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On October 03 2012 02:24 Thezzphai wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 02:20 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 02:16 antilyon wrote:On October 03 2012 02:12 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 02:11 antilyon wrote:
There's also another thing OP didn't sepecified. Does they know each other powers and who have those powers? i did specify this, please read the thread D: >They know the silhouette of the others >they know which silhouette owns which power Sorry about that :/ So, does GDG can activate his power more than once? its a one off, once it's activated he can't stop it, he can't reactivated at a later date. he has to live through the same 3 days 12000 times. his main weakness will be his psyche at the end of it. It sounds like he has to activate it consciously, so he wouldn't be able to do anything if he was assassinated in his sleep or something right? Or does it automatically activate the first time he dies?
for the sake of consistency, lets assume from now on he doesnt choose when to activate it, it begins automatically, as soon as he wakes up on the first day of the 365 day period.
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On October 03 2012 02:22 reapsen wrote:
So the core question of this fun debate is not about who will "win" this, but how can we keep the fiction rolling? ;-)
YES!
it was originally
Person A: This is how i would win
Person B: this strategy would beat yours
Person C: This strategy counters yours
Repeat for 3 hours in the library and 4 hours on skype
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On October 03 2012 02:05 Silencioseu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:56 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 01:52 xuanzue wrote:On October 03 2012 01:45 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 01:42 xuanzue wrote:
if the guy 4 kill the guy 3, can the guy 4 control the death note? Yes. He won't necessarily know where it is though. unless he has it in his possession it is useless. then I'll call the guy 4 will win. guy 4 only need to know who is guy 3 and where is. i suppose the universe isn't deterministic, so he can't ask for number of lottery. to make money he can ask for a loan shark, and how to kill the shark with any sort of poison/weapon. or he can ask how to cheat in any casino. guy 4 can travel where the guy 3, and try to kill him, the voice can bring many ways to kill him. one time he's dead, will ask to the voice where the death note is. and then ask the voice for the name of the others guys. the death note requires a face, which requires him to see someone personally. a voice, no matter how omniscient, cannot describe someone so well, and, say it could, the human brain is not powerful enough to perfectly imagine the face based off of a description. He can ask for the location of his target, go and look at his face for a sec and then proceed to kill the dude. As simple as that, being all knowing is so effing op
if i knew i was being hunted by a guy who needed my face to kill me, i'd probably put on some sort of mask
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If GDG is only able to use his power once then surely he'll have used it up in the 'training period' before he knows he has to kill a set of people. He will be rich and a master of many things but he won't have any power to fight with.. bit of a shame really because he's my fave.
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What's allowed during trial year needs to be clearer.
If CIA computer is allowed in discussion to find out things in the trial period, then this is gonna be about who has the best chance to access the info first.
All guy no.3 needs to do is find out other guys' names with the computer. Other guys need to prevent this scenario at all cost. Getting info during trial period is basically a free win for deathnote guy.
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teleporter is just too weak by his own, he needs to team up with time pause, but what's ensuring him that time pause won't kill him
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On October 03 2012 02:27 Irrelevant Label wrote:
It still seems like GDG is the really weird and complicated one.
So how exactly does his time loop interact with the rest of the world that the other guys are in? It sounds a lot like he basically has 12000 attempts to kill all the other guys within the a three day span and then in what the other guys would all experience as day 4 of the year long contest he becomes the unarmed guy in a gunfight.
Can omniscient guy's adviser account for changes in activities GDG will employ from "attempt to attempt"? And if so...how? He only has three questions or those three days, assuming it goes the full extent, yet GDG has 12000 iterations of those three days. How does time freeze guy's time freeze interact with GDG?
It seems like either a paradox, or they all effectively have 12000 attempts with regards to their interaction with GDG rendering his ability useless, or a next to certainty that he would end up winning thanks to so many 'lives' and so much time to figure things out and come up with a plan that kills the others all while they are in what they would experience as just the opening three days of the 'contest' and on step one of trying to identify and locate one another.
Also:
Assuming he lives the days 'separately' from the others and they do not effectively have 12000 chances to deal with him as well then 12000 re-attempts of the same three day span represents many magnitudes more ability to have knowledge than three answered questions no matter how perfectly answered. Either GDG or not so "omniscient" guy is effectively powerless in light of the other and that is probably the quickest way to make the first cut.
