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On March 21 2019 22:31 pmh wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 05:32 Jockmcplop wrote:On March 21 2019 05:28 Gorsameth wrote:On March 21 2019 05:13 Jockmcplop wrote:
I hope Corbyn and May both resign soon.
They don't know how to do their respective jobs. May's past exploits aside I think she has done what she can with a useless situation. There exists no deal that can get through Parliament, she tried the only deal she could get from the EU twice. Doing anything else is going against the people's will (stupid tho the people are). Its lose-lose-lose no matter what way you turn. Yes but she could have started the process of trying to get agreement from Parliament 2 years ago instead of 2 months ago and everything would have been much less stupid. There was no plan, and no plan to start planning. This lasted until around 90 days before Brexit. You're wrong about May, and wrong about her government. The level of incompetence and arrogance they have displayed is shocking and the biggest factor in the mess we are in now is her decision to keep delaying the important discussions for over 2 years. I don't think this was an option,2 years ago there was not a deal negotiated that parliament could have voted on. A deal has to be negotiated first before it can be voted on. They couldn't have done more 2 years ago,the only decision then was to leave or stay. Or should they have waited 2 years with article 50,first see if a deal can be reached and then if not simply not invoking article 50? Its going to get cancelled,britisch politicians never wanted to leave. There is a petition going viral now on a uk government website to cancel the brexit,it has 1m votes already apearently. Its not the first petition of this sort and I doubt it will make a big difference but still. Tories and labour should cancel brexit together,none of them is going to do it on their own. Or they should now accept the deal that there is,what else is there left to do besides further delay without any real prospect on a solution. You can't see if you can reach a deal before invoking article 50 because the EU would simply not negotiate until the UK formalised that they were leaving.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On March 21 2019 22:38 Dangermousecatdog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 21 2019 22:16 Pandemona wrote:On March 21 2019 21:29 Velr wrote:On March 21 2019 21:10 Pandemona wrote:On March 21 2019 18:59 Excludos wrote:On March 21 2019 18:21 Pandemona wrote:
The vote was to leave the EU plain and simple. It comes down to how you interpreted it with or without a deal, but it was straight up voted for as a divorce from the EU due to the money we were spending etc etc.
Now whether wrong or right, that is the "will of the people" they are calling for in Parliament, which is right.
The giving people a vote back will do nothing but cause more mayhem, it will again be another close vote and again each side will cause uprorar when they lose/win. Lots of people have "changed sides", i went from voting to stay first time round, to now if i had another choice i would vote to leave, but that works both ways, people who voted to leave will now vote to stay.
Most of the general consensus in the UK right now, is that this has gone on so long and our government is so stupid that we just want it over, regardless of staying in or leaving, just make a freaking decision. Mr Speaker has now delayed that even further with not allowing May to bring her deal back again which in fairness might have actually gotten through, even if it didn't nothing would have been lost. We are now going to delay until June 30th and nothing will change in the mean time.
