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the balance was so that it wasn't a 1-sided fight.
Instead of it being Mace vs Sword vs Bow vs Axe vs Guy on a hill with a sniper
It's Mace vs Sword vs Bow vs Axe vs Guy on a hill with a sniper that doesn't have a crosshair. (very VERY loose metaphor)
They all know each others powers, but not identity THEY HAD A YEAR TO TEST THEIR POWERS, in which they all left noticable signs if you were looking for it.
The groundhog guy doesn't "only get a year", because the 1st 3 days of that year are repeated 12000 times, and THEN the next 362 are played out (assuming it is activated immediately) He gets the full year, + 12000 lives at any given 3 day period.
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On October 03 2012 01:27 Ikidomari wrote:
IM SO SORRY I FORGOT TO INCLUDE IN THE OP
They all know the silhouette and POWER belonging to each silhouette
(Eg, they all know the death note is owned by a lean male, and that the ability to freeze time is owned by a small girl with long hair, or whatever it may be.)
If I was guy 4, I would use my questions first on the whereabouts of guy 3 because hes the only one with an weapon that I can use myself. He would be my first to be eliminated. I would need to keep my distance from him though, because if he obtains the shinigami eyes just one look of my face and I'm dead. But once I obtain the death note I would get the eyes myself because if I win and become a god, a shortened lifespan means nothing. I would use both powers to eliminate the rest of the people. I would also try to take advantage of guy 1 and guy 2's powers because they allow me once I obtain the death note to have a wider range of conditions to kill and manipulate them. I actually don't understand the powers of guy 5 really well though so this all can change on that.
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if the guy 4 kill the guy 3, can the guy 4 control the death note?
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im really sorry none of you understand the power of guy 5, my friends all understood it immediately D:
ill try and make it as simple as possible
Guy relives THE SAME SET OF 3 DAYS 12000 times
>1st time he dies on day 1 because he went to X location and bumped into teleporter
>2nd try he now knows where teleporter will be at said time, and can narrow down who the teleporter is.
>Repeat for 12000 times, he can learn who everyone is, where they will be at X time.
His only weakness is it would be impossible to kill them all in his 3 day period of utter supremacy.
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On October 03 2012 01:42 xuanzue wrote:
if the guy 4 kill the guy 3, can the guy 4 control the death note?
Yes. He won't necessarily know where it is though. unless he has it in his possession it is useless.
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This is interesting. I'm going to give this thought and get back to you guys.
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On October 03 2012 01:10 JinDesu wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:09 LoliSquad wrote:On October 03 2012 01:03 JinDesu wrote:On October 03 2012 01:01 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 01:00 rethos wrote:
The guy that can ask questions should ask: "What is the correct way to proceed to make sure that I win this?" Than does just that. just because he knows how to proceed doesn't mean he has the ability to do so. just because you're told how to solve a masters degree level math problem, doesn't mean you would have the ability to do so. "What is the easiest way within my ability for me to kill my 4 other opponents before they can kill me." Or a variant that is more specific even. Unless the omniscient voice returns "You're SOL here, buddy" It may be that there is no way for him to win. So if he can't win, then we are down one winner. We could have him influence who wins, but we can instantly say he can't win. Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:08 antilyon wrote:On October 03 2012 01:05 JinDesu wrote:On October 03 2012 01:04 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 01:03 JinDesu wrote:On October 03 2012 01:01 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 01:00 rethos wrote:
The guy that can ask questions should ask: "What is the correct way to proceed to make sure that I win this?" Than does just that. just because he knows how to proceed doesn't mean he has the ability to do so. just because you're told how to solve a masters degree level math problem, doesn't mean you would have the ability to do so. "What is the easiest way within my ability for me to kill my 4 other opponents before they can kill me." "It is impossible for you to win this fight" If that's true, then we can eliminate him, and argue about the rest. But we can't answer this kind os answer can we? Or else you'd just have to ask who will win. That could be a good second question. Again, OP said it's an omniscient voice. You can ask any question.
well the voice could just say something like "whoever kills the other ones first" 
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On October 03 2012 01:45 Ikidomari wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:42 xuanzue wrote:
if the guy 4 kill the guy 3, can the guy 4 control the death note? Yes. He won't necessarily know where it is though. unless he has it in his possession it is useless.
