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On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
there's quite a difference between anti-gay laws and anti-gay-behaviour laws. most laws fall under the latter, i.e. to discourage open homosexuality, because it is simply not practical to enforce the former.
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive, and let other countries make their own laws.
I find open displays of religious fervour offensive and disturbing. However, I don't lobby to have them banned, I don't even lobby to force religious parents to not indoctrinate their kids. I just make a point of not being around when they happen, I suggest you do the same.
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On November 23 2012 20:48 EvilLiBraRian wrote:
. As is the habit of parliaments worldwide, the Ugandan leadership has chosen the end-of-year rush to push this bill through in a largely christian nation.
I'm not religious but please..... there are FAR more Islamic nations where homosexuality is illegal (some where it is punishable by death) than christian nations where it is likewise.And in my opinion they are fine to make whatever laws they want in their own country so long as they don't try to bring that ideology to the west.We are already starting to see that creeping in with a sharia law party in Belgium winning two seats in the recent elections which should be a big concern for the far left since sharia law is not compatible with their own views on homosexuality.
Link proving my statement that sharia law party has recently won seats in Belgium : https://midnightwatcher.wordpress.com/2012/11/09/belgium-muslim-politicians-win-municipal-elections-in-brussels-vow-to-turn-belgium-into-islamic-state-ruled-by-sharia-law/
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On November 23 2012 21:14 EtherealBlade wrote:
So if there's strong support for it throughout the country what's your deal with it? Let them make their own laws, they aren't a colony. There are other moral standards than Western.
I don't care one bit for the sovereignty of nations when violating the rights of the individual.
An atrocity here is an atrocity there. No invisible line on a map will change that.
there's quite a difference between anti-gay laws and anti-gay-behaviour laws. most laws fall under the latter, i.e. to discourage open homosexuality, because it is simply not practical to enforce the former.
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive, and let other countries make their own laws.
You're not finishing your thought.
Explain how you finding something offensive gives you the right to dictate that it must be banned.
"I find it offensive" so what? A dozen things offend me on a daily basis, but why is it you that instantly screams for censorship?
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Russian Federation367 Posts
Totally support this, Africa is much more clever than white people world and we are calling them 3rd world countries. Maybe it is us who are really 3rd world countries and this world is not about money, but about morality?
User was temp banned for this post.
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On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
there's quite a difference between anti-gay laws and anti-gay-behaviour laws. most laws fall under the latter, i.e. to discourage open homosexuality, because it is simply not practical to enforce the former.
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive, and let other countries make their own laws.
Well, cased closed then.
If it offends you, clearly gays are out of order and shouldn't be allowed to express their love openly.
Pathetic...
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On November 23 2012 22:43 agfoxGnom wrote:
Totally support this, Africa is much more clever than white people world and we are calling them 3rd world countries. Maybe it is us who are really 3rd world countries and this world is not about money, but about morality?
If I ever doubt that I am on the right side of history, I need only listen to the other side to have my worries put to rest.
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Its not a matter of gay rights, but human rights. Its up there with gender equality. The world needs to stop being so fucking national and stand up for people in other countries who are being opressed in such a fashion. Its our duty as humans to help our fellows humans.
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There are much much much much much more worse problems going on in uganda that makes this issue look like a cold flu. The country is in a state of poverty, as well as being riled with corruption. Then you got the education problems although that falls under poverty. And there is also the problem of child labour and trafficking.
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On November 23 2012 22:39 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 20:48 EvilLiBraRian wrote:
. As is the habit of parliaments worldwide, the Ugandan leadership has chosen the end-of-year rush to push this bill through in a largely christian nation.
I'm not religious but please..... there are FAR more Islamic nations where homosexuality is illegal (some where it is punishable by death) than christian nations where it is likewise. -snip-
What exactly is your point? He's not attacking christianity, just stating a relevant fact; approaching christmas we have
A) People distracted by their religious holiday
B) People are more focused on "family values" around christmas, and so the anti-homosexual supporters will have more fervour.