UK hasn't shot themselves in the foot either, we survived more than long enough before the EU came along and we will survive without it again if that becomes the case. Out of morbid curiosity, what in the world made you look at the ongoing shitshow and somehow change your opinion from "stay" to "leave"? The reason they're having so much trouble to begin with is because there are no good ways to leave where UK remains in a good position after. The deals that are on the table and at all possible puts UK in a weaker position, and doesn't even grant them the red lines that the referendum was crusading on to begin with. No deal is going to be absolutely destructive for the UKs economy. Not to mention the border issues in Ireland. There are no good things to come out of this, and anyone remotely educated on the subject knew this before the referendum. Unfortunately, lies playing on the emotions of xenophobia and sentimentality tends to be stronger than the truth. It is quite clear for me as it is down to the arrogance that the EU had handled these negotiations. Some of the wording of statements from Tusk is disgusting and add in the petty swipes from France and sometimes Germany is awful to read and listen too. People act like the EU is the godsend to the world and makes everything ok which is far from it, they WANT and birthed Article 13 ffs. People also forget why the European Union was made and what it was sold to everyone as....it was sold as a customs trade union AND THAT IS. Nothing else, yet it has evolved into a huge powerhouse run by a select few which is far from fair in the eyes of a lot of people. Now this isn't to say that it doesn't do some good, but just like all governments across the world it also does its fair share of bad. This is why i do not mind if we stay or leave. Iirc this view that the EU was "only a customs/trade union" is a very british view. At least the vote about the EWR in Switzerland back in 1992(?) was lost exactly because the EU, the EWR was seen as prestage to membership, was allways portraied as more than just a trade union/deal. For eastern european countries the EU is also "protection" from Russia... Now i don't know if your media or politicians lied to you for the last ~30 years but judging by the knowledge the average Brexiteer had (and many still have) about the EU it seems like you just didn't care and your politicians/media just used the EU as the boogeyman for everything bad that happened in the UK. Btw: I love how the EU is seen as undemocratic while your head of state is an actual queen and seat by birthright in the house of lords is still a thing. We joined after being veto'd twice by Gualle French priminister in the 60s twice!! Before finally being accepted in by 1972 i think it was. The reason we entered is because then the EU6 were all doing better than us economically and we joined to get a piece of this alongside Norway, Ireland and Denmark i think it was? But then literally in the 80s Maggie Thatcher was going to war with a lot of them over things like payments and the fact it was beginning to start to become a "powerhouse" in which Brussels was trying its hardest to grab at. This caused a stir and was the start of her downfall in the conservative party as at that point they were the strong believers in the EU and the reason we were in it in the first place. But we joined based on the fact that the EU6 were way stronger economically due to the trade deals they had and it took us a while to get in because of the deals we had in place with US and the commonwealth, but once the US signaled their support for the EU we were free to ask to join. But back then that is all it was sold to us as, not sure if there was anything more back then but that is what it was. Pay into a customs union type trade treaty. On March 21 2019 22:02 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Excludos, I wouldn't put any stock in Pandemona saying that he voted for stay but now supports leave, as he has consistently expressed "leave" (if I am being kind) or UKIP (if I am not being as kind) talking points consistently even before the referendum, be it on issues like trade, or immigration, "taking back control", paying money to the EU or indeed in this case the "will of the people" and has never really said anything in favour of staying.
In fact I would go so far as to say that he just regurgitates Daily Mail and UKIP slogans, if memory serves of the referendum. Take back control, 350 million, the people have spoken, romanian hordes, I'm sure they are all phrases he has written here. I voted to stay? I have not changed my mind on that for a while, i didn't mind losing the vote but never thought we would. I have never stated any of what you suggested either you are clearly confusing me with someone else. So please do not do that, that is not fair unless you back it up because i have not said anything like that at all. Have you actually ever said anything in favour of stay? Because when you regurgitate Daily Mail headlines and UKIP slogans in the forums consistently since and before the referendum, I'll have a hard time beleiving that you voted remain.
If there is a way to get my vote back or find out i am more than happy to show you. My parents voted to leave but i voted to remain, why? Because David Cameron a primeminister i liked and respected due to his charm and reasoning told me it was the best cause. Just the same way as i could somehow listen to anything Tony Blair said and believe him, when you have politicians like Cameron and Blair who can "charm you" with words into believing what they tell you that is what happens, i went from a staunch labour voter into a conservative voter for what happened post Blair and i guess at the end of Blair...
But anyway i digress, i voted to remain, that was the best option i believed in at the time. I have lost said vote, now i have to somehow find peace in how we get out with what is best. I think what is best personally if it was up to me, would be the deal May has on the table right now, the EU are happy with it and our Primeminister is happy with it, so i want that to be done.
