EPTIntroversion Awareness - Page 6
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On December 21 2012 11:20 Shival wrote: Introvert =/= shy. That's a very common mistake people make, but introverts are not by definition shy, they can be just as bold and certain of themselves as extroverts can be. They may not show it as often as extroverts do, but that has no bearing on whether they are shy. Err... So introverts are less likely to show themselves, but they are not shy by definition? I thought the definition of being shy is to be less inclined to show yourself? | ||
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HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
On December 21 2012 11:37 RavenLoud wrote: Err... So introverts are less likely to show themselves, but they are not shy by definition? I thought the definition of being shy is to be less inclined to show yourself? Being shy is being unable. Introverts aren't unable, they just choose their moments and do so well. A shy introvert, though, that's someone who you never really see or hear. On December 21 2012 11:36 Evangelist wrote: There are a lot of people who treat their Meyer code as a thing to be proud of. I think I've been tested externally on 2-3 different occasions and as with most people on the low end of the autistic spectrum I come out as INTJ. However while it does influence my pattern of thinking, it is something I find myself actively trying to overcome. Medication helps a lot - shuts down a lot of the internal doubts and nonsense. Personally I think your designation shifts with maturity. It's taken me nearly three decades to finally get comfortable with social situations. If you can drink happily with mates at 18, have a girlfriend and are socially adept then you aren't as introverted as you think are you. I don't think you understand. None of these things contradict being an introvert and if you think so you should go back to reading the OP. You don't have to be socially retarded to be introvert or vice versa. | ||
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Sprungjeezy
United States1313 Posts
On December 21 2012 11:37 RavenLoud wrote: Err... So introverts are less likely to show themselves, but they are not shy by definition? I thought the definition of being shy is to be less inclined to show yourself? There's a big difference between wanting to be noticed, not giving a fuck either way, and wanting to stay hidden. | ||
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Luepert
United States1933 Posts
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r.Evo
Germany14080 Posts
The following statements generally apply to me: I am seen as “outgoing” or as a “people person.” I feel comfortable in groups and like working in them. I have a wide range of friends and know lots of people. I sometimes jump too quickly into an activity and don’t allow enough time to think it over. Before I start a project, I sometimes forget to stop and get clear on what I want to do and why. The following statements generally apply to me: I am seen as “reflective” or “reserved.” I feel comfortable being alone and like things I can do on my own. I prefer to know just a few people well. I sometimes spend too much time reflecting and don’t move into action quickly enough. I sometimes forget to check with the outside world to see if my ideas really fit the experience. For example, all of the above are pretty obvious examples of cold reading. Most people know lots of people and most people prefer to know just a few people well. Being reflective/reserved vs outgoing/a people person aren't opposites. Being comfortable in groups and being comfortable alone isn't mutually exclusive. I mean, sure it can be a great help if you try to find something that you can identify yourself with but you're basically not talking about more or less than someone who says "I'm homosexual and I'm living the homosexual lifestyle now!" or "I am a woman and I fight for women rights!" - This doesn't help anyone involved, it just makes it so that people try to behave like the niche they believe that they are most comfortable in. Making people believe that it's "normal" to never step out of their comfort zone is equivalent to preventing them from personal growth. Stepping up and saying "I am a proud introvert" so to speak puts you further in a category that, most likely, no single person on this planet dead or alive fits into. People are people, not quotes and not introverts or extroverts per definition for all of their lifes. If you look at some of the "personality test" pages you provide as sources (e.g. http://www.personalitypage.com/html/portraits.html) you can click on ANY of the personality types, read it to ANY person and they will most likely tell you that about 70-75% is something they'll agree on. Then you mention "Introvert-Friendly Jobs & Career Fields" and start one list with "Minimal People Interaction". The ability to interact with people is a skill like any other. It improves with practice, it can be taught and it can be learned. There is nothing "magic" about "not being good with people". There is no divine intervention that made it so person xyz is bad at interacting with people and there should be no drawer you can put people in to give them a justification for lacking in a certain area. You're not raising awareness, you're hyping to kingdom come. It's equivalent to meaning "I'm depressed" and saying "I have a depression". There is no higher power that can tell you how to behave. By giving your higher power a name ("introversion") and certain attributes that everyone who adheres to it shares you are glorifying it, you remove the personal responsibility for the individuals actions and therefor, once again, prevent personal growth. | ||
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Mstring
Australia510 Posts
On December 21 2012 11:32 Barrin wrote: That's really what it comes down to. What he doesn't realize is that it's him putting a 'label' on labels. I've been there. Again, you're doing me. "He doesn't realize X", "You're too Y", "You are Z". These are all assumptions that you can foolishly choose to accept as truth, or leave them as an unknown and seek further if you are curious to the possibilities. Denying possibilities diminishes freedom. This is exactly analogous to my gripes with the introversion/extroversion concept. Good luck brother. | ||
