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On December 03 2013 04:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 04:33 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:24 MaestroSC wrote:
This might just be pointing out the obvious... but Fiwifaki, does this mean you are not interested in the future or Bitcoins? Or do not believe they will be worth more eventually? Because you said you cashed out for your 3/4 of a million.
I mean if you believed in it, you would obviously re-invest at least some of it right?
Just looking for your .02 really regarding the future of it. ? 3/4 million so he had bitcoins and now is arguing the negatives on bitcoin? anyway id like more bitcoin merchents around everywhere, no more fees!!!! no more waste! You have to be kidding me, Chrono. If you're going to make an investment, you have to look at the positives and negatives. You can't just be like "Oh bitcoins so great, buy them all", you have to look at it from every angle. There are positives, and there are negatives, and there isn't a definite answer whether they will work or not. And I had bitcoins from the get-go, I didn't exactly invest money in them, so I didn't really have a choice besides wait until the price is right.
o well just saying u should probably do a bit more research. i certainly wouldnt cash out that much. just enough to get by. its pretty freaking hard to get whole bitcoins now.
by the way ive been looking it bitcoin from many angles for awhile now and well ill continue to look at it from all angles. just right now people are arguing the same old points that have been debunked already. if its not bitcoin its just gona be another one just like it.
what does not work is the current money we use now and the banking system and its getting more and more clearer day by day.
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On December 03 2013 04:42 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 04:13 MaestroSC wrote:On December 03 2013 04:00 FiWiFaKi wrote:
If you only invest what you can afford to lose, you'll never become rich.
Say there are 3 investments that have an 80% chance of doubling your money, and you have 500,000 in property, and 20,000 in savings. What do you do? Do you invest your 20,000 between the 3 investments, or do you sell your property/take a 500,000 loan and invest 520,000 between the 3 investments? Sure, you might lose everything, but are the probabilities of you making money large enough for you to take the risk? What would you do in this case? I would invest the 520,000 and take my odds.
Anyway, I'm sure most people have heard this before, but:
Everything you do in life comes down to odds, and increasing them. Nothing is ever for certain. You go to McDonald's and you can either by a Big Mac or McChicken... You've never had either, which one do you buy? The one you are more likely going to enjoy more. Even after you buy one of the choices and it tastes delicious, you still don't know whether you'd like it more than the other.
Okay... So that was pretty off-topic I suppose, but what I was trying to get at is this. Invest as much money as you want, do your research, estimate your probabilities, and if the probabilities work for you - take them. so what you are saying... is i should sell my house... take my 315k... and invest it all in bitcoins... and if the price even goes up... $100... then ill have made 31,500,000... why are u making this so tempting... Your math is wrong. If you buy at $1k, and you invest 315k you have 315 bitcoins. They go up $100, and you sell at $1100, netting you $346.5k, or a profit of $31.5k. 10%. Not bad, but not 31million  To make 100x your investment, the price of the bitcoin would have to multiply 100 times, so up to 100,000k per bitcoin.
lmao i realized this while driving to lunch... its what i get for doing too much at once i was laughing at myself in the car like "lmao ur a genius" in the comedians Tidus' retard inside my head voice lololol. But ya if I invest 315k in it right now... and it goes up 1000 (which a general consensus from all of the hundreds of articles of read most people think this thing might get as high as 10k per by the end of next year...again all speculation obviously or else wed all be betting on a guarenteed winner haha) then i would double my money, and if it got to 10k like people are speculating... id be sitting on 315x10,000 = 3,150,000 and i would never work again.... aahhh to dream haha
but in reality i would never sell my house to inves tin bitcoins... I might move my savings all of it to bitcoin depending on trends over the next couple months.. but thats as far as i would go.
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I sold two bitcoins for $180 each because everyone was telling me they were going to drop after Silkroad funds were seized. And then China wanted them hardcore and now they're up to $1000. Fuck coinbase, fuck everyone. Don't even care really.
I also got scammed out of another bitcoin that is still owed to me when I lent it to whom I thought were reputable people on sealswithclubs (a bitcoin poker website). I even tried to bargain with them, but now that the prices went up more than 4x, I know there is a 0% chance I'm getting it back. I made about 3.5ish bitcoins from sealswithclubs and was so careless about it, who would've known I could've almost had $5k if I just put effort into that website and not been careless and dumb. Oh well, life lesson.
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On December 03 2013 04:55 Chrono000 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 04:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:33 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:24 MaestroSC wrote:
This might just be pointing out the obvious... but Fiwifaki, does this mean you are not interested in the future or Bitcoins? Or do not believe they will be worth more eventually? Because you said you cashed out for your 3/4 of a million.
I mean if you believed in it, you would obviously re-invest at least some of it right?
Just looking for your .02 really regarding the future of it. ? 3/4 million so he had bitcoins and now is arguing the negatives on bitcoin? anyway id like more bitcoin merchents around everywhere, no more fees!!!! no more waste! You have to be kidding me, Chrono. If you're going to make an investment, you have to look at the positives and negatives. You can't just be like "Oh bitcoins so great, buy them all", you have to look at it from every angle. There are positives, and there are negatives, and there isn't a definite answer whether they will work or not. And I had bitcoins from the get-go, I didn't exactly invest money in them, so I didn't really have a choice besides wait until the price is right. o well just saying u should probably do a bit more research. i certainly wouldnt cash out that much. just enough to get by. its pretty freaking hard to get whole bitcoins now. by the way ive been looking it bitcoin from many angles for awhile now and well ill continue to look at it from all angles. just right now people are arguing the same old points that have been debunked already. if its not bitcoin its just gona be another one just like it. what does not work is the current money we use now and the banking system and its getting more and more clearer day by day.
Just because our current system is not perfect doesn't mean this new system would be better. Right now most people still look at BTC not because it has potential to be a currency, but because they heard that people were getting rich off of it. Just like how this thread explodes when the price goes up - but nobody comments when the price is constant (which is what the currency needs).
