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On March 28 2019 22:39 FueledUpAndReadyToGo wrote:It's interesting to read articles from 29 march 2017 now. May saying this: Show nested quote +In a statement in the Commons, Mrs May said: "Today the government acts on the democratic will of the British people and it acts too on the clear and convincing position of this House." Little did she know how unclear and unconvincing the house would be two years later.
Also note that 2 months later Theresa May decided to hold a snap election, thus removing a clear and convincing position of the House of Commons.
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On March 28 2019 22:04 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2019 21:55 pmh wrote:
Tomorrow they are going to vote on May,s deal again and this time it will pass.
3 times a charm. Source? Andrea Leadsom is in the Parliament right now saying the motion for tomorrow hasn't been finalized yet. What goes around is that they might bring just the WA to a vote, not the political declaration, and both need to be agreed on together for the UK to ratify the deal. It's unclear what the point would be or even if they are allowed to do it. A vote on the WA in a vacuum would probably pass since Labour's objection is with the PD.
Common sense. There is no other option,from all options available passing Mays deal seems to be the least bad even for the hardline brexiteers. The backstop is a theoretical thing,it might not even be needed and when it turns out to be needed then it will be will dealt with the moment its there,just to be able to move forward now.
I think people want to get it over with now,another 2 years of this does not seem appealing at all.
Maybe I am wrong,definitly possible. tomorrow we will see.
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This is probably the most comprehensive summary and analysis of the Brexit process I've read so far. Worth a read!
https://www.politico.eu/article/how-uk-lost-brexit-eu-negotiation/
€: As far as I've read earlier Corbyn has pretty much ruled out Labour voting for May's deal, even if it should only be the WA, because they know it's tied to the declaration.
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On March 28 2019 23:08 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 28 2019 22:04 Longshank wrote:On March 28 2019 21:55 pmh wrote:
Tomorrow they are going to vote on May,s deal again and this time it will pass.
3 times a charm. Source? Andrea Leadsom is in the Parliament right now saying the motion for tomorrow hasn't been finalized yet. What goes around is that they might bring just the WA to a vote, not the political declaration, and both need to be agreed on together for the UK to ratify the deal. It's unclear what the point would be or even if they are allowed to do it. A vote on the WA in a vacuum would probably pass since Labour's objection is with the PD. Common sense. There is no other option,from all options available passing Mays deal seems to be the least bad even for the hardline brexiteers. The backstop is a theoretical thing,it might not even be needed and when it turns out to be needed then it will be will dealt with the moment its there,just to be able to move forward now. I think people want to get it over with now,another 2 years of this does not seem appealing at all. Maybe I am wrong,definitly possible. tomorrow we will see.
Problem here of course is that even if all hardline brexiters would vote for it, you still need the DUP to vote for it as well. And they made abundantly clear that they won't.
From what i can tell, they're not voting on Mays deal directly, but on the withdrawal agreement without political declaration. Labour (Keir Starmer) and DUP (Nigel Dodds) already came out saying that they'll vote against it. edit: Plaid Cymru too, and Corbyn simply said "No" when asked if Labour would vote in favour on the WA alone.
MPs will be asked to vote on motion tomorrow approving the withdrawal agreement (the long, legally-binding treaty covering the backstop, payments to the EU and citizens’ rights), part of Theresa May’s Brexit deal. MPs will not be asked to approve the second part of the deal – the political declaration, the much shorter text setting out plans for the future relationship.
Ministers seem to have abandoned plans for MV3 - meaningful vote three - a vote which would have involved MPs being asked for the third time to approve the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration. Instead, if the government wins the debate tomorrow (WA1 – withdrawal agreement one) it plans to press ahead with a debate on the EU withdrawal agreement bill.
This could be used to amend section 13 of the EU Withdrawal Act, which requires MPs to pass a resolution combining the withdrawal agreement and the political declaration for the withdrawal agreement to be ratified. Labour MPs have questioned whether this is legal. Geoffrey Cox, the attorney general, has said what the government is doing is legal, and he has said he will give more details tomorrow when he opens the debate.
