2019 00:24 Artisreal wrote:On May 24 2019 00:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 23 2019 16:48 m4ini wrote:I was quite proud of the UK political sphere for not turning Jo Cox into a martyr for particular political positions, I hope that bit of restraint over a horrifying moment isn’t going to be abandoned now.
Turning someone into a martyr and pointing out how fucking idiotic fake outrage over a milkshake is by reminding people of the right wing equivalent of "milkshake throwing left wing terrorists/radicals" are two very different things. If it makes you sleep better, i'll point out Tommy Robinsons "speech" on the weekend, where a few followers were taken in by the police for violence (throwing bricks and eggs at the police and counter protesters). All the while making up stories about people being stabbed and shot beforehand (which the police already clarified are bullshit). Not for the first time either, btw - his "speeches" seem to have an interesting effect on the poor, milkshake-PTSD suffering right wingers. “Nearly all of the time an egg is an egg, and a milkshake is a milkshake. We, in the [Secret Service], on President Bush, in the post 9/11 era didn't consider that stuff to be ‘political violence’ in the absence of evidence of intent to cause actual harm,” he tweeted.
“We had eggs thrown. We had powder thrown. We had drinks thrown. I had a frappucino thrown at us in a motorcade. Mostly, this stuff never made the press, George Bush had a valet with a spare suit and a good attitude.
“FFS, Nigel, Carl, Stephen. You got a whole posse of handlers and factotums. Keep a change of clothes handy and man up.
That's from a former ranking member of the secret service, for bush no less. If one of "your" guys is telling you to man up and stop being a pussy, making a drama out of "radical left wing milkshake terrorism", you might want to take the hint (not aimed at Wombat). Tommy Robinson isn’t Farage, and Farage isn’t all Brexit voters. Personally I find the odd milkshake pretty funny. My issue isn’t at all with that, it’s the wider political culture. It’s easier to argue politics if the other folks are all bad people, not generally decent people with a different political opinion. This has gone and diffused down all the way from top to bottom, and it’s really not a good thing. I’ll pick on Diane Abbott because she’s spoken about this more than others, if someone threw a milkshake at her there’d be a certain section up in arms about it. They’d write articles about her getting shit on Twitter and how it’s because she’s a black woman or something. Same folks will write, or at least think ‘fuck him he deserves it’ if it’s Farage. I have no numbers to hand but I’m pretty sure he must get a lot of abuse and threats too. Or vice versa as we’re seeing in a non-hypothetical, where the right tabloids that actually push articles about ‘snowflakes’ on their front pages writing as if Farage had been assassinated, which was utterly preposterous. The ‘rise’ of Tommy Robinson is absolutely regrettable, I’d he didn’t have at least some legitimate fuel to work with, that doesn’t happen. A striking difference could be that Abbott gets flack because she's a black person and/or a woman,rather than because of her policies. Meaning the same reason for her getting shit upon wouldn't get a white man in trouble. Farage gets flack because of his awful standpoints and lies. Not sure what you had in mind about Abbott though, couldn't really find something despicable about her just now. Diane Abbott's list of public fuck ups, gaffes and embarrassing moments is so long you'd think she was from UKIP. A white man would absolutely get shit for the stuff she's done; journalists love it when they catch a politician who clearly has no idea what they're talking about. I believe the only reason she has a job is she stuck by Corbyn when pretty much everyone else abandoned her, and she's been an anchor for his cause on multiple occasions. Not that I don't doubt some people go after her 'cause she's a black woman, but that is but one reason to have a go at Diane Abbott, and far from the best one. Thank you for bringin that to mind. I did a quick google search on my phone yesterday with "abbott scandal" and it was her drinking a can of mojito on the tube that came up on the first 2 pages. Wasn't that shocking to me but as I said I didn't dig into it further. Difference between a scandal and a fuck up. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/02/diane-abbott-has-several-numbers-on-police-costs-sadly-they-are-all-wrongThat one was a BIG fuck up, and the exact sort of thing that has cost ministers their jobs in the past because it makes the entire party - and in this case the party leader - look like idiots, since she was explicitly defending and expanding on one of Jeremy Corbyn's statements. She hasn't actually done anything egregiously wrong in a while, but she went through a very rocky patch a year or so ago. Show nested quote +On May 26 2019 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On May 25 2019 10:40 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Johnson is saying the UK will leave 31 October with or without a deal.