I don't even read the daily mail btw, can't stand it. I read the Telegraph but only for sport...as they have the best incite to my club i follow, the rest of my news i get from external articles on the internet, from Sky News to BBC News and to straight up googling the situation that way. So whilst you might not agree with what i say, i am not making you agree with what i say but dont put me into a bracket of people because of it. I have not done that with you.
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I distinctively remember you saying that you support and voted UKIP and something on that lines. Something about taking back control, and not giving money to the EU and stuff about the EU will disintegrate and some actually really venomous things about romanians and bulgarians. That to me is not someone who would vote remain, except to say this as a talking point to strengthen his leave arguments.
I mean have you ever come up with a single reason for remain? It's hard to take it at face value when you have done nothing but cheer for leave. Aren't kidding me that it is EU negotiation tactics that made you switch, when you already think that the EU is arrogant anyways, not to say anything of UK arrogance in negotitation.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
I have never voted for UKIP what the hell lol. I was Labour until Blair left and have been Tory voting since Cameron took control.
You are clearly confusing me as someone else, i would never post "vulgar" stuff on Romanians and Bulgarians on TL.net as part of their staff...that is a way for me to get fired pretty quickly. Just as others have done in the past. Also if you really knew me you would know i have no problems with Romanians at all! I have dated several of them in the past if that helps as well?
Reasons to remain were clear that is why i voted for it, but that is not happening now is it. The vote was lost and everyone in the government said they want to leave but with a deal. So that is done is it not? Why beat on about it, i don't get that side of the argument RIGHT NOW, beforehand sure. Beforehand the reasons for staying was to keep the status quo, our economy is fine, everyone is happy, we have control or have veto options on European law and can protect eachother better. There is of course pros to it, the ability to hire workers from Europe is also a big plus, nurses, farm workers everything, so helpful for specific pieces of the UK wheel as it were.
UKIP lived and died in a span around the debate of the referendum, when it was clear the conversvatives would fold from the pressure and give the vote, UKIP died overnight and now it no longer even exists. I would never support UKIP because they are based around racism and beliefs that are not helpful for any country. Please don't tar me with that brush and if you have, try and see it from a different light now, or better yet just ignore me. I am not making you read or agree with anything i type, if you think im an idiot which i won't judge you for, you are free to do so just dont try and weave your opinion about me on others without proof that isn't fair.
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Actually stuff all that; I just searched "Pandemona" and "UKIP" and this is what I got. This is just UKIP mind you:
On September 20 2014 00:11 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 00:05 SCkad wrote:On September 19 2014 23:41 Pandemona wrote:On September 19 2014 23:28 SCkad wrote:On September 19 2014 21:54 Pandemona wrote:On September 19 2014 21:51 heliusx wrote:
I'm interested in how this vote will effect scotland. Nearly half want out the UK and I can't blame them. 2 Million people voted no 1.6 Million voted yes 4 "constituencies" out of 32 had a majority vote of yes. The capital of Scotland was a 61-39 in favor of No. I don't see how people can write nearly half  Glasgow, the second biggest city voted 53-47% in favor of yes. 194,000 Yes 169,000 No. One more, Dundee the "biggest" yes campaign city/constituency of them all, had a 57% Yes 42% No swing. 53,000 Yes 39,000 No. Pretty sure they want to stay a part of the UK. Also don't forget 16 year olds were allowed to vote in this election, with "according to experts" the majority were voting Yes. The older generation are the ones who votes no. Nitpicking here but your technically wrong about Glasgow. This Source highlights something not everyone realises, but Glasgow is actually the Biggest city in Scotland, Edinburgh is only the capitol due to it being the location of Scottish monarchy. Living in Dundee though there are a fair amount of disappointed faces, especially amongst the younger voters. I think the British government really has no choice but to go through with the campaign promises now or another referendum will be held in the future and Scotland will move away Oh ok fair enough. Yeah wasn't it most of the young voters like i addressed in my first post today that they were the ones who majority voted yes? Older generation where the no voters? It is interested to see