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On April 03 2013 06:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 06:02 SheepleArePeopleToo wrote:On April 03 2013 02:47 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 03 2013 02:00 DreamChaser wrote:On April 03 2013 01:20 Rash wrote:On April 02 2013 20:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'm surprised tbh, TL seems very cosmopolitan and non-nationalistic at times, but in this thread the consensus seems to be that this is a good/necessary things.
Also, for those saying that their service was beneficial/'taught discipline' etc, I don't disagree but can some of you expand on what you mean? There's an interesting discussion to be had, I for one don't think that accepting orders and working hard are necessarily inherently good things. On the positive side, I think it's an institutionalized way to make sure everybody knows the value of hard work, of camaraderie and of dealing with hard situations. For some it's also their first experience outside the comfort of a protective enviroment like school, family, etc.On the negative side, it's true that many of these values get associated with foolish nationalism, in which the falacy of: "Because it's hard work and I grew as a person by doing it, the institution that forced me into it must live by those values", which of course isn't. I want to say it's a way to ensure at least once in a person's life, specially as brand new adults, we understand/experience the above values. It's not the best one, and its effectiveness varies from person to person, but since your ability to get a job highly depends on it, it's maybe the best "massive" way for a government to ensure that growing step is taken (aside from all the other admin/military benefits). Since governments have to deal with HUGE ammounts of ppl, they aim for the standard, without considering the tails of the distribution. You make a great point here and i want to put up a sort of moral question, at what point is it the responsibility of the government to install "values" on their citizens. Yes its great to install hard work ethics and such but on the very far spectrum did the Nazi's not do the same thing? different countries do it differently. The US doesn't have conscription--but it does spend a lot of media and political efforts to demonize welfare programs and to encourage "tie your own bootstraps" thinking. The Nazis went to the Nth degree in instilling culture to its people, but the Bolshevik revolution actually went the opposite route of having the royalty and government officials killed off to free the people of their influence. Somewhere between Nazi propaganda and Military revolution would be a nice in between. What do you mean? Majority of americans think it's better to live off welfare and the own bootstraps thing are being demonized. This isn't the 50s anymore. I guess you missed the part where I said "media and political efforts" Nations who conscript are not filled with pro war nuts much like the US with Fox News is not filled with conservative bigots.
What I mean is it's the opposite of what the media and political efforts are saying.
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On April 03 2013 06:29 SheepleArePeopleToo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 06:27 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 03 2013 06:02 SheepleArePeopleToo wrote:On April 03 2013 02:47 Thieving Magpie wrote:On April 03 2013 02:00 DreamChaser wrote:On April 03 2013 01:20 Rash wrote:On April 02 2013 20:19 Wombat_NI wrote:
I'm surprised tbh, TL seems very cosmopolitan and non-nationalistic at times, but in this thread the consensus seems to be that this is a good/necessary things.
Also, for those saying that their service was beneficial/'taught discipline' etc, I don't disagree but can some of you expand on what you mean? There's an interesting discussion to be had, I for one don't think that accepting orders and working hard are necessarily inherently good things. On the positive side, I think it's an institutionalized way to make sure everybody knows the value of hard work, of camaraderie and of dealing with hard situations. For some it's also their first experience outside the comfort of a protective enviroment like school, family, etc.On the negative side, it's true that many of these values get associated with foolish nationalism, in which the falacy of: "Because it's hard work and I grew as a person by doing it, the institution that forced me into it must live by those values", which of course isn't. I want to say it's a way to ensure at least once in a person's life, specially as brand new adults, we understand/experience the above values. It's not the best one, and its effectiveness varies from person to person, but since your ability to get a job highly depends on it, it's maybe the best "massive" way for a government to ensure that growing step is taken (aside from all the other admin/military benefits). Since governments have to deal with HUGE ammounts of ppl, they aim for the standard, without considering the tails of the distribution. You make a great point here and i want to put up a sort of moral question, at what point is it the responsibility of the government to install "values" on their citizens. Yes its great to install hard work ethics and such but on the very far spectrum did the Nazi's not do the same thing? different countries do it differently. The US doesn't have conscription--but it does spend a lot of media and political efforts to demonize welfare programs and to encourage "tie your own bootstraps" thinking. The Nazis went to the Nth degree in instilling culture to its people, but the Bolshevik revolution actually went the opposite route of having the royalty and government officials killed off to free the people of their influence. Somewhere between Nazi propaganda and Military revolution would be a nice in between. What do you mean? Majority of americans think it's better to live off welfare and the own bootstraps thing are being demonized. This isn't the 50s anymore. I guess you missed the part where I said "media and political efforts" Nations who conscript are not filled with pro war nuts much like the US with Fox News is not filled with conservative bigots. What I mean is it's the opposite of what the media and political efforts are saying.
