|
On November 23 2012 23:24 lahara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:21 mcc wrote:On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever. And that is a problem that warrants banning them why ? i neevr said it should be stopped. i personally dont see the use in them so i think people should stop doing these paardes especiall yif others get offended. celebrate your homosexuality in private. if they dont want to stop well then people wil just get offended and its just too bad. i never said anything about bannning the parades . l2r liquidlahara
I do not see a point of people celebrating religious occasions and I am often "offended" by them when they are belittling other people, therefore everyone should stop, just because I think so. Based on your reasoning no public actions should be happening, because everytime someone is offended and someone finds them useless.
|
On November 23 2012 23:24 lahara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:21 mcc wrote:On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever. And that is a problem that warrants banning them why ? i neevr said it should be stopped. i personally dont see the use in them so i think people should stop doing these paardes especiall yif others get offended. celebrate your homosexuality in private. if they dont want to stop well then people wil just get offended and its just too bad. i never said anything about bannning the parades . l2r liquidlahara
I think you popl should stop using th lttr "e". I don't think it is rally ncssary to us it, txts ar still radibl without thm, plus I and othrs might find th us of it offnsiv. Practic what you prach and stop using th lttr "e".! Or only us it in privat!
|
On November 23 2012 23:13 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:10 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 23:09 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:On November 23 2012 23:01 zalz wrote:
Don't sell your spineless position as anything other than the cowardice that it is. Sovereignty can go to hell when it treads upon the rights of the individual. So you agree with the wars in the middle east then? And if you disagree with the wars you are a coward, straight out of the George W Bush handbook that one - "You're either with us or you're with the terrorists! " was his exact quote.All those Arab countries gotta be more like 'Murrica! And yet these interventionist policies end up causing far more hardship to the people of those nations than doing nothing does.Pure madness. please stick to the topic of gay rights in uganda We are discussing whether it is morally right for one sovereign nation to tell another sovereign nation what it's laws should be.These are relevant examples (Removal of the Taliban in Afghanistan) - This is on topic.
Actually, we are not. We are discussing anti-homosexual laws in Uganda, and as an extension of that the question has been brought up whether people who are not from Uganda have a right to judge their laws, and maybe act against them. Noone was talking about nations telling each other what to do except you.
And since we live in nations that accept freedom of speech as a basic right, we have the right to comment on other nations laws, too. Also, as a private person, i don't see why it would be wrong to judge the laws of other nations based on my ethical opinions.
And that is pretty simple in this situation. In my opinion, if it does not hurt anyone else, it is ok. Thus, being gay is ok, since all involved parties are fine with it. Putting gay people into jail is as a result of this not ok, since that hurts people who did nothing wrong. There are morally ambivalent situations. This is not one of them, it is pretty much obvious to anyone that bases his ethical compass on this simple rule, which in my opinion is the best way to do it and pretty much universally accepted.
Edit: Also, i seem to recall we had this exact same thread about a year ago already.
|
On November 23 2012 23:31 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:24 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 23:21 mcc wrote:On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever. And that is a problem that warrants banning them why ? i neevr said it should be stopped. i personally dont see the use in them so i think people should stop doing these paardes especiall yif others get offended. celebrate your homosexuality in private. if they dont want to stop well then people wil just get offended and its just too bad. i never said anything about bannning the parades . l2r liquidlahara Homosexuals used to hide their sexuality. People like you kept drafting their names on lists and publishing them in the newspaper so they would get fired. Historic record shows that when homosexuals don't flaunt anything, they are still targetted.
lol people like me? way to go overboard :D. all i say is that since some people take offense hthey might wanna reconsider having parades celebrating their sexuality which people are either indifferent to or take offense at. i just dont see the point. i dont have a problem with homosexuals but i just dont see why they need gay paardes when i dont need a straight parade
|
On November 23 2012 23:36 DisneylandSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:24 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 23:21 mcc wrote:On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever. And that is a problem that warrants banning them why ? i neevr said it should be stopped. i personally dont see the use in them so i think people should stop doing these paardes especiall yif others get offended. celebrate your homosexuality in private. if they dont want to stop well then people wil just get offended and its just too bad. i never said anything about bannning the parades . l2r liquidlahara I think you popl should stop using th lttr "e". I don't think it is rally ncssary to us it, txts ar still radibl without thm, plus I and othrs might find th us of it offnsiv. Practic what you prach and stop using th lttr "e".! Or only us it in privat!
now thats just blatantly trolling. i was at leats trying to convey a point related to the discussion...
gg wp
liquidlahara
|
On November 23 2012 23:36 DisneylandSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:24 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 23:21 mcc wrote:On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever. And that is a problem that warrants banning them why ? i neevr said it should be stopped. i personally dont see the use in them so i think people should stop doing these paardes especiall yif others get offended. celebrate your homosexuality in private. if they dont want to stop well then people wil just get offended and its just too bad. i never said anything about bannning the parades . l2r liquidlahara I think you popl should stop using th lttr "e". I don't think it is rally ncssary to us it, txts ar still radibl without thm, plus I and othrs might find th us of it offnsiv. Practic what you prach and stop using th lttr "e".! Or only us it in privat!