Seems like things are finally moving in the right direction. Or he's just trying to stir up things so he doesn't actually get to be PM. To me it looks like his plan is to avoid being in a position where he has to deal with the fallout of his shit at all costs while being able to sling as much shit as possible in order to keep his popularity up. Meanwhile staying as close to the throne as he can while waiting for someone else to clean up the mess, just in time for him to swoop in, blame everyone else (but himself) for not getting a better deal and THEN becoming PM. Of course it has to look like he's interested at all time, you can't turn it down and expect to be a viable candidate later. Brexit is not a "hot" potato it's more like a napalm pineapple. If you pick it up your not getting away without severe burns. I see someone is familiar with Boris Johnson's playbook! Yes, that's blatantly his aim. He wants to be PM after all this has blown over and proclaim to the nation 'look, I am the man who wanted this, I am the man to lead you in this era!' He was counting on remain winning the referendum, not leave.
Now that you mention the police payment gaffe I remember reading the article you posted back then lmao.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
On May 26 2019 07:50 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2019 03:42 iamthedave wrote:On May 24 2019 21:41 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 24 2019 20:36 iamthedave wrote:On May 24 2019 00:24 Artisreal wrote:On May 24 2019 00:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 23 2019 16:48 m4ini wrote:I was quite proud of the UK political sphere for not turning Jo Cox into a martyr for particular political positions, I hope that bit of restraint over a horrifying moment isn’t going to be abandoned now.
Turning someone into a martyr and pointing out how fucking idiotic fake outrage over a milkshake is by reminding people of the right wing equivalent of "milkshake throwing left wing terrorists/radicals" are two very different things. If it makes you sleep better, i'll point out Tommy Robinsons "speech" on the weekend, where a few followers were taken in by the police for violence (throwing bricks and eggs at the police and counter protesters). All the while making up stories about people being stabbed and shot beforehand (which the police already clarified are bullshit). Not for the first time either, btw - his "speeches" seem to have an interesting effect on the poor, milkshake-PTSD suffering right wingers. “Nearly all of the time an egg is an egg, and a milkshake is a milkshake. We, in the [Secret Service], on President Bush, in the post 9/11 era didn't consider that stuff to be ‘political violence’ in the absence of evidence of intent to cause actual harm,” he tweeted.
“We had eggs thrown. We had powder thrown. We had drinks thrown. I had a frappucino thrown at us in a motorcade. Mostly, this stuff never made the press, George Bush had a valet with a spare suit and a good attitude.
“FFS, Nigel, Carl, Stephen. You got a whole posse of handlers and factotums. Keep a change of clothes handy and man up.
That's from a former ranking member of the secret service, for bush no less. If one of "your" guys is telling you to man up and stop being a pussy, making a drama out of "radical left wing milkshake terrorism", you might want to take the hint (not aimed at Wombat). Tommy Robinson isn’t Farage, and Farage isn’t all Brexit voters. Personally I find the odd milkshake pretty funny. My issue isn’t at all with that, it’s the wider political culture. It’s easier to argue politics if the other folks are all bad people, not generally decent people with a different political opinion. This has gone and diffused down all the way from top to bottom, and it’s really not a good thing. I’ll pick on Diane Abbott because she’s spoken about this more than others, if someone threw a milkshake at her there’d be a certain section up in arms about it. They’d write articles about her getting shit on Twitter and how it’s because she’s a black woman or something. Same folks will write, or at least think ‘fuck him he deserves it’ if it’s Farage. I have no numbers to hand but I’m pretty sure he must get a lot of abuse and threats too. Or vice versa as we’re seeing in a non-hypothetical, where the right tabloids that actually push articles about ‘snowflakes’ on their front pages writing as if Farage had been assassinated, which was utterly preposterous. The ‘rise’ of Tommy Robinson is absolutely regrettable, I’d he didn’t have at least some legitimate fuel to work with, that doesn’t happen. A striking difference could be that Abbott gets flack because she's a black person and/or a woman,rather than because of her policies. Meaning the same reason for her getting shit upon wouldn't get a white man in trouble. Farage gets flack because of his awful standpoints and lies. Not sure what you had in mind about Abbott though, couldn't really find something despicable about her just now. Diane Abbott's list of public fuck ups, gaffes and embarrassing