Might want to add this to the OP, by the way. It is kind of important to know.
Also might want to add that whether or not the person who kills number 3 knows what the book does or how it works if he comes into possession of the book.
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On October 03 2012 01:45 Ikidomari wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:42 xuanzue wrote:
if the guy 4 kill the guy 3, can the guy 4 control the death note? Yes. He won't necessarily know where it is though. unless he has it in his possession it is useless.
Guy 4 can use the voice to learn where the deathnote is
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On October 03 2012 01:36 Rimstalker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:29 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 01:27 Rimstalker wrote:
I don't 'get' guy 5's superpower. If he dies in the 4th spot, his whole time is up, and the survivor becomes a god?
What stops omniscient voice in his head guy from asking for the exact location guy 1, 2, 3, 5 will be at in X days?
'What will be the exact position of guy 1 on the 7th of October 2012, 15:00 GMT?' should be a valid question, or not? he gets to relive and fool around in a 3 day period 12000 times, discovering various strategies to survive the 3 days and beyond Omniscient voice question was answered earlier, he CAN ask where X person will be at X time, this doesn't mean he can get there in time, this also doesn't mean he has the ability to kill them. it's one question per day, with a 24 hour "future" foresight for the voice. sorry, but the scenario gets more and more stupid. Omniscient voice guy should easily have a billion or so dolares, he can have 20 assassin teams on call, that should easily do it. also, IF he is omniscient, than groundhog guy is all out of luck, his position will be known, and he will be assassinated - our hit squads use radiation, explosives and poisonous gas.
Yes, but GroundhogdayGuy(GDG), will also have unlimited resources, afterall, he would know everything that happened on the first day span.
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Omniscient guy could ask how to trick death note guy into killing the other three while making him think omniscient guy was someone else. Then off death note guy at his leisure.
Or better yet, 'How can I rig a series of events that will end up with me winning and offing the other 4'.
If this is all in a groundhog day, while it's hard to know how groundhog day man's power affects stuff that goes on outside him, it doesn't matter-- since omniscient guy is omniscient, groundhog day man's power is taken into consideration when he asks his question, since he'll be asking it every day for 100 years, the answer may change from day to day, and he'll still get through, so groundhog day man's powers don't help him survive at all. Even if groundhog day man knows about omniscient guy, on the last day of groundhog day man's powers, omniscient guy will just do something that negates that knowledge, so it doesn't help him at all.
In fact omniscient guy, since he's omniscient, would have been doing an iterative strategy from the very beginning that took into consideration the fact that groundhog day kept happening (since he's omniscient), in effect using groundhog day man's power against him.
Basically, if it is possible for omniscient guy to win, he will win.
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On October 03 2012 01:45 Ikidomari wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:42 xuanzue wrote:
if the guy 4 kill the guy 3, can the guy 4 control the death note? Yes. He won't necessarily know where it is though. unless he has it in his possession it is useless.
then I'll call the guy 4 will win.
guy 4 only need to know who is guy 3 and where is.
i suppose the universe isn't deterministic, so he can't ask for number of lottery.
to make money he can ask for a loan shark, and how to kill the shark with any sort of poison/weapon. or he can ask how to cheat in any casino.
guy 4 can travel where the guy 3, and try to kill him, the voice can bring many ways to kill him.
one time he's dead, will ask to the voice where the death note is.
and then ask the voice for the name of the others guys.
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Oh yeah? Well my dad can beat up your dad.
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On October 03 2012 01:50 antilyon wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:36 Rimstalker wrote:On October 03 2012 01:29 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 01:27 Rimstalker wrote:
I don't 'get' guy 5's superpower. If he dies in the 4th spot, his whole time is up, and the survivor becomes a god?
What stops omniscient voice in his head guy from asking for the exact location guy 1, 2, 3, 5 will be at in X days?