how fucked up the government gets now due to how angry ALL the MPs are not justs the tory back benchers lol. I don't know if saying "ALL" the MP's are angry, i think it's more likely that the proposals are going to be delayed as area's like the North of England, NI and Wales especially try and use the opportunity to get themselves a deal that's closer to Scotland's in terms of power. The 2010 General Election was dominated by the Financial Crisis, I don't think I'm being presumptuous by saying that the 2015 General Election will be Dominated by the devolution debate, already there are comments by nearly all the party leaders towards answering the "West Lothian Question". Although realistically unlikely if parties want to make any big inroads into opposition Strongholds then this next election will probably be the best chance they get for a long time. If for example neither Labour nor Conservatives can put a viable and acceptable plan into their manifesto, then the Liberal Democrats could gain a lot of ground Well this is true that the question is now going to be on that. UKIP will still gain most of the voters via immagration and EU regulations. The vote will also see a fewer amount of people turn out % wise so i don't know. General elections are stupid in this country because everyone is so fucking naive about voting that they don't even bother, yet still have the audacity to complain xD But yeah i will be looking at devolution when choosing my vote, but like we discussed in the office today, Conservatives pretty much dragged us out of recession unlike labour who pretty much dug us deeper. That is pretty good in my books, everything big DC has done has been good. However the immigration side of things still worries me and if it means dropping out of the EU to fix it then so be it. However i can't come to vote for UKIP due to if you looked passed there impressive immigration policy you then come up short on the economical side of things :s It's all crazy, i feel like started my own party where i take little bits of everything and just say, yep common sense prevails XD So much decisions to make in a short amount of time.
On September 20 2014 03:09 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On September 20 2014 02:40 hzflank wrote:
Pandemonia, if everything that DC has done has been good, then I take it that you agree with the privatization of Royal Mail?
On another of your points, we would of entered recession under any government as none of the major parties would of put the safeguards in place to prevent it. Labour may be culpable in that Brown should of known better, but don't think for a second that it would not of happened under a conservative government.
On the other hand you think that it may be worth dropping out of the EU to fix an immigration problem. While you are correct in that it would certainly help with immigration, how can you complain about the economic problems caused by the banks in 2008 and not even consider the economic problems that could be caused by withdrawing from the EU? I am sure that trade agreements can and would then be made with the EU, but in the short term the UK economy would suffer, and then the following government would fix it because the fact is that after declining the economy would eventually improve no matter which party was in power.
This is the problem with British politics and probably the reason why Scotland considered independence at this time: all of the major parties either only care about themselves (tories and labour) or are inept (lib dems). As someone who is never going to have chums in the conservative party to tell me of the next cheap deal I can get when buying public assets, or as someone who does not agree with power held by trade unions, who am I to vote for? It's no wonder that the scots voted SNP. No i know it wasn't labours fault we went INTO a recession it was Murica fault the world went into recession lol. However i meant that Gordon Browns party did NOTHING to help us out of it when they were in power. We went even further behind and had debts coming out of our ass' with them in charge. Not everything i agree with, just the most important thing (imo) the economy they have done very well. Royal Mail has been failing for years and years the privatization of it doesn't effect me, i don't use royal mail and all my deliveries get delivered by DHL etc now so it didn't effect me. Well the EU situation is different, Conservatives don't want out, they are just giving the public a referendum to keep their ass' in government which im happy with. I want some more facts just like Scotland got of the pros and cons. The trade agreements would be remade like you said and also we are pretty self sufficient now Scotland stayed with us for energy and power. I would do more research on the subject but as of now the main issue i see in this Country is over crowding and strains on public services, from Policing to NHS, all because of "free" service offered to people who come to England pay no tax and take money OUT of the economy.