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
You'll be having plenty of brainstorming, plenty of meetings and all that kind of stuff. My advice is to get over your self definition, stop pretending introversions is an advantage, change your thinking style to suit and get used to socializing because you're going to need to do it. | ||
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ticklishmusic
United States15977 Posts
On December 21 2012 11:44 Evangelist wrote: Oh and by the by. If you think you can escape "extroversion" by joining academia, think again. You'll spend about half your life at conferences and the other half with colleagues working on group projects and grants. You will be forced, frequently, to give presentations in front of 100+ people, all of which are dying to ensure you fall flat on your arse. You'll be having plenty of brainstorming, plenty of meetings and all that kind of stuff. My advice is to get over your self definition, stop pretending introversions is an advantage, change your thinking style to suit and get used to socializing because you're going to need to do it. But at least you'll be talking about things you actually care about, which is kind of the point. I'm also in the business school at my university (though I'm aiming for med school). I sometimes go to networking events with friends so I can canoodle with representatives from like JP Morgan, PWC, Goldman Sachs and other business-y places. I go to them because the hors d'ouevres are usually pretty good, but I think a lot of it is pretty stupid (I could care less about your cousin's wedding and the weather in Vermont). Still, that's apparently what business is about-- rubbing shoulders and getting phone numbers and such. I'm also damn good at it, which makes me feel like a manipulative bastard muahahahahaha. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On December 21 2012 11:37 RavenLoud wrote: We aren't shy, we just don't put ourselves out there unless there is a need for it. There is no fear involved in social interaction (a hallmark of shyness is being scared or self-conscious about socializing with others), just we need more of a motivation for it. It is just like how introverts hate small talk, we need a purpose to our conversations other than to fill noise.Err... So introverts are less likely to show themselves, but they are not shy by definition? I thought the definition of being shy is to be less inclined to show yourself? As an example, I don't talk to people unless that conversation has a purpose (except in the case of friends. But most of my friends know I am a rather laconic person). I don't start conversations but if someone wants to talk to me I am perfectly fine with that. Introverts don't mind social interaction, we just don't have a need for it like extroverts do. | ||
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HellRoxYa
Sweden1614 Posts
Fact is people need different levels of interhuman interaction. It's not about a "comfort zone", it's about what makes you feel good and what makes you feel not so good and tired. | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On December 21 2012 11:41 Sprungjeezy wrote: There's a big difference between wanting to be noticed, not giving a fuck either way, and wanting to stay hidden. Ah I see, maybe I just had a broader understanding of the word "shy" than I should. Anyway, I tested INTP and it seems to fit fairly well. I'm absolutely in the "not giving a fuck either way" camp. | ||
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Caihead
Canada8550 Posts
On December 21 2012 11:41 Sprungjeezy wrote: There's a big difference between wanting to be noticed, not giving a fuck either way, and wanting to stay hidden. Being shy isn't derogatory, don't take offense, it's a perfectly normal observation. Shy is a perfectly good word to describe SHYING AWAY from social interaction, that's the bloody term. You can be a extrovert or an introvert and be suspicious of others, bashful, timid, and all of the other characterizations of being shy, it doesn't matter. The term only gains a derogatory context if you forcibly interject the fact that if you aren't engaging in social interaction you are a social failure. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On December 21 2012 11:48 RavenLoud wrote: Ah, now you are getting it. We just don't have the need for social interaction and are perfectly fine lone-wolfing it.Ah I see, maybe I just had a broader understanding of the word "shy" than I should. Anyway, I tested INTP and it seems to fit fairly well. I'm absolutely in the "not giving a fuck either way" camp. Edit: Thinking about this topic, it is pretty funny. The OP talks about introverts forcing themselves to be extroverts or having their parents try to do that when they were children. My parents were never like that. The only person who made fun of me for being fine with staying home and doing my own thing was my brother, who himself was an introvert who forced himself to be an extrovert. Before he forced himself to fit in during the latter part of high school he stayed home just as much as I do now. My parents have always accepted how I am. Rather than pressuring me to hang out with people, they used to just ask what I was doing and I would talk to them about it and that was that. | ||
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
