"These suicide notes were gathered at the coroners' offices by a suicidologist/psychiatrist who asked to be anonymous. He edited identifying details out of the compiled manuscript, and we changed the names. But the text of each letter plus the age and sex given are real. All these people did kill themselves."
It seems as if I have been spending all my life apologizing to you for things that happened whether they were my fault or not.
I am enclosing your pin because I want you to think of what you took from me every time you see it.
I don't want you to think I would kill myself over you because you're not worth any emotion at all. It is what you cost me that hurts and nothing can replace it.
When I read the title I was afraid the thread creator was gonna be asking for tips or to "critique" his suicide note -.-. But yeah some are pretty fucked up.
It seems as if I have been spending all my life apologizing to you for things that happened whether they were my fault or not.
I am enclosing your pin because I want you to think of what you took from me every time you see it.
I don't want you to think I would kill myself over you because you're not worth any emotion at all. It is what you cost me that hurts and nothing can replace it.
Andrew sounds like a bit of an ass
i wouldnt be so hasty to draw conslusions. She did kill herself after all.
You win, I can't take it any longer, I know you have been waiting for this to happen. I hope it makes you very happy, this is not an easy thing to do, but I've got to the point where there is nothing to live for, a little bit of kindness from you would of made everything so different, but all that ever interested you was the dollar.
It is pretty hard for me to do anything when you are so greedy even with this house you couldn't even be fair with that, well it's all yours now and you won't have to see the Lawyer anymore.
I wish you would you give my personal things to Danny, you couldn't get much from selling them anyway, you still have my insurance, it isn't much but it will be enough to take care of my debts and still have a few bucks left.
You always told me that I was the one that made Sharon take her life, in fact you said I killed her, but you know down deep in your heart it was you that made her do what she did, and now you have two deaths to your credit, it should make you feel very proud.
Good By Kid
P.S. Disregard all the mean things I've said in this letter, I have said a lot of things to you I didn't really mean and I hope you get well and wish you the best of everything.
Cathy -- don't come in.
Call your mother, she will know what to do.
Love
Daddy
Cathy don't go in the bedroom.
The last few lines of this disturbed me greatly...
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
That's so cliché.
You could say the same for every person doing any number of things.
Well, that is the main problem in today's society I believe. How would you explain suicidal people then, I am no zoologist or biologist expert, but I believe we are one of the only species who suicides ourselves. You can trace back their early childhood and all that psychologist stuff, but it all comes down to the ego, if they were people able to transcend from it they wouldn't be blaming their state on others. Some people try to repress stuff and build an internal wall, these people just go ahead and end the problem right away. Dying is not sad ,not living is.
On June 19 2006 07:03 doedrikthe2nd wrote: People who commit suicide don't deserve any respect. If you can't handle the problems in your life you are just a worthless quitter.
That's too simple Did you see The Million Dollar Baby? I can imagine quite some situations that make suicide a choice.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
that sounds like its from the starcraft script. alexi stukov or w/e his name was
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
That's so cliché.
You could say the same for every person doing any number of things.
Well, that is the main problem in today's society I believe. How would you explain suicidal people then, I am no zoologist or biologist expert, but I believe we are one of the only species who suicides ourselves.
ever heard of lemings?
On June 19 2006 07:04 Aukai wrote: Dolphins commit suicide
dolphins are also the only other species to have sec for pleasure coincidence? i think not!
On June 19 2006 05:02 GTR-2-Go wrote: araav he does it he can search up all his posts more easily.
No. It might help a bit, but he definitely doesn't sign so he can search better. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I'd say it's because it's a habit. Or a harmless way to distinguish himself from everybody else to draw attention (which is why he can search himself better, but as I said, that's just an unintended consequence). Hopefully it's not because he's an egocentric retard. We'd see if he was if this forum had colors for text (and if he was he would post in red or blue or some other annoying shit). If it was searching, he'd sign with something that queued the search engine... hmmm maybe Mynock and his post count and a nonsense word? That way he could search it. And for scrolling down purposes he'd maybe bold it and make a straight line of mynockmynockmynock.
-_- yeah I really don't like signatures to post this in this thread. -_-
edit: I did a search and it's spelt Lemming, I'll read more on that. "The actual reason for their 'suicide' deaths is because these mass migrations may last many months and the lemmings become too tired to avoid cliff edges or swim when they normally could."
My suicide note would just be apologizing to all the people that would be sad because of my death. There's lots of points in my life that the only thing keeping me from suicide is how it would so negatively affect my family/friends. To say suicide is egocentric is kind of true. Mostly I think the people just can't continue to struggle anymore and just give up, and do it while consumed with guilt.
On June 19 2006 05:02 GTR-2-Go wrote: araav he does it he can search up all his posts more easily.
No. It might help a bit, but he definitely doesn't sign so he can search better. Giving him the benefit of the doubt, I'd say it's because it's a habit. Or a harmless way to distinguish himself from everybody else to draw attention (which is why he can search himself better, but as I said, that's just an unintended consequence). Hopefully it's not because he's an egocentric retard. We'd see if he was if this forum had colors for text (and if he was he would post in red or blue or some other annoying shit). If it was searching, he'd sign with something that queued the search engine... hmmm maybe Mynock and his post count and a nonsense word? That way he could search it. And for scrolling down purposes he'd maybe bold it and make a straight line of mynockmynockmynock.
-_- yeah I really don't like signatures to post this in this thread. -_-
Lol!
1. It's a habit. It's back from the days I played a lot of Planetarion (Travian sorta) and posted with like 8 accounts, all different names, all same siggy. 2. It's so I can check where I posted last. Not only for this forum, but for many others too. Unfortunatelly the search engine on TL prohibits from searching on short strings as well as searching by posts of a specific user (only admins/mods can do that) 3. It helps me keep my posts decent, maybe you have noticed I like my posts with proper punctuation and a siggy adds to the formality. 4. I'm an egocentric bastard.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
That's so cliché.
You could say the same for every person doing any number of things.
Well, that is the main problem in today's society I believe. How would you explain suicidal people then, I am no zoologist or biologist expert, but I believe we are one of the only species who suicides ourselves.
Dolphins are not the only ones, there are some monkeys that do it too ! We assume they do because they have sex outside the reproduction times..
And why are you all laughing at the "Dearest Helena, By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth" ?? Haven't you read what he's sayin' ?? WE WEREN'T ABLE TO CONQUER THE ALIEEEENS !!! RUUUUUUUUUUUUUN FOR YOUT LIIIIIIIIIFE !!! They're comin' to get you, Barbara..
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
On June 19 2006 08:31 Saint Lucifer wrote: Dolphins are not the only ones, there are some monkeys that do it too ! We assume they do because they have sex outside the reproduction times..
And why are you all laughing at the "Dearest Helena, By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth" ?? Haven't you read what he's sayin' ?? WE WEREN'T ABLE TO CONQUER THE ALIEEEENS !!! RUUUUUUUUUUUUUN FOR YOUT LIIIIIIIIIFE !!! They're comin' to get you, Barbara..
bonobos!
Sexual intercourse plays a major role in Bonobo society, being used as a greeting, a means of conflict resolution and post-conflict reconciliation, and as favors traded by the females in exchange for food. Bonobos are the only non-human apes to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (most frequently female-female, then male-female and male-male), tongue kissing, and oral sex. This happens within the immediate family as well as outside of it, and often involves adults and children. Bonobos do not form permanent relationships with individual partners. They also do not seem to discriminate in their sexual behavior by gender or age, with the possible exception of sexual intercourse between mothers and their adult sons; some observers believe these pairings are taboo. When Bonobos come upon a new food source or feeding ground, the increased excitement will usually lead to communal sexual activity, assumedly decreasing tension and allowing for peaceful feeding.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
On June 19 2006 08:31 Saint Lucifer wrote: Dolphins are not the only ones, there are some monkeys that do it too ! We assume they do because they have sex outside the reproduction times..
And why are you all laughing at the "Dearest Helena, By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth" ?? Haven't you read what he's sayin' ?? WE WEREN'T ABLE TO CONQUER THE ALIEEEENS !!! RUUUUUUUUUUUUUN FOR YOUT LIIIIIIIIIFE !!! They're comin' to get you, Barbara..
bonobos!
Sexual intercourse plays a major role in Bonobo society, being used as a greeting, a means of conflict resolution and post-conflict reconciliation, and as favors traded by the females in exchange for food. Bonobos are the only non-human apes to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (most frequently female-female, then male-female and male-male), tongue kissing, and oral sex. This happens within the immediate family as well as outside of it, and often involves adults and children. Bonobos do not form permanent relationships with individual partners. They also do not seem to discriminate in their sexual behavior by gender or age, with the possible exception of sexual intercourse between mothers and their adult sons; some observers believe these pairings are taboo. When Bonobos come upon a new food source or feeding ground, the increased excitement will usually lead to communal sexual activity, assumedly decreasing tension and allowing for peaceful feeding.
i used to study em o.Oa.
oh thats fucking disgusting, ill bet theyre not christian
On June 19 2006 08:31 Saint Lucifer wrote: Dolphins are not the only ones, there are some monkeys that do it too ! We assume they do because they have sex outside the reproduction times..
And why are you all laughing at the "Dearest Helena, By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth" ?? Haven't you read what he's sayin' ?? WE WEREN'T ABLE TO CONQUER THE ALIEEEENS !!! RUUUUUUUUUUUUUN FOR YOUT LIIIIIIIIIFE !!! They're comin' to get you, Barbara..
bonobos!
Sexual intercourse plays a major role in Bonobo society, being used as a greeting, a means of conflict resolution and post-conflict reconciliation, and as favors traded by the females in exchange for food. Bonobos are the only non-human apes to have been observed engaging in all of the following sexual activities: face-to-face genital sex (most frequently female-female, then male-female and male-male), tongue kissing, and oral sex. This happens within the immediate family as well as outside of it, and often involves adults and children. Bonobos do not form permanent relationships with individual partners. They also do not seem to discriminate in their sexual behavior by gender or age, with the possible exception of sexual intercourse between mothers and their adult sons; some observers believe these pairings are taboo. When Bonobos come upon a new food source or feeding ground, the increased excitement will usually lead to communal sexual activity, assumedly decreasing tension and allowing for peaceful feeding.
i used to study em o.Oa.
oh thats fucking disgusting, ill bet theyre not christian
yeah anthropology 101 I still have my books with all the awesome articles somewhere.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
That's so cliché.
You could say the same for every person doing any number of things.
Yes, life isn't like a math formula. There are many complications, it's difficult to relate to people suiciding because many hasn't gone through the problems they went through. Reading about it isn't the same as the real life experience.
damn i think everyone atleast once in their life has THOUGHT about committing suicide, but in the end the either a) realize what they have or b) dont have enough balls to do it because you dont know if your after-life would be even worse than the life you have now.
On June 19 2006 13:46 Tossim1 wrote: damn i think everyone atleast once in their life has THOUGHT about committing suicide, but in the end the either a) realize what they have or b) dont have enough balls to do it because you dont know if your after-life would be even worse than the life you have now.
Pretty much cut it. It takes some balls to blow over the edge. Anyways ur DNA dictates you not to suicide. It's bad bad for you but sometimes your brain wins the battle and go against ur DNA ridden instincts and die anyways.
Please forgive me. I have tried to be good to you both. I love you both very much and wanted to get along with you both. I have tried.
I have wanted to go out with you and Dad but I was always afraid to ask for I always felt that the answer would be no.
And about Bud, I want to dismiss every idea about him. I don't like him any more than a companion, for a while I thought I did but no more, in fact, I am quite tired of him, as you know, I get tired of everyone after a while.
And mother, I wish that you hadn't called me a liar, and said I was just like Hap. as I'm not. It is just that I am afraid of you both at times, but I love you both very much.
So Long
Your loving daughter
that will always
love you
Mary
P.S. Please forgive me. I want you to, and don't think for one minute that I haven't appreciate everything you've done.
On June 19 2006 08:31 Saint Lucifer wrote: Dolphins are not the only ones, there are some monkeys that do it too ! We assume they do because they have sex outside the reproduction times..
And why are you all laughing at the "Dearest Helena, By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth" ?? Haven't you read what he's sayin' ?? WE WEREN'T ABLE TO CONQUER THE ALIEEEENS !!! RUUUUUUUUUUUUUN FOR YOUT LIIIIIIIIIFE !!! They're comin' to get you, Barbara..
To say that suicide is for the weak, or for people who cant deal with their problems only shows how ignorant you are about the world. I can understand things that would make a person want to give up. However, the people I have NO sympathy for is the people who suicide as a means to get back at someone. Unfortunatly 90% of the suicides I hear about are because of this.
On June 19 2006 11:42 YoiChiBow wrote: if u believe in the bible... u wont go to heaven if u suicide
*sigh* I promise I really wouldn't incite religious debate if I could help it. I just hate it when people claim the Bible says something that it doesn't. Indulge me.
Suicide is the murder of the self, and therefore is identified as a sin. However, believers are forgiven for all sins, are therefore saved, and therefore go to heaven. Romans 4: 7, Mark 16:16, 1 Corinthians 1:8, Acts 16:31, Romans 10:10, Acts 15:11, Romans 10: 9, Acts 26:18, Mark 3:28, 1 Corinthians 15:2, etc. etc. etc.
John 10:27 You cannot be snatched out of the hand of God once you are in it
Revelation 3:5 One your name is written in the book of life it will never be blotted out
Judges 16 Samson uses his suicide as atonement and to wipe out enemies of God Samson is found recorded in Heb. 11:32 with the faithful, meaning he, for example, went to heaven.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
Anyways, back on topic, can you imagine?
You always told me that I was the one that made Sharon take her life, in fact you said I killed her, but you know down deep in your heart it was you that made her do what she did, and now you have two deaths to your credit, it should make you feel very proud.
Good By Kid
P.S. Disregard all the mean things I've said in this letter, I have said a lot of things to you I didn't really mean and I hope you get well and wish you the best of everything.
Right, like you could really "forget all the mean things." Man, that would haunt you forever. I feel so much for these poor tortured people, and even more for those they left behind.
O man this reminded me of the time when one of the kids at my school shot himself with a shotgun just because he was afraid of his marine father might beat him for wrecking his truck. His brother is completely unstable and I don't know what happened to the father. THe poor kid had his mother die at a young age and his brother suicide -.-;
You win, I can't take it any longer, I know you have been waiting for this to happen. I hope it makes you very happy, this is not an easy thing to do, but I've got to the point where there is nothing to live for, a little bit of kindness from you would of made everything so different, but all that ever interested you was the dollar.
It is pretty hard for me to do anything when you are so greedy even with this house you couldn't even be fair with that, well it's all yours now and you won't have to see the Lawyer anymore.
I wish you would you give my personal things to Danny, you couldn't get much from selling them anyway, you still have my insurance, it isn't much but it will be enough to take care of my debts and still have a few bucks left.
You always told me that I was the one that made Sharon take her life, in fact you said I killed her, but you know down deep in your heart it was you that made her do what she did, and now you have two deaths to your credit, it should make you feel very proud.
Good By Kid
P.S. Disregard all the mean things I've said in this letter, I have said a lot of things to you I didn't really mean and I hope you get well and wish you the best of everything.
Cathy -- don't come in.
Call your mother, she will know what to do.
Love
Daddy
Cathy don't go in the bedroom.
The last few lines of this disturbed me greatly...
Imagine if you were 5 years old and found this notice on the bedroom door. Those few lines were the most disturbing in all this by far. Gosh that's fucked up
On June 19 2006 07:03 doedrikthe2nd wrote: People who commit suicide don't deserve any respect.
Those who says that dont really have a broad horizon of experience. They fails to understand that each person has a certain amount of pain they can carry on their shoulders. When its too much , when u dont want to feel anymore, death may seem like a dream.
How do you know what they have been through ? You will never know the amount of pain they experienced. People say : "If you ever feel like you wanna die, think of all those things that make you smile... Live for those things." What if there is nothing that makes you smile. When you dream of future and all you see is dark. You starting to think that maybe people only live to lose all kinds of things - youth, dreams, passion, curiosity, courage and eventually hope. And when there is no hope you are dead. When your heart dies a slow death shedding each hope like leaves, until one day there are none , no hopes, nothing remains.
There are also terminally ill and disable to a certain degree. I wonder if u wouldnt choose death over that kind of life.
On June 19 2006 07:45 KrAzYfoOL wrote: sounds like you've thought about it quite a bit...
Yeah, I think everyone owes it to themselves to consider suicide. Most people don't even know why they are living. At least get to the point where you have visualized how you will carry out your own death since psychiatrists will consider that a significant step in the authenticity of your contemplation of suicide. Then once you have that scenario in your mind, you can begin to think about reasons for living. If you can find no reason or purpose to your life, but you find your life painful, then you should consider the idea that life might not be for you. Maybe you don't find meaning, but you don't consider life to be painful, then you might think "Well I have no reason to live but I have no reason to die. I'm living at the moment so I'll just carry that out."
Periodically I will recall and consider suicide in order to restore the meaning in my life when I have lost it, so that I can bring meaning to the forefront of my actions. It is just the same as anyone who is doing an activity and thinks "maybe I should quit". Most of you reading this have quit BW. Did it lose meaning to you? Were there several times during your career that you contemplated if it was worth it anymore? It's very easy for meaning to be lost, and it can be very difficult to find it again.
To say that suicide is simply a failure to address problems is missing the point. That is just considering whether or not life is happiness. Most people have generally happy lives and have no reason to question the meaning of it all. But some unfortunate people have unhappy lives and that provokes them to ask the simple question - why? When they find no meaning, they have no will to become happy. But perhaps they do find meaning but are engulfed by so much pain that they cannot handle it. They fail, as you are quick to say. Is that so dishonorable? Does it deserve mockery and condescension? They were literally struggling for their lives and they could not succeed. Nobody is fit to judge them for what they were able or not able to do.
“If God were suddenly condemned to live the life which He has inflicted upon men, He would kill Himself.” - Dumas
Anyway, about suicide leading to Christian Hell, I don't buy it. Everyone sins and the act of suicide is just one sin among many. Access to heaven is dependent on something else.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
This is actually so very true, if narcissistic people could actually be around to see how people would mourn them, they would commit suicide everyday.
It's just so goddamn selfish.
What makes you guys qualified to judge? Have you studied the psychology of suicidal people? How much art (novels, paintings, music) have you experienced that relates to suicide? How close have you been to suicide yourselves?
On June 19 2006 11:42 YoiChiBow wrote: if u believe in the bible... u wont go to heaven if u suicide
*sigh* I promise I really wouldn't incite religious debate if I could help it. I just hate it when people claim the Bible says something that it doesn't. Indulge me.
Suicide is the murder of the self, and therefore is identified as a sin. However, believers are forgiven for all sins, are therefore saved, and therefore go to heaven. Romans 4: 7, Mark 16:16, 1 Corinthians 1:8, Acts 16:31, Romans 10:10, Acts 15:11, Romans 10: 9, Acts 26:18, Mark 3:28, 1 Corinthians 15:2, etc. etc. etc.
John 10:27 You cannot be snatched out of the hand of God once you are in it
Revelation 3:5 One your name is written in the book of life it will never be blotted out
Judges 16 Samson uses his suicide as atonement and to wipe out enemies of God Samson is found recorded in Heb. 11:32 with the faithful, meaning he, for example, went to heaven.
You always told me that I was the one that made Sharon take her life, in fact you said I killed her, but you know down deep in your heart it was you that made her do what she did, and now you have two deaths to your credit, it should make you feel very proud.
Good By Kid
P.S. Disregard all the mean things I've said in this letter, I have said a lot of things to you I didn't really mean and I hope you get well and wish you the best of everything.
Right, like you could really "forget all the mean things." Man, that would haunt you forever. I feel so much for these poor tortured people, and even more for those they left behind.
Please don't talk about something you don't understand.
The basest mortal sin is utter loss of hope. To get to heaven, you have to accept God. And to accept him, you certainly can't have no faith that he exists. Suicide isn't just murdering yourself. Otherwise, it could be forgiven (like a murder could be). If you believe that God created the universe and you, what are you doing when you kill yourself? Why shouldn't you let God decide when your time has come? Why don't you stay alive and do good works? Why don't you spread the word of God? Why don't you try to get closer to God?
It's because you've lost all faith that there is God. If you kill yourself, you're acting in a way which demonstrates your complete disbelief in God. You're not unsure about it, or in some sort of turmoil. You're just blaspheming God in the absolute worst way, physically proclaiming that he's not real.
On June 19 2006 11:42 YoiChiBow wrote: if u believe in the bible... u wont go to heaven if u suicide
*sigh* I promise I really wouldn't incite religious debate if I could help it. I just hate it when people claim the Bible says something that it doesn't. Indulge me.
Suicide is the murder of the self, and therefore is identified as a sin. However, believers are forgiven for all sins, are therefore saved, and therefore go to heaven. Romans 4: 7, Mark 16:16, 1 Corinthians 1:8, Acts 16:31, Romans 10:10, Acts 15:11, Romans 10: 9, Acts 26:18, Mark 3:28, 1 Corinthians 15:2, etc. etc. etc.
John 10:27 You cannot be snatched out of the hand of God once you are in it
Revelation 3:5 One your name is written in the book of life it will never be blotted out
Judges 16 Samson uses his suicide as atonement and to wipe out enemies of God Samson is found recorded in Heb. 11:32 with the faithful, meaning he, for example, went to heaven.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
Anyways, back on topic, can you imagine?
You always told me that I was the one that made Sharon take her life, in fact you said I killed her, but you know down deep in your heart it was you that made her do what she did, and now you have two deaths to your credit, it should make you feel very proud.
Good By Kid
P.S. Disregard all the mean things I've said in this letter, I have said a lot of things to you I didn't really mean and I hope you get well and wish you the best of everything.
Right, like you could really "forget all the mean things." Man, that would haunt you forever. I feel so much for these poor tortured people, and even more for those they left behind.
Please don't talk about something you don't understand.
The basest mortal sin is utter loss of hope. To get to heaven, you have to accept God. And to accept him, you certainly can't have no faith that he exists. Suicide isn't just murdering yourself. Otherwise, it could be forgiven (like a murder could be). If you believe that God created the universe and you, what are you doing when you kill yourself? Why shouldn't you let God decide when your time has come? Why don't you stay alive and do good works? Why don't you spread the word of God? Why don't you try to get closer to God?
It's because you've lost all faith that there is God. If you kill yourself, you're acting in a way which demonstrates your complete disbelief in God. You're not unsure about it, or in some sort of turmoil. You're just blaspheming God in the absolute worst way, physically proclaiming that he's not real.
or you could always believe in God so much that u wanna meet him ASAP. when will religious ppl stop telling others what they do and dont understand. stfu.
Please don't talk about something you don't understand.
The basest mortal sin is utter loss of hope. To get to heaven, you have to accept God. And to accept him, you certainly can't have no faith that he exists. Suicide isn't just murdering yourself. Otherwise, it could be forgiven (like a murder could be). If you believe that God created the universe and you, what are you doing when you kill yourself? Why shouldn't you let God decide when your time has come? Why don't you stay alive and do good works? Why don't you spread the word of God? Why don't you try to get closer to God?
It's because you've lost all faith that there is God. If you kill yourself, you're acting in a way which demonstrates your complete disbelief in God. You're not unsure about it, or in some sort of turmoil. You're just blaspheming God in the absolute worst way, physically proclaiming that he's not real.
What the hell are you talking about? If you commit suicide you become reincarnated as a lemming (Ironic, I know).
On June 19 2006 07:45 KrAzYfoOL wrote: sounds like you've thought about it quite a bit...
Yeah, I think everyone owes it to themselves to consider suicide. Most people don't even know why they are living. At least get to the point where you have visualized how you will carry out your own death since psychiatrists will consider that a significant step in the authenticity of your contemplation of suicide. Then once you have that scenario in your mind, you can begin to think about reasons for living. If you can find no reason or purpose to your life, but you find your life painful, then you should consider the idea that life might not be for you. Maybe you don't find meaning, but you don't consider life to be painful, then you might think "Well I have no reason to live but I have no reason to die. I'm living at the moment so I'll just carry that out."
Yea this whole "life" deal isnt really workingo ut for me, ima go try something else.
On June 19 2006 07:45 KrAzYfoOL wrote: sounds like you've thought about it quite a bit...
Yeah, I think everyone owes it to themselves to consider suicide. Most people don't even know why they are living. At least get to the point where you have visualized how you will carry out your own death since psychiatrists will consider that a significant step in the authenticity of your contemplation of suicide. Then once you have that scenario in your mind, you can begin to think about reasons for living. If you can find no reason or purpose to your life, but you find your life painful, then you should consider the idea that life might not be for you. Maybe you don't find meaning, but you don't consider life to be painful, then you might think "Well I have no reason to live but I have no reason to die. I'm living at the moment so I'll just carry that out."
Periodically I will recall and consider suicide in order to restore the meaning in my life when I have lost it, so that I can bring meaning to the forefront of my actions. It is just the same as anyone who is doing an activity and thinks "maybe I should quit". Most of you reading this have quit BW. Did it lose meaning to you? Were there several times during your career that you contemplated if it was worth it anymore? It's very easy for meaning to be lost, and it can be very difficult to find it again.
To say that suicide is simply a failure to address problems is missing the point. That is just considering whether or not life is happiness. Most people have generally happy lives and have no reason to question the meaning of it all. But some unfortunate people have unhappy lives and that provokes them to ask the simple question - why? When they find no meaning, they have no will to become happy. But perhaps they do find meaning but are engulfed by so much pain that they cannot handle it. They fail, as you are quick to say. Is that so dishonorable? Does it deserve mockery and condescension? They were literally struggling for their lives and they could not succeed. Nobody is fit to judge them for what they were able or not able to do.
“If God were suddenly condemned to live the life which He has inflicted upon men, He would kill Himself.” - Dumas
Anyway, about suicide leading to Christian Hell, I don't buy it. Everyone sins and the act of suicide is just one sin among many. Access to heaven is dependent on something else.
thank you, thank you for opening my eyes. as i have no purpose to live i shall go try something else, hopefuly in the afterlife there is a purpose to our existance after all
On June 19 2006 07:45 KrAzYfoOL wrote: sounds like you've thought about it quite a bit...
Yeah, I think everyone owes it to themselves to consider suicide. Most people don't even know why they are living. At least get to the point where you have visualized how you will carry out your own death since psychiatrists will consider that a significant step in the authenticity of your contemplation of suicide. Then once you have that scenario in your mind, you can begin to think about reasons for living. If you can find no reason or purpose to your life, but you find your life painful, then you should consider the idea that life might not be for you. Maybe you don't find meaning, but you don't consider life to be painful, then you might think "Well I have no reason to live but I have no reason to die. I'm living at the moment so I'll just carry that out."
Yea this whole "life" deal isnt really workingo ut for me, ima go try something else.
That's not what he said. He basically said it's not bad to think about suicide and imagine what would happen if you did it. It's always good to imagine scenarios before they happen. It gives you a different and more well thought out outlook on life.
On June 19 2006 07:45 KrAzYfoOL wrote: sounds like you've thought about it quite a bit...
Yeah, I think everyone owes it to themselves to consider suicide. Most people don't even know why they are living. At least get to the point where you have visualized how you will carry out your own death since psychiatrists will consider that a significant step in the authenticity of your contemplation of suicide. Then once you have that scenario in your mind, you can begin to think about reasons for living. If you can find no reason or purpose to your life, but you find your life painful, then you should consider the idea that life might not be for you. Maybe you don't find meaning, but you don't consider life to be painful, then you might think "Well I have no reason to live but I have no reason to die. I'm living at the moment so I'll just carry that out."
Yea this whole "life" deal isnt really workingo ut for me, ima go try something else.
On June 19 2006 07:45 KrAzYfoOL wrote: sounds like you've thought about it quite a bit...
Yeah, I think everyone owes it to themselves to consider suicide. Most people don't even know why they are living. At least get to the point where you have visualized how you will carry out your own death since psychiatrists will consider that a significant step in the authenticity of your contemplation of suicide. Then once you have that scenario in your mind, you can begin to think about reasons for living. If you can find no reason or purpose to your life, but you find your life painful, then you should consider the idea that life might not be for you. Maybe you don't find meaning, but you don't consider life to be painful, then you might think "Well I have no reason to live but I have no reason to die. I'm living at the moment so I'll just carry that out."
Yea this whole "life" deal isnt really workingo ut for me, ima go try something else.
That's not what he said. He basically said it's not bad to think about suicide and imagine what would happen if you did it. It's always good to imagine scenarios before they happen. It gives you a different and more well thought out outlook on life.
I agree that it seems those were his intentions, but Nony's post really seems to justify suicide. He talks about how visualizing it helps him give himself purpose, etc. but in explaining himself he really did justify suicide.
I guess it's up to Nony to post again and clarify his thoughts, but obviously, based on his comments he has far more liberal and accepting views on suicide than most people probably do. There's nothing wrong with that.
I can't get over the idea of being defeated by life though. It seems so pathetic, I just can't justify it to myself outside of euthanasia and suicide based on sickness, etc.
imo, point of views of suicide is similar to politics, sex or religion. It doesn't matter the arguments, 2 different people would never agree about it. It's about beleifs. For me it sum it up that one can't find a way on it's own to continue on existing, it's just unbearable for oneself and needs to find a way to finish it. I personally don't beleive that that exit is a failure but a tragedy for usually there are ways to prevent it if taken enough time. Suicide parents screw pretty bad their sons :S
On June 19 2006 06:36 emoBW4LIFE wrote: PvZ is just too hard... i can't win no mater what i try.
I can't take it any more. Good Bye
any1 find this 1 wierd?
I think everyone just ignored it and decided to post more serious on topic posts.
It makes me sad to think about how both young and old people just want to kill themselves instead of live. It is pitiful that they can't find anything to live for but sometimes I wonder what's in store if I keep on living anyway...is it any better than dying?
On June 19 2006 07:45 KrAzYfoOL wrote: sounds like you've thought about it quite a bit...
Yeah, I think everyone owes it to themselves to consider suicide. Most people don't even know why they are living. At least get to the point where you have visualized how you will carry out your own death since psychiatrists will consider that a significant step in the authenticity of your contemplation of suicide. Then once you have that scenario in your mind, you can begin to think about reasons for living. If you can find no reason or purpose to your life, but you find your life painful, then you should consider the idea that life might not be for you. Maybe you don't find meaning, but you don't consider life to be painful, then you might think "Well I have no reason to live but I have no reason to die. I'm living at the moment so I'll just carry that out."
Yea this whole "life" deal isnt really workingo ut for me, ima go try something else.
That's not what he said. He basically said it's not bad to think about suicide and imagine what would happen if you did it. It's always good to imagine scenarios before they happen. It gives you a different and more well thought out outlook on life.
Ahhh yes i see that now, thanks for your clarification.
On June 19 2006 11:42 YoiChiBow wrote: if u believe in the bible... u wont go to heaven if u suicide
*sigh* I promise I really wouldn't incite religious debate if I could help it. I just hate it when people claim the Bible says something that it doesn't. Indulge me.
Suicide is the murder of the self, and therefore is identified as a sin. However, believers are forgiven for all sins, are therefore saved, and therefore go to heaven. Romans 4: 7, Mark 16:16, 1 Corinthians 1:8, Acts 16:31, Romans 10:10, Acts 15:11, Romans 10: 9, Acts 26:18, Mark 3:28, 1 Corinthians 15:2, etc. etc. etc.
John 10:27 You cannot be snatched out of the hand of God once you are in it
Revelation 3:5 One your name is written in the book of life it will never be blotted out
Judges 16 Samson uses his suicide as atonement and to wipe out enemies of God Samson is found recorded in Heb. 11:32 with the faithful, meaning he, for example, went to heaven.