This seems reasonable.
The key for GDG vs omniscient is: what would be the answer for "How can I kill GDG today?". If it rerolls everyday with the correct answer for the day, GDG is doomed, if the answer doesn't change then Omnscient is doomed.
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On October 03 2012 02:27 Irrelevant Label wrote:
It still seems like GDG is the really weird and complicated one.
So how exactly does his time loop interact with the rest of the world that the other guys are in? It sounds a lot like he basically has 12000 attempts to kill all the other guys within the a three day span and then in what the other guys would all experience as day 4 of the year long contest he becomes the unarmed guy in a gunfight.
Can omniscient guy's adviser account for changes in activities GDG will employ from "attempt to attempt"? And if so...how? He only has three questions or those three days, assuming it goes the full extent, yet GDG has 12000 iterations of those three days. How does time freeze guy's time freeze interact with GDG?
It seems like either a paradox, or they all effectively have 12000 attempts with regards to their interaction with GDG rendering his ability useless, or a next to certainty that he would end up winning thanks to so many 'lives' and so much time to figure things out and come up with a plan that kills the others all while they are in what they would experience as just the opening three days of the 'contest' and on step one of trying to identify and locate one another.
Also:
Assuming he lives the days 'separately' from the others and they do not effectively have 12000 chances to deal with him as well then 12000 re-attempts of the same three day span represents many magnitudes more ability to have knowledge than three answered questions no matter how perfectly answered. Either GDG or not so "omniscient" guy is effectively powerless in light of the other and that is probably the quickest way to make the first cut.
thankyou for putting in so much thought, you raised a lot of good points.
He is aware of every other "Time loop" he lives through. the others are not. Yes, in day 4 he becomes the unarmed guy in a gun fight, but imagine, if you had 12000x3 days to LEARN what could you achieve? you could get a Ph.D in any field, learn any number of tactics for war, et cetera. knowledge is his power. use it.
The omniscient one is tricky. I think an optimal solution would be for it to only have knowledge of the current time loop. while this makes it not omniscient. it is omniscient enough for the purpose of most scenarios. the 24 hour rule works nicely here too. as each time loop is 3 days, on day 3 of time loop 1, the omniscient voice could see as far as day 1 of the NEXT loop, and all previous loops.
GDG Basically needs to eliminate as many contenders as possible IN HIS FINAL LOOP! as they will all be reborn, WITHOUT knowledge of being killed, in the next loop!
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Groundhog Day man should just set his three day timer, use his do-overs to continually track and memorize each of the other contestants, find a way to kill each one of them in turn, reliving each scenario until he perfects the execution and succeeds (I assume it would take time and be exceedingly difficult, but he would have more than a lifetime of do-overs to get it right), and eventually he will have killed the other contestants at least once each, and hopefully still have time left on the 100 years of do-overs so that in his final reliving none of them has died, but since he killed all of them in his own alternate universes, he won the game and becomes a god since it is not specified in their dream that there must be only one left at one specific point in time. gg no re, am I right? Or am I nit-picking the rules so much that I'm breaking it?
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On October 03 2012 02:37 Silencioseu wrote:
teleporter is just too weak by his own, he needs to team up with time pause, but what's ensuring him that time pause won't kill him
teleporter is the hardest to win, sure, but he's also my favorite to win it :D
there HAS TO be a way i can save him if he teams up with death note, i'm sure of it D:
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Well if i read the thread correctly then the guys can team up, can't they?
So teleport guy and omniscient guy team up.
First day (when they are a team): Omniscient guy asks where is guy 1? Then the teleport guy teleports to him stabs, shoots or whatever he does he kills the person from behind.
Second day : Omniscient guy asks where is guy 3 ? This isn't the same question because he asked for another person's location. Teleport guy kills him. After this there are 3 things that could happen.
1. Omniscient guy kills teleport guy when he comes back.
2. Teleport guy kills omniscient guy first.
3. They still are a team.
Guy 5... he won't achieve anything because his ability is fucking useless.
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On October 03 2012 02:37 Ikidomari wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 02:27 Irrelevant Label wrote:
It still seems like GDG is the really weird and complicated one.
So how exactly does his time loop interact with the rest of the world that the other guys are in? It sounds a lot like he basically has 12000 attempts to kill all the other guys within the a three day span and then in what the other guys would all experience as day 4 of the year long contest he becomes the unarmed guy in a gunfight.