On December 21 2012 11:40 HellRoxYa wrote: Being shy is being unable. Introverts aren't unable, they just choose their moments and do so well. A shy introvert, though, that's someone who you never really see or hear. I don't think you understand. None of these things contradict being an introvert and if you think so you should go back to reading the OP. You don't have to be socially retarded to be introvert or vice versa. Seriously introverted people are almost always socially retarded. More often than not, they tend to be autistic too. You cannot walk into a room full of people and be comfortable with it and still be completely introverted. It just is not possible because an introvert has virtually no understanding of how other people think or behave - constantly judging and guesstimating their behaviour based on what other people do. If you are capable of passably socializing with a large group of people, you are not completely introverted. Trust me on this. I used to be a teacher. I work in academia. Introversion may be a way of thinking/responding to stimuli but severe introversion has a crippling effect on the ability to socialise with other people. It is not a secret club. It is definitely not a big, amazing label to have - some secret power of thinking or understanding. It is, in fact, often crippling to the way in which academics collaborate to the point where courses are given to academics solely to overcome this problem!! So no. If you have developed more or less normally and you prefer your own company but are able to function fine in human society, you are at best mildly introverted. You are not severely introverted. | ||
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SweeTLemonS[TPR]
11739 Posts
On December 21 2012 09:43 Brosy wrote: I am an INTJ and its something that I've constantly have to try and hide or pretend I am not. It is unfortunate that many companies have a biased against personality types. I made it to the final round of an interview with a fortune 500 firm and, while not told explicitly introverts were unwanted, they made it clear in the interviews and networking event that "outgoing" people make better employees. I think this is something that people make a big mistake in. By outgoing they just want someone who is willing to take a risk, and doesn't need 100% of all possible scenarios tested before doing something: i.e. they don't want overly analytic people who never make a decision (analysis paralysis). Of course, some degree of analysis is necessary, as one would want to make an informed decision, but at some point the conclusion must be reached that enough data is present, and X looks more likely to succeed, so X will be done. Now, X may end up being wrong; it's very possible that Y was a better solution, but without taking the risk on X (risky because of an incomplete set of data), it would never have been discovered that Y was the better option. In many cases, choosing X and being wrong leads to a less disastrous situation than never having done anything at all. If nothing else, the business has learned what not to do, and that is often as important as knowing what to do. So employers then confuse the idea of being "outgoing" with someone who will make good decisions. The problem is that they don't actually understand what they're seeking. That's how I feel about things, anyway. As for personality, it depends on which questions I'm answering. Both list me as INTP, but the first lists me as only slightly favoring P over J, and a distinct preference to N over S, while the second lists me as slightly favoring N over S and moderately favoring P over J. The situation I'm in also changes my answers to some degree. From the third link, J vs P: + Show Spoiler + J: Plan many of the details in advance before moving into action. P: Comfortable moving into action without a plan; plan on-the-go. Both of those are true depending on the circumstance. If I have something that needs to be done, then absolutely the details are planned in advance. In business scenarios, I prefer some sort of planning beforehand. In a social situation, most of the time I'm fine without a plan, often because I don't want to do any of the options, so no plan = not having to go places. I think I'm really closer to being what Ms Cain called an Ambivert than either an Introvert or Extrovert. I enjoy aspects of both personality types. There are days where I can't sit inside for a moment longer, and there are days where seeing another person makes me cringe (especially if I think that person is going to talk to me). That I can't stop talking once I start (typing here) is a good clue that I lean toward I over E, based on what Cain said. The amount of times I enter a thread, start a response, then hit back because what I'm about to type isn't adding to the discussion can't be counted. + Show Spoiler + Link 1 Introvert(56%) iNtuitive(62%) iNtuitive Thinking(75%) Perceiving(11)% You have moderate preference of Introversion over Extraversion (56%) You have distinctive preference of Intuition over Sensing (62%) You have distinctive preference of Thinking over Feeling (75%) You have slight preference of Perceiving over Judging (11%) Link 2 Introverted (I) 66.67% Extroverted (E) 33.33% Intuitive (N) 55.56% Sensing (S) 44.44% Thinking (T) 64.1% Feeling (F) 35.9% Perceiving (P) 62.16% Judging (J) 37.84% | ||
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RavenLoud
Canada1100 Posts
On December 21 2012 11:47 Ben... wrote: We aren't shy, we just don't put ourselves out there unless there is a need for it. There is no fear involved in social interaction (a hallmark of shyness is being scared or self-conscious about socializing with others), just we need more of a motivation for it. It is just like how introverts hate small talk, we need a purpose to our conversations other than to fill noise. As an example, I don't talk to people unless that conversation has a purpose (except in the case of friends. But most of my friends know I am a rather laconic person). I don't start conversations but if someone wants to talk to me I am perfectly fine with that. Introverts don't mind social interaction, we just don't have a need for it like extroverts do. I never disagreed with that. I'm like that myself as well. However, I don't feel that comfortable with the "we vs. them" thing that's being settled. All I'm saying is that things may not be as much of a dichotomy nor as rigidly deterministic as it seems. Maybe I'm just so used to be introverted that I don't like to group myself with introverts rofl. | ||
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Randomaccount#77123
United States5003 Posts
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deth2munkies
United States4051 Posts
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