~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~ ~~~
Anyways, back on topic, can you imagine?
You always told me that I was the one that made Sharon take her life, in fact you said I killed her, but you know down deep in your heart it was you that made her do what she did, and now you have two deaths to your credit, it should make you feel very proud.
Good By Kid
P.S. Disregard all the mean things I've said in this letter, I have said a lot of things to you I didn't really mean and I hope you get well and wish you the best of everything.
Right, like you could really "forget all the mean things." Man, that would haunt you forever. I feel so much for these poor tortured people, and even more for those they left behind.
Please don't talk about something you don't understand.
The basest mortal sin is utter loss of hope. To get to heaven, you have to accept God. And to accept him, you certainly can't have no faith that he exists. Suicide isn't just murdering yourself. Otherwise, it could be forgiven (like a murder could be). If you believe that God created the universe and you, what are you doing when you kill yourself? Why shouldn't you let God decide when your time has come? Why don't you stay alive and do good works? Why don't you spread the word of God? Why don't you try to get closer to God?
It's because you've lost all faith that there is God. If you kill yourself, you're acting in a way which demonstrates your complete disbelief in God. You're not unsure about it, or in some sort of turmoil. You're just blaspheming God in the absolute worst way, physically proclaiming that he's not real.
When you die, can you save the replay and see what you did wrong? I bet Donald Trump has gosu resource- and buildings stats. Not that good units though, considering the "you're fired stuff"...
why is suicide such a taboo? its their life and its their god damn choice to live or die.
And they are not being egoist for killing themselves retards, so they are suppoused to go on with their lives even if they choose not to only to spare their relatives some tears -_- retarded hipocrits really think before you post.
On June 19 2006 23:59 baal wrote: why is suicide such a taboo? its their life and its their god damn choice to live or die.
And they are not being egoist for killing themselves retards, so they are suppoused to go on with their lives even if they choose not to only to spare their relatives some tears -_- retarded hipocrits really think before you post.
It is shown that an overwhelmingly large amount of those who try to commit suicide and fail, recouperate(?) and later on deeply regret the attempt. Not understanding what they were thinking at the time. Suicide often seems well contemplated and rational but it is not, so it is often a mistake that deeply taxes your loved ones' emotions.
On June 19 2006 23:59 baal wrote: why is suicide such a taboo? its their life and its their god damn choice to live or die.
And they are not being egoist for killing themselves retards, so they are suppoused to go on with their lives even if they choose not to only to spare their relatives some tears -_- retarded hipocrits really think before you post.
It is shown that an overwhelmingly large amount of those who try to commit suicide and fail, recouperate(?) and later on deeply regret the attempt. Not understanding what they were thinking at the time. Suicide often seems well contemplated and rational but it is not, so it is often a mistake that deeply taxes your loved ones' emotions.
the vast majority of those retards werent really trying to kill themselves rather than a pathetic scream for help.
"omg i want to kill myself, ill take 15 valiums!!!!" "omg i want to die, ill softly cut my wrists"
fucking bull shit, if you want to die you dont do that bullshit, you blow your brains out, you jump of the empire state etc.
I was going to post a list of links regarding funny suicides, but I thought that would be too cruel and people would flame me so nvm! :[ So here's a lego suicide instead:
On June 20 2006 03:13 mAKiTO wrote: but if its not your time to go you will not go and just end up retarded or paralitic for life and then ur ur familys problem
how can it not be your time? you point a shot gun at your face and no deity o destiny will save your ass, you will die.
On June 19 2006 08:31 Saint Lucifer wrote: Dolphins are not the only ones, there are some monkeys that do it too ! We assume they do because they have sex outside the reproduction times..
And why are you all laughing at the "Dearest Helena, By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth" ?? Haven't you read what he's sayin' ?? WE WEREN'T ABLE TO CONQUER THE ALIEEEENS !!! RUUUUUUUUUUUUUN FOR YOUT LIIIIIIIIIFE !!! They're comin' to get you, Barbara..
Had a friend who killed himself coupla month ago. Didn't write anything at all.. That is the saddest scenario imo : he felt he had nothing to say.. nothing at all. He had to feel so empty :s
friend linked me this as i'd been going through some dark things lately.. dno what about it kept me going but it did.. thought i'd share with tl, but i found it with search (dont need to be banned for not search .. last thing i need ..)
Trina, a college student, 21 years old
Fall quarter I called Suicide Prevention. I'd called them before and the people were nice, but this time the woman acted a little indignant. "Why the hell do you want to do something like that?" she asked. We talked until she said she had other phone calls. But she made me promise I wouldn't try it without calling back first. I had a bottle of Coricidin from a wisdom tooth operation. I'd been thinking about it for a month off and on. Much later that night I took ten Coricidin and went to bed. I woke up in the morning feeling really rotten -- weepy, groggy. I could hardly move I thought I was going to die any minute. My roommate came home and got a friend to drive me to the school infirmary, where they gave me something that made me sick to my stomach. The doctor who gave it to me calmed me down. She said it happens to a lot of people, the pills wouldn't hurt me. I felt tingly, like I might pass out any minute.
I was immediately taken in a wheelchair to the psychiatrist's office. I talked to him about five minutes. He kept yelling ta me about why did I take the pills, why didn't I do this or that. I remember thinking, boy this man is a real jerk. I told him I didn't want to see him any more. He said, "That's fine," and put me in a locked room with bars on the windows. I couldn't make phone calls. I felt humiliated, which made me angry. I'm not crazy. I'm not weird. I don't want people to look at me like I'm nuts. I'm not some nutty kid who tried to knock herself off. I was most angry at being stuck in that room. I expected to be put in a straitjacket any minute. I complained until they moved me a pretty room and let me make phone calls.
I was there about two weeks. My psychiatrist kept harping at me about school -- was I going to stay in or drop out? I saw him ten minutes a day. The other patients and one orderly helped me a lot more than he did. I just wanted to find a place where I could be alone and think about things. I left feeling like not much had been accomplished, except letting me know that I didn't want to attempt it again. No -- I feel like I've become a lot more sensitive to people. I don't look at their problems as trivial any more. I almost like it when my friends come to me with problems. I feel like I can help now. I still haven't told the two people I was most angry at -- my father and my boyfriend -- why I was in the hospital.
so close to home it is unreal..
i keep going because of my friend, maybe these notes will give someone some persepctive like it did me
On April 16 2012 15:23 MrSkyfire wrote: friend linked me this as i'd been going through some dark things lately.. dno what about it kept me going but it did.. thought i'd share with tl, but i found it with search (dont need to be banned for not search .. last thing i need ..)
Fall quarter I called Suicide Prevention. I'd called them before and the people were nice, but this time the woman acted a little indignant. "Why the hell do you want to do something like that?" she asked. We talked until she said she had other phone calls. But she made me promise I wouldn't try it without calling back first. I had a bottle of Coricidin from a wisdom tooth operation. I'd been thinking about it for a month off and on. Much later that night I took ten Coricidin and went to bed. I woke up in the morning feeling really rotten -- weepy, groggy. I could hardly move I thought I was going to die any minute. My roommate came home and got a friend to drive me to the school infirmary, where they gave me something that made me sick to my stomach. The doctor who gave it to me calmed me down. She said it happens to a lot of people, the pills wouldn't hurt me. I felt tingly, like I might pass out any minute.
I was immediately taken in a wheelchair to the psychiatrist's office. I talked to him about five minutes. He kept yelling ta me about why did I take the pills, why didn't I do this or that. I remember thinking, boy this man is a real jerk. I told him I didn't want to see him any more. He said, "That's fine," and put me in a locked room with bars on the windows. I couldn't make phone calls. I felt humiliated, which made me angry. I'm not crazy. I'm not weird. I don't want people to look at me like I'm nuts. I'm not some nutty kid who tried to knock herself off. I was most angry at being stuck in that room. I expected to be put in a straitjacket any minute. I complained until they moved me a pretty room and let me make phone calls.
I was there about two weeks. My psychiatrist kept harping at me about school -- was I going to stay in or drop out? I saw him ten minutes a day. The other patients and one orderly helped me a lot more than he did. I just wanted to find a place where I could be alone and think about things. I left feeling like not much had been accomplished, except letting me know that I didn't want to attempt it again. No -- I feel like I've become a lot more sensitive to people. I don't look at their problems as trivial any more. I almost like it when my friends come to me with problems. I feel like I can help now. I still haven't told the two people I was most angry at -- my father and my boyfriend -- why I was in the hospital.
so close to home it is unreal..
i keep going because of my friend, maybe these notes will give someone some persepctive like it did me
What the hell that school has some unprofessional employees.
On April 16 2012 15:24 HolyArrow wrote: Impressive necro we have here.
I have noticed that there has been a lot of very old threads showing up lately. Not sure why... Kinda neat going through the posts though, seems like everyone has a special user icon.
On April 16 2012 15:23 MrSkyfire wrote: friend linked me this as i'd been going through some dark things lately.. dno what about it kept me going but it did.. thought i'd share with tl, but i found it with search (dont need to be banned for not search .. last thing i need ..)
Fall quarter I called Suicide Prevention. I'd called them before and the people were nice, but this time the woman acted a little indignant. "Why the hell do you want to do something like that?" she asked. We talked until she said she had other phone calls. But she made me promise I wouldn't try it without calling back first. I had a bottle of Coricidin from a wisdom tooth operation. I'd been thinking about it for a month off and on. Much later that night I took ten Coricidin and went to bed. I woke up in the morning feeling really rotten -- weepy, groggy. I could hardly move I thought I was going to die any minute. My roommate came home and got a friend to drive me to the school infirmary, where they gave me something that made me sick to my stomach. The doctor who gave it to me calmed me down. She said it happens to a lot of people, the pills wouldn't hurt me. I felt tingly, like I might pass out any minute.
I was immediately taken in a wheelchair to the psychiatrist's office. I talked to him about five minutes. He kept yelling ta me about why did I take the pills, why didn't I do this or that. I remember thinking, boy this man is a real jerk. I told him I didn't want to see him any more. He said, "That's fine," and put me in a locked room with bars on the windows. I couldn't make phone calls. I felt humiliated, which made me angry. I'm not crazy. I'm not weird. I don't want people to look at me like I'm nuts. I'm not some nutty kid who tried to knock herself off. I was most angry at being stuck in that room. I expected to be put in a straitjacket any minute. I complained until they moved me a pretty room and let me make phone calls.
I was there about two weeks. My psychiatrist kept harping at me about school -- was I going to stay in or drop out? I saw him ten minutes a day. The other patients and one orderly helped me a lot more than he did. I just wanted to find a place where I could be alone and think about things. I left feeling like not much had been accomplished, except letting me know that I didn't want to attempt it again. No -- I feel like I've become a lot more sensitive to people. I don't look at their problems as trivial any more. I almost like it when my friends come to me with problems. I feel like I can help now. I still haven't told the two people I was most angry at -- my father and my boyfriend -- why I was in the hospital.
so close to home it is unreal..
i keep going because of my friend, maybe these notes will give someone some persepctive like it did me
When you go threw shit, you always come out stronger. Its wierd, because most of the things that drive people to suicide are mental conflicts. If you can fight that mental battle and win, then I feel those are some of the strongest people in the world. Physical pain holds no weight in their lives, they have already conquered the mental pain.
I know this is a necro and all, but I am the only person who finds this sick?
These are suicide notes - people's innermost thoughts and feelings before they kill themselves, and the people reading them seem to be taking them so lightly and treating them as entertainment. :s
On April 16 2012 15:50 Sarang wrote: I know this is a necro and all, but I am the only person who finds this sick?
These are suicide notes - people's innermost thoughts and feelings before they kill themselves, and the people reading them seem to be taking them so lightly and treating them as entertainment. :s
no youre not.
but at the same time, people mature. looking at the post dates, i know that if i were reading this thread back when it originated, id probably find myself posting similar sarcastic remarks. however the person i was in 2006 is drastically different from the person i am now. essentially my point is that while you are in the right to find the behavior bothersome, i wouldnt go so far as to start judging people based on six year old posts.
On April 16 2012 15:23 MrSkyfire wrote: friend linked me this as i'd been going through some dark things lately.. dno what about it kept me going but it did.. thought i'd share with tl, but i found it with search (dont need to be banned for not search .. last thing i need ..)
Trina, a college student, 21 years old
Fall quarter I called Suicide Prevention. I'd called them before and the people were nice, but this time the woman acted a little indignant. "Why the hell do you want to do something like that?" she asked. We talked until she said she had other phone calls. But she made me promise I wouldn't try it without calling back first. I had a bottle of Coricidin from a wisdom tooth operation. I'd been thinking about it for a month off and on. Much later that night I took ten Coricidin and went to bed. I woke up in the morning feeling really rotten -- weepy, groggy. I could hardly move I thought I was going to die any minute. My roommate came home and got a friend to drive me to the school infirmary, where they gave me something that made me sick to my stomach. The doctor who gave it to me calmed me down. She said it happens to a lot of people, the pills wouldn't hurt me. I felt tingly, like I might pass out any minute.
I was immediately taken in a wheelchair to the psychiatrist's office. I talked to him about five minutes. He kept yelling ta me about why did I take the pills, why didn't I do this or that. I remember thinking, boy this man is a real jerk. I told him I didn't want to see him any more. He said, "That's fine," and put me in a locked room with bars on the windows. I couldn't make phone calls. I felt humiliated, which made me angry. I'm not crazy. I'm not weird. I don't want people to look at me like I'm nuts. I'm not some nutty kid who tried to knock herself off. I was most angry at being stuck in that room. I expected to be put in a straitjacket any minute. I complained until they moved me a pretty room and let me make phone calls.
I was there about two weeks. My psychiatrist kept harping at me about school -- was I going to stay in or drop out? I saw him ten minutes a day. The other patients and one orderly helped me a lot more than he did. I just wanted to find a place where I could be alone and think about things. I left feeling like not much had been accomplished, except letting me know that I didn't want to attempt it again. No -- I feel like I've become a lot more sensitive to people. I don't look at their problems as trivial any more. I almost like it when my friends come to me with problems. I feel like I can help now. I still haven't told the two people I was most angry at -- my father and my boyfriend -- why I was in the hospital.
so close to home it is unreal..
i keep going because of my friend, maybe these notes will give someone some persepctive like it did me
When you go threw shit, you always come out stronger. Its wierd, because most of the things that drive people to suicide are mental conflicts. If you can fight that mental battle and win, then I feel those are some of the strongest people in the world. Physical pain holds no weight in their lives, they have already conquered the mental pain.
I think this is true too. Any idea why the brain does this?
On April 16 2012 15:50 Sarang wrote: I know this is a necro and all, but I am the only person who finds this sick?
These are suicide notes - people's innermost thoughts and feelings before they kill themselves, and the people reading them seem to be taking them so lightly and treating them as entertainment. :s
no youre not.
but at the same time, people mature. looking at the post dates, i know that if i were reading this thread back when it originated, id probably find myself posting similar sarcastic remarks. however the person i was in 2006 is drastically different from the person i am now. essentially my point is that while you are in the right to find the behavior bothersome, i wouldnt go so far as to start judging people based on six year old posts.
Yes that's true, six years is a long time - didn't really register the fact that it's been that long.
I won't judge anyone on what they said years ago, but if i'd be saddened and a bit sickened if someone treated them as entertainment today.
On April 16 2012 15:23 MrSkyfire wrote: friend linked me this as i'd been going through some dark things lately.. dno what about it kept me going but it did.. thought i'd share with tl, but i found it with search (dont need to be banned for not search .. last thing i need ..)
Fall quarter I called Suicide Prevention. I'd called them before and the people were nice, but this time the woman acted a little indignant. "Why the hell do you want to do something like that?" she asked. We talked until she said she had other phone calls. But she made me promise I wouldn't try it without calling back first. I had a bottle of Coricidin from a wisdom tooth operation. I'd been thinking about it for a month off and on. Much later that night I took ten Coricidin and went to bed. I woke up in the morning feeling really rotten -- weepy, groggy. I could hardly move I thought I was going to die any minute. My roommate came home and got a friend to drive me to the school infirmary, where they gave me something that made me sick to my stomach. The doctor who gave it to me calmed me down. She said it happens to a lot of people, the pills wouldn't hurt me. I felt tingly, like I might pass out any minute.
I was immediately taken in a wheelchair to the psychiatrist's office. I talked to him about five minutes. He kept yelling ta me about why did I take the pills, why didn't I do this or that. I remember thinking, boy this man is a real jerk. I told him I didn't want to see him any more. He said, "That's fine," and put me in a locked room with bars on the windows. I couldn't make phone calls. I felt humiliated, which made me angry. I'm not crazy. I'm not weird. I don't want people to look at me like I'm nuts. I'm not some nutty kid who tried to knock herself off. I was most angry at being stuck in that room. I expected to be put in a straitjacket any minute. I complained until they moved me a pretty room and let me make phone calls.
I was there about two weeks. My psychiatrist kept harping at me about school -- was I going to stay in or drop out? I saw him ten minutes a day. The other patients and one orderly helped me a lot more than he did. I just wanted to find a place where I could be alone and think about things. I left feeling like not much had been accomplished, except letting me know that I didn't want to attempt it again. No -- I feel like I've become a lot more sensitive to people. I don't look at their problems as trivial any more. I almost like it when my friends come to me with problems. I feel like I can help now. I still haven't told the two people I was most angry at -- my father and my boyfriend -- why I was in the hospital.
so close to home it is unreal..
i keep going because of my friend, maybe these notes will give someone some persepctive like it did me
Seems like a very poor psychyatrist. I've spent some time over at /r/suicidewatch talking to people who need it, and the basic things you should read about before posting there explains how to talk to people with suicidal thoughts. This psychiatrist haden't made a proper evaluation or was just bad at his job.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
On April 16 2012 15:31 Jisall wrote: When you go threw shit, you always come out stronger. Its wierd, because most of the things that drive people to suicide are mental conflicts. If you can fight that mental battle and win, then I feel those are some of the strongest people in the world. Physical pain holds no weight in their lives, they have already conquered the mental pain.
I think this is true too. Any idea why the brain does this?
There is a theory on it called "Post Traumatic Growth".
It makes sense in a way. Essentially if you are able to overcome obstacles and work through a very difficult time, you begin to gain resiliency and perspective. Of course this isn't true for everyone, but it does indeed lead to support "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger".
Contrary to what people say, what drives people to suicide most often is not mental conflicts. It is actually feelings as if you have nothing going on for you, you are a burden to others, and ultimately you feel all alone. This feeling can come from mental conflicts, such as depression, but that feeling of burden and being alone is pretty much the unifying factor in most suicides. It's sad, because in a lot of cases a simple kindness could have probably saved a lot of these people. Reading these suicide letters really drills this point home.
I find it interesting that people try to kill themselves over having a tough time. Seems like PTSD as opposed to MDD.
In case anyone is wondering I tried to kill myself 2 1/2 months ago, I tried to drown myself, my dad caught me, greatest thing that ever happened to me, much happier person now even though i'm apparently developing schizophrenia.
For me it just came down to not having one moment of enjoyment in 5 years, just hating life and everyone.
That point before you go through with it is one of the most euphoric moments I have ever had though, and i'm on drugs that would knock you on your ass for 3 days and some that would have you tweak for 3.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
He could have some form of psychosis, you're a sick fucker.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
On April 16 2012 15:31 Jisall wrote: When you go threw shit, you always come out stronger. Its wierd, because most of the things that drive people to suicide are mental conflicts. If you can fight that mental battle and win, then I feel those are some of the strongest people in the world. Physical pain holds no weight in their lives, they have already conquered the mental pain.
I think this is true too. Any idea why the brain does this?
There is a theory on it called "Post Traumatic Growth".
It makes sense in a way. Essentially if you are able to overcome obstacles and work through a very difficult time, you begin to gain resiliency and perspective. Of course this isn't true for everyone, but it does indeed lead to support "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger".
Contrary to what people say, what drives people to suicide most often is not mental conflicts. It is actually feelings as if you have nothing going on for you, you are a burden to others, and ultimately you feel all alone. This feeling can come from mental conflicts, such as depression, but that feeling of burden and being alone is pretty much the unifying factor in most suicides. It's sad, because in a lot of cases a simple kindness could have probably saved a lot of these people. Reading these suicide letters really drills this point home.
Suicide mostly comes from depression, schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder.
Each come from different things.
For example depression comes from the chemical serotonin being sent back into the same nueroreceptors it came from.
That theory is retarded and backed by 0 sound evidence, please use facts next time instead of this unbelievably silly notion.
It was nice reading this thread though. I think everyone contemplates suicide at some point in their lives, it just differs in the degree in which they think about it. Really sad to see so many lives taken though, especially since some of them are so young they couldn't even think for themselves.
On April 16 2012 15:23 MrSkyfire wrote: friend linked me this as i'd been going through some dark things lately.. dno what about it kept me going but it did.. thought i'd share with tl, but i found it with search (dont need to be banned for not search .. last thing i need ..)
Trina, a college student, 21 years old
Fall quarter I called Suicide Prevention. I'd called them before and the people were nice, but this time the woman acted a little indignant. "Why the hell do you want to do something like that?" she asked. We talked until she said she had other phone calls. But she made me promise I wouldn't try it without calling back first. I had a bottle of Coricidin from a wisdom tooth operation. I'd been thinking about it for a month off and on. Much later that night I took ten Coricidin and went to bed. I woke up in the morning feeling really rotten -- weepy, groggy. I could hardly move I thought I was going to die any minute. My roommate came home and got a friend to drive me to the school infirmary, where they gave me something that made me sick to my stomach. The doctor who gave it to me calmed me down. She said it happens to a lot of people, the pills wouldn't hurt me. I felt tingly, like I might pass out any minute.
I was immediately taken in a wheelchair to the psychiatrist's office. I talked to him about five minutes. He kept yelling ta me about why did I take the pills, why didn't I do this or that. I remember thinking, boy this man is a real jerk. I told him I didn't want to see him any more. He said, "That's fine," and put me in a locked room with bars on the windows. I couldn't make phone calls. I felt humiliated, which made me angry. I'm not crazy. I'm not weird. I don't want people to look at me like I'm nuts. I'm not some nutty kid who tried to knock herself off. I was most angry at being stuck in that room. I expected to be put in a straitjacket any minute. I complained until they moved me a pretty room and let me make phone calls.
I was there about two weeks. My psychiatrist kept harping at me about school -- was I going to stay in or drop out? I saw him ten minutes a day. The other patients and one orderly helped me a lot more than he did. I just wanted to find a place where I could be alone and think about things. I left feeling like not much had been accomplished, except letting me know that I didn't want to attempt it again. No -- I feel like I've become a lot more sensitive to people. I don't look at their problems as trivial any more. I almost like it when my friends come to me with problems. I feel like I can help now. I still haven't told the two people I was most angry at -- my father and my boyfriend -- why I was in the hospital.
so close to home it is unreal..
i keep going because of my friend, maybe these notes will give someone some persepctive like it did me
When you go threw shit, you always come out stronger. Its wierd, because most of the things that drive people to suicide are mental conflicts. If you can fight that mental battle and win, then I feel those are some of the strongest people in the world. Physical pain holds no weight in their lives, they have already conquered the mental pain.
I don't think it is weird. Sometimes people just don't have the second chance to restart or fight against these mental conflicts. Sometimes solving one shit leads to even more shit and your whole life is dealing with these shit.
humans are not very good as dealing with modern society (I read about it on a science magazine, there is a small thread about this here:http://www.biology-online.org/biology-forum/about20756.html), we should respect these people rather than judging them
Afterall, we are not them. We haven't had their life experiences, we don't have their personality, we only see and understand things based upon what we know and what we can imagine etc.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
what the fuck...
very interesting reading these.
Its the ending to Starcraft broodwar, how do people not know this.... T_T
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
He could have some form of psychosis, you're a sick fucker.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
Probably psychotic glad you laugh at people with severe mental illness killing themselves.
You're clearly a good human and I'm glad you're around!
Scroll back through the thread, It an obvious troll.
Ahh, thought it was an actual note you found somewhere.
Still though there are people who convince themselves that they're in a movie or something and if the character kills themselves they'll do the same thing.
On April 16 2012 15:23 MrSkyfire wrote: friend linked me this as i'd been going through some dark things lately.. dno what about it kept me going but it did.. thought i'd share with tl, but i found it with search (dont need to be banned for not search .. last thing i need ..)
Trina, a college student, 21 years old
Fall quarter I called Suicide Prevention. I'd called them before and the people were nice, but this time the woman acted a little indignant. "Why the hell do you want to do something like that?" she asked. We talked until she said she had other phone calls. But she made me promise I wouldn't try it without calling back first. I had a bottle of Coricidin from a wisdom tooth operation. I'd been thinking about it for a month off and on. Much later that night I took ten Coricidin and went to bed. I woke up in the morning feeling really rotten -- weepy, groggy. I could hardly move I thought I was going to die any minute. My roommate came home and got a friend to drive me to the school infirmary, where they gave me something that made me sick to my stomach. The doctor who gave it to me calmed me down. She said it happens to a lot of people, the pills wouldn't hurt me. I felt tingly, like I might pass out any minute.
I was immediately taken in a wheelchair to the psychiatrist's office. I talked to him about five minutes. He kept yelling ta me about why did I take the pills, why didn't I do this or that. I remember thinking, boy this man is a real jerk. I told him I didn't want to see him any more. He said, "That's fine," and put me in a locked room with bars on the windows. I couldn't make phone calls. I felt humiliated, which made me angry. I'm not crazy. I'm not weird. I don't want people to look at me like I'm nuts. I'm not some nutty kid who tried to knock herself off. I was most angry at being stuck in that room. I expected to be put in a straitjacket any minute. I complained until they moved me a pretty room and let me make phone calls.
I was there about two weeks. My psychiatrist kept harping at me about school -- was I going to stay in or drop out? I saw him ten minutes a day. The other patients and one orderly helped me a lot more than he did. I just wanted to find a place where I could be alone and think about things. I left feeling like not much had been accomplished, except letting me know that I didn't want to attempt it again. No -- I feel like I've become a lot more sensitive to people. I don't look at their problems as trivial any more. I almost like it when my friends come to me with problems. I feel like I can help now. I still haven't told the two people I was most angry at -- my father and my boyfriend -- why I was in the hospital.
so close to home it is unreal..
i keep going because of my friend, maybe these notes will give someone some persepctive like it did me
When you go threw shit, you always come out stronger. Its wierd, because most of the things that drive people to suicide are mental conflicts. If you can fight that mental battle and win, then I feel those are some of the strongest people in the world. Physical pain holds no weight in their lives, they have already conquered the mental pain.
I think this is true too. Any idea why the brain does this?
People tend to think of surviving through something as an accomplishment. It's not, but it strokes their ego and over time they become desensitized pricks that will continue their parasitic and hedonistic lives as long as possible never amounting to anything. I know this because I may have once felt like a strong person and not just because I know a lot of douchebags.
On April 16 2012 15:23 MrSkyfire wrote: friend linked me this as i'd been going through some dark things lately.. dno what about it kept me going but it did.. thought i'd share with tl, but i found it with search (dont need to be banned for not search .. last thing i need ..)
Trina, a college student, 21 years old
Fall quarter I called Suicide Prevention. I'd called them before and the people were nice, but this time the woman acted a little indignant. "Why the hell do you want to do something like that?" she asked. We talked until she said she had other phone calls. But she made me promise I wouldn't try it without calling back first. I had a bottle of Coricidin from a wisdom tooth operation. I'd been thinking about it for a month off and on. Much later that night I took ten Coricidin and went to bed. I woke up in the morning feeling really rotten -- weepy, groggy. I could hardly move I thought I was going to die any minute. My roommate came home and got a friend to drive me to the school infirmary, where they gave me something that made me sick to my stomach. The doctor who gave it to me calmed me down. She said it happens to a lot of people, the pills wouldn't hurt me. I felt tingly, like I might pass out any minute.
I was immediately taken in a wheelchair to the psychiatrist's office. I talked to him about five minutes. He kept yelling ta me about why did I take the pills, why didn't I do this or that. I remember thinking, boy this man is a real jerk. I told him I didn't want to see him any more. He said, "That's fine," and put me in a locked room with bars on the windows. I couldn't make phone calls. I felt humiliated, which made me angry. I'm not crazy. I'm not weird. I don't want people to look at me like I'm nuts. I'm not some nutty kid who tried to knock herself off. I was most angry at being stuck in that room. I expected to be put in a straitjacket any minute. I complained until they moved me a pretty room and let me make phone calls.
I was there about two weeks. My psychiatrist kept harping at me about school -- was I going to stay in or drop out? I saw him ten minutes a day. The other patients and one orderly helped me a lot more than he did. I just wanted to find a place where I could be alone and think about things. I left feeling like not much had been accomplished, except letting me know that I didn't want to attempt it again. No -- I feel like I've become a lot more sensitive to people. I don't look at their problems as trivial any more. I almost like it when my friends come to me with problems. I feel like I can help now. I still haven't told the two people I was most angry at -- my father and my boyfriend -- why I was in the hospital.
so close to home it is unreal..
i keep going because of my friend, maybe these notes will give someone some persepctive like it did me
When you go threw shit, you always come out stronger. Its wierd, because most of the things that drive people to suicide are mental conflicts. If you can fight that mental battle and win, then I feel those are some of the strongest people in the world. Physical pain holds no weight in their lives, they have already conquered the mental pain.
I think this is true too. Any idea why the brain does this?
People tend to think of surviving through something as an accomplishment. It's not, but it strokes their ego and over time they become desensitized pricks that will continue their parasitic and hedonistic lives as long as possible never amounting to anything. I know this because I may have once felt like a strong person and not just because I know a lot of douchebags.
I died two years ago and discovered that everything I had been taught and told was a total lie, a figment of my imagination, a prison. All it took was a small donation of ego. So don't bother putting me down again (world parents GF) because no effect is generated by insulting a space that's empty. I found something that can't be taken is infinite and boundless only hidden by tons of shit heaped on us. Love.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
On April 16 2012 15:23 MrSkyfire wrote: friend linked me this as i'd been going through some dark things lately.. dno what about it kept me going but it did.. thought i'd share with tl, but i found it with search (dont need to be banned for not search .. last thing i need ..)
Trina, a college student, 21 years old
Fall quarter I called Suicide Prevention. I'd called them before and the people were nice, but this time the woman acted a little indignant. "Why the hell do you want to do something like that?" she asked. We talked until she said she had other phone calls. But she made me promise I wouldn't try it without calling back first. I had a bottle of Coricidin from a wisdom tooth operation. I'd been thinking about it for a month off and on. Much later that night I took ten Coricidin and went to bed. I woke up in the morning feeling really rotten -- weepy, groggy. I could hardly move I thought I was going to die any minute. My roommate came home and got a friend to drive me to the school infirmary, where they gave me something that made me sick to my stomach. The doctor who gave it to me calmed me down. She said it happens to a lot of people, the pills wouldn't hurt me. I felt tingly, like I might pass out any minute.
I was immediately taken in a wheelchair to the psychiatrist's office. I talked to him about five minutes. He kept yelling ta me about why did I take the pills, why didn't I do this or that. I remember thinking, boy this man is a real jerk. I told him I didn't want to see him any more. He said, "That's fine," and put me in a locked room with bars on the windows. I couldn't make phone calls. I felt humiliated, which made me angry. I'm not crazy. I'm not weird. I don't want people to look at me like I'm nuts. I'm not some nutty kid who tried to knock herself off. I was most angry at being stuck in that room. I expected to be put in a straitjacket any minute. I complained until they moved me a pretty room and let me make phone calls.
I was there about two weeks. My psychiatrist kept harping at me about school -- was I going to stay in or drop out? I saw him ten minutes a day. The other patients and one orderly helped me a lot more than he did. I just wanted to find a place where I could be alone and think about things. I left feeling like not much had been accomplished, except letting me know that I didn't want to attempt it again. No -- I feel like I've become a lot more sensitive to people. I don't look at their problems as trivial any more. I almost like it when my friends come to me with problems. I feel like I can help now. I still haven't told the two people I was most angry at -- my father and my boyfriend -- why I was in the hospital.
so close to home it is unreal..
i keep going because of my friend, maybe these notes will give someone some persepctive like it did me
Seems like a very poor psychyatrist. I've spent some time over at /r/suicidewatch talking to people who need it, and the basic things you should read about before posting there explains how to talk to people with suicidal thoughts. This psychiatrist haden't made a proper evaluation or was just bad at his job.
I understand that the people on r/suicidewatch mostly mean well, but in my experience a lot of them are infatuated with the idea of "saving someone's life omg". Then again, my views on depression and mental health issues are reasonably divergent from the mainstream.
To everyone in the thread who mindlessly repeat "Suicide is quitting." "People who commit suicide are worthless and selfish."
F U.
Shows that you have a lot of fucking growing and expanding to do. Like someone mentioned earlier; Killing yourself to get back at others or to prove a point is silly. And unfortunately the letters prove that this is sometimes the case. And unfortunately lots of teenagers kill themselves before life ever really gets going.
HOWEVER. People also kill themselves because they legitimately feel they are better off dead. Leaving notes behind to anyone who cares about them apologizing for putting them through grief. Never doing so to make anyone feel bad, or to change the world.
If you haven't sat at home with a gun, a knife, pills or a length of rope. Simply pondering your existence. If you haven't stood by the train tracks or sat with your feet dangling over the edge. And seriously considered if non existence would be an improvement... You have no right to ever judge the people who have. Ever.
If you think you know. If you think that everyone no matter what they have been through should simply "suck it up." If you think less of someones who hurts so much that they are willing forfeit life. I will give you another resounding F U.
That moment will either be your end, or it can be your rebirth. There is a certain liberation to consciously, and in a very real way making the choice of whether you want to continue. Many times I've heard "I didn't ask to be born." or "I wish i had never been born." Well here is your chance to reset that score. Here is your chance to choose. You end it now, all your pain will go away, you will no longer exist. There is no pleasure, no pain, no nothing. You are free. Or you put down the gun, put away knife, return the pills to the cabinet and throw the rope in the basement. You watch the train pass and lay down to watch the sky instead of the ground, streets or water below. And if you can, you change your life. Recognize much of the stuff that brought you here might be bullshit.
This is the point people reach for different reasons. Some simply can't face the prospect of going on. And know, that some have very good reasons for feeling this way. Others realize that death is not the answer to their particular problems. No matter which path they choose, these are all people who are there for a reason. Don't dare think less of them unless you have intricate knowledge of how and why they ended up there.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
Ahhh, Alexei's sacrifice and Dugalle's guilt. Their friendship will be remembered.
We all start out as perfectly happy little children. Unfortunatly, as we grow, most of us hate ourselves because we believe we are worthless, inadequate and other things society tells us. As a result we will insure that others die perpetuating the cycle and sometimes us. We will either awaken or die. Most prefer death.
On April 16 2012 17:22 VanyarExile wrote: To everyone in the thread who mindlessly repeat "Suicide is quitting." "People who commit suicide are worthless and selfish."
F U.
Shows that you have a lot of fucking growing and expanding to do. Like someone mentioned earlier; Killing yourself to get back at others or to prove a point is silly. And unfortunately the letters prove that this is sometimes the case. And unfortunately lots of teenagers kill themselves before life ever really gets going.
HOWEVER. People also kill themselves because they legitimately feel they are better off dead. Leaving notes behind to anyone who cares about them apologizing for putting them through grief. Never doing so to make anyone feel bad, or to change the world.
If you haven't sat at home with a gun, a knife, pills or a length of rope. Simply pondering your existence. If you haven't stood by the train tracks or sat with your feet dangling over the edge. And seriously considered if non existence would be an improvement... You have no right to ever judge the people who have. Ever.
If you think you know. If you think that everyone no matter what they have been through should simply "suck it up." If you think less of someones who hurts so much that they are willing forfeit life. I will give you another resounding F U.
That moment will either be your end, or it can be your rebirth. There is a certain liberation to consciously, and in a very real way making the choice of whether you want to continue. Many times I've heard "I didn't ask to be born." or "I wish i had never been born." Well here is your chance to reset that score. Here is your chance to choose. You end it now, all your pain will go away, you will no longer exist. There is no pleasure, no pain, no nothing. You are free. Or you put down the gun, put away knife, return the pills to the cabinet and throw the rope in the basement. You watch the train pass and lay down to watch the sky instead of the ground, streets or water below. And if you can, you change your life. Recognize much of the stuff that brought you here might be bullshit.
This is the point people reach for different reasons. Some simply can't face the prospect of going on. And know, that some have very good reasons for feeling this way. Others realize that death is not the answer to their particular problems. No matter which path they choose, these are all people who are there for a reason. Don't dare think less of them unless you have intricate knowledge of how and why they ended up there.
This would be the best post in what has been 8 pages of louzy comments, I agree 100% with what you are saying sir.
To everyone in the thread who mindlessly repeat "Suicide is quitting." "People who commit suicide are worthless and selfish."
F U.
Shows that you have a lot of fucking growing and expanding to do. Like someone mentioned earlier; Killing yourself to get back at others or to prove a point is silly. And unfortunately the letters prove that this is sometimes the case. And unfortunately lots of teenagers kill themselves before life ever really gets going.
HOWEVER. People also kill themselves because they legitimately feel they are better off dead. Leaving notes behind to anyone who cares about them apologizing for putting them through grief. Never doing so to make anyone feel bad, or to change the world.
If you haven't sat at home with a gun, a knife, pills or a length of rope. Simply pondering your existence. If you haven't stood by the train tracks or sat with your feet dangling over the edge. And seriously considered if non existence would be an improvement... You have no right to ever judge the people who have. Ever.
If you think you know. If you think that everyone no matter what they have been through should simply "suck it up." If you think less of someones who hurts so much that they are willing forfeit life. I will give you another resounding F U.
That moment will either be your end, or it can be your rebirth. There is a certain liberation to consciously, and in a very real way making the choice of whether you want to continue. Many times I've heard "I didn't ask to be born." or "I wish i had never been born." Well here is your chance to reset that score. Here is your chance to choose. You end it now, all your pain will go away, you will no longer exist. There is no pleasure, no pain, no nothing. You are free. Or you put down the gun, put away knife, return the pills to the cabinet and throw the rope in the basement. You watch the train pass and lay down to watch the sky instead of the ground, streets or water below. And if you can, you change your life. Recognize much of the stuff that brought you here might be bullshit.
This is the point people reach for different reasons. Some simply can't face the prospect of going on. And know, that some have very good reasons for feeling this way. Others realize that death is not the answer to their particular problems. No matter which path they choose, these are all people who are there for a reason. Don't dare think less of them unless you have intricate knowledge of how and why they ended up there.
While reading this thread I hadn't noticed that it was made in 06. It would explain a couple of things that I felt while reading it. Though some people where being to harsh or mean but being 6 years old explains things.
On April 16 2012 15:23 MrSkyfire wrote: friend linked me this as i'd been going through some dark things lately.. dno what about it kept me going but it did.. thought i'd share with tl, but i found it with search (dont need to be banned for not search .. last thing i need ..)
Trina, a college student, 21 years old
Fall quarter I called Suicide Prevention. I'd called them before and the people were nice, but this time the woman acted a little indignant. "Why the hell do you want to do something like that?" she asked. We talked until she said she had other phone calls. But she made me promise I wouldn't try it without calling back first. I had a bottle of Coricidin from a wisdom tooth operation. I'd been thinking about it for a month off and on. Much later that night I took ten Coricidin and went to bed. I woke up in the morning feeling really rotten -- weepy, groggy. I could hardly move I thought I was going to die any minute. My roommate came home and got a friend to drive me to the school infirmary, where they gave me something that made me sick to my stomach. The doctor who gave it to me calmed me down. She said it happens to a lot of people, the pills wouldn't hurt me. I felt tingly, like I might pass out any minute.
I was immediately taken in a wheelchair to the psychiatrist's office. I talked to him about five minutes. He kept yelling ta me about why did I take the pills, why didn't I do this or that. I remember thinking, boy this man is a real jerk. I told him I didn't want to see him any more. He said, "That's fine," and put me in a locked room with bars on the windows. I couldn't make phone calls. I felt humiliated, which made me angry. I'm not crazy. I'm not weird. I don't want people to look at me like I'm nuts. I'm not some nutty kid who tried to knock herself off. I was most angry at being stuck in that room. I expected to be put in a straitjacket any minute. I complained until they moved me a pretty room and let me make phone calls.
I was there about two weeks. My psychiatrist kept harping at me about school -- was I going to stay in or drop out? I saw him ten minutes a day. The other patients and one orderly helped me a lot more than he did. I just wanted to find a place where I could be alone and think about things. I left feeling like not much had been accomplished, except letting me know that I didn't want to attempt it again. No -- I feel like I've become a lot more sensitive to people. I don't look at their problems as trivial any more. I almost like it when my friends come to me with problems. I feel like I can help now. I still haven't told the two people I was most angry at -- my father and my boyfriend -- why I was in the hospital.
so close to home it is unreal..
i keep going because of my friend, maybe these notes will give someone some persepctive like it did me
When you go threw shit, you always come out stronger. Its wierd, because most of the things that drive people to suicide are mental conflicts. If you can fight that mental battle and win, then I feel those are some of the strongest people in the world. Physical pain holds no weight in their lives, they have already conquered the mental pain.
I definitely agree with you that you come out stronger in the end, though it's shitty if this conflict takes a long time and your life basically stands still for a large part meanwhile. Leaves a lot of gaps to fill afterward.
You seriously created an account to lecture others in a somewhat random thread in a Starcraft forum? Well, not that it was a bad post, but still...
I had an account. But since you get a pw sent to you by email and don't pick one. I originally logged in and forgot about it. Well, i lost my email and got logged out. And while i'm perfectly content with lurking for the most part, i felt i had to comment here. (What i failed to notice, was the fact that the thread is 5 years old. And who i'm hypothetically lecturing as you put it, have probably been gone for a long time.) But i stand by my post non the less. I might just be a random (and outdated) thread on a Starcraft forum. But i was never one to need a big stage. If one single person reads that post and reflects on it. I would consider that a resounding success. And if no one cares, what is lost? It becomes just another random, unread text to join the billions before it.
I read your post in its entirety at least, I was just questioning the motives a bit, but it did give me plenty to think about Edit: haha, you edited. but I liked your explanation so I'll leave it here if you'll allow me to.
I read your post in its entirety at least, I was just questioning the motives a bit, but it did give me plenty to think about
You had the decency to do what i doubt many will, and actually read text longer than 2 lines. And i'm not blind to how odd it looks to put something like that on a thread 5 years old. (Although i hadn't seen that at the time. )
Man I can't believe humans even survive adolescence between "Hey, let's down this vodka and sprint across the highway lol!" and "omg she said what??? My life is over, goodbye everyone...".
The range between not giving fucks about stuff that can actually end you and then placing insane gravity on completely trivial matters is surreal.
I read your post in its entirety at least, I was just questioning the motives a bit, but it did give me plenty to think about
You had the decency to do what i doubt many will, and actually read text longer than 2 lines. And i'm not blind to how odd it looks to put something like that on a thread 5 years old. (Although i hadn't seen that at the time. )
I read your excellent post and replied in my own way.
I find this actually extremely fascinating. Suicide notes are almost inherently interesting, since it is really the last message that you are leaving with everyone you love and hate before removing yourself from reality. Really says a lot about you, in my opinion.
Personally I have considered what I would say in a suicide note, and I realized that I would probably go on for pages addressing everybody I ever knew, trying to say everything I ever wanted to to them. In its own little way I am sure it would be exhilarating, since no longer would I have any inhibitions about what to filter. I could be perfectly honest, and I really wish that I could do that now without having to kill myself, just saying what I want to because it would make life so much easier.
The starcraft one is definitely instantly recognizable. It's kind of funny how the UED just appear out of nowhere. In fact the entire starcraft universe is a bit weird considering earth has better technology than some slow colony ships. You'd think Earth would develop significantly faster than light travel if at all before colonizing a distant planet. It's believable.
At least it doesn't just make xel naga appear from nowhere to become a primary villain. :/
The thread on people being stressed because their bodies haven't adapted to the demands of society is interesting, but I felt obvious. And even then, it beats being hungry :p
On April 16 2012 15:31 Jisall wrote: When you go threw shit, you always come out stronger. Its wierd, because most of the things that drive people to suicide are mental conflicts. If you can fight that mental battle and win, then I feel those are some of the strongest people in the world. Physical pain holds no weight in their lives, they have already conquered the mental pain.
I think this is true too. Any idea why the brain does this?
There is a theory on it called "Post Traumatic Growth".
It makes sense in a way. Essentially if you are able to overcome obstacles and work through a very difficult time, you begin to gain resiliency and perspective. Of course this isn't true for everyone, but it does indeed lead to support "What doesn't kill you, makes you stronger".
Contrary to what people say, what drives people to suicide most often is not mental conflicts. It is actually feelings as if you have nothing going on for you, you are a burden to others, and ultimately you feel all alone. This feeling can come from mental conflicts, such as depression, but that feeling of burden and being alone is pretty much the unifying factor in most suicides. It's sad, because in a lot of cases a simple kindness could have probably saved a lot of these people. Reading these suicide letters really drills this point home.
Suicide mostly comes from depression, schizophrenia and bi-polar disorder.
Each come from different things.
For example depression comes from the chemical serotonin being sent back into the same nueroreceptors it came from.
That theory is retarded and backed by 0 sound evidence, please use facts next time instead of this unbelievably silly notion.
Depression is not caused by serotonin being sent back into the same neuroreceptors. That's not how neurotransmitters work. They actually are not 100% sure in how depression is caused. Much like they aren't sure about how many of the medications work that target brain functions and stability. Many experts agree that serotonin plays a role in that the levels are either too low or the serotonin itself is unable to reach the receptors, but I believe you have the function of SSRI's (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitors - essentially causing the neurotransmitter to remain in the cleft much longer to artificially boost levels) confused with that theory. There are also theories about how other neurotransmitters, such as GABA and even dopamine, have an effect on depression. You'd be absolutely horrified if you realized how little is understood about mental illness, and coincidentally, how the medications work. This is especially true with schizophrenic medications, as schizophrenic and schizo-affective disorders are barely understood.
But what would I know - it's not like I'm in the medical field and spent 3 months doing clinical in the largest mental health institution in my province - OH WAIT... Here's some articles from various qualitative research experiences supporting post traumatic growth. Feel free to use your own fantastic source/evidence finding abilities to derive the articles from their respective sources:
Gerrish, N., Dyck, M., & Marsh, A. (2009). Post-traumatic growth and bereavement. Mortality, 14(3), 226-244.
Kunst, M. (2011). Affective personality type, post-traumatic stress disorder symptom severity and post-traumatic growth in victims of violence. Stress & Health: Journal Of The International Society For The Investigation Of Stress, 27(1), 42-51. doi:10.1002/smi.1318
McElheran, M., Briscoe-Smith, A., Khaylis, A., Westrup, D., Hayward, C., & Gore-Felton, C. (2012). A conceptual model of post-traumatic growth among children and adolescents in the aftermath of sexual abuse. Counselling Psychology Quarterly, 25(1), 73-82. doi:10.1080/09515070.2012.665225
Park, C., Chmielewski, J., & Blank, T. (2010). Post-traumatic growth: finding positive meaning in cancer survivorship moderates the impact of intrusive thoughts on adjustment in younger adults. Psycho-Oncology, 19(11), 1139-1147. doi:10.1002/pon.1680
Scrignaro, M., Barni, S., & Magrin, M. (2011). The combined contribution of social support and coping strategies in predicting post-traumatic growth: a longitudinal study on cancer patients. Psycho-Oncology, 20(8), 823-831. doi:10.1002/pon.1782
Sherr, L., Nagra, N., Kulubya, G., Catalan, J., Clucas, C., & Harding, R. (2011). HIV infection associated post-traumatic stress disorder and post-traumatic growth - A systematic review. Psychology, Health & Medicine, 16(5), 612-629. doi:10.1080/13548506.2011.579991
Zoellner, T., Rabe, S., Karl, A., & Maercker, A. (2011). Post-traumatic growth as outcome of a cognitive-behavioural therapy trial for motor vehicle accident survivors with PTSD. Psychology & Psychotherapy: Theory, Research & Practice, 84(2), 201-213. doi:10.1348/147608310X520157
That's just to start with. Obviously this theory is bunk, zero supporting evidence. Post Traumatic Growth is indeed a fact, but how people grow and adapt is completely subjective. Suicide is often caused by depression, but the stigma that there is something inherently "wrong" with all individuals who commit suicide and this "something wrong" is caused by mental illness is completely misinformed. People with mental illness are much more prone to winding up homeless than dead. The reasons people commit suicide is ultimately subjective as well, but often these people truly do feel that there is no way out and they are alone in their struggles. The human capacity of connectedness can make such a difference here.
PS - there is a substantial amount of irony when you call a theory "retarded" with the implied subtext of how in-depth your knowledge and understanding is on mental illness. /slowclap
On April 16 2012 17:22 VanyarExile wrote: To everyone in the thread who mindlessly repeat "Suicide is quitting." "People who commit suicide are worthless and selfish."
F U.
Shows that you have a lot of fucking growing and expanding to do. Like someone mentioned earlier; Killing yourself to get back at others or to prove a point is silly. And unfortunately the letters prove that this is sometimes the case. And unfortunately lots of teenagers kill themselves before life ever really gets going.
HOWEVER. People also kill themselves because they legitimately feel they are better off dead. Leaving notes behind to anyone who cares about them apologizing for putting them through grief. Never doing so to make anyone feel bad, or to change the world.
If you haven't sat at home with a gun, a knife, pills or a length of rope. Simply pondering your existence. If you haven't stood by the train tracks or sat with your feet dangling over the edge. And seriously considered if non existence would be an improvement... You have no right to ever judge the people who have. Ever.
If you think you know. If you think that everyone no matter what they have been through should simply "suck it up." If you think less of someones who hurts so much that they are willing forfeit life. I will give you another resounding F U.
That moment will either be your end, or it can be your rebirth. There is a certain liberation to consciously, and in a very real way making the choice of whether you want to continue. Many times I've heard "I didn't ask to be born." or "I wish i had never been born." Well here is your chance to reset that score. Here is your chance to choose. You end it now, all your pain will go away, you will no longer exist. There is no pleasure, no pain, no nothing. You are free. Or you put down the gun, put away knife, return the pills to the cabinet and throw the rope in the basement. You watch the train pass and lay down to watch the sky instead of the ground, streets or water below. And if you can, you change your life. Recognize much of the stuff that brought you here might be bullshit.
This is the point people reach for different reasons. Some simply can't face the prospect of going on. And know, that some have very good reasons for feeling this way. Others realize that death is not the answer to their particular problems. No matter which path they choose, these are all people who are there for a reason. Don't dare think less of them unless you have intricate knowledge of how and why they ended up there.
Exceptionally well said. No amount of book smarts can account for the human factor and complexity of this issue.
On April 16 2012 18:22 padfoota wrote: bunch of alt-QQ ers. Should always stick to end just to give life and death a big "Fuck you"
people like you make me sick. pretending to know what another person thinks and goes through. And even pretending like your gonna act tough in the face of death lol, i bet your gonna cry like a little girl when the time comes. Anyone that claims not to be afraid of death is either lying or an idiot.
i think ppl that say suicide is selfish are retarded. Sure it might not be easy for ppl that know you but if you don't want to live it's your own fucking right.It's fucking selfish of them to even say that. The dude just killed himself and you think about you feel?
I think about suicide almost every day. When i see a train coming up on the street I ask myself: is this the day ? I'm 30y old and it's been 14y since i last had a girl. And every time i like a girl i get hit in the face (figuratively, meaning rejection) and hate myself for ever even thinking i had a chance. My job is uninteresting even boring. I play games all day (when i'm not working) to avoid reality, at least there i have a well defined goal. What is the point of life ? work sleep work sleep ? fuck that.
On April 16 2012 18:22 padfoota wrote: bunch of alt-QQ ers. Should always stick to end just to give life and death a big "Fuck you"
people like you make me sick. pretending to know what another person thinks and goes through. And even pretending like your gonna act tough in the face of death lol, i bet your gonna cry like a little girl when the time comes. Anyone that claims not to be afraid of death is either lying or an idiot.
I've seen plenty of patients in my short medical career who weren't afraid of death. Here's a little thought experiment for you: Try imagining what it is like to breath through a straw, every single breath is taxing for you, and over time your muscles become so fatigued that your own chest is too heavy for you to lift, making it impossible for you to breathe any longer and you die of asphyxiation...
Mind you, the above isn't a short process, it takes years from the onset of the disease and you won't have been able to walk around for weeks when the day that you die finally arrives... Trust me, these patients aren't afraid of death, nor are they idiots... People really need to stop making black/white statements, because those aren't fit to describe this world.
On April 16 2012 21:06 Nizaris wrote: i think ppl that say suicide is selfish are retarded. Sure it might not be easy for ppl that know you but if you don't want to live it's your own fucking right.It's fucking selfish of them to even say that. The dude just killed himself and you think about you feel?
I think about suicide almost every day. When i see a train coming up on the street I ask myself: is this the day ? I'm 30y old and it's been 14y since i last had a girl. And every time i like a girl i get hit in the face (figuratively, meaning rejection) and hate myself for ever even thinking i had a chance. My job is uninteresting even boring. I play games all day (when i'm not working) to avoid reality, at least there i have a well defined goal. What is the point of life ? work sleep work sleep ? fuck that.
You might want to:
1) Contact your doctor and tell him how you feel - he can refer you on to either a psychiatrist or psychologist. It really sounds like you need some help and I'm sure he'll be willing to help you out if you tell him what you just wrote in that post. 2) Think about your perspective on life - what makes one man happy doesn't necessarily make another happy. For instance whilst I couldn't imagine myself happier than when I'll get the villa, volvo and dog (it's a crappy translation of a danish phrase, but you get the picture), my sister wouldn't like any of that, but prefers her own 2 room apartment in the city. Perhaps you are focusing too much on social norms and what they dictate you should want?
EDIT: Apologies for the double post, but felt like I had to respond to Nizaris.
Thanks for necroing this thread, really interesting read. I like the almost poetic quality some of these notes possess. "Give me liberty or give me death."
The one of the father telling his daughter not to enter the bedroom is also quite powerful in its implications.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
That's so cliché.
You could say the same for every person doing any number of things.
Well, that is the main problem in today's society I believe. How would you explain suicidal people then, I am no zoologist or biologist expert, but I believe we are one of the only species who suicides ourselves.
ever heard of lemings?
On June 19 2006 07:04 Aukai wrote: Dolphins commit suicide
dolphins are also the only other species to have sec for pleasure coincidence? i think not!
Dolphins are so cool, my fav animal If you consider them that, since they are smarter than us.
I know this is an old post, but honestly reading some of the opinions expressed in this thread has been... upsetting to say the least. That people can lack empathy for someone suffering so deeply they would take their life and so quickly pass judgement onto those that attempt/go through with suicide makes me despair.
On April 16 2012 21:57 Barburas wrote: I know this is an old post, but honestly reading some of the opinions expressed in this thread has been... upsetting to say the least. That people can lack empathy for someone suffering so deeply they would take their life and so quickly pass judgement onto those that attempt/go through with suicide makes me despair.
There are two sides to this and while it's sad that people think that suicide is an answer, they're not the only ones that have to deal with it.
I don't condemn people taking their lives but I feel more empathy for those that are left, provided they weren't the ones responsible for it in the first case.
I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
I work for an organization against suicide in Montreal.
I can say that people commit suicide or consider suicide because they are suffering a lot.
IT DOES NOT MATTER what we think of their reasons (some of them want to commit suicide because they broke up with their girlfriend or boyfriend). No, it really doesn't matter. What matters, is how they feel about the situation, how they are living it.
My job, as some of you hinted it, is to try to convince them to give themselves a second chance, that there are more to life. You would surprised, if you never spoke with a suicidal, how hard sometimes it is to make them realize that. But never judge, that's what I've learned. No matter how trivial things can be (objectively or subjectively), that person is suffering. So do your best to help him or her, instead of calling him weak
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
Anyone who has never been tempted or attempted suicide has no idea what is going through the mind of a person in that situation. You have no access to your objective reasoning.
Everyone deals with pain, but pain is subjective. I believe suicide happens when we run out of tools to deal with our subjective pain.
This site really shares my view of people who are suicidal.
To quote
Suicide is not chosen; it happens when pain exceeds resources for coping with pain.
That's all it's about. You are not a bad person, or crazy, or weak, or flawed, because you feel suicidal. It doesn't even mean that you really want to die - it only means that you have more pain than you can cope with right now. If I start piling weights on your shoulders, you will eventually collapse if I add enough weights... no matter how much you want to remain standing. Willpower has nothing to do with it. Of course you would cheer yourself up, if you could.
I believe suicidal tendencies are completely natural. It's a flaw in natures design, but it wouldn't be the first one. Suicide is not unheard of in nature and therefore hardly limited to the human psyche.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
This is plain wrong. There has been a famous experiment, where new born childs would only get perfect health care (food etc), but no love/contact with people whatsoever. They all died. People both need a healthy environment mentally and physically. And even though physically speaking, most people living in western countries do have all they need for living, they in fact suffer a lot mentally. Be it from a bad breakup, be it from being bullied, be it because they are in so much financial trouble that they can never get out of. People who try to commit suicide do so because they see no way out of their misery. They aren't selfish people who don't want to face their problems, they cannot face their problems. Usually this is the result of being conditioned for years that they are incapable of something, which creates deeply engraved mental barriers that do not allow them to see the world as others with different background do.
To put it in primitive words, it is like you give a dog an incredible strong electro shock every time he tries to eat the food in front of him. Eventually, he will stop trying to eat the food, even if you don't shock him anymore. Sometime he will try again and survive, sometimes he will not. Is the dog smart or stupid? Is learning to avoid heavy pain stupid or intelligent?
To sum it up: There has to have been a long time of suffering/supression and usually an immediate thread that puts a lot of pressure on the person, be it suddenly your boyfriend leaving you and you are all alone, be it getting fired from a job, whatever. Sure, the immediate problem does seem insignificant to you, but looking at the entire history it is just the drop which brings the barrel to overflowing. And even if you help the person for said problem, they might just try to commit suicide next week/month/year when there is an equally huge problem, as long as you don't help with the long-term problems the person has to deal with.
And it is really wicked to blame the suicidal person for your loss, when you are the real culprit not having helped them throughout so much time.
On April 16 2012 21:06 Nizaris wrote: i think ppl that say suicide is selfish are retarded. Sure it might not be easy for ppl that know you but if you don't want to live it's your own fucking right.It's fucking selfish of them to even say that. The dude just killed himself and you think about you feel?
I think about suicide almost every day. When i see a train coming up on the street I ask myself: is this the day ? I'm 30y old and it's been 14y since i last had a girl. And every time i like a girl i get hit in the face (figuratively, meaning rejection) and hate myself for ever even thinking i had a chance. My job is uninteresting even boring. I play games all day (when i'm not working) to avoid reality, at least there i have a well defined goal. What is the point of life ? work sleep work sleep ? fuck that.
This is way more common than people realize. Anyone who says your wierd for feeling that way is deluding themselves.
Heres how I look at it. Lifes just a series of small pleasures: a smoke, a game of SC2, a laugh with a friend. Sure we dont have all that we want, but at least we are not dying of malaria in some third world country.
Oh well, keep on trucking. Maybe life will get better, maybe not. Either way its better than being dead.
On April 16 2012 21:06 Nizaris wrote: i think ppl that say suicide is selfish are retarded. Sure it might not be easy for ppl that know you but if you don't want to live it's your own fucking right.It's fucking selfish of them to even say that. The dude just killed himself and you think about you feel?
I think about suicide almost every day. When i see a train coming up on the street I ask myself: is this the day ? I'm 30y old and it's been 14y since i last had a girl. And every time i like a girl i get hit in the face (figuratively, meaning rejection) and hate myself for ever even thinking i had a chance. My job is uninteresting even boring. I play games all day (when i'm not working) to avoid reality, at least there i have a well defined goal. What is the point of life ? work sleep work sleep ? fuck that.
It becomes selfish when you have people depending on you. It's just like if you would tell your wife and children you're going to buy a pack of cigs and run off to a different city, leaving them in debts and shit.
The following is something I posted to reddit a while ago. I felt the need to share this after seeing so many people in here condemning suicide and saying that it is for "quitters". That's fucking retarded, and sometimes people are put into situations where they feel like they have nothing to live for, and that everyone else would be better off without them.
I was an accident. My biological mother is a British citizen and my dad was enlisted in the Navy. He worked on a submarine as some sort of sonar operator. When I was 3, we lived in Iceland. My dad was deployed for ~6 months or so, and during that time, my mother sold everything she and my dad owned and bought plane tickets back to Wales for herself, my siblings and I.
My dad came home a few months after that, and saw we were gone. He spent the next year trying (and failing) to get custody of us. During this time, I lived in a double-wide in Wales with my grandparents on my mothers side, my mother, and my brother and sister. I have few memories of this time. A little while after it had been determined that she had complete custody of us, she decided she didn't want us and gave custody to my father.
He was essentially forced to leave the Navy (he had 9 years in the service at the time) and we moved to Michigan. My dad got a decent paying industrial job and has had similar jobs since. My mother married another Navy guy and moved to Philadelphia where she had summer visitation. We saw her for 2 months one summer and afterwards, she decided to she'd rather have nothing to do with us.
From that point on, my dad was physically and emotionally abusive. Between that and wondering why my mom "doesn't want me", I became extremely depressed. I tried to kill myself when I was 12, and I would have succeeded if it weren't for my brother removing the noose while I was unconscious. My entire childhood I felt unwanted, unloved, and constantly wishing I had never been born.
I've since gotten over most of those feelings, but my relationships are still fucked today. I'm happily married, but I can't help feeling like she will abandon me at any moment and I'm extremely paranoid.
One of the things I look forward to most is having children of my own, just so I can do right all of the things that my parents did wrong.
I should say that when I was younger I was told repeatedly by my father that he "wished I had never been born" or that he "should have left me with that stupid bitch". For a good 15 years of my life, I truly believed that I had ruined my fathers life. I truly believed that he would have been better off without me.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
Never did I bash it. I said I did not understand it. It doesn't annoy or anger me in any way. It confuses me. I would like to understand though.
Obviously I cannot even begin to imagine what is going through the mind of a suicidal person, I guess the underlying issue is that I can't picture myself being in a similar situation. So in my inability to relate with the person, all I am left with is questions, for I cannot theorise my way to the answer.
You can tell a lot about a person's character through the opinion they hold of those who commit suicide. You either understand the suffering, or you don't. Those who think they understand the suffering but honestly have no fucking clue will have a tendency to come up with absurd explanations or judgments for others' behavior. In other words they come across as naive and stupid.
Don't assume it was out of the blue. Don't assume it's some irrational response to an event in life. For most people who do this, it's been festering inside them for years, sometimes decades. There are people who wish for an end to life every single day because their suffering is so great. If you've never experienced that or seen someone experience it first hand, then leave your ignorance to yourself.
On April 17 2012 00:38 liberal wrote: You can tell a lot about a person's character through the opinion they hold of those who commit suicide. You either understand the suffering, or you don't. Those who think they understand the suffering but honestly have no fucking clue will have a tendency to come up with absurd explanations or judgments for others' behavior. In other words they come across as naive and stupid.
Don't assume it was out of the blue. Don't assume it's some irrational response to an event in life. For most people who do this, it's been festering inside them for years, sometimes decades. There are people who wish for an end to life every single day because their suffering is so great. If you've never experienced that or seen someone experience it first hand, then leave your ignorance to yourself.
I think it's fair to say that for the majority of suicide cases you are right or could be right, but I don't think it's always the case.
------------------------------------ Single female, age 21
My dearest Andrew,
It seems as if I have been spending all my life apologizing to you for things that happened whether they were my fault or not.
I am enclosing your pin because I want you to think of what you took from me every time you see it.
I don't want you to think I would kill myself over you because you're not worth any emotion at all. It is what you cost me that hurts and nothing can replace it.
-----------------------------------
I mean I obviously don't understand what this woman was going through, and I'm not going to lie I know very little on the subject of suicide. But I think it's reasonable to say, that judging from this suicide note alone, there was no deep meaning to it. I don't think it's right to assume everyone has thought this decision through with the respect it deserves. Some people are just irrational.
thinking about suicide every now and then, heres my opinion: what if you dont change after you are dead? if its not a new beginning or an end? thats what always frightens me. change here and now in this life! i know that suicide is the only priceless option for solving problems, but if you have the money you can always buy a new sports car, go to the psychatrist, get a new haircut or move to a new city or whatever. just think about it: if there is an afterlife, things are not going to be better. (i dont know the thoughts of a dying atheist, i just know that it probably scares the hell out of you when the end is all you can see;-) )
On April 17 2012 00:38 liberal wrote: You can tell a lot about a person's character through the opinion they hold of those who commit suicide. You either understand the suffering, or you don't. Those who think they understand the suffering but honestly have no fucking clue will have a tendency to come up with absurd explanations or judgments for others' behavior. In other words they come across as naive and stupid.
Don't assume it was out of the blue. Don't assume it's some irrational response to an event in life. For most people who do this, it's been festering inside them for years, sometimes decades. There are people who wish for an end to life every single day because their suffering is so great. If you've never experienced that or seen someone experience it first hand, then leave your ignorance to yourself.
I think it's fair to say that for the majority of suicide cases you are right or could be right, but I don't think it's always the case.
------------------------------------ Single female, age 21
My dearest Andrew,
It seems as if I have been spending all my life apologizing to you for things that happened whether they were my fault or not.
I am enclosing your pin because I want you to think of what you took from me every time you see it.
I don't want you to think I would kill myself over you because you're not worth any emotion at all. It is what you cost me that hurts and nothing can replace it.
-----------------------------------
I mean I obviously don't understand what this woman was going through, and I'm not going to lie I know very little on the subject of suicide. But I think it's reasonable to say, that judging from this suicide note alone, there was no deep meaning to it. I don't think it's right to assume everyone has thought this decision through with the respect it deserves. Some people are just irrational.
Eh that note suggests to me she could have been suffering from years of abuse from this man..?
It is not something one would decide on a whim, at least not someone of a sane mind...I'll be the first to admit ive contemplated and planned my own, this is after many years of shit, not being denied the last biscuit. Someone posted thats when "scientists" consider it a very real thing didnt they? once you've planned it. Lol, guess im fucked up ^^. Lifes alot better now anyway..i just wanted you to understand its not something you just "do" like making a sandwich.
Also, to that post mentioning suicide happens when pain outweighs ways to deal with pain, i think thats accurate, but its a slow and steady process not just, cross a line and wham im jumping off that cliff!
I understand people's views on empathy for those left behind as opposed to the deceased, but very often they arent just being self-centered assholes like you all make them out to be.
On June 19 2006 07:03 doedrikthe2nd wrote: People who commit suicide don't deserve any respect. If you can't handle the problems in your life you are just a worthless quitter.
dude. F*CK YOU
inb4 epic ban and warnings. Please remove this 'person' from this forum asap.
On April 17 2012 00:57 Heimatloser wrote: thinking about suicide every now and then, heres my opinion: what if you dont change after you are dead? if its not a new beginning or an end? thats what always frightens me. change here and now in this life! i know that suicide is the only priceless option for solving problems, but if you have the money you can always buy a new sports car, go to the psychatrist, get a new haircut or move to a new city or whatever. just think about it: if there is an afterlife, things are not going to be better. (i dont know the thoughts of a dying atheist, i just know that it probably scares the hell out of you when the end is all you can see;-) )
From what my Psychology teacher told me, it's usually the people who aren't completely sure whether there is an after life are the ones who are most scared of death. Apparently there was some research on it, but I've no idea what it was or anything because I heard it second hand. Anyway the summary of it is, a person who doesn't believe in God at all should have about the same level of fear of dying as someone who believes in God completely. Because to those people, they believe they know exactly what happens after death.
On April 16 2012 18:44 CyDe wrote: I find this actually extremely fascinating. Suicide notes are almost inherently interesting, since it is really the last message that you are leaving with everyone you love and hate before removing yourself from reality. Really says a lot about you, in my opinion.
Personally I have considered what I would say in a suicide note, and I realized that I would probably go on for pages addressing everybody I ever knew, trying to say everything I ever wanted to to them. In its own little way I am sure it would be exhilarating, since no longer would I have any inhibitions about what to filter. I could be perfectly honest, and I really wish that I could do that now without having to kill myself, just saying what I want to because it would make life so much easier.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
He could have some form of psychosis, you're a sick fucker.
Wow.. The lack of empathy in this thread... I wonder if all the people here who are belching out demeaning words about people who've commited suicide are suffering their own mental issues regarding this, and are trying to push them away or so. That's the only way I can rationalize them being so cruel.
Suicide is one of the most common causes of death in the western world. Most people on TL probably have a relative or someone they knew who committed suicide for one reason or another. Try to act like a civilized human being next time you want to make cruel insults to dead family members of the people you're talking to.
On April 17 2012 00:38 liberal wrote: You can tell a lot about a person's character through the opinion they hold of those who commit suicide. You either understand the suffering, or you don't. Those who think they understand the suffering but honestly have no fucking clue will have a tendency to come up with absurd explanations or judgments for others' behavior. In other words they come across as naive and stupid.
Don't assume it was out of the blue. Don't assume it's some irrational response to an event in life. For most people who do this, it's been festering inside them for years, sometimes decades. There are people who wish for an end to life every single day because their suffering is so great. If you've never experienced that or seen someone experience it first hand, then leave your ignorance to yourself.
I think it's fair to say that for the majority of suicide cases you are right or could be right, but I don't think it's always the case.
------------------------------------ Single female, age 21
My dearest Andrew,
It seems as if I have been spending all my life apologizing to you for things that happened whether they were my fault or not.
I am enclosing your pin because I want you to think of what you took from me every time you see it.
I don't want you to think I would kill myself over you because you're not worth any emotion at all. It is what you cost me that hurts and nothing can replace it.
-----------------------------------
I mean I obviously don't understand what this woman was going through, and I'm not going to lie I know very little on the subject of suicide. But I think it's reasonable to say, that judging from this suicide note alone, there was no deep meaning to it. I don't think it's right to assume everyone has thought this decision through with the respect it deserves. Some people are just irrational.
Eh that note suggests to me she could have been suffering from years of abuse from this man..?
It is not something one would decide on a whim, at least not someone of a sane mind...I'll be the first to admit ive contemplated and planned my own, this is after many years of shit, not being denied the last biscuit. Someone posted thats when "scientists" consider it a very real thing didnt they? once you've planned it. Lol, guess im fucked up ^^. Lifes alot better now anyway..i just wanted you to understand its not something you just "do" like making a sandwich.
Also, to that post mentioning suicide happens when pain outweighs ways to deal with pain, i think thats accurate, but its a slow and steady process not just, cross a line and wham im jumping off that cliff!
I understand people's views on empathy for those left behind as opposed to the deceased, but very often they arent just being self-centered assholes like you all make them out to be.
oftentimes ppl with dissociations (like borderline?) project their own problems on people who love them (just people they oftentimes see). so maybe just forgot to take her meds. we will never know.
as to the last part, from what i seem to know, ppl who kill themselves often are really alone. maybe theres the one friend who likes to talk about her problems but dont listen to yours, and thats most they get. but as soon as they are dead everybody acts like they would have been their best friends. those are the attention whores. "i got a d in my algebra test because xxx from parallelclass committed suicide and i always have to think about that".
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
To be fair, before i found my wife i wished i could live in a warzone, threat of death, no food all of that. Just with a family, friends or people who cared about me in anyway and didnt just treat me like shit on their shoe.
Honestly, people, humans in general crave "acceptance", love, that bond with others, being alone is terrible.
Of course people will be like "wtf? dat emokid" and not understand my way of thinking etc but as i said in my last post, its not something you just "do" its a hellalotta buildup for most people who even consider suicide properly.
Different people different things i guess, people can cope with situations better thne others
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
but anyways, sad to see so many young people there. The 60 year old with bronchitis I understand, even though I wish she'd have fought it out. But 13 years old? For "finding out?" I'm guessing homosexuality as it was severe enough to warrant suicide, but still, that was really ridiculous.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just people's perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
I wish there were more. There's few things more interesting than finding out what people have to say before dying. Especially when it's young people you can get a good perspective on how they perceive their problems in that certain moment.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
Notes like these humble me. Shame so many people feel like theres no other option, though to be fair sometimes there just isn't. I used to firmly believe suicide was totally selfish, but really it can be something that ends suffering, and years of pain.
**Also, to those who commit suicide over "first-world" problems, I feel less sympathy as many people have said, people live in much much much worse conditions and cling to life no matter how dire the circumstances.
EDIT: You can live in a first world country and still live in horrible horrible conditions, just want to make sure people don't get offended
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
That's so cliché.
You could say the same for every person doing any number of things.
Well, that is the main problem in today's society I believe. How would you explain suicidal people then, I am no zoologist or biologist expert, but I believe we are one of the only species who suicides ourselves. You can trace back their early childhood and all that psychologist stuff, but it all comes down to the ego, if they were people able to transcend from it they wouldn't be blaming their state on others. Some people try to repress stuff and build an internal wall, these people just go ahead and end the problem right away. Dying is not sad ,not living is.
suicide can be misunderstood as a sign of weakness, in fact, in some situations it's the bravest thing you can do. also you can't expect to understand such people and their motives if you lived a happy and peaceful life.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
For those that just don't get it. I suggest a listen, then a moment to reflect a possible existance like the following Schizophrenia Simulation.
Perspective is everything.. The first time I got to listen to something like that it reflected their challenges to me in a way I could relate. I think myself into blurted random statements at times, and I thought I was going nutz, nope not even close...yet.
EDIT: My ex-wife worked in a facility where they had similar professional versions of what I linked to train faculty members.
The one that was quite weird to me was the one about the college girl who tried to OD, but ended up being put in a hospital for a few weeks. It didn't seem like this girl actually committed suicide, because she had said at the end of the note that she appreciated everything a lot more, and actually enjoyed when people would come to her for help?
Just curious if someone could explain this to me? Like I said before, it doesn't seem like she committed suicide.
On April 17 2012 03:18 BioNova wrote: For those that just don't get it. I suggest a listen, then a moment to reflect a possible existance like the following Schizophrenia Simulation.
Perspective is everything.. The first time I got to listen to something like that it reflected their challenges to me in a way I could relate. I think myself into blurted random statements at times, and I thought I was going nutz, nope not even close...yet.
EDIT: My ex-wife worked in a facility where they had similar professional versions of what I linked to train faculty members.
holy shit dude that scared me please warn people next time. I closed it after 3 secs
On April 17 2012 03:18 BioNova wrote: For those that just don't get it. I suggest a listen, then a moment to reflect a possible existance like the following Schizophrenia Simulation.
Perspective is everything.. The first time I got to listen to something like that it reflected their challenges to me in a way I could relate. I think myself into blurted random statements at times, and I thought I was going nutz, nope not even close...yet.
EDIT: My ex-wife worked in a facility where they had similar professional versions of what I linked to train faculty members.
They hear that all day long? wow that's really scary
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
I never claimed to be anything but ignorant regarding this subject =) So thanks captain obvious.
people that have support systems (that they feel exist)
Could you elaborate on this point? Give an example, I don't really understand it.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let its stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs. And if you lost both legs, stop complaining - there is someone out there who doesn't have any limbs at all. And if you don't have any limbs, well, there's someone out there that has no sight or hearing. Let us keep going down the line, admitting that we can never complain about anything, because there is always some poor soul suffering more than ourselves.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't. The suffering of others is in fact completely independent and has no transvaluation upon your suffering.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
What I was saying is that emotions and your emotional well-being aren't "rational" at all, so there is no point in arguing that doing something isn't rational when it's mainly based on your emotions. For the same reason, it's pointless to say, "well you should just appreciate your life" because the simplest answer is, "fine, they can have it". It doesn't matter. Literally, it does not matter. Arguing material things to someone for whom those material things have absolutely no value again, is just a viewpoint of someone that's never been in that place emotionally. -----
And support systems, um. What I mean mostly is people who you can share your life with that impact it in a positive way. That's really broad. You might have lots of people in your life but that doesn't mean that they have any positive impact that you can feel. That doesn't mean you feel loved by them. That doesn't mean that you feel like you have any purpose or meaning to them, or that they can relate to you and help you, or that you have any positive place in their life either. Maybe that helps?
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't.
I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide.
Lately I've been reading a book on suicidology, named with oh so much finesse: "Suicidology". Problem is, I had to read it in a library, they don't lend it. It also was in magazine, so I had to ask one librarian for it, another processed it and it was brought to me by third - possibly an inside joke of Universe (so all 3 librarians knew what I was reading, I was one of 2 people there at the time).
Tragic as the subject might be, or maybe because of that... when one reads about a method of suicide by strangulation that involves a washing machine, or that among medical personel only anesthesiologists use exclusively injection as their method of choice (you might need to be "in the know" of medical status quo and/or slightly mental to find the latter apropriate) - I just couldn't help to giggle. And every time I did that I drawed looks from the librarians, and begun to write down the total number of losses on my part. 11 times -_-
On April 17 2012 03:11 Angel_ wrote: "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
Yeah... no...
Being rational actually has a lot to do with that In fact, most people who have commited suicide have been in a state of internal turmoil and in situation that made them prone to suicide, but did not do it and possibly would not have done it until they were inebrieted and the Rational lost to the Emotional.
Think of it like punching someone in a bar. It's not rational. But most people don't do it because they do not realize that, but because they lost control for an ever so important moment.
Which is also why though small amounts of alcohol can lower stress of cognitive dissonance in some difficult situations, it is inadvisable for people in state of that vulnerability to drink alcohol, as they can easily get fatally tipsy.
On April 17 2012 03:45 Cor_Malek wrote: Lately I've been reading a book on suicidology, named with oh so much finesse: "Suicidology". Problem is, I had to read it in a library, they don't lend it. It also was in magazine, so I had to ask one librarian for it, another processed it and it was brought to me by third - possibly an inside joke of Universe (so all 3 librarians knew what I was reading, I was one of 2 people there at the time).
Tragic as the subject might be, or maybe because of that... when one reads about a method of suicide by strangulation that involves a washing machine, or that among medical personel only anesthesiologists use exclusively injection as their method of choice (you might need to be "in the know" of medical status quo and/or slightly mental to find the latter apropriate) - I just couldn't help to giggle. And every time I did that I drawed looks from the librarians, and begun to write down the total number of losses on my part. 11 times -_-
On April 17 2012 03:11 Angel_ wrote: "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
Yeah... no...
Being rational actually has a lot to do with that In fact, most people who have commited suicide have been in a state of internal turmoil and in situation that made them prone to suicide, but did not do it and possibly would not have done it until they were inebrieted and the Rational lost to the Emotional.
Think of it like punching someone in a bar. It's not rational. But most people don't do it because they do not realize that, but because they lost control for an ever so important moment.
Which is also why though small amounts of alcohol can lower stress of cognitive dissonance in some difficult situations, it is inadvisable for people in state of that vulnerability to drink alcohol, as they can easily get fatally tipsy.
Cheers!
you and i aren't talking about the same thing really. =\ i understand your point, but it's not strictly related to what I was saying if you look at the post I was responding to.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
Ahh I get it now! Money = Happiness! I can live the rest of my life now without fear or regret! THANKS /end sarcasm
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
Ahh I get it now! Money = Happiness! I can live the rest of my life now without fear or regret! THANKS /end sarcasm
On April 17 2012 03:45 Cor_Malek wrote: Lately I've been reading a book on suicidology, named with oh so much finesse: "Suicidology". Problem is, I had to read it in a library, they don't lend it. It also was in magazine, so I had to ask one librarian for it, another processed it and it was brought to me by third - possibly an inside joke of Universe (so all 3 librarians knew what I was reading, I was one of 2 people there at the time).
Tragic as the subject might be, or maybe because of that... when one reads about a method of suicide by strangulation that involves a washing machine, or that among medical personel only anesthesiologists use exclusively injection as their method of choice (you might need to be "in the know" of medical status quo and/or slightly mental to find the latter apropriate) - I just couldn't help to giggle. And every time I did that I drawed looks from the librarians, and begun to write down the total number of losses on my part. 11 times -_-
On April 17 2012 03:11 Angel_ wrote: "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
Yeah... no...
Being rational actually has a lot to do with that In fact, most people who have commited suicide have been in a state of internal turmoil and in situation that made them prone to suicide, but did not do it and possibly would not have done it until they were inebrieted and the Rational lost to the Emotional.
Think of it like punching someone in a bar. It's not rational. But most people don't do it because they do not realize that, but because they lost control for an ever so important moment.
Which is also why though small amounts of alcohol can lower stress of cognitive dissonance in some difficult situations, it is inadvisable for people in state of that vulnerability to drink alcohol, as they can easily get fatally tipsy.
Cheers!
Im sure you can be rational and commit suicide, given that we define rational as someone who is making a "cost-benefit analysis" (outweighting benefits against costs). However the analysis will always be completely subjective, and hence one could make a rational decision that others would regard as irraitonal. But then again, even though other people might think they made the wrong decision, they have no clue, as they do not understand the "costs" of living for other people. Maybe some people just hates everyday of their life, and see few advantages to living.
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
He could have some form of psychosis, you're a sick fucker.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't.
I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide.
Also you might want to calm a bit.
It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic. I only wish that we can someday live in a world where such appeals are immediately dismissed without question, because of how completely absurd they are.
People are just so different and no one really knows how anyone else feels. Unbearable pain to one person could just be a minor ache to another. Same thing goes with dealing with situations. My ex-girlfriend has a hard time separating other peoples misfortune from her own. She would take deaths in other peoples families to heart and be depressed over them. I on the other hand have no problem with that. I can feel sorry for a friends loss, but I wont lose sleep over it. I on the other hand have a real problem with wanting to control ever facet of my life perfectly. If a girl that I really cared about and I break up (which has happened to 2 pretty long term girlfriends) I dwell on what I could have done to prevent that from happening. I feel like I did something wrong and that I need to fix it. This makes it hard for me to get over a girlfriend. My ex on the other hand can move on and convince herself that things will eventually get better and life will go on. This is a good example of how different people (possibly extroverted and introverted) could react to a situation the way that they do. And also why others can't quite understand what why.
my cousin committed suicide yesterday, and to be honest, i'm a little pissed. part of me is saying: "i don't give a shit how much pain you were in, suck it up!" but then the other part of me is just sad that he's gone. it feels wrong to think about the dead in a bad way, but i can't help but feel like he really screwed over his siblings.
fucking suicide is the fucking devil. i just want to see my cousin again. i hate funerals so goddamn much.
On April 17 2012 03:58 sc2superfan101 wrote: my cousin committed suicide yesterday, and to be honest, i'm a little pissed. part of me is saying: "i don't give a shit how much pain you were in, suck it up!" but then the other part of me is just sad that he's gone. it feels wrong to think about the dead in a bad way, but i can't help but feel like he really screwed over his siblings.
fucking suicide is the fucking devil. i just want to see my cousin again. i hate funerals so goddamn much.
I'm so sorry :[ My thoughts go out to you and everyone that knew him :[
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't.
I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide.
Also you might want to calm a bit.
It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic.
Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person.
Also, it's not like I'm insensitive to the issue but if you're looking for a solution then you obviously have to make some valued/weighed decisions. By your tone you make it seem like I've never, in my own private time, evaluated the views of others.
On April 16 2012 23:42 Thorakh wrote: [quote]It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't.
I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide.
Also you might want to calm a bit.
It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic.
Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person.
Well, there's many things one can do to help combat suicidal feelings (none of which include telling them to get over it b/c it's not that bad). Cognitive behavioral therapy, emotional support, anti-depressants, etc.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't.
I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide.
Also you might want to calm a bit.
It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic. I only wish that we can someday live in a world where such appeals are immediately dismissed without question, because of how completely absurd they are.
I think "pathetic" is going too far, but I do agree that trying to compare one person's pains to another's would be a bad method (unless it was an attempt at commiseration through comparison, not guilt through contrast).
I wish we could see what the suicidologist had to say after compiling this list, maybe if he had any sort of advice.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
They are both illnesses, both can be terminal, survival in both is affected by genetics, environment, medical care, family support. Your survival rates for cancer depend on how you approach the illness. So following your logic people who were severely depressed by being diagnosed with cancer are weak as those who were not so depressed have higher survival rates. In reality they are of course not in control of that, and the same is the case with many of those committing suicide. Those that do not cope with their illness whether cancer or mental illness are in general no more guilty of the outcome than the ones that do. You should realize that the difference between mental and "normal" illnesses is largely superficial.
And you have low expectations for miracle. People survive cancer all the time and die from it also all the time.
On April 17 2012 01:25 Jojo131 wrote: [quote] If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't.
I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide.
Also you might want to calm a bit.
It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic.
Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person.
Well, there's many things one can do to help combat suicidal feelings (none of which include telling them to get over it b/c it's not that bad). Cognitive behavioral therapy, emotional support, anti-depressants, etc.
That's a great idea, now let's find a way to pay for it.
On April 16 2012 23:42 Thorakh wrote: [quote]It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't.
I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide.
Also you might want to calm a bit.
It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic.
Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person.
Also, it's not like I'm insensitive to the issue but if you're looking for a solution then you obviously have to make some valued/weighed decisions. By your tone you make it seem like I've never, in my own private time, evaluated the views of others.
A hug and an "I care, and I'll listen, no matter what" tends to work pretty well--or at least a hell of a lot better than a "suck it up, it could be worse! Your pain is invalid!"
Being a victim of bipolar depression myself - I can only say that the ones who seem worse to me is not the ones who takes their own lives. Not even the ones considering it. It's the ones judging them for it.
If I chose to not live anymore - I would be happy to get treatment and see if anything could help (as I am actually going to psychiatrist now with my depression), but if nothing could ever make me feel good - who are you to judge my decission? I've had depression for more than a year now - it's getting better, but I still have horrible days. Sometimes I really don't feel great about anything. But having a girlfriend (through nearly 7 years), a brother, both my parents, family and friends who'd be sorry for losing me - and they've all been so supportive, I don't think I would do it. But even if I did. I would rather have they understood me than felt that I "abandoned" them.
Please, don't judge people who're being self-destructive. It's not good - but it's natural and can really help you realize what's important to you.
Throughout my entire treatment, I've discovered things that used to be sooo important to me now means next to nothing. I've been more open to people, open to ideas and open to myself. While I've had to protect myself, I've actually unlocked a whole new side of me. I really hope people who haven't suffered from depression (or anything like it) won't get it. But please don't judge. You have no idea what we're going through or how our minds work.
On April 17 2012 01:25 Jojo131 wrote: [quote] If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't.
I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide.
Also you might want to calm a bit.
It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic.
Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person.
Also, it's not like I'm insensitive to the issue but if you're looking for a solution then you obviously have to make some valued/weighed decisions. By your tone you make it seem like I've never, in my own private time, evaluated the views of others.
A hug and an "I care, and I'll listen, no matter what" tends to work pretty well--or at least a hell of a lot better than a "suck it up, it could be worse! Your pain is invalid!"
While I agree that would be ideal, you're talking about someone else's time (and care) that may not be available for every unhappy person in the world.
On April 17 2012 01:41 mcc wrote: [quote] Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't.
I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide.
Also you might want to calm a bit.
It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic.
Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person.
Also, it's not like I'm insensitive to the issue but if you're looking for a solution then you obviously have to make some valued/weighed decisions. By your tone you make it seem like I've never, in my own private time, evaluated the views of others.
A hug and an "I care, and I'll listen, no matter what" tends to work pretty well--or at least a hell of a lot better than a "suck it up, it could be worse! Your pain is invalid!"
While I agree that would be ideal, you're talking about someone else's time (and care) that may not be available for every unhappy person in the world.
Nor is everyone's time there to tell them to suck it up--point being, if you're showing enough interest in someone to tell them to suck it up, you can probably spare the five seconds to give them a hug and a reminder that someone out there does care.
Or you can just look the other way, if you can spare the time for either--and I mean that with no sarcasm or disdain. Point being, if you're going to show interest in someone, don't use that effort to invalidate their pains.
On April 17 2012 01:48 Jojo131 wrote: [quote] Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't.
I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide.
Also you might want to calm a bit.
It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic.
Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person.
Also, it's not like I'm insensitive to the issue but if you're looking for a solution then you obviously have to make some valued/weighed decisions. By your tone you make it seem like I've never, in my own private time, evaluated the views of others.
A hug and an "I care, and I'll listen, no matter what" tends to work pretty well--or at least a hell of a lot better than a "suck it up, it could be worse! Your pain is invalid!"
While I agree that would be ideal, you're talking about someone else's time (and care) that may not be available for every unhappy person in the world.
Nor is everyone's time there to tell them to suck it up--point being, if you're showing enough interest in someone to tell them to suck it up, you can probably spare the five seconds to give them a hug and a reminder that someone out there does care.
Or you can just look the other way, if you can spare the time for either--and I mean that with no sarcasm or disdain. Point being, if you're going to show interest in someone, don't use that effort to invalidate their pains.
I was suggesting more of a change in general perspective/outlook for society as a whole, rather than to actually walk up to someone. (which is why I considered it different from the hug/etc)
Again, you could say then that the real ideal situation would be that everyone had the outlook of "everybody loves and supports you", but I find that it isn't very true ("everybody"?) and sounds like something that would be taken for granted. Thats me though.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
But severity of mental illness has nothing to do with conditions someone lives in. They do not kill themselves because they rationally (but incorrectly) analyzed their lives suck. Their lives suck, no matter what material surplus they have. Rationality has nothing to do with it. There is no rational reason to live, all of them are emotional. If your brain chemistry is causing you emotional problems, there is no amount of rationality that will help you. Your original point was general. There are suicide cases where there is a lot to criticize, but in many there is not.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
Ahh I get it now! Money = Happiness! I can live the rest of my life now without fear or regret! THANKS /end sarcasm
It certainly helps.
All I have to do to know you are wrong is turn my head slightly to the right and look at the Kurt Cobain poster on my wall.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
And it is ignorant to assume that the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality. There is disconnect between reality and their perception of it, that is why it is mental illness. They feel shitty because their brain makes them so, there is no rational contemplation of circumstances. And do not believe for a second anyone in Philippines would want the whole package, because the whole package means suicide.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
And it is ignorant to assume that the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality. There is disconnect between reality and their perception of it, that is why it is mental illness. They feel shitty because their brain makes them so, there is no rational contemplation of circumstances. And do not believe for a second anyone in Philippines would want the whole package, because the whole package means suicide.
Do you really mean to suggest that reality has no barring on our mental state? None? Its also 3:44am, enough TOK for me, I'm going to bed.
On April 17 2012 01:41 mcc wrote: [quote] Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't.
I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide.
Also you might want to calm a bit.
It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic.
Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person.
Also, it's not like I'm insensitive to the issue but if you're looking for a solution then you obviously have to make some valued/weighed decisions. By your tone you make it seem like I've never, in my own private time, evaluated the views of others.
A hug and an "I care, and I'll listen, no matter what" tends to work pretty well--or at least a hell of a lot better than a "suck it up, it could be worse! Your pain is invalid!"
While I agree that would be ideal, you're talking about someone else's time (and care) that may not be available for every unhappy person in the world.
They are not unhappy. That is completely understating it.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
And it is ignorant to assume that the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality. There is disconnect between reality and their perception of it, that is why it is mental illness. They feel shitty because their brain makes them so, there is no rational contemplation of circumstances. And do not believe for a second anyone in Philippines would want the whole package, because the whole package means suicide.
Do you really mean to suggest that reality has no barring on our mental state? None? Its also 3:44am, enough TOK for me, I'm going to bed.
That was exaggeration, depends on their condition, it is a continuous spectrum. In some cases it is basically non-existent.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
And it is ignorant to assume that the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality. There is disconnect between reality and their perception of it, that is why it is mental illness. They feel shitty because their brain makes them so, there is no rational contemplation of circumstances. And do not believe for a second anyone in Philippines would want the whole package, because the whole package means suicide.
go talk to a torture or rape victim or someone whos child/spouse/whatever got brutally murdered, someone who's lost everything financially and as a result lost everyone who they thought loved them, someone who has lost all of their dignity and pride battling cancer, and tell them that their emotions had nothing to do with their reality, it was just their perception of reality that was flawed. I would LOVE to see what their response would be.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
And it is ignorant to assume that the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality. There is disconnect between reality and their perception of it, that is why it is mental illness. They feel shitty because their brain makes them so, there is no rational contemplation of circumstances. And do not believe for a second anyone in Philippines would want the whole package, because the whole package means suicide.
go talk to a torture or rape victim or someone whos child/spouse/whatever got brutally murdered, someone who's lost everything financially and as a result lost everyone who they thought loved them, someone who has lost all of their dignity and pride battling cancer, and tell them that their emotions had nothing to do with their reality, it was just their perception of reality that was flawed, I would LOVE to see what their response would be.
What are you talking about ? I am talking about people committing suicide due to mental illness, none of the cases you mention falls into that category.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
And it is ignorant to assume that the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality. There is disconnect between reality and their perception of it, that is why it is mental illness. They feel shitty because their brain makes them so, there is no rational contemplation of circumstances. And do not believe for a second anyone in Philippines would want the whole package, because the whole package means suicide.
go talk to a torture or rape victim or someone whos child/spouse/whatever got brutally murdered, someone who's lost everything financially and as a result lost everyone who they thought loved them, someone who has lost all of their dignity and pride battling cancer, and tell them that their emotions had nothing to do with their reality, it was just their perception of reality that was flawed, I would LOVE to see what their response would be.
What are you talking about ? I am talking about people committing suicide due to mental illness, none of the cases you mention falls into that category.
Couldn't PTSD resulting from one of those situations be considered a mental illness?
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
And it is ignorant to assume that the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality. There is disconnect between reality and their perception of it, that is why it is mental illness. They feel shitty because their brain makes them so, there is no rational contemplation of circumstances. And do not believe for a second anyone in Philippines would want the whole package, because the whole package means suicide.
go talk to a torture or rape victim or someone whos child/spouse/whatever got brutally murdered, someone who's lost everything financially and as a result lost everyone who they thought loved them, someone who has lost all of their dignity and pride battling cancer, and tell them that their emotions had nothing to do with their reality, it was just their perception of reality that was flawed, I would LOVE to see what their response would be.
What are you talking about ? I am talking about people committing suicide due to mental illness, none of the cases you mention falls into that category.
my mistake, I should've actually read the nested quotes... In response to those, "relatively comfortable life" is completely subjective. I've seen homeless people in complete poverty who are happy as can be, happiness can't just be measured by material objects such as food/clothing/shelter. People can have everything in the world going for them and still feel like they have nothing, obviously the situation is more than a simple issue of what's logical and what isn't.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
And it is ignorant to assume that the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality. There is disconnect between reality and their perception of it, that is why it is mental illness. They feel shitty because their brain makes them so, there is no rational contemplation of circumstances. And do not believe for a second anyone in Philippines would want the whole package, because the whole package means suicide.
go talk to a torture or rape victim or someone whos child/spouse/whatever got brutally murdered, someone who's lost everything financially and as a result lost everyone who they thought loved them, someone who has lost all of their dignity and pride battling cancer, and tell them that their emotions had nothing to do with their reality, it was just their perception of reality that was flawed. I would LOVE to see what their response would be.
"wrong to assume the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality" does not mean "none have to do with external factors".
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
And it is ignorant to assume that the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality. There is disconnect between reality and their perception of it, that is why it is mental illness. They feel shitty because their brain makes them so, there is no rational contemplation of circumstances. And do not believe for a second anyone in Philippines would want the whole package, because the whole package means suicide.
go talk to a torture or rape victim or someone whos child/spouse/whatever got brutally murdered, someone who's lost everything financially and as a result lost everyone who they thought loved them, someone who has lost all of their dignity and pride battling cancer, and tell them that their emotions had nothing to do with their reality, it was just their perception of reality that was flawed, I would LOVE to see what their response would be.
What are you talking about ? I am talking about people committing suicide due to mental illness, none of the cases you mention falls into that category.
Let me take a wild guess here. You actually don't have any idea what a mental illness is and which types of these are out there, do you? Or why would you just disregard the numerous disorders in which the patient clearly is connected to reality and responds to it?
On April 17 2012 03:45 Cor_Malek wrote: Lately I've been reading a book on suicidology, named with oh so much finesse: "Suicidology". Problem is, I had to read it in a library, they don't lend it. It also was in magazine, so I had to ask one librarian for it, another processed it and it was brought to me by third - possibly an inside joke of Universe (so all 3 librarians knew what I was reading, I was one of 2 people there at the time).
Tragic as the subject might be, or maybe because of that... when one reads about a method of suicide by strangulation that involves a washing machine, or that among medical personel only anesthesiologists use exclusively injection as their method of choice (you might need to be "in the know" of medical status quo and/or slightly mental to find the latter apropriate) - I just couldn't help to giggle. And every time I did that I drawed looks from the librarians, and begun to write down the total number of losses on my part. 11 times -_-
On April 17 2012 03:11 Angel_ wrote: "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
Yeah... no...
Being rational actually has a lot to do with that In fact, most people who have commited suicide have been in a state of internal turmoil and in situation that made them prone to suicide, but did not do it and possibly would not have done it until they were inebrieted and the Rational lost to the Emotional.
Think of it like punching someone in a bar. It's not rational. But most people don't do it because they do not realize that, but because they lost control for an ever so important moment.
Which is also why though small amounts of alcohol can lower stress of cognitive dissonance in some difficult situations, it is inadvisable for people in state of that vulnerability to drink alcohol, as they can easily get fatally tipsy.
Cheers!
you and i aren't talking about the same thing really. =\ i understand your point, but it's not strictly related to what I was saying if you look at the post I was responding to.
Yeah, knowing the subject I considered the angle you're taking there, the comment was more for others benefit.
On April 16 2012 23:42 Thorakh wrote: [quote]It's so easy for us to say that, but we've never experienced a situation in which we were completely lost and in the dark.
And who are you to say that someone is living a 'comfortable' life? You might have all the money in the world, loving wife/husband and kids and still be emotionally broken.
It's all about how you feel from the inside. I find this attitude of bashing suicide disgusting, to say the least.
If you have the money to eat 3 square meals a day, sleep in a decent bed, not have to worry about someone killing you in your sleep, or any combination of the three, there are going to be people wishing they had your life. Mental illness and emotional pains aren't exclusive to anyone either, yet there are people who deal with any combination of the above and still keep going.
Suddenly life isn't so bad?
Yes there are people who deal with them and there are those who do not deal with it. And rarely is the difference in some strength of character or something. There is nothing free about decision to kill yourself or not in a lot of cases. All of that is nicely predetermined by the condition they are suffering from and their brains. The only thing that can change how it will end is outside pressure : drugs, other people's influence, ... . Are you also going to say about those who die of cancer that they are weak, because there are others that did not die from the same cancer ?
Terminal illness like cancer =/= Emotional mental illness, why did you even compare the two? If someone didn't die of a certain cancer, I'd call that a miracle.
Except they really are of similar severities, it's just peoples perception of depression is often very different to physical diseases which are more easily tangible. There's often a suggestion that people should just "get over it" or they're being lazy or something like that, but that's not how depression works.
While I dont disagree with that notion, there are also people who commit suicide out of general unhappiness with what they have without consideration of people who live in worse conditions. That was my main/initial point for this topic, and why I still think there is room to criticize some suicide cases.
This is the most moronic argument I have ever come across in the discussion of suicide. And yet it keeps popping up again and again, almost as if it wishes to let it's stupidity become more well known. An analogy: If you lose a leg, you ought not to complain, because there are people in the world that have lost both legs.
While it may be comforting to you that there is always someone else in the world suffering more than you are, that in itself does not take away from any of the suffering you experience. This is the grand mistake that you continue to make over and over again. Some sort of weird presumption that thinking about others who suffer more than you somehow magically can decrease your own suffering. It doesn't.
I dont think I was very clear. The point is not to decrease one's suffering, or to say that one should not complain. It is to give them a reason to keep living and to know that there are people worse off that you can help (purpose?). That is a way of how you prevent suicide.
Also you might want to calm a bit.
It's a highly ineffective way at preventing suicide, if that was your goal. All it tends to do is piss people off, because what you're essentially doing is downplaying the person's pain by telling them it's not that bad (look at other people! they're okay) without actually addressing their pain. It's pretentious, insensitive, and quite frankly pathetic.
Well, what would be your alternative? Unless you want to babysit every unhappy person.\
Hah, wouldn't you be surprised if you knew views of people specializing in the field. tl:dr - that is exactly what they reccomend Surveilance based on inventories (it's just several items, easy to administer) and biochemical indicators (cholesterol levels, neutrotransmittal disfunctions, hormone levels (5-HT as well as stipule-hypothalamus-adrenal).
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
And it is ignorant to assume that the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality. There is disconnect between reality and their perception of it, that is why it is mental illness. They feel shitty because their brain makes them so, there is no rational contemplation of circumstances. And do not believe for a second anyone in Philippines would want the whole package, because the whole package means suicide.
go talk to a torture or rape victim or someone whos child/spouse/whatever got brutally murdered, someone who's lost everything financially and as a result lost everyone who they thought loved them, someone who has lost all of their dignity and pride battling cancer, and tell them that their emotions had nothing to do with their reality, it was just their perception of reality that was flawed. I would LOVE to see what their response would be.
Chill mate. Just because some people do have real reasons for commiting suicide doesn;t mean the two are strongly interconnected. Those that kill themselves as teenagers cuz their gf left them think their reason is good enough. And there's plenty of people who have lived through all you listed and more without ever considering suicide (entire generations in fact).
Frankly, I really reccomend reading a book on this subject - there's a lot of counter intuitive things in this field, even for someone who already has rudimentary knowledge of psychology, much more for people who go by the "common sense".
On April 17 2012 03:58 sc2superfan101 wrote: my cousin committed suicide yesterday, and to be honest, i'm a little pissed. part of me is saying: "i don't give a shit how much pain you were in, suck it up!" but then the other part of me is just sad that he's gone. it feels wrong to think about the dead in a bad way, but i can't help but feel like he really screwed over his siblings.
fucking suicide is the fucking devil. i just want to see my cousin again. i hate funerals so goddamn much.
Know what you feel man, it's pretty much the same I felt/thought at and after my uncle funeral. 10 years in, and I'm still pissed whenever I think about it.
An interesting insight into a topic that is generally not that openly discussed. I didn't understand the woman leaving her father $1, is that possibly an inside joke between herself and her father or a token gift of remembrance or am I missing something?
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
And it is ignorant to assume that the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality. There is disconnect between reality and their perception of it, that is why it is mental illness. They feel shitty because their brain makes them so, there is no rational contemplation of circumstances. And do not believe for a second anyone in Philippines would want the whole package, because the whole package means suicide.
go talk to a torture or rape victim or someone whos child/spouse/whatever got brutally murdered, someone who's lost everything financially and as a result lost everyone who they thought loved them, someone who has lost all of their dignity and pride battling cancer, and tell them that their emotions had nothing to do with their reality, it was just their perception of reality that was flawed, I would LOVE to see what their response would be.
What are you talking about ? I am talking about people committing suicide due to mental illness, none of the cases you mention falls into that category.
my mistake, I should've actually read the nested quotes... In response to those, "relatively comfortable life" is completely subjective. I've seen homeless people in complete poverty who are happy as can be, happiness can't just be measured by material objects such as food/clothing/shelter. People can have everything in the world going for them and still feel like they have nothing, obviously the situation is more than a simple issue of what's logical and what isn't.
Ok I've been following this debate for quite a while now. Mainly because I've been trying to answer a question I've always had floating around in the back of my mind. Why do people who have access to the necessary things for survival (food water shelter etc) commit suicide?
Answer; different strokes for different folks.
This entire topic is subjective. It takes a certain type of person/situation to want to die. Trying to define any of it is starting to seem a daunting task. For as we can see in the suicide notes, the reasons or causes of suicide vary MASSIVELY.
So, I'm happy to be able to lay this question down to rest. At least in my mind.
Love teamliquid! There's so many intelligent people here and discussions rarely downgrade to the childish drivel seen elsewhere on the internet! There is still hope for mankind! =)
On April 17 2012 05:49 Maxtor wrote: An interesting insight into a topic that is generally not that openly discussed. I didn't understand the woman leaving her father $1, is that possibly an inside joke between herself and her father or a token gift of remembrance or am I missing something?
My first guess is it was a sarcastic gift.
"Because of a growing conviction that a hereditary insanity is manifesting itself beyond my control, I am taking this way out -- before mere nuisance attacks and rages against others assume a more dangerous form."
Could the father have abused her in some ways and so she's repaying him for all he's done for her with $1? The fact that she only mentiones him at the very end could indicate that as well. I guess we'll never know, could be pretty much anything.
I often tell myself that even if i want to kill myself so badly, i just can't because i couldn't leave this world without writing something. The only "problem" is that i have no idea how to puts the words and what i want to say the most for the last words. Everytime i think about it. I'm still hesistating, will it be a book, a biography, a letter (to who?), a simple sentence, a word, a quick note, something funny, something true, something weird, ... So that's kinda what keeps me alive really.
On April 16 2012 23:02 Kiichol wrote: I can understand why people with serious medical illnesses or handicaps could want to commit suicide or die. I can understand why people who have to struggle immensely every day just to get food and shelter could wish to die. I can understand why old people who may have just had enough of life and care not for waiting for death to take them wish to die.
But I cannot for the life of me understand people who commit suicide when they live relatively comfortable lives and still have decades to live for. No amount of emotional turmoil should lead one to thinking death is an option. It's not rational thinking. No one knows what happens when you die (despite what religious institutions may tell you). The only thing we do know is that death is eternal. So live now, while you still can. What have you got to lose? Death will find you eventually. Why rush it?
When babies aren't loved they spontaneously die. Adolescents and young adults are no different. In general, people that have support systems (that they feel exist), and people that have anything that loves them (that they feel loves them) don't kill themselves. "Rational" doesn't remotely factor in to anything. And frankly, the idea that emotional turmoil can't be bad enough that someone could consider death is just...ignorant, really.
You're not taking the whole argument into consideration. Rational does factor into things because there are other people who dont even have the bare necessities that another person considering suicide may have. Therefore I would argue that it is ignorant and even disrespectful to not appreciate your "crappy" life when someone else (for example here in the Philippines) would love to have it in exchange for their's.
And it is ignorant to assume that the crappiness they feel has anything to do with external reality. There is disconnect between reality and their perception of it, that is why it is mental illness. They feel shitty because their brain makes them so, there is no rational contemplation of circumstances. And do not believe for a second anyone in Philippines would want the whole package, because the whole package means suicide.
go talk to a torture or rape victim or someone whos child/spouse/whatever got brutally murdered, someone who's lost everything financially and as a result lost everyone who they thought loved them, someone who has lost all of their dignity and pride battling cancer, and tell them that their emotions had nothing to do with their reality, it was just their perception of reality that was flawed, I would LOVE to see what their response would be.
What are you talking about ? I am talking about people committing suicide due to mental illness, none of the cases you mention falls into that category.
Let me take a wild guess here. You actually don't have any idea what a mental illness is and which types of these are out there, do you? Or why would you just disregard the numerous disorders in which the patient clearly is connected to reality and responds to it?
I will just copy my answer to the original poster : "That was exaggeration, depends on their condition, it is a continuous spectrum. In some cases it is basically non-existent.".
But more precisely. Read my discussion with that poster. Then come back. From the context it will hopefully be clear that I was talking about how the factual reality of their material situation (as he was arguing that people who commit suicides are weak because they are so rich compared to poor people elsewhere in the world) has nothing to do with their emotional state. And what they feel is not related to how well off they are as their emotional state is not rational analysis of their material situation. Earlier in the thread I actually said that the thing that can change the outcome (suicide) are drugs, friends, family, ... So I think from that it should be clear what I meant.
To reiterate, the person I was responding to made general statements that were wrong. To "disprove" general statement you need just few counterexamples. So I used mentally ill people who commit suicide and pointed out that on that (rather large) subset of suicidal people he is wrong.
On April 17 2012 06:09 Nyarly wrote: I often tell myself that even if i want to kill myself so badly, i just can't because i couldn't leave this world without writing something. The only "problem" is that i have no idea how to puts the words and what i want to say the most for the last words. Everytime i think about it. I'm still hesistating, will it be a book, a biography, a letter (to who?), a simple sentence, a word, a quick note, something funny, something true, something weird, ... So that's kinda what keeps me alive really.
Now i don't know if i should read this link xD
That's why you talk with someone who is a professional in the field who is trained to help you with any suicidal feelings. There is a neurological reason for feelings like crap and often it can be remedied through cognitive therapy or specialized medicine. There are a ton of options for help...the real issue shouldn't be about what to write to leave when you're gone. You should find help so that you can keep going and write about the goodness of life. Everyone has extended periods of extreme lows, even years of it...trust me. Finding a way to enjoy life while you have it is important. If you are really feeling that way you NEED to tell someone who can help you find a solution.
Honestly, now that I'm done reading some of those notes. I wish I never found this thread........ So sad. Whether u are pro/anti suicide (can there be a pro suicide argument ? lol) This is still a human being much like you and me. With sentient thought, emotions, and feelings. I've had some pretty dark times in my life, and maybe I'm just a pussy when it comes down to it. But never have I entertained the idea of suicide. To quote the great Tyrion Lannister Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities.
It's crazy to read this stuff, I'm glad TL was mature enough not to flame this or close it. sad reads though.
Fall quarter I called Suicide Prevention. I'd called them before and the people were nice, but this time the woman acted a little indignant. "Why the hell do you want to do something like that?" she asked. We talked until she said she had other phone calls. But she made me promise I wouldn't try it without calling back first. I had a bottle of Coricidin from a wisdom tooth operation. I'd been thinking about it for a month off and on. Much later that night I took ten Coricidin and went to bed. I woke up in the morning feeling really rotten -- weepy, groggy. I could hardly move I thought I was going to die any minute. My roommate came home and got a friend to drive me to the school infirmary, where they gave me something that made me sick to my stomach. The doctor who gave it to me calmed me down. She said it happens to a lot of people, the pills wouldn't hurt me. I felt tingly, like I might pass out any minute.
I was immediately taken in a wheelchair to the psychiatrist's office. I talked to him about five minutes. He kept yelling ta me about why did I take the pills, why didn't I do this or that. I remember thinking, boy this man is a real jerk. I told him I didn't want to see him any more. He said, "That's fine," and put me in a locked room with bars on the windows. I couldn't make phone calls. I felt humiliated, which made me angry. I'm not crazy. I'm not weird. I don't want people to look at me like I'm nuts. I'm not some nutty kid who tried to knock herself off. I was most angry at being stuck in that room. I expected to be put in a straitjacket any minute. I complained until they moved me a pretty room and let me make phone calls.
I was there about two weeks. My psychiatrist kept harping at me about school -- was I going to stay in or drop out? I saw him ten minutes a day. The other patients and one orderly helped me a lot more than he did. I just wanted to find a place where I could be alone and think about things. I left feeling like not much had been accomplished, except letting me know that I didn't want to attempt it again. No -- I feel like I've become a lot more sensitive to people. I don't look at their problems as trivial any more. I almost like it when my friends come to me with problems. I feel like I can help now. I still haven't told the two people I was most angry at -- my father and my boyfriend -- why I was in the hospital.
This one got me the deepest, in my opinion it was an overworked stressed student who just needed council but got some arrogant fuck who knows nothing on the subject of mental health and how to treat it... Barbaric fuck, it's like the dark ages when you read about idiots like these who if anything forced the hand to take it's own life from this girl.
On April 17 2012 06:09 Nyarly wrote: I often tell myself that even if i want to kill myself so badly, i just can't because i couldn't leave this world without writing something. The only "problem" is that i have no idea how to puts the words and what i want to say the most for the last words. Everytime i think about it. I'm still hesistating, will it be a book, a biography, a letter (to who?), a simple sentence, a word, a quick note, something funny, something true, something weird, ... So that's kinda what keeps me alive really.
Now i don't know if i should read this link xD
That's why you talk with someone who is a professional in the field who is trained to help you with any suicidal feelings. There is a neurological reason for feelings like crap and often it can be remedied through cognitive therapy or specialized medicine. There are a ton of options for help...the real issue shouldn't be about what to write to leave when you're gone. You should find help so that you can keep going and write about the goodness of life. Everyone has extended periods of extreme lows, even years of it...trust me. Finding a way to enjoy life while you have it is important. If you are really feeling that way you NEED to tell someone who can help you find a solution.
Oh it's not always that simple.. I read the link, there are a lot of people that do it because they're angry at someone or something, i don't think it's a good enough reason. But I'm seriously sick and i know it. Having said 10% of what i think to someone once, she asked me if i wanted to be followed closely by an hospital. I didn't agree. Now i know that if i see someone again and tell him everything, he won't ask but order me to be sent away in a mental hospital. I won't spend the rest of my life in a cell for everybody's safety. So i'm just waiting to find the way to put the words on the paper
On April 17 2012 06:29 Arkless wrote: Honestly, now that I'm done reading some of those notes. I wish I never found this thread........ So sad. Whether u are pro/anti suicide (can there be a pro suicide argument ? lol) This is still a human being much like you and me. With sentient thought, emotions, and feelings. I've had some pretty dark times in my life, and maybe I'm just a pussy when it comes down to it. But never have I entertained the idea of suicide. To quote the great Tyrion Lannister Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities.
Trust me, you haven't experienced depression like a lot of these people have. Everyone who talks about how suicide is irrational and all of that just clearly hasn't been seriously depressed like these people. Nothing in the world seems more rational than suicide to a person whose seriously depressed. Why continue in a life when its just negative compounded with more negative? Surely it COULD get better, but the chances usually aren't high enough to warrant the amount of pain and suffering they deal with daily. Once someone disconnects themselves with the idea of them hurting any friends/family with their own death, that's when nothing is left to stand in the way.
That's a bit perturbing Nyarly. I hope you reach some kind of peace of mind that doesn't involve any harm to your person or anyone you know. Without professional help that can be very difficult, but I won't go so far to say its impossible, so best of luck to you.
On April 17 2012 06:29 Arkless wrote: Honestly, now that I'm done reading some of those notes. I wish I never found this thread........ So sad. Whether u are pro/anti suicide (can there be a pro suicide argument ? lol) This is still a human being much like you and me. With sentient thought, emotions, and feelings. I've had some pretty dark times in my life, and maybe I'm just a pussy when it comes down to it. But never have I entertained the idea of suicide. To quote the great Tyrion Lannister Death is so terribly final, while life is full of possibilities.
Trust me, you haven't experienced depression like a lot of these people have. Everyone who talks about how suicide is irrational and all of that just clearly hasn't been seriously depressed like these people. Nothing in the world seems more rational than suicide to a person whose seriously depressed. Why continue in a life when its just negative compounded with more negative? Surely it COULD get better, but the chances usually aren't high enough to warrant the amount of pain and suffering they deal with daily. Once someone disconnects themselves with the idea of them hurting any friends/family with their own death, that's when nothing is left to stand in the way.
Straight-forward major depression isn't the only road to suicide, and many times it can be quite the irrational thought process. Not to say you are entirely wrong, but for many whatever "reasoning" remains is extremely warped by a completely loss of sanity, at which point there is very little reason to their actions.
one of my friends committed suicide about 2 months ago, he didn't leave a note or anything. it really sucks because sometimes friends/family just want to know why they did it..
I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
On April 17 2012 07:20 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
No offense but reading that I don't think you have a very good grasp of what bipolar disorder is.
Fall quarter I called Suicide Prevention. I'd called them before and the people were nice, but this time the woman acted a little indignant. "Why the hell do you want to do something like that?" she asked. We talked until she said she had other phone calls. But she made me promise I wouldn't try it without calling back first. I had a bottle of Coricidin from a wisdom tooth operation. I'd been thinking about it for a month off and on. Much later that night I took ten Coricidin and went to bed. I woke up in the morning feeling really rotten -- weepy, groggy. I could hardly move I thought I was going to die any minute. My roommate came home and got a friend to drive me to the school infirmary, where they gave me something that made me sick to my stomach. The doctor who gave it to me calmed me down. She said it happens to a lot of people, the pills wouldn't hurt me. I felt tingly, like I might pass out any minute.
I was immediately taken in a wheelchair to the psychiatrist's office. I talked to him about five minutes. He kept yelling ta me about why did I take the pills, why didn't I do this or that. I remember thinking, boy this man is a real jerk. I told him I didn't want to see him any more. He said, "That's fine," and put me in a locked room with bars on the windows. I couldn't make phone calls. I felt humiliated, which made me angry. I'm not crazy. I'm not weird. I don't want people to look at me like I'm nuts. I'm not some nutty kid who tried to knock herself off. I was most angry at being stuck in that room. I expected to be put in a straitjacket any minute. I complained until they moved me a pretty room and let me make phone calls.
I was there about two weeks. My psychiatrist kept harping at me about school -- was I going to stay in or drop out? I saw him ten minutes a day. The other patients and one orderly helped me a lot more than he did. I just wanted to find a place where I could be alone and think about things. I left feeling like not much had been accomplished, except letting me know that I didn't want to attempt it again. No -- I feel like I've become a lot more sensitive to people. I don't look at their problems as trivial any more. I almost like it when my friends come to me with problems. I feel like I can help now. I still haven't told the two people I was most angry at -- my father and my boyfriend -- why I was in the hospital.
This one got me the deepest, in my opinion it was an overworked stressed student who just needed council but got some arrogant fuck who knows nothing on the subject of mental health and how to treat it... Barbaric fuck, it's like the dark ages when you read about idiots like these who if anything forced the hand to take it's own life from this girl.
It's an unfortunate thing across therapists, psychologists, counselors, and psychiatrists; generally they decide what approach they think will best help you, or just use whatever approach they think most people "need", and apply it, where it then can be the exact opposite of what that person needs and completely alienate them from the idea getting professional help ever.
The fact that someone decided to commit suicide because of medical bills blows my fucking mind. I'm sure there were other things going on but that seemed to be a primary factor in that decison.
Fucking disgraceful - and people still fight against universal health care.
On April 17 2012 07:20 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
No offense but reading that I don't think you have a very good grasp of what bipolar disorder is.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm using the correct definition.
On April 17 2012 07:20 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
No offense but reading that I don't think you have a very good grasp of what bipolar disorder is.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm using the correct definition.
On April 17 2012 07:20 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
No offense but reading that I don't think you have a very good grasp of what bipolar disorder is.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm using the correct definition.
Trust me you have no idea wtf you're talking about if you refer to yourself as "a bit bipolar."
The fact that someone decided to commit suicide because of medical bills blows my fucking mind. I'm sure there were other things going on but that seemed to be a primary factor in that decison.
Fucking disgraceful - and people still fight against universal health care.
People also commit suicide for losing jobs, losing a bunch of money on the stock market, making a big gamble on the housing market and failing. Hospital bills are not unique in this respect.
Happy* people will never be able to understand sadness*. It's like religious people trying to understand atheism - two ontologies, neither of which is inherently "better" than the other, that will never be compatible.
Even the language used to talk about suicidal ideation and depression is hegemonic. If "rational" people don't spontaneously commit suicide, and people who contemplate suicide for a long time must be suffering from a chemical imbalance in their brain, there is no way for someone to commit suicide and not be considered "crazy".
*Not the words I wanted to use, but I find the other binaries to be problematic.
On April 17 2012 07:20 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
No offense but reading that I don't think you have a very good grasp of what bipolar disorder is.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm using the correct definition.
Trust me you have no idea wtf you're talking about if you refer to yourself as "a bit bipolar."
~quote inside spoiler to save space...
I have a friend who is bipolar. And not "a bit bipolar". Like totally on top of the world and the best fun ever for 1 hour to fits of tears and not wanting to move and totally depressed and angry and the change can happen in seconds. Disorders like this make suicide far far more likely im led to believe, as when people with this condition get bad news they can become incredibly unhappy, more unhappy than many people imagine is possible, and well... then they can make bad decisions too
I love the human brain for how amazing it can be. But... I hate the brain for how it can totally ruin you and destroy everything.
I've been told mixed-manic episodes (what you seem to be describing) are among the most dangerous psychiatric states someone can find themselves in. The depressive moments can be so low that you have those suicidal thoughts, and then the manic moments which come must minutes or hours after can give you the excessive energy and disjointed state of mind that can easily result in suicide. Truly terrifying stuff.
I'm sorry, but if your world doesn't revolve around you there's a problem. People have a ton of things in their lives that would drive them to commit suicide, and to criticize them for that decision is wrong.
On April 17 2012 07:20 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
probably better to use the terms introverted and unfulfilled than claiming to potentially have bipolar disorder...
On April 17 2012 07:20 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
No offense but reading that I don't think you have a very good grasp of what bipolar disorder is.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm using the correct definition.
uhh usually its much more severe to be even considered some form of bipolar and by severe i mean super happy ---> uncontrollable rage / anger trust me i had a psychotic step mom for a few years who occasionally didn't take her meds..
The fact that someone decided to commit suicide because of medical bills blows my fucking mind. I'm sure there were other things going on but that seemed to be a primary factor in that decison.
Fucking disgraceful - and people still fight against universal health care.
People also commit suicide for losing jobs, losing a bunch of money on the stock market, making a big gamble on the housing market and failing. Hospital bills are not unique in this respect.
No, you're right. Hospital bills aren't unique in that respect - but they are unique in that they reflect the inability of a state to ensure it's citizens have access to healthcare regardless of whether or not they lost their jobs or have no money. The economy can tank, people can lose money in whatever way may come to pass; but with universal health care, at least they know they don't have to worry about whether or not they can get adequate treatment for a fucking infection.
Lose job --> no money for hospital bills --> suicide
Lose job ---> don't need to worry about hospital bills --> keep fighting
On April 17 2012 07:20 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
No offense but reading that I don't think you have a very good grasp of what bipolar disorder is.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm using the correct definition.
Trust me you have no idea wtf you're talking about if you refer to yourself as "a bit bipolar."
I go through a couple weeks of being pretty normal (more like extremely silly) with friends, and then a couple weeks of being more introverted where I just stay in my room, eat alone, and think. I'm nowhere near a qualified psychiatrist/ psychologist, but I think that fits the basic definition and am more familiar with my own mental state than you are. The only question is whether this is a pretty much permanent thing (I don't think so), or a result of some things that are going on right now.
@the other guy: cool bandwagoning, and trust me, no one appreciates thinly veiled insults than me.
@other other guy: Bipolar is a spectrum, just like pretty much everything in psychology (which far as I understand is a pretty inexact science still). I don't think what I have would be like diagnosis-worthy, but I feel that I'm still a bit more swingy than the so-called average person. Everyone's a bit crazy in their own way.
On April 17 2012 07:20 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
No offense but reading that I don't think you have a very good grasp of what bipolar disorder is.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm using the correct definition.
Trust me you have no idea wtf you're talking about if you refer to yourself as "a bit bipolar."
I go through a couple weeks of being pretty normal (more like extremely silly) with friends, and then a couple weeks of being more introverted where I just stay in my room, eat alone, and think. I'm nowhere near a qualified psychiatrist/ psychologist, but I think that fits the basic definition and am more familiar with my own mental state than you are. The only question is whether this is a pretty much permanent thing (I don't think so), or a result of some things that are going on right now.
@the other guy: cool bandwagoning, and trust me, no one appreciates thinly veiled insults than me.
@other other guy: Bipolar is a spectrum, just like pretty much everything in psychology (which far as I understand is a pretty inexact science still). I don't think what I have would be like diagnosis-worthy, but I feel that I'm still a bit more swingy than the so-called average person. Everyone's a bit crazy in their own way.
bipolar doesnt mean, "i swing between two moods"; that's indicative of literally every mental disorder, as well as people with absolutely nothing wrong with them. beyond that, "norm" isn't a swing of bipolar.
On April 17 2012 07:20 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
No offense but reading that I don't think you have a very good grasp of what bipolar disorder is.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm using the correct definition.
Trust me you have no idea wtf you're talking about if you refer to yourself as "a bit bipolar."
I go through a couple weeks of being pretty normal (more like extremely silly) with friends, and then a couple weeks of being more introverted where I just stay in my room, eat alone, and think. I'm nowhere near a qualified psychiatrist/ psychologist, but I think that fits the basic definition and am more familiar with my own mental state than you are. The only question is whether this is a pretty much permanent thing (I don't think so), or a result of some things that are going on right now.
@the other guy: cool bandwagoning, and trust me, no one appreciates thinly veiled insults than me.
@other other guy: Bipolar is a spectrum, just like pretty much everything in psychology (which far as I understand is a pretty inexact science still). I don't think what I have would be like diagnosis-worthy, but I feel that I'm still a bit more swingy than the so-called average person. Everyone's a bit crazy in their own way.
On April 17 2012 09:15 khaydarin9 wrote: Happy* people will never be able to understand sadness*. It's like religious people trying to understand atheism - two ontologies, neither of which is inherently "better" than the other, that will never be compatible.
Even the language used to talk about suicidal ideation and depression is hegemonic. If "rational" people don't spontaneously commit suicide, and people who contemplate suicide for a long time must be suffering from a chemical imbalance in their brain, there is no way for someone to commit suicide and not be considered "crazy".
*Not the words I wanted to use, but I find the other binaries to be problematic.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
What about those that have been ever so close to the edge of suicide, then stopped, and are now happy people? They understand, I'm sure.
A great deal of introspection (or meditation...whatever you'd like to call it) also helps understanding the suffering of others, even to such extreme degree.
On April 17 2012 09:15 khaydarin9 wrote: Happy* people will never be able to understand sadness*. It's like religious people trying to understand atheism - two ontologies, neither of which is inherently "better" than the other, that will never be compatible.
Even the language used to talk about suicidal ideation and depression is hegemonic. If "rational" people don't spontaneously commit suicide, and people who contemplate suicide for a long time must be suffering from a chemical imbalance in their brain, there is no way for someone to commit suicide and not be considered "crazy".
*Not the words I wanted to use, but I find the other binaries to be problematic.
I'm not entirely sure what you mean.
What about those that have been ever so close to the edge of suicide, then stopped, and are now happy people? They understand, I'm sure.
A great deal of introspection (or meditation...whatever you'd like to call it) also helps understanding the suffering of others, even to such extreme degree.
And yet, the prevalent attitude is "sane people do not commit suicide".
One of the most common platitudes offered to people suffering from depression is "It will get better", which is only true in that you don't really hear from the people for whom it does not get better, because there is a high probability that they have committed suicide.
Sometimes I can never really understand suicide. I have thought about it before, but I also know that death will come sooner or later, so I promised myself that there is no hurry. I mean I never know what the future brings. Rather if it brings misfortune or happiness, I will still have to die someday, so why the heck not live it out. And if I am extremely unhappy, what is stopping me from changing how things are? I mean if I am willing to commit suicide, then why am I not willing to change the way I live my life, just to see if that other way of living might just be better. When I think about suicide, I think about all the other people who are fighting so hard to live.
Whenever I see this picture, I interpret it simply as the will to live. The child is starved nearly to death, but despite her state of being she is trying to live. I just can't even contemplate suicidal thoughts anymore because if someone so frail try to fight on living, then at the very least, I can't lose to myself and the thoughts of suicide.
The fact that someone decided to commit suicide because of medical bills blows my fucking mind. I'm sure there were other things going on but that seemed to be a primary factor in that decison.
Fucking disgraceful - and people still fight against universal health care.
People also commit suicide for losing jobs, losing a bunch of money on the stock market, making a big gamble on the housing market and failing. Hospital bills are not unique in this respect.
see, funny thing about corporate healthcare is, if you get sick and are mid class most of the time your still just fucked outa luck, because apparently someone along the line thought free healthcare was a bad idea, and by someone i generally mean the upper class who get everything they want anyway : P phew for living in a progressive nation hahahaha, id be frighten sick living in the states even with my well paid salary I have if any of my kids got sick.
if anything, that was one of the more reasonable reasons.
If I one day found myself suicidal I'd like to kill myself in a badass way, via jellyfish like Will Smith in Seven Pounds, or perhaps in a fun way, like skydiving with no parachute!
On April 17 2012 11:27 Pokemonxoxo wrote: Graphic picture + Show Spoiler +
Whenever I see this picture, I interpret it simply as the will to live. The child is starved nearly to death, but despite her state of being she is trying to live. I just can't even contemplate suicidal thoughts anymore because if someone so frail try to fight on living, then at the very least, I can't lose to myself and the thoughts of suicide.
How can you say from that picture that she is trying to live, stay alive?
It's pretty obvious people that commit suicide are not in the right state of mind. They might not be completely insane but in the moment they could feel pressured to take such action. It isn't always depression either; It could be from anger.
You see moments when people get pushed too far and kill another person. It is the same when committing suicide. You are not thinking "clearly" and acting on pure emotion.
I suggest if anyone ever considers taking such action just don't do it. You can't give up or you will never know if life could have gotten better. I like to believe things happen for a reason. I've had my highs, my lows, and some really low lows. Another way to look at it - when you hit the really low lows is that life can't get any worst and things can only go up from there. The world is a big place and there is so much out there to see before you go.
On April 17 2012 12:00 Rfaulker wrote: If I one day found myself suicidal I'd like to kill myself in a badass way, via jellyfish like Will Smith in Seven Pounds, or perhaps in a fun way, like skydiving with no parachute!
...Or is that not the point?
If I stopped caring I would go to some third world country and pick a fight with a warlord. That way I feel like I am doing some good
On April 17 2012 12:33 Zerothegreat wrote: It's pretty obvious people that commit suicide are not in the right state of mind. They might not be completely insane but in the moment they could feel pressured to take such action. It isn't always depression either; It could be from anger.
You see moments when people get pushed too far and kill another person. It is the same when committing suicide. You are not thinking "clearly" and acting on pure emotion.
I suggest if anyone ever considers taking such action just don't do it. You can't give up or you will never know if life could have gotten better. I like to believe things happen for a reason. I've had my highs, my lows, and some really low lows. Another way to look at it - when you hit the really low lows is that life can't get any worst and things can only go up from there. The world is a big place and there is so much out there to see before you go.
Yeah...you know, 'cause it's that easy to just convince yourself all is going to get better soon...
Let's not trivialize suicidal thoughts/feelings, alright. It's easy to say "just don't do it". It's entirely another to see past the events that ultimately led to the present suicidal state and actually realize that suicide probably isn't the best thing...
On April 17 2012 07:20 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
No offense but reading that I don't think you have a very good grasp of what bipolar disorder is.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm using the correct definition.
Trust me you have no idea wtf you're talking about if you refer to yourself as "a bit bipolar."
I go through a couple weeks of being pretty normal (more like extremely silly) with friends, and then a couple weeks of being more introverted where I just stay in my room, eat alone, and think. I'm nowhere near a qualified psychiatrist/ psychologist, but I think that fits the basic definition and am more familiar with my own mental state than you are. The only question is whether this is a pretty much permanent thing (I don't think so), or a result of some things that are going on right now.
@the other guy: cool bandwagoning, and trust me, no one appreciates thinly veiled insults than me.
@other other guy: Bipolar is a spectrum, just like pretty much everything in psychology (which far as I understand is a pretty inexact science still). I don't think what I have would be like diagnosis-worthy, but I feel that I'm still a bit more swingy than the so-called average person. Everyone's a bit crazy in their own way.
trust me dude you arent anywhere near bipolar. people have mood swings, it's normal. bipolar people go from periods of complete mania, to utterly dehabilitating depression without warning. it's severe
On April 17 2012 12:33 Zerothegreat wrote: It's pretty obvious people that commit suicide are not in the right state of mind. They might not be completely insane but in the moment they could feel pressured to take such action. It isn't always depression either; It could be from anger.
You see moments when people get pushed too far and kill another person. It is the same when committing suicide. You are not thinking "clearly" and acting on pure emotion.
I suggest if anyone ever considers taking such action just don't do it. You can't give up or you will never know if life could have gotten better. I like to believe things happen for a reason. I've had my highs, my lows, and some really low lows. Another way to look at it - when you hit the really low lows is that life can't get any worst and things can only go up from there. The world is a big place and there is so much out there to see before you go.
Yeah...you know, 'cause it's that easy to just convince yourself all is going to get better soon...
Let's not trivialize suicidal thoughts/feelings, alright. It's easy to say "just don't do it". It's entirely another to see past the events that ultimately led to the present suicidal state and actually realize that suicide probably isn't the best thing...
Sad fact is that it is as easy as that. Some people just like to over complicate things. A lot of choices come from emotions which affect how we think. No matter how bad you got it someone always has it worst.
Also, you should use these struggles in life and spin them off into a positive. Who knows? You might save someone some day because you can sympathize with what they are going through.
How many notes written . . . ink smeared like birdprints in snow.
not good enough not pretty enough not smart enough
dear mother and father. I apologize for disappointing you. I've worked very hard, not good enough harder, perhaps to please you.
If only I were a son, shoulders broad as the sunset threading through pine, I would see the light in my mother's eyes, or the golden pride reflected in my father's dream of my wide, male hands worthy of work and comfort.
I would swagger through life muscled and bold and assured, drawing praises to me like currents in the bed of wind, virile with confidence.
not good enough not strong enough not good enough
I apologize. Tasks do not come easily. Each failure, a glacier. Each disapproval, a bootprint. Each disappointment, ice above my river. So I have worked hard.
not good enough. My sacrifice I will drop bone by bone, perched on the ledge of my womanhood, fragile as wings.
not strong enough It is snowing steadily surely not good weather for flying - this sparrow sillied and dizzied by the wind on the edge.
not smart enough. I make this ledge my altar to offer penance. This air will not hold me, the snow burdens my crippled wings,
my tears drop like bitter cloth softly into the gutter below.
not good enough not strong enough not smart enough
Choices thin as shaved ice. Notes shredded drift like snow on my broken body, covers me like whispers of sorries.
Perhaps when they find me they will bury my bird bones beneath a sturdy pine
and scatter my feathers like unspoken song over this white and cold and silent
On April 17 2012 12:33 Zerothegreat wrote: It's pretty obvious people that commit suicide are not in the right state of mind. They might not be completely insane but in the moment they could feel pressured to take such action. It isn't always depression either; It could be from anger.
You see moments when people get pushed too far and kill another person. It is the same when committing suicide. You are not thinking "clearly" and acting on pure emotion.
I suggest if anyone ever considers taking such action just don't do it. You can't give up or you will never know if life could have gotten better. I like to believe things happen for a reason. I've had my highs, my lows, and some really low lows. Another way to look at it - when you hit the really low lows is that life can't get any worst and things can only go up from there. The world is a big place and there is so much out there to see before you go.
Yeah...you know, 'cause it's that easy to just convince yourself all is going to get better soon...
Let's not trivialize suicidal thoughts/feelings, alright. It's easy to say "just don't do it". It's entirely another to see past the events that ultimately led to the present suicidal state and actually realize that suicide probably isn't the best thing...
Sad fact is that it is as easy as that. Some people just like to over complicate things. A lot of choices come from emotions which affect how we think. No matter how bad you got it someone always has it worst.
Also, you should use these struggles in life and spin them off into a positive. Who knows? You might save someone some day because you can sympathize with what they are going through.
In the moment, there is nothing worse. When you are emotionally degraded every single day of your life because your dad tells you that he wishes you had never been born, and you live with the knowledge that your mother abandoned you at the age of 6, to never speak to you again, there is nothing worse.
When the bruises and cuts and scrapes cover every portion of your body that clothes can hide, and you are too afraid to tell anyone about them because you just KNOW he will kill you, there is nothing worse.
When you are locked in what essentially amounts to solitary confinement in your bedroom with nothing to do but think for an entire month in the summer, there is nothing worse.
When you are 12 years old and you know the pain won't stop for at least another 6 years, there is nothing worse.
When you put the noose around your neck, and jump off of the top bunk of your bed, only to struggle because you weren't heavy enough to snap your neck on the way down and slowly slip into unconsciousness, the relief is immense. Even those few minutes of pain and struggle are nothing compared to the pain you've felt for as long as you can remember.
And when your brother finds you there and gets you down from what would surely be your place of death and slaps you until you wake up? You wake up and you realize that you had failed yet again. And you cry. For hours. Because your sweet relief was taken from you and now you won't have the courage to try again because it took so fucking long to build it in the first place. There is nothing worse.
My boss, Kenneth J., seduced me and made me pregnant. He refuses to help me. I had not had intercourse in two years. He says that I will have to suffer through it by myself. Several people know about this — my doctor, Dr. James R., and Pete M., who works at Willams. Pete and I never had a love affair, although Kenneth would like to drag Pete into it. Also, Dr. Arnold W. knows about it. I have always been such a good girl.
Daddy dear —
As much as it hurts me, I cannot make it this Friday. I may be in very serious trouble. I have always been a very good person, but it looks like I really got in a mess, through no real fault of my own.
I must have been born to suffer.
Love - Elizabeth
P.S. Call me if you can. When will Sally be back? I may need her desperately.
The attitude against depression in this thread is depressing. If you haven't had any experiences, or know anyone with any experiences you don't have a real opinion on this.
why do people think suicide is selfish? i contemplated suicide a few times between ages 6-12, as i would rather have had eternal rest than live every day in fear. I don't think there's anything selfish about not wanting to live in terror. i'm sure my family members would have understood if i did kill myself, just like i could understand them if they killed themselves. (not that they had reason to)
Anyway, if you don't like people killing themselves you should help them to live instead of just standing back and saying it's selfish, imo.
When I was about 15-16 or so I threw myself out of a car and onto the freeway, after a long summer of fighting and screaming with my father.
I never received any help and the times that my friends tried to approach the subject only made me feel worse and helpless. My friends also felt the same way. I tried to do commit suicide two separate times in the next year.
If I could kill myself without pain, like a tablet that painlessly kills you when you sleep, I would keep that pill locked up in a safe where I know it is at all times. I would use it if the world turned upside down.
I think many more people would kill themselves if there was a painless way to do it
I've always been wondering the stuff that goes through the head of someone about to pull the trigger, so to speak. Its an interesting read, and although I won't pass judgement, I find it sad that many young people kill themselves over heartbreak or wounds that will eventually heal.
"I married the wrong nag-nag-nag and I lost my life. W.S."
to the undertaker "We have got plenty money to give me a decent burial. Don't let my wife kid you by saying she has not got any money."
This man was 70 something and apparently in a lot of pain. That bit actually had me laughing though.
On April 17 2012 12:33 Zerothegreat wrote: It's pretty obvious people that commit suicide are not in the right state of mind. They might not be completely insane but in the moment they could feel pressured to take such action. It isn't always depression either; It could be from anger.
You see moments when people get pushed too far and kill another person. It is the same when committing suicide. You are not thinking "clearly" and acting on pure emotion.
I suggest if anyone ever considers taking such action just don't do it. You can't give up or you will never know if life could have gotten better. I like to believe things happen for a reason. I've had my highs, my lows, and some really low lows. Another way to look at it - when you hit the really low lows is that life can't get any worst and things can only go up from there. The world is a big place and there is so much out there to see before you go.
Yeah...you know, 'cause it's that easy to just convince yourself all is going to get better soon...
Let's not trivialize suicidal thoughts/feelings, alright. It's easy to say "just don't do it". It's entirely another to see past the events that ultimately led to the present suicidal state and actually realize that suicide probably isn't the best thing...
Sad fact is that it is as easy as that. Some people just like to over complicate things. A lot of choices come from emotions which affect how we think. No matter how bad you got it someone always has it worst.
Also, you should use these struggles in life and spin them off into a positive. Who knows? You might save someone some day because you can sympathize with what they are going through.
In the moment, there is nothing worse. When you are emotionally degraded every single day of your life because your dad tells you that he wishes you had never been born, and you live with the knowledge that your mother abandoned you at the age of 6, to never speak to you again, there is nothing worse.
When the bruises and cuts and scrapes cover every portion of your body that clothes can hide, and you are too afraid to tell anyone about them because you just KNOW he will kill you, there is nothing worse.
When you are locked in what essentially amounts to solitary confinement in your bedroom with nothing to do but think for an entire month in the summer, there is nothing worse.
When you are 12 years old and you know the pain won't stop for at least another 6 years, there is nothing worse.
When you put the noose around your neck, and jump off of the top bunk of your bed, only to struggle because you weren't heavy enough to snap your neck on the way down and slowly slip into unconsciousness, the relief is immense. Even those few minutes of pain and struggle are nothing compared to the pain you've felt for as long as you can remember.
And when your brother finds you there and gets you down from what would surely be your place of death and slaps you until you wake up? You wake up and you realize that you had failed yet again. And you cry. For hours. Because your sweet relief was taken from you and now you won't have the courage to try again because it took so fucking long to build it in the first place. There is nothing worse.
Unless you've been there, you don't have a clue.
And you know that I haven't? You are mistaken. Like I've said we all have our problems. I saw a show yesterday that was talking about a little girl that was locked in her closet by her parents for months and had to eat wood off the wall just to live.
Have you had it this bad? I don't think none of us have.
I grew up to the point where when someone isn't pleased with the way I've lived my life, I tell them "Oh well, it's mine to live." People will always try to put you down and hold you back but only because they aren't happy with their own lives.
On April 17 2012 13:51 StyLeD wrote: If I could kill myself without pain, like a tablet that painlessly kills you when you sleep, I would keep that pill locked up in a safe where I know it is at all times. I would use it if the world turned upside down.
I think many more people would kill themselves if there was a painless way to do it
Death is too boring... Can't play Starcraft when you are dead.
On April 17 2012 12:33 Zerothegreat wrote: It's pretty obvious people that commit suicide are not in the right state of mind. They might not be completely insane but in the moment they could feel pressured to take such action. It isn't always depression either; It could be from anger.
You see moments when people get pushed too far and kill another person. It is the same when committing suicide. You are not thinking "clearly" and acting on pure emotion.
I suggest if anyone ever considers taking such action just don't do it. You can't give up or you will never know if life could have gotten better. I like to believe things happen for a reason. I've had my highs, my lows, and some really low lows. Another way to look at it - when you hit the really low lows is that life can't get any worst and things can only go up from there. The world is a big place and there is so much out there to see before you go.
Yeah...you know, 'cause it's that easy to just convince yourself all is going to get better soon...
Let's not trivialize suicidal thoughts/feelings, alright. It's easy to say "just don't do it". It's entirely another to see past the events that ultimately led to the present suicidal state and actually realize that suicide probably isn't the best thing...
Sad fact is that it is as easy as that. Some people just like to over complicate things. A lot of choices come from emotions which affect how we think. No matter how bad you got it someone always has it worst.
Also, you should use these struggles in life and spin them off into a positive. Who knows? You might save someone some day because you can sympathize with what they are going through.
In the moment, there is nothing worse. When you are emotionally degraded every single day of your life because your dad tells you that he wishes you had never been born, and you live with the knowledge that your mother abandoned you at the age of 6, to never speak to you again, there is nothing worse.
When the bruises and cuts and scrapes cover every portion of your body that clothes can hide, and you are too afraid to tell anyone about them because you just KNOW he will kill you, there is nothing worse.
When you are locked in what essentially amounts to solitary confinement in your bedroom with nothing to do but think for an entire month in the summer, there is nothing worse.
When you are 12 years old and you know the pain won't stop for at least another 6 years, there is nothing worse.
When you put the noose around your neck, and jump off of the top bunk of your bed, only to struggle because you weren't heavy enough to snap your neck on the way down and slowly slip into unconsciousness, the relief is immense. Even those few minutes of pain and struggle are nothing compared to the pain you've felt for as long as you can remember.
And when your brother finds you there and gets you down from what would surely be your place of death and slaps you until you wake up? You wake up and you realize that you had failed yet again. And you cry. For hours. Because your sweet relief was taken from you and now you won't have the courage to try again because it took so fucking long to build it in the first place. There is nothing worse.
Unless you've been there, you don't have a clue.
And you know that I haven't? You are mistaken. Like I've said we all have our problems. I saw a show yesterday that was talking about a little girl that was locked in her closet by her parents for months and had to eat wood off the wall just to live.
Have you had it this bad? I don't think none of us have.
I grew up to the point where when someone isn't pleased with the way I've lived my life, I tell them "Oh well, it's mine to live." People will always try to put you down and hold you back but only because they aren't happy with their own lives.
I apologize. I just think it's incredibly understating the issue to think that one should just be able to realize "that others have it worse." Knowing that literally does nothing to make the situation better for someone who is depressed enough to actually attempt suicide. Especially not at the age of 12.
In retrospect, I realize that I'm a much stronger person because of the things I've been through (it takes a LOT to really shake me now) but I had no way of knowing that at the time. I just knew that suicide was the only way to make everyones life better.
Also, in my particular case, I was thoroughly convinced that if I offed myself I would actually be doing everyone a favor. I knew that if I was dead, my dad wouldn't have to "put up with me" and he'd go on with his life without burden.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
On April 17 2012 07:20 ticklishmusic wrote: I'm probably a bit bipolar-- sometimes I'm silly and outgoing, other times (most of the time) I'm pretty quiet and reflective, even tending toward what people would call the "depressed side". Sure, there's some things wrong with my life that I can't control, but there's some good stuff too.
I know that depression isn't necessarily the road to suicide, but I sometimes wonder how close I've been in my darkest moments. Probably not really, I hope.
No offense but reading that I don't think you have a very good grasp of what bipolar disorder is.
Nah, I'm pretty sure I'm using the correct definition.
Trust me you have no idea wtf you're talking about if you refer to yourself as "a bit bipolar."
I go through a couple weeks of being pretty normal (more like extremely silly) with friends, and then a couple weeks of being more introverted where I just stay in my room, eat alone, and think. I'm nowhere near a qualified psychiatrist/ psychologist, but I think that fits the basic definition and am more familiar with my own mental state than you are. The only question is whether this is a pretty much permanent thing (I don't think so), or a result of some things that are going on right now.
@the other guy: cool bandwagoning, and trust me, no one appreciates thinly veiled insults than me.
@other other guy: Bipolar is a spectrum, just like pretty much everything in psychology (which far as I understand is a pretty inexact science still). I don't think what I have would be like diagnosis-worthy, but I feel that I'm still a bit more swingy than the so-called average person. Everyone's a bit crazy in their own way.
What you described, describes well a big bunch of people (you are not that unique) especially younger people. You do not have bipolar disorder.
On April 17 2012 12:33 Zerothegreat wrote: It's pretty obvious people that commit suicide are not in the right state of mind. They might not be completely insane but in the moment they could feel pressured to take such action. It isn't always depression either; It could be from anger.
You see moments when people get pushed too far and kill another person. It is the same when committing suicide. You are not thinking "clearly" and acting on pure emotion.
I suggest if anyone ever considers taking such action just don't do it. You can't give up or you will never know if life could have gotten better. I like to believe things happen for a reason. I've had my highs, my lows, and some really low lows. Another way to look at it - when you hit the really low lows is that life can't get any worst and things can only go up from there. The world is a big place and there is so much out there to see before you go.
Yeah...you know, 'cause it's that easy to just convince yourself all is going to get better soon...
Let's not trivialize suicidal thoughts/feelings, alright. It's easy to say "just don't do it". It's entirely another to see past the events that ultimately led to the present suicidal state and actually realize that suicide probably isn't the best thing...
Sad fact is that it is as easy as that. Some people just like to over complicate things. A lot of choices come from emotions which affect how we think. No matter how bad you got it someone always has it worst.
Also, you should use these struggles in life and spin them off into a positive. Who knows? You might save someone some day because you can sympathize with what they are going through.
In the moment, there is nothing worse. When you are emotionally degraded every single day of your life because your dad tells you that he wishes you had never been born, and you live with the knowledge that your mother abandoned you at the age of 6, to never speak to you again, there is nothing worse.
When the bruises and cuts and scrapes cover every portion of your body that clothes can hide, and you are too afraid to tell anyone about them because you just KNOW he will kill you, there is nothing worse.
When you are locked in what essentially amounts to solitary confinement in your bedroom with nothing to do but think for an entire month in the summer, there is nothing worse.
When you are 12 years old and you know the pain won't stop for at least another 6 years, there is nothing worse.
When you put the noose around your neck, and jump off of the top bunk of your bed, only to struggle because you weren't heavy enough to snap your neck on the way down and slowly slip into unconsciousness, the relief is immense. Even those few minutes of pain and struggle are nothing compared to the pain you've felt for as long as you can remember.
And when your brother finds you there and gets you down from what would surely be your place of death and slaps you until you wake up? You wake up and you realize that you had failed yet again. And you cry. For hours. Because your sweet relief was taken from you and now you won't have the courage to try again because it took so fucking long to build it in the first place. There is nothing worse.
Unless you've been there, you don't have a clue.
And you know that I haven't? You are mistaken. Like I've said we all have our problems. I saw a show yesterday that was talking about a little girl that was locked in her closet by her parents for months and had to eat wood off the wall just to live.
Have you had it this bad? I don't think none of us have.
I grew up to the point where when someone isn't pleased with the way I've lived my life, I tell them "Oh well, it's mine to live." People will always try to put you down and hold you back but only because they aren't happy with their own lives.
I apologize. I just think it's incredibly understating the issue to assume that one should just be able to realize "that others have it worse." Knowing that literally does nothing to make the situation better for someone who is depressed enough to actually attempt suicide. Especially not at the age of 12.
Ugh my prior post had double negatives ewww....
Anyways.. I see what you are saying but the better wording I guess would be, "There is more to look forward to." I know plenty of kids who just couldn't wait to hit the age to be on their own so they could live the way they wanted.
You can find lots of success stories these days from people that came from a bad background and made a huge difference. It's this reason I always wonder why anyone in their right mind would do it. But this is why I say they aren't in their right mind when they do it.
On April 17 2012 13:51 StyLeD wrote: If I could kill myself without pain, like a tablet that painlessly kills you when you sleep, I would keep that pill locked up in a safe where I know it is at all times. I would use it if the world turned upside down.
I think many more people would kill themselves if there was a painless way to do it
Death is too boring... Can't play Starcraft when you are dead.
The shitty part about depression is that you completely loose interest in all the things that you have loved, including starcraft. you just don't feel that drive to do anything anymore, you just want to lie down and drown in your own self defeats. Its a shitty feeling, and honestly even when forcing yourself to play it, even when you win, you don't feel any better than you were before. you just start looking at all the mistakes you have ever made, and then other things just come in and cloud your mind with thoughts that just make yourself feel like you are the most worthless piece of living shit to ever live on the planet.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Anyone who considers or attempts suicide is being selfish and cowardly. This is a very pervasive stereotype, but for obvious reasons, it's one of the most blatantly untrue ones. People attempt suicide for a variety of reasons, whether that's due to a long history of depression or recent traumas, and oftentimes people in the grip of depression who are considering suicide attempt it out of a desire for it "all to be over." The best way to help someone who's attempted or is about to attempt suicide is not to tell them they're being 'selfish' or 'inconsiderate', but to assist them in getting the help they need.
On April 17 2012 13:51 StyLeD wrote: If I could kill myself without pain, like a tablet that painlessly kills you when you sleep, I would keep that pill locked up in a safe where I know it is at all times. I would use it if the world turned upside down.
I think many more people would kill themselves if there was a painless way to do it
Death is too boring... Can't play Starcraft when you are dead.
The shitty part about depression is that you completely loose interest in all the things that you have loved, including starcraft. you just don't feel that drive to do anything anymore, you just want to lie down and drown in your own self defeats. Its a shitty feeling, and honestly even when forcing yourself to play it, even when you win, you don't feel any better than you were before. you just start looking at all the mistakes you have ever made, and then other things just come in and cloud your mind with thoughts that just make yourself feel like you are the most worthless piece of living shit to ever live on the planet.
And it's times like these you need to seek professional help. They have medication for that, seriously.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Anyone who considers or attempts suicide is being selfish and cowardly. This is a very pervasive stereotype, but for obvious reasons, it's one of the most blatantly untrue ones. People attempt suicide for a variety of reasons, whether that's due to a long history of depression or recent traumas, and oftentimes people in the grip of depression who are considering suicide attempt it out of a desire for it "all to be over." The best way to help someone who's attempted or is about to attempt suicide is not to tell them they're being 'selfish' or 'inconsiderate', but to assist them in getting the help they need.
It isn't a lie. Your whole statement just contradicted itself. Having the courage to get help? COURAGE! Hmmm....
And where did I say you should insult the person who is thinking about committing suicide? We all know that doesn't help.
But there is lots of other ways to view suicide or suicidal tendencies... People that smoke or do any type of harmful drug are technically killing their self. Hitler killed himself when he knew he would be captured. Many reasons and variety of ways people do it. Hell, even enlisting in active duty in the military could be a way.
On April 17 2012 13:44 lpstroggoz wrote: why do people think suicide is selfish? i contemplated suicide a few times between ages 6-12, as i would rather have had eternal rest than live every day in fear. I don't think there's anything selfish about not wanting to live in terror. i'm sure my family members would have understood if i did kill myself, just like i could understand them if they killed themselves. (not that they had reason to)
Anyway, if you don't like people killing themselves you should help them to live instead of just standing back and saying it's selfish, imo.
It is selfish, because you put your own "wellbeing" first. It is not necessarily always wrong, but in most cases it is. By killing yourself, you are inflicting extreme suffering on people who love you. And in most cases the reasons you have for the suicide are delusions and getting help would actually change your life for better. Problem is people in such situations often have inability to even imagine how getting help would change anything, which is self-fulfilling prophecy. Again existing social support net is extremely important, because it forces the person in question into a situation where he has to choose if he wants to inflict suffering on close ones. For adult people that often is enough to make them get help.
On April 17 2012 13:44 lpstroggoz wrote: why do people think suicide is selfish? i contemplated suicide a few times between ages 6-12, as i would rather have had eternal rest than live every day in fear. I don't think there's anything selfish about not wanting to live in terror. i'm sure my family members would have understood if i did kill myself, just like i could understand them if they killed themselves. (not that they had reason to)
Anyway, if you don't like people killing themselves you should help them to live instead of just standing back and saying it's selfish, imo.
The fact that you even thought/know about suicide at the age of 6 is disturbing, I'm sorry that you had a bad childhood, so did I. But not enough that I would think thoroughly about suicide.
Your family would understand, however if your action took place you would've made a lot more frowns upons peoples faces, thus the reason why it is selfish. I am proud of you for overcoming it.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
On April 17 2012 14:27 ThePlayer33 wrote: I may have to say goodbye to the world if i cannot find a bottle of sriracha sauce in the next 24 hours. HELP!!!!
Anyway.... Yet I'm interestesd about NonY's current state. Most of us, I assume, know that he's in a state of depression. I hope you've recovered a lot, mate :S wouldn't like seeing one of my most favorite pro-player's in a depressed state for too long.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Anyone who considers or attempts suicide is being selfish and cowardly. This is a very pervasive stereotype, but for obvious reasons, it's one of the most blatantly untrue ones. People attempt suicide for a variety of reasons, whether that's due to a long history of depression or recent traumas, and oftentimes people in the grip of depression who are considering suicide attempt it out of a desire for it "all to be over." The best way to help someone who's attempted or is about to attempt suicide is not to tell them they're being 'selfish' or 'inconsiderate', but to assist them in getting the help they need.
It isn't a lie. Your whole statement just contradicted itself. Having the courage to get help? COURAGE! Hmmm....
And where did I say you should insult the person who is thinking about committing suicide? We all know that doesn't help.
But there is lots of other ways to view suicide or suicidal tendencies... People that smoke or do any type of harmful drug are technically killing their self. Hitler killed himself when he knew he would be captured. Many reasons and variety of ways people do it.
Your view on suicide is pretty naive, you don't consider the circumstances that the depressed person finds him/herself in. You don't consider why some one would consider suicide. You don't consider whether or not the person is actually able to help him/herself, if he or she is mentally fit enough to make rational decisions.
And you wonder why people are afraid of asking for help? Why people are afraid of being judged? Why depressed kids feel like they're less of a person? People with such judgmental views like you.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Anyone who considers or attempts suicide is being selfish and cowardly. This is a very pervasive stereotype, but for obvious reasons, it's one of the most blatantly untrue ones. People attempt suicide for a variety of reasons, whether that's due to a long history of depression or recent traumas, and oftentimes people in the grip of depression who are considering suicide attempt it out of a desire for it "all to be over." The best way to help someone who's attempted or is about to attempt suicide is not to tell them they're being 'selfish' or 'inconsiderate', but to assist them in getting the help they need.
It isn't a lie. Your whole statement just contradicted itself. Having the courage to get help? COURAGE! Hmmm....
And where did I say you should insult the person who is thinking about committing suicide? We all know that doesn't help.
But there is lots of other ways to view suicide or suicidal tendencies... People that smoke or do any type of harmful drug are technically killing their self. Hitler killed himself when he knew he would be captured. Many reasons and variety of ways people do it.
Your view on suicide is pretty naive, you don't consider the circumstances that the depressed person finds him/herself in. You don't consider why some one would consider suicide. You don't consider whether or not the person is actually able to help him/herself, if he or she is mentally fit enough to make rational decisions.
And you wonder why people are afraid of asking for help? Why people are afraid of being judged? Why depressed kids feel like they're less of a person? People with such judgmental views like you.
My view is on people that kill themselves due to their emotions. Emotional suicides are illogical and definitely should seek help.
There are logical reasons to commit suicide though and they are not based on an emotional state of mind. They are based on extreme situations. I will give you an example: You are in the military and the enemy has caught you. You know these people will torture you and then kill you. In this case, you are better off trying to kill yourself off quickly. If you are dying a slow painful death it is best to go ahead and put a bullet in your head.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
I usually try to debate stupid arguments like this and I don't like to insult people so directly, but this is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. You are really, really naive.
I can tell you from personal experience that a turning point in one's life can come very unexpectedly even after 8 years of horrid living.
On April 17 2012 13:51 StyLeD wrote: If I could kill myself without pain, like a tablet that painlessly kills you when you sleep, I would keep that pill locked up in a safe where I know it is at all times. I would use it if the world turned upside down.
I think many more people would kill themselves if there was a painless way to do it
Death is too boring... Can't play Starcraft when you are dead.
The shitty part about depression is that you completely loose interest in all the things that you have loved, including starcraft. you just don't feel that drive to do anything anymore, you just want to lie down and drown in your own self defeats. Its a shitty feeling, and honestly even when forcing yourself to play it, even when you win, you don't feel any better than you were before. you just start looking at all the mistakes you have ever made, and then other things just come in and cloud your mind with thoughts that just make yourself feel like you are the most worthless piece of living shit to ever live on the planet.
And it's times like these you need to seek professional help. They have medication for that, seriously.
The sad part is knowing you need medication. That just compounds the depression and why many people don't go before it's too late.
On April 17 2012 13:51 StyLeD wrote: If I could kill myself without pain, like a tablet that painlessly kills you when you sleep, I would keep that pill locked up in a safe where I know it is at all times. I would use it if the world turned upside down.
I think many more people would kill themselves if there was a painless way to do it
Death is too boring... Can't play Starcraft when you are dead.
The shitty part about depression is that you completely loose interest in all the things that you have loved, including starcraft. you just don't feel that drive to do anything anymore, you just want to lie down and drown in your own self defeats. Its a shitty feeling, and honestly even when forcing yourself to play it, even when you win, you don't feel any better than you were before. you just start looking at all the mistakes you have ever made, and then other things just come in and cloud your mind with thoughts that just make yourself feel like you are the most worthless piece of living shit to ever live on the planet.
And it's times like these you need to seek professional help. They have medication for that, seriously.
The sad part is knowing you need medication. That just compounds the depression and why many people don't go before it's too late.
I have a friend that is proud of her "happy pills" as she puts it lol. I think people shouldn't see it as a negative thing as it is actually very common these days.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
I usually try to debate stupid arguments like this and I don't like to insult people so directly, but this is one of the dumbest things I have ever read. You are really, really naive.
I can tell you from personal experience that a turning point in one's life can come very unexpectedly even after 8 years of horrid living.
And you expected what type of response? The post previously was just as ignorant. And I'm naive how? You act as if I'm the enemy here. I've been down all the same roads and contemplated suicide myself. The only thing is, I've grown out of it. So please don't act like I'm sitting here with a silver spoon in my mouth spitting nonsense.
Edit: Or do you mean the guy before me? Hard to tell here with that last sentence...
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
I was going to commit suicide last year. I had this horrible accident that left crippled for 7 months, I needed a surgery to heal the damage but my family didn't have the money, when finally the surgery was scheduled there was a chance that it wouldn't heal the damage, right there after so much pain I decided that that was no way to live. Maybe it was that before the accident my life was so good, all my friends really felt bad for me because they knew I had such a great life ahead and it was all ruined.
3 few days before the surgery knowing it was almost a certainty that I was going to be crippled for life I looked myself in the mirror and decided that if that was the case I would throw myself from the balcony of my aun'ts appartment in a 14th floor, I wrote a suicide note and then though about what was the last thing I would like to do before death, I had postponed reading 1984 for years, so I finally readed it, it is indeed a great book but I'm over emotional about it for obvious reasons.
I was so lucky though, the surgery was a complete succes, almost a miracle, and now even though I'm partially crippled it's deffinevitely not as bad. The desperation that comes with endless pain it's..., because you keep looking your past and see how great it all was and see the future that lies ahead where it's all gone.
I can say though that most people 'that just attemp it' are mostly calling for attention, I never really told my family and friends about my suicide plan, only my best friends knows about it... anyways someone posted that earlier, I think it's true, because people that are determined to commit suicide don't swallow 10 sleeping pills they fucking blow their brains out, or in my case think about jumping from a 14th floor. I was so convinced... you really need some courage, I understand why those japanese generals would suicide after a defeat in war because for them there was no pride in living after that, I saw no pride in living pitied by everybody. I guess since medicine keeps improving every year, maybe in the future with better surgeries and what not there won't be that many people in a situation like mine. [I told my 2 best friends months after the surgery that I had planned to commit suicide, they kind of knew it for the conversations we had].
I particularly hated those people that keep telling you 'you are not a crippled but a special person', 'that doesn't stop you from being whatever you want in life, etc' it's the most horrible thing I ever heard, even today I hate those people with passion... because selling hope to someone that knows it's not there it's insulting, it's living in an alternate reality and a total lack of empathy... you end up wanting to suicide to not hear those comments again.
Now I know how fortunate the human specie is. The other day while I was having a walk to my car from my school in downtown San Jose, I saw two cats on two different blocks that I passed through. One was sitting on stair cases leading to a house, the other was behind the rear tire of a car and looking quite thin. I was wondering whether they were wild cats. I approached one of the cats and wished that I had some food to feed her. Usually cats would run away upon seeing stranger from far distance, however it did not happen in this case. My thought was that they're hungry downtown wild cats with no direction in life.
Similar thing happens to the boat in the backyard of my house. During freezing winter nights I see wild cats around the neighborhood group together and turn the boat into a shelter and just try to survive through the season in an erea where the're no river or lake, just houses and concrete grounds and streets. I always wonder how they feed themselves without a natural environment. What's more disheartening is that my mom told me these cats would get together and breed and multiply.
I have no idea how wild cats would survive in these urban environments and how they would feed their kittens. One thing I know is that these little animals don't know how kill themselves. I just wish that they have the knowledge of taking own's life so they wouldn't have to suffer through hunger. I guess that most of them would probably die either through hunger or by being hit by a car. They have no other choice.
If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
I really don't understand people committing suicide.Especially if they are still physically able. and are not some sort of prisoners (slavery etc) I think they don't consider all the opportunities they have yet. There is so many things they haven't experienced. Life is fucking wonderful, I find almost insulting when someone suicide while they are thousand of children in the world experiencing awful things and still smiling. I don't know, just "man up" and realize how life is beautiful and all the possibilities you have ahead of you. Maybe I'm just of a different kind, but fuck you have only one life :s
Again I'm talking about people still having their physical abilities (not paralyzed ans such) and not physically imprisoned.
On April 17 2012 14:44 Zerothegreat wrote: Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
Woah let me get this straight. In one sentence you proclaim "killing yourself is easy". Then in the very next sentence you say, "how can anyone know it is easy?" and then explain why it is not knowable. Good job sir.
On April 17 2012 15:26 Release wrote: If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
Well man I think the whole point of the suicide note it's to tell that special person why you did it, because I felt they needed an explanation, I wrote it for my 2 best friends, I wanted them to know that when you live in pain it's no real way to live and that I was sorry for leaving, I guess. =/, I was going to send it in e-mail rather than a letter though lol.
On April 17 2012 15:27 TanTzoR wrote: I really don't understand people committing suicide.Especially if they are still physically able. and are not some sort of prisoners (slavery etc) I think they don't consider all the opportunities they have yet. There is so many things they haven't experienced. Life is fucking wonderful, I find almost insulting when someone suicide while they are thousand of children in the world experiencing awful things and still smiling. I don't know, just "man up" and realize how life is beautiful and all the possibilities you have ahead of you. Maybe I'm just of a different kind, but fuck you have only one life :s
Again I'm talking about people still having their physical abilities (not paralyzed ans such) and not physically imprisoned.
"Life is fucking wonderful... thousands of children in the world experiencing awful things...". Does that not sound contradictory to you?
On April 17 2012 14:44 Zerothegreat wrote: Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
Woah let me get this straight. In one sentence you proclaim "killing yourself is easy". Then in the very next sentence you say, "how can anyone know it is easy?" and then explain why it is not knowable. Good job sir.
I meant to put "could be easy." Fast typing fail... Oh well.
On April 17 2012 15:27 TanTzoR wrote: I really don't understand people committing suicide.Especially if they are still physically able. and are not some sort of prisoners (slavery etc) I think they don't consider all the opportunities they have yet. There is so many things they haven't experienced. Life is fucking wonderful, I find almost insulting when someone suicide while they are thousand of children in the world experiencing awful things and still smiling. I don't know, just "man up" and realize how life is beautiful and all the possibilities you have ahead of you. Maybe I'm just of a different kind, but fuck you have only one life :s
Again I'm talking about people still having their physical abilities (not paralyzed ans such) and not physically imprisoned.
"Life is fucking wonderful... thousands of children in the world experiencing awful things...". Does that not sound contradictory to you?
Not at all, your life is wonderful. Their life suck. And even by sucking this hard they still enjoy the small parts to enjoy.
On April 17 2012 15:27 TanTzoR wrote: I really don't understand people committing suicide.Especially if they are still physically able. and are not some sort of prisoners (slavery etc) I think they don't consider all the opportunities they have yet. There is so many things they haven't experienced. Life is fucking wonderful, I find almost insulting when someone suicide while they are thousand of children in the world experiencing awful things and still smiling. I don't know, just "man up" and realize how life is beautiful and all the possibilities you have ahead of you. Maybe I'm just of a different kind, but fuck you have only one life :s
Again I'm talking about people still having their physical abilities (not paralyzed ans such) and not physically imprisoned.
"Life is fucking wonderful... thousands of children in the world experiencing awful things...". Does that not sound contradictory to you?
Not at all, your life is wonderful. Their life suck. And even by sucking this hard they still enjoy the small parts to enjoy.
Because they learned to enjoy the small parts and they were raised that way. To them, it doesn't suck. That's your view, not their's. People with "wonderful" lives tend to enjoy things different from what the others enjoy (often, but not necessarily, larger and more extravagant things).
On April 17 2012 15:26 Release wrote: If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
Yes, committing suicide is calling for attention. But who are you to say that attention isn't important for a human being? Have you ever been ignored by everyone you've ever wanted to talk to? Do you understand the drive that, through hopelessness and frustration, forces a person to take the final step to gaining the attention he or she needs? Humans are social animals, the need for interaction is as integral as the need to eat and drink.
On April 17 2012 15:14 Nevermind86 wrote: I was going to commit suicide last year. I had this horrible accident that left crippled for 7 months, I needed a surgery to heal the damage but my family didn't have the money, when finally the surgery was scheduled there was a chance that it wouldn't heal the damage, right there after so much pain I decided that that was no way to live. Maybe it was that before the accident my life was so good, all my friends really felt bad for me because they knew I had such a great life ahead and it was all ruined.
3 few days before the surgery knowing it was almost a certainty that I was going to be crippled for life I looked myself in the mirror and decided that if that was the case I would throw myself from the balcony of my aun'ts appartment in a 14th floor, I wrote a suicide note and then though about what was the last thing I would like to do before death, I had postponed reading 1984 for years, so I finally readed it, it is indeed a great book but I'm over emotional about it for obvious reasons.
I was so lucky though, the surgery was a complete succes, almost a miracle, and now even though I'm partially crippled it's deffinevitely not as bad. The desperation that comes with endless pain it's..., because you keep looking your past and see how great it all was and see the future that lies ahead where it's all gone.
I can say though that most people 'that just attemp it' are mostly calling for attention, I never really told my family and friends about my suicide plan, only my best friends knows about it... anyways someone posted that earlier, I think it's true, because people that are determined to commit suicide don't swallow 10 sleeping pills they fucking blow their brains out, or in my case think about jumping from a 14th floor. I was so convinced... you really need some courage, I understand why those japanese generals would suicide after a defeat in war because for them there was no pride in living after that, I saw no pride in living pitied by everybody. I guess since medicine keeps improving every year, maybe in the future with better surgeries and what not there won't be that many people in a situation like mine.
I particularly hated those people that keep telling you 'you are not a crippled but a special person', 'that doesn't stop you from being whatever you want in life, etc' it's the most horrible thing I ever heard, even today I hate those people with passion... because selling hope to someone that knows it's not there it's insulting, it's living in an alternate reality and a total lack of empathy... you end up wanting to suicide to not hear those comments again.
I don't know why but reading this made me think about the movie "Silent Warrior." It's a pretty cool movie check it out.
On April 17 2012 15:26 Release wrote: If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
Yes, committing suicide is calling for attention. But who are you to say that attention isn't important for a human being? Have you ever been ignored by everyone you've ever wanted to talk to? Do you understand the drive that, through hopelessness and frustration, forces a person to take the final step to gaining the attention he or she needs? Humans are social animals, the need for interaction is as integral as the need to eat and drink.
But they are not suicidal. They are pretending to commit suicide to achieve their goal, which is to get attention, not to commit suicide. I'm not saying attention isn't important, it is. But at the end of the day, they want to be alive.
On April 17 2012 15:26 Release wrote: If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
Yes, committing suicide is calling for attention. But who are you to say that attention isn't important for a human being? Have you ever been ignored by everyone you've ever wanted to talk to? Do you understand the drive that, through hopelessness and frustration, forces a person to take the final step to gaining the attention he or she needs? Humans are social animals, the need for interaction is as integral as the need to eat and drink.
On April 17 2012 15:27 TanTzoR wrote: I really don't understand people committing suicide.Especially if they are still physically able. and are not some sort of prisoners (slavery etc) I think they don't consider all the opportunities they have yet. There is so many things they haven't experienced. Life is fucking wonderful, I find almost insulting when someone suicide while they are thousand of children in the world experiencing awful things and still smiling. I don't know, just "man up" and realize how life is beautiful and all the possibilities you have ahead of you. Maybe I'm just of a different kind, but fuck you have only one life :s
Again I'm talking about people still having their physical abilities (not paralyzed ans such) and not physically imprisoned.
"Life is fucking wonderful... thousands of children in the world experiencing awful things...". Does that not sound contradictory to you?
Not at all, your life is wonderful. Their life suck. And even by sucking this hard they still enjoy the small parts to enjoy.
Because they learned to enjoy the small parts and they were raised that way. To them, it doesn't suck. That's your view, not their's. People with "wonderful" lives tend to enjoy things different from what the others enjoy (often, but not necessarily, larger and more extravagant things).
That's my point. Imagine you learn to enjoy the small parts, but you have huge parts. And I think that kid working and hungry thinks it sucks, he doesn't know how much it sucks because it seems normal to him but still he knows he's not experiencing something good. I feel like in western world people try to find ways to be unhappy. Like they are unhappy about something but won't do anything to fix it. Doesn't make sense to me. I'm young (19) and have experienced little (even though getting kicked out of the house at 15 is pretty annoying) but even the idea of how many things could be worse makes me smile.
On April 17 2012 15:44 Zerothegreat wrote: Life is choice you can choose to be a victim or anything else. ^_^
I agree. Why don't you choose to exercise some critical thinking.
Are you contributing anything to this thread or just looking to troll? You don't have to like my posts, but pretending that someone else is ignorant because we don't think the same way is actually making you look ignorant.
A funny fact when I was thinking about the 'best way to go' I though these:
1. Go in the bathtub, drink a bottle of wine, slice the wrists like the Ceasars did. Too dramatic, I would probably slice enough for blood but not enough to die. 2. Ask a friend to give me his gun. Given my cripple situation back then, he wouldn't have accepted lol. 3. Doing a sepukku with a knife, too painfull but shit I though that could make headlines on the BBC or something. 4. Swalloing pills. Too much of a pussy. 5. Going to a highway and jumping in front of a truck at 100 miles per hour. I would have ruined that guys dreams for quite some time. 6. Then I though jumping from the 14th floor... I always wanted to fly.
On April 17 2012 15:50 Nevermind86 wrote: A funny fact when I was thinking about the 'best way to go' I though these:
1. Go in the bathtub, drink a bottle of wine, slice the wrists like the Ceasars did. Too dramatic, I would probably slice enough for blood but not enough to die. 2. Ask a friend to give me his gun. Given my cripple situation back then, he wouldn't have accepted lol. 3. Doing a sepukku with a knife, too painfull but shit I though that could make headlines on the BBC or something. 4. Swalloing pills. Too much of a pussy. 5. Going to a highway and jumping in front of a truck at 100 miles per hour. I would have ruined that guys dreams for quite some time. 6. Then I though jumping from the 14th floor... I always wanted to fly.
As morbid as this might sound, I'd hate to go in a way where I would leave a mess for people to clean up... Just my preference though.
On April 17 2012 15:26 Release wrote: If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
Yes, committing suicide is calling for attention. But who are you to say that attention isn't important for a human being? Have you ever been ignored by everyone you've ever wanted to talk to? Do you understand the drive that, through hopelessness and frustration, forces a person to take the final step to gaining the attention he or she needs? Humans are social animals, the need for interaction is as integral as the need to eat and drink.
But they are not suicidal. They are pretending to commit suicide to achieve their goal, which is to get attention, not to commit suicide. I'm not saying attention isn't important, it is. But at the end of the day, they want to be alive.
That's one really dumb train of logic you have there. They killed themselves because in the end they want to be alive??
The other poster was talking about attention-seeking in terms of people publicizing their suicide attempt before they even commit it. These suicide notes on the other hand are from people already dead.
On April 17 2012 15:44 Zerothegreat wrote: Life is choice you can choose to be a victim or anything else. ^_^
I agree. Why don't you choose to exercise some critical thinking.
Are you contributing anything to this thread or just looking to troll? You don't have to like my posts, but pretending that someone else is ignorant because we don't think the same way is actually making you look ignorant.
So you've spent a good deal of time contemplating suicide and perhaps attempted it? If neither, then yes you are ignorant about the subject. Yet you have loads of advice to give and judgments to hand out.
On April 17 2012 15:44 Zerothegreat wrote: Life is choice you can choose to be a victim or anything else. ^_^
I agree. Why don't you choose to exercise some critical thinking.
Are you contributing anything to this thread or just looking to troll? You don't have to like my posts, but pretending that someone else is ignorant because we don't think the same way is actually making you look ignorant.
So you've spent a good deal of time contemplating suicide and perhaps attempted it? If neither, then yes you are ignorant about the subject. Yet you have loads of advice to give and judgments to hand out.
I have more experience than you know. But this thread isn't about me now is it? So reserve your judgements on me for a thread titled in my name. I'm discussing the topic from personal life experiences and the exact details of those experiences aren't for me to share with some random person on the internet. It's the reason we call them "personal."
On April 17 2012 15:44 Zerothegreat wrote: Life is choice you can choose to be a victim or anything else. ^_^
I agree. Why don't you choose to exercise some critical thinking.
Are you contributing anything to this thread or just looking to troll? You don't have to like my posts, but pretending that someone else is ignorant because we don't think the same way is actually making you look ignorant.
So you've spent a good deal of time contemplating suicide and perhaps attempted it? If neither, then yes you are ignorant about the subject. Yet you have loads of advice to give and judgments to hand out.
I have more experience than you know. But this thread isn't about me now is it? So reserve your judgements on me for a thread titled in my name. I'm discussing the topic from personal life experiences and the exact details of those experiences aren't for me to share with some random person on the internet. It's the reason we call them "personal."
Then please extend others the same courtesy and not label them cowards, etc., if you do not know their life circumstances (even then, you cannot see inside their mind).
On April 17 2012 15:44 Zerothegreat wrote: Life is choice you can choose to be a victim or anything else. ^_^
I agree. Why don't you choose to exercise some critical thinking.
Are you contributing anything to this thread or just looking to troll? You don't have to like my posts, but pretending that someone else is ignorant because we don't think the same way is actually making you look ignorant.
So you've spent a good deal of time contemplating suicide and perhaps attempted it? If neither, then yes you are ignorant about the subject. Yet you have loads of advice to give and judgments to hand out.
I have more experience than you know. But this thread isn't about me now is it? So reserve your judgements on me for a thread titled in my name. I'm discussing the topic from personal life experiences and the exact details of those experiences aren't for me to share with some random person on the internet. It's the reason we call them "personal."
Then please extend others the same courtesy and not label them cowards, etc., if you do not know their life circumstances.
The thread is about them, so I will post my opinion about them. You can clearly see reading the letters that a lot of them were not in their right mind. I don't think all of them were cowardly to do it, I think some were mentally unstable. My cowardly statement is based on someone approached with a serious situation and chose to avoid it by killing themselves instead of taking the long hard road to the end. The reasons are endless but some are cowardly, yes.
On April 17 2012 15:26 Release wrote: If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
Yes, committing suicide is calling for attention. But who are you to say that attention isn't important for a human being? Have you ever been ignored by everyone you've ever wanted to talk to? Do you understand the drive that, through hopelessness and frustration, forces a person to take the final step to gaining the attention he or she needs? Humans are social animals, the need for interaction is as integral as the need to eat and drink.
But they are not suicidal. They are pretending to commit suicide to achieve their goal, which is to get attention, not to commit suicide. I'm not saying attention isn't important, it is. But at the end of the day, they want to be alive.
That's one really dumb train of logic you have there. They killed themselves because in the end they want to be alive??
The other poster was talking about attention-seeking in terms of people publicizing their suicide attempt before they even commit it. These suicide notes on the other hand are from people already dead.
If they are (actually dead), then they probably cried for attention by pretending to be suicidal, didn't get it, THEN actually became suicidal.
I don't understand how people can label someone a coward because they choose to end their own life. I think this says it best:
Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder. Arnold J. Toynbee
People only really have two choices throughout their existence: life or death.
To choose life is the bolder choice perhaps, but to choose death is equally valid. And I don't think anyone can call personal choice cowardice. However, for someone who merely dabbles in thoughts of death, the pain inflicted on loved ones is something to think about. They will never be the same. Ever.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
On April 17 2012 15:26 Release wrote: If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
Yes, committing suicide is calling for attention. But who are you to say that attention isn't important for a human being? Have you ever been ignored by everyone you've ever wanted to talk to? Do you understand the drive that, through hopelessness and frustration, forces a person to take the final step to gaining the attention he or she needs? Humans are social animals, the need for interaction is as integral as the need to eat and drink.
But they are not suicidal. They are pretending to commit suicide to achieve their goal, which is to get attention, not to commit suicide. I'm not saying attention isn't important, it is. But at the end of the day, they want to be alive.
I'm saying this from personal experience. I have and still do contemplate suicide. Why? The best way to describe it would be revenge. When people do shitty things to you, you can't do anything about it. In our world today, we are only beginning to realize that psychological pain is just as real as physical pain. If someone harms you psychologically, you can't harm them physically, or else something like school shootings occur. The one who commits the physical attack always gets the most animosity from society. Something like committing suicide does two things. It elicits sympathy from society. They all begin to question themselves on how they could have and should have helped you. And it makes people feel guilty. This guilt is what people want. I'm probably going off topic, I apologize. This is just an issue that I really take personally.
On April 17 2012 15:26 Release wrote: If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
Yes, committing suicide is calling for attention. But who are you to say that attention isn't important for a human being? Have you ever been ignored by everyone you've ever wanted to talk to? Do you understand the drive that, through hopelessness and frustration, forces a person to take the final step to gaining the attention he or she needs? Humans are social animals, the need for interaction is as integral as the need to eat and drink.
But they are not suicidal. They are pretending to commit suicide to achieve their goal, which is to get attention, not to commit suicide. I'm not saying attention isn't important, it is. But at the end of the day, they want to be alive.
I'm saying this from personal experience. I have and still do contemplate suicide. Why? The best way to describe it would be revenge. When people do shitty things to you, you can't do anything about it. In our world today, we are only beginning to realize that psychological pain is just as real as physical pain. If someone harms you psychologically, you can't harm them physically, or else something like school shootings occur. The one who commits the physical attack always gets the most animosity from society. Something like committing suicide does two things. It elicits sympathy from society. They all begin to question themselves on how they could have and should have helped you. And it makes people feel guilty. This guilt is what people want. I'm probably going off topic, I apologize. This is just an issue that I really take personally.
Do you publicize you suicide? If you say yes, and then don't kill yourself, then probably not suicidal but wanting attention. If you say yes, and do kill yourself, why would you publicize it in the first place? When you're dead, the people around you don't effect you anymore. You don't get to see their reactions. If you say no, and do kill yourself, then you were suicidal If you say no, but contemplate it, then you are probably suicidal, although you have to contemplate suicide and not some fantasy scheme of note writing.
I really don't want to be sexist here so i'll spoiler what i say next: + Show Spoiler +
[QUOTE]WebMDWomen try suicide more often, but men are 4 times more likely to die from a suicide attempt. This is a prime example of "do you really want to kill yourself? or do you just want attention?"
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
On April 17 2012 15:26 Release wrote: If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
Yes, committing suicide is calling for attention. But who are you to say that attention isn't important for a human being? Have you ever been ignored by everyone you've ever wanted to talk to? Do you understand the drive that, through hopelessness and frustration, forces a person to take the final step to gaining the attention he or she needs? Humans are social animals, the need for interaction is as integral as the need to eat and drink.
But they are not suicidal. They are pretending to commit suicide to achieve their goal, which is to get attention, not to commit suicide. I'm not saying attention isn't important, it is. But at the end of the day, they want to be alive.
I'm saying this from personal experience. I have and still do contemplate suicide. Why? The best way to describe it would be revenge. When people do shitty things to you, you can't do anything about it. In our world today, we are only beginning to realize that psychological pain is just as real as physical pain. If someone harms you psychologically, you can't harm them physically, or else something like school shootings occur. The one who commits the physical attack always gets the most animosity from society. Something like committing suicide does two things. It elicits sympathy from society. They all begin to question themselves on how they could have and should have helped you. And it makes people feel guilty. This guilt is what people want. I'm probably going off topic, I apologize. This is just an issue that I really take personally.
Pardon if I come off a wrong way here. There are a lot of shitty people in the world, I don't think killing yourself to get revenge on a couple is worth it. In fact, I think going on with life and rising above them is a better revenge. Eventually they will forget anyways.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
Well, it goes both ways: Some people are suicidal, but do it by researching methods and choosing one that suits their needs. Others will do something wreckless in the hope that they die. I believe that the prior is more suicidal than the latter.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
On June 19 2006 06:36 venusian.kohai wrote: people suiciding are so egocentric, they all think the world revolves around them.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
If you cannot live your life for yourself, then what's the point. I find infinitely more selfish the people that want to see you live so they can visit you once a year, even though your life really sucks, you become an antiquity or a strange object that can talk back about better days. Suicide takes a lot of fucking courage.
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
You have a point. In old times, "To fall on one's sword" was considered an honorable death. And how can one forget the Kamikaze attacks that weren't very long ago. I guess it's all based on one's perception and outlook on suicide though. Now days, you are pretty much taught that it is wrong.
There's way too much misinformation in this thread. Before I begin, anyone who feels that they are considering suicide should publicize it. Inform your parents, your significant other, a friend, or the one nice teacher you have at school. Tell someone and seek help.
First, suicide that is caused by depression or MDD (Major depressive disorder) is hard. The reason that it is hard is that the amount of lethargy caused by the disorder itself makes many people so disinterested in life in general that even the action of suicide appears pointless. Why do the work of killing yourself if there is no point in doing *anything*. This is why many SSRI anti-depressents come with a risk of suicide: since SSRI's usually take around a month for enough of the dose to be present to fight depression the medicine also comes with a light upper. This upper can cause people to, in some cases, have the energy that they need to carry through with suicide.
Second, bipolar disorder is typically characterized by phases of mania that last multiple days. I do know that the medical listing for bipoloar disorder is considering a new classification that will better take into account people who switch multiple times in a day, but, in general, if you're trying to diagnose yourself with this, you probably don't have it. Further, the reason that bipolar disorder is dangerous (and carries roughly double the suicide rate of people who have been diagnosed with mdd - 10-20%) is because it causes mixed states wherein a person is mentally depressed by is moving into a manic state: they have the energy to commit suicide.
Third, to say that people commit or threaten suicide in order to get attention is irrelevant and naive. Why would you chastise and insult people who are actually, and likely, seeking legitimate help. While I will not detail the most successful and generally painless methods of suicide here, I will say that they are not the obvious choices. Many people who deal with long term depression spend a lot of time figuring these things out and getting things together. I cannot believe that there is a thread full of people here who are basically insulting them. Quite frankly, anyone that is researching suicide, or is telling you that they want to kill themselves (especially if this occurs outside of a particularly sudden even - like a verbal fight in a couple) then whether or not it is "for attention" is completely irrelevant.
Fourth, yes suicide does happen, at times, as a spontaneous decision. This is not the majority of cases. While it may seem to some to be the more (as was even implied before) "manly" method, this is irrelevant. These types of spontaneous decisions are the ones which we, societally, are best able to work to prevent and limit.
TL;DR this thread is filled with highly under-educated speculation about suicide, major depressive disorder, and bipolar disorder. If you need help, get help. If you think people threaten suicide "just to get attention" just remember that you'll look like a serious fucking asshole when you're wrong. And you're wrong in many cases.
On April 17 2012 14:15 Zerothegreat wrote: [quote]
Courage?
I think the struggle to keep going, pushing yourself, and hoping to one day persevere takes way more courage. Suicide is cowardice. It is taking the easy way out of your problems. Think about it!
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
You have a point. In old times, "To fall on one's sword" was considered an honorable death. And how can one forget the Kamikaze attacks that weren't very long ago. I guess it's all based on one's perception and outlook on suicide though. Now days, you are pretty much taught that it is wrong.
That's because one of the most fundamental capitalist myths is "if you work hard enough, you can achieve anything", which is also means "if you don't have what you want, you're not working hard enough", which is the demented little half-sister of "if you're unhappy with your lot in life, suck it up and work harder", which is, disturbingly, what a lot of people have posted here saying.
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
You have a point. In old times, "To fall on one's sword" was considered an honorable death. And how can one forget the Kamikaze attacks that weren't very long ago. I guess it's all based on one's perception and outlook on suicide though. Now days, you are pretty much taught that it is wrong.
That's because one of the most fundamental capitalist myths is "if you work hard enough, you can achieve anything", which is also means "if you don't have what you want, you're not working hard enough", which is the demented little half-sister of "if you're unhappy with your lot in life, suck it up and work harder", which is, disturbingly, what a lot of people have posted here saying.
Oh but you're missing the best flaw of this myth: the idea that those who have many things, earned those things.
On April 17 2012 00:57 W0L0L0 wrote: So much ragequit, even irl.
Even if this is said in jest, and can be taken "as a joke", this is even some ways true.
If you do commit suicide, I do think that you're wrong. There is so much to live for, no matter where you are in life. There will always be.
What you're literally saying here is that people shouldn't commit suicide because you think life is worth living. All that you have done is communicate that you (1) have no idea how people who are seriously contemplating suicide feel and (2) decided that despite your lack of experience/understanding you can judge them.
On April 17 2012 15:26 Release wrote: If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
Yes, committing suicide is calling for attention. But who are you to say that attention isn't important for a human being? Have you ever been ignored by everyone you've ever wanted to talk to? Do you understand the drive that, through hopelessness and frustration, forces a person to take the final step to gaining the attention he or she needs? Humans are social animals, the need for interaction is as integral as the need to eat and drink.