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On December 03 2013 06:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 04:55 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:33 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:24 MaestroSC wrote:
This might just be pointing out the obvious... but Fiwifaki, does this mean you are not interested in the future or Bitcoins? Or do not believe they will be worth more eventually? Because you said you cashed out for your 3/4 of a million.
I mean if you believed in it, you would obviously re-invest at least some of it right?
Just looking for your .02 really regarding the future of it. ? 3/4 million so he had bitcoins and now is arguing the negatives on bitcoin? anyway id like more bitcoin merchents around everywhere, no more fees!!!! no more waste! You have to be kidding me, Chrono. If you're going to make an investment, you have to look at the positives and negatives. You can't just be like "Oh bitcoins so great, buy them all", you have to look at it from every angle. There are positives, and there are negatives, and there isn't a definite answer whether they will work or not. And I had bitcoins from the get-go, I didn't exactly invest money in them, so I didn't really have a choice besides wait until the price is right. o well just saying u should probably do a bit more research. i certainly wouldnt cash out that much. just enough to get by. its pretty freaking hard to get whole bitcoins now. by the way ive been looking it bitcoin from many angles for awhile now and well ill continue to look at it from all angles. just right now people are arguing the same old points that have been debunked already. if its not bitcoin its just gona be another one just like it. what does not work is the current money we use now and the banking system and its getting more and more clearer day by day. Just because our current system is not perfect doesn't mean this new system would be better. Right now most people still look at BTC not because it has potential to be a currency, but because they heard that people were getting rich off of it. Just like how this thread explodes when the price goes up - but nobody comments when the price is constant (which is what the currency needs).
imo what it needs more than anything is an implemented system of dividing bitcoins into smaller units...
A lot of people are now using millibits, but we need something that every1 can work in/deal with... Because saying "You need 1000 for 1 bitcoin" a 90% of the population goes "wtf i dont have 1000 for only one" and they assume that bitcoins are like pennys and cannot be split. Which is not the case at all.
Exchanges need to start trading formally in smaller units so that newcomers arent so afraid/hesitant. A lot of newcomers dont understand that you can spend 1/1000th of a coin.
also idk how i feel about true stability... the potential of being an investment is the draw for some users... Imagine having a checking account where you can buy any/everything you want out of it.. while still investing. Imagine if you could throw $50,000 in the stock market while still being able to buy stuff with your money currently in the market.
IDK tho cause i know the stock market also = risk, similar to bitcoins. But if bitcoins were somewhat stable, this reality wouldnt be too far-fetched i guess.
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On December 03 2013 07:43 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:55 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:33 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:24 MaestroSC wrote:
This might just be pointing out the obvious... but Fiwifaki, does this mean you are not interested in the future or Bitcoins? Or do not believe they will be worth more eventually? Because you said you cashed out for your 3/4 of a million.
I mean if you believed in it, you would obviously re-invest at least some of it right?
Just looking for your .02 really regarding the future of it. ? 3/4 million so he had bitcoins and now is arguing the negatives on bitcoin? anyway id like more bitcoin merchents around everywhere, no more fees!!!! no more waste! You have to be kidding me, Chrono. If you're going to make an investment, you have to look at the positives and negatives. You can't just be like "Oh bitcoins so great, buy them all", you have to look at it from every angle. There are positives, and there are negatives, and there isn't a definite answer whether they will work or not. And I had bitcoins from the get-go, I didn't exactly invest money in them, so I didn't really have a choice besides wait until the price is right. o well just saying u should probably do a bit more research. i certainly wouldnt cash out that much. just enough to get by. its pretty freaking hard to get whole bitcoins now. by the way ive been looking it bitcoin from many angles for awhile now and well ill continue to look at it from all angles. just right now people are arguing the same old points that have been debunked already. if its not bitcoin its just gona be another one just like it. what does not work is the current money we use now and the banking system and its getting more and more clearer day by day. Just because our current system is not perfect doesn't mean this new system would be better. Right now most people still look at BTC not because it has potential to be a currency, but because they heard that people were getting rich off of it. Just like how this thread explodes when the price goes up - but nobody comments when the price is constant (which is what the currency needs). imo what it needs more than anything is an implemented system of dividing bitcoins into smaller units... A lot of people are now using millibits, but we need something that every1 can work in/deal with... Because saying "You need 1000 for 1 bitcoin" a 90% of the population goes "wtf i dont have 1000 for only one" and they assume that bitcoins are like pennys and cannot be split. Which is not the case at all. Exchanges need to start trading formally in smaller units so that newcomers arent so afraid/hesitant. A lot of newcomers dont understand that you can spend 1/1000th of a coin. also idk how i feel about true stability... the potential of being an investment is the draw for some users... Imagine having a checking account where you can buy any/everything you want out of it.. while still investing. Imagine if you could throw $50,000 in the stock market while still being able to buy stuff with your money currently in the market. IDK tho cause i know the stock market also = risk, similar to bitcoins. But if bitcoins were somewhat stable, this reality wouldnt be too far-fetched i guess. hm, i would say the possibility of diversification is a lot higher with the stock market then with bitcoins alone, like with any currency you'd solely invest in. I think the only thing similar is that there is risk, a not very comforting thought.
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On December 03 2013 08:04 Yorbon wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 07:43 MaestroSC wrote:On December 03 2013 06:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:55 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:33 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:24 MaestroSC wrote:
This might just be pointing out the obvious... but Fiwifaki, does this mean you are not interested in the future or Bitcoins? Or do not believe they will be worth more eventually? Because you said you cashed out for your 3/4 of a million.
I mean if you believed in it, you would obviously re-invest at least some of it right?