Every politician looks after themselves first and then everyone else second, that is why there is no love for politics these days. HOWEVER, like i said what conservatives have done that effects me has been fine, minus the immigration failings. If they improved that and gave me some certainty on fixing the NHS aka giving them more funding they desperately needed then i would give them my vote now, but until then i will wait for more information. I agree with your points but the last point. SNP no different to any other government. They are literally UKIP but Scotland only. "vote for us, we remove u from England give parliament power" thats it though, whats your plan when your independent...."join the EU"..so we have to give up our currency? "...." that was there only plan you heard. UKIP the same, no other plans apart from abandon the EU lol. Anyway, we should re open this discussion when we get to spring 2015 and general election :D Should be fun though 
On July 02 2013 00:14 Pandemona wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2013 00:08 FuzzyJAM wrote:On July 02 2013 00:03 Zaros wrote:On July 02 2013 00:01 sixfour wrote:On July 01 2013 10:03 Souma wrote:
I wish we had something like PMQ in the U.S. lol. It's always so interesting to me. it really isn't. it's partisan childishness of the highest degree and i cannot recall the prime minister (any of them) ever answering a question directly, or going more than a minute without blaming the previous government for everything Its not really there for answering questions though, its about the performance. Yes, and that shows what's wrong with our politics. Not that we're unusual in electing lying politicians with no principles or honesty where "charisma" matters rather than character, but it's still sad to me. Isn't that world politics in a nutshell? I mean for aslong as i remember most elections are based on who has more charisma and likeability factor. Not what they really want to do. Take Tony Blair, guy can convince anyone of anything anyplace. Probably (towards the end for sure) one of the worst we have had in descion making. Cameron, another who comes across so nicely when he speaks, but again NOTHING has chance for 2 years since he has been in power (maybe more i forget) but for some reason i trust Cameron and i don't even know why xD Quicker UKIP get in and fuck everything up the better imo, we need a big shit storm to re sort out our parties and politics. UKIP getting in power and kicking us out of Europe and making us a bit more hated German style would be what we need (imo)
On May 03 2013 06:21 Pandemona wrote:
I Electrial vote as it saves me missing out on any votes, from local councilor voting to actual general elections. I have not had my vote in the post yet, im guessing it is incoming, our polls close next Thursday.
I would vote UKIP but my city of Worcester does not have a candidate from that party, so i will probably give the conservatives a nod as our conservative guy is pretty good for our city.
Another you might know is that most of these elections are run for each cities benefit. So as i just said, our conservative candidate is pretty damn hot and will more than likely get in again. And up and down the country there are favorites everywhere too, Labour guys up north etc, Lib Dems got the south east, blah blah. I hate the way our politics are, but i do hope UKIP get in, Nigel Farage is an excellent leader. You can check out some of his speakings (2 from my city in the last couple of weeks!) most notably the one on question time which you can find on BBC iPlayer
On January 30 2013 22:46 Pandemona wrote:Also do you not know what the majority of Romanian people do in England? Or do you think they are all just like regular people who want to come over to England and find a better job than they could in Romania? As you like the daily mail lets link you some of there news pieces; RomaniansRomaniansSun Version Is Over The Top, But FunnyMore Gang Related RomaniansMain reason English don't like Romanians in England is due to them being a victim of pick pocketing or seen the hoards of them around Pick Pockets!Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 22:39 kollin wrote:On January 30 2013 22:38 mdb wrote:
Well, this in something that is going on for a lot of time. It was started by the british tabloids, but now it reported in more seroious british media. The "threat" of romanian/bulgarian invasion in UK was also discussed by this guy Nigel Farage, who I know is british politician. Nigel Farage is one of the most stupid, blind men in all of Britain. I suggest you do some research on the UKIP party. Way over the top bro... "/ he is not blind or stupid. He hasn't turned UKIP into the 3rd biggest party in politics by being stupid has he?
