BEIJING -- A man with a knife slashed 22 children and one adult outside an elementary school in Henan province Friday morning, China's worst such incident in more than a year. The attack was reminiscent of a spate of knife attacks on schoolchildren that took place across China in 2010. In most cases, the attackers were unemployed middle-aged men, leading to speculation that the assaults stemmed from economic and social discontent.
Friday's attack occurred at about 7:40 a.m. as children were arriving outside the gate of Chenpeng Village’s Wanquan Elementary School. The suspect, Min Yingjun, 36, allegedly slashed an elderly woman as well as the children. Local propaganda officials said later that Min had a psychological illness.
Pictures uploaded to the Internet by bystanders show family members carrying young children with bandages on their heads. The local reports state that four seriously wounded children were transferred to other hospitals for intensive care.
The scene of the attack lies within the limits of Xinyang City, a mountainous and poor municipality 600 miles south of Beijing. The region is renowned for maojian, a bitter and aromatic green tea grown in the mountains. Xinyang is also known as one of the areas hardest hit by the famine that accompanied Communist Party agricultural policies in the 1950s and 1960s. More recent government policy has encouraged the adult population in rural Henan to migrate to cities to look for employment.
In another incident, a 25-year-old man was arrested Thursday night in Beijing after a series of incidents in which young women were slashed on the subway with a box cutter. The New China News Agency said the young man had recently been jilted by a girlfriend and wanted "revenge on society."
In 2010, nearly 20 children were killed and 50 wounded in a string of copycat incidents around central China. China has strict gun control laws, so knives are the weapon of choice in violent crimes.
I wanted to post this, not just because it's tragic news, but also to show people that America isn't the only country which has these sort of issues. With the recent Connecticut shooting thread, it's sad to say that there was another mass murder* in China.
How fucked up is our world that we can say this isn't even the worst elementary school attack today?
You guys think this could be the possibility of people thinking the world will end, so they just go out and kill people? Seems like a long shot but I think it's possible.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Do you think the death toll would be 0 if he used guns instead though?
On December 15 2012 09:51 Praetorial wrote: China has been having a rather large number of copycat killers over the past few years. It's possible he was motivated by today's killing.
But, possible. It's far more likely he was just a deranged and insane man.
Tragic.
The Chinese incident happened before the Connecticut one.
Are there any statistics about assaults in schools? It seems that countries leading are USA and some asian countries, where I assume it's due too big pressure on an individual.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Do you think the death toll would be 0 if he used guns instead though?
Yeah as if that pertains to the USA. You can make guns illegal in the USA and people will still illegally obtain them. Granted it will be harder, but if someone persists then they could pretty much get whatever they want.
I dunno, maybe the intent never was to kill, but to release anger, inflict pain; who knows.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Still, if you try a knife on 22 different people, children even, surely you would be able to kill at least some of them if you tried? It seems to me that the attacks were never meant to kill, for whatever that is worth.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Do you think the death toll would be 0 if he used guns instead though?
These years I've heard about many such incidents: china, a man, a knife, and children. Is it fashion or something?
[edit] or I could read the source before posting
In 2010, nearly 20 children were killed and 50 wounded in a string of copycat incidents around central China. China has strict gun control laws, so knives are the weapon of choice in violent crimes.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Do you think the death toll would be 0 if he used guns instead though?
Please god bring the gun control debate to the gun control debate thread. We don't need yet another thread lost to endless gun control flamewars that no one ever wins.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Do you think the death toll would be 0 if he used guns instead though?
Seriously though this is disgusting. I can't believe people do such awful shit. I understand how painful life can be, but I would never do something so wicked. I had a rough upbringing, and I don't understand these things at all. It's so ridiculous and awful. I hope the children are going to be ok.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Hmmm...
that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years
Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead.
My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability.
Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic.
This nationalistic bullshit needs to stop now. humans are humans, and unfortunately there are monsters amung us IN EVERY COUNTRY.
this isnt about china vs usa, this isnt about gun control vs knives, this is about respecting humanity and putting that back into the center of the ring.
