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People are just so different and no one really knows how anyone else feels. Unbearable pain to one person could just be a minor ache to another. Same thing goes with dealing with situations. My ex-girlfriend has a hard time separating other peoples misfortune from her own. She would take deaths in other peoples families to heart and be depressed over them. I on the other hand have no problem with that. I can feel sorry for a friends loss, but I wont lose sleep over it. I on the other hand have a real problem with wanting to control ever facet of my life perfectly. If a girl that I really cared about and I break up (which has happened to 2 pretty long term girlfriends) I dwell on what I could have done to prevent that from happening. I feel like I did something wrong and that I need to fix it. This makes it hard for me to get over a girlfriend. My ex on the other hand can move on and convince herself that things will eventually get better and life will go on. This is a good example of how different people (possibly extroverted and introverted) could react to a situation the way that they do. And also why others can't quite understand what why.
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my cousin committed suicide yesterday, and to be honest, i'm a little pissed. part of me is saying: "i don't give a shit how much pain you were in, suck it up!" but then the other part of me is just sad that he's gone. it feels wrong to think about the dead in a bad way, but i can't help but feel like he really screwed over his siblings.
fucking suicide is the fucking devil. i just want to see my cousin again. i hate funerals so goddamn much.
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Single male, age 35 (He committed suicide after he killed his girlfriend.)
This confused me. I guess since she is dead, he doesn't have a girlfriend anymore, so he is single? If only for a few minutes.
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On April 17 2012 03:58 sc2superfan101 wrote:
my cousin committed suicide yesterday, and to be honest, i'm a little pissed. part of me is saying: "i don't give a shit how much pain you were in, suck it up!" but then the other part of me is just sad that he's gone. it feels wrong to think about the dead in a bad way, but i can't help but feel like he really screwed over his siblings.
fucking suicide is the fucking devil. i just want to see my cousin again. i hate funerals so goddamn much.
I'm so sorry :[ My thoughts go out to you and everyone that knew him :[
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On April 17 2012 03:58 dotHead wrote:This confused me. I guess since she is dead, he doesn't have a girlfriend anymore, so he is single? If only for a few minutes.
Are you serious?
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On April 17 2012 03:55 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 03:45 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:37 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 02:21 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 02:07 Barburas wrote:On April 17 2012 01:48 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 01:41 mcc wrote:On April 17 2012 01:25 Jojo131 wrote:On April 16 2012 23:42 Thorakh wrote:But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it? It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark. And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken. It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least. If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going. Suddenly life isn't so bad? Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ? Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle. Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works. While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases. This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs. While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't. I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide. Also you might want to calm a bit. It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic.
Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person.
Also, it's not like I'm insensitive to the issue but if you're looking for a solution then you obviously have to make some valued/weighed decisions. By your tone you make it seem like I've never, in my own private time, evaluated the views of others.
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On April 17 2012 04:01 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 03:55 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 03:45 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:37 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 02:21 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 02:07 Barburas wrote:On April 17 2012 01:48 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 01:41 mcc wrote:On April 17 2012 01:25 Jojo131 wrote:On April 16 2012 23:42 Thorakh wrote:
[quote]It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least. If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going. Suddenly life isn't so bad? Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ? Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle. Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works. While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases. This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs. While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't. I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide. Also you might want to calm a bit. It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic. Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person.
Well, there's many things one can do to help combat suicidal feelings (none of which include telling them to get over it b/c it's not that bad). Cognitive behavioral therapy, emotional support, anti-depressants, etc.
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Some of those were sweet, a few were fucked up, and most were so, so sad.
--
On April 17 2012 03:55 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 03:45 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:37 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 02:21 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 02:07 Barburas wrote:On April 17 2012 01:48 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 01:41 mcc wrote:On April 17 2012 01:25 Jojo131 wrote:On April 16 2012 23:42 Thorakh wrote:But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it? It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark. And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken. It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least. If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going. Suddenly life isn't so bad? Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ? Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle. Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works. While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases. This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs. While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't. I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide. Also you might want to calm a bit. It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic. I only wish that we can someday live in a world where such appeals are immediately dismissed without question, because of how completely absurd they are.
I think "pathetic" is going too far, but I do agree that trying to compare one person's pains to another's would be a bad method (unless it was an attempt at commiseration through comparison, not guilt through contrast).
I wish we could see what the suicidologist had to say after compiling this list, maybe if he had any sort of advice.
Heh.
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On April 17 2012 01:48 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 01:41 mcc wrote:On April 17 2012 01:25 Jojo131 wrote:On April 16 2012 23:42 Thorakh wrote:But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it? It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark. And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken. It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least. If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going. Suddenly life isn't so bad? Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ? Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
They are both illnesses, both can be terminal, survival in both is affected by genetics, environment, medical care, family support. Your survival rates for cancer depend on how you approach the illness. So following your logic people who were severely depressed by being diagnosed with cancer are weak as those who were not so depressed have higher survival rates. In reality they are of course not in control of that, and the same is the case with many of those committing suicide. Those that do not cope with their illness whether cancer or mental illness are in general no more guilty of the outcome than the ones that do. You should realize that the difference between mental and "normal" illnesses is largely superficial.
And you have low expectations for miracle. People survive cancer all the time and die from it also all the time.
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On April 17 2012 04:03 shinosai wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 04:01 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:55 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 03:45 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:37 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 02:21 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 02:07 Barburas wrote:On April 17 2012 01:48 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 01:41 mcc wrote:On April 17 2012 01:25 Jojo131 wrote:
[quote]
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad? Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ? Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle. Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works. While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases. This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs. While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't. I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide. Also you might want to calm a bit. It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic. Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person. Well, there's many things one can do to help combat suicidal feelings (none of which include telling them to get over it b/c it's not that bad). Cognitive behavioral therapy, emotional support, anti-depressants, etc.
That's a great idea, now let's find a way to pay for it.
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Because of my job, I have to take the train around alot.
One day, I saw an old woman standing in front of me.
I still remember her face very clearly.
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On April 17 2012 04:01 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 03:55 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 03:45 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:37 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 02:21 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 02:07 Barburas wrote:On April 17 2012 01:48 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 01:41 mcc wrote:On April 17 2012 01:25 Jojo131 wrote:On April 16 2012 23:42 Thorakh wrote:
[quote]It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least. If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going. Suddenly life isn't so bad? Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ? Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle. Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works. While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases. This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs. While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't. I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide. Also you might want to calm a bit. It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic. Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person. Also, it's not like I'm insensitive to the issue but if you're looking for a solution then you obviously have to make some valued/weighed decisions. By your tone you make it seem like I've never, in my own private time, evaluated the views of others.
A hug and an "I care, and I'll listen, no matter what" tends to work pretty well--or at least a hell of a lot better than a "suck it up, it could be worse! Your pain is invalid!"
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wow so sad
until i read this one and it cheered me up 
Married male, age 74
What is a few short years to live in hell. That is all I get around here.
No more I will pay the bills.
No more I will drive the car.
No more I will wash, iron & mend any clothes.
No more I will have to eat the leftover articles that was cooked the day before.
This is no way to live.
Either is it any way to die.
Her grub I can not eat.
At night I can not sleep.
I married the wrong nag-nag-nag and I lost my life.
W.S.
to the undertaker
We have got plenty money to give me a decent burial. Don't let my wife kid you by saying she has not got any money.
Give this note to the cops.
top
Give me liberty or give me death.
W.S.
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Being a victim of bipolar depression myself - I can only say that the ones who seem worse to me is not the ones who takes their own lives. Not even the ones considering it. It's the ones judging them for it.
If I chose to not live anymore - I would be happy to get treatment and see if anything could help (as I am actually going to psychiatrist now with my depression), but if nothing could ever make me feel good - who are you to judge my decission? I've had depression for more than a year now - it's getting better, but I still have horrible days. Sometimes I really don't feel great about anything. But having a girlfriend (through nearly 7 years), a brother, both my parents, family and friends who'd be sorry for losing me - and they've all been so supportive, I don't think I would do it. But even if I did. I would rather have they understood me than felt that I "abandoned" them.
Please, don't judge people who're being self-destructive. It's not good - but it's natural and can really help you realize what's important to you.
Throughout my entire treatment, I've discovered things that used to be sooo important to me now means next to nothing. I've been more open to people, open to ideas and open to myself. While I've had to protect myself, I've actually unlocked a whole new side of me. I really hope people who haven't suffered from depression (or anything like it) won't get it. But please don't judge. You have no idea what we're going through or how our minds work.
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On April 17 2012 04:05 Alay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 04:01 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:55 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 03:45 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:37 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 02:21 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 02:07 Barburas wrote:On April 17 2012 01:48 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 01:41 mcc wrote:On April 17 2012 01:25 Jojo131 wrote:
[quote]
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad? Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ? Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle. Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works. While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases. This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs. While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't. I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide. Also you might want to calm a bit. It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic. Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person. Also, it's not like I'm insensitive to the issue but if you're looking for a solution then you obviously have to make some valued/weighed decisions. By your tone you make it seem like I've never, in my own private time, evaluated the views of others. A hug and an "I care, and I'll listen, no matter what" tends to work pretty well--or at least a hell of a lot better than a "suck it up, it could be worse! Your pain is invalid!"
While I agree that would be ideal, you're talking about someone else's time (and care) that may not be available for every unhappy person in the world.
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United States13896 Posts
On April 17 2012 03:53 Holy_AT wrote:
Is there some proof that these are real ?
Some of them seem to be rather strange.
Often times the thoughts of the suicidal mind are extremely strange.
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On April 17 2012 04:08 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 04:05 Alay wrote:On April 17 2012 04:01 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:55 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 03:45 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:37 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 02:21 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 02:07 Barburas wrote:On April 17 2012 01:48 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 01:41 mcc wrote:
[quote]
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ? Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle. Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works. While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases. This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs. While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't. I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide. Also you might want to calm a bit. It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic. Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person. Also, it's not like I'm insensitive to the issue but if you're looking for a solution then you obviously have to make some valued/weighed decisions. By your tone you make it seem like I've never, in my own private time, evaluated the views of others. A hug and an "I care, and I'll listen, no matter what" tends to work pretty well--or at least a hell of a lot better than a "suck it up, it could be worse! Your pain is invalid!" While I agree that would be ideal, you're talking about someone else's time (and care) that may not be available for every unhappy person in the world.
Nor is everyone's time there to tell them to suck it up--point being, if you're showing enough interest in someone to tell them to suck it up, you can probably spare the five seconds to give them a hug and a reminder that someone out there does care.
Or you can just look the other way, if you can spare the time for either--and I mean that with no sarcasm or disdain. Point being, if you're going to show interest in someone, don't use that effort to invalidate their pains.
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On April 17 2012 04:20 Alay wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 04:08 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 04:05 Alay wrote:On April 17 2012 04:01 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:55 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 03:45 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:37 shinosai wrote:On April 17 2012 02:21 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 02:07 Barburas wrote:On April 17 2012 01:48 Jojo131 wrote:
[quote]
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two?
If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle. Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works. While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases. This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs. While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't. I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide. Also you might want to calm a bit. It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic. Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person. Also, it's not like I'm insensitive to the issue but if you're looking for a solution then you obviously have to make some valued/weighed decisions. By your tone you make it seem like I've never, in my own private time, evaluated the views of others. A hug and an "I care, and I'll listen, no matter what" tends to work pretty well--or at least a hell of a lot better than a "suck it up, it could be worse! Your pain is invalid!" While I agree that would be ideal, you're talking about someone else's time (and care) that may not be available for every unhappy person in the world. Nor is everyone's time there to tell them to suck it up--point being, if you're showing enough interest in someone to tell them to suck it up, you can probably spare the five seconds to give them a hug and a reminder that someone out there does care. Or you can just look the other way, if you can spare the time for either--and I mean that with no sarcasm or disdain. Point being, if you're going to show interest in someone, don't use that effort to invalidate their pains.
I was suggesting more of a change in general perspective/outlook for society as a whole, rather than to actually walk up to someone. (which is why I considered it different from the hug/etc)
Again, you could say then that the real ideal situation would be that everyone had the outlook of "everybody loves and supports you", but I find that it isn't very true ("everybody"?) and sounds like something that would be taken for granted. Thats me though.
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On April 17 2012 02:21 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 02:07 Barburas wrote:On April 17 2012 01:48 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 01:41 mcc wrote:On April 17 2012 01:25 Jojo131 wrote:On April 16 2012 23:42 Thorakh wrote:But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it? It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark. And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken. It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least. If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going. Suddenly life isn't so bad? Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ? Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle. Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works. While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
But severity of mental illness has nothing to do with conditions someone lives in. They do not kill themselves because they rationally (but incorrectly) analyzed their lives suck. Their lives suck, no matter what material surplus they have. Rationality has nothing to do with it. There is no rational reason to live, all of them are emotional. If your brain chemistry is causing you emotional problems, there is no amount of rationality that will help you. Your original point was general. There are suicide cases where there is a lot to criticize, but in many there is not.
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On April 17 2012 03:54 Jojo131 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2012 03:53 Wrongspeedy wrote:On April 17 2012 03:34 Jojo131 wrote:On April 17 2012 03:11 Angel_ wrote:On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote:
I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die.
I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die.
I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it? When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really. You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's. Ahh I get it now! Money = Happiness! I can live the rest of my life now without fear or regret! THANKS /end sarcasm It certainly helps.
All I have to do to know you are wrong is turn my head slightly to the right and look at the Kurt Cobain poster on my wall.
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EPT