Can omniscient guy's adviser account for changes in activities GDG will employ from "attempt to attempt"? And if so...how? He only has three questions or those three days, assuming it goes the full extent, yet GDG has 12000 iterations of those three days. How does time freeze guy's time freeze interact with GDG?
It seems like either a paradox, or they all effectively have 12000 attempts with regards to their interaction with GDG rendering his ability useless, or a next to certainty that he would end up winning thanks to so many 'lives' and so much time to figure things out and come up with a plan that kills the others all while they are in what they would experience as just the opening three days of the 'contest' and on step one of trying to identify and locate one another.
Also:
Assuming he lives the days 'separately' from the others and they do not effectively have 12000 chances to deal with him as well then 12000 re-attempts of the same three day span represents many magnitudes more ability to have knowledge than three answered questions no matter how perfectly answered. Either GDG or not so "omniscient" guy is effectively powerless in light of the other and that is probably the quickest way to make the first cut. thankyou for putting in so much thought, you raised a lot of good points. He is aware of every other "Time loop" he lives through. the others are not. Yes, in day 4 he becomes the unarmed guy in a gun fight, but imagine, if you had 12000x3 days to LEARN what could you achieve? you could get a Ph.D in any field, learn any number of tactics for war, et cetera. knowledge is his power. use it. The omniscient one is tricky. I think an optimal solution would be for it to only have knowledge of the current time loop. while this makes it not omniscient. it is omniscient enough for the purpose of most scenarios. the 24 hour rule works nicely here too. as each time loop is 3 days, on day 3 of time loop 1, the omniscient voice could see as far as day 1 of the NEXT loop, and all previous loops. GDG Basically needs to eliminate as many contenders as possible IN HIS FINAL LOOP! as they will all be reborn, WITHOUT knowledge of being killed, in the next loop!
i thought GDG repeats those 3 days, he's knowledge is still limited because he starts from the same spot, repeating the same days, yes he can go different paths, but what can he really acheive during 3 days b4 restarting?
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On October 03 2012 02:39 Ikidomari wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 02:37 Silencioseu wrote:
teleporter is just too weak by his own, he needs to team up with time pause, but what's ensuring him that time pause won't kill him teleporter is the hardest to win, sure, but he's also my favorite to win it :D there HAS TO be a way i can save him if he teams up with death note, i'm sure of it D:
BUFF HIM 1.0.2, GIVE HIM ROCKS(lol jk)
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On October 03 2012 02:38 Kommatiazo wrote:
Groundhog Day man should just set his three day timer, use his do-overs to continually track and memorize each of the other contestants, find a way to kill each one of them in turn, reliving each scenario until he perfects the execution and succeeds (I assume it would take time and be exceedingly difficult, but he would have more than a lifetime of do-overs to get it right), and eventually he will have killed the other contestants at least once each, and hopefully still have time left on the 100 years of do-overs so that in his final reliving none of them has died, but since he killed all of them in his own alternate universes, he won the game and becomes a god since it is not specified in their dream that there must be only one left at one specific point in time. gg no re, am I right? Or am I nit-picking the rules so much that I'm breaking it?
logically, the winner is the last one left alive. So you could interpret this as all 4 others dead simultaneously. so he has to kill them all in the same time loop. which is impossible due to different continents.
BEST CASE SCENARIO FOR GHG:
Kill omniscient with <x> strategy he spent 1000 times perfecting. minimum 7 hours to fly there. Fly to another continent (Minimum 12 hours, what with transport and all) kill the death note guy. Another 12 hours to travel to the time stopper. who uses his 5 hours to put distance between himself and GHG. another 5+ hours to track him down. 12 hours to get to the teleporter, who conveniently teleports to the other side of the world. another 12 hours to reach him again, when he teleports back to the original location (Guess what, 12 hours)
By now the 3 day period of GHG's dominance is over. teleporter has clear advantage and wins
I KNEW I COULD SAVE HIM
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On October 03 2012 02:40 Silencioseu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 02:37 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 02:27 Irrelevant Label wrote:
It still seems like GDG is the really weird and complicated one.
So how exactly does his time loop interact with the rest of the world that the other guys are in? It sounds a lot like he basically has 12000 attempts to kill all the other guys within the a three day span and then in what the other guys would all experience as day 4 of the year long contest he becomes the unarmed guy in a gunfight.