moments is so long you'd think she was from UKIP. A white man would absolutely get shit for the stuff she's done; journalists love it when they catch a politician who clearly has no idea what they're talking about. I believe the only reason she has a job is she stuck by Corbyn when pretty much everyone else abandoned her, and she's been an anchor for his cause on multiple occasions. Not that I don't doubt some people go after her 'cause she's a black woman, but that is but one reason to have a go at Diane Abbott, and far from the best one. She was the country's first black MP, is the longest serving black MP. She has won every local election since 1987. You really don't think she deserves a top job? Why do you think her fuck ups get so much attention?? I think its 6 of one half a dozen of the other. She does screw up but when she does it gets blown way out of proportion given what the consequences of those mistakes are. Compare that to someone like Grayling, an old white man who has fucked up MORE THAN ONE essential public service in the UK and still has a top job and isn't constantly in the headlines. I think regardless of her standing and ability her mistakes would have seen her ousted if she weren't a Corbyn insider. She was a MASSIVE problem for him not so long ago because she kept saying stupid things on TV. Grayling has but a single talent as a politician: making himself unsackable. He's useless but he always manages to be useless in ways that guarantee him a job. Toadying up to the right people at the right times, supporting the right policies. He's protected the same way Abbott was. Only he's shitter at his job. On May 25 2019 02:20 Artisreal wrote:On May 24 2019 20:36 iamthedave wrote:On May 24 2019 00:24 Artisreal wrote:On May 24 2019 00:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 23 2019 16:48 m4ini wrote:I was quite proud of the UK political sphere for not turning Jo Cox into a martyr for particular political positions, I hope that bit of restraint over a horrifying moment isn’t going to be abandoned now.
Turning someone into a martyr and pointing out how fucking idiotic fake outrage over a milkshake is by reminding people of the right wing equivalent of "milkshake throwing left wing terrorists/radicals" are two very different things. If it makes you sleep better, i'll point out Tommy Robinsons "speech" on the weekend, where a few followers were taken in by the police for violence (throwing bricks and eggs at the police and counter protesters). All the while making up stories about people being stabbed and shot beforehand (which the police already clarified are bullshit). Not for the first time either, btw - his "speeches" seem to have an interesting effect on the poor, milkshake-PTSD suffering right wingers. “Nearly all of the time an egg is an egg, and a milkshake is a milkshake. We, in the [Secret Service], on President Bush, in the post 9/11 era didn't consider that stuff to be ‘political violence’ in the absence of evidence of intent to cause actual harm,” he tweeted.
“We had eggs thrown. We had powder thrown. We had drinks thrown. I had a frappucino thrown at us in a motorcade. Mostly, this stuff never made the press, George Bush had a valet with a spare suit and a good attitude.
“FFS, Nigel, Carl, Stephen. You got a whole posse of handlers and factotums. Keep a change of clothes handy and man up.
That's from a former ranking member of the secret service, for bush no less. If one of "your" guys is telling you to man up and stop being a pussy, making a drama out of "radical left wing milkshake terrorism", you might want to take the hint (not aimed at Wombat). Tommy Robinson isn’t Farage, and Farage isn’t all Brexit voters. Personally I find the odd milkshake pretty funny. My issue isn’t at all with that, it’s the wider political culture. It’s easier to argue politics if the other folks are all bad people, not generally decent people with a different political opinion. This has gone and diffused down all the way from top to bottom, and it’s really not a good thing. I’ll pick on Diane Abbott because she’s spoken about this more than others, if someone threw a milkshake at her there’d be a certain section up in arms about it. They’d write articles about her getting shit on Twitter and how it’s because she’s a black woman or something. Same folks will write, or at least think ‘fuck him he deserves it’ if it’s Farage. I have no numbers to hand but I’m pretty sure he must get a lot of abuse and threats too. Or vice versa as we’re seeing in a non-hypothetical, where the right tabloids that actually push articles about ‘snowflakes’ on their front pages writing as if Farage had been assassinated, which was utterly preposterous. The ‘rise’ of Tommy Robinson is absolutely regrettable, I’d he didn’t have at least some legitimate fuel to work with, that doesn’t happen. A striking difference could be that Abbott gets flack because she's a black person and/or a woman,rather than because of her policies. Meaning the same reason for her getting shit upon wouldn't get a white man in trouble. Farage gets