EPTIs Snowden guilty of espionage? - Page 3
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zeru
8156 Posts
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:26 -Archangel- wrote: Actually it is not. TL profits most from US so I seen their mods protect US and some of its actions through different topics by banning or deleting content from some posters. Yeah I don't think the mods are modding according to where their profits come from x_x On June 26 2013 03:27 zeru wrote: He informed everyone in the world, including enemies of the US, not only the american public. So? It's not something that can be used to threaten your safety. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:25 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: I wasn't aware of informing the American Public of being spied on was espionage. pretty much he's a hero(and im talking about full on movie style hero) and stood up for the right thing. but ofc there are most likely 9234 laws against what he did (and even if not they will do evrything to get him) so the exact term that will be used as reasoning for lifetime prison doesnt matter anyways. On June 26 2013 03:26 -Archangel- wrote: Actually it is not. TL profits most from US so I seen their mods protect US and some of its actions through different topics by banning or deleting content from some posters. And by that I mean content that bashes US over the top. What is left is bashing that is standard and not in any way over the top. bullshit. TL mods just wont let senseless bashing or flamewars happen. which is good. but feel free to search out 10 "unfair" bans to protect the US. pm me them, would love to see it. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:27 zeru wrote: He informed everyone in the world, including enemies of the US, not only the american public. My econ professor wrote a short blog about PRISM. The summary is basically that if you have an information collection system that becomes weaker when people become aware of it, it's probably a really bad system. http://blueraiderfreetraders.blogspot.com/2013/06/be-skeptical-of-people-selling-hammers.html | ||
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Muffinman53
571 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:54 RouaF wrote: You should add a poll to the op. For me he is clearly NOT guilty, in fact he's more like a hero. Being a hero and being guilty of breaking the law are two entirely different things. | ||
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Klondikebar
United States2227 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:31 Muffinman53 wrote: Being a hero and being guilty of breaking the law are two entirely different things. Last I checked polls can have more than 2 options? | ||
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jcarlsoniv
United States27922 Posts
What he did was the right thing to do, and I respect him with every fiber of my being. | ||
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zeru
8156 Posts
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TheRabidDeer
United States3806 Posts
"My understanding is that espionage means giving secret or classified information to the enemy. Since Snowden shared information with the American people, his indictment for espionage could reveal (or confirm) that the US Government views you and me as the enemy." - Ron Paul | ||
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Djzapz
Canada10681 Posts
Calling him a hero is sensationalist at best, though. But I think that what he did is very good. | ||
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Drake
Germany6146 Posts
no if you do something RIGHT! who really cares the laws ? then the laws are just wrong and need to be fixed he wanna prevent you guys all from that totalitaire state you think america is gonna fight but is becoming to be one rly ... in such a case, who gives a shit on laws made by the guys who break every existing law in the world (or change them to fit them better) | ||
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BlackVelvet
51 Posts
Prior to Barack Obama's inauguration, there were a grand total of three prosecutions of leakers under the Espionage Act (including the prosecution of Dan Ellsberg by the Nixon DOJ). That's because the statute is so broad that even the US government has largely refrained from using it. But during the Obama presidency, there are now seven such prosecutions: more than double the number under all prior US presidents combined. http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/jun/22/snowden-espionage-charges I knew the U.S. government had basically all the apparatus it needs to get rid of anyone it wants it doesn't like, with PATRIOT act and later acts that reinforced state power, but that really puts Obama's way of running things into perspective. Kudos to Greenwald and the Guardian for everything they've done since this story broke. I used to follow him when he wrote for Salon, but at some point stopped frequenting his page (because I didn't need/or was interested in a daily reminder of how horrid our state of affairs is). The Espionage act in general might be something worth one's investigation to put this trend in better perspective. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9807 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:28 BeMannerDuPenner wrote: pretty much he's a hero(and im talking about full on movie style hero) and stood up for the right thing. The problem is that you are using morality to justify his actions. The reason that this is a problem is that the way world politics works, morality is completely irrelevant. Sure, politicians might use morality to try and get in your head and win votes, but really - especially in foreign affairs- morality basically doesn't exist. If it did, this wouldn't have happened in the first place. The biggest problem is that the US government seems content to twist and bend the law to their ends. Its one thing acting in an immoral way, but the law needs to be there to protect people, and sidestepping it the way that the governments involved (US and UK) have is a disgrace. The other problem here is accountability. Who is to blame for this illegal action by the governments? We will never know. There is zero accountability, so there is no need to act responsibly or in the way that the people want you to act. You can do what you want. I'm sorry to tell you but this isn't going to stop any time in the near future. The whole system of law surrounding government activity would have to be torn down and rebuilt. | ||
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imperator-xy
Germany1377 Posts
On June 26 2013 02:59 Jockmcplop wrote: Snowden is not a hero, and he is not a criminal. He did his duty as a citizen of the world. Punishing him for this is a crime. Thank you, I think this quote fits the situation perfectly. If you reveal such a big scandal, the first thing which should be done is penalizing the government that behaves like this. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
seriously, though, her voicemails got hacked by the gov't/news agencies... in 2004... 9 years later... what nation wouldnt do this if they could? they would all do this/do this already | ||
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BioNova
United States598 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:16 TriO wrote: Yes, hes guilty of espionage and therefore a traitor. When we work for any type federal jobs from organization, institution, and state we are required to sign and obey this loyalty oath. This oath requires us to support and defend the constitution against all enemies of the United States of America. By giving out information he broke this oath and therefore declared enemy of the state by doing so. He knew by releasing this information he would be an enemy/traitor to the U.S. http://twothirds.us/the-oaths-of-office/ What does that oath swear to defend? The constitution Against what? Enemies, foreign and domestic. Now who's the enemy of the constitution? One side with one oath-breaker, or another side with 100000 oath-breakers like yourself. His was broken in defense. If only you could claim the same. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:33 Djzapz wrote: He's clearly guilty by the law, but he also did the right thing. The law is not infallible. Calling him a hero is sensationalist at best, though. But I think that what he did is very good. well how many movies/books star a guy that works for government/company X ,then finds out that they do bad thing Y and then he quits ,works against X/Y and gets hunted by his former "allies"? and even without bringing fiction into this, he willing/knowingly gave up his normal life and evrything to do the right thing. for the benefit of evryone else but him. sounds quite heroic to me. ofc its a big word to shout around and in hype often gets overused. but this guy really qualifies. | ||
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Arghmyliver
United States1077 Posts
On June 26 2013 03:16 TriO wrote: Yes, hes guilty of espionage and therefore a traitor. When we work for any type federal jobs from organization, institution, and state we are required to sign and obey this loyalty oath. This oath requires us to support and defend the constitution against all enemies of the United States of America. By giving out information he broke this oath and therefore declared enemy of the state by doing so. He knew by releasing this information he would be an enemy/traitor to the U.S. http://twothirds.us/the-oaths-of-office/ "Support and defend the constitution" is pretty much exactly what he was doing. He informed the public that they were being spied on - wouldn't that be the opposite of being treacherous to the US? He seems more like a defender of the US public - whereas the government would appear to be the real traitors. | ||
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XaMaXaM
Germany113 Posts
BUT I think it would´ve been better if the US just set up a deal with him after leaking all the stuff so that he shuts up. Now the USA is two times negative mentioned in the press. | ||
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thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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