I agree with that 
Much like most countries that do conscription are not in any direct danger yet. Which is why I thought the comparison was apt.
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I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this.
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On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this.
Mandatory one year ? That's insane.
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On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this.
I'm a pacifist. I refuse to blindly take killing orders from old white people so I can gain some sort of bullshit "mental discipline."
I'd rather spend time in a prison cell than ever do anything to support or work for the military. Forcing me into it isn't going to change that.
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On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this.
I'd rather it be some kind of public service that may or may not be military. I still think only volunteers should go to the front lines (outside of some incomparable crisis, which hasn't happened in a long time for first-world countries), but public service would help break down social barriers and form a more united public.
We don't need more soldiers, but we certainly need more public good. For the US, at least.
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On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this.
Wouldn't this be better done by simply increasing the requirements for passing physical education courses in school?
In other words, have the goal of physical education classes be regimented discipline and physical exertion? So say, instead "let's play a sport" it is instead doing marches, push-ups, sports every now and then, constant focus on regulation and grading people based on performance and discipline.
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On April 03 2013 07:21 Enchanted wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. Mandatory one year ? That's insane.
Why is that insane?On April 03 2013 07:26 Glurkenspurk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'm a pacifist. I refuse to blindly take killing orders from old white people so I can gain some sort of bullshit "mental discipline." I'd rather spend time in a prison cell than ever do anything to support or work for the military. Forcing me into it isn't going to change that.
Who said anything about killing orders? You think military training involves murder?On April 03 2013 07:27 Acritter wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'd rather it be some kind of public service that may or may not be military. I still think only volunteers should go to the front lines (outside of some incomparable crisis, which hasn't happened in a long time for first-world countries), but public service would help break down social barriers and form a more united public. We don't need more soldiers, but we certainly need more public good. For the US, at least.
I agree, only those who want to go to the front lines should go, that's what I posted. Public service could be a regular activity in the process also.
There seems to be a degree of confusion over my suggestion.
Military training does not involve killing people or going to the front lines =/
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Northern Ireland25241 Posts
What does that instill though?
I mean, if I was to advocate any sort of programme, it would just be some kind of civic/military training for those on unemployment benefit. Essentially, they work for their benefits, and they get something to do to ease the sometimes incredibly depressing existence that that entails.
Otherwise, I don't see how forcing people to put off studying/travelling or whatever they wish to do for a year, if they have the means to do and make them do some kind of mandatory service.
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On April 03 2013 10:12 Reason wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 07:21 Enchanted wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. Mandatory one year ? That's insane. Why is that insane? Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 07:26 Glurkenspurk wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'm a pacifist. I refuse to blindly take killing orders from old white people so I can gain some sort of bullshit "mental discipline." I'd rather spend time in a prison cell than ever do anything to support or work for the military. Forcing me into it isn't going to change that. Who said anything about killing orders? You think military training involves murder? Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 07:27 Acritter wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'd rather it be some kind of public service that may or may not be military. I still think only volunteers should go to the front lines (outside of some incomparable crisis, which hasn't happened in a long time for first-world countries), but public service would help break down social barriers and form a more united public. We don't need more soldiers, but we certainly need more public good. For the US, at least. I agree, only those who want to go to the front lines should go, that's what I posted. Public service could be a regular activity in the process also. There seems to be a degree of confusion over my suggestion. Military training does not involve killing people or going to the front lines =/
Military training however is a complete waste of time within the modern society. You are advocating that everyone should be forced to waste a year of their life, trudging around in the mud, doing mundane pointless tasks playing an adult version of boyscouts out of some misconceived perception that it will actually benefit society through "improved physical fitness and mental discipline" (whatever mental discipline is supposed to mean? Mindlessly following orders?). Society will benefit more from having everyone take an extra year of education than crawling in mud and generally people do not like being forced to do stuff. The conscription-based army is an archaic institution in the western part of the world which can really only be abolished too late.