Mays deal will not be up for vote again. You could argue that it's a dickmove by Bercow, but he does have ground to stand on.
edit: @above, indeed a good text, read that earlier as well. After that, i'm even more inclined to say that the EUs approach was the correct one. Keeping it legal, instead of political, is something UK politicians, where many things are based on "conventions, courtesies etc" are not used to. I think that's the main discrepancy, since there's still politicians (this morning) arguing that May should go back to the EU and renegotiate. There seems to be an inherent lack of grasp on how all this works, only slowly dawning on some.
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On March 29 2019 04:12 korrekt wrote:This is probably the most comprehensive summary and analysis of the Brexit process I've read so far. Worth a read! https://www.politico.eu/article/how-uk-lost-brexit-eu-negotiation/€: As far as I've read earlier Corbyn has pretty much ruled out Labour voting for May's deal, even if it should only be the WA, because they know it's tied to the declaration.
Yeah, I wasn't suggesting they would be voting for it tomorrow, just that Corbyn's deal accepts the WA(more or less) as it stands. It would be much easier for everyone involved if we WERE living in a vacuum.
The Government's motion for tomorrow seems to be borderline in conflict with the withdrawal act which states the WA and the PD are linked and need to be passed as one. Maybe they've found some sneaky way around that, AG Cox seemed to think so while other lawyers in Parliament did not, but expect a rowdy and tempered debate tomorrow.
edit: really good read, thanks for sharing.
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United States42884 Posts
On March 28 2019 20:26 Simberto wrote:
The result is not really relevant. At this point the UK has made it clear that they want to leave. It would be very delegitimizing for the EU parliament if there are UK people in it after the UK leaves, and a whole clusterfuck to kick them out afterwards once the UK actually leaves.
Also, the UK themselves have stated that they will not be able to hold EU elections in May because that involves a lot of time for planning and organisation.
The UK has far from made it clear that they want to leave. The one thing the UK has made clear is that they have no idea what they want.
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I mostly meant that they have invoked article 50 with that sentence.
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What is funny and quite sad is that this part of the Brexit negotiations is the easy part. When the trade negotiations starts, that's when it gets hard.
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Hard? HARD??? But the UK holds all the cards! Surely the largest trading block in the world will get thrashed by an economy a tenth its size. No my dear sir, britain will prevail, and return to the great glory that was the british empire. *british anthem plays*
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On March 29 2019 18:04 Neneu wrote:
What is funny and quite sad is that this part of the Brexit negotiations is the easy part. When the trade negotiations starts, that's when it gets hard.
No that is not true! Liam Fox said that the free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same.
Source:
https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-history
Additionally he said: "I hear people saying 'oh we won't have any [free trade agreements] before we leave'. Well believe me we'll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019,"
Source:
https://www.businessinsider.de/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-the-second-after-brexit-2017-10?r=US&IR=T
So, since he is one of the most competent politicians I do not think that there is anything to worry about. I mean, right now the UK has already agreed deals with:
Caribbean countries, Pacific Islands, Israel, Palestinian Authority, Switzerland, The Faroe Islands, Eastern and Southern Africa and Chile.
Thus, if you count them correctly, those are eight agreed upon trade deals. Now, there are basically only trade deals with the EU, USA, China and perhaps some other little economies like Japan or Canada (lets call them Others because listing each of them is too troublesome because certainly they do not account for a large part of UK's trade volume on their own). So, having agreed upon eight trade deals while four are still left to sort out basically means that 66 percent of the work is already done. Easy as that. I cannot see how Brexit would constitute any kind of serious impediment for UK's foreign trade. Not at all!