On December 15 2012 10:54 Destro wrote: This nationalistic bullshit needs to stop now. humans are humans, and unfortunately there are monsters amung us IN EVERY COUNTRY.
this isnt about china vs usa, this isnt about gun control vs knives, this is about respecting humanity and putting that back into the center of the ring.
Unfortunately, in instances like these, people like to point fingers at something
On December 15 2012 10:54 Destro wrote: This nationalistic bullshit needs to stop now. humans are humans, and unfortunately there are monsters amung us IN EVERY COUNTRY.
this isnt about china vs usa, this isnt about gun control vs knives, this is about respecting humanity and putting that back into the center of the ring.
I'd argue that it's about exposing the systematic errors which make "humanity" commit acts such as these. You'd have to be an idiot to summarily chalk it up to "the individuals" (rather than say, faulty psychological care and/or faulty society in general - pressures, economics, etc).
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Hmmm...
that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years
Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead.
My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability.
Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic.
It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting.
Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead.
On December 15 2012 10:54 Destro wrote: This nationalistic bullshit needs to stop now. humans are humans, and unfortunately there are monsters amung us IN EVERY COUNTRY.
this isnt about china vs usa, this isnt about gun control vs knives, this is about respecting humanity and putting that back into the center of the ring.
Unfortunately, in instances like these, people like to point fingers at something
point fingers at each other rather then themselves. we all have the blood on our hands.. when we allow our society to promote things above humanity.. people start to lose it... too many people out there doing bad things to each other... its because they have been de-humanized...
goes to show you what happens when we all fail as a society to help those with mental illness.
Wait, no guns? And no one died? This is sorta of why there should be more gun control in the States. People who do these kinds of things aren't necessarily going to plan them out and think "with a gun I can kill more people," they will just grab what is available and go for it, if a gun is much more difficult to acquire. Obviously, though, these events will still take place, but without guns it is a lot harder to kill a lot of people, as demonstrated by the contrast between this case and the shooting in the Conneticut school.
However, this is also just circumstantial evidence, but I think it would be hard for anybody to argue that someone, on average, could cause just as much harm with a knife as with a gun in these situations.
User was warned for this post
Edit: why did this get a warning? I mean compared to some of the other posts in this thread which didn't. Also, I think this post was pretty reasonable. I wasn't trying to piss anyone off or load blame on the U.S. for its gun laws. This thread just seemed like a good place to make a comparison.
On December 15 2012 11:10 coasts wrote: Wait, no guns? And no one died? This is sorta of why there should be more gun control in the States. People who do these kinds of things aren't necessarily going to plan them out and think "with a gun I can kill more people," they will just grab what is available and go for it, if a gun is much more difficult to acquire. Obviously, though, these events will still take place, but without guns it is a lot harder to kill a lot of people, as demonstrated by the contrast between this case and the shooting in the Conneticut school.
However, this is also just circumstantial evidence, but I think it would be hard for anybody to argue that someone, on average, could cause just as much harm with a knife as with a gun in these situations.
It's still horrifying, just imagine seeing a bunch of 5 year olds getting slashed by a maniac
People should be encouraged to commit suicide. In all these massacres these guys ultimately want to do. If we just made it more noble to commit suicide it would solve a lot of these problems. Less dead children, more dead mentally disturbed is a grim calculus but ultimately I am okay with it.
Hmm... according to some other sources, he was subdued by security guards. Imagine how difficult that would have been if he had an automatic rifle instead of a knife.
On December 15 2012 11:10 coasts wrote: Wait, no guns? And no one died? This is sorta of why there should be more gun control in the States. People who do these kinds of things aren't necessarily going to plan them out and think "with a gun I can kill more people," they will just grab what is available and go for it, if a gun is much more difficult to acquire. Obviously, though, these events will still take place, but without guns it is a lot harder to kill a lot of people, as demonstrated by the contrast between this case and the shooting in the Conneticut school.