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You guys do kinda know that its the 21st century now right? NK has the third largest standing force, but who is afraid? the whole world doesn't care until NK developes nukes because technology wins wars and not numbers.
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On April 03 2013 10:34 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 10:12 Reason wrote:On April 03 2013 07:21 Enchanted wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. Mandatory one year ? That's insane. Why is that insane? On April 03 2013 07:26 Glurkenspurk wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'm a pacifist. I refuse to blindly take killing orders from old white people so I can gain some sort of bullshit "mental discipline." I'd rather spend time in a prison cell than ever do anything to support or work for the military. Forcing me into it isn't going to change that. Who said anything about killing orders? You think military training involves murder? On April 03 2013 07:27 Acritter wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'd rather it be some kind of public service that may or may not be military. I still think only volunteers should go to the front lines (outside of some incomparable crisis, which hasn't happened in a long time for first-world countries), but public service would help break down social barriers and form a more united public. We don't need more soldiers, but we certainly need more public good. For the US, at least. I agree, only those who want to go to the front lines should go, that's what I posted. Public service could be a regular activity in the process also. There seems to be a degree of confusion over my suggestion. Military training does not involve killing people or going to the front lines =/ Military training however is a complete waste of time within the modern society. You are advocating that everyone should be forced to waste a year of their life, trudging around in the mud, doing mundane pointless tasks playing an adult version of boyscouts out of some misconceived perception that it will actually benefit society through "improved physical fitness and mental discipline" (whatever mental discipline is supposed to mean? Mindlessly following orders?). Society will benefit more from having everyone take an extra year of education than crawling in mud and generally people do not like being forced to do stuff. The conscription-based army is an archaic institution in the western part of the world which can really only be abolished too late.
I agree with this sentiment, and that's why I think it should be some kind of generic public service. The benefits of something similar to military service are that it applies to the entire citizenry regardless of social, ethnic, or other standing. Every citizen is forced to work together without regards to anything but their nationality. This is of huge benefit to all the citizens involved, as it breaks down barriers and actively works towards egalitarian goals. That's why I'd support such an end.
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I strongly agree with the notion that conscription is sexist. If they cannot do it fairly, they should not do it at all.
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Northern Ireland25241 Posts
Women just have it so easy right?
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On April 03 2013 10:34 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 10:12 Reason wrote:On April 03 2013 07:21 Enchanted wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. Mandatory one year ? That's insane. Why is that insane? On April 03 2013 07:26 Glurkenspurk wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'm a pacifist. I refuse to blindly take killing orders from old white people so I can gain some sort of bullshit "mental discipline." I'd rather spend time in a prison cell than ever do anything to support or work for the military. Forcing me into it isn't going to change that. Who said anything about killing orders? You think military training involves murder? On April 03 2013 07:27 Acritter wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'd rather it be some kind of public service that may or may not be military. I still think only volunteers should go to the front lines (outside of some incomparable crisis, which hasn't happened in a long time for first-world countries), but public service would help break down social barriers and form a more united public. We don't need more soldiers, but we certainly need more public good. For the US, at least. I agree, only those who want to go to the front lines should go, that's what I posted. Public service could be a regular activity in the process also. There seems to be a degree of confusion over my suggestion. Military training does not involve killing people or going to the front lines =/ Military training however is a complete waste of time within the modern society. You are advocating that everyone should be forced to waste a year of their life, trudging around in the mud, doing mundane pointless tasks playing an adult version of boyscouts out of some misconceived perception that it will actually benefit society through "improved physical fitness and mental discipline" (whatever mental discipline is supposed to mean? Mindlessly following orders?). Society will benefit more from having everyone take an extra year of education than crawling in mud and generally people do not like being forced to do stuff. The conscription-based army is an archaic institution in the western part of the world which can really only be abolished too late.