flack because of his awful standpoints and lies. Not sure what you had in mind about Abbott though, couldn't really find something despicable about her just now. Diane Abbott's list of public fuck ups, gaffes and embarrassing moments is so long you'd think she was from UKIP. A white man would absolutely get shit for the stuff she's done; journalists love it when they catch a politician who clearly has no idea what they're talking about. I believe the only reason she has a job is she stuck by Corbyn when pretty much everyone else abandoned her, and she's been an anchor for his cause on multiple occasions. Not that I don't doubt some people go after her 'cause she's a black woman, but that is but one reason to have a go at Diane Abbott, and far from the best one. Thank you for bringin that to mind. I did a quick google search on my phone yesterday with "abbott scandal" and it was her drinking a can of mojito on the tube that came up on the first 2 pages. Wasn't that shocking to me but as I said I didn't dig into it further. Difference between a scandal and a fuck up. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/02/diane-abbott-has-several-numbers-on-police-costs-sadly-they-are-all-wrongThat one was a BIG fuck up, and the exact sort of thing that has cost ministers their jobs in the past because it makes the entire party - and in this case the party leader - look like idiots, since she was explicitly defending and expanding on one of Jeremy Corbyn's statements. She hasn't actually done anything egregiously wrong in a while, but she went through a very rocky patch a year or so ago. On May 26 2019 01:44 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote:On May 25 2019 10:40 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
Johnson is saying the UK will leave 31 October with or without a deal.
Seems like things are finally moving in the right direction. Or he's just trying to stir up things so he doesn't actually get to be PM. To me it looks like his plan is to avoid being in a position where he has to deal with the fallout of his shit at all costs while being able to sling as much shit as possible in order to keep his popularity up. Meanwhile staying as close to the throne as he can while waiting for someone else to clean up the mess, just in time for him to swoop in, blame everyone else (but himself) for not getting a better deal and THEN becoming PM. Of course it has to look like he's interested at all time, you can't turn it down and expect to be a viable candidate later. Brexit is not a "hot" potato it's more like a napalm pineapple. If you pick it up your not getting away without severe burns. I see someone is familiar with Boris Johnson's playbook! Yes, that's blatantly his aim. He wants to be PM after all this has blown over and proclaim to the nation 'look, I am the man who wanted this, I am the man to lead you in this era!' He was counting on remain winning the referendum, not leave. Now that you mention the police payment gaffe I remember reading the article you posted back then lmao.
As an aside Chris Grayling avoids the flak he so, so richly deserves basically because nobody outside of political needs even know who he is.
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On May 26 2019 03:42 iamthedave wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 21:41 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 24 2019 20:36 iamthedave wrote:On May 24 2019 00:24 Artisreal wrote:On May 24 2019 00:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 23 2019 16:48 m4ini wrote:I was quite proud of the UK political sphere for not turning Jo Cox into a martyr for particular political positions, I hope that bit of restraint over a horrifying moment isn’t going to be abandoned now.
Turning someone into a martyr and pointing out how fucking idiotic fake outrage over a milkshake is by reminding people of the right wing equivalent of "milkshake throwing left wing terrorists/radicals" are two very different things. If it makes you sleep better, i'll point out Tommy Robinsons "speech" on the weekend, where a few followers were taken in by the police for violence (throwing bricks and eggs at the police and counter protesters). All the while making up stories about people being stabbed and shot beforehand (which the police already clarified are bullshit). Not for the first time either, btw - his "speeches" seem to have an interesting effect on the poor, milkshake-PTSD suffering right wingers. “Nearly all of the time an egg is an egg, and a milkshake is a milkshake. We, in the [Secret Service], on President Bush, in the post 9/11 era didn't consider that stuff to be ‘political violence’ in the absence of evidence of intent to cause actual harm,” he tweeted.
“We had eggs thrown. We had powder thrown. We had drinks thrown. I had a frappucino thrown at us in a motorcade. Mostly, this stuff never made the press, George Bush had a valet with a spare suit and a good attitude.
“FFS, Nigel, Carl, Stephen. You got a whole posse of handlers and factotums. Keep a change of clothes handy and man up.