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On March 29 2019 19:10 Xophy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2019 18:04 Neneu wrote:
What is funny and quite sad is that this part of the Brexit negotiations is the easy part. When the trade negotiations starts, that's when it gets hard. No that is not true! Liam Fox said that the free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-historyAdditionally he said: "I hear people saying 'oh we won't have any [free trade agreements] before we leave'. Well believe me we'll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019," Source: https://www.businessinsider.de/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-the-second-after-brexit-2017-10?r=US&IR=TSo, since he is one of the most competent politicians I do not think that there is anything to worry about. I mean, right now the UK has already agreed deals with: Caribbean countries, Pacific Islands, Israel, Palestinian Authority, Switzerland, The Faroe Islands, Eastern and Southern Africa and Chile. Thus, if you count them correctly, those are eight agreed upon trade deals. Now, there are basically only trade deals with the EU, USA, China and perhaps some other little economies like Japan or Canada (lets call them Others because listing each of them is too troublesome because certainly they do not account for a large part of UK's trade volume on their own). So, having agreed upon eight trade deals while four are still left to sort out basically means that 66 percent of the work is already done. Easy as that. I cannot see how Brexit would constitute any kind of serious impediment for UK's foreign trade. Not at all!
But those four make up for probably 80% of the whole trade. So no, I don't think this will be ezpz
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On March 29 2019 19:48 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2019 19:10 Xophy wrote:On March 29 2019 18:04 Neneu wrote:
What is funny and quite sad is that this part of the Brexit negotiations is the easy part. When the trade negotiations starts, that's when it gets hard. No that is not true! Liam Fox said that the free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-historyAdditionally he said: "I hear people saying 'oh we won't have any [free trade agreements] before we leave'. Well believe me we'll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019," Source: https://www.businessinsider.de/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-the-second-after-brexit-2017-10?r=US&IR=TSo, since he is one of the most competent politicians I do not think that there is anything to worry about. I mean, right now the UK has already agreed deals with: Caribbean countries, Pacific Islands, Israel, Palestinian Authority, Switzerland, The Faroe Islands, Eastern and Southern Africa and Chile. Thus, if you count them correctly, those are eight agreed upon trade deals. Now, there are basically only trade deals with the EU, USA, China and perhaps some other little economies like Japan or Canada (lets call them Others because listing each of them is too troublesome because certainly they do not account for a large part of UK's trade volume on their own). So, having agreed upon eight trade deals while four are still left to sort out basically means that 66 percent of the work is already done. Easy as that. I cannot see how Brexit would constitute any kind of serious impediment for UK's foreign trade. Not at all! But those four make up for probably 80% of the whole trade. So no, I don't think this will be ezpz This is a general service announcement, your sarcasm detector is broken.
Please see a qualified repairmen
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On March 29 2019 19:49 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2019 19:48 Harris1st wrote:On March 29 2019 19:10 Xophy wrote:On March 29 2019 18:04 Neneu wrote:
What is funny and quite sad is that this part of the Brexit negotiations is the easy part. When the trade negotiations starts, that's when it gets hard. No that is not true! Liam Fox said that the free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-historyAdditionally he said: "I hear people saying 'oh we won't have any [free trade agreements] before we leave'. Well believe me we'll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019," Source: https://www.businessinsider.de/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-the-second-after-brexit-2017-10?r=US&IR=TSo, since he is one of the most competent politicians I do not think that there is anything to worry about. I mean, right now the UK has already agreed deals with: Caribbean countries, Pacific Islands, Israel, Palestinian Authority, Switzerland, The Faroe Islands, Eastern and Southern Africa and Chile. Thus, if you count them correctly, those are eight agreed upon trade deals. Now, there are basically only trade deals with the EU, USA, China and perhaps some other little economies like Japan or Canada (lets call them Others because listing each of them is too troublesome because certainly they do not account for a large part of UK's trade volume on their own). So, having agreed upon eight trade deals while four are still left to sort out basically means that 66 percent of the work is already done. Easy as that. I cannot see how Brexit would constitute any kind of serious impediment for UK's foreign trade. Not at all! But those four make up for probably 80% of the whole trade. So no, I don't think this will be ezpz This is a general service announcement, your sarcasm detector is broken. Please see a qualified repairmen
But it was posted by a German. We don't have humor!