I'm pretty much insulted by this statement, and I'm sure any other serving member of a military would be as well.
"waste a year of their life, trudging around in the mud, doing mundane pointless tasks playing an adult version of boyscouts out of some misconceived perception that it will actually benefit society through "improved physical fitness and mental discipline""
^^ I'm a member of the Royal Canadian Navy. I've successfully completed Basic Training. It took 14 weeks. I believe everyone would benefit from taking this training. It's not an adult version of boy scouts, nor is it a bunch of crawling around in the mud. We do not mindlessly follow orders. We're trained to think rationally for ourselves, and only in very extreme cases would we be ordered into harms way, or to kill someone.
Your misguided, ignorant view of what military's do seems like it's based on what you see in movies, specifically American military movies. You mention conscription based armies ar part of an archaic western society? I'm sure you've heard of South Korea since you're here on TL.
I understand this is the internet and everyone is entitled to their opinion, and they generally choose to have very extreme opinions since there's no accountability for what they say, but your gross generalization of military members is a bit much.
I'm from Canada. We're not forced to join, and we rarely speak out against other countries, but I'll be god damned if someone's gonna shit all over the forces and say we're a bunch of adult boy scouts.
You have no idea what you're talking about. Discipline benefits us all. Without it, we're just a bunch of lazy fucks. Some people are born with it, others need to learn it, some never do.
Eh?
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Northern Ireland25241 Posts
Why does every person in the armed forces seem to take some kind of personal offence to people who dislike the idea of the military?
If you gained from it, and think others would, what do you gain?
As a scout, if anything I take offence for being compared to the forces :p
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On April 03 2013 10:34 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 10:12 Reason wrote:On April 03 2013 07:21 Enchanted wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. Mandatory one year ? That's insane. Why is that insane? On April 03 2013 07:26 Glurkenspurk wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'm a pacifist. I refuse to blindly take killing orders from old white people so I can gain some sort of bullshit "mental discipline." I'd rather spend time in a prison cell than ever do anything to support or work for the military. Forcing me into it isn't going to change that. Who said anything about killing orders? You think military training involves murder? On April 03 2013 07:27 Acritter wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'd rather it be some kind of public service that may or may not be military. I still think only volunteers should go to the front lines (outside of some incomparable crisis, which hasn't happened in a long time for first-world countries), but public service would help break down social barriers and form a more united public. We don't need more soldiers, but we certainly need more public good. For the US, at least. I agree, only those who want to go to the front lines should go, that's what I posted. Public service could be a regular activity in the process also. There seems to be a degree of confusion over my suggestion. Military training does not involve killing people or going to the front lines =/ Military training however is a complete waste of time within the modern society. You are advocating that everyone should be forced to waste a year of their life, trudging around in the mud, doing mundane pointless tasks playing an adult version of boyscouts out of some misconceived perception that it will actually benefit society through "improved physical fitness and mental discipline" (whatever mental discipline is supposed to mean? Mindlessly following orders?). Society will benefit more from having everyone take an extra year of education than crawling in mud and generally people do not like being forced to do stuff. The conscription-based army is an archaic institution in the western part of the world which can really only be abolished too late.
You are speaking from ignorance. I am from one of the few countries in the world that has forced conscription (2years full time+ 10+years on standby).
Yes this is years of my life taken from me by law that I cant get back, but the benefits we get from it is intangible. There's the friends & buddies that i make during my NS life, there's the life experience of doing military things that civilian wont get to do.
How could you quantify our time spent in service of our nations as playing an adult version of boyscouts. If you have no idea what is it like in a military life, please do not speak up like you know what we do.