That's from a former ranking member of the secret service, for bush no less. If one of "your" guys is telling you to man up and stop being a pussy, making a drama out of "radical left wing milkshake terrorism", you might want to take the hint (not aimed at Wombat). Tommy Robinson isn’t Farage, and Farage isn’t all Brexit voters. Personally I find the odd milkshake pretty funny. My issue isn’t at all with that, it’s the wider political culture. It’s easier to argue politics if the other folks are all bad people, not generally decent people with a different political opinion. This has gone and diffused down all the way from top to bottom, and it’s really not a good thing. I’ll pick on Diane Abbott because she’s spoken about this more than others, if someone threw a milkshake at her there’d be a certain section up in arms about it. They’d write articles about her getting shit on Twitter and how it’s because she’s a black woman or something. Same folks will write, or at least think ‘fuck him he deserves it’ if it’s Farage. I have no numbers to hand but I’m pretty sure he must get a lot of abuse and threats too. Or vice versa as we’re seeing in a non-hypothetical, where the right tabloids that actually push articles about ‘snowflakes’ on their front pages writing as if Farage had been assassinated, which was utterly preposterous. The ‘rise’ of Tommy Robinson is absolutely regrettable, I’d he didn’t have at least some legitimate fuel to work with, that doesn’t happen. A striking difference could be that Abbott gets flack because she's a black person and/or a woman,rather than because of her policies. Meaning the same reason for her getting shit upon wouldn't get a white man in trouble. Farage gets flack because of his awful standpoints and lies. Not sure what you had in mind about Abbott though, couldn't really find something despicable about her just now. Diane Abbott's list of public fuck ups, gaffes and embarrassing moments is so long you'd think she was from UKIP. A white man would absolutely get shit for the stuff she's done; journalists love it when they catch a politician who clearly has no idea what they're talking about. I believe the only reason she has a job is she stuck by Corbyn when pretty much everyone else abandoned her, and she's been an anchor for his cause on multiple occasions. Not that I don't doubt some people go after her 'cause she's a black woman, but that is but one reason to have a go at Diane Abbott, and far from the best one. She was the country's first black MP, is the longest serving black MP. She has won every local election since 1987. You really don't think she deserves a top job? Why do you think her fuck ups get so much attention?? I think its 6 of one half a dozen of the other. She does screw up but when she does it gets blown way out of proportion given what the consequences of those mistakes are. Compare that to someone like Grayling, an old white man who has fucked up MORE THAN ONE essential public service in the UK and still has a top job and isn't constantly in the headlines. I think regardless of her standing and ability her mistakes would have seen her ousted if she weren't a Corbyn insider. She was a MASSIVE problem for him not so long ago because she kept saying stupid things on TV. Grayling has but a single talent as a politician: making himself unsackable. He's useless but he always manages to be useless in ways that guarantee him a job. Toadying up to the right people at the right times, supporting the right policies. He's protected the same way Abbott was. Only he's shitter at his job. Show nested quote +On May 25 2019 02:20 Artisreal wrote:On May 24 2019 20:36 iamthedave wrote:On May 24 2019 00:24 Artisreal wrote:On May 24 2019 00:04 Wombat_NI wrote:On May 23 2019 16:48 m4ini wrote:I was quite proud of the UK political sphere for not turning Jo Cox into a martyr for particular political positions, I hope that bit of restraint over a horrifying moment isn’t going to be abandoned now.
Turning someone into a martyr and pointing out how fucking idiotic fake outrage over a milkshake is by reminding people of the right wing equivalent of "milkshake throwing left wing terrorists/radicals" are two very different things. If it makes you sleep better, i'll point out Tommy Robinsons "speech" on the weekend, where a few followers were taken in by the police for violence (throwing bricks and eggs at the police and counter protesters). All the while making up stories about people being stabbed and shot beforehand (which the police already clarified are bullshit). Not for the first time either, btw - his "speeches" seem to have an interesting effect on the poor, milkshake-PTSD suffering right wingers. “Nearly all of the time an egg is an egg, and a milkshake is a milkshake. We, in the [Secret Service], on President Bush, in the post 9/11 era didn't consider that stuff to be ‘political violence’ in the absence of evidence of intent to cause actual harm,” he tweeted.