Just looking for your .02 really regarding the future of it. ? 3/4 million so he had bitcoins and now is arguing the negatives on bitcoin? anyway id like more bitcoin merchents around everywhere, no more fees!!!! no more waste! You have to be kidding me, Chrono. If you're going to make an investment, you have to look at the positives and negatives. You can't just be like "Oh bitcoins so great, buy them all", you have to look at it from every angle. There are positives, and there are negatives, and there isn't a definite answer whether they will work or not. And I had bitcoins from the get-go, I didn't exactly invest money in them, so I didn't really have a choice besides wait until the price is right. o well just saying u should probably do a bit more research. i certainly wouldnt cash out that much. just enough to get by. its pretty freaking hard to get whole bitcoins now. by the way ive been looking it bitcoin from many angles for awhile now and well ill continue to look at it from all angles. just right now people are arguing the same old points that have been debunked already. if its not bitcoin its just gona be another one just like it. what does not work is the current money we use now and the banking system and its getting more and more clearer day by day. Just because our current system is not perfect doesn't mean this new system would be better. Right now most people still look at BTC not because it has potential to be a currency, but because they heard that people were getting rich off of it. Just like how this thread explodes when the price goes up - but nobody comments when the price is constant (which is what the currency needs). imo what it needs more than anything is an implemented system of dividing bitcoins into smaller units... A lot of people are now using millibits, but we need something that every1 can work in/deal with... Because saying "You need 1000 for 1 bitcoin" a 90% of the population goes "wtf i dont have 1000 for only one" and they assume that bitcoins are like pennys and cannot be split. Which is not the case at all. Exchanges need to start trading formally in smaller units so that newcomers arent so afraid/hesitant. A lot of newcomers dont understand that you can spend 1/1000th of a coin. also idk how i feel about true stability... the potential of being an investment is the draw for some users... Imagine having a checking account where you can buy any/everything you want out of it.. while still investing. Imagine if you could throw $50,000 in the stock market while still being able to buy stuff with your money currently in the market. IDK tho cause i know the stock market also = risk, similar to bitcoins. But if bitcoins were somewhat stable, this reality wouldnt be too far-fetched i guess. hm, i would say the possibility of diversification is a lot higher with the stock market then with bitcoins alone, like with any currency you'd solely invest in. I think the only thing similar is that there is risk, a not very comforting thought.
Ok? Im clearly not going to bother arguing the pros and cons of stock investing vs bitcoins
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On December 03 2013 07:43 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:55 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:33 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:24 MaestroSC wrote:
This might just be pointing out the obvious... but Fiwifaki, does this mean you are not interested in the future or Bitcoins? Or do not believe they will be worth more eventually? Because you said you cashed out for your 3/4 of a million.
I mean if you believed in it, you would obviously re-invest at least some of it right?
Just looking for your .02 really regarding the future of it. ? 3/4 million so he had bitcoins and now is arguing the negatives on bitcoin? anyway id like more bitcoin merchents around everywhere, no more fees!!!! no more waste! You have to be kidding me, Chrono. If you're going to make an investment, you have to look at the positives and negatives. You can't just be like "Oh bitcoins so great, buy them all", you have to look at it from every angle. There are positives, and there are negatives, and there isn't a definite answer whether they will work or not. And I had bitcoins from the get-go, I didn't exactly invest money in them, so I didn't really have a choice besides wait until the price is right. o well just saying u should probably do a bit more research. i certainly wouldnt cash out that much. just enough to get by. its pretty freaking hard to get whole bitcoins now. by the way ive been looking it bitcoin from many angles for awhile now and well ill continue to look at it from all angles. just right now people are arguing the same old points that have been debunked already. if its not bitcoin its just gona be another one just like it. what does not work is the current money we use now and the banking system and its getting more and more clearer day by day. Just because our current system is not perfect doesn't mean this new system would be better. Right now most people still look at BTC not because it has potential to be a currency, but because they heard that people were getting rich off of it. Just like how this thread explodes when the price goes up - but nobody comments when the price is constant (which is what the currency needs). imo what it needs more than anything is an implemented system of dividing bitcoins into smaller units... A lot of people are now using millibits, but we need something that every1 can work in/deal with... Because saying "You need 1000 for 1 bitcoin" a 90% of the population goes "wtf i dont have 1000 for only one" and they assume that bitcoins are like pennys and cannot be split. Which is not the case at all. Exchanges need to start trading formally in smaller units so that newcomers arent so afraid/hesitant. A lot of newcomers dont understand that you can spend 1/1000th of a coin. also idk how i feel about true stability... the potential of being an investment is the draw for some users... Imagine having a checking account where you can buy any/everything you want out of it.. while still investing. Imagine if you could throw $50,000 in the stock market while still being able to buy stuff with your money currently in the market. IDK tho cause i know the stock market also = risk, similar to bitcoins. But if bitcoins were somewhat stable, this reality wouldnt be too far-fetched i guess.
You need to stop thinking about the BTC as an investment... For the BTC to be used as a currency, people need to treat it as a currency. Just like if you trade USD to Euro you aren't thinking you are invest money, you are just using a different medium of exchange. If we are under the impression that the goal of the BTC is to create a virtual currency, it cannot be a stock market.
I will list my biggest issues with bitcoin right now:
1) If fractional reserve banking is used (which it must if it is to be a viable currency), it is a lot more likely that if there is no government backing of the bitcoin that if there is a change in price many people will try to cash their bitcoins, and the banks will not have enough money. Then you get bank runs, and it's good game. Don't really see how this is preventable.
2) Deflation. Coins can be easily lost, hoarding will be an issue as long as another currency exists. No human behavior will be able to offset all the deflation of bitcoins. Deflation leads to many bad things: wages, reduce spending (slows economy).
3) No fees is totally bullshit. Check the exchanges, they have fees, actually very high fees, I don't know why people keep trying to advertise no fees. I have no fees using my visa, I get fees using bitcoins. Check here: https://www.mtgox.com/fee-schedule.... It will actually be just like paper money in that regard, there will still be a banking system. There will always be a banking system with the same mechanic as you have now. I'm uncertain why people think this wouldn't be the case?
