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On December 15 2012 12:05 ragz_gt wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:38 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 10:34 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing. Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns. Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15. Pretty sure you never killed anything then. Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
Sorry but I'm pretty sure you have never killed anything or at the very least you're not very well trained in weapons or the martial arts.
A large blade like a machete when used on kids like this could easily kill them just from causing blood loss from a stab that while to a full grown person might not have done quite so much (still does a lot), a chilld would probably be stabbed all the way through and would bleed out significantly faster.
This is not me trying to play devil's advocate or anything but this knowledge is coming from my decades-long expertise in weapons and martial arts. Of course considering the guy is probably not trained like myself, this would also lower the chances he knows where to cut or something. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
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On December 15 2012 13:40 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 12:05 ragz_gt wrote:On December 15 2012 10:38 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 10:34 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing. Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns. Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15. Pretty sure you never killed anything then. Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day. Sorry but I'm pretty sure you have never killed anything or at the very least you're not very well trained in weapons or the martial arts. A large blade like a machete when used on kids like this could easily kill them just from causing blood loss from a stab that while to a full grown person might not have done quite so much (still does a lot), a chilld would probably be stabbed all the way through and would bleed out significantly faster. This is not me trying to play devil's advocate or anything but this knowledge is coming from my decades-long expertise in weapons and martial arts. Of course considering the guy is probably not trained like myself, this would also lower the chances he knows where to cut or something. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't. Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
This is really gross.. I understand the argument and why you guys are having it.. but do you really need to detail how hard or easy it would be to hack up children while people (such as myself) are trying to hold back tears reading about these horrible acts happening..
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On December 15 2012 13:44 Destro wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:40 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 12:05 ragz_gt wrote:On December 15 2012 10:38 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 10:34 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing. Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns. Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15. Pretty sure you never killed anything then. Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day. Sorry but I'm pretty sure you have never killed anything or at the very least you're not very well trained in weapons or the martial arts. A large blade like a machete when used on kids like this could easily kill them just from causing blood loss from a stab that while to a full grown person might not have done quite so much (still does a lot), a chilld would probably be stabbed all the way through and would bleed out significantly faster. This is not me trying to play devil's advocate or anything but this knowledge is coming from my decades-long expertise in weapons and martial arts. Of course considering the guy is probably not trained like myself, this would also lower the chances he knows where to cut or something. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't. Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake. This is really gross.. I understand the argument and why you guys are having it.. but do you really need to detail how hard or easy it would be to hack up children while people (such as myself) are trying to hold back tears reading about these horrible acts happening..
Its a simple discussion. If an expansive and descriptive vocabulary upsets you, then don't read these threads right now.
Most people are still all caught up in their emotions like they were there or something. We don't even know all the details yet from this incident or the one in CT. So far all this is doing is following the same pattern of regular violence and people trying to get all caught up in "PLZ TAKE OUR FREEDOMS FOR SAFETY!".
Here in the US, the smart people have long-since gotten over the cycle. We see it happen literally every time something like this occurs. There's also almost always stuff behind the scenes nobody is willing to acknowledge or investigate. Everything is just blindly accepted at a whim from these media sources.
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On December 15 2012 13:40 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 12:05 ragz_gt wrote:On December 15 2012 10:38 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 10:34 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing. Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns. Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15. Pretty sure you never killed anything then. Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't. Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"?
Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns.
On December 15 2012 13:50 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:44 Destro wrote:On December 15 2012 13:40 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 12:05 ragz_gt wrote:On December 15 2012 10:38 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 10:34 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing. Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns. Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15. Pretty sure you never killed anything then. Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day. Sorry but I'm pretty sure you have never killed anything or at the very least you're not very well trained in weapons or the martial arts. A large blade like a machete when used on kids like this could easily kill them just from causing blood loss from a stab that while to a full grown person might not have done quite so much (still does a lot), a chilld would probably be stabbed all the way through and would bleed out significantly faster. This is not me trying to play devil's advocate or anything but this knowledge is coming from my decades-long expertise in weapons and martial arts. Of course considering the guy is probably not trained like myself, this would also lower the chances he knows where to cut or something. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't. Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake. This is really gross.. I understand the argument and why you guys are having it.. but do you really need to detail how hard or easy it would be to hack up children while people (such as myself) are trying to hold back tears reading about these horrible acts happening.. Its a simple discussion. If an expansive and descriptive vocabulary upsets you, then don't read these threads right now. Most people are still all caught up in their emotions like they were there or something. We don't even know all the details yet from this incident or the one in CT. So far all this is doing is following the same pattern of regular violence and people trying to get all caught up in "PLZ TAKE OUR FREEDOMS FOR SAFETY!". Here in the US, the smart people have long-since gotten over the cycle. We see it happen literally every time something like this occurs. There's also almost always stuff behind the scenes nobody is willing to acknowledge or investigate. Everything is just blindly accepted at a whim from these media sources.
