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On June 09 2017 18:03 Pandemona wrote:
318 seats with 1 more result due in for Conservatives now. Very hard conservative it seems though so should take us to 319 which is a shame as the 12 seats we lost would have put us in a nice gain of 5! Potential was still there to take a clean up if they didn't shoot themselves in the foot!
I wouldn't be too sure about that last one. The fact the Conservatives keep calling for the recount tells us they're down in Kensington, very close, but down. It may turn into Fife East again but it's tight.
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A moment of silence for the poor bastards that have to explain to Trump what a hung Parliament is.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Oh right hmm guess it closer than thought there then. Be good if Conservatives can hold that to take it to 319 and then we just look stupid but not to bad.
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On June 09 2017 21:41 Pandemona wrote:
Oh right hmm guess it closer than thought there then. Be good if Conservatives can hold that to take it to 319 and then we just look stupid but not to bad.
Nah sorry by all accounts you still look pretty bad
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Wow, this has got to be the first election that followed right after major terrorist attacks and the side with the anti-immigration sentiment did not win stronger. Or did Labour promise even more closed borders?
I have to say it gives me a warm feeling to see May fail,i have no idea where Corbyn stands but from german media viewed May looked like posturing just to appear strong internally and i hate that.
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On June 09 2017 21:04 FuzzyJAM wrote:
What's funny is that a lot of the policies the Tories got lambasted for are something a real left winger should be in favour of. Inheritance in particular is the most tangible utterly unfair inequality in the country - how can the left be attacking a policy that evens this out in an intelligent manner?
If you are referring to the social care/dementia tax thing then I believe the left wing criticism of it is that it is luck who needs social care and that social care should be paid for by everyone, not by the individual. If the Tories had suggested an inheritance tax generally to pay for social care then the left would have loved it. Forcing individuals to pay for their own care is more of a right wing thing.
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United States43964 Posts
Wasn't it just that everyone gets care but if you're on government provided care while also having a shitton of assets then they'll make you offset your costs.
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United States889 Posts
The lesson to be learned from this mess: don't call a cynical snap election based on a massive polling lead unless it's a YouGov poll.
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Canada13407 Posts
On June 09 2017 23:04 Arrian wrote:
The lesson to be learned from this mess: don't call a cynical snap election based on a massive polling lead unless it's a YouGov poll.
Don't call a cynical snap election if you don't know how to manage your brand in public.
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On June 09 2017 22:52 KwarK wrote:
Wasn't it just that everyone gets care but if you're on government provided care while also having a shitton of assets then they'll make you offset your costs.
I am not sure what you mean by "offset your costs". The Tory plan was that everybody should get social care but you would pay for that social care out of your estate when you died, but not if your assets were worth less than £100,000 and if your assets were worth more than £100,000 then you would never be charged so much that you would have less than £100,000 to pass on.
A (delayed) charge for your own social care costs is not a left wing ideal.
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Canada13407 Posts
On June 09 2017 23:10 Pandemona wrote:Yeah thats more right. Don't call the election if you going to halfheartedly campaign in it. Plus we pretty much learnt May has a charisma of a bean  such a downgrade from Cameron
If you're interested in how branding works in parliamentary politics read "Brand Command: Canadian Politics and Democracy in the Age of Message Control" by Alex Marland.
Its REALLY good. I'm enjoying it greatly. Mostly about PM Harper who held office for 10 years and touches on how Trudeau campaigned and the way his brand overtook slightly.
Goes into the topics of permanent campaigning in parliamentary politics, central government, permanent vs political government etc.
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United States43964 Posts
On June 09 2017 23:13 Melliflue wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2017 22:52 KwarK wrote:
Wasn't it just that everyone gets care but if you're on government provided care while also having a shitton of assets then they'll make you offset your costs. I am not sure what you mean by "offset your costs". The Tory plan was that everybody should get social care but you would pay for that social care out of your estate when you died, but not if your assets were worth less than £100,000 and if your assets were worth more than £100,000 then you would never be charged so much that you would have less than £100,000 to pass on. A (delayed) charge for your own social care costs is not a left wing ideal.