4) The markets for trading suck. Unlike currency exchange where it's much easier to keep it secure, the bit-coin markets must constantly keep up with technology to prevent any breaches, I honestly don't trust a privately run company to be able to do that. Geez Mtgox can't even convert many peoples' money to USD within 2 months. You just need government regulation to make it safe, but that defeats the purpose. Why do you think the price varies so wildly between exchanges? LOTS of fees and trouble converting to cash.
5) Bitcoins are very bad for the government. When there is a 2% inflation rate and the government prints the money to maintain the inflation rate at 2%... It practically gives the government free money, as well as the control over its money supply. Bitcoins, and everything about them would be a nightmare to deal with for governments. Government sacrifices lots of power by not being able to control the money supply. The stability of the currency weakens when the supply cannot be controlled. There will be pressure to prevent bitcoins from becoming the dominant currency.
6) Actually there's quite a lot more issues, and they aren't easy ones to solve. People are being too optimistic imo.
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On December 03 2013 07:43 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 06:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:55 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:33 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:24 MaestroSC wrote:
This might just be pointing out the obvious... but Fiwifaki, does this mean you are not interested in the future or Bitcoins? Or do not believe they will be worth more eventually? Because you said you cashed out for your 3/4 of a million.
I mean if you believed in it, you would obviously re-invest at least some of it right?
Just looking for your .02 really regarding the future of it. ? 3/4 million so he had bitcoins and now is arguing the negatives on bitcoin? anyway id like more bitcoin merchents around everywhere, no more fees!!!! no more waste! You have to be kidding me, Chrono. If you're going to make an investment, you have to look at the positives and negatives. You can't just be like "Oh bitcoins so great, buy them all", you have to look at it from every angle. There are positives, and there are negatives, and there isn't a definite answer whether they will work or not. And I had bitcoins from the get-go, I didn't exactly invest money in them, so I didn't really have a choice besides wait until the price is right. o well just saying u should probably do a bit more research. i certainly wouldnt cash out that much. just enough to get by. its pretty freaking hard to get whole bitcoins now. by the way ive been looking it bitcoin from many angles for awhile now and well ill continue to look at it from all angles. just right now people are arguing the same old points that have been debunked already. if its not bitcoin its just gona be another one just like it. what does not work is the current money we use now and the banking system and its getting more and more clearer day by day. Just because our current system is not perfect doesn't mean this new system would be better. Right now most people still look at BTC not because it has potential to be a currency, but because they heard that people were getting rich off of it. Just like how this thread explodes when the price goes up - but nobody comments when the price is constant (which is what the currency needs). imo what it needs more than anything is an implemented system of dividing bitcoins into smaller units... A lot of people are now using millibits, but we need something that every1 can work in/deal with... Because saying "You need 1000 for 1 bitcoin" a 90% of the population goes "wtf i dont have 1000 for only one" and they assume that bitcoins are like pennys and cannot be split. Which is not the case at all. Exchanges need to start trading formally in smaller units so that newcomers arent so afraid/hesitant. A lot of newcomers dont understand that you can spend 1/1000th of a coin. also idk how i feel about true stability... the potential of being an investment is the draw for some users... Imagine having a checking account where you can buy any/everything you want out of it.. while still investing. Imagine if you could throw $50,000 in the stock market while still being able to buy stuff with your money currently in the market. IDK tho cause i know the stock market also = risk, similar to bitcoins. But if bitcoins were somewhat stable, this reality wouldnt be too far-fetched i guess.
That's what Litecoins are for
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On December 03 2013 09:09 FiWiFaKi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 07:43 MaestroSC wrote:On December 03 2013 06:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:55 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:33 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:24 MaestroSC wrote:
This might just be pointing out the obvious... but Fiwifaki, does this mean you are not interested in the future or Bitcoins? Or do not believe they will be worth more eventually? Because you said you cashed out for your 3/4 of a million.
I mean if you believed in it, you would obviously re-invest at least some of it right?
Just looking for your .02 really regarding the future of it. ? 3/4 million so he had bitcoins and now is arguing the negatives on bitcoin? anyway id like more bitcoin merchents around everywhere, no more fees!!!! no more waste! You have to be kidding me, Chrono. If you're going to make an investment, you have to look at the positives and negatives. You can't just be like "Oh bitcoins so great, buy them all", you have to look at it from every angle. There are positives, and there are negatives, and there isn't a definite answer whether they will work or not. And I had bitcoins from the get-go, I didn't exactly invest money in them, so I didn't really have a choice besides wait until the price is right. o well just saying u should probably do a bit more research. i certainly wouldnt cash out that much. just enough to get by. its pretty freaking hard to get whole bitcoins now. by the way ive been looking it bitcoin from many angles for awhile now and well ill continue to look at it from all angles. just right now people are arguing the same old points that have been debunked already. if its not bitcoin its just gona be another one just like it. what does not work is the current money we use now and the banking system and its getting more and more clearer day by day. Just because our current system is not perfect doesn't mean this new system would be better. Right now most people still look at BTC not because it has potential to be a currency, but because they heard that people were getting rich off of it. Just like how this thread explodes when the price goes up - but nobody comments when the price is constant (which is what the currency needs). imo what it needs more than anything is an implemented system of dividing bitcoins into smaller units... A lot of people are now using millibits, but we need something that every1 can work in/deal with... Because saying "You need 1000 for 1 bitcoin" a 90% of the population goes "wtf i dont have 1000 for only one" and they assume that bitcoins are like pennys and cannot be split. Which is not the case at all. Exchanges need to start trading formally in smaller units so that newcomers arent so afraid/hesitant. A lot of newcomers dont understand that you can spend 1/1000th of a coin. also idk how i feel about true stability... the potential of being an investment is the draw for some users... Imagine having a checking account where you can buy any/everything you want out of it.. while still investing. Imagine if you could throw $50,000 in the stock market while still being able to buy stuff with your money currently in the market. IDK tho cause i know the stock market also = risk, similar to bitcoins. But if bitcoins were somewhat stable, this reality wouldnt be too far-fetched i guess. You need to stop thinking about the BTC as an investment... For the BTC to be used as a currency, people need to treat it as a currency. Just like if you trade USD to Euro you aren't thinking you are invest money, you are just using a different medium of exchange. If we are under the impression that the goal of the BTC is to create a virtual currency, it cannot be a stock market. I will list my biggest issues with bitcoin right now: 1) If fractional reserve banking is used (which it must if it is to be a viable currency), it is a lot more likely that if there is no government backing of the bitcoin that if there is a change in price many people will try to cash their bitcoins, and the banks will not have enough money. Then you get bank runs, and it's good game. Don't really see how this is preventable. 