Yeah, people is the US are sure smart to defend the right to own weapons while allowing the Patriot Act.
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On December 15 2012 13:50 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:40 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 12:05 ragz_gt wrote:On December 15 2012 10:38 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 10:34 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing. Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns. Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15. Pretty sure you never killed anything then. Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't. Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake. How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"? Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns.
You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent.
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On December 15 2012 13:52 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:50 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 13:40 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 12:05 ragz_gt wrote:On December 15 2012 10:38 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 10:34 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing. Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns. Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15. Pretty sure you never killed anything then. Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't. Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake. How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"? Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns. You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent.
Bullshit,
Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter?
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On December 15 2012 13:55 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:52 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 13:50 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 13:40 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 12:05 ragz_gt wrote:On December 15 2012 10:38 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 10:34 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing. Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns. Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15. Pretty sure you never killed anything then. Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't. Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake. How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"? Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns. You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent. Bullshit, Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter?
I think he's saying that, ideally, these stupid rampages wouldn't happen and we should strive to prevent and deter this tragedies, no matter the weapon used. I understand where you're coming from in that knives are less potentially lethal than firearms; this story of what happened in China is a good example to substantiate that. But I think sCCrooked, and potentially others, would interpret your statement as something like "It's not that big a deal since it was a knife instead of a gun."
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On December 15 2012 13:55 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:52 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 13:50 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 13:40 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 12:05 ragz_gt wrote:On December 15 2012 10:38 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 10:34 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing. Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns. Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15. Pretty sure you never killed anything then. Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't. Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake. How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"? Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns. You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent. Bullshit, Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter?
You are weighing lives against lives. Stop trying to act like you'd even dare utter to the victims of a tragedy that killed 100 people that the other tragedy across the world 140 people is just so much worse and thusly we should be "thankful" in any way that the other one that killed 100 people happened.
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On December 15 2012 14:00 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:55 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 13:52 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 13:50 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 13:40 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 12:05 ragz_gt wrote:On December 15 2012 10:38 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 10:34 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:
[quote]
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing. Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns. Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15. Pretty sure you never killed anything then. Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't. Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake. How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"? Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns. You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent. Bullshit, Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter? You are weighing lives against lives. Stop trying to act like you'd even dare utter to the victims of a tragedy that killed 100 people that the other tragedy across the world 140 people is just so much worse and thusly we should be "thankful" in any way that the other one that killed 100 people happened.
Lord, settle down, please.... He's trying to look at the effectiveness of weapons used in an objective matter. He's not saying, "Well, this rampage is okay because no one actually died."
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On December 15 2012 11:13 101toss wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 11:10 coasts wrote:
Wait, no guns? And no one died? This is sorta of why there should be more gun control in the States. People who do these kinds of things aren't necessarily going to plan them out and think "with a gun I can kill more people," they will just grab what is available and go for it, if a gun is much more difficult to acquire. Obviously, though, these events will still take place, but without guns it is a lot harder to kill a lot of people, as demonstrated by the contrast between this case and the shooting in the Conneticut school.
However, this is also just circumstantial evidence, but I think it would be hard for anybody to argue that someone, on average, could cause just as much harm with a knife as with a gun in these situations. It's still horrifying, just imagine seeing a bunch of 5 year olds getting slashed by a maniac
Yeah, obviously it's still horrifying. I wasn't saying that knife rampages aren't bad or anything.
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On December 15 2012 14:00 sCCrooked wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 13:55 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 13:52 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 13:50 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 13:40 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 12:05 ragz_gt wrote:On December 15 2012 10:38 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 10:34 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:
[quote]
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing. Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns. Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15. Pretty sure you never killed anything then. Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't. Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake. How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"? Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns. You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent. Bullshit, Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter? You are weighing lives against lives. Stop trying to act like you'd even dare utter to the victims of a tragedy that killed 100 people that the other tragedy across the world 140 people is just so much worse and thusly we should be "thankful" in any way that the other one that killed 100 people happened.