On January 30 2013 22:52 Pandemona wrote:But as discussed further up, we can't do that in England, this thing called "human rights "dominates everything. We can't export terrorists no more due to human rights; See This ManBut you can see our point no? You see English people in your country on holiday as aragont annoying alcoholics right? Well we see Romanians as pick pocketing thieves etcetc. It's just because that is what we see. I could reveal more and more stories of women coming over to marry older single men and take them to the cleaners i have seen it done to a guy i work with (he is stupid, but rich). There are many a scam to be made in this world and that is the reason English have become so defensive on the situation. Lots of people can name you a story of an immigrants or a group of people from outside of England who have robbed from them or abused them. That UKIP man by the way, he is pretty clever ^_^ he predicts that before David Cameron's referendums comes in for a vote (5 years time) that the EU will be no more, as everyone in it, is going bankrupt anyway. Which isn't far off wrong no? Spain/Portugal/Greece/Ireland all in dyer financial situations, and the rest of Europe can't afford to bail them out? ANYWAY, this is turning into a volatile discussion  so you best be careful where this heads XD
On January 30 2013 23:19 Pandemona wrote:Well to be honest name an English paper which isn't a joke? They all make up 90% of their stories and talk aload of crap to make you buy them I rarely buy a paper, if i do it is for sport. Politically, i don't really have an elegance to any of them. I like what the conservatives are doing with our country at the moment, somethings i dislike, but i like the general direction we are going at the moment and think they are the right people in charge. As for Europe i would say i agree with some of UKIPs policies (SOME). What is the point of being in Europe if it just costs us more than we need, we have to do what they say whether we think it is right or wrong and have to allow more people into our country as stated above, even though WE ARE FULL! It's not even a case of whether they have jobs or can find jobs, it is due to the fact we have no space ;_;
Costs us £50million a day to stay in Europe and be told what to do by people in power that just want to look after themselves, not even for their countries. It is quite a joke really Europe, but that is another topic. And as my friend just reminded me, the EU as a whole probably wont exists in the near future, as more than just England will be pulling out!Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 23:03 Tobberoth wrote:On January 30 2013 22:46 Pandemona wrote:On January 30 2013 22:39 kollin wrote:On January 30 2013 22:38 mdb wrote:
Well, this in something that is going on for a lot of time. It was started by the british tabloids, but now it reported in more seroious british media. The "threat" of romanian/bulgarian invasion in UK was also discussed by this guy Nigel Farage, who I know is british politician. Nigel Farage is one of the most stupid, blind men in all of Britain. I suggest you do some research on the UKIP party. Way over the top bro... "/ he is not blind or stupid. He hasn't turned UKIP into the 3rd biggest party in politics by being stupid has he? The party being populist is what made it into the 3rd biggest party (populism + dumb voters = win). Well isn't every party the same logic as that then?
OK, you didn't vote for UKIP fair enough, I retract that, but only because as you said, despite your preference they didn't have a candidate in your borough.
Voted to remain, yeah right. Changed mind to leave becuase you think the EU is arrogant yeah right, you've always wanted to leave the EU.
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On March 21 2019 23:01 Pandemona wrote:
I have never voted for UKIP what the hell lol. I was Labour until Blair left and have been Tory voting since Cameron took control.
You are clearly confusing me as someone else, i would never post "vulgar" stuff on Romanians and Bulgarians on TL.net as part of their staff...that is a way for me to get fired pretty quickly. Just as others have done in the past. Also if you really knew me you would know i have no problems with Romanians at all! I have dated several of them in the past if that helps as well?
Reasons to remain were clear that is why i voted for it, but that is not happening now is it. The vote was lost and everyone in the government said they want to leave but with a deal. So that is done is it not? Why beat on about it, i don't get that side of the argument RIGHT NOW, beforehand sure. Beforehand the reasons for staying was to keep the status quo, our economy is fine, everyone is happy, we have control or have veto options on European law and can protect eachother better. There is of course pros to it, the ability to hire workers from Europe is also a big plus, nurses, farm workers everything, so helpful for specific pieces of the UK wheel as it were.
