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On June 25 2013 02:14 A Wet Shamwow wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:11 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:07 Djzapz wrote:On June 25 2013 02:05 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:01 Steel wrote:
"As usual, the debate ended with everyone losing. The clash of intractable views produced no harmony, just exhaustion and an ache in the back of the skull"
I can't believe how much people try to argue for or against causes they affect them so little. You're not ignorant and uneducated saying that homosexuality is wrong because nature didn't intend for it, but why do you care so much? Are you nature's white knight, vowed to be opinionated when you spot unnatural behavior? If people like you would go about their business and let others go about their business, then there wouldn't even need to be this gay pride bullshit. Your viewpoint isn't invalid, it's just pointless and idiotic to argue for it. Similar to what religious zealots use in arguments. Because this is a forums. People debate on a forums. Why do we debate? You tell me. But do not strike down my views if you disagree with them. Simply state that you think otherwise respectably, and I will take up no qualms with you. But when you post a paragraph saying that everything I write is futile, that it is pointless because it goes against that majority, that I should not debate on a forums or put out a view that goes against the mold, I get more than a little bit irritated. Your views are a threat to the quality of life of many people. I think it's fair to strike them down. Oh my god. Holy shit man. Does no one read what I've said so many fucking times? That these are my opinions, and that no one has to agree with them? There's a difference between disagreeing with people and insulting them. Many people here should cultivate some respect. "I disagree with your existence." Isn't that at least a little bit insulting?
Well, come to think of it, a lot of people hold that opinion. And saying that I disagree with the practice of homosexuality in NO WAY equates to saying that I disagree with someone's existence. It means that I disagree with the practice. Not that I'm going to do anything about it. Quit being so dramatic.
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Alot of discussion. I just wanna say: Respect to Liquid.
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On June 25 2013 02:14 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:10 Djzapz wrote:On June 25 2013 02:08 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:07 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 02:06 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:04 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 02:02 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:56 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:
[quote]
You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid.
I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; ---> most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation <---. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. You might want to read the bit just after that. ALTERNATIVELY, you might want to read the majority before it. I did. It says "errr its complicated and we don't know exactly why some people are gay and some are straight". Not what you seem to be thinking its saying that people have a choice about their sexual orientation. No, I'm talking about the part that says "no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles..." Which in no way supports your view that people have a choice about sexual orientation. However the last line does support the view that people don't have much of a choice in sexual orientation. Which in no way denies my view that people have a choice about sexual orientation. However, the last line states what psychologists think, not what they know to be an absolute truth. But that begs the question, when did you choose to be straight, and why can't you choose to be gay right now? I believe that if you're smart, you should be able to realize that since you can't make that choice, then it's not a choice. I'd really like to see you answer that question, was it a choice for you? People's patterns and tendencies are established early on in life (nurture, if you will). Though I cannot change my sexual preference entirely to become homosexual due to biological wiring and habit, there is nothing that stops me from attempting to have a homosexual relationship with a man (CHOICE outweighs ALL OTHER FACTORS). And given long enough or numerous enough relationships, yes, I think I'd be inclined towards them.
Assuming you're straight, go ahead and imagine kissing a man.
This is exactly what a gay man feels like when he's imagining kissing a woman.
Just because we can choose to do certain things doesn't mean it's our natural inclination to do so.
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On June 25 2013 02:13 Taosu wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:03 Shodaa wrote:On June 25 2013 02:01 A Wet Shamwow wrote:On June 25 2013 01:57 Taosu wrote:On June 25 2013 01:53 A Wet Shamwow wrote:
It isn't a choice (as others in this thread are arguing), but let's say that it is a choice, just as choosing not to live only to reproduce is a choice, then why should we prosecute and treat homosexuals as second class citizens while we ourselves are making a choice to "go against" our purpose? Because we don't want our children to encounter this on everyday basis? "This"? Two human beings being together? It isn't like there are going to be full blown orgies in the streets. I am pretty sure PDA of any nature is not kosher in most peoples minds, gay or straight. I guess he think that teaching children to hate people for being who they are is more harmful than them seeing couples of the same genders :/ That's quite sad. It all boils down to a simple question: "do you want your kid to become a gay or not". Hurr durr I will love my kids whatever they are derp.
Of course I will love them. I wouldn't mind having children who happens to be homosexual. Why should I ?
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On June 25 2013 02:15 Polis wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 01:38 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:35 Iyerbeth wrote:
I find myself with a question about the people claiming that if sex isn't for reproduction then it is wrong because it is 'against the designof evolution' or whatever.
Do you apply the same rigorous standards of darwinian natural selection to all aspects of your life, or just when it suits you? Even Dawkins stated he wouldn't want to live in such a society and he's about the biggest proponent of evolution you'll find. ... I said that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction. All mammals on earth use sex as a means of reproduction. Humans are unique on this earth, but why should that change the purpose of sex? That purpose dictates the vast majority of the world's sexual preference. It might be a harsh viewpoint, but it doesn't make it any less valid.I have been saying over and over again that any biological programming or learned behavior is overshadowed by choice... Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. Alright, this is why I try to avoid this shit. Let's not let things get to heated here. You take to your views, and I'll take to mine. It isn't an opinion, such things are studied, we know allot about sexual behaviors of other animals, and it is ignorant to claim that there is no reason for them other then reproduction, for example it is important for social functioning of bonobos. Having opinion that goes against what we know from studying is ignorant, and uneducated.
Yeah he likes to ignore the point about homosexual behavior in animals. He keeps dodging the subject because it doesn't fit into his argument.
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Why do we even care if homosexuality is a choice ?
If it is, then the people choosing to be gay should have the same rigth that the people choosing to be straigth.
If it is not, they should still have the same rigth.
I personnally ( based on discussion with many gay friends) think it is not a choice. But overall, it doesnt change a thing on how they deserve rigth equality.
Kudos to TL for speaking up.
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On June 25 2013 02:11 imallinson wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:08 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:07 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 02:06 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:04 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 02:02 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:56 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:
[quote]
You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike?
You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here...
And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; ---> most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation <---. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. You might want to read the bit just after that. ALTERNATIVELY, you might want to read the majority before it. I did. It says "errr its complicated and we don't know exactly why some people are gay and some are straight". Not what you seem to be thinking its saying that people have a choice about their sexual orientation. No, I'm talking about the part that says "no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles..." Which in no way supports your view that people have a choice about sexual orientation. However the last line does support the view that people don't have much of a choice in sexual orientation. Which in no way denies my view that people have a choice about sexual orientation. However, the last line states what psychologists think, not what they know to be an absolute truth. It does exactly that, you can't both have a choice and not have a choice. The last line states the best evidence we have so far. Its not denying the chance that it could be a choice but it suggests it that that isn't the case.
in my opinion sexuality isn't fixed, sexuality is about what gender the person is who you like enough to feel sexualy engaged with them. which means it doesn't have to be fixed to a gender.
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On June 25 2013 02:16 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:14 A Wet Shamwow wrote:On June 25 2013 02:11 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:07 Djzapz wrote:On June 25 2013 02:05 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:01 Steel wrote:
"As usual, the debate ended with everyone losing. The clash of intractable views produced no harmony, just exhaustion and an ache in the back of the skull"
I can't believe how much people try to argue for or against causes they affect them so little. You're not ignorant and uneducated saying that homosexuality is wrong because nature didn't intend for it, but why do you care so much? Are you nature's white knight, vowed to be opinionated when you spot unnatural behavior? If people like you would go about their business and let others go about their business, then there wouldn't even need to be this gay pride bullshit. Your viewpoint isn't invalid, it's just pointless and idiotic to argue for it. Similar to what religious zealots use in arguments. Because this is a forums. People debate on a forums. Why do we debate? You tell me. But do not strike down my views if you disagree with them. Simply state that you think otherwise respectably, and I will take up no qualms with you. But when you post a paragraph saying that everything I write is futile, that it is pointless because it goes against that majority, that I should not debate on a forums or put out a view that goes against the mold, I get more than a little bit irritated. Your views are a threat to the quality of life of many people. I think it's fair to strike them down. Oh my god. Holy shit man. Does no one read what I've said so many fucking times? That these are my opinions, and that no one has to agree with them? There's a difference between disagreeing with people and insulting them. Many people here should cultivate some respect. "I disagree with your existence." Isn't that at least a little bit insulting? Well, come to think of it, a lot of people hold that opinion. And saying that I disagree with the practice of homosexuality in NO WAY equates to saying that I disagree with someone's existence. It means that I disagree with the practice. Not that I'm going to do anything about it. Quit being so dramatic.
Well, what if they don't feel like changing or even attempting to change to make you happy. Further more, since you can't prove that being homosexual is a choice, why should they even make an effort to change.
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On June 25 2013 02:08 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:07 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 02:06 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:04 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 02:02 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:56 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; ---> most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation <---. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. You might want to read the bit just after that. ALTERNATIVELY, you might want to read the majority before it. I did. It says "errr its complicated and we don't know exactly why some people are gay and some are straight". Not what you seem to be thinking its saying that people have a choice about their sexual orientation. No, I'm talking about the part that says "no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles..." Which in no way supports your view that people have a choice about sexual orientation. However the last line does support the view that people don't have much of a choice in sexual orientation. Which in no way denies my view that people have a choice about sexual orientation. However, the last line states what psychologists think, not what they know to be an absolute truth.
Then become gay right now, have sex with a man and give us evidence. Remember to have a specific camera for your face, I want to see how much you enjoy it!
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On June 25 2013 02:11 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:07 Djzapz wrote:On June 25 2013 02:05 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:01 Steel wrote:
"As usual, the debate ended with everyone losing. The clash of intractable views produced no harmony, just exhaustion and an ache in the back of the skull"
I can't believe how much people try to argue for or against causes they affect them so little. You're not ignorant and uneducated saying that homosexuality is wrong because nature didn't intend for it, but why do you care so much? Are you nature's white knight, vowed to be opinionated when you spot unnatural behavior? If people like you would go about their business and let others go about their business, then there wouldn't even need to be this gay pride bullshit. Your viewpoint isn't invalid, it's just pointless and idiotic to argue for it. Similar to what religious zealots use in arguments. Because this is a forums. People debate on a forums. Why do we debate? You tell me. But do not strike down my views if you disagree with them. Simply state that you think otherwise respectably, and I will take up no qualms with you. But when you post a paragraph saying that everything I write is futile, that it is pointless because it goes against that majority, that I should not debate on a forums or put out a view that goes against the mold, I get more than a little bit irritated. Your views are a threat to the quality of life of many people. I think it's fair to strike them down. Oh my god. Holy shit man. Does no one read what I've said so many fucking times? That these are my opinions, and that no one has to agree with them? There's a difference between disagreeing with people and insulting them. Many people here should cultivate some respect.
Your problem is that you don't seem to realise how offensive your opinions are to people who are gay and have tried to chose not to be gay, to try and fit in with society, and couldn't and all the problems that can come with that. You are wrong, your opinion (which isn't an opinion since there's a factual response being developed and people with experience of said situation) is wrong and you are arguing beyond the point of reason with this.
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On June 25 2013 02:14 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:10 Djzapz wrote:On June 25 2013 02:08 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:07 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 02:06 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:04 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 02:02 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:56 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:
[quote]
You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid.
I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; ---> most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation <---. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. You might want to read the bit just after that. ALTERNATIVELY, you might want to read the majority before it. I did. It says "errr its complicated and we don't know exactly why some people are gay and some are straight". Not what you seem to be thinking its saying that people have a choice about their sexual orientation. No, I'm talking about the part that says "no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles..." Which in no way supports your view that people have a choice about sexual orientation. However the last line does support the view that people don't have much of a choice in sexual orientation. Which in no way denies my view that people have a choice about sexual orientation. However, the last line states what psychologists think, not what they know to be an absolute truth. But that begs the question, when did you choose to be straight, and why can't you choose to be gay right now? I believe that if you're smart, you should be able to realize that since you can't make that choice, then it's not a choice. I'd really like to see you answer that question, was it a choice for you? People's patterns and tendencies are established early on in life (nurture, if you will). Though I cannot change my sexual preference entirely to become homosexual due to biological wiring and habit, there is nothing that stops me from attempting to have a homosexual relationship with a man (CHOICE outweighs ALL OTHER FACTORS). And given long enough or numerous enough relationships, yes, I think I'd be inclined towards them.
Nonsense if you could just change your preferences by dating the sex that you aren't attracted too, then ex-gays wouldn't come out as ex-ex-gays saying that it was bs, and they were always gay.
Do you know any history at all? Do you understand that Christianity for over 1000 years made homosexuality illegal? How do you think homosexuality had survived if people could just change they preferences like that? There would be no homosexuality now.
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East Gorteau22261 Posts
On June 25 2013 02:10 Cirqueenflex wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 01:56 Zealously wrote:
I think it's interesting that people think that you can choose to become bi/homosexual - I know some people who considered themselves freaks of nature and were terrified of the thought of anyone ever finding out. They were ashamed of themselves because they were different and some went as far as attempting suicide. Now, if being homosexual is a choice, why on earth would they feel like that?
Edit: and also, heterosexuality and any kind of sexuality - it's not all about sex. There's more to sexuality than just sex. Some people seem to not understand this. uhm, those are different pairs of shoes. One is to make the choice of being attracted to the same sex, the other is social pressure. And they were afraid because of their choice they would face social preassure or felt it already. Because society imposes pressure does not take away from the basic choice. And I would argue that for the vast majority of gay people it is a choice, maybe not as concious as other things, but a choice nevertheless. A choice made out of bad experiences with the opposite gender, good experiences with the same gender, of finding a good match in the same sex or just by not wanting to play by the rules of men having to be strong and women to be soft.
The way I interpret "Being gay is a choice" is that you could also choose to stop being gay whenever you wish. I mean, if you decide to be gay, then you should logically also be able to decide to be straight. That's how I understand the viewpoint, anyway. Of course, one may go from being straight to being gay or vice versa - I imagine it has happened, but I find the notion that you could just wake up one day and say "I'm going to be attracted to people of my gender from now on" incredibly silly.
+ Show Spoiler +Am I exaggerating? Perhaps slightly. But that's the essence of it, and I think it's ridiculous.
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On June 25 2013 02:16 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:14 A Wet Shamwow wrote:On June 25 2013 02:11 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:07 Djzapz wrote:On June 25 2013 02:05 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:01 Steel wrote:
"As usual, the debate ended with everyone losing. The clash of intractable views produced no harmony, just exhaustion and an ache in the back of the skull"
I can't believe how much people try to argue for or against causes they affect them so little. You're not ignorant and uneducated saying that homosexuality is wrong because nature didn't intend for it, but why do you care so much? Are you nature's white knight, vowed to be opinionated when you spot unnatural behavior? If people like you would go about their business and let others go about their business, then there wouldn't even need to be this gay pride bullshit. Your viewpoint isn't invalid, it's just pointless and idiotic to argue for it. Similar to what religious zealots use in arguments. Because this is a forums. People debate on a forums. Why do we debate? You tell me. But do not strike down my views if you disagree with them. Simply state that you think otherwise respectably, and I will take up no qualms with you. But when you post a paragraph saying that everything I write is futile, that it is pointless because it goes against that majority, that I should not debate on a forums or put out a view that goes against the mold, I get more than a little bit irritated. Your views are a threat to the quality of life of many people. I think it's fair to strike them down. Oh my god. Holy shit man. Does no one read what I've said so many fucking times? That these are my opinions, and that no one has to agree with them? There's a difference between disagreeing with people and insulting them. Many people here should cultivate some respect. "I disagree with your existence." Isn't that at least a little bit insulting? Well, come to think of it, a lot of people hold that opinion. And saying that I disagree with the practice of homosexuality in NO WAY equates to saying that I disagree with someone's existence. It means that I disagree with the practice. Not that I'm going to do anything about it. Quit being so dramatic.
What if someone said they disagreed with you posting on this forum, I mean they aren't going to do anything about it, but they really think that you should be posting like you do. Wouldn't that be offensive and insulting?
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On June 25 2013 02:14 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:10 Djzapz wrote:On June 25 2013 02:08 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:07 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 02:06 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:04 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 02:02 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:56 imallinson wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:
[quote]
You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid.
I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; ---> most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation <---. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. You might want to read the bit just after that. ALTERNATIVELY, you might want to read the majority before it. I did. It says "errr its complicated and we don't know exactly why some people are gay and some are straight". Not what you seem to be thinking its saying that people have a choice about their sexual orientation. No, I'm talking about the part that says "no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles..." Which in no way supports your view that people have a choice about sexual orientation. However the last line does support the view that people don't have much of a choice in sexual orientation. Which in no way denies my view that people have a choice about sexual orientation. However, the last line states what psychologists think, not what they know to be an absolute truth. But that begs the question, when did you choose to be straight, and why can't you choose to be gay right now? I believe that if you're smart, you should be able to realize that since you can't make that choice, then it's not a choice. I'd really like to see you answer that question, was it a choice for you? People's patterns and tendencies are established early on in life (nurture, if you will). Though I cannot change my sexual preference entirely to become homosexual due to biological wiring and habit, there is nothing that stops me from attempting to have a homosexual relationship with a man (CHOICE outweighs ALL OTHER FACTORS). And given long enough or numerous enough relationships, yes, I think I'd be inclined towards them.
And I'm completely disgusted at the idea of trying to switch my sexual orientation so why should people ever have to switch when they're harmless anyway? Biological imperative? Buddy Jesus? Either way, I'm straight and I'm not having children.
Of course I could go ahead and have sex with a dude though because mechanically it's possible, but that doesn't change my sexual orientation. And chances are, I could do it a lot, and at the end of it I'd still be straight and I'd still be unhappy sexually.
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Feels like the world isn't giving me enough positive attention.
NERD PRIDE PARADE!
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Thank you TL. I for one appreciate this show of support and solidarity, especially at a time when even this thread and the one on reddit show why shows of support like this are so needed.
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Why are people acting as though this is what introduced politics into esports? There has already been tons of controversy in the community over players like Scarlett or women in esports in general. I'm happy to see the admin of TL express their support for those sections of their community who at times may feel unwelcome because of bigots within the community!
Rock on TL
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I greatly approve of such expression by the Team Liquid staff.
Team Liquid Fighting!!
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On June 25 2013 02:17 Tyrran wrote:
Why do we even care if homosexuality is a choice ?
If it is, then the people choosing to be gay should have the same rigth that the people choosing to be straigth.
If it is not, they should still have the same rigth.
I personnally ( based on discussion with many gay friends) think it is not a choice. But overall, it doesnt change a thing on how they deserve rigth equality.
Kudos to TL for speaking up.
It's important to understand the dynamics behind what's going on. This is actually pretty similar to the debate about obesity, you need to establish what factors are coming from "nurture" and what factors are coming from "nature", otherwise you have two groups yelling at each other "Go make the fatties work out!!" and "They can't do anything about it!!!!11"
It's pretty basic groundwork to establish a common understanding about the topic. There is enough evidence to it pointing towards nature which is the only possible argument to take any basis away when it comes to people saying "But but it's unnatural!!"
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EPT
