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The US government has officially charged NSA whistleblower with espionage charges. Did he or did he not under national and international laws in fact committed espionage?
Under US laws, espionage means a government or individual obtaining information considered secret or confidential without the permission of the holder of the information. Espionage is moreover an institutional effort by a government or commercial concern on potential or actual enemies primarily for military purposes.
In the case of Snowden, the question lies in the issue of "obtain". He is a commissioned employee of the NSA, and as such the information he obtain he did so legally and with the full knowledge and consent of NSA, and by extension the US government. But when we start to reclassify obtain in the sense of obtaining for the purpose other than what is officially intended, which in this case Snowden did by coping NSA information and sharing them to the media, then the espionage case might make some sense. On the second point of being done on potential or actual enemies, for military purposes, this still has yet to be determined as the issue of whether Snowden is a spy for Hong Kong or China or whatever is still being investigated.
What does TL think about this issue? Is Snowden a spy, and did he commit espionage by releasing to the public information which he thought are invasive to their privacy?
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oops, title should be *Is Snowden guilty of espionage?
modes please.
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Well I don't know. In a sense, Snowden released confidential information. On the other hand, it released confidential information about the US stealing confidential information from its citizens... So it cancels out, really.
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can you show us these international laws about espionage? I never heard of those.
By US law he is for sure guilty, but that does not make his less of a hero in eyes of people all over the world.
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I assume it's not technically espionage if obtaining the information was legal in the first place.
But I'm no US lawyer.
Someone summon dAPhREAk.
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I really don't think that illegal government activity is protected under any sort of National Security. Therefore exposing it can't be classified as any sort of crime. I'm quite certain the laws (conveniently) define things differently to protect those in power but that's absolutely not the way it should be.
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I don't think there is a doubt that he is a criminal in the US. In Germany for example every other employee of NSA is a criminal. In Germany we have a saying: being in the right and getting justice are two different things.
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Being accused of espionnage for leaking an espionnage program, how ironic.
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On June 26 2013 02:46 Spekulatius wrote:
I assume it's not technically espionage if obtaining the information was legal in the first place.
But I'm no US lawyer.
Someone summon dAPhREAk.
It's probably the releasing information part that's illegal, not how you get it. Some people in the CIA have security clearances so they get a lot of confidential information, they can't release it even if they get it "legally".
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It all depends on th edefinitions and guidelines of "espionage" in the US I guess.
Although since it is the US he will be tried or it, since, well, republicans.....
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Under US law he is most certainly guilty of espionage. However I see him as a hero. He is jsut one of many whistleblowers nowadays bringing to light the criminality of the US government
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On June 26 2013 02:49 Djzapz wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 02:46 Spekulatius wrote:
I assume it's not technically espionage if obtaining the information was legal in the first place.
But I'm no US lawyer.
Someone summon dAPhREAk. It's probably the releasing information part that's illegal, not how you get it. Some people in the CIA have security clearances so they get a lot of confidential information, they can't release it even if they get it "legally".
Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm sure there's a law that makes what he did a punishable offense. I was just pondering if "espionage" is the correct legal term.
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At the risk of sounding clichéd - the American colonies (and indeed any area of colonialism which subsequently rebelled in order to establish their independence) were breaking all sorts of laws with their uprising (not the least of which being treason). I think the law should many times always take backseat to Humanitarianism.
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You should add a poll to the op. For me he is clearly NOT guilty, in fact he's more like a hero.
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Isn't espionage when you obtain information that you werent supposed to have access to then release it? Also, what about that whistleblower protection act from 1989?
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I don't think he didn't not guiltify himself of espionage but if he didn't or did it was for the greater good of humanity
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On June 26 2013 02:53 Spekulatius wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2013 02:49 Djzapz wrote:On June 26 2013 02:46 Spekulatius wrote:
I assume it's not technically espionage if obtaining the information was legal in the first place.
But I'm no US lawyer.
Someone summon dAPhREAk. It's probably the releasing information part that's illegal, not how you get it. Some people in the CIA have security clearances so they get a lot of confidential information, they can't release it even if they get it "legally". Oh, don't get me wrong. I'm sure there's a law that makes what he did a punishable offense. I was just pondering if "espionage" is the correct legal term.
They don't always use the correct legal terms... the boston bomber guy got charged with using a WMD x_x.
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My understanding is that he used his position as System Administrator to access data he was not supposed to. He then smuggled it out.
As long as the purpose was to go to the press, then IMHO he is more of a whistleblower than a spy.
If he was payed by the Russians or Chinese (or even if he were payed by the press) then that would make him more of a spy.
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On June 26 2013 02:55 floor exercise wrote:
I don't think he didn't not guiltify himself of espionage but if he didn't or did it was for the greater good of humanity
Triple negatives ftw.
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EPT
