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On September 25 2012 00:39 ddrddrddrddr wrote:Nor do I say they give honor to them. I say that everybody would be treated equaliy regardless of their acts in life. Technically they would all be equally sinless. It doesn't happen that way though, not even with regards to treatment by Christians. We don't treat bad people the same with good people no matter our dogma, because it is against our nature. How incredibly religious are the Japanese people that they're able to switch off their internal right/wrong meter and replace it with the religious view that the dead are sinless? I have a hard time relating, but if it is the case, then their religion is deeply ingrained in their psyche indeed.
Without the influence of religion, tell me how you honor the dead without consideration of life. It can't be done. So even if the Japanese are able to accept it, they really can't expect anyone outside their religion to accept it. They'll either have to deal with the backlash or change religion. And they're choosing the former, which is fine. The idea that we're supposed to accept their honoring the war criminals because they believe it to be okay isn't going to work so well though.
I don't see how it's so hard to seperate the idea of a persons' soul and a persons' life, and I don't even believe in souls. In any case, the Shrine houses over 2 million souls that were killed in WW2. Should we expect every politician to never visit or honour those 2 million souls because of a few names that were enshrined alongside them (which was a complete dickhead move, without a doubt).
I personally agree that there should be an exclusion of those Class A war criminals, but that's also problematic because of Shinto theological reasons (basically, the Shinto priests at the shrine insist you can't).
There are plenty of things that the Japanese could do to improve the situation, but really most Japanese are just kinda tired of these conversations and topics because basically any dialogue or apology starts with a giant "Fuck You" (see every post by LetmeLose on this page). Very few Koreans or Chinese even make the tiniest effort to understand the Shrine issue, and few of them give credit to the vast majority of school districts that DON'T gloss over Japanese war crimes, but everyone goes crazy when wingnuts try to push the newest revisionist textbook.
Basically, imagine how you would feel if everyone judged Americans by only the actions of Tea Party individuals (but instead of supporting creationism, the Tea Party individuals were trying to justify the acts of war criminals). At some point you'd be tired of differentiating yourself from the wingnuts too, and many grow anti-Korean/Chinese resentment too due to the constant blame and outrage directed at all of Japan.
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Because it suits the Koreans and Chinese to act like this.
The Mr angry a few posts above me who uses the phrase "honor their war criminals" wtf... are you crazy? No Japanese person honors any war criminal.... Literally EVERYONE regrets the events in which the war criminals were enshrined there.
"Shrine officials have stated that unlike traditional Shinto shrines, all enshrined kami are immediately combined and inseparable, and therefore impossible to "remove"
also
"the presence of enshrined Class-A war criminals (such as Hideki Tōjō) at Yasukuni was the reason Emperor Hirohito refused to visit the shrine from 1978 until his death in 1989"
The class a war criminals were enshrined in 78 FYI.
So a "simple exclusion of the evil fuckers" isn't going to happen because even if they wanted to they couldn't.
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On September 25 2012 01:05 TheKwas wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 00:39 ddrddrddrddr wrote:Nor do I say they give honor to them. I say that everybody would be treated equaliy regardless of their acts in life. Technically they would all be equally sinless. It doesn't happen that way though, not even with regards to treatment by Christians. We don't treat bad people the same with good people no matter our dogma, because it is against our nature. How incredibly religious are the Japanese people that they're able to switch off their internal right/wrong meter and replace it with the religious view that the dead are sinless? I have a hard time relating, but if it is the case, then their religion is deeply ingrained in their psyche indeed.
Without the influence of religion, tell me how you honor the dead without consideration of life. It can't be done. So even if the Japanese are able to accept it, they really can't expect anyone outside their religion to accept it. They'll either have to deal with the backlash or change religion. And they're choosing the former, which is fine. The idea that we're supposed to accept their honoring the war criminals because they believe it to be okay isn't going to work so well though. I don't see how it's so hard to seperate the idea of a persons' soul and a persons' life, and I don't even believe in souls. In any case, the Shrine houses over 2 million souls that were killed in WW2. Should we expect every politician to never visit or honour those 2 million souls because of a few names that were enshrined alongside them (which was a complete dickhead move, without a doubt). I personally agree that there should be an exclusion of those Class A war criminals, but that's also problematic because of Shinto theological reasons (basically, the Shinto priests at the shrine insist you can't). There are plenty of things that the Japanese could do to improve the situation, but really most Japanese are just kinda tired of these conversations and topics because basically any dialogue or apology starts with a giant "Fuck You" (see every post by LetmeLose on this page). Very few Koreans or Chinese even make the tiniest effort to understand the Shrine issue, and few of them give credit to the vast majority of school districts that DON'T gloss over Japanese war crimes, but everyone goes crazy when wingnuts try to push the newest revisionist textbook. Basically, imagine how you would feel if everyone judged Americans by only the actions of Tea Party individuals (but instead of supