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On June 25 2013 02:00 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 01:59 sabas123 wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 01:38 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:35 Iyerbeth wrote:
I find myself with a question about the people claiming that if sex isn't for reproduction then it is wrong because it is 'against the designof evolution' or whatever.
Do you apply the same rigorous standards of darwinian natural selection to all aspects of your life, or just when it suits you? Even Dawkins stated he wouldn't want to live in such a society and he's about the biggest proponent of evolution you'll find. ... I said that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction. All mammals on earth use sex as a means of reproduction. Humans are unique on this earth, but why should that change the purpose of sex? That purpose dictates the vast majority of the world's sexual preference. It might be a harsh viewpoint, but it doesn't make it any less valid.I have been saying over and over again that any biological programming or learned behavior is overshadowed by choice... Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. could you plz clarafy this for me? why do you hate it so much that people are diffrent and like having sex who have type of body? Let me say it ANOTHER TIME: I do not hate or vilify those that are gay. I simply disagree with homosexuality. I do not let that disagreement color my interactions with homosexuals. I am capable of restraint. I am simply sharing my viewpoint. I respect the common view. I just disagree with it.
Then you're straight up ignorant on the subject yet you're still trying to express an opinion about it. Your opinion that disagrees with homosexuality stems from a fundamental lack of understanding. There's a graph probably easily searchable on Google images that depicts "Mt. Stupid". The X axis represents understanding of a subject while the Y-axis represents willingness to opine on that same subject. "Mt. Stupid" is the bump in this graph representing people with little understanding on a subject who still opine heavily on it.
Come down off Mt. Stupid and please inform yourself properly before forming an opinion
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On June 25 2013 02:16 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:14 A Wet Shamwow wrote:On June 25 2013 02:11 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:07 Djzapz wrote:On June 25 2013 02:05 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:01 Steel wrote:
"As usual, the debate ended with everyone losing. The clash of intractable views produced no harmony, just exhaustion and an ache in the back of the skull"
I can't believe how much people try to argue for or against causes they affect them so little. You're not ignorant and uneducated saying that homosexuality is wrong because nature didn't intend for it, but why do you care so much? Are you nature's white knight, vowed to be opinionated when you spot unnatural behavior? If people like you would go about their business and let others go about their business, then there wouldn't even need to be this gay pride bullshit. Your viewpoint isn't invalid, it's just pointless and idiotic to argue for it. Similar to what religious zealots use in arguments. Because this is a forums. People debate on a forums. Why do we debate? You tell me. But do not strike down my views if you disagree with them. Simply state that you think otherwise respectably, and I will take up no qualms with you. But when you post a paragraph saying that everything I write is futile, that it is pointless because it goes against that majority, that I should not debate on a forums or put out a view that goes against the mold, I get more than a little bit irritated. Your views are a threat to the quality of life of many people. I think it's fair to strike them down. Oh my god. Holy shit man. Does no one read what I've said so many fucking times? That these are my opinions, and that no one has to agree with them? There's a difference between disagreeing with people and insulting them. Many people here should cultivate some respect. "I disagree with your existence." Isn't that at least a little bit insulting? Well, come to think of it, a lot of people hold that opinion. And saying that I disagree with the practice of homosexuality in NO WAY equates to saying that I disagree with someone's existence. It means that I disagree with the practice. Not that I'm going to do anything about it. Quit being so dramatic.
But it does equate to you disagreeing with someone's existence. You just do not seem to realize that, and it's understandable, since you think that this is a matter of choice, and that any gay person can just go "Well, better be straight now!" and be done with that.
How would you feel if someone would come to you and tell you that they disagree with your choice to have a blonde girlfriend? But hey, no offense meant or anything, but, you know, she's a blonde, certainly you'll understand why that cannot be supported. And you can always just get a brunette, really, it's your choice after all.
Would you be fine with that, or would you tell that person to fuck off and mind their own business?
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Nurture vs nature is completely bs distinction in this context anyway, it is only relevant to studying genes, part of nurture are things like what condition were in the womb, nurture =/= choice.
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The logo is pretty. I like it 
I also like what it stands for.
ggwp TL
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On June 25 2013 02:24 FallDownMarigold wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:00 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:59 sabas123 wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 01:38 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:35 Iyerbeth wrote:
I find myself with a question about the people claiming that if sex isn't for reproduction then it is wrong because it is 'against the designof evolution' or whatever.
Do you apply the same rigorous standards of darwinian natural selection to all aspects of your life, or just when it suits you? Even Dawkins stated he wouldn't want to live in such a society and he's about the biggest proponent of evolution you'll find. ... I said that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction. All mammals on earth use sex as a means of reproduction. Humans are unique on this earth, but why should that change the purpose of sex? That purpose dictates the vast majority of the world's sexual preference. It might be a harsh viewpoint, but it doesn't make it any less valid.I have been saying over and over again that any biological programming or learned behavior is overshadowed by choice... Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. could you plz clarafy this for me? why do you hate it so much that people are diffrent and like having sex who have type of body? Let me say it ANOTHER TIME: I do not hate or vilify those that are gay. I simply disagree with homosexuality. I do not let that disagreement color my interactions with homosexuals. I am capable of restraint. I am simply sharing my viewpoint. I respect the common view. I just disagree with it. Then you're straight up ignorant on the subject yet you're still trying to express an opinion about it. Your opinion that disagrees with homosexuality stems from a fundamental lack of understanding. There's a graph probably easily searchable on Google images that depicts "Mt. Stupid". The X axis represents understanding of a subject while the Y-axis represents willingness to opine on that same subject. "Mt. Stupid" is the bump in this graph representing people with little understanding on a subject who still opine heavily on it. Come down off Mt. Stupid and please inform yourself properly before forming an opinion
You must really dislike me. Is that why you insult me? Whoever posted that quote about "debate being exhausted, thus leading to people insulting each other" sure has one thing right.
Your whole post is a giant insult, lol. Damn man. Cultivate some respect.
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So, is this entire thread basically 32 pages of Supporters arguing against Qwyn? If so, then I'd say, while vocal, he represents the minority, and support for equal rights, at least on this forum are vastly on the pro-side.
Choice or not, why does it matter. It doesn't to me, they deserve equal rights, just as I have rights to be my sexual preference.
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On June 25 2013 02:27 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:24 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 25 2013 02:00 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:59 sabas123 wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 01:38 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:35 Iyerbeth wrote:
I find myself with a question about the people claiming that if sex isn't for reproduction then it is wrong because it is 'against the designof evolution' or whatever.
Do you apply the same rigorous standards of darwinian natural selection to all aspects of your life, or just when it suits you? Even Dawkins stated he wouldn't want to live in such a society and he's about the biggest proponent of evolution you'll find. ... I said that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction. All mammals on earth use sex as a means of reproduction. Humans are unique on this earth, but why should that change the purpose of sex? That purpose dictates the vast majority of the world's sexual preference. It might be a harsh viewpoint, but it doesn't make it any less valid.I have been saying over and over again that any biological programming or learned behavior is overshadowed by choice... Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. could you plz clarafy this for me? why do you hate it so much that people are diffrent and like having sex who have type of body? Let me say it ANOTHER TIME: I do not hate or vilify those that are gay. I simply disagree with homosexuality. I do not let that disagreement color my interactions with homosexuals. I am capable of restraint. I am simply sharing my viewpoint. I respect the common view. I just disagree with it. Then you're straight up ignorant on the subject yet you're still trying to express an opinion about it. Your opinion that disagrees with homosexuality stems from a fundamental lack of understanding. There's a graph probably easily searchable on Google images that depicts "Mt. Stupid". The X axis represents understanding of a subject while the Y-axis represents willingness to opine on that same subject. "Mt. Stupid" is the bump in this graph representing people with little understanding on a subject who still opine heavily on it. Come down off Mt. Stupid and please inform yourself properly before forming an opinion You must really dislike me. Is that why you insult me? Whoever posted that quote about "debate being exhausted, thus leading to people insulting each other" sure has one thing right. Your whole post is a giant insult, lol. Damn man. Cultivate some respect.
Quit deflecting. It's advice. It's not an insult to tell someone to wise up
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On June 25 2013 02:27 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:24 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 25 2013 02:00 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:59 sabas123 wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 01:38 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:35 Iyerbeth wrote:
I find myself with a question about the people claiming that if sex isn't for reproduction then it is wrong because it is 'against the designof evolution' or whatever.
Do you apply the same rigorous standards of darwinian natural selection to all aspects of your life, or just when it suits you? Even Dawkins stated he wouldn't want to live in such a society and he's about the biggest proponent of evolution you'll find. ... I said that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction. All mammals on earth use sex as a means of reproduction. Humans are unique on this earth, but why should that change the purpose of sex? That purpose dictates the vast majority of the world's sexual preference. It might be a harsh viewpoint, but it doesn't make it any less valid.I have been saying over and over again that any biological programming or learned behavior is overshadowed by choice... Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. could you plz clarafy this for me? why do you hate it so much that people are diffrent and like having sex who have type of body? Let me say it ANOTHER TIME: I do not hate or vilify those that are gay. I simply disagree with homosexuality. I do not let that disagreement color my interactions with homosexuals. I am capable of restraint. I am simply sharing my viewpoint. I respect the common view. I just disagree with it. Then you're straight up ignorant on the subject yet you're still trying to express an opinion about it. Your opinion that disagrees with homosexuality stems from a fundamental lack of understanding. There's a graph probably easily searchable on Google images that depicts "Mt. Stupid". The X axis represents understanding of a subject while the Y-axis represents willingness to opine on that same subject. "Mt. Stupid" is the bump in this graph representing people with little understanding on a subject who still opine heavily on it. Come down off Mt. Stupid and please inform yourself properly before forming an opinion You must really dislike me. Is that why you insult me? Whoever posted that quote about "debate being exhausted, thus leading to people insulting each other" sure has one thing right. Your whole post is a giant insult, lol. Damn man. Cultivate some respect.
Contrary to popular belief, not all opinions deserve respect.
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On June 25 2013 02:27 Kazeyonoma wrote:
So, is this entire thread basically 32 pages of Supporters arguing against Qwyn? If so, then I'd say, while vocal, he represents the minority, and support for equal rights, at least on this forum are vastly on the pro-side.
Choice or not, why does it matter. It doesn't to me, they deserve equal rights, just as I have rights to be my sexual preference.
It's like 3 people who don't like the horse for various reasons and then 32 pages of people jerking off to how far we need to come as a community because there's people who disagree with us.
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On June 25 2013 02:24 Conti wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:16 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:14 A Wet Shamwow wrote:On June 25 2013 02:11 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:07 Djzapz wrote:On June 25 2013 02:05 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:01 Steel wrote:
"As usual, the debate ended with everyone losing. The clash of intractable views produced no harmony, just exhaustion and an ache in the back of the skull"
I can't believe how much people try to argue for or against causes they affect them so little. You're not ignorant and uneducated saying that homosexuality is wrong because nature didn't intend for it, but why do you care so much? Are you nature's white knight, vowed to be opinionated when you spot unnatural behavior? If people like you would go about their business and let others go about their business, then there wouldn't even need to be this gay pride bullshit. Your viewpoint isn't invalid, it's just pointless and idiotic to argue for it. Similar to what religious zealots use in arguments. Because this is a forums. People debate on a forums. Why do we debate? You tell me. But do not strike down my views if you disagree with them. Simply state that you think otherwise respectably, and I will take up no qualms with you. But when you post a paragraph saying that everything I write is futile, that it is pointless because it goes against that majority, that I should not debate on a forums or put out a view that goes against the mold, I get more than a little bit irritated. Your views are a threat to the quality of life of many people. I think it's fair to strike them down. Oh my god. Holy shit man. Does no one read what I've said so many fucking times? That these are my opinions, and that no one has to agree with them? There's a difference between disagreeing with people and insulting them. Many people here should cultivate some respect. "I disagree with your existence." Isn't that at least a little bit insulting? Well, come to think of it, a lot of people hold that opinion. And saying that I disagree with the practice of homosexuality in NO WAY equates to saying that I disagree with someone's existence. It means that I disagree with the practice. Not that I'm going to do anything about it. Quit being so dramatic. But it does equate to you disagreeing with someone's existence. You just do not seem to realize that, and it's understandable, since you think that this is a matter of choice, and that any gay person can just go "Well, better be straight now!" and be done with that. How would you feel if someone would come to you and tell you that they disagree with your choice to have a blonde girlfriend? But hey, no offense meant or anything, but, you know, she's a blonde, certainly you'll understand why that cannot be supported. And you can always just get a brunette, really, it's your choice after all. Would you be fine with that, or would you tell that person to fuck off and mind their own business?
It's my OPINION. If someone ASKS ME IT, or INVITES ME TO GIVE IT (a forum), then for God's sake, I'm going to give my opinion! Don't tell me not to give my opinion on the issue just because you disagree with it! I'm not going to barge into someone's life and tell them what to do or what to think. The beauty of a forum or debate is that there are multiple opinions each with weight and validity! Cultivate some respect and politely tell me you disagree with me instead of flat out insulting me.
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On June 25 2013 02:29 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:27 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:24 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 25 2013 02:00 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:59 sabas123 wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 01:38 Qwyn wrote:
[quote]
...
I said that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction. All mammals on earth use sex as a means of reproduction. Humans are unique on this earth, but why should that change the purpose of sex? That purpose dictates the vast majority of the world's sexual preference. It might be a harsh viewpoint, but it doesn't make it any less valid.
I have been saying over and over again that any biological programming or learned behavior is overshadowed by choice... Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. could you plz clarafy this for me? why do you hate it so much that people are diffrent and like having sex who have type of body? Let me say it ANOTHER TIME: I do not hate or vilify those that are gay. I simply disagree with homosexuality. I do not let that disagreement color my interactions with homosexuals. I am capable of restraint. I am simply sharing my viewpoint. I respect the common view. I just disagree with it. Then you're straight up ignorant on the subject yet you're still trying to express an opinion about it. Your opinion that disagrees with homosexuality stems from a fundamental lack of understanding. There's a graph probably easily searchable on Google images that depicts "Mt. Stupid". The X axis represents understanding of a subject while the Y-axis represents willingness to opine on that same subject. "Mt. Stupid" is the bump in this graph representing people with little understanding on a subject who still opine heavily on it. Come down off Mt. Stupid and please inform yourself properly before forming an opinion You must really dislike me. Is that why you insult me? Whoever posted that quote about "debate being exhausted, thus leading to people insulting each other" sure has one thing right. Your whole post is a giant insult, lol. Damn man. Cultivate some respect. Contrary to popular belief, not all opinions deserve respect.
No, but all people do.
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On June 25 2013 02:27 Kazeyonoma wrote:
So, is this entire thread basically 32 pages of Supporters arguing against Qwyn? If so, then I'd say, while vocal, he represents the minority, and support for equal rights, at least on this forum are vastly on the pro-side.
Choice or not, why does it matter. It doesn't to me, they deserve equal rights, just as I have rights to be my sexual preference.
Well said
the problem is not what they do, but that people make to much of bs out of it.
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On June 25 2013 02:29 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:27 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:24 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 25 2013 02:00 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:59 sabas123 wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 01:38 Qwyn wrote:
[quote]
...
I said that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction. All mammals on earth use sex as a means of reproduction. Humans are unique on this earth, but why should that change the purpose of sex? That purpose dictates the vast majority of the world's sexual preference. It might be a harsh viewpoint, but it doesn't make it any less valid.
I have been saying over and over again that any biological programming or learned behavior is overshadowed by choice... Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. could you plz clarafy this for me? why do you hate it so much that people are diffrent and like having sex who have type of body? Let me say it ANOTHER TIME: I do not hate or vilify those that are gay. I simply disagree with homosexuality. I do not let that disagreement color my interactions with homosexuals. I am capable of restraint. I am simply sharing my viewpoint. I respect the common view. I just disagree with it. Then you're straight up ignorant on the subject yet you're still trying to express an opinion about it. Your opinion that disagrees with homosexuality stems from a fundamental lack of understanding. There's a graph probably easily searchable on Google images that depicts "Mt. Stupid". The X axis represents understanding of a subject while the Y-axis represents willingness to opine on that same subject. "Mt. Stupid" is the bump in this graph representing people with little understanding on a subject who still opine heavily on it. Come down off Mt. Stupid and please inform yourself properly before forming an opinion You must really dislike me. Is that why you insult me? Whoever posted that quote about "debate being exhausted, thus leading to people insulting each other" sure has one thing right. Your whole post is a giant insult, lol. Damn man. Cultivate some respect. Contrary to popular belief, not all opinions deserve respect.
I'm sorry. I respectfully disagree.
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On June 25 2013 02:27 Kazeyonoma wrote:
So, is this entire thread basically 32 pages of Supporters arguing against Qwyn? If so, then I'd say, while vocal, he represents the minority, and support for equal rights, at least on this forum are vastly on the pro-side.
Choice or not, why does it matter. It doesn't to me, they deserve equal rights, just as I have rights to be my sexual preference.
It matters because whether or not its an issue of choice is one of the arguments that was presented in support of Prop 8 when it was first challenged and was raised more recently in the US Supreme Court in the equal marriage rights arguments being made there. It was also used in the UK by right wing organisations and the Church of England in their opposition to same sex marriage rights.
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On June 25 2013 02:31 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:29 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2013 02:27 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:24 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 25 2013 02:00 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:59 sabas123 wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. could you plz clarafy this for me? why do you hate it so much that people are diffrent and like having sex who have type of body? Let me say it ANOTHER TIME: I do not hate or vilify those that are gay. I simply disagree with homosexuality. I do not let that disagreement color my interactions with homosexuals. I am capable of restraint. I am simply sharing my viewpoint. I respect the common view. I just disagree with it. Then you're straight up ignorant on the subject yet you're still trying to express an opinion about it. Your opinion that disagrees with homosexuality stems from a fundamental lack of understanding. There's a graph probably easily searchable on Google images that depicts "Mt. Stupid". The X axis represents understanding of a subject while the Y-axis represents willingness to opine on that same subject. "Mt. Stupid" is the bump in this graph representing people with little understanding on a subject who still opine heavily on it. Come down off Mt. Stupid and please inform yourself properly before forming an opinion You must really dislike me. Is that why you insult me? Whoever posted that quote about "debate being exhausted, thus leading to people insulting each other" sure has one thing right. Your whole post is a giant insult, lol. Damn man. Cultivate some respect. Contrary to popular belief, not all opinions deserve respect. I'm sorry. I respectfully disagree.
Of course you do. You want us to respect your opinion despite the fact that it deserves none.
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On June 25 2013 02:31 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:29 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2013 02:27 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:24 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 25 2013 02:00 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:59 sabas123 wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. could you plz clarafy this for me? why do you hate it so much that people are diffrent and like having sex who have type of body? Let me say it ANOTHER TIME: I do not hate or vilify those that are gay. I simply disagree with homosexuality. I do not let that disagreement color my interactions with homosexuals. I am capable of restraint. I am simply sharing my viewpoint. I respect the common view. I just disagree with it. Then you're straight up ignorant on the subject yet you're still trying to express an opinion about it. Your opinion that disagrees with homosexuality stems from a fundamental lack of understanding. There's a graph probably easily searchable on Google images that depicts "Mt. Stupid". The X axis represents understanding of a subject while the Y-axis represents willingness to opine on that same subject. "Mt. Stupid" is the bump in this graph representing people with little understanding on a subject who still opine heavily on it. Come down off Mt. Stupid and please inform yourself properly before forming an opinion You must really dislike me. Is that why you insult me? Whoever posted that quote about "debate being exhausted, thus leading to people insulting each other" sure has one thing right. Your whole post is a giant insult, lol. Damn man. Cultivate some respect. Contrary to popular belief, not all opinions deserve respect. I'm sorry. I respectfully disagree.
In my opinion Santa Clauss (sp?) is real and gravity is fake. Do you respect this opinion or do you dismiss it as a misinformed/bad opinion
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On June 25 2013 02:31 evergreensc wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:29 farvacola wrote:On June 25 2013 02:27 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 02:24 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 25 2013 02:00 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:59 sabas123 wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:
[quote]
Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. could you plz clarafy this for me? why do you hate it so much that people are diffrent and like having sex who have type of body? Let me say it ANOTHER TIME: I do not hate or vilify those that are gay. I simply disagree with homosexuality. I do not let that disagreement color my interactions with homosexuals. I am capable of restraint. I am simply sharing my viewpoint. I respect the common view. I just disagree with it. Then you're straight up ignorant on the subject yet you're still trying to express an opinion about it. Your opinion that disagrees with homosexuality stems from a fundamental lack of understanding. There's a graph probably easily searchable on Google images that depicts "Mt. Stupid". The X axis represents understanding of a subject while the Y-axis represents willingness to opine on that same subject. "Mt. Stupid" is the bump in this graph representing people with little understanding on a subject who still opine heavily on it. Come down off Mt. Stupid and please inform yourself properly before forming an opinion You must really dislike me. Is that why you insult me? Whoever posted that quote about "debate being exhausted, thus leading to people insulting each other" sure has one thing right. Your whole post is a giant insult, lol. Damn man. Cultivate some respect. Contrary to popular belief, not all opinions deserve respect. No, but all people do.
No, but they way how its going now is just silly.
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On June 25 2013 02:27 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:24 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 25 2013 02:00 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:59 sabas123 wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 01:38 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:35 Iyerbeth wrote:
I find myself with a question about the people claiming that if sex isn't for reproduction then it is wrong because it is 'against the designof evolution' or whatever.
Do you apply the same rigorous standards of darwinian natural selection to all aspects of your life, or just when it suits you? Even Dawkins stated he wouldn't want to live in such a society and he's about the biggest proponent of evolution you'll find. ... I said that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction. All mammals on earth use sex as a means of reproduction. Humans are unique on this earth, but why should that change the purpose of sex? That purpose dictates the vast majority of the world's sexual preference. It might be a harsh viewpoint, but it doesn't make it any less valid.I have been saying over and over again that any biological programming or learned behavior is overshadowed by choice... Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. could you plz clarafy this for me? why do you hate it so much that people are diffrent and like having sex who have type of body? Let me say it ANOTHER TIME: I do not hate or vilify those that are gay. I simply disagree with homosexuality. I do not let that disagreement color my interactions with homosexuals. I am capable of restraint. I am simply sharing my viewpoint. I respect the common view. I just disagree with it. Then you're straight up ignorant on the subject yet you're still trying to express an opinion about it. Your opinion that disagrees with homosexuality stems from a fundamental lack of understanding. There's a graph probably easily searchable on Google images that depicts "Mt. Stupid". The X axis represents understanding of a subject while the Y-axis represents willingness to opine on that same subject. "Mt. Stupid" is the bump in this graph representing people with little understanding on a subject who still opine heavily on it. Come down off Mt. Stupid and please inform yourself properly before forming an opinion You must really dislike me. Is that why you insult me? Whoever posted that quote about "debate being exhausted, thus leading to people insulting each other" sure has one thing right. Your whole post is a giant insult, lol. Damn man. Cultivate some respect.
Well I am of the opinion that you are poorly read and selectively argue with points you wish to address. I also believe that you show low intelligence by using the point the science can't prove how people become gay to back up your point that it's personal choice.
But those are my opinions and I am entitled to them. And I can continue to express them until someone proves that are 100% incorrect, even if they are insulting to someone.
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On June 25 2013 02:27 Qwyn wrote:Show nested quote +On June 25 2013 02:24 FallDownMarigold wrote:On June 25 2013 02:00 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:59 sabas123 wrote:On June 25 2013 01:50 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:46 marvellosity wrote:On June 25 2013 01:45 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:40 Klondikebar wrote:On June 25 2013 01:38 Qwyn wrote:On June 25 2013 01:35 Iyerbeth wrote:
I find myself with a question about the people claiming that if sex isn't for reproduction then it is wrong because it is 'against the designof evolution' or whatever.
Do you apply the same rigorous standards of darwinian natural selection to all aspects of your life, or just when it suits you? Even Dawkins stated he wouldn't want to live in such a society and he's about the biggest proponent of evolution you'll find. ... I said that the primary purpose of sex is reproduction. All mammals on earth use sex as a means of reproduction. Humans are unique on this earth, but why should that change the purpose of sex? That purpose dictates the vast majority of the world's sexual preference. It might be a harsh viewpoint, but it doesn't make it any less valid.I have been saying over and over again that any biological programming or learned behavior is overshadowed by choice... Your viewpoint is actually completely invalid because it's riddled with hypocrisies and mistruths. You do not get to stand on equal intellectual footing as the rest of us until you can start citing some science. You're telling me that the viewpoint that sex is a function of reproduction and that all of a mammal's sexual interactions are catered to this purpose - is invalid? Is this what happens when someone shares a viewpoint that you dislike? You insult me by calling my viewpoint invalid. You act as if yours is the only one which is "right," a hypocrisy if I've ever seen one, since we're all just debating opinions here... And then you delegitimize me and insult me, claiming that I am ignorant and am uneducated. You're labouring under the delusion that it's a difference of opinion; when actually science is overwhelmingly of the 'opinion' that it is very much not a choice. All opinions are not equal or equally valid. I'm not delusional...Someone just quoted a website, APA.org, I think it was...And I quoted a paragraph right back at him. There is no consensus among scientists about the exact reasons that an individual develops a heterosexual, bisexual, gay, or lesbian orientation. Although much research has examined the possible genetic, hormonal, developmental, social, and cultural influences on sexual orientation, no findings have emerged that permit scientists to conclude that sexual orientation is determined by any particular factor or factors. Many think that nature and nurture both play complex roles; most people experience little or no sense of choice about their sexual orientation. The key here being that "both nature and nurture both play complex roles..." I see now, though, that this is what happens when someone steps outside the "circlejerk" (as someone here aptly put it) that we've got going on here. could you plz clarafy this for me? why do you hate it so much that people are diffrent and like having sex who have type of body? Let me say it ANOTHER TIME: I do not hate or vilify those that are gay. I simply disagree with homosexuality. I do not let that disagreement color my interactions with homosexuals. I am capable of restraint. I am simply sharing my viewpoint. I respect the common view. I just disagree with it. Then you're straight up ignorant on the subject yet you're still trying to express an opinion about it. Your opinion that disagrees with homosexuality stems from a fundamental lack of understanding. There's a graph probably easily searchable on Google images that depicts "Mt. Stupid". The X axis represents understanding of a subject while the Y-axis represents willingness to opine on that same subject. "Mt. Stupid" is the bump in this graph representing people with little understanding on a subject who still opine heavily on it. Come down off Mt. Stupid and please inform yourself properly before forming an opinion You must really dislike me. Is that why you insult me? Whoever posted that quote about "debate being exhausted, thus leading to people insulting each other" sure has one thing right. Your whole post is a giant insult, lol. Damn man. Cultivate some respect.
Debate isn't exhausted you are just unable to debate against any arguments, and instead you complain about being attacked, all your post are ignorant claims, and then instead of defending them you complain about being attacked, there is no reason from you, only emotions.
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EPT