I think you misunderstand me. I am NOT saying that less death=more acceptable, but that ALL deaths are unacceptable.
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On December 15 2012 11:06 julianto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 10:53 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 10:42 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 10:30 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Hmmm... that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead. My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability. Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic. It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting. Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead.
Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
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On December 15 2012 14:21 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:00 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 13:55 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 13:52 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 13:50 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 13:40 sCCrooked wrote:On December 15 2012 12:05 ragz_gt wrote:On December 15 2012 10:38 FeyverN wrote:On December 15 2012 10:34 fuzzylogic44 wrote:On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote:
[quote]
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing. Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns. Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15. Pretty sure you never killed anything then. Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't. Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake. How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"? Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns. You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent. Bullshit, Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter? You are weighing lives against lives. Stop trying to act like you'd even dare utter to the victims of a tragedy that killed 100 people that the other tragedy across the world 140 people is just so much worse and thusly we should be "thankful" in any way that the other one that killed 100 people happened. I think you misunderstand me. I am NOT saying that less death=more acceptable, but that ALL deaths are unacceptable.
Well at least we agree on that lol
cLAN.Anax wrote:Lord, settle down, please.... He's trying to look at the effectiveness of weapons used in an objective matter
This is where we differ though. First off no need to get all holier-than-thou as if you're the calm adult and I'm some emotionally-ramped up kid. The point is that looking at violence objectively is extremely cold and ineffective. Should be looking at the person not the tool used. Both people belong in the same sort of category. I don't care if you're crazy enough to massacre with a knife or a gun, you're still a crazy and that should be the issue in my opinion.
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On December 15 2012 14:22 delarien123 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 11:06 julianto wrote:On December 15 2012 10:53 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 10:42 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 10:30 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Hmmm... that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead. My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability. Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic. It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting. Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead. Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
The best weapon against the rise of dictatorship is civil awareness, education, critical thinking, freedom of the press and good investigative journalists. Good luck fighting the govenment's full auto weapons and armored vehicles with total aerial dominance with pistols, hunting rifles and shotguns.
Now, a zombie apocalypse though...
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On December 15 2012 14:32 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:22 delarien123 wrote:On December 15 2012 11:06 julianto wrote:On December 15 2012 10:53 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 10:42 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 10:30 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Hmmm... that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead. My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability. Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic. It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting. Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead. Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat. The best weapon against the rise of dictatorship is civil awareness, education, critical thinking, freedom of the press and good investigative journalists. Good luck fighting the govenment's full auto weapons and armored vehicles with total aerial dominance with pistols, hunting rifles and shotguns. Now, a zombie apocalypse though...
You do realize the military would be highly unlikely to fight against their own countrymen? Hell the military might make dam sure that a dictatorship doesn't happen. However, if it comes down to that, I would rather try to free myself from tyranny than live a life of slavery. Are you so blind to see that?
Edit: words and journalism ect ect. are nice and all but they really hold no power if a dictatorship were to happen. The threat of assassination is just as powerful as the press. Which would not be there if there were banning of guns.
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On December 15 2012 14:52 delarien123 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:32 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 14:22 delarien123 wrote:On December 15 2012 11:06 julianto wrote:On December 15 2012 10:53 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 10:42 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 10:30 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Hmmm... that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead. My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability. Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic. It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting. Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead. Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat. The best weapon against the rise of dictatorship is civil awareness, education, critical thinking, freedom of the press and good investigative journalists. Good luck fighting the govenment's full auto weapons and armored vehicles with total aerial dominance with pistols, hunting rifles and shotguns. Now, a zombie apocalypse though... You do realize the military would be highly unlikely to fight against their own countrymen? Hell the military might make dam sure that a dictatorship doesn't happen. However, if it comes down to that, I would rather try to free myself from tyranny than live a life of slavery. Are you so blind to see that? Edit: words and journalism ect ect. are nice and all but they really hold no power if a dictatorship were to happen. The threat of assassination is just as powerful as the press. Which would not be there if there were banning of guns.
I didn't you shouldn't fight for your freedom, but there are certainly more sophisticated and more effective ways to do it than to assassinate people you don't like. I'd say that Freedom of information, thought and expression is far more essential than the freedom of owning lethal weapons in a democracy.