'What will be the exact position of guy 1 on the 7th of October 2012, 15:00 GMT?' should be a valid question, or not? he gets to relive and fool around in a 3 day period 12000 times, discovering various strategies to survive the 3 days and beyond Omniscient voice question was answered earlier, he CAN ask where X person will be at X time, this doesn't mean he can get there in time, this also doesn't mean he has the ability to kill them. it's one question per day, with a 24 hour "future" foresight for the voice. sorry, but the scenario gets more and more stupid. Omniscient voice guy should easily have a billion or so dolares, he can have 20 assassin teams on call, that should easily do it. also, IF he is omniscient, than groundhog guy is all out of luck, his position will be known, and he will be assassinated - our hit squads use radiation, explosives and poisonous gas. Yes, but GroundhogdayGuy(GDG), will also have unlimited resources, afterall, he would know everything that happened on the first day span.
GHG is the "Hard Counter" to early Omniscient guy
It would take a minimum of 5 days for omniscient to be in a position of power.
Day 1: learn how to survive next 24 hours
Day 2: Obtain money
Day 3: learn location of others
Day 4: Learn how to hire assassins and kill others
Day 5: Repeat step 3 until others are dead
GHG does not have to worry about anyone at all in the 1st 3 days, as he cannot lose in this period.
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On October 03 2012 01:44 Ikidomari wrote:
im really sorry none of you understand the power of guy 5, my friends all understood it immediately D:
ill try and make it as simple as possible
Guy relives THE SAME SET OF 3 DAYS 12000 times
>1st time he dies on day 1 because he went to X location and bumped into teleporter
>2nd try he now knows where teleporter will be at said time, and can narrow down who the teleporter is.
>Repeat for 12000 times, he can learn who everyone is, where they will be at X time.
His only weakness is it would be impossible to kill them all in his 3 day period of utter supremacy.
Please answer my question how 12000x against OMNISCIENT all-out assault by proxy can do anything? If he is your average guy, he has no chance of beating a well-funded operation WITHOUT locking himself in in very inaccessible places - which would mean he dies anyway in the end.
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On October 03 2012 01:52 xuanzue wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:45 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 01:42 xuanzue wrote:
if the guy 4 kill the guy 3, can the guy 4 control the death note? Yes. He won't necessarily know where it is though. unless he has it in his possession it is useless. then I'll call the guy 4 will win. guy 4 only need to know who is guy 3 and where is. i suppose the universe isn't deterministic, so he can't ask for number of lottery. to make money he can ask for a loan shark, and how to kill the shark with any sort of poison/weapon. or he can ask how to cheat in any casino. guy 4 can travel where the guy 3, and try to kill him, the voice can bring many ways to kill him. one time he's dead, will ask to the voice where the death note is. and then ask the voice for the name of the others guys.
the death note requires a face, which requires him to see someone personally. a voice, no matter how omniscient, cannot describe someone so well, and, say it could, the human brain is not powerful enough to perfectly imagine the face based off of a description.
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Hyp1 : Only #4 (through omniscience) and #5 (a few centuries of detective work) have a decent chance of identifying the others in a reasonnable amout of time. In a first approach this information gives them a huge advantage. If #3 gets enough information and survives the initial slaughter, he probably wins.
If the first question of #4 gives the exact habilities, identity and localization of his targets, he could get killed by #5 before question 2, so he has to disclose #5 name to #3 to hope for a kill on #5 during the first day. This in turn means #5 has to kill #3 first, before he writes the death note, or get a kill on #4 before he contacts #3.
If #5 manages to kill #3 before he gets contacted by #4. Then, depending on plane schedule, #4 may or may not get a second question. If he does, it's "how do I avoid getting killed today ?".
(Here we get to an interesting time paradox : should we suppose one fixed answer, or an everchanging answer, varying with the murder attempt made during this version of "today" ? )
Supposing #4 cannot be killed as long as he stays defensive (unless it is done through a deathnote), this means #5 must get #3 to issue a death note on #4 on D1, before killing #3 (D1 also). Then it is a matter of knowing if the various bottlenecks (identifying the targets, testing kills on #4, forcing #3 to write the needed deathnote, getting kills on #1/#2) can be achieved in the number of iterations he is given.
I would probably say yes.
Which would mean #4 has to start with another question than knowing his opponents, but which ?