Can omniscient guy's adviser account for changes in activities GDG will employ from "attempt to attempt"? And if so...how? He only has three questions or those three days, assuming it goes the full extent, yet GDG has 12000 iterations of those three days. How does time freeze guy's time freeze interact with GDG?
It seems like either a paradox, or they all effectively have 12000 attempts with regards to their interaction with GDG rendering his ability useless, or a next to certainty that he would end up winning thanks to so many 'lives' and so much time to figure things out and come up with a plan that kills the others all while they are in what they would experience as just the opening three days of the 'contest' and on step one of trying to identify and locate one another.
Also:
Assuming he lives the days 'separately' from the others and they do not effectively have 12000 chances to deal with him as well then 12000 re-attempts of the same three day span represents many magnitudes more ability to have knowledge than three answered questions no matter how perfectly answered. Either GDG or not so "omniscient" guy is effectively powerless in light of the other and that is probably the quickest way to make the first cut. thankyou for putting in so much thought, you raised a lot of good points. He is aware of every other "Time loop" he lives through. the others are not. Yes, in day 4 he becomes the unarmed guy in a gun fight, but imagine, if you had 12000x3 days to LEARN what could you achieve? you could get a Ph.D in any field, learn any number of tactics for war, et cetera. knowledge is his power. use it. The omniscient one is tricky. I think an optimal solution would be for it to only have knowledge of the current time loop. while this makes it not omniscient. it is omniscient enough for the purpose of most scenarios. the 24 hour rule works nicely here too. as each time loop is 3 days, on day 3 of time loop 1, the omniscient voice could see as far as day 1 of the NEXT loop, and all previous loops. GDG Basically needs to eliminate as many contenders as possible IN HIS FINAL LOOP! as they will all be reborn, WITHOUT knowledge of being killed, in the next loop! i thought GDG repeats those 3 days, he's knowledge is still limited because he starts from the same spot, repeating the same days, yes he can go different paths, but what can he really acheive during 3 days b4 restarting?
he has the internet at his exposal. you can learn a lot. (Even is 99.9999% of it is lies)
Libraries also exist.
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Guy 5 would kill himself before anyone had the chance. Kinda obvious outcome there. He might be fine looping through the first time, and maybe even the second time, but eventually he'd just go insane.
Best combo is death note guy and omniscient guy teaming up, then omniscient guy killing the death note guy before he discovers his name (or death note guy discovering his name first).
Teleporting guy really stands no chance, since he has no idea where anyone is. Time guy would stand a chance if he actually had a way to get to everyone.
Alone the omniscient guy is really the only one with a chance, since he can just take his time getting info and planning things out.
Honestly it's not even a fair fight. Only 2 of the 5 stand a chance to begin with.
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On October 03 2012 02:47 Ikidomari wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 02:40 Silencioseu wrote:On October 03 2012 02:37 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 02:27 Irrelevant Label wrote:
It still seems like GDG is the really weird and complicated one.
So how exactly does his time loop interact with the rest of the world that the other guys are in? It sounds a lot like he basically has 12000 attempts to kill all the other guys within the a three day span and then in what the other guys would all experience as day 4 of the year long contest he becomes the unarmed guy in a gunfight.
Can omniscient guy's adviser account for changes in activities GDG will employ from "attempt to attempt"? And if so...how? He only has three questions or those three days, assuming it goes the full extent, yet GDG has 12000 iterations of those three days. How does time freeze guy's time freeze interact with GDG?
It seems like either a paradox, or they all effectively have 12000 attempts with regards to their interaction with GDG rendering his ability useless, or a next to certainty that he would end up winning thanks to so many 'lives' and so much time to figure things out and come up with a plan that kills the others all while they are in what they would experience as just the opening three days of the 'contest' and on step one of trying to identify and locate one another.