-
On November 23 2012 23:40 lahara wrote:
lol people like me? way to go overboard :D. all i say is that since some people take offense hthey might wanna reconsider having parades celebrating their sexuality which people are either indifferent to or take offense at. i just dont see the point. i dont have a problem with homosexuals but i just dont see why they need gay paardes when i dont need a straight parade
Hypocrit! Why do you kp offnding m with th lttr that shall not b usd!
|
On November 23 2012 22:48 sharky246 wrote:
There are much much much much much more worse problems going on in uganda that makes this issue look like a cold flu. The country is in a state of poverty, as well as being riled with corruption. Then you got the education problems although that falls under poverty. And there is also the problem of child labour and trafficking.
This kinda makes me not even want to help them. They at least have to want to help themselves, if they are to expect help from "us". Not that I believe we are capable of helping them anyway. But that's another matter. If this occupies their time and money, then, well. I wont provide them with that money.
To them this seems like an issue. Like a big deal. And so I have to wonder what they really want/need help with. If this is what they work towards.
They have people starving, yet they would rather create and fill up their jails with homosexuals. Don't expect me to pick up the phone next time I see an African child starving on telly... Ahhh. Either they care about their own poverty or they don't. I surely won't care when they do not.
|
On November 23 2012 23:40 lahara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:31 zalz wrote:On November 23 2012 23:24 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 23:21 mcc wrote:On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever. And that is a problem that warrants banning them why ? i neevr said it should be stopped. i personally dont see the use in them so i think people should stop doing these paardes especiall yif others get offended. celebrate your homosexuality in private. if they dont want to stop well then people wil just get offended and its just too bad. i never said anything about bannning the parades . l2r liquidlahara Homosexuals used to hide their sexuality. People like you kept drafting their names on lists and publishing them in the newspaper so they would get fired. Historic record shows that when homosexuals don't flaunt anything, they are still targetted. lol people like me? way to go overboard :D. all i say is that since some people take offense hthey might wanna reconsider having parades celebrating their sexuality which people are either indifferent to or take offense at. i just dont see the point. i dont have a problem with homosexuals but i just dont see why they need gay paardes when i dont need a straight parade
They need them because there is active pressure and the very real threat that their rights as individuals could be taken away at any minute, and also that in many parts of the world their rights are still not considered a given - for example in Uganda which is the center of the discussion. They are still very much actively fighting for their own rights as well as the rights of other human beings. The "Gay" rights parades also preach the values of sexual tolerance which isn't exclusive to just homosexuality, it also includes the rights of transexuals, bi-sexuals, etc, (note that this includes those who are just born into the world with a genetic rarity and could do nothing about it) which emcompasses a larger group than the majority of those taking part in the parade.
|
On November 23 2012 23:43 DisneylandSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:36 DisneylandSC wrote:On November 23 2012 23:24 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 23:21 mcc wrote:On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever. And that is a problem that warrants banning them why ? i neevr said it should be stopped. i personally dont see the use in them so i think people should stop doing these paardes especiall yif others get offended. celebrate your homosexuality in private. if they dont want to stop well then people wil just get offended and its just too bad. i never said anything about bannning the parades . l2r liquidlahara I think you popl should stop using th lttr "e". I don't think it is rally ncssary to us it, txts ar still radibl without thm, plus I and othrs might find th us of it offnsiv. Practic what you prach and stop using th lttr "e".! Or only us it in privat! - Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:40 lahara wrote:
lol people like me? way to go overboard :D. all i say is that since some people take offense hthey might wanna reconsider having parades celebrating their sexuality which people are either indifferent to or take offense at. i just dont see the point. i dont have a problem with homosexuals but i just dont see why they need gay paardes when i dont need a straight parade
Hypocrit!
if u try real hard ull notice that the bolded part "all that onsense" is not written by me but by a user named shadymmj...
but ncie try.
Idiot!
gg wp
liquidlahara
User was temp banned for this post.
|
Theres alot of talk about "shifting moral standards", as if its totally arbitrary and unpredictable. Look at the big paradigm shifts in the last few hundred years: The ending of slavery, womens sufferage, black civil rights movement, tolerance for homosexuality, anti bullying/childrens rights. They all follow a pretty clear, linear path.