However, this is also just circumstantial evidence, but I think it would be hard for anybody to argue that someone, on average, could cause just as much harm with a knife as with a gun in these situations.
It's still horrifying, just imagine seeing a bunch of 5 year olds getting slashed by a maniac
That's not an argument against gun control. I don't know why you keep stating that they're both horrible crimes when it's pretty freaking obvious that they are.
I don't think this thread was made with the intention to promote conversation or to provide news commentary, or good intentions in general. The OP explicitly states that it's purpose is just to shift the ad hominem straw man nationalist attacks on the USA by directing the burden over to other countries by association (look they have violent horrible criminals too!) and prompting further ad hominem straw man attacks on China, forgetting that in both regions the general populace overwhelmingly condemns actions like this (which is bloody freaking obvious). It should be obvious that any people would want to disassociate themselves from the actions of individuals sharing our ethnicity / culture / country who commit atrocious actions, unless there is a logical conclusion that can be drawn between the motivation of the individual that's inherent with the ethnicity / culture / country.
That being said, the event did invoke a great deal of grief and anger in China, and one of the first reactions was why the police didn't arrive on the scene fast enough, or why the perpetrator wasn't apprehended fast enough by the guards.
This story is equally as important to discuss as the Connecticut one. Both are tragedies that deserve quiet reflection and serious dialogue. This should not be downplayed just because no one was killed (although that is, of course, a very fortunate difference between this and the Connecticut case).
As I said in the other thread, I will pray that the families can recover from this, and that this never happens again.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
Your telling me if some full grown man ran into an elementary school with a machete he couldn't kill a shit load of people?
I'm still in awe that there was no fatalities in this incident.
Can we maybe put the fact that no one died near the top or in the title? I see that a man slashed 22 children and I immediately assumed the worst, spent a few minutes assuming most of them died. Can't tell you how relieved I was at that last line.
In 2010, nearly 20 children were killed and 50 wounded in a string of copycat incidents around central China. China has strict gun control laws, so knives are the weapon of choice in violent crimes.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
Sorry but I'm pretty sure you have never killed anything or at the very least you're not very well trained in weapons or the martial arts.
A large blade like a machete when used on kids like this could easily kill them just from causing blood loss from a stab that while to a full grown person might not have done quite so much (still does a lot), a chilld would probably be stabbed all the way through and would bleed out significantly faster.
This is not me trying to play devil's advocate or anything but this knowledge is coming from my decades-long expertise in weapons and martial arts. Of course considering the guy is probably not trained like myself, this would also lower the chances he knows where to cut or something. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
Sorry but I'm pretty sure you have never killed anything or at the very least you're not very well trained in weapons or the martial arts.
A large blade like a machete when used on kids like this could easily kill them just from causing blood loss from a stab that while to a full grown person might not have done quite so much (still does a lot), a chilld would probably be stabbed all the way through and would bleed out significantly faster.
This is not me trying to play devil's advocate or anything but this knowledge is coming from my decades-long expertise in weapons and martial arts. Of course considering the guy is probably not trained like myself, this would also lower the chances he knows where to cut or something. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
This is really gross.. I understand the argument and why you guys are having it.. but do you really need to detail how hard or easy it would be to hack up children while people (such as myself) are trying to hold back tears reading about these horrible acts happening..
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
Sorry but I'm pretty sure you have never killed anything or at the very least you're not very well trained in weapons or the martial arts.
A large blade like a machete when used on kids like this could easily kill them just from causing blood loss from a stab that while to a full grown person might not have done quite so much (still does a lot), a chilld would probably be stabbed all the way through and would bleed out significantly faster.
This is not me trying to play devil's advocate or anything but this knowledge is coming from my decades-long expertise in weapons and martial arts. Of course considering the guy is probably not trained like myself, this would also lower the chances he knows where to cut or something. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
This is really gross.. I understand the argument and why you guys are having it.. but do you really need to detail how hard or easy it would be to hack up children while people (such as myself) are trying to hold back tears reading about these horrible acts happening..