UKIP lived and died in a span around the debate of the referendum, when it was clear the conversvatives would fold from the pressure and give the vote, UKIP died overnight and now it no longer even exists. I would never support UKIP because they are based around racism and beliefs that are not helpful for any country. Please don't tar me with that brush and if you have, try and see it from a different light now, or better yet just ignore me. I am not making you read or agree with anything i type, if you think im an idiot which i won't judge you for, you are free to do so just dont try and weave your opinion about me on others without proof that isn't fair.
Never wrote anything vulgar about Romanians is it? I don't need to tar you with any racism brush, you tarred yourself with that just fine.
On January 30 2013 22:46 Pandemona wrote:Also do you not know what the majority of Romanian people do in England? Or do you think they are all just like regular people who want to come over to England and find a better job than they could in Romania? As you like the daily mail lets link you some of there news pieces; RomaniansRomaniansSun Version Is Over The Top, But FunnyMore Gang Related RomaniansMain reason English don't like Romanians in England is due to them being a victim of pick pocketing or seen the hoards of them around Pick Pockets!Show nested quote +On January 30 2013 22:39 kollin wrote:On January 30 2013 22:38 mdb wrote:
Well, this in something that is going on for a lot of time. It was started by the british tabloids, but now it reported in more seroious british media. The "threat" of romanian/bulgarian invasion in UK was also discussed by this guy Nigel Farage, who I know is british politician. Nigel Farage is one of the most stupid, blind men in all of Britain. I suggest you do some research on the UKIP party. Way over the top bro... "/ he is not blind or stupid. He hasn't turned UKIP into the 3rd biggest party in politics by being stupid has he?
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Well clearly i was different in 2013...so i rescind my comments but i assure you that is not the same person as i am now, what i wrote their was completely wrong and i can admit that quite easily. I honestly do not remember writing anything as i did towards the end, i can't even believe i wrote i would consider voting UKIP even though we did in fact have a candidate as well...Also those quotes are from 2013 for a general election not anything about the EU vote. It is quite clear since 2013 that my opinion changed and i was actually stating about Labour voting and now Conservative etc.
On June 24 2016 16:45 Pandemona wrote:Well UK fucked What a shocking time to be alive where us mere plebs get to vote on such huge decisions, shocking
+ Show Spoiler [More here] +On June 24 2016 16:59 Pandemona wrote:Oh, Spain just asked UK for shared Sovereignty over Gibraltar, who are the worst effective by this. Poor buggers gonna get shut out from Spain if we don't agree to this! Show nested quote +On June 24 2016 16:57 AngryMag wrote:On June 24 2016 16:56 DickMcFanny wrote:On June 24 2016 16:48 Pandemona wrote:
Merkel and Sarkozy must be seething right now and who can blame them. Merkel has nobody to blame but herself for this. self reflection and taking responsibility aren't exactly her strong suits. Hope she calls us idiots and our parliament insane for giving this decision to mere plebs.
I voted to remain, as i did state quite clearly after 2013...the vote wasn't until 2016!!!
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Mark this day as an important in your time on TL. Someone was confronted with their previously held views, owned them and said they had changed their mind since then. It is the unicorn of internet discourse.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Haha trust me i wouldn't be here if it was down to Nazgul. Guy was about to kill me for some of my early posting back in 2011-2013 i guess. Then all of a sudden he said i actually grew and changed, which ill admit, i was some stupid child back when i joined but now i have a lot of things opened up, no one is always going to believe you and no one has to, all you can do is debate, which i am happy to do. But i can also admit im wrong now quite easily if presented with enough evidence to say how inaccurate/correct i am.
Stubbornness probably creeps in the most around football debates as people will probably know from the footy thread, but sport is sport!
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Ok fair enough people can change their minds. And completely forget how they have posted in the past. Can't be bothered to search for more than ukip. So I'll leave it at that. I'll take you at your word.
