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Nelson Mandela has died. -Updated - Page 2

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Shiragaku
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Hong Kong4308 Posts
July 05 2013 03:08 GMT
#21
Bleh...some people in my hometown are also celebrating the demise of the man who supposedly brought "White Genocide" to South Africa...
MarklarMarklarr
Profile Blog Joined January 2013
Fiji226 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-05 03:20:47
July 05 2013 03:18 GMT
#22
On July 05 2013 11:55 LilClinkin wrote:
He shouldn't have been placed on life support. Elderly people should be allowed to die peacefully and comfortably at a doctor's discretion rather than be placed on a life-support machine indefinitely until the family guiltily decides to switch it off.


Well, he was ill, he's supposedly not in a vegetative state so who knows, he is supposed to be getting slightly better, but its just a matter of time i guess
Hello there
radscorpion9
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada2252 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-05 03:37:19
July 05 2013 03:36 GMT
#23
I don't like how people constantly pray for his survival as if their own lives depended on it...I wish they would just leave him in peace. He's obviously really old and is on his death bed, he's not going to last much longer so stop prolonging the inevitable! Nelson Mandela's life is not inextricably bound to yours, yes he did some important things but give him a rest.

People should be focusing more on honouring his legacy than praying to god that he'll live for five more years to extreme old age where he doesn't recognize anyone and seems to need regular hospital visits to stay alive.
docvoc
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States5491 Posts
July 05 2013 03:51 GMT
#24
On July 05 2013 12:08 Shiragaku wrote:
Bleh...some people in my hometown are also celebrating the demise of the man who supposedly brought "White Genocide" to South Africa...

At one point he was a terrorist of sorts. I'm sorry I'm using wikipedia for this . There are a lot of people who think one of three things as far as I've learned about the situation.
  • Either they think that the man was bad for the country, led it into a revolution that ended up overthrowing a majority of the white owned and operated businesses, forced an "africanization" that was unwanted by the dominant white class that threw the country into not only serious social turmoil, but also economic turmoil. Usually these people were from that era of dominant white social class rule. They dislike him because of his original violence and the fact that what he did put the country into the throes of chaos only to have it luckily brought back by a kind of cult-following, and that these throes put the country back economically; most of these tend to be old white people who grew up in apartheid.

  • Or they think that the man was bad for the people, because he created a nation that was divided by hatred rather than one divided by race. South Africa has enormous crime rates, a lot of urbanized black poverty, and other issues caused by forced integration. The same issues that plague the U.S., but without the amount of government/social currency to spend on it (think The Great Society and books like The Other America). They think that the man took the right thing and did it so quickly that it turned their society into more of a colloidal fluid than a cohesive one; lumps floating in and out of solution while the general liquid rejects these lumps because they don't mesh naturally. These people tend to be either ultra-conservative or attribute the flaws of society to Mandela.

  • Or they think that what Mandela did was domestic anti-caucasian centered terrorism that is made up for by the enormous cult-like following that has surrounded Mandela by both Blacks and Leftists. The idea that he lifted a people out of the jowls of oppression, but created a situation where de facto segregation was instituted instead of du jour; they argue that not only did he do little to change the real state of society, despite making it marginally more accepting, and in the process created a white-targeted domestic terrorism plan. These people argue that the only reason Mandela is looked so highly upon is his later more peaceful successes along with a strong association of him with salvation figures, enormous revisionism, regime apologism, social programs made to improve his image, and rigid backlash from academia concerning Mandela in a negative tone. This is a smaller group of society, but they tend to be people who find the previously said parts of Mandela's image disconcerting and tend to be either soceo-anarchic or generally anti-apologist.


This is what I've gotten. A lot of people view Mandela as they view MLK Jr. They could do no wrong. In reality, both leaders had serious down falls and society has cleaned up their image to the point they might as well be Kingdom Come, despite either doing some rather dispicable things, and/or failing miserably at important facets of their original promises to their people.
User was warned for too many mimes.
Darpa
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada4413 Posts
July 05 2013 03:55 GMT
#25
The man is 94 years old. Just let him go in peace and in private
"losers always whine about their best, Winners go home and fuck the prom queen"
KiLL_ORdeR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1518 Posts
July 05 2013 04:02 GMT
#26
On July 05 2013 05:42 Serejai wrote:
I am pretty shocked this thread has so few views and replies.

It's also kind of morbid that the man who gave South Africans their freedom is dying on the day we celebrate ours.