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On October 03 2012 01:55 Rimstalker wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:44 Ikidomari wrote:
im really sorry none of you understand the power of guy 5, my friends all understood it immediately D:
ill try and make it as simple as possible
Guy relives THE SAME SET OF 3 DAYS 12000 times
>1st time he dies on day 1 because he went to X location and bumped into teleporter
>2nd try he now knows where teleporter will be at said time, and can narrow down who the teleporter is.
>Repeat for 12000 times, he can learn who everyone is, where they will be at X time.
His only weakness is it would be impossible to kill them all in his 3 day period of utter supremacy. Please answer my question how 12000x against OMNISCIENT all-out assault by proxy can do anything? If he is your average guy, he has no chance of beating a well-funded operation WITHOUT locking himself in in very inaccessible places - which would mean he dies anyway in the end.
answered in the post above yours.
EDIT: Omnsicient would also be EZPZ to find the identity of. Look at the guys in the last year who went from average joe to billionaire winning the stock market inventing cure for cancer et cetera. he would be very quickly discovered, which is why he has to play more offensively than defensively.
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On October 03 2012 01:54 Ikidomari wrote:Show nested quote +On October 03 2012 01:50 antilyon wrote:On October 03 2012 01:36 Rimstalker wrote:On October 03 2012 01:29 Ikidomari wrote:On October 03 2012 01:27 Rimstalker wrote:
I don't 'get' guy 5's superpower. If he dies in the 4th spot, his whole time is up, and the survivor becomes a god?
What stops omniscient voice in his head guy from asking for the exact location guy 1, 2, 3, 5 will be at in X days?
'What will be the exact position of guy 1 on the 7th of October 2012, 15:00 GMT?' should be a valid question, or not? he gets to relive and fool around in a 3 day period 12000 times, discovering various strategies to survive the 3 days and beyond Omniscient voice question was answered earlier, he CAN ask where X person will be at X time, this doesn't mean he can get there in time, this also doesn't mean he has the ability to kill them. it's one question per day, with a 24 hour "future" foresight for the voice. sorry, but the scenario gets more and more stupid. Omniscient voice guy should easily have a billion or so dolares, he can have 20 assassin teams on call, that should easily do it. also, IF he is omniscient, than groundhog guy is all out of luck, his position will be known, and he will be assassinated - our hit squads use radiation, explosives and poisonous gas. Yes, but GroundhogdayGuy(GDG), will also have unlimited resources, afterall, he would know everything that happened on the first day span. GHG is the "Hard Counter" to early Omniscient guy It would take a minimum of 5 days for omniscient to be in a position of power. Day 1: learn how to survive next 24 hours Day 2: Obtain money Day 3: learn location of others Day 4: Learn how to hire assassins and kill others Day 5: Repeat step 3 until others are dead GHG does not have to worry about anyone at all in the 1st 3 days, as he cannot lose in this period.
you are bending your rules as you go. You wrote they have one year to prepare. Omniscient wins lottery once, after that it's a bit of stock market trading and he has his billion. No way to track that down.
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Guy 4 could do this strategy:
Step 1: Start by attaining a false ID with a fake name and clean his history so that there is no way of finding out his real name. (This process could include faking his own death, and asking his omniscient voice for help on how to remove himself from every database).
Step 2: Ask the voice where guy #3 will be on time X.
Step 3: Seek out guy #3, convince him to cooperate since 2v1v1v1 gives a higher chance of winning for those who cooperate. Guy #3 will hopefully follow along with guy #4's plans since he understands that a cooperation will insure that the other 3 guys will die. That will leave only 2 guys left, being him and guy #4.
Step 4: Have guy #3 killing the other 3 guys with his death notes when guy #4 tells their name one per day (after asking his voice of course).
Step 5: Guy #3 will likely try to kill guy #4 with his death notes, but will not succeed since he does not know his real name, and therefore can't write it on a paper. As guy #3 realises that it wasn't guy #4's real name. Guy #4 can use his complete knowledge to kill guy #3.
There are of course some holes here and there. For example, guy #3 might try to kill guy #4 with a regular weapon after the other three guys are dead, which guy #4 has to be careful about.
The hitman strategy is probably better.
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EPT