“We had eggs thrown. We had powder thrown. We had drinks thrown. I had a frappucino thrown at us in a motorcade. Mostly, this stuff never made the press, George Bush had a valet with a spare suit and a good attitude.
“FFS, Nigel, Carl, Stephen. You got a whole posse of handlers and factotums. Keep a change of clothes handy and man up.
That's from a former ranking member of the secret service, for bush no less. If one of "your" guys is telling you to man up and stop being a pussy, making a drama out of "radical left wing milkshake terrorism", you might want to take the hint (not aimed at Wombat). Tommy Robinson isn’t Farage, and Farage isn’t all Brexit voters. Personally I find the odd milkshake pretty funny. My issue isn’t at all with that, it’s the wider political culture. It’s easier to argue politics if the other folks are all bad people, not generally decent people with a different political opinion. This has gone and diffused down all the way from top to bottom, and it’s really not a good thing. I’ll pick on Diane Abbott because she’s spoken about this more than others, if someone threw a milkshake at her there’d be a certain section up in arms about it. They’d write articles about her getting shit on Twitter and how it’s because she’s a black woman or something. Same folks will write, or at least think ‘fuck him he deserves it’ if it’s Farage. I have no numbers to hand but I’m pretty sure he must get a lot of abuse and threats too. Or vice versa as we’re seeing in a non-hypothetical, where the right tabloids that actually push articles about ‘snowflakes’ on their front pages writing as if Farage had been assassinated, which was utterly preposterous. The ‘rise’ of Tommy Robinson is absolutely regrettable, I’d he didn’t have at least some legitimate fuel to work with, that doesn’t happen. A striking difference could be that Abbott gets flack because she's a black person and/or a woman,rather than because of her policies. Meaning the same reason for her getting shit upon wouldn't get a white man in trouble. Farage gets flack because of his awful standpoints and lies. Not sure what you had in mind about Abbott though, couldn't really find something despicable about her just now. Diane Abbott's list of public fuck ups, gaffes and embarrassing moments is so long you'd think she was from UKIP. A white man would absolutely get shit for the stuff she's done; journalists love it when they catch a politician who clearly has no idea what they're talking about. I believe the only reason she has a job is she stuck by Corbyn when pretty much everyone else abandoned her, and she's been an anchor for his cause on multiple occasions. Not that I don't doubt some people go after her 'cause she's a black woman, but that is but one reason to have a go at Diane Abbott, and far from the best one. Thank you for bringin that to mind. I did a quick google search on my phone yesterday with "abbott scandal" and it was her drinking a can of mojito on the tube that came up on the first 2 pages. Wasn't that shocking to me but as I said I didn't dig into it further. Difference between a scandal and a fuck up. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/may/02/diane-abbott-has-several-numbers-on-police-costs-sadly-they-are-all-wrongThat one was a BIG fuck up, and the exact sort of thing that has cost ministers their jobs in the past because it makes the entire party - and in this case the party leader - look like idiots, since she was explicitly defending and expanding on one of Jeremy Corbyn's statements. She hasn't actually done anything egregiously wrong in a while, but she went through a very rocky patch a year or so ago.
Philip Hammond was £20 billion out when asked about the cost of HS2 in an interview about a month after Abbott's mistakes on police numbers. Abbott's mistake was probably worse on its own but Hammond is the chancellor so should be expected to be competent with these things.
Hammond's mistake got less reporting at the time and has been largely forgotten whereas Abbott's mistake is still a source of jokes and ridicule. I think Abbott being in the Labour Party and not the Conservatives is the main reason for the difference in attention but there probably is a bit of racism/sexism in there too.
Or how about the foreign secretary saying Slovenia was a former vassal state of the Soviet Union when that was never true? I would not expect many people to know this but the foreign secretary should and definitely should do a bit of research before saying something like that in Slovenia.
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Northern Ireland26225 Posts
Well they should, absolutely. With Abbott she has name recognition and people know her, which can be both an asset and also a negative too, for reasons you mentioned.
Media has done a pretty bad job holding the Tories to account for regular governmental fuckups with Brexit overshadowing everything.
There’s also been a tendency to report and speculate on stuff like who will be Prime Minister, far more than reporting on the actual jobs Ministers have done too.
I’m pretty forgiving of the odd gaffe anyway, if it’s a gaffe and not actually being clueless about whatever you’re talking about. You’re not governing off the top of your head, you have figures to hand and civil servants to assist and implement, so to put too much weight into stuff you say in an environment that is not your actual job is wrong IMO.