Also:
Assuming he lives the days 'separately' from the others and they do not effectively have 12000 chances to deal with him as well then 12000 re-attempts of the same three day span represents many magnitudes more ability to have knowledge than three answered questions no matter how perfectly answered. Either GDG or not so "omniscient" guy is effectively powerless in light of the other and that is probably the quickest way to make the first cut. thankyou for putting in so much thought, you raised a lot of good points. He is aware of every other "Time loop" he lives through. the others are not. Yes, in day 4 he becomes the unarmed guy in a gun fight, but imagine, if you had 12000x3 days to LEARN what could you achieve? you could get a Ph.D in any field, learn any number of tactics for war, et cetera. knowledge is his power. use it. The omniscient one is tricky. I think an optimal solution would be for it to only have knowledge of the current time loop. while this makes it not omniscient. it is omniscient enough for the purpose of most scenarios. the 24 hour rule works nicely here too. as each time loop is 3 days, on day 3 of time loop 1, the omniscient voice could see as far as day 1 of the NEXT loop, and all previous loops. GDG Basically needs to eliminate as many contenders as possible IN HIS FINAL LOOP! as they will all be reborn, WITHOUT knowledge of being killed, in the next loop! i thought GDG repeats those 3 days, he's knowledge is still limited because he starts from the same spot, repeating the same days, yes he can go different paths, but what can he really acheive during 3 days b4 restarting? he has the internet at his exposal. you can learn a lot. (Even is 99.9999% of it is lies) Libraries also exist.
There's also the possibility that he'll go insane
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I'm really sorry this thread turned into you guys poking (obvious) holes into my thread, clearly I needed to be far more specific in the rules at the start to make this thread Into "TL members debate over who would win and have fun arguments" rather than "TL Members call Ikidomari out on his shitty game and he has to make new rules to balance the game, annoying people whose strategy is now broken"
My god.. Is this.. how blizzard always feels? Is it truly this horrible?
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On October 03 2012 01:56 Ikidomari wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:52 xuanzue wrote:On October 03 2012 01:45 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 01:42 xuanzue wrote:
if the guy 4 kill the guy 3, can the guy 4 control the death note? Yes. He won't necessarily know where it is though. unless he has it in his possession it is useless. then I'll call the guy 4 will win. guy 4 only need to know who is guy 3 and where is. i suppose the universe isn't deterministic, so he can't ask for number of lottery. to make money he can ask for a loan shark, and how to kill the shark with any sort of poison/weapon. or he can ask how to cheat in any casino. guy 4 can travel where the guy 3, and try to kill him, the voice can bring many ways to kill him. one time he's dead, will ask to the voice where the death note is. and then ask the voice for the name of the others guys. the death note requires a face, which requires him to see someone personally. a voice, no matter how omniscient, cannot describe someone so well, and, say it could, the human brain is not powerful enough to perfectly imagine the face based off of a description.
the voice can give him advice to get the face of the other contenders. could be accessing DB of social network, or DB of governments.
Basically the guy 4 has now the power of guy 3 + the voice.
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On October 03 2012 02:08 Ikidomari wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:59 Penke wrote:
Guy 4 could do this strategy:
Step 1: Start by attaining a false ID with a fake name and clean his history so that there is no way of finding out his real name. (This process could include faking his own death, and asking his omniscient voice for help on how to remove himself from every database).
Step 2: Ask the voice where guy #3 will be on time X.
Step 3: Seek out guy #3, convince him to cooperate since 2v1v1v1 gives a higher chance of winning for those who cooperate. Guy #3 will hopefully follow along with guy #4's plans since he understands that a cooperation will insure that the other 3 guys will die. That will leave only 2 guys left, being him and guy #4.
Step 4: Have guy #3 killing the other 3 guys with his death notes when guy #4 tells their name one per day (after asking his voice of course).
Step 5: Guy #3 will likely try to kill guy #4 with his death notes, but will not succeed since he does not know his real name, and therefore can't write it on a paper. As guy #3 realises that it wasn't guy #4's real name. Guy #4 can use his complete knowledge to kill guy #3.
There are of course some holes here and there. For example, guy #3 might try to kill guy #4 with a regular weapon after the other three guys are dead, which guy #4 has to be careful about.
The hitman strategy is probably better. very good, let me offer a strategy to trump yours Groundhog guy dies of heart attack during his 3-day period Realized it was death note Instead teams up with death note Due to his ground hog day ability, he has thousands of attempts to find the identities of the others, this is highly probably achievable. Uses death note to kill all others Gets killed by death note finally? Has thousands of attempts to work out his only competitor in current scenario, death note guy
True, but this is assuming guy #3 will be killed during his 3 day period which I think is unlikely.
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EPT