Not really, there isn't much to say about the situation. The man is in his mid 90's and everyone dies. It's honestly surprising that he's lived as long as he has given everything he's been through and the fact that medicine in South Africa isn't exactly top notch. That being said, he's an amazing inspiration for how much of a difference one man can make and the entire world will miss him dearly.
In order to move forward, we must rid ourselves of that which holds us back. Check out my stream and give me tips! twitch.tv/intotheskyy
Mansef
Profile Joined May 2012
59 Posts
July 05 2013 04:07 GMT
#27
He was a Communist. Yeah, ending white rule in SA is a great thing, but he wasn't an "amazing man." You can't just ignore a huge part of him and his administration.
Rhaegal
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
United States678 Posts
July 05 2013 04:20 GMT
#28
On July 05 2013 13:07 Mansef wrote:
He was a Communist. Yeah, ending white rule in SA is a great thing, but he wasn't an "amazing man." You can't just ignore a huge part of him and his administration.



Martin Luther King was an absolutely horrible person too, but we have a holiday for him. People latch onto the stuff that inspires them and gives them hope. Nothing wrong with that I suppose.
http://www.twitch.tv/agonysc
BlueBird.
Profile Joined August 2008
United States3890 Posts
July 05 2013 04:30 GMT
#29
On July 05 2013 13:07 Mansef wrote:
He was a Communist. Yeah, ending white rule in SA is a great thing, but he wasn't an "amazing man." You can't just ignore a huge part of him and his administration.


I didn't realize we were still in the red scare.... I mean he might have done some bad things, but you need to list these things with supportive arguments like others have, in some peoples eyes being communist is actually a key part of being an amazing man(redistributing wealth and all that)
Currently Playing: Android Netrunner, Gwent, Gloomhaven, Board Games
plogamer
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada3132 Posts
July 05 2013 04:42 GMT
#30
This might be a situation of an ideal being greater than the person that holds the ideal. I don't know Mandela personally, but atleast he stood for the end of Apartheid - which is universally agreed to be a system that favored the dominant white minority.

Hitler liked dogs, but he stood for the eradication of Jews, homosexuals, Gypsies, and disabled-people.
double1185
Profile Joined May 2010
Vietnam211 Posts
July 05 2013 06:14 GMT
#31
On July 05 2013 13:07 Mansef wrote:
He was a Communist. Yeah, ending white rule in SA is a great thing, but he wasn't an "amazing man." You can't just ignore a huge part of him and his administration.


I'm really curious about ur definition of an amazing man, since u seem clueless about how it hard to end a government system, especially that system belong to the ppl who own the economy and the army.
Starcraft FTW
LilClinkin
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
Australia667 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-05 16:36:33
July 05 2013 16:35 GMT
#32
I have interesting gossip regarding this situation.

A fellow doctor from South Africa whom I work with says he has friends in the hospital in which Mr Mandella is being kept. They report the ICU in which he is located has been sectioned off from admitting any other patients, and no one is allowed to come and go to visit him besides a select few staff members. Any other patient in Mr Mandella's clinical state would have been declared unfit for life support and palliated 3 weeks ago, however Mr Mandella remains in a vegetative state on a mechanical ventilator.

Speculation as to why he has continued to be ventilated revolves around a movement by South African authorities to clean up the city prior to the influx of international delegates who will pay their respects at his funeral. Concerted efforts have been made to move homeless people off the streets, remove excess litter and waste, to repaint buildings etc. so that the city looks respectable to international media.
Lucumo
Profile Joined January 2010
6850 Posts
July 05 2013 17:41 GMT
#33
On July 05 2013 09:46 Caihead wrote:
RIP

He is still alive.

People don't even read the thread names properly anymore...
Mansef
Profile Joined May 2012
59 Posts
July 05 2013 17:53 GMT
#34
On July 05 2013 13:30 BlueBird. wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 13:07 Mansef wrote:
He was a Communist. Yeah, ending white rule in SA is a great thing, but he wasn't an "amazing man." You can't just ignore a huge part of him and his administration.


I didn't realize we were still in the red scare.... I mean he might have done some bad things, but you need to list these things with supportive arguments like others have, in some peoples eyes being communist is actually a key part of being an amazing man(redistributing wealth and all that)

Just because we're no longer in the Red Scare doesn't mean communism is okay or we should be endlessly praising a communist. For all he did, he still supported a system that is responsible for more deaths than any other ideology in the 20th Century.

User was temp banned for this post.
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-05 18:00:30
July 05 2013 17:56 GMT
#35
On July 06 2013 02:53 Mansef wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 13:30 BlueBird. wrote:
On July 05 2013 13:07 Mansef wrote:
He was a Communist. Yeah, ending white rule in SA is a great thing, but he wasn't an "amazing man." You can't just ignore a huge part of him and his administration.


I didn't realize we were still in the red scare.... I mean he might have done some bad things, but you need to list these things with supportive arguments like others have, in some peoples eyes being communist is actually a key part of being an amazing man(redistributing wealth and all that)

Just because we're no longer in the Red Scare doesn't mean communism is okay or we should be endlessly praising a communist. For all he did, he still supported a system that is responsible for more deaths than any other ideology in the 20th Century.

