EPTAlso FPTP sucks. But when the Lib Dems wanted to change to proportional representation, but the ran a very muted campaign and the Conservatives and Labour were completely opposed. It probably didn't help that UKIP was also for proportional representation and Lib Dems didn't want to be associated with them.
UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 353
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
Also FPTP sucks. But when the Lib Dems wanted to change to proportional representation, but the ran a very muted campaign and the Conservatives and Labour were completely opposed. It probably didn't help that UKIP was also for proportional representation and Lib Dems didn't want to be associated with them. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
1. The youth are scaring me. They seem to actually believe in politicians, and that is stupid. Be sceptical, doubt everything anybody says, and don't form cults of personality, especially not around someone with JC's track record. 2. All Labour voters have achieved is destabilisation of the country during Brexit negotiations. 3. The hysteria about Scottish independence being inevitable after Brexit can now stop. 4. May is as much to blame for this mess as anybody else. You cannot have a campaign in which you offer not a single worthwhile policy. 5. No rest for Brexit supporters. We simply cannot trust politicians to implement the result of the referendum. Frankly depressing. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On June 09 2017 20:23 bardtown wrote: Some thoughts: 1. The youth are scaring me. They seem to actually believe in politicians, and that is stupid. Be sceptical, doubt everything anybody says, and don't form cults of personality, especially not around someone with JC's track record. 2. All Labour voters have achieved is destabilisation of the country during Brexit negotiations. 3. The hysteria about Scottish independence being inevitable after Brexit can now stop. 4. May is as much to blame for this mess as anybody else. You cannot have a campaign in which you offer not a single worthwhile policy. 5. No rest for Brexit supporters. We simply cannot trust politicians to implement the result of the referendum. Frankly depressing. How do you come to the conclusion of 1.? Regarding 2. you can attribute that to May/the conservative leadership, not the voters. Are you really expecting Brexit to be stopped? | ||
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On June 09 2017 20:27 Artisreal wrote: How do you come to the conclusion of 1.? Regarding 2. you can attribute that to May/the conservative leadership, not the voters. Are you really expecting Brexit to be stopped? Re 1. The youth voters were skeptical and doubted pretty much everything that mass media were saying about JC. I don't like the personality cult thing though. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On June 09 2017 20:27 Artisreal wrote: How do you come to the conclusion of 1.? Regarding 2. you can attribute that to May/the conservative leadership, not the voters. Are you really expecting Brexit to be stopped? Just look at the reaction of Corbyn supporters. His rallies, his appeal amongst the young, etc. He's offering things that are impossible to deliver and they are swallowing it. As for 2, I do mostly attribute it to May. I don't expect 'Brexit' to be stopped superficially, but in meaningful terms, yes. The EU and most British MPs are looking for a way to leave in name only; to continue payments, ECJ jurisdiction, EU control of our waters, borders, etc. This, they say, is part of the 'give and take' of leaving. But it's not. That's simply not leaving, and speaking for myself, I won't accept that. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On June 09 2017 20:42 farvacola wrote: It's quite something to see someone decry the partisan bent of a political opponent only to follow it with "they are giving away control of our waters and borders!" language. Maybe, just maybe, folks who voted for pie in the sky Corbyn are turned off by the persistent characterization of the EU as some kind of encroaching, Borg-like entity. You are one of the most consistently ignorant people in these political threads. That's not partisan language, that's fact. And Corbyn is one of the most Eurosceptic politicians on the left of British politics. He's not the threat. | ||
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farvacola
United States18869 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22586 Posts