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Like some people have already said... I agree, this is bad and something that shouldn't happen, but I really don't feel that this is the most important thing we need to focus on. There are a lot worse things going on in Uganda and the whole of Africa, in fact, for example the civil war that's going on in Congo... Solve the fighting first, then we can work on their ideas ^^
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Legislating sexuality is very different from legislating sexual behaviors which may endanger, harm or impeach on other people's rights, law and justice is about equality / fairness, not what is moral and "right" - though it bases the values on which fairness is judged on the society's constructs of morality. This is why we have laws against rape, sexual harassment / assault, but we don't have laws against having sexual thoughts or being sexually active, because that would be absurd. Try applying the very basics of fairness or the concept of the veil of ignorance to this, if gays protested and tried to vote in laws which give out jail sentences to heterosexuals simply because they are heterosexual, not because they made any wrong decision or impeached on other people, they would be the laughing stock of the entire world.
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On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this.
well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever.
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On November 23 2012 22:41 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 21:14 EtherealBlade wrote:
So if there's strong support for it throughout the country what's your deal with it? Let them make their own laws, they aren't a colony. There are other moral standards than Western. I don't care one bit for the sovereignty of nations when violating the rights of the individual. An atrocity here is an atrocity there. No invisible line on a map will change that. Show nested quote +there's quite a difference between anti-gay laws and anti-gay-behaviour laws. most laws fall under the latter, i.e. to discourage open homosexuality, because it is simply not practical to enforce the former.
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive, and let other countries make their own laws. You're not finishing your thought. Explain how you finding something offensive gives you the right to dictate that it must be banned. "I find it offensive" so what? A dozen things offend me on a daily basis, but why is it you that instantly screams for censorship?
It's up to each society to determine what's offensive and what should be law. These 'rights' that you speak of are relative to the society that you find yourself in. They are not absolute. I bet you can't walk around naked in the streets of your home country. That's just as much of a 'rights violation' in the sense that you are not simply free to behave however you please in public.
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On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever.
So we should JAIL them? Isn't freedom of speech relevant? Even if someone states an opinion that I hated, as long as it didn't construe as assault or battery where it caused damages to my well being I'm not going to press legal charges, let alone attempt to legislate it just so my opinion is reaffirmed.
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On November 23 2012 22:57 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever. So we should JAIL them? Isn't freedom of speech relevant? Even if someone states an opinion that I hated, as long as it didn't construe as assault or battery where it caused damages to my well being I'm not going to press legal charges, let alone attempt to legislate it just so my opinion is reaffirmed.
lol wut? i said i think the parades are unnecessary... who said anybody should jail them?
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On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever.
Well, there wouldn't be any straight pride parades, because straigth people haven't been discriminated against for centuries. Gay Pride celebrates the end of discrimination and an open, more tolerant world.
I don't see how one can take offense from that...
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On November 23 2012 22:58 lahara wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 22:57 Caihead wrote:On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever. So we should JAIL them? Isn't freedom of speech relevant? Even if someone states an opinion that I hated, as long as it didn't construe as assault or battery where it caused damages to my well being I'm not going to press legal charges, let alone attempt to legislate it just so my opinion is reaffirmed. lol wut? i said i think the parades are unnecessary... who said anybody should jail them?
Sorry misread on my part.
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On November 23 2012 22:56 jdsowa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 22:41 zalz wrote:On November 23 2012 21:14 EtherealBlade wrote:
So if there's strong support for it throughout the country what's your deal with it? Let them make their own laws, they aren't a colony. There are other moral standards than Western. I don't care one bit for the sovereignty of nations when violating the rights of the individual. An atrocity here is an atrocity there. No invisible line on a map will change that. there's quite a difference between anti-gay laws and anti-gay-behaviour laws. most laws fall under the latter, i.e. to discourage open homosexuality, because it is simply not practical to enforce the former.
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive, and let other countries make their own laws. You're not finishing your thought. Explain how you finding something offensive gives you the right to dictate that it must be banned. "I find it offensive" so what? A dozen things offend me on a daily basis, but why is it you that instantly screams for censorship? It's up to each society to determine what's offensive and what should be law. These 'rights' that you speak of are relative to the society that you find yourself in. They are not absolute. I bet you can't walk around naked in the streets of your home country. That's just as much of a 'rights violation' in the sense that you are not simply free to behave however you please in public.