Its a simple discussion. If an expansive and descriptive vocabulary upsets you, then don't read these threads right now.
Most people are still all caught up in their emotions like they were there or something. We don't even know all the details yet from this incident or the one in CT. So far all this is doing is following the same pattern of regular violence and people trying to get all caught up in "PLZ TAKE OUR FREEDOMS FOR SAFETY!".
Here in the US, the smart people have long-since gotten over the cycle. We see it happen literally every time something like this occurs. There's also almost always stuff behind the scenes nobody is willing to acknowledge or investigate. Everything is just blindly accepted at a whim from these media sources.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"?
Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
Sorry but I'm pretty sure you have never killed anything or at the very least you're not very well trained in weapons or the martial arts.
A large blade like a machete when used on kids like this could easily kill them just from causing blood loss from a stab that while to a full grown person might not have done quite so much (still does a lot), a chilld would probably be stabbed all the way through and would bleed out significantly faster.
This is not me trying to play devil's advocate or anything but this knowledge is coming from my decades-long expertise in weapons and martial arts. Of course considering the guy is probably not trained like myself, this would also lower the chances he knows where to cut or something. It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
This is really gross.. I understand the argument and why you guys are having it.. but do you really need to detail how hard or easy it would be to hack up children while people (such as myself) are trying to hold back tears reading about these horrible acts happening..
Its a simple discussion. If an expansive and descriptive vocabulary upsets you, then don't read these threads right now.
Most people are still all caught up in their emotions like they were there or something. We don't even know all the details yet from this incident or the one in CT. So far all this is doing is following the same pattern of regular violence and people trying to get all caught up in "PLZ TAKE OUR FREEDOMS FOR SAFETY!".
Here in the US, the smart people have long-since gotten over the cycle. We see it happen literally every time something like this occurs. There's also almost always stuff behind the scenes nobody is willing to acknowledge or investigate. Everything is just blindly accepted at a whim from these media sources.
Yeah, people is the US are sure smart to defend the right to own weapons while allowing the Patriot Act.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"?
Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns.
You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"?
Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns.
You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent.
Bullshit, Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter?
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"?
Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns.
You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent.
Bullshit, Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter?
I think he's saying that, ideally, these stupid rampages wouldn't happen and we should strive to prevent and deter this tragedies, no matter the weapon used. I understand where you're coming from in that knives are less potentially lethal than firearms; this story of what happened in China is a good example to substantiate that. But I think sCCrooked, and potentially others, would interpret your statement as something like "It's not that big a deal since it was a knife instead of a gun."
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"?
Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns.
You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent.
Bullshit, Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter?
You are weighing lives against lives. Stop trying to act like you'd even dare utter to the victims of a tragedy that killed 100 people that the other tragedy across the world 140 people is just so much worse and thusly we should be "thankful" in any way that the other one that killed 100 people happened.
On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote: [quote]
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"?
Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns.
You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent.
Bullshit, Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter?
You are weighing lives against lives. Stop trying to act like you'd even dare utter to the victims of a tragedy that killed 100 people that the other tragedy across the world 140 people is just so much worse and thusly we should be "thankful" in any way that the other one that killed 100 people happened.
Lord, settle down, please.... He's trying to look at the effectiveness of weapons used in an objective matter. He's not saying, "Well, this rampage is okay because no one actually died."
On December 15 2012 11:10 coasts wrote: Wait, no guns? And no one died? This is sorta of why there should be more gun control in the States. People who do these kinds of things aren't necessarily going to plan them out and think "with a gun I can kill more people," they will just grab what is available and go for it, if a gun is much more difficult to acquire. Obviously, though, these events will still take place, but without guns it is a lot harder to kill a lot of people, as demonstrated by the contrast between this case and the shooting in the Conneticut school.
However, this is also just circumstantial evidence, but I think it would be hard for anybody to argue that someone, on average, could cause just as much harm with a knife as with a gun in these situations.