Im not a moral absolutist, I dont have the answer, but the extreme moral relativism in this thread is kinda stupid.
|
Well we've already had the obligatory attempted bash America derail (twice!), we've had the obligatory moral relativism arguments being advanced and thankfully pushed back against hard, and the twist into "I don't understand why gays have to be so open about being gay" land. Thread is right on schedule.
Laws like this are a prelude to a government ignoring or encouraging mob violence against the targeted minority, in this case homosexuals.
Some people appear to believe that "sovereignty" is a natural right that is more sacrosanct than anything, and that the "sovereignty" flag can be waved to excuse just about anything a government does. A government doesn't have an automatic right to sovereignty.
|
On November 23 2012 23:45 lahara wrote:
if u try real hard ull notice that the bolded part "all that onsense" is not written by me but by a user named shadymmj...
but ncie try.
Idiot!
gg wp
liquidlahara
On November 23 2012 23:40 lahara wrote:
lol people like me? way to go overboard :D. all i say is that since some people take offense hthey might wanna reconsider having parades celebrating their sexuality which people are either indifferent to or take offense at. i just dont see the point. i dont have a problem with homosexuals but i just dont see why they need gay paardes when i dont need a straight parade
what?
|
On November 23 2012 23:51 DisneylandSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:45 lahara wrote:
if u try real hard ull notice that the bolded part "all that onsense" is not written by me but by a user named shadymmj...
but ncie try.
Idiot!
gg wp
liquidlahara
Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:40 lahara wrote:
Homosexuals used to hide their sexuality.
People like you kept drafting their names on lists and publishing them in the newspaper so they would get fired.
Historic record shows that when homosexuals don't flaunt anything, they are still targetted. lol people like me? way to go overboard :D. all i say is that since some people take offense hthey might wanna reconsider having parades celebrating their sexuality which people are either indifferent to or take offense at. i just dont see the point. i dont have a problem with homosexuals but i just dont see why they need gay paardes when i dont need a straight parade
what?[/QUOTE]
I rarely reconsider aspects of my life when people take offence by it. Are you a people pleaser? Thinking your needs are not as important as others comfort? I haven't partaken in any parades but, I really do not see your view as applicable to anyone's life.
|
On November 23 2012 23:40 lahara wrote:
lol people like me? way to go overboard :D. all i say is that since some people take offense hthey might wanna reconsider having parades celebrating their sexuality which people are either indifferent to or take offense at. i just dont see the point. i dont have a problem with homosexuals but i just dont see why they need gay paardes when i dont need a straight parade
Gay pride parades or events are ways to build the self-confidence and emotional/psychological security of gay people, to reinforce in their heads the idea that they can be open about their sexuality in public and not have to be afraid that they're going to get harassed or assaulted about it.
|
On November 23 2012 23:40 lahara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:31 zalz wrote:On November 23 2012 23:24 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 23:21 mcc wrote:On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever. And that is a problem that warrants banning them why ? i neevr said it should be stopped. i personally dont see the use in them so i think people should stop doing these paardes especiall yif others get offended. celebrate your homosexuality in private. if they dont want to stop well then people wil just get offended and its just too bad. i never said anything about bannning the parades . l2r liquidlahara Homosexuals used to hide their sexuality. People like you kept drafting their names on lists and publishing them in the newspaper so they would get fired. Historic record shows that when homosexuals don't flaunt anything, they are still targetted. lol people like me? way to go overboard :D. all i say is that since some people take offense hthey might wanna reconsider having parades celebrating their sexuality which people are either indifferent to or take offense at. i just dont see the point. i dont have a problem with homosexuals but i just dont see why they need gay paardes when i dont need a straight parade
But you're ignoring the positive things that come out of the parade. One of the major reasons for having it is to help other gay people come out and be proud of their orientation rather than live in shame from the social stigma associated with being gay in many countries, including first world countries. In general you should avoid offending people if possible, but what they're doing has very important positive consequences; it helps people escape from the psychological torment of suppressing their own sexuality. Clearly you shouldn't say that not offending extremely religious people is more important.
Secondly you have to draw the line at what should be considered offensive and what not...like what group of people do you want to respect and take seriously. Would you avoid offending neo-nazis by supporting democratic, non-racist policies? Would you avoid offending religious preachers by supporting the teaching of evolution in schools?