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On April 03 2013 07:26 Glurkenspurk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'm a pacifist. I refuse to blindly take killing orders from old white people so I can gain some sort of bullshit "mental discipline." I'd rather spend time in a prison cell than ever do anything to support or work for the military. Forcing me into it isn't going to change that.
Yeah military service is to straighten up hippies like you
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Northern Ireland25241 Posts
Aye because shit, people need 'straightened-up' by being co-opted into compulsory service.
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On April 03 2013 12:38 Mithhaike wrote:Show nested quote +On April 03 2013 10:34 Ghostcom wrote:On April 03 2013 10:12 Reason wrote:On April 03 2013 07:21 Enchanted wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. Mandatory one year ? That's insane. Why is that insane? On April 03 2013 07:26 Glurkenspurk wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'm a pacifist. I refuse to blindly take killing orders from old white people so I can gain some sort of bullshit "mental discipline." I'd rather spend time in a prison cell than ever do anything to support or work for the military. Forcing me into it isn't going to change that. Who said anything about killing orders? You think military training involves murder? On April 03 2013 07:27 Acritter wrote:On April 03 2013 07:05 Reason wrote:
I think every citizen should be forced to spend 1 year in military training with no strings attached.
Mental discipline and physical fitness are always going to benefit a population.
These people cannot be conscripted, you just hopefully have a nation of more productive and united citizens.
I would assume a greater number of people would decide to continue in the military after having experienced it too, and also those who decide otherwise can change their minds if the country is ever in dire need.
I'd suggest after finishing high school/formal education and immediately before college/university would be a good time to do this. I'd rather it be some kind of public service that may or may not be military. I still think only volunteers should go to the front lines (outside of some incomparable crisis, which hasn't happened in a long time for first-world countries), but public service would help break down social barriers and form a more united public. We don't need more soldiers, but we certainly need more public good. For the US, at least. I agree, only those who want to go to the front lines should go, that's what I posted. Public service could be a regular activity in the process also. There seems to be a degree of confusion over my suggestion. Military training does not involve killing people or going to the front lines =/ Military training however is a complete waste of time within the modern society. You are advocating that everyone should be forced to waste a year of their life, trudging around in the mud, doing mundane pointless tasks playing an adult version of boyscouts out of some misconceived perception that it will actually benefit society through "improved physical fitness and mental discipline" (whatever mental discipline is supposed to mean? Mindlessly following orders?). Society will benefit more from having everyone take an extra year of education than crawling in mud and generally people do not like being forced to do stuff. The conscription-based army is an archaic institution in the western part of the world which can really only be abolished too late. You are speaking from ignorance. I am from one of the few countries in the world that has forced conscription (2years full time+ 10+years on standby). Yes this is years of my life taken from me by law that I cant get back, but the benefits we get from it is intangible. There's the friends & buddies that i make during my NS life, there's the life experience of doing military things that civilian wont get to do. How could you quantify our time spent in service of our nations as playing an adult version of boyscouts. If you have no idea what is it like in a military life, please do not speak up like you know what we do.
Maybe he's speaking from his friend's experience.
Like I posted already, 2 good friends of mine consider 1 year in the military as a complete and unpleasant waste of time. And I have no reason to not believe them at all. Oh and they don't know anyone from their company (or whatever it's called there) and never wanted to.
And I don't need to experience those things by myself, I'll be a civilian with work, gf and few useless hobbies such as gaming. I'm not gonna cry about some things I never will experience in military or somewhere else. Why? Because it's just not something I want to do/spend my life on.
So yes, in my eyes it's the same as the slave labor. I have nothing against those who are willing to serve though.
But it's a big difference, doing something you chose to or being forced to do it. Almost like a sex vs rape difference.
Anyway, that discussion always ends the same way.
"You're weaklings, army will make you a man" type of guys vs "it's a total waste of time and I'll/did anything to avoid it" ones.
It's hard to both of those types to understand each other. We have a completely different opinion on that.
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