Charging the rich for social care after their deaths to ensure that it can be free for the poor and free for everyone at the point of delivery is absolutely left wing.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
On June 09 2017 23:14 ZeromuS wrote:Show nested quote +On June 09 2017 23:10 Pandemona wrote:Yeah thats more right. Don't call the election if you going to halfheartedly campaign in it. Plus we pretty much learnt May has a charisma of a bean such a downgrade from Cameron If you're interested in how branding works in parliamentary politics read "Brand Command: Canadian Politics and Democracy in the Age of Message Control" by Alex Marland. Its REALLY good. I'm enjoying it greatly. Mostly about PM Harper who held office for 10 years and touches on how Trudeau campaigned and the way his brand overtook slightly. Goes into the topics of permanent campaigning in parliamentary politics, central government, permanent vs political government etc.
Sounds very interesting that i will have to check it out, then mail one to 10 downing street xD
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I see it as "don't call a snap election if you're going to ruin it by campaigning like it's your god-given right to win, fuck earning it." May sort of pulled a Hillary Clinton here.
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Unelectable unelectable unelectable. I was wondering when you'll make an unrelated unrelated unrelated reference to Hillary Clinton here.
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Northern Ireland22212 Posts
may was arrogant and did not connect with the electorate at all. i still don't understand why she chose to dodge the head to head debates. i say this as a disappointed tory supporter.
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United States43964 Posts
Regarding the Brexit negotiations, they'll have to keep Labour in the loop now because they will need Labour votes. But I just don't foresee the Labour party whip demanding Labour vote against it as a bloc. It's important to rememeber that traditionally it was the neoliberal Conservatives who were pushing the EU while the trade unionist Labour party were vehemently opposed to it. Those blocs still exist but the neoliberal wing of the Conservatives has for the past two decades been silenced by the One Nation Conservatives while the trade unionist Labourites were silenced by Blairites and Brownites.
What it comes down to is that Brexit has crossparty appeal, and appeal particularly to Labour members like Corbyn who is at odds with a lot of his party on the issue. When the time comes the Labour whip is unlikely to demand a full and unified vote against Brexit, the internal political capital of such a whip would be colossal and I just don't think Corbyn has it. Even if he did, the loss with the voters would be worse, Labour would be portrayed as trampling the will of the people, denying the Brexit that the people voted for with zero possibility of introducing their own alternative.
It's not wrong to say that the Conservatives will need some Labour votes when the time comes. However it is wrong to say that they can't expect some. Cameron was far more vocal in his remain campaigning that Corbyn ever was, the Conservative whip will largely hold because they're in power and the Labour whip will be spared. They'll negotiate something that the anti-EU Labour MPs can stomach and on a take it or leave it vote it'll pass.
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Technically don't need Labour votes though right as with the DUP if they back there proposals it will be 327 votes and a majority? Or do you need more than just a majority vote to pass it through ? (plus if Sinn Finn don't take there seats you only need 320 majority to pass something?)
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On June 10 2017 00:14 ahswtini wrote:
may was arrogant and did not connect with the electorate at all. i still don't understand why she chose to dodge the head to head debates. i say this as a disappointed tory supporter. Originally, polling indicated that she was quite popular. My guess is that the campaign advisors wanted her to stay out of debates. Afterall tv debates are kind of a new thing. To be seen above petty squabbling and to deny legitimacy to Corbyn specifically. Unfortunately for her that seems to be a wild miscalculation. Perhaps if she had been elected in the first place as prime Minister would that had been the right call to make.
Looks like Conservative and DUP will be partners of some sort. Not sure what this will mean in practice though. Or whether Tersa May will stay or be forced out by her fellow Tories.
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EPT