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On March 29 2019 19:50 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2019 19:49 Gorsameth wrote:On March 29 2019 19:48 Harris1st wrote:On March 29 2019 19:10 Xophy wrote:On March 29 2019 18:04 Neneu wrote:
What is funny and quite sad is that this part of the Brexit negotiations is the easy part. When the trade negotiations starts, that's when it gets hard. No that is not true! Liam Fox said that the free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-historyAdditionally he said: "I hear people saying 'oh we won't have any [free trade agreements] before we leave'. Well believe me we'll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019," Source: https://www.businessinsider.de/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-the-second-after-brexit-2017-10?r=US&IR=TSo, since he is one of the most competent politicians I do not think that there is anything to worry about. I mean, right now the UK has already agreed deals with: Caribbean countries, Pacific Islands, Israel, Palestinian Authority, Switzerland, The Faroe Islands, Eastern and Southern Africa and Chile. Thus, if you count them correctly, those are eight agreed upon trade deals. Now, there are basically only trade deals with the EU, USA, China and perhaps some other little economies like Japan or Canada (lets call them Others because listing each of them is too troublesome because certainly they do not account for a large part of UK's trade volume on their own). So, having agreed upon eight trade deals while four are still left to sort out basically means that 66 percent of the work is already done. Easy as that. I cannot see how Brexit would constitute any kind of serious impediment for UK's foreign trade. Not at all! But those four make up for probably 80% of the whole trade. So no, I don't think this will be ezpz This is a general service announcement, your sarcasm detector is broken. Please see a qualified repairmen But it was posted by a German. We don't have humor!
Clearly he's the exception to the rule. While you, sir, are not 
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On March 29 2019 19:50 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2019 19:49 Gorsameth wrote:On March 29 2019 19:48 Harris1st wrote:On March 29 2019 19:10 Xophy wrote:On March 29 2019 18:04 Neneu wrote:
What is funny and quite sad is that this part of the Brexit negotiations is the easy part. When the trade negotiations starts, that's when it gets hard. No that is not true! Liam Fox said that the free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-historyAdditionally he said: "I hear people saying 'oh we won't have any [free trade agreements] before we leave'. Well believe me we'll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019," Source: https://www.businessinsider.de/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-the-second-after-brexit-2017-10?r=US&IR=TSo, since he is one of the most competent politicians I do not think that there is anything to worry about. I mean, right now the UK has already agreed deals with: Caribbean countries, Pacific Islands, Israel, Palestinian Authority, Switzerland, The Faroe Islands, Eastern and Southern Africa and Chile. Thus, if you count them correctly, those are eight agreed upon trade deals. Now, there are basically only trade deals with the EU, USA, China and perhaps some other little economies like Japan or Canada (lets call them Others because listing each of them is too troublesome because certainly they do not account for a large part of UK's trade volume on their own). So, having agreed upon eight trade deals while four are still left to sort out basically means that 66 percent of the work is already done. Easy as that. I cannot see how Brexit would constitute any kind of serious impediment for UK's foreign trade. Not at all! But those four make up for probably 80% of the whole trade. So no, I don't think this will be ezpz This is a general service announcement, your sarcasm detector is broken. Please see a qualified repairmen But it was posted by a German. We don't have humor!
Correct, Xophy, please report to the nearest authorities for an emergency medical and psychological evaluation.