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On March 21 2019 23:29 Pandemona wrote:
Haha trust me i wouldn't be here if it was down to Nazgul. Guy was about to kill me for some of my early posting back in 2011-2013 i guess. Then all of a sudden he said i actually grew and changed, which ill admit, i was some stupid child back when i joined but now i have a lot of things opened up, no one is always going to believe you and no one has to, all you can do is debate, which i am happy to do. But i can also admit im wrong now quite easily if presented with enough evidence to say how inaccurate/correct i am.
Stubbornness probably creeps in the most around football debates as people will probably know from the footy thread, but sport is sport!
Solidarity between those of us who the mods almost ejected from this site and became better for it.
When it comes to Brexit, one of things that surprises me is how it’s supporters in the UK frame it. They portray it as the UK sticking up for itself after years of being taken advantage of without any concern with how it is viewed by the EU nations. That narrative is, in reality, spitting in the eye of the EU nations and saying the agreements of the past are no longer good enough for the UK. Which would be fine if hard Brexit was the goal, but it isn’t. They also want to renegotiate the agreements while shit talking the EU members back home. The same dynamic is happening in the US when it comes to trade and it’s a fucking mess. I say this a lot in the US pol thread, but there is this delusion that we can bully other sovereign nations of equal political and economic power into economic agreements. And that is pure fantasy.
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On March 21 2019 23:27 Plansix wrote:
Mark this day as an important in your time on TL. Someone was confronted with their previously held views, owned them and said they had changed their mind since then. It is the unicorn of internet discourse.
Haha. I had something like this in real life. Nevrmind the issue - when i said to my friends "Well yes, but i changed my mind, i now agree with what You said" they were like "WTF!?", "How could You", "You cant do that!".
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I thought it was undemocratic to change your mind.
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Sigh, the shitshow goes on.
May is going to get an extension until May 22nd on the condition that Parliament approves the current agreement before March 29th.
Seems the drafts were premature and negotiations are still ongoing.
Is there any chance of it getting a vote and actually passing next week?
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Why would UK get an extention if it agrees to the agreement beforehand. That makes no sense. Why would EU agree to this? Once May's agreement is passed, then it is passed presumably, unless it is merely time to pass the agreement in totality, which I would presume to be part of the agreement in the first place.
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On March 22 2019 02:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Why would UK get an extention if it agrees to the agreement beforehand. That makes no sense. Why would EU agree to this? Once May's agreement is passed, then it is passed presumably, unless it is merely time to pass the agreement in totality, which I would presume to be part of the agreement in the first place. I don't believe there is actually enough time left to implement the withdraw agreement at this point without an extension.
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On March 22 2019 02:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Why would UK get an extention if it agrees to the agreement beforehand. That makes no sense. Why would EU agree to this? Once May's agreement is passed, then it is passed presumably, unless it is merely time to pass the agreement in totality, which I would presume to be part of the agreement in the first place.
Well, if they agree to the agreement they still need to do all the paperwork, which cannot be done before March 29. So an extension makes sense for everybody. Why drop them out with a no-deal if they actually decide they want the agreement just because they can't get the paperwork done in time.
Puts the ball firmly in the British parliament's court.
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On March 22 2019 02:31 Dangermousecatdog wrote:
Why would UK get an extention if it agrees to the agreement beforehand. That makes no sense. Why would EU agree to this? Once May's agreement is passed, then it is passed presumably, unless it is merely time to pass the agreement in totality, which I would presume to be part of the agreement in the first place.
The extension will be used for passing legislation, signing agreements and preparing for Brexit overall. If the UK parliament don't approve the deal(again), then there is no need for extension and the leaders will meet again next week and will decide how to do the hard brexit.
At least this is what everyone repeated before the meeting.
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I have a hunch that EU is hoping for the deal to be accepted now. Second best option for them is to incite a change in the UK either through the second vote becoming a policy or general election. They're not ready to drop UK out without a deal yet, but eventually that has to end, prolonging the inevitable if nothing changes in London does not help anyone.
In the meanwhile both businesses and unions were writing to May urging her to change the approach to Brexit
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EPT