Now if you're talking specifically about Uganda, then you're offending a lot more people and that needs to be taken into account. In that case, just ask yourself objectively whether the striving towards a culture that accepts gays and teaches them that its okay to be whatever orientation they are is something which is more important than offending a group of hardcore Christians (and as pointed out in this thread, many of whom have been the target of ridiculous propaganda about the evilness of gays).
|
On November 23 2012 23:51 DisneylandSC wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:45 lahara wrote:
if u try real hard ull notice that the bolded part "all that onsense" is not written by me but by a user named shadymmj...
but ncie try.
Idiot!
gg wp
liquidlahara
Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:40 lahara wrote:
lol people like me? way to go overboard :D. all i say is that since some people take offense hthey might wanna reconsider having parades celebrating their sexuality which people are either indifferent to or take offense at. i just dont see the point. i dont have a problem with homosexuals but i just dont see why they need gay paardes when i dont need a straight parade
what?
are u saying this world is free of people ta<king being offended by homosexuality? its a true statement, i however am not offended by it so whats ure point?
|
the ignorance of some posters in this thread...
|
On November 23 2012 23:55 radscorpion9 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:40 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 23:31 zalz wrote:On November 23 2012 23:24 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 23:21 mcc wrote:On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever. And that is a problem that warrants banning them why ? i neevr said it should be stopped. i personally dont see the use in them so i think people should stop doing these paardes especiall yif others get offended. celebrate your homosexuality in private. if they dont want to stop well then people wil just get offended and its just too bad. i never said anything about bannning the parades . l2r liquidlahara Homosexuals used to hide their sexuality. People like you kept drafting their names on lists and publishing them in the newspaper so they would get fired. Historic record shows that when homosexuals don't flaunt anything, they are still targetted. lol people like me? way to go overboard :D. all i say is that since some people take offense hthey might wanna reconsider having parades celebrating their sexuality which people are either indifferent to or take offense at. i just dont see the point. i dont have a problem with homosexuals but i just dont see why they need gay paardes when i dont need a straight parade But you're ignoring the positive things that come out of the parade. One of the major reasons for having it is to help other gay people come out and be proud of their orientation rather than live in shame from the social stigma associated with being gay in many countries, including first world countries. In general you should avoid offending people if possible, but what they're doing has very important positive consequences; it helps people escape from the psychological torment of suppressing their own sexuality. Clearly you shouldn't say that not offending extremely religious people is more important. Secondly you have to draw the line at what should be considered offensive and what not...like what group of people do you want to respect and take seriously. Would you avoid offending neo-nazis by supporting democratic, non-racist policies? Would you avoid offending religious preachers by supporting the teaching of evolution in schools? Now if you're talking specifically about Uganda, then you're offending a lot more people and that needs to be taken into account. In that case, just ask yourself objectively whether the striving towards a culture that accepts gays and teaches them that its okay to be whatever orientation they are is something which is more important than offending a group of hardcore Christians (and as pointed out in this thread, many of whom have been the target of ridiculous propaganda about the evilness of gays).
there is nothing about being gay ot take pride in just like i dont take pride in being hetero. either youre gay or youre not nothing to be proud of. its like saying ure proud to be a dude or poroud to be a girl
|
On November 23 2012 23:56 lahara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 23:51 DisneylandSC wrote:On November 23 2012 23:45 lahara wrote:
if u try real hard ull notice that the bolded part "all that onsense" is not written by me but by a user named shadymmj...
but ncie try.
Idiot!
gg wp
liquidlahara
On November 23 2012 23:40 lahara wrote:
lol people like me? way to go overboard :D. all i say is that since some people take offense hthey might wanna reconsider having parades celebrating their sexuality which people are either indifferent to or take offense at. i just dont see the point. i dont have a problem with homosexuals but i just dont see why they need gay paardes when i dont need a straight parade
what? are u saying this world is free of people ta<king being offended by homosexuality? its a true statement, i however am not offended by it so whats ure point?
No, I'm saying that banning something from public (be it legal or by pressure from a society) simply because someone claims to be offended is a bad idea. It can be a contributing factor but should never be accepted as sufficient in and on itself.
Anyone can claim to be offended about anything. There is no way for anyone to proof they are not. If you think something is not right make an argument for this. If you are offended by something, simply don't look at it / partake in it and deal with it like a grownup.
|
On November 23 2012 23:57 Destro wrote:
the ignorance of some posters in this thread...
Well to be honest it isn't ignorance, it's just a fact that fundamentally it's possible for people to consider deviant sexuality as immoral because morality systems aren't perfect / concrete / universal. It's going to be an ongoing issue regardless of what gender / sexuality / moral maxims system you cohere to. For example, the fact that middle age and older males still find younger females sexually attractive and we end up with alot of marriages where a 40-50 year old male marries a young 18-24 year old female is extremely repulsive to me, yet it is coherent with heterosexuality and our biology.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