That's ridiculous and short sighted. Communism is not responsible for deaths, the people who led those countries are. Mandela is not responsible for any deaths that happened under other regimes that were branded "communist".

It's very disappointing to me that people are this short sighted. I'm not a communist by any stretch of the imagination and I think communism would lead to poverty, but to assume that communists are somehow bad people is a complete misunderstanding of the term which was tainted by bad regimes.

The principles at the core of communism are, or at least can be very noble even though it may not necessarily work in practice.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Jormundr
Profile Joined July 2011
United States1678 Posts
July 05 2013 18:29 GMT
#36
On July 06 2013 02:53 Mansef wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 05 2013 13:30 BlueBird. wrote:
On July 05 2013 13:07 Mansef wrote:
He was a Communist. Yeah, ending white rule in SA is a great thing, but he wasn't an "amazing man." You can't just ignore a huge part of him and his administration.


I didn't realize we were still in the red scare.... I mean he might have done some bad things, but you need to list these things with supportive arguments like others have, in some peoples eyes being communist is actually a key part of being an amazing man(redistributing wealth and all that)

Just because we're no longer in the Red Scare doesn't mean communism is okay or we should be endlessly praising a communist. For all he did, he still supported a system that is responsible for more deaths than any other ideology in the 20th Century.

If only they had been motivated by something more pure, like greed.
Capitalism is beneficial for people who work harder than other people. Under capitalism the only way to make more money is to work harder then your competitors whether they be other companies or workers. ~ Vegetarian
WolfintheSheep
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada14127 Posts
July 05 2013 18:39 GMT
#37
On July 06 2013 02:56 Djzapz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2013 02:53 Mansef wrote:
On July 05 2013 13:30 BlueBird. wrote:
On July 05 2013 13:07 Mansef wrote:
He was a Communist. Yeah, ending white rule in SA is a great thing, but he wasn't an "amazing man." You can't just ignore a huge part of him and his administration.


I didn't realize we were still in the red scare.... I mean he might have done some bad things, but you need to list these things with supportive arguments like others have, in some peoples eyes being communist is actually a key part of being an amazing man(redistributing wealth and all that)

Just because we're no longer in the Red Scare doesn't mean communism is okay or we should be endlessly praising a communist. For all he did, he still supported a system that is responsible for more deaths than any other ideology in the 20th Century.

That's ridiculous and short sighted. Communism is not responsible for deaths, the people who led those countries are. Mandela is not responsible for any deaths that happened under other regimes that were branded "communist".

It's very disappointing to me that people are this short sighted. I'm not a communist by any stretch of the imagination and I think communism would lead to poverty, but to assume that communists are somehow bad people is a complete misunderstanding of the term which was tainted by bad regimes.

The principles at the core of communism are, or at least can be very noble even though it may not necessarily work in practice.

Best just to ignore and report this guy. 51 posts, and apparently every single one involves him being and idiot and an asshole. It's actually depressing to look over...
Average means I'm better than half of you.
lantz
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States762 Posts
July 05 2013 18:44 GMT
#38
Long live nonviolent resistance!!
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
July 05 2013 19:43 GMT
#39
On July 06 2013 03:39 WolfintheSheep wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 06 2013 02:56 Djzapz wrote:
On July 06 2013 02:53 Mansef wrote:
On July 05 2013 13:30 BlueBird. wrote:
On July 05 2013 13:07 Mansef wrote:
He was a Communist. Yeah, ending white rule in SA is a great thing, but he wasn't an "amazing man." You can't just ignore a huge part of him and his administration.


I didn't realize we were still in the red scare.... I mean he might have done some bad things, but you need to list these things with supportive arguments like others have, in some peoples eyes being communist is actually a key part of being an amazing man(redistributing wealth and all that)

Just because we're no longer in the Red Scare doesn't mean communism is okay or we should be endlessly praising a communist. For all he did, he still supported a system that is responsible for more deaths than any other ideology in the 20th Century.

That's ridiculous and short sighted. Communism is not responsible for deaths, the people who led those countries are. Mandela is not responsible for any deaths that happened under other regimes that were branded "communist".

It's very disappointing to me that people are this short sighted. I'm not a communist by any stretch of the imagination and I think communism would lead to poverty, but to assume that communists are somehow bad people is a complete misunderstanding of the term which was tainted by bad regimes.

The principles at the core of communism are, or at least can be very noble even though it may not necessarily work in practice.

Best just to ignore and report this guy. 51 posts, and apparently every single one involves him being and idiot and an asshole. It's actually depressing to look over...

Yeah probably.
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Aelfric
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Turkey1496 Posts
July 05 2013 19:46 GMT
#40
Valar Morghulus
Tomorrow never comes until its too late...
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