Grayling and Phillip Hammond have important jobs but I’d wager way way more people know who Tommy Robinson is that those two and what their jobs are, their facelessness counts against them if they wanted the top job but is super useful if you want to coast along and make fuckups without too much attention. Failure of media there, although us regular folk are absolutely part of that with our tastes.
I can still remember quite a lot of Blair’s cabinets and who did what and some of the reshuffling, way better than the last few Tory ones. Not sure if that’s me following politics more closely when I was younger, them being more memorable or the media reporting more on them.
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So are Tories going to vote on whoever has the best plan to pass the UK-EU deal through commons and finally deliver Brexit?
Bit of a fucked up system that there aren't new elections, btw.
User was banned for this post.
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On May 27 2019 01:11 Rasalased wrote:
So are Tories going to vote on whoever has the best plan to pass the UK-EU deal through commons and finally deliver Brexit?
Bit of a fucked up system that there aren't new elections, btw.
There would be no candidates, if having such a plan would be a condition for getting the position.
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On May 27 2019 01:11 Rasalased wrote:
So are Tories going to vote on whoever has the best plan to pass the UK-EU deal through commons and finally deliver Brexit?
Bit of a fucked up system that there aren't new elections, btw.
Standard parliamentary procedure, people vote in the MPs and Party not the PM. If Parliament doesn't approve of the new leader they no confidence and we get an election.
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Then you have a new PM, who no one voted for, trying to pass a plan, which no one voted for, through Commons. It can only end in disaster.
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Not like the new PM gets a lot of choice in what plan to pass since the EU has repeated their stance that May's deal is the only deal they are offering.
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On May 27 2019 01:58 Gorsameth wrote:
Not like the new PM gets a lot of choice in what plan to pass since the EU has repeated their stance that May's deal is the only deal they are offering.
If that really struck home with the English politicians we would not have that severe of a contest against May's deal.
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United States43539 Posts
On May 27 2019 01:54 Rasalased wrote:
It can only end in disaster.
Brexit summarized.
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On May 27 2019 02:06 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2019 01:58 Gorsameth wrote:
Not like the new PM gets a lot of choice in what plan to pass since the EU has repeated their stance that May's deal is the only deal they are offering. If that really struck home with the English politicians we would not have that severe of a contest against May's deal. Oh they know, they just don't care because the goal is to deliver a hard Brexit without being blamed for the problems that will arise from it.
So you say every deal on the table is bad for X reason, saying you'll do better while making sure you never actually get into a position where you have to actually DO better and wait for the EU to get tired of it and force a hard exit or some PM to withdraw article 50 at which point you loudly proclaim the people have been ignored.
There is a reason May was never voted out despite no one liking her deals. Because no one wants the job and May was the fall-guy(girl) who was supposed to be shovelled full of the blame for their vision. To bad for them that she kept being able to postpone the date and has now quit.
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On May 27 2019 01:58 Gorsameth wrote:
Not like the new PM gets a lot of choice in what plan to pass since the EU has repeated their stance that May's deal is the only deal they are offering.
Not really true as there are more than two options to choose from. PM candidates should present their plan to pass the deal, survive no deal, or remain. Then people get to vote and they can carry this out.
Now we get a competition among Tory candidates about who can come up with the toughest anti-EU rhetoric. And whoever does that, wins. And then they have to keep up that rhetoric or risk being stabbed in the back.
Which will then finally end in a revocation of article 50.
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current forecast for European elections in the UK:
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I read minus fifteen and plus twenty nine.
the UK getting fourteen more MEPs?
The list totals 70, the UK currently has 73 MEPs.
Kinda wonky
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On May 27 2019 04:21 Artisreal wrote:
I read minus fifteen and plus twenty nine.
the UK getting fourteen more MEPs?
The list totals 70, the UK currently has 73 MEPs.
Kinda wonky Because it doesn't list UKIP's 24 seats they got in 2014 which is the same as the Brexit Party got now (and Brexit party is basically UKIP with a new name) and then the graphic makes sense
- for Brexit/UKIP 2.0
+14 for Libdems
+1 for Greens
-6 Labor
-9 Conservatives.
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EPT