But they are not suicidal. They are pretending to commit suicide to achieve their goal, which is to get attention, not to commit suicide. I'm not saying attention isn't important, it is. But at the end of the day, they want to be alive.
That's one really dumb train of logic you have there. They killed themselves because in the end they want to be alive??
The other poster was talking about attention-seeking in terms of people publicizing their suicide attempt before they even commit it. These suicide notes on the other hand are from people already dead.
If they are (actually dead), then they probably cried for attention by pretending to be suicidal, didn't get it, THEN actually became suicidal.
Persevere towards what? Majority of people have goals in life that the thought of accomplishing gives them pleasure. To a suicidal person I think there is no goal in this world that offers the prospect of pleasure to their mind. Therefore the goal becomes death. They are "pushing themselves and persevering" towards their goal of being dead. You seem to assume that killing yourself is easy, yet obviously it's something you've never succeeded at and possibly never even attempted. How can you know something is easy if you've never done it yourself?
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
You have a point. In old times, "To fall on one's sword" was considered an honorable death. And how can one forget the Kamikaze attacks that weren't very long ago. I guess it's all based on one's perception and outlook on suicide though. Now days, you are pretty much taught that it is wrong.
That's because one of the most fundamental capitalist myths is "if you work hard enough, you can achieve anything", which is also means "if you don't have what you want, you're not working hard enough", which is the demented little half-sister of "if you're unhappy with your lot in life, suck it up and work harder", which is, disturbingly, what a lot of people have posted here saying.
It's not just capitalist, I'd say religion plays a big part in it too. Religion is the reason a lot of people choose to live or die. Remember the 9/11 attacks, a suicidal attack for a religious cause. Also, Christians are taught that committing suicide is a great sin.
Personally, I think it is important to believe in something and always find a reason to live. A favorite quote of mine from the movie "Don Juan DeMarco" : "There are only four questions of value in life, Don Octavio. What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for, and what is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same – only love."
On April 17 2012 15:26 Release wrote: If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
Yes, committing suicide is calling for attention. But who are you to say that attention isn't important for a human being? Have you ever been ignored by everyone you've ever wanted to talk to? Do you understand the drive that, through hopelessness and frustration, forces a person to take the final step to gaining the attention he or she needs? Humans are social animals, the need for interaction is as integral as the need to eat and drink.
But they are not suicidal. They are pretending to commit suicide to achieve their goal, which is to get attention, not to commit suicide. I'm not saying attention isn't important, it is. But at the end of the day, they want to be alive.
That's one really dumb train of logic you have there. They killed themselves because in the end they want to be alive??
The other poster was talking about attention-seeking in terms of people publicizing their suicide attempt before they even commit it. These suicide notes on the other hand are from people already dead.
If they are (actually dead), then they probably cried for attention by pretending to be suicidal, didn't get it, THEN actually became suicidal.
A lot of assumptions you have there.
If by "assumptions" you mean he has succinctly pointed out the idiocy of calling something a "cry for attention", then okay... I guess he made an assumption. All the time all kinds of groups of people educate people that if they are contemplating suicide they should make it known and seek help. Then there are lots of assholes like you who insult them and chastise them as just "trying to get attention". Maybe they actually need attention and help so that they don't kill themselves. Clearly, by your logic, they should just keep quiet.
On April 17 2012 14:44 Zerothegreat wrote: [quote]
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
You have a point. In old times, "To fall on one's sword" was considered an honorable death. And how can one forget the Kamikaze attacks that weren't very long ago. I guess it's all based on one's perception and outlook on suicide though. Now days, you are pretty much taught that it is wrong.
That's because one of the most fundamental capitalist myths is "if you work hard enough, you can achieve anything", which is also means "if you don't have what you want, you're not working hard enough", which is the demented little half-sister of "if you're unhappy with your lot in life, suck it up and work harder", which is, disturbingly, what a lot of people have posted here saying.
Oh but you're missing the best flaw of this myth: the idea that those who have many things, earned those things.
I have a casual theory that the whole mental healthcare discipline exists to stave off the domino effect of depression (depression leading to suicide, which leads to depression in others, which leads to their suicide), which could potentially cause the capitalist model to fail. And, yes, I appreciate the irony that this may make me seem paranoid. I don't know if I really believe this, but I do think contemporary psychology and psychiatry (separate from neuroscience) is mostly full of crap.
On April 17 2012 14:44 Zerothegreat wrote: [quote]
Death is inevitable, we will all get there one day it isn't really a goal. And killing yourself is easy depending on how you do it and the situation in which you do it in. And how can anyone know if it is easy? Anyone that has done it is dead and can't tell you.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
You have a point. In old times, "To fall on one's sword" was considered an honorable death. And how can one forget the Kamikaze attacks that weren't very long ago. I guess it's all based on one's perception and outlook on suicide though. Now days, you are pretty much taught that it is wrong.
That's because one of the most fundamental capitalist myths is "if you work hard enough, you can achieve anything", which is also means "if you don't have what you want, you're not working hard enough", which is the demented little half-sister of "if you're unhappy with your lot in life, suck it up and work harder", which is, disturbingly, what a lot of people have posted here saying.
It's not just capitalist, I'd say religion plays a big part in it too. Religion is the reason a lot of people choose to live or die. Remember the 9/11 attacks, a suicidal attack for a religious cause. Also, Christians are taught that committing suicide is a great sin.
Personally, I think it is important to believe in something and always find a reason to live. A favorite quote of mine from the movie "Don Juan DeMarco" : "There are only four questions of value in life, Don Octavio. What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for, and what is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same – only love."
Uhhhh... In saying "It's not just capitalist, I'd say religion..." you move this poster's argument outside of the context that it was operating in. That particular poster efficiently succeeded at isolating a major myth that has empowered many people's responses in this thread. Religion itself is of relatively little importance. It's only ability to impact people's decisions in regards to suicide (especially in cases of mental health issues) lies in the ultimate threat of hell. Thus religion is incapable of providing an ultimate consolation and succeeds, realistically, only in the threat of eternal torture. Ironically, many Christians still kill themselves. This should, just barely, give you an idea of how shitty some people feel: they would prefer an eternity in hell to a single life on this earth.
tl;dr Your critique of the poster you dealt with does not work with his argument in any way.
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
You have a point. In old times, "To fall on one's sword" was considered an honorable death. And how can one forget the Kamikaze attacks that weren't very long ago. I guess it's all based on one's perception and outlook on suicide though. Now days, you are pretty much taught that it is wrong.
That's because one of the most fundamental capitalist myths is "if you work hard enough, you can achieve anything", which is also means "if you don't have what you want, you're not working hard enough", which is the demented little half-sister of "if you're unhappy with your lot in life, suck it up and work harder", which is, disturbingly, what a lot of people have posted here saying.
Oh but you're missing the best flaw of this myth: the idea that those who have many things, earned those things.
I have a casual theory that the whole mental healthcare discipline exists to stave off the domino effect of depression (depression leading to suicide, which leads to depression in others, which leads to their suicide), which could potentially cause the capitalist model to fail. And, yes, I appreciate the irony that this may make me seem paranoid. I don't know if I really believe this, but I do think contemporary psychology and psychiatry (separate from neuroscience) is mostly full of crap.
Still not seeing what any of this has to do with the capitalist model. A communist or post-scarcity model would still be vulnerable to everybody committing suicide.
On April 17 2012 15:13 Zerothegreat wrote: [quote]
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
You have a point. In old times, "To fall on one's sword" was considered an honorable death. And how can one forget the Kamikaze attacks that weren't very long ago. I guess it's all based on one's perception and outlook on suicide though. Now days, you are pretty much taught that it is wrong.
That's because one of the most fundamental capitalist myths is "if you work hard enough, you can achieve anything", which is also means "if you don't have what you want, you're not working hard enough", which is the demented little half-sister of "if you're unhappy with your lot in life, suck it up and work harder", which is, disturbingly, what a lot of people have posted here saying.
Oh but you're missing the best flaw of this myth: the idea that those who have many things, earned those things.
I have a casual theory that the whole mental healthcare discipline exists to stave off the domino effect of depression (depression leading to suicide, which leads to depression in others, which leads to their suicide), which could potentially cause the capitalist model to fail. And, yes, I appreciate the irony that this may make me seem paranoid. I don't know if I really believe this, but I do think contemporary psychology and psychiatry (separate from neuroscience) is mostly full of crap.
Still not seeing what any of this has to do with the capitalist model. A communist or post-scarcity model would still be vulnerable to everybody committing suicide.
Just that capitalism is the dominant economic model today, and of the last thousand years, and that it is superbly hegemonic and self-perpetuating, and making an argument about a communist society has no relevance to me.
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
You have a point. In old times, "To fall on one's sword" was considered an honorable death. And how can one forget the Kamikaze attacks that weren't very long ago. I guess it's all based on one's perception and outlook on suicide though. Now days, you are pretty much taught that it is wrong.
That's because one of the most fundamental capitalist myths is "if you work hard enough, you can achieve anything", which is also means "if you don't have what you want, you're not working hard enough", which is the demented little half-sister of "if you're unhappy with your lot in life, suck it up and work harder", which is, disturbingly, what a lot of people have posted here saying.
Oh but you're missing the best flaw of this myth: the idea that those who have many things, earned those things.
I have a casual theory that the whole mental healthcare discipline exists to stave off the domino effect of depression (depression leading to suicide, which leads to depression in others, which leads to their suicide), which could potentially cause the capitalist model to fail. And, yes, I appreciate the irony that this may make me seem paranoid. I don't know if I really believe this, but I do think contemporary psychology and psychiatry (separate from neuroscience) is mostly full of crap.
Still not seeing what any of this has to do with the capitalist model. A communist or post-scarcity model would still be vulnerable to everybody committing suicide.
Just that capitalism is the dominant economic model today, and of the last thousand years, and that it is superbly hegemonic and self-perpetuating, and making an argument about a communist society has no relevance to me.
You should be more careful. I do not think it is safe to say that capitalism has been the dominant economic model for the last thousand years.
Also, it is ironic that at the exact moment that you are working with myths of identity - concepts which rely upon sociological, psychological, historical, and literary ideas/studies - you simultaneously find at least the science of psychology fraudulent. Hard to have both sides of that coin successfully!
At risk of coming off the wrong way ... have you tried killing yourself? I suspect if you had, you wouldn't say it was "easy". Sure, the people who succeeded are dead, but there are plenty of people who have attempted suicide at some point in their lives who will tell you that it's not easy.
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
You have a point. In old times, "To fall on one's sword" was considered an honorable death. And how can one forget the Kamikaze attacks that weren't very long ago. I guess it's all based on one's perception and outlook on suicide though. Now days, you are pretty much taught that it is wrong.
That's because one of the most fundamental capitalist myths is "if you work hard enough, you can achieve anything", which is also means "if you don't have what you want, you're not working hard enough", which is the demented little half-sister of "if you're unhappy with your lot in life, suck it up and work harder", which is, disturbingly, what a lot of people have posted here saying.
It's not just capitalist, I'd say religion plays a big part in it too. Religion is the reason a lot of people choose to live or die. Remember the 9/11 attacks, a suicidal attack for a religious cause. Also, Christians are taught that committing suicide is a great sin.
Personally, I think it is important to believe in something and always find a reason to live. A favorite quote of mine from the movie "Don Juan DeMarco" : "There are only four questions of value in life, Don Octavio. What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for, and what is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same – only love."
Uhhhh... In saying "It's not just capitalist, I'd say religion..." you move this poster's argument outside of the context that it was operating in. That particular poster efficiently succeeded at isolating a major myth that has empowered many people's responses in this thread. Religion itself is of relatively little importance. It's only ability to impact people's decisions in regards to suicide (especially in cases of mental health issues) lies in the ultimate threat of hell. Thus religion is incapable of providing an ultimate consolation and succeeds, realistically, only in the threat of eternal torture. Ironically, many Christians still kill themselves. This should, just barely, give you an idea of how shitty some people feel: they would prefer an eternity in hell to a single life on this earth.
tl;dr Your critique of the poster you dealt with does not work with his argument in any way.
Not all the countries are capitalistic. I was more leaning toward the idea how some suicides are from religion extremists.
On April 17 2012 15:13 Zerothegreat wrote: [quote]
I would suspect people that had the desire to live would find it very hard. But those who don't want to live will find it pretty easy. If you really wanted to kill yourself there are so many easy methods to do so these days.
Edit: I was going to go into detail to answer your question on if I tried or not. But writing it and posting it here just feels "wrong." Going into those details make me feel disturbed. :O
Ambiguous answer to the rhetorical question aside, the logistics of committing suicide successfully are reasonably complicated on a number of levels. Firstly, society is set up to keep us safe. We put fences around dangerous sites, we put voltage limits on domestic power supplies, we flag purchases of unusual volumes of medication, we have gun control (certain countries excepted). Significantly, there is also an immense amount of pressure to censor information that could make it easier for people to "harm themselves". There's an ongoing ideological battle in journalistic discourse about reporting suicides and if that encourages other people to attempt it. No one wants to be responsible for another person killing themselves, so even on the internet, it can be difficult to find the information that would help you in your plans. Secondly, we're culturally, and probably biologically, conditioned to keep ourselves alive. We look both ways before crossing the street, we put pressure on open wounds, etc. Reflexes and instincts are, almost by definition overwhelming, and difficult to subvert, particularly in moments of high stress. Thirdly, the human body is actually kind of a hard thing to kill, particularly when it's your own. Pain is a powerful motivator. Fear of pain is just as powerful, and people with suicidal ideation, being in pain, are desperate to not experience any more, but there are very, very few ways to kill yourself painlessly, and most methods of suicide, if failed, carry a high risk of living with more pain (mental, physical, social) or even disability.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
You have a point. In old times, "To fall on one's sword" was considered an honorable death. And how can one forget the Kamikaze attacks that weren't very long ago. I guess it's all based on one's perception and outlook on suicide though. Now days, you are pretty much taught that it is wrong.
That's because one of the most fundamental capitalist myths is "if you work hard enough, you can achieve anything", which is also means "if you don't have what you want, you're not working hard enough", which is the demented little half-sister of "if you're unhappy with your lot in life, suck it up and work harder", which is, disturbingly, what a lot of people have posted here saying.
It's not just capitalist, I'd say religion plays a big part in it too. Religion is the reason a lot of people choose to live or die. Remember the 9/11 attacks, a suicidal attack for a religious cause. Also, Christians are taught that committing suicide is a great sin.
Personally, I think it is important to believe in something and always find a reason to live. A favorite quote of mine from the movie "Don Juan DeMarco" : "There are only four questions of value in life, Don Octavio. What is sacred? Of what is the spirit made? What is worth living for, and what is worth dying for? The answer to each is the same – only love."
Uhhhh... In saying "It's not just capitalist, I'd say religion..." you move this poster's argument outside of the context that it was operating in. That particular poster efficiently succeeded at isolating a major myth that has empowered many people's responses in this thread. Religion itself is of relatively little importance. It's only ability to impact people's decisions in regards to suicide (especially in cases of mental health issues) lies in the ultimate threat of hell. Thus religion is incapable of providing an ultimate consolation and succeeds, realistically, only in the threat of eternal torture. Ironically, many Christians still kill themselves. This should, just barely, give you an idea of how shitty some people feel: they would prefer an eternity in hell to a single life on this earth.
tl;dr Your critique of the poster you dealt with does not work with his argument in any way.
Not all the countries are capitalistic. I was more leaning toward the idea how some suicides are from religion extremists.
Yes but in citing a particular person you entered into a specific conversation in this thread. When you did so you failed to actually make a claim inside of that discussion whatsoever. Instead you cited someone and used their points as a springboard to talk about something completely different. Sure you can do this I guess, but it is important then that you emphasize your thesis/claim far more clearly than usual. Otherwise your post simply looks like a collection of random claims thrown together which do little if any work.
Well said. This is why whenever I hear someone say "suicide is easy" I figure they must not have seriously thought about it.
And yet the number of suicides are very high. Especially in Japan as someone has mentioned earlier in the thread.
You really want to play the numbers game? The "number of suicides is high" means what, exactly? High per capita? Compared to the number of attempted suicides? Compared to the number of people suffering from mental illness? What about the attempts that are never reported? What about deaths that are suicide but are not pronounced suicide by the coroner, and vice versa? What about, as I mentioned, the problematic relationship between suicide and journalism/the media?
Japanese culture has had a terribly interesting relationship with suicide, going back thousands of years, in which I believe - and I have no background in Japanese history - suicide was not considered shameful, certainly not in the way that contemporary Western culture continues to consider it.
You have a point. In old times, "To fall on one's sword" was considered an honorable death. And how can one forget the Kamikaze attacks that weren't very long ago. I guess it's all based on one's perception and outlook on suicide though. Now days, you are pretty much taught that it is wrong.
That's because one of the most fundamental capitalist myths is "if you work hard enough, you can achieve anything", which is also means "if you don't have what you want, you're not working hard enough", which is the demented little half-sister of "if you're unhappy with your lot in life, suck it up and work harder", which is, disturbingly, what a lot of people have posted here saying.
Oh but you're missing the best flaw of this myth: the idea that those who have many things, earned those things.
I have a casual theory that the whole mental healthcare discipline exists to stave off the domino effect of depression (depression leading to suicide, which leads to depression in others, which leads to their suicide), which could potentially cause the capitalist model to fail. And, yes, I appreciate the irony that this may make me seem paranoid. I don't know if I really believe this, but I do think contemporary psychology and psychiatry (separate from neuroscience) is mostly full of crap.
Still not seeing what any of this has to do with the capitalist model. A communist or post-scarcity model would still be vulnerable to everybody committing suicide.
Just that capitalism is the dominant economic model today, and of the last thousand years, and that it is superbly hegemonic and self-perpetuating, and making an argument about a communist society has no relevance to me.
You should be more careful. I do not think it is safe to say that capitalism has been the dominant economic model for the last thousand years.
Also, it is ironic that at the exact moment that you are working with myths of identity - concepts which rely upon sociological, psychological, historical, and literary ideas/studies - you simultaneously find at least the science of psychology fraudulent. Hard to have both sides of that coin successfully!
I find the practice of psychology "fraudulent" (though I wouldn't have used that word), I find science of psychology and neuroscience interesting.
On April 17 2012 15:26 Release wrote: If people actually want to kill themselves, they won't leave a note. That takes too much time. People who actually want to kill themselves spend time researching how and what is the best way; things like where to shoot for the highest fatality rate, where to stab, where to jump, etc, etc. Anyone who publicizes their suicide is not suicidal, but rather, is "calling for attention" -Nevermind86 (couldn't have said it better myself).
Yes, committing suicide is calling for attention. But who are you to say that attention isn't important for a human being? Have you ever been ignored by everyone you've ever wanted to talk to? Do you understand the drive that, through hopelessness and frustration, forces a person to take the final step to gaining the attention he or she needs? Humans are social animals, the need for interaction is as integral as the need to eat and drink.
But they are not suicidal. They are pretending to commit suicide to achieve their goal, which is to get attention, not to commit suicide. I'm not saying attention isn't important, it is. But at the end of the day, they want to be alive.
I'm saying this from personal experience. I have and still do contemplate suicide. Why? The best way to describe it would be revenge. When people do shitty things to you, you can't do anything about it. In our world today, we are only beginning to realize that psychological pain is just as real as physical pain. If someone harms you psychologically, you can't harm them physically, or else something like school shootings occur. The one who commits the physical attack always gets the most animosity from society. Something like committing suicide does two things. It elicits sympathy from society. They all begin to question themselves on how they could have and should have helped you. And it makes people feel guilty. This guilt is what people want. I'm probably going off topic, I apologize. This is just an issue that I really take personally.
Your reason would be example of those cases where the person attempting suicide is just a whiny hysterical teenager that needs to grow up.
On April 17 2012 20:23 Thylacine wrote: That was quite a depressing read.
I agree 100%. I dont know (maybe because my life is not miserable imho) what makes people throw away their own life. Still it makes me sad to read their last words / letters...
On April 17 2012 17:09 Plexa wrote: Speaking of psychology, I find the most interesting part of this thread is the contrast between posts in 2006 and posts in 2012
Yeah definitely, I mean I personally still feel 2012 still has too many people lacking any empathy or understanding, but 2006 is just on another level.
Remember what I told you and always respect, protect and obey your mother and always remember that I love you so much. I am going to leave you forever because I am too sick to go on. God bless you my Son and when your time comes to go to Heaven you will find your ole Pappy waiting for you.
Daddy
if this guy believes in heaven, he will not be the one that goes there. Suicide in Christianity is the greatest sin one can commit.
Remember what I told you and always respect, protect and obey your mother and always remember that I love you so much. I am going to leave you forever because I am too sick to go on. God bless you my Son and when your time comes to go to Heaven you will find your ole Pappy waiting for you.
Daddy
if this guy believes in heaven, he will not be the one that goes there. Suicide in Christianity is the greatest sin one can commit.
Not to start any sort of argument (because honestly I don't care), but that is an ancient, dogmatic form of Catholicism where suicide is "the greatest sin," in addition to being a traitor/using people to your advantage (hmmm I wonder where they got this from?) Most present day Protestant Christians are in agreement that any "sin" (that which separates you from God) is just that, a sin...whether it be stealing a bag of chips from the store, or taking your life or the life of another.
Also, on a related topic, my biggest fear in life is being named in a suicide letter (as part of the cause) because I made some offhand comment years ago that stuck with them, or whatever. Anyone else know what I'm talking about?
"These suicide notes were gathered at the coroners' offices by a suicidologist/psychiatrist who asked to be anonymous
How do these notes not fall under the rule that doctors and such should keep client information private? Did the one who commited suicide give permission to make these notes public? While interesting in a twisted way to read these notes i feel it is not realy apropiate. To extensivly discuss and comment such notes on a forum is bad taste. The intention of this thread might have been good but when i read the whole thread it somehow does not look right to me.
On April 18 2012 09:14 Rassy wrote: "These suicide notes were gathered at the coroners' offices by a suicidologist/psychiatrist who asked to be anonymous
How do these notes not fall under the rule that doctors and such should keep client information private? Did the one who commited suicide give permission to make these notes public? While interesting in a twisted way to read these notes i feel it is not realy apropiate. To extensivly discuss and comment such notes on a forum is bad taste. The intention of this thread might have been good but when i read the whole thread it somehow does not look right to me.
What is this post? not apropriate? if we could only read the apropriate things then the world would be a pretty boring place.
On April 18 2012 09:14 Rassy wrote: "These suicide notes were gathered at the coroners' offices by a suicidologist/psychiatrist who asked to be anonymous
How do these notes not fall under the rule that doctors and such should keep client information private? Did the one who commited suicide give permission to make these notes public? While interesting in a twisted way to read these notes i feel it is not realy apropiate. To extensivly discuss and comment such notes on a forum is bad taste. The intention of this thread might have been good but when i read the whole thread it somehow does not look right to me.
Please tell us what is right to you so we'll all know what we can talk about and what not.
He edited identifying details out of the compiled manuscript, and we changed the names.
This should answer your question (the next sentence in the post you didn't fully read). If bob koober dies and tells marry loober in a suicide note that he hates her guts, i don't see why the psychiatrist couldn't tell people that roger died and said in his note that he hated isabel.
On April 18 2012 09:14 Rassy wrote: "These suicide notes were gathered at the coroners' offices by a suicidologist/psychiatrist who asked to be anonymous
How do these notes not fall under the rule that doctors and such should keep client information private? Did the one who commited suicide give permission to make these notes public? While interesting in a twisted way to read these notes i feel it is not realy apropiate. To extensivly discuss and comment such notes on a forum is bad taste. The intention of this thread might have been good but when i read the whole thread it somehow does not look right to me.
Unless they were specifically addressed to the doctor or psychologist, I don't think it falls under doctor/patient confidentiality. Sounds like they were collected as evidence from the scene, and a psychiatrist compiled the collection.
Also might be worth noting that doctor/patient confidentiality is not all encompassing. Doctors are allowed (and, in some cases, obliged) to reveal confidential medical information to a third party if a) the patient signs it off, b) the doctor has reason to believe you're going to harm yourself, c) the doctor has reason to think you're going to harm someone else. Which I think is actually discouraging to a lot of people who might go to a psychologist for help with suicidal ideation or depression, but say, don't want to be institutionalised.
The fact that someone decided to commit suicide because of medical bills blows my fucking mind. I'm sure there were other things going on but that seemed to be a primary factor in that decison.
Fucking disgraceful - and people still fight against universal health care.
People also commit suicide for losing jobs, losing a bunch of money on the stock market, making a big gamble on the housing market and failing. Hospital bills are not unique in this respect.
see, funny thing about corporate healthcare is, if you get sick and are mid class most of the time your still just fucked outa luck, because apparently someone along the line thought free healthcare was a bad idea, and by someone i generally mean the upper class who get everything they want anyway : P phew for living in a progressive nation hahahaha, id be frighten sick living in the states even with my well paid salary I have if any of my kids got sick.
if anything, that was one of the more reasonable reasons.
Corporate healthcare? Do you even know what you're talking about? The typical nature of the health plans you pretend to know give you catastrophic coverage, i.e. you get very sick and the vast majority of the bill is covered. This is why you are way out of touch of what actually happens. Your kids get sick, your kids are on your corporate health insurance plan, they're covered for the cost of a pittance of copay. Health care is not free; you are not able to consider pro/cons of free healthcare because somebody already pays. Give me one million doctors that will work for free and then we can discuss whether free healthcare is a good idea. Give me some air! Suicide for medical bills is a regrettable choice for the individual in question but no rationale for any generalization on the legitimacy of state-run healthcare.
I don't understand so many references in these notes to their life insurance. They apparently don't realize they just pissed it away and there is none to be paid...
On April 17 2012 15:50 Nevermind86 wrote: A funny fact when I was thinking about the 'best way to go' I though these:
1. Go in the bathtub, drink a bottle of wine, slice the wrists like the Ceasars did. Too dramatic, I would probably slice enough for blood but not enough to die. 2. Ask a friend to give me his gun. Given my cripple situation back then, he wouldn't have accepted lol. 3. Doing a sepukku with a knife, too painfull but shit I though that could make headlines on the BBC or something. 4. Swalloing pills. Too much of a pussy. 5. Going to a highway and jumping in front of a truck at 100 miles per hour. I would have ruined that guys dreams for quite some time. 6. Then I though jumping from the 14th floor... I always wanted to fly.
As morbid as this might sound, I'd hate to go in a way where I would leave a mess for people to clean up... Just my preference though.
I'd go ride along a dangerous race course and let skill decide if I die or live
On May 04 2012 01:39 Kaitlin wrote: I don't understand so many references in these notes to their life insurance. They apparently don't realize they just pissed it away and there is none to be paid...
I discovered the other day that the life insurance that you get from the military apparently does cover suicide ... which I find worrying. Plus it's valid for 120 days after being discharged.
Someone else think that it would be cool to commit suicide while you hear a loop of a song that express all the pain you feel? Not really cool but you know what I mean.
On May 04 2012 09:58 Celestia wrote: Someone else think that it would be cool to commit suicide while you hear a loop of a song that express all the pain you feel? Not really cool but you know what I mean.
The only good way to suicide imo is to do as slowly as possible as if it is barely noticeable. Aka survive. Suicide people are some of the biggest losers ever. They lost the one thing that have more price than all the product in the universe, the breath of life. And I for one, only can bring myself to scorn at them. Its actually really degrading.
On May 04 2012 09:58 Celestia wrote: Someone else think that it would be cool to commit suicide while you hear a loop of a song that express all the pain you feel? Not really cool but you know what I mean.
The only good way to suicide imo is to do as slowly as possible as if it is barely noticeable. Aka survive. Suicide people are some of the biggest losers ever. They lost the one thing that have more price than all the product in the universe, the breath of life. And I for one, only can bring myself to scorn at them. Its actually really degrading.
Isn't scorn too much? Maybe if they were murderers I can understand it, but they aren't. There's people that overreact and take their life (e.g. kids ), but there have to be a lot of cases in which the suffering is just too much (physical or emotional) that they just can't handle it anymore. Life is very precious but when you lose the will to live its pointless.
I honestly think many of these people (from what they said in their notes, they could have left stuff out obviously) had pretty trivial problems like being nervous or thinking everyone is happier than they are. It saddens me that people are willing to die rather than work to fix their problems. This is just the impression from the words in the notes and i know there could have been more deeply seeded emotional issues but if they are being honest then some of them are dumb.
On May 04 2012 09:58 Celestia wrote: Someone else think that it would be cool to commit suicide while you hear a loop of a song that express all the pain you feel? Not really cool but you know what I mean.
The only good way to suicide imo is to do as slowly as possible as if it is barely noticeable. Aka survive. Suicide people are some of the biggest losers ever. They lost the one thing that have more price than all the product in the universe, the breath of life. And I for one, only can bring myself to scorn at them. Its actually really degrading.
This shows a pretty severe lack of empathy, and I wonder how it affects your viewpoints on other topics as well... Imagine if one day you get in an accident and lose your sight, your hearing,your tongue and you can't do anything you enjoyed anymore because you are in constant pain would you still look down on people who commit suicide? Well, this is often what suicidal / depressed people feel like, they can't enjoy anything anymore so life doesn't feel like it's worth living. Whether it's because of some traumatic event or chemical imbalance.
A predictable reaction to this is "well no, no matter what I'll always want to live I'd push through like a boss and those other people are just weak". Which is again showing a lack of empathy, part of depression is that you have lost the will to push through hard times. It also shows a lack of capability to imagine what it would be like living in a situation other than your own.
So what hope do depressed people have? well people who aren't depressed and love them can reach out a helping hand and give them the support they need to get help whatever that may be. When people are like you and just consider them weak or scum they often already think that way about themselves and it just puts them further into despair.
I don't look down on you though, because I know your lack of empathy is most likely a result of you not being able to imagine what it's like to be suicidal or the events in your life have raised you to have that mindset towards suicidal or depressed people. Empathy goes both ways. as lady gaga says.... "bullys are ""born that way"" too"
When I first tried to die it was because: I had no friends, I was ostracized at school, attacked daily both physically and verbally, my grades were trash, and my self esteem was so bad that after 5 straight years of torture (3rd-8th grade) I believed it was all my fault.
When I tried to die for a second time it was because: I felt so absolutely horrible, and couldn't figure out why. The kind of feeling that just manifests in your chest until you can't deal with it anymore.
When I tried to die for a third time it was because: I came out as transgender, finally it all made sense to me; but after that first couple of weeks the euphoria of coming out faded off. Sure I finally figured out what all the feelings were but nothing looked promising after that. No matter what I did I'd be labeled a freak. It didn't help that because of how afraid of social interaction those kids at school had made me my social life line was the internet. It's really difficult to find an article that isn't filled with peoples' opinions of how freakish transgender people are; did you know that?
For me my reason for suicide was social ostracizing. My entire life I've been that freak everyone beat up and laughed at. Am I really a coward for not seeing a way to get out of that? If everyone hates you for merely existing then what reason do you have to fight anymore?
By now, the news of our defeat has reached the Earth. The creatures we were sent here to tame are untameable... And the colonies we were sent to reclaim have proven to be stronger than we anticipated.
Whatever you may hear about what has happened out here, know this: Alexei did not die a hero. I killed him... my pride killed him. And now my pride has consumed me as well.
You will never see me again, Helena.
Tell our children that I love them, and that their father died in defense of their future.
Au revoir
As sad as this thread is, I laughed pretty damn hard at this.
He could have some form of psychosis, you're a sick fucker.
It's from the BW campaign...
damn someone just got told oohhohohoho haha
I lol'd at this.
The fact that they both have SC2 in their name too...