EPTIs Snowden guilty of espionage? - Page 5
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Olli
Austria24422 Posts
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Meerel
Germany713 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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BioNova
United States598 Posts
On June 26 2013 04:13 farvacola wrote: It doesn't really matter what Obama himself has argued, there is information pertinent to national security that government officials have an interest in keeping out of the public eye, and an according interest in discouraging its dissemination by government employees. Whether or not the entirety of the information released by Snowden falls under "whistleblower" protection is the crux of the debate, and I'm not really sure myself. On one hand, I think a huge number of people grossly overestimate the granularity of the information gathered by the NSA's programs; because of proportionality, I think the relative threat of the government turning into some Orwellian state very low. On the other, the government has done a poor job showing due diligence in oversight of the program, and they need to prove it well regulated or scrap it at once. I would say Obama's words and actions on these matters are pertinent. If this is the guy we can trust, then we have a problem. The elected officials do have an interest in this case, and it just so happens to clash with their responsibilities and oaths. Still waiting to hear more on the NSA documentation referring to 80 page FISA decision that declared what was occurring was illegal. I have not seen it but as I understand the NSA was trying to find workarounds to get in compliance(aka breaking the law) The real irony probably comes during Snowden's theoretical trail when he could not use it as evidence that he was indeed revealing criminality rather the engaging in nefarious behavior for spite. It's classified. Secret decisions, secret interpretations. Wouldn't have been much of a secret to Snowden. The media behavior on this matter has flatly been some Church committee material. | ||
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sekritzzz
1515 Posts
The only people who are guilty of crimes on humanity is the US govt and their cronies around the world. | ||
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Daray
6006 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:56 omgimonfire15 wrote: Honest question: Why does this matter so much? I can see how everyone is scared its going to turn into 1984 but do you honestly think that's gonna happen with today's society and the level of globalized connectedness? Yes. What do you think the people or public or whatever you want to call them will do you? I'm guessing nothing will be done about this and it will be forgotten (no one will be facing jail time except Snowden). The masses have power but it doesn't matter because people are indifferent until it directly affects their everyday lives. Also, why are people so worried about what the government knows? Do you have something to hide?  | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
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Thieving Magpie
United States6752 Posts
On June 26 2013 04:45 sekritzzz wrote: Its sad the state of affairs the world is in when people like edward snowden is considered a traitor. The US govt is delusional. Massive spying on the entire globe? Assassinations on the entire globe at free will? prosecution of journalists and whistle-blowers? The only people who are guilty of crimes on humanity is the US govt and their cronies around the world. Us disagreeing with someone does not make what they do illegal. Snowden did technically break the law. Sure, the law he broke is the one that we see good guys do in movies just as they reveal the corruption of _______ evil government/corporation; but in the end he did break it and hence has to be treated like any other breaker of the law. And what exactly did he reveal? That the Patriot Act passed 12 years ago is doing exactly what it said it would do... I mean, I feel for the guy, and I understand our need to root for the TV hero, how can we not? We're constantly told that those movies are nothing but fantasy and now we have our own real life spy hero. It would be strange for us not to want to root for him. But telling the american people that the government is doing what we asked them to do 12 years ago is not exactly game changing stuff. My heart wants to root for the guy, but what are we really rooting for? | ||
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Aerisky
United States12129 Posts
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TrollPolice
44 Posts
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On June 26 2013 04:51 Daray wrote: Yes. What do you think the people or public or whatever you want to call them will do you? I'm guessing nothing will be done about this and it will be forgotten (no one will be facing jail time except Snowden). The masses have power but it doesn't matter because people are indifferent until it directly affects their everyday lives. There's a reason we don't build our toilets in the living room. There's nothing wrong with taking a shit, but that doesn't mean I wanna do it with an audience. | ||
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ETisME
12729 Posts
Snowden left HK since the government did not have enough time to complete the paperwork to retain him in Hong Kong. | ||
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Roonweld
United States144 Posts
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Cirqueenflex
499 Posts
In my opinion the right thing would probably have been to go to the authorities (any boss of his or a higher-up politician who does have part in power over deciding this kind of stuff), and only go to the public if all those efforts bear no fruit as a last resort. It would have done way less collateral (political) damage. Would it be unfair if this would never have been made public? Maybe. But it is just as unfair to others the way this was made public, and way more people had to suffer for this. He deserves to be punished. On June 26 2013 05:05 Roonweld wrote: He isn't guilty of espionage. He hasn't told an enemy of the state secrets. He told the American people what was being done to them...if he's charged with espionage and sentenced, that means we are the enemy here to the US government. the same thing has been said here about half a dozend times at least (just in this thread). Kinda weird to see all the sheeps follow the meta game blindly. | ||
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CruiseR
Poland4014 Posts
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Fruscainte
4596 Posts
Not all crime is inherently evil, I think is fair to say. What Snowden did was illegal, but probably the most morally correct thing anyone has done for this country in the past 50 years. | ||
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dUTtrOACh
Canada2339 Posts
The question is whether or not Snowden's crime compromised national security and endangered lives. If the answer is "Some skeletons fell out of our closet but nobody was hurt." then I don't think they can consider his crime to be espionage and have it stick. | ||
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XCetron
5226 Posts
On June 26 2013 05:10 Fruscainte wrote: I mean of course he's "guilty" in the legalistic sense, but he's honestly what this country needed. Not all crime is inherently evil, I think is fair to say. What Snowden did was illegal, but probably the most morally correct thing anyone has done for this country in the past 50 years. Really? Most morally correct anyone has done, for this country (presumably United States of America),in the past 50 years (1963-2013)? | ||
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eNbee
Belgium487 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:16 TriO wrote: Yes, hes guilty of espionage and therefore a traitor. When we work for any type federal jobs from organization, institution, and state we are required to sign and obey this loyalty oath. This oath requires us to support and defend the constitution against all enemies of the United States of America. By giving out information he broke this oath and therefore declared enemy of the state by doing so. He knew by releasing this information he would be an enemy/traitor to the U.S. http://twothirds.us/the-oaths-of-office/ As you said he swore an oath to protect the constitution. I believe, and he believes, he was doing exactly that. Those NSA practices are a massive breach of the 4th amendment http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution Snowden knew what was going to happen when he released all of this, he gave up a very well paying job, basically his entire life when he released all of this. He's a hero and a patriot, I know these terms get overused a lot, but this time it's literally the case. All that said though, more on topic, he'll probably be found guilty of espionage under that archaic piece of legislation called the espionage act, the same piece of legislation they used in WW2 to create those internment camps for Japanese citizens. | ||
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eNbee
Belgium487 Posts
On June 26 2013 05:15 XCetron wrote: Really? Most morally correct anyone has done, for this country (presumably United States of America),in the past 50 years (1963-2013)? Don't be such a pedant, he's not far from the truth. He definitely took the moral high-ground on this one. He could've easily carried on raking in 200k a year until he felt like retiring. Instead he did the right thing, which not many people would've done. | ||
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darthfoley
United States8004 Posts
On June 26 2013 05:15 XCetron wrote: Really? Most morally correct anyone has done, for this country (presumably United States of America),in the past 50 years (1963-2013)? Lol, I would perhaps consider leaking Watergate as more important. . . .. . ..... | ||
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