On June 09 2017 20:39 bardtown wrote: Just look at the reaction of Corbyn supporters. His rallies, his appeal amongst the young, etc. He's offering things that are impossible to deliver and they are swallowing it. As for 2, I do mostly attribute it to May. I don't expect 'Brexit' to be stopped superficially, but in meaningful terms, yes. The EU and most British MPs are looking for a way to leave in name only; to continue payments, ECJ jurisdiction, EU control of our waters, borders, etc. This, they say, is part of the 'give and take' of leaving. But it's not. That's simply not leaving, and speaking for myself, I won't accept that. Offering things that are impossible and swallowing it up. You mean like how the brexit voters swallowed up the impossible promises made during the referendum campaign? | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On June 09 2017 20:49 farvacola wrote: lol, go ahead and keep pretending that your obviously political language consists of nothing but fact and you'll keep turning into a coward whenever elections don't go your way. Sad! What kind of cretin calls someone a coward on an internet forum? + Show Spoiler + What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo. On June 09 2017 20:49 Gorsameth wrote: Offering things that are impossible and swallowing it up. You mean like how the brexit voters swallowed up the impossible promises made during the referendum campaign? There's nothing impossible about leaving your club, buddy. User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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iPlaY.NettleS
Australia4452 Posts
On June 09 2017 13:47 Toadesstern wrote: nah, that's just they british spirit at work imo First they have Cameron with his "I'm going to hold a referendum because that'll make my hand stronger!" and now the same with May. Brits just need to chill a little with all that unnecessary yolo Also to follow up on the GH question, wikipedia has a nice summary of what "people" thought it would be like: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_United_Kingdom_general_election,_2017 so like Kwark said, yes a couple weeks ago it looked like a landslide (early may, mid april?) but them not getting enough votes to rule alone was written on the wall Well she did a great job of alienating the conservative core of older voters with her dementia tax and winter fuel allowance means testing.Alienated the youth with plans to regulate the internet. Let's see what happens with Brexit but a bizarre campaign from her if she was trying to increase her majority like she claims. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
On June 09 2017 20:39 bardtown wrote: Just look at the reaction of Corbyn supporters. His rallies, his appeal amongst the young, etc. He's offering things that are impossible to deliver and they are swallowing it. As for 2, I do mostly attribute it to May. I don't expect 'Brexit' to be stopped superficially, but in meaningful terms, yes. The EU and most British MPs are looking for a way to leave in name only; to continue payments, ECJ jurisdiction, EU control of our waters, borders, etc. This, they say, is part of the 'give and take' of leaving. But it's not. That's simply not leaving, and speaking for myself, I won't accept that. Obviously I am not versed in British politics but let me ask this possibly naive question: can't May/Tories, as they are remaining in charge of governing - albeit a bit gutted - ignore whatever they proclaimed about getting a stronger mandate and go through with what they had planned for 'Brexit' in the first place? | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On June 09 2017 21:00 Artisreal wrote: Obviously I am not versed in British politics but let me ask this possibly naive question: can't May/Tories, as they are remaining in charge of governing - albeit a bit gutted - ignore whatever they proclaimed about getting a stronger mandate and go through with what they had planned for 'Brexit' in the first place? She can, assuming she survives as leader and there is no Tory Remain rebellion. It just makes her less manoeuvrable, you could say. Can she really threaten to leave without a deal now? It would be very hard to get that through this parliament. | ||
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FuzzyJAM
Scotland9300 Posts
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Ghostcom
Denmark4783 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On June 09 2017 21:06 Ghostcom wrote: I've gotten curious here Bardtown: Do you want the UK to have access to the European single market following Brexit? Just a comprehensive trade deal, like they have with Ukraine and other European countries outside the union. Edit: rather more like Canada, actually. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22213 Posts
On June 09 2017 21:00 Artisreal wrote: Obviously I am not versed in British politics but let me ask this possibly naive question: can't May/Tories, as they are remaining in charge of governing - albeit a bit gutted - ignore whatever they proclaimed about getting a stronger mandate and go through with what they had planned for 'Brexit' in the first place? that's what she pretty much said she would do in her speech outside no. 10 after the meeting with the queen | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
You know. DUP. The party that has actual roots in ulster loyalism. Of course, that's fine now, because conservatives need those seats. Thank god there's no hypocrisy. that's what she pretty much said she would do in her speech outside no. 10 after the meeting with the queen But she can't. The coalition partner is against hard brexit, and if they aren't all in line to ratify the deal after it's made, what then? Fuck democracy and proper proceedings because a minority of the country wants the hard brexit (yes, the hard brexit is only embraced by the tories - not even all of them - , which in the grand scheme is only what, 34% or smth of the population?)? | ||
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