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On December 15 2012 14:22 delarien123 wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 11:06 julianto wrote:On December 15 2012 10:53 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 10:42 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 10:30 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Hmmm... that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead. My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability. Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic. It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting. Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead. Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
Sorry but, can you find me one instance where civilians possessing guns has ever stopped the government from becoming a dictatorship? Government oppression in the US already exists on minorities and has historically existed through its history despite the second amendment existing since its inception. In practicality almost every war-torn region or under developed region in the world has civilians wielding weapons and that's never stopped anything. Since when has the civilian reserved firearms yielded by an untrained populace ever going to pose actual threats to a military force unless the country already spiraled into a civil war? In which case an oppressive government or a split of representations of the populace has already happened?
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On December 15 2012 15:09 RavenLoud wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:52 delarien123 wrote:On December 15 2012 14:32 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 14:22 delarien123 wrote:On December 15 2012 11:06 julianto wrote:On December 15 2012 10:53 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 10:42 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 10:30 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Hmmm... that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead. My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability. Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic. It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting. Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead. Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat. The best weapon against the rise of dictatorship is civil awareness, education, critical thinking, freedom of the press and good investigative journalists. Good luck fighting the govenment's full auto weapons and armored vehicles with total aerial dominance with pistols, hunting rifles and shotguns. Now, a zombie apocalypse though... You do realize the military would be highly unlikely to fight against their own countrymen? Hell the military might make dam sure that a dictatorship doesn't happen. However, if it comes down to that, I would rather try to free myself from tyranny than live a life of slavery. Are you so blind to see that? Edit: words and journalism ect ect. are nice and all but they really hold no power if a dictatorship were to happen. The threat of assassination is just as powerful as the press. Which would not be there if there were banning of guns. I didn't you shouldn't fight for your freedom, but there are certainly more sophisticated and more effective ways to do it than to assassinate people you don't like. I'd say that Freedom of information, thought and expression is far more essential than the freedom of owning lethal weapons in a democracy.
Your missing the point. I agree that those things are important. They might be more important than having guns. However, if we start taking away one freedom after another sooner or later we will have no freedom at all. We should not limit guns to people, but we should do a background check on people. Monsters like the person in this article should not have access to a gun. A family man should have every right to have one though. This is what I am trying to say and get across.
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On December 15 2012 15:15 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:22 delarien123 wrote:On December 15 2012 11:06 julianto wrote:On December 15 2012 10:53 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 10:42 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 10:30 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Hmmm... that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead. My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability. Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic. It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting. Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead. Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat. Sorry but, can you find me one instance where civilians possessing guns has ever stopped the government from becoming a dictatorship? Government oppression in the US already exists on minorities and has historically existed through its history despite the second amendment existing since its inception. In practicality almost every war-torn region or under developed region in the world has civilians wielding weapons and that's never stopped anything. Since when has the civilian reserved firearms yielded by an untrained populace ever going to pose actual threats to a military force unless the country already spiraled into a civil war?
Is there an example of where citizens had guns and tried to stop the government from becoming a dictatorship? If there is you will have to link me until than you have absolutely no information or credibility. Now what is your definition of oppressed? Is it having to pay taxes? Is it having the freedom of speech taken away? Is it having to work for free? Is it the inability to do what you want? Is it the taking away of education?
You do understand that i use the term oppression in a way that means the taking away of freedoms that EVERY human should have. A human should not be killed just because he might say something wrong.
edit: taxes are necessary to have schools, roads, houses, bridges , ect.ect.ect. they are a bit higher than they should be but its not like they are not necessary to a country as big as ours.
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On December 15 2012 15:15 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On December 15 2012 14:22 delarien123 wrote:On December 15 2012 11:06 julianto wrote:On December 15 2012 10:53 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 10:42 RavenLoud wrote:On December 15 2012 10:30 101toss wrote:On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote:I guess that's the difference between guns and knives. Hmmm... that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead. My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability. Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic. It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting. Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead. Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat. Sorry but, can you find me one instance where civilians possessing guns has ever stopped the government from becoming a dictatorship? Government oppression in the US already exists on minorities and has historically existed through its history despite the second amendment existing since its inception. In practicality almost every war-torn region or under developed region in the world has civilians wielding weapons and that's never stopped anything. Since when has the civilian reserved firearms yielded by an untrained populace ever going to pose actual threats to a military force unless the country already spiraled into a civil war? In which case an oppressive government or a split of representations of the populace has already happened?
Not sure if this counts but Libya (Syria is also a mess as well)
Not that any of this contextual, by any means
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EPT