2) Deflation. Coins can be easily lost, hoarding will be an issue as long as another currency exists. No human behavior will be able to offset all the deflation of bitcoins. Deflation leads to many bad things: wages, reduce spending (slows economy). 3) No fees is totally bullshit. Check the exchanges, they have fees, actually very high fees, I don't know why people keep trying to advertise no fees. I have no fees using my visa, I get fees using bitcoins. Check here: https://www.mtgox.com/fee-schedule.... It will actually be just like paper money in that regard, there will still be a banking system. There will always be a banking system with the same mechanic as you have now. I'm uncertain why people think this wouldn't be the case? 4) The markets for trading suck. Unlike currency exchange where it's much easier to keep it secure, the bit-coin markets must constantly keep up with technology to prevent any breaches, I honestly don't trust a privately run company to be able to do that. Geez Mtgox can't even convert many peoples' money to USD within 2 months. You just need government regulation to make it safe, but that defeats the purpose. Why do you think the price varies so wildly between exchanges? LOTS of fees and trouble converting to cash. 5) Bitcoins are very bad for the government. When there is a 2% inflation rate and the government prints the money to maintain the inflation rate at 2%... It practically gives the government free money, as well as the control over its money supply. Bitcoins, and everything about them would be a nightmare to deal with for governments. Government sacrifices lots of power by not being able to control the money supply. The stability of the currency weakens when the supply cannot be controlled. There will be pressure to prevent bitcoins from becoming the dominant currency. 6) Actually there's quite a lot more issues, and they aren't easy ones to solve. People are being too optimistic imo.
currency trading has always been a thing tho. One of my buddies dads has been a currency trader for the past 30 years and has made plenty of money off of it.
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On December 03 2013 11:07 MaestroSC wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 09:09 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 07:43 MaestroSC wrote:On December 03 2013 06:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:55 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:33 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:24 MaestroSC wrote:
This might just be pointing out the obvious... but Fiwifaki, does this mean you are not interested in the future or Bitcoins? Or do not believe they will be worth more eventually? Because you said you cashed out for your 3/4 of a million.
I mean if you believed in it, you would obviously re-invest at least some of it right?
Just looking for your .02 really regarding the future of it. ? 3/4 million so he had bitcoins and now is arguing the negatives on bitcoin? anyway id like more bitcoin merchents around everywhere, no more fees!!!! no more waste! You have to be kidding me, Chrono. If you're going to make an investment, you have to look at the positives and negatives. You can't just be like "Oh bitcoins so great, buy them all", you have to look at it from every angle. There are positives, and there are negatives, and there isn't a definite answer whether they will work or not. And I had bitcoins from the get-go, I didn't exactly invest money in them, so I didn't really have a choice besides wait until the price is right. o well just saying u should probably do a bit more research. i certainly wouldnt cash out that much. just enough to get by. its pretty freaking hard to get whole bitcoins now. by the way ive been looking it bitcoin from many angles for awhile now and well ill continue to look at it from all angles. just right now people are arguing the same old points that have been debunked already. if its not bitcoin its just gona be another one just like it. what does not work is the current money we use now and the banking system and its getting more and more clearer day by day. Just because our current system is not perfect doesn't mean this new system would be better. Right now most people still look at BTC not because it has potential to be a currency, but because they heard that people were getting rich off of it. Just like how this thread explodes when the price goes up - but nobody comments when the price is constant (which is what the currency needs). imo what it needs more than anything is an implemented system of dividing bitcoins into smaller units... A lot of people are now using millibits, but we need something that every1 can work in/deal with... Because saying "You need 1000 for 1 bitcoin" a 90% of the population goes "wtf i dont have 1000 for only one" and they assume that bitcoins are like pennys and cannot be split. Which is not the case at all. Exchanges need to start trading formally in smaller units so that newcomers arent so afraid/hesitant. A lot of newcomers dont understand that you can spend 1/1000th of a coin. also idk how i feel about true stability... the potential of being an investment is the draw for some users... Imagine having a checking account where you can buy any/everything you want out of it.. while still investing. Imagine if you could throw $50,000 in the stock market while still being able to buy stuff with your money currently in the market. IDK tho cause i know the stock market also = risk, similar to bitcoins. But if bitcoins were somewhat stable, this reality wouldnt be too far-fetched i guess. You need to stop thinking about the BTC as an investment... For the BTC to be used as a currency, people need to treat it as a currency. Just like if you trade USD to Euro you aren't thinking you are invest money, you are just using a different medium of exchange. If we are under the impression that the goal of the BTC is to create a virtual currency, it cannot be a stock market. I will list my biggest issues with bitcoin right now: 1) If fractional reserve banking is used (which it must if it is to be a viable currency), it is a lot more likely that if there is no government backing of the bitcoin that if there is a change in price many people will try to cash their bitcoins, and the banks will not have enough money. Then you get bank runs, and it's good game. Don't really see how this is preventable. 2) Deflation. Coins can be easily lost, hoarding will be an issue as long as another currency exists. No human behavior will be able to offset all the deflation of bitcoins. Deflation leads to many bad things: wages, reduce spending (slows economy). 3) No fees is totally bullshit. Check the exchanges, they have fees, actually very high fees, I don't know why people keep trying to advertise no fees. I have no fees using my visa, I get fees using bitcoins. Check here: https://www.mtgox.com/fee-schedule.... It will actually be just like paper money in that regard, there will still be a banking system. There will always be a banking system with the same mechanic as you have now. I'm uncertain why people think this wouldn't be the case? 4) The markets for trading suck. Unlike currency exchange where it's much easier to keep it secure, the bit-coin markets must constantly keep up with technology to prevent any breaches, I honestly don't trust a privately run company to be able to do that. Geez Mtgox can't even convert many peoples' money to USD within 2 months. You just need government regulation to make it safe, but that defeats the purpose. Why do you think the price varies so wildly between exchanges? LOTS of fees and trouble converting to cash. 5) Bitcoins are very bad for the government. When there is a 2% inflation rate and the government prints the money to maintain the inflation rate at 2%... It practically gives the government free money, as well as the control over its money supply. Bitcoins, and everything about them would be a nightmare to deal with for governments. Government sacrifices lots of power by not being able to control the money supply. The stability of the currency weakens when the supply cannot be controlled. There will be pressure to prevent bitcoins from becoming the dominant currency. 6) Actually there's quite a lot more issues, and they aren't easy ones to solve. People are being too optimistic imo. currency trading has always been a thing tho. One of my buddies dads has been a currency trader for the past 30 years and has made plenty of money off of it. Whether it is a smart thing is the question. Did he beat the 30 year stock market average on annual rate of return? How much time did he spend doing so?
I'm always extremely skeptical of commodity trading and day trading. There seems to be so much risk and so little means to actually give yourself a true advantage in the long run.
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On December 03 2013 12:31 calgar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 11:07 MaestroSC wrote:On December 03 2013 09:09 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 07:43 MaestroSC wrote:On December 03 2013 06:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:55 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:33 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:24 MaestroSC wrote:
This might just be pointing out the obvious... but Fiwifaki, does this mean you are not interested in the future or Bitcoins? Or do not believe they will be worth more eventually? Because you said you cashed out for your 3/4 of a million.
I mean if you believed in it, you would obviously re-invest at least some of it right?
Just looking for your .02 really regarding the future of it. ? 3/4 million so he had bitcoins and now is arguing the negatives on bitcoin? anyway id like more bitcoin merchents around everywhere, no more fees!!!! no more waste! You have to be kidding me, Chrono. If you're going to make an investment, you have to look at the positives and negatives. You can't just be like "Oh bitcoins so great, buy them all", you have to look at it from every angle. There are positives, and there are negatives, and there isn't a definite answer whether they will work or not. And I had bitcoins from the get-go, I didn't exactly invest money in them, so I didn't really have a choice besides wait until the price is right. o well just saying u should probably do a bit more research. i certainly wouldnt cash out that much. just enough to get by. its pretty freaking hard to get whole bitcoins now. by the way ive been looking it bitcoin from many angles for awhile now and well ill continue to look at it from all angles. just right now people are arguing the same old points that have been debunked already. if its not bitcoin its just gona be another one just like it. what does not work is the current money we use now and the banking system and its getting more and more clearer day by day. Just because our current system is not perfect doesn't mean this new system would be better. Right now most people still look at BTC not because it has potential to be a currency, but because they heard that people were getting rich off of it. Just like how this thread explodes when the price goes up - but nobody comments when the price is constant (which is what the currency needs). imo what it needs more than anything is an implemented system of dividing bitcoins into smaller units... A lot of people are now using millibits, but we need something that every1 can work in/deal with... Because saying "You need 1000 for 1 bitcoin" a 90% of the population goes "wtf i dont have 1000 for only one" and they assume that bitcoins are like pennys and cannot be split. Which is not the case at all. Exchanges need to start trading formally in smaller units so that newcomers arent so afraid/hesitant. A lot of newcomers dont understand that you can spend 1/1000th of a coin. also idk how i feel about true stability... the potential of being an investment is the draw for some users... Imagine having a checking account where you can buy any/everything you want out of it.. while still investing. Imagine if you could throw $50,000 in the stock market while still being able to buy stuff with your money currently in the market. IDK tho cause i know the stock market also = risk, similar to bitcoins. But if bitcoins were somewhat stable, this reality wouldnt be too far-fetched i guess. You need to stop thinking about the BTC as an investment... For the BTC to be used as a currency, people need to treat it as a currency. Just like if you trade USD to Euro you aren't thinking you are invest money, you are just using a different medium of exchange. If we are under the impression that the goal of the BTC is to create a virtual currency, it cannot be a stock market. I will list my biggest issues with bitcoin right now: 1) If fractional reserve banking is used (which it must if it is to be a viable currency), it is a lot more likely that if there is no government backing of the bitcoin that if there is a change in price many people will try to cash their bitcoins, and the banks will not have enough money. Then you get bank runs, and it's good game. Don't really see how this is preventable. 2) Deflation. Coins can be easily lost, hoarding will be an issue as long as another currency exists. No human behavior will be able to offset all the deflation of bitcoins. Deflation leads to many bad things: wages, reduce spending (slows economy). 3) No fees is totally bullshit. Check the exchanges, they have fees, actually very high fees, I don't know why people keep trying to advertise no fees. I have no fees using my visa, I get fees using bitcoins. Check here: https://www.mtgox.com/fee-schedule.... It will actually be just like paper money in that regard, there will still be a banking system. There will always be a banking system with the same mechanic as you have now. I'm uncertain why people think this wouldn't be the case? 4) The markets for trading suck. Unlike currency exchange where it's much easier to keep it secure, the bit-coin markets must constantly keep up with technology to prevent any breaches, I honestly don't trust a privately run company to be able to do that. Geez Mtgox can't even convert many peoples' money to USD within 2 months. You just need government regulation to make it safe, but that defeats the purpose. Why do you think the price varies so wildly between exchanges? LOTS of fees and trouble converting to cash. 5) Bitcoins are very bad for the government. When there is a 2% inflation rate and the government prints the money to maintain the inflation rate at 2%... It practically gives the government free money, as well as the control over its money supply. Bitcoins, and everything about them would be a nightmare to deal with for governments. Government sacrifices lots of power by not being able to control the money supply. The stability of the currency weakens when the supply cannot be controlled. There will be pressure to prevent bitcoins from becoming the dominant currency. 6) Actually there's quite a lot more issues, and they aren't easy ones to solve. People are being too optimistic imo. currency trading has always been a thing tho. One of my buddies dads has been a currency trader for the past 30 years and has made plenty of money off of it. Whether it is a smart thing is the question. Did he beat the 30 year stock market average on annual rate of return? How much time did he spend doing so? I'm always extremely skeptical of commodity trading and day trading. There seems to be so much risk and so little means to actually give yourself a true advantage in the long run.
Piggy backing on this:
everyone keeps saying that bitcoin is going to go only higher and higher...Bitcoin already has passed that $1000 line you really think a currency like this is going to just keep going up and up? It is going to crash sooner or later. Hard (it won't bounce back to what it was previously down in the future). The bubble is there and it will burst.
Back when bitcoins were kinda young then yes they would be a pretty sound investment. An underground currency that bypasses lot of security and watchdogs. Currency that has digital properties (strong, secure). Now the current stage the bitcoins are at make them quite risky. IMO the market for them is no different than the penny stock market...and everyone knows about that hell
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On December 03 2013 13:19 heroyi wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 12:31 calgar wrote:On December 03 2013 11:07 MaestroSC wrote:On December 03 2013 09:09 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 07:43 MaestroSC wrote:On December 03 2013 06:49 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:55 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:42 FiWiFaKi wrote:On December 03 2013 04:33 Chrono000 wrote:On December 03 2013 04:24 MaestroSC wrote:
This might just be pointing out the obvious... but Fiwifaki, does this mean you are not interested in the future or Bitcoins? Or do not believe they will be worth more eventually? Because you said you cashed out for your 3/4 of a million.
I mean if you believed in it, you would obviously re-invest at least some of it right?
Just looking for your .02 really regarding the future of it. ? 3/4 million so he had bitcoins and now is arguing the negatives on bitcoin? anyway id like more bitcoin merchents around everywhere, no more fees!!!! no more waste! You have to be kidding me, Chrono. If you're going to make an investment, you have to look at the positives and negatives. You can't just be like "Oh bitcoins so great, buy them all", you have to look at it from every angle. There are positives, and there are negatives, and there isn't a definite answer whether they will work or not. And I had bitcoins from the get-go, I didn't exactly invest money in them, so I didn't really have a choice besides wait until the price is right. o well just saying u should probably do a bit more research. i certainly wouldnt cash out that much. just enough to get by. its pretty freaking hard to get whole bitcoins now. by the way ive been looking it bitcoin from many angles for awhile now and well ill continue to look at it from all angles. just right now people are arguing the same old points that have been debunked already. if its not bitcoin its just gona be another one just like it. what does not work is the current money we use now and the banking system and its getting more and more clearer day by day. Just because our current system is not perfect doesn't mean this new system would be better. Right now most people still look at BTC not because it has potential to be a currency, but because they heard that people were getting rich off of it. Just like how this thread explodes when the price goes up - but nobody comments when the price is constant (which is what the currency needs). imo what it needs more than anything is an implemented system of dividing bitcoins into smaller units... A lot of people are now using millibits, but we need something that every1 can work in/deal with... Because saying "You need 1000 for 1 bitcoin" a 90% of the population goes "wtf i dont have 1000 for only one" and they assume that bitcoins are like pennys and cannot be split. Which is not the case at all. Exchanges need to start trading formally in smaller units so that newcomers arent so afraid/hesitant. A lot of newcomers dont understand that you can spend 1/1000th of a coin. also idk how i feel about true stability... the potential of being an investment is the draw for some users... Imagine having a checking account where you can buy any/everything you want out of it.. while still investing. Imagine if you could throw $50,000 in the stock market while still being able to buy stuff with your money currently in the market. IDK tho cause i know the stock market also = risk, similar to bitcoins. But if bitcoins were somewhat stable, this reality wouldnt be too far-fetched i guess. You need to stop thinking about the BTC as an investment... For the BTC to be used as a currency, people need to treat it as a currency. Just like if you trade USD to Euro you aren't thinking you are invest money, you are just using a different medium of exchange. If we are under the impression that the goal of the BTC is to create a virtual currency, it cannot be a stock market. I will list my biggest issues with bitcoin right now: 1) If fractional reserve banking is used (which it must if it is to be a viable currency), it is a lot more likely that if there is no government backing of the bitcoin that if there is a change in price many people will try to cash their bitcoins, and the banks will not have enough money. Then you get bank runs, and it's good game. Don't really see how this is preventable. 2) Deflation. Coins can be easily lost, hoarding will be an issue as long as another currency exists. No human behavior will be able to offset all the deflation of bitcoins. Deflation leads to many bad things: wages, reduce spending (slows economy). 3) No fees is totally bullshit. Check the exchanges, they have fees, actually very high fees, I don't know why people keep trying to advertise no fees. I have no fees using my visa, I get fees using bitcoins. Check here: https://www.mtgox.com/fee-schedule.... It will actually be just like paper money in that regard, there will still be a banking system. There will always be a banking system with the same mechanic as you have now. I'm uncertain why people think this wouldn't be the case? 4) The markets for trading suck. Unlike currency exchange where it's much easier to keep it secure, the bit-coin markets must constantly keep up with technology to prevent any breaches, I honestly don't trust a privately run company to be able to do that. Geez Mtgox can't even convert many peoples' money to USD within 2 months. You just need government regulation to make it safe, but that defeats the purpose. Why do you think the price varies so wildly between exchanges? LOTS of fees and trouble converting to cash. 5) Bitcoins are very bad for the government. When there is a 2% inflation rate and the government prints the money to maintain the inflation rate at 2%... It practically gives the government free money, as well as the control over its money supply. Bitcoins, and everything about them would be a nightmare to deal with for governments. Government sacrifices lots of power by not being able to control the money supply. The stability of the currency weakens when the supply cannot be controlled. There will be pressure to prevent bitcoins from becoming the dominant currency. 6) Actually there's quite a lot more issues, and they aren't easy ones to solve. People are being too optimistic imo. currency trading has always been a thing tho. One of my buddies dads has been a currency trader for the past 30 years and has made plenty of money off of it. Whether it is a smart thing is the question. Did he beat the 30 year stock market average on annual rate of return? How much time did he spend doing so? I'm always extremely skeptical of commodity trading and day trading. There seems to be so much risk and so little means to actually give yourself a true advantage in the long run. Piggy backing on this: everyone keeps saying that bitcoin is going to go only higher and higher...Bitcoin already has passed that $1000 line you really think a currency like this is going to just keep going up and up? It is going to crash sooner or later. Hard (it won't bounce back to what it was previously down in the future). The bubble is there and it will burst. Back when bitcoins were kinda young then yes they would be a pretty sound investment. An underground currency that bypasses lot of security and watchdogs. Currency that has digital properties (strong, secure). Now the current stage the bitcoins are at make them quite risky. IMO the market for them is no different than the penny stock market...and everyone knows about that hell
I know better than to argue with someone who speaks in absolutes on something that he literally 100% cannot prove lol. Seriously every1 is entitled to their opinion or view on the matter, but stating matter of factly what is going to happen, is your best guess, as much as other people are guessing they become worth more.