It's up to each society to determine what's offensive and what should be law? Says who? It might be the status quo, but it's revolting and ought to be revoked. The truth of that is no more obvious when you see the obscenities that are inflicted upon the people of these nations.
I said it before, no invisible line will make something any less horrible. You, and many others, overestimate the importance of sovereignty. You ought to look at humanity from an international position, and you would understand that real human beings will end up having their lives destroyed over this.
How morally bankrupt must you be when you cease to care for another human being because of a border? Don't sell your spineless position as anything other than the cowardice that it is. Sovereignty can go to hell when it treads upon the rights of the individual.
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On November 23 2012 23:01 Caihead wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 22:58 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:57 Caihead wrote:On November 23 2012 22:54 lahara wrote:On November 23 2012 22:38 Hairy wrote:On November 23 2012 22:32 shadymmj wrote:
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive... I would be MOST interested to hear your reasoning behind this. well i thinnk people shouild just stop making a thing out of it at all. theres no straight parades where we rub our straightness into gay peoples faces... so they shouldnt go around habing gay parade which in my opinion not only serve the purpose of clebration but are alos intended to provoke as many gay people especially younger ones enjoy the breaking of a tabu or whatever. So we should JAIL them? Isn't freedom of speech relevant? Even if someone states an opinion that I hated, as long as it didn't construe as assault or battery where it caused damages to my well being I'm not going to press legal charges, let alone attempt to legislate it just so my opinion is reaffirmed. lol wut? i said i think the parades are unnecessary... who said anybody should jail them? Sorry misread on my part.
apology accepted
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On November 23 2012 23:01 zalz wrote:Show nested quote +On November 23 2012 22:56 jdsowa wrote:On November 23 2012 22:41 zalz wrote:On November 23 2012 21:14 EtherealBlade wrote:
So if there's strong support for it throughout the country what's your deal with it? Let them make their own laws, they aren't a colony. There are other moral standards than Western. I don't care one bit for the sovereignty of nations when violating the rights of the individual. An atrocity here is an atrocity there. No invisible line on a map will change that. there's quite a difference between anti-gay laws and anti-gay-behaviour laws. most laws fall under the latter, i.e. to discourage open homosexuality, because it is simply not practical to enforce the former.
while i don't support sending gays to jail, i'm actually in favour of discouraging gay pride and all that nonsense. some cultures find it offensive, i find it offensive, and let other countries make their own laws. You're not finishing your thought. Explain how you finding something offensive gives you the right to dictate that it must be banned. "I find it offensive" so what? A dozen things offend me on a daily basis, but why is it you that instantly screams for censorship? It's up to each society to determine what's offensive and what should be law. These 'rights' that you speak of are relative to the society that you find yourself in. They are not absolute. I bet you can't walk around naked in the streets of your home country. That's just as much of a 'rights violation' in the sense that you are not simply free to behave however you please in public. It's up to each society to determine what's offensive and what should be law? Says who? It might be the status quo, but it's revolting and ought to be revoked. The truth of that is no more obvious when you see the obscenities that are inflicted upon the people of these nations. I said it before, no invisible line will make something any less horrible. You, and many others, overestimate the importance of sovereignty. You ought to look at humanity from an international position, and you would understand that real human beings will end up having their lives destroyed over this. How morally bankrupt must you be when you cease to care for another human being because of a border? Don't sell your spineless position as anything other than the cowardice that it is. Sovereignty can go to hell when it treads upon the rights of the individual.
Well to be honest, if you are arguing on the grounds of sovereignty / basis of law, then just use the basis of law and justice, i.e. fairness and veil of ignorance / concept of precedence in common law against them. If you follow the same ideology then no one should complain for example of the legislation of any faith based or opinion based law - say for example sharia law - in another country, no one should complain about the legislation of a police state or a dictatorship in another country - say for example north korea, and especially no one should complain about the voting in of any political party in another country democratically - say for example Hamas and Hezbollah.
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