It's still horrifying, just imagine seeing a bunch of 5 year olds getting slashed by a maniac
Yeah, obviously it's still horrifying. I wasn't saying that knife rampages aren't bad or anything.
On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote: [quote]
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"?
Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns.
You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent.
Bullshit, Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter?
You are weighing lives against lives. Stop trying to act like you'd even dare utter to the victims of a tragedy that killed 100 people that the other tragedy across the world 140 people is just so much worse and thusly we should be "thankful" in any way that the other one that killed 100 people happened.
I think you misunderstand me. I am NOT saying that less death=more acceptable, but that ALL deaths are unacceptable.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Hmmm...
that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years
Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead.
My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability.
Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic.
It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting.
Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead.
Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
On December 15 2012 09:50 FeyverN wrote: [quote] Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"?
Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns.
You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent.
Bullshit, Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter?
You are weighing lives against lives. Stop trying to act like you'd even dare utter to the victims of a tragedy that killed 100 people that the other tragedy across the world 140 people is just so much worse and thusly we should be "thankful" in any way that the other one that killed 100 people happened.
I think you misunderstand me. I am NOT saying that less death=more acceptable, but that ALL deaths are unacceptable.
Well at least we agree on that lol
cLAN.Anax wrote:Lord, settle down, please.... He's trying to look at the effectiveness of weapons used in an objective matter
This is where we differ though. First off no need to get all holier-than-thou as if you're the calm adult and I'm some emotionally-ramped up kid. The point is that looking at violence objectively is extremely cold and ineffective. Should be looking at the person not the tool used. Both people belong in the same sort of category. I don't care if you're crazy enough to massacre with a knife or a gun, you're still a crazy and that should be the issue in my opinion.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Hmmm...
that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years
Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead.
My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability.
Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic.
It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting.
Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead.
Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
The best weapon against the rise of dictatorship is civil awareness, education, critical thinking, freedom of the press and good investigative journalists. Good luck fighting the govenment's full auto weapons and armored vehicles with total aerial dominance with pistols, hunting rifles and shotguns.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Hmmm...
that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years
Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead.
My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability.
Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic.
It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting.
Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead.
Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
The best weapon against the rise of dictatorship is civil awareness, education, critical thinking, freedom of the press and good investigative journalists. Good luck fighting the govenment's full auto weapons and armored vehicles with total aerial dominance with pistols, hunting rifles and shotguns.
Now, a zombie apocalypse though...
You do realize the military would be highly unlikely to fight against their own countrymen? Hell the military might make dam sure that a dictatorship doesn't happen. However, if it comes down to that, I would rather try to free myself from tyranny than live a life of slavery. Are you so blind to see that?
Edit: words and journalism ect ect. are nice and all but they really hold no power if a dictatorship were to happen. The threat of assassination is just as powerful as the press. Which would not be there if there were banning of guns.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Hmmm...
that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years
Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead.
My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability.
Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic.
It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting.
Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead.
Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
The best weapon against the rise of dictatorship is civil awareness, education, critical thinking, freedom of the press and good investigative journalists. Good luck fighting the govenment's full auto weapons and armored vehicles with total aerial dominance with pistols, hunting rifles and shotguns.
Now, a zombie apocalypse though...
You do realize the military would be highly unlikely to fight against their own countrymen? Hell the military might make dam sure that a dictatorship doesn't happen. However, if it comes down to that, I would rather try to free myself from tyranny than live a life of slavery. Are you so blind to see that?
Edit: words and journalism ect ect. are nice and all but they really hold no power if a dictatorship were to happen. The threat of assassination is just as powerful as the press. Which would not be there if there were banning of guns.
I didn't you shouldn't fight for your freedom, but there are certainly more sophisticated and more effective ways to do it than to assassinate people you don't like. I'd say that Freedom of information, thought and expression is far more essential than the freedom of owning lethal weapons in a democracy.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Hmmm...
that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years
Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead.
My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability.
Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic.
It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting.
Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead.
Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
Sorry but, can you find me one instance where civilians possessing guns has ever stopped the government from becoming a dictatorship? Government oppression in the US already exists on minorities and has historically existed through its history despite the second amendment existing since its inception. In practicality almost every war-torn region or under developed region in the world has civilians wielding weapons and that's never stopped anything. Since when has the civilian reserved firearms yielded by an untrained populace ever going to pose actual threats to a military force unless the country already spiraled into a civil war? In which case an oppressive government or a split of representations of the populace has already happened?
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Hmmm...
that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years
Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead.
My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability.
Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic.
It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting.
Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead.
Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
The best weapon against the rise of dictatorship is civil awareness, education, critical thinking, freedom of the press and good investigative journalists. Good luck fighting the govenment's full auto weapons and armored vehicles with total aerial dominance with pistols, hunting rifles and shotguns.
Now, a zombie apocalypse though...
You do realize the military would be highly unlikely to fight against their own countrymen? Hell the military might make dam sure that a dictatorship doesn't happen. However, if it comes down to that, I would rather try to free myself from tyranny than live a life of slavery. Are you so blind to see that?
Edit: words and journalism ect ect. are nice and all but they really hold no power if a dictatorship were to happen. The threat of assassination is just as powerful as the press. Which would not be there if there were banning of guns.
I didn't you shouldn't fight for your freedom, but there are certainly more sophisticated and more effective ways to do it than to assassinate people you don't like. I'd say that Freedom of information, thought and expression is far more essential than the freedom of owning lethal weapons in a democracy.
Your missing the point. I agree that those things are important. They might be more important than having guns. However, if we start taking away one freedom after another sooner or later we will have no freedom at all. We should not limit guns to people, but we should do a background check on people. Monsters like the person in this article should not have access to a gun. A family man should have every right to have one though. This is what I am trying to say and get across.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Hmmm...
that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years
Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead.
My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability.
Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic.
It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting.
Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead.
Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
Sorry but, can you find me one instance where civilians possessing guns has ever stopped the government from becoming a dictatorship? Government oppression in the US already exists on minorities and has historically existed through its history despite the second amendment existing since its inception. In practicality almost every war-torn region or under developed region in the world has civilians wielding weapons and that's never stopped anything. Since when has the civilian reserved firearms yielded by an untrained populace ever going to pose actual threats to a military force unless the country already spiraled into a civil war?
Is there an example of where citizens had guns and tried to stop the government from becoming a dictatorship? If there is you will have to link me until than you have absolutely no information or credibility. Now what is your definition of oppressed? Is it having to pay taxes? Is it having the freedom of speech taken away? Is it having to work for free? Is it the inability to do what you want? Is it the taking away of education?
You do understand that i use the term oppression in a way that means the taking away of freedoms that EVERY human should have. A human should not be killed just because he might say something wrong.
edit: taxes are necessary to have schools, roads, houses, bridges , ect.ect.ect. they are a bit higher than they should be but its not like they are not necessary to a country as big as ours.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Hmmm...
that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years
Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead.
My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability.
Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic.
It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting.
Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead.
Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
Sorry but, can you find me one instance where civilians possessing guns has ever stopped the government from becoming a dictatorship? Government oppression in the US already exists on minorities and has historically existed through its history despite the second amendment existing since its inception. In practicality almost every war-torn region or under developed region in the world has civilians wielding weapons and that's never stopped anything. Since when has the civilian reserved firearms yielded by an untrained populace ever going to pose actual threats to a military force unless the country already spiraled into a civil war? In which case an oppressive government or a split of representations of the populace has already happened?
Not sure if this counts but Libya (Syria is also a mess as well)
Yeah I was banned from a justin.tv channel for talking about it... seriously some people just don't care, it's so sad. A guy was making fun of it and I told him that he's an asshole, and to keep stuff like that to himself. Channel mod tells me to shut up and bans me...
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Hmmm...
that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years
Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead.
My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability.
Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic.
It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting.
Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead.
Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
Sorry but, can you find me one instance where civilians possessing guns has ever stopped the government from becoming a dictatorship? Government oppression in the US already exists on minorities and has historically existed through its history despite the second amendment existing since its inception. In practicality almost every war-torn region or under developed region in the world has civilians wielding weapons and that's never stopped anything. Since when has the civilian reserved firearms yielded by an untrained populace ever going to pose actual threats to a military force unless the country already spiraled into a civil war? In which case an oppressive government or a split of representations of the populace has already happened?
Not sure if this counts but Libya (Syria is also a mess as well)
Not that any of this contextual, by any means
Sorry but, can you find me one instance where civilians possessing guns has ever stopped the government from becoming a dictatorship?
The whole purpose is as a preventive measure, if there's a war going on or if a civil war is going on it's entirely different in terms of people arming themselves / recieving international aid / foreign military aid. Unless your argument is that the same gun rights should exist for people engaged in military combat as there exists for peacetime civilians.
Since when has the civilian reserved firearms yielded by an untrained populace ever going to pose actual threats to a military force unless the country already spiraled into a civil war? In which case an oppressive government or a split of representations of the populace has already happened?
In both of these examples the dictatorship has been in place for decades already.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Excuse me I just did some googling and it seems the fact that knife wounds are less frequently fatal than gunshot wounds is debated (it seems much of the evidence and arguments against come from American sources, interestingly). Anyway I personally researched this a while back and found it to be pretty conclusive, especially for wounds in areas like the stomach. But I previously stated it was an established fact and it seems actually like it's in dispute.
(Don't want to post loads of sources but you come across things like this a lot
"The Journal of Trauma (36:4 pp516-524) looked at all injury admissions to a Seattle hospital over a six year period. The mortality rate for gunshot wounds was 22% while that for stab wounds was 4%. Even among patients that survived, gunshot wounds were more serious -- the mean cost of treatment for these patients was more than twice that for stab wounds."
Argument aside, this is horrific news and very saddening. Same as the Connecticut shooting. Targeting children just feels so 'unfair'. They haven't even had half a chance at life.
On December 15 2012 09:48 RavenLoud wrote: [quote]
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Not really, a knife can kill people as well. Chances are, this Chinese man was running around stabbing people very fast and didn't have enough time to stab people 3 or more times because everyone would have evacuated by the third stabbing.
Pens can kill people too, I guess they are equal to guns.
Yes, but as someone else said in this thread there is a difference between what you're saying and intent. I guarantee if this guy was actually trying, all 22 of these people would be dead. Then again, it would take more time to kill people so it would probably be around 15.
Pretty sure you never killed anything then.
Even kill a chicken with a machete is frigging HARD work, there is no way some crazy person would be able to kill 22 people, or 5, if you give him all day.
It still isn't a viable or decent argument to say "imagine if it were a gun" because it wasn't.
Just in general to anyone saying similar things, grow up. You're talking about children being harmed on a large scale. Its not acceptable no matter if anyone died or not. There's no lesser of 2 evils when peoples' lives are at stake.
How is saying "using knifes = less deaths" in any way the same as "children being harmed on a large scale is acceptable"?
Of course I agree that there's no lesser of the 2 evils in terms of their intent, nor does gun control tackle any of the real causes of the problem. However, if someone attacked the school in which your child attends, I think you'd be relatively more relieved if the attacker has knifes instead of guns.
You, sir are obviously not a parent. Anything that could have the potential to take lives, especially those of your child no matter if its a gun, knife, machette, katana, spear or whatever. The panic and instinctive reaction is the same. I repeat again, there's no lesser of 2 evils in a case like this. People were hurt on a massive scale. In my opinion, its not acceptable to weigh peoples' lives like that. Both situations demand a good look at society and how it handles its deranged or potentially violent.
Bullshit, Are you honestly saying that the amount of deaths doesn't matter?
You are weighing lives against lives. Stop trying to act like you'd even dare utter to the victims of a tragedy that killed 100 people that the other tragedy across the world 140 people is just so much worse and thusly we should be "thankful" in any way that the other one that killed 100 people happened.
Both sides of this argument are exemplified in Walter White's backfiring attempt to assuage the student's morale at his school after the plane crashed.
These attacks have been occurring a lot the past few years in China, a lot more frequent then the shootings in the States but but our population is over 7x larger and most of it attributes to psychiatric issues. There was a stabbing in a Shanghai day-care center last year.
On December 15 2012 09:49 kochanfe wrote: Holy fucking shit... glad to know there are fucked up people in other countries not only in the USA...
User was warned for this post
A man with a knife slashed 22 children and one adult outside an elementary school in Henan province Friday morning, China's worst such incident in more than a year
This was the worst attack in China for a year, and no one died. It has only been a few months since the last shootout in USA, and every time there is a shootout USA there are casualties. USA is the only developed country in which shootouts is a major concern.
the condition of left at home kids by migrant workers is a genuine bad situation for china. these cities that enjoy their cheap labor should stop being such rent seeking assholes and open up their schools. but nooo.
I guess that's the difference between guns and knives.
Hmmm...
that certainly explains all the kids who got knifed to death in China in the past few years
Yeah, imagine if these murderers used guns instead.
My point is that regardless of the measures in place, people will find ways to commit acts of mass violence. You could argue that fewer lives are at stake, but the potential for violence will always be there with the presence of mental instability.
Right now it sounds like the general mentality is "5 kids got stabbed, but hey, it's better than 10 kids getting shot." The bottom line is, regardless of weapon, the event is still tragic and traumatic.
It is much easier to mass murder with a gun than with a knife. One, it takes less time to squeeze the trigger and one-shot people than to stab people. Help could arrive and save more lives in the case of the stabbing than in the case of the shooting.
Two, shooting is more impersonal, which makes it much easier to do than stabbing. One would be more averted to stabbing than shooting because you'd have to get up close to the victim. If your only way to mass murder was stabbing, then you'd be less likely to go through with it. And you'd do less harm without a firearm if you go through with it. 10 kids dead IS more tragic than 5 kids dead.
Listen banning guns is the last thing we should do. Guns keep the government from becoming a dictatorship. If everyone has a gun in the United States do you really think the government would try and oppress us? It sucks that people get hurt more, but it is far better to live with the fear of dying by guns than to live my life being oppressed by the government. The very real threat that any government can become a dictatorship will always be there. Just because we live in the USA does not mean it is not a real threat.
Sorry but, can you find me one instance where civilians possessing guns has ever stopped the government from becoming a dictatorship? Government oppression in the US already exists on minorities and has historically existed through its history despite the second amendment existing since its inception. In practicality almost every war-torn region or under developed region in the world has civilians wielding weapons and that's never stopped anything. Since when has the civilian reserved firearms yielded by an untrained populace ever going to pose actual threats to a military force unless the country already spiraled into a civil war? In which case an oppressive government or a split of representations of the populace has already happened?
Look at the terrorists in Afghanistan/Iraq... They have next to 0 training and they have not been a push over to not only the most powerful military nation but the entire coalition... Or the IRA. Or Syria/Libya
Obviously an untrained population would be defeated by a military in an open war but any resistance group that would willingly engage in open combat with a major military nation would clearly be mentally deficient.
Trying to take every gun out of the hands of every Canadian/American is stupid because many people rely on them for safety. Most forestry workers in the far north need a weapon in case a bear comes to fuck them up. Lots of farmers need them to keep their livestock safe from wolves/w.e. If I was living in some sketchy ghetto in a large city in the states where breaking and entering happens all the time I would definitely have a weapon for self defence too.
People who are fucked in the head will kill however they can. If they can use a gun they will, knives, their hands, bombs, whatever. The problem is not guns the problem is the horrible mental care. Go to the downtown east side where all the drug users are in Vancouver something like 90% of them had no other option but to live there after all the mental health institutions closed....
EPT