Will never understand people who make statements like this. Tell me is there a God too? I am sure you have that one nailed. Also on what day will you die o wise seer?
And to the guy with the question, currency trading has been his career for the past 30+ years. Last time I talked to him he had just gotten back from his vacation in Dubai.
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On December 03 2013 14:32 MaestroSC wrote:
And to the guy with the question, currency trading has been his career for the past 30+ years. Last time I talked to him he had just gotten back from his vacation in Dubai.
and how grateful to him we all are
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Some guy was saying that there are heaps of fees... Yeah there are exhange fees but why do you care? You can send as much money to anyone as you want with bitcoin and see no fees... try to do that with your credit card. Name another zero-fee digital currency transfer? 
Paypal takes a cut, visa/mastercard take a cut... everyone takes a cut! And you pay monthly fees for bank accounts in general. That's what the no fees thing is and frankly, it sounds fantastic.
The problem at the moment is the instability of the currency. That fact that the price keeps appreciating makes me wary of using it... I'm better off holding on to the coins than I am using them...
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On December 03 2013 16:09 magicmUnky wrote:Some guy was saying that there are heaps of fees... Yeah there are exhange fees but why do you care? You can send as much money to anyone as you want with bitcoin and see no fees... try to do that with your credit card. Name another zero-fee digital currency transfer? Paypal takes a cut, visa/mastercard take a cut... everyone takes a cut! And you pay monthly fees for bank accounts in general. That's what the no fees thing is and frankly, it sounds fantastic. The problem at the moment is the instability of the currency. That fact that the price keeps appreciating makes me wary of using it... I'm better off holding on to the coins than I am using them...
Someone was talking about how an advantage of bitcoins was that they had no fees. This obviously isn't true.
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On December 03 2013 16:43 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 16:09 magicmUnky wrote:Some guy was saying that there are heaps of fees... Yeah there are exhange fees but why do you care? You can send as much money to anyone as you want with bitcoin and see no fees... try to do that with your credit card. Name another zero-fee digital currency transfer? Paypal takes a cut, visa/mastercard take a cut... everyone takes a cut! And you pay monthly fees for bank accounts in general. That's what the no fees thing is and frankly, it sounds fantastic. The problem at the moment is the instability of the currency. That fact that the price keeps appreciating makes me wary of using it... I'm better off holding on to the coins than I am using them... Someone was talking about how an advantage of bitcoins was that they had no fees. This obviously isn't true.
because they are exchanging into it, making a transaction, and exchanging out of it
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On December 03 2013 16:57 sam!zdat wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 16:43 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 03 2013 16:09 magicmUnky wrote:Some guy was saying that there are heaps of fees... Yeah there are exhange fees but why do you care? You can send as much money to anyone as you want with bitcoin and see no fees... try to do that with your credit card. Name another zero-fee digital currency transfer? Paypal takes a cut, visa/mastercard take a cut... everyone takes a cut! And you pay monthly fees for bank accounts in general. That's what the no fees thing is and frankly, it sounds fantastic. The problem at the moment is the instability of the currency. That fact that the price keeps appreciating makes me wary of using it... I'm better off holding on to the coins than I am using them... Someone was talking about how an advantage of bitcoins was that they had no fees. This obviously isn't true. because they are exchanging into it, making a transaction, and exchanging out of it
Just be aware that you aren't "removing the useless middlemen" like many people who hate banks want to do when they use bitcoins.
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On December 03 2013 17:22 obesechicken13 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 03 2013 16:57 sam!zdat wrote:On December 03 2013 16:43 obesechicken13 wrote:On December 03 2013 16:09 magicmUnky wrote:Some guy was saying that there are heaps of fees... Yeah there are exhange fees but why do you care? You can send as much money to anyone as you want with bitcoin and see no fees... try to do that with your credit card. Name another zero-fee digital currency transfer? Paypal takes a cut, visa/mastercard take a cut... everyone takes a cut! And you pay monthly fees for bank accounts in general. That's what the no fees thing is and frankly, it sounds fantastic. The problem at the moment is the instability of the currency. That fact that the price keeps appreciating makes me wary of using it... I'm better off holding on to the coins than I am using them... Someone was talking about how an advantage of bitcoins was that they had no fees. This obviously isn't true. because they are exchanging into it, making a transaction, and exchanging out of it Just be aware that you aren't "removing the useless middlemen" like many people who hate banks want to do when they use bitcoins.
you would be, if you used it as a currency. but then you have to get paid in bitcoin. are there any jobs paid in bitcoin that aren't drug dealers and hitmen?
(i think bitcoin is stupid fwiw)
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EPT