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On March 29 2019 19:50 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2019 19:49 Gorsameth wrote:On March 29 2019 19:48 Harris1st wrote:On March 29 2019 19:10 Xophy wrote:On March 29 2019 18:04 Neneu wrote:
What is funny and quite sad is that this part of the Brexit negotiations is the easy part. When the trade negotiations starts, that's when it gets hard. No that is not true! Liam Fox said that the free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-historyAdditionally he said: "I hear people saying 'oh we won't have any [free trade agreements] before we leave'. Well believe me we'll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019," Source: https://www.businessinsider.de/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-the-second-after-brexit-2017-10?r=US&IR=TSo, since he is one of the most competent politicians I do not think that there is anything to worry about. I mean, right now the UK has already agreed deals with: Caribbean countries, Pacific Islands, Israel, Palestinian Authority, Switzerland, The Faroe Islands, Eastern and Southern Africa and Chile. Thus, if you count them correctly, those are eight agreed upon trade deals. Now, there are basically only trade deals with the EU, USA, China and perhaps some other little economies like Japan or Canada (lets call them Others because listing each of them is too troublesome because certainly they do not account for a large part of UK's trade volume on their own). So, having agreed upon eight trade deals while four are still left to sort out basically means that 66 percent of the work is already done. Easy as that. I cannot see how Brexit would constitute any kind of serious impediment for UK's foreign trade. Not at all! But those four make up for probably 80% of the whole trade. So no, I don't think this will be ezpz This is a general service announcement, your sarcasm detector is broken. Please see a qualified repairmen But it was posted by a German. We don't have humor!
Come on, that was so blatantly obvious, it cannot be called sarcasm anymore ... more like 100 percent resignation about the whole situation ...
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Poe's law and brexit. How to distinguish the parody and the real?
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On March 29 2019 20:09 Xophy wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2019 19:50 Harris1st wrote:On March 29 2019 19:49 Gorsameth wrote:On March 29 2019 19:48 Harris1st wrote:On March 29 2019 19:10 Xophy wrote:On March 29 2019 18:04 Neneu wrote:
What is funny and quite sad is that this part of the Brexit negotiations is the easy part. When the trade negotiations starts, that's when it gets hard. No that is not true! Liam Fox said that the free trade agreement with the EU should be "one of the easiest in human history" because our rules and laws are already the same. Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-40667879/eu-trade-deal-easiest-in-human-historyAdditionally he said: "I hear people saying 'oh we won't have any [free trade agreements] before we leave'. Well believe me we'll have up to 40 ready for one second after midnight in March 2019," Source: https://www.businessinsider.de/liam-fox-promises-to-sign-40-free-trade-deals-the-second-after-brexit-2017-10?r=US&IR=TSo, since he is one of the most competent politicians I do not think that there is anything to worry about. I mean, right now the UK has already agreed deals with: Caribbean countries, Pacific Islands, Israel, Palestinian Authority, Switzerland, The Faroe Islands, Eastern and Southern Africa and Chile. Thus, if you count them correctly, those are eight agreed upon trade deals. Now, there are basically only trade deals with the EU, USA, China and perhaps some other little economies like Japan or Canada (lets call them Others because listing each of them is too troublesome because certainly they do not account for a large part of UK's trade volume on their own). So, having agreed upon eight trade deals while four are still left to sort out basically means that 66 percent of the work is already done. Easy as that. I cannot see how Brexit would constitute any kind of serious impediment for UK's foreign trade. Not at all! But those four make up for probably 80% of the whole trade. So no, I don't think this will be ezpz This is a general service announcement, your sarcasm detector is broken. Please see a qualified repairmen But it was posted by a German. We don't have humor! Come on, that was so blatantly obvious, it cannot be called sarcasm anymore ... more like 100 percent resignation about the whole situation ...
I guess you have never talked to a flatearther? They are dead serious about it 
On topic:
What's the verdict on todays vote?
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On March 29 2019 20:38 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Poe's law and brexit. How to distinguish the parody and the real?
You have to leave the EU and get enough distance all of this to get back to normal.
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On March 29 2019 21:30 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 29 2019 20:38 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Poe's law and brexit. How to distinguish the parody and the real? You have to leave the EU and get enough distance all of this to get back to normal.
That of course isn't going to happen. Many people seem to think that on May 22 (or April 12, depending), the entire show is over, when in reality it actually just starts. And remainers will always blame brexiters for anything shitty that comes their way (rightfully so btw).
This is like arguing that to get the US unified, you just need to get rid of Trump. As if the next democratic president wouldn't cause the same divide, just the other way around now that "the right" feels that all restraints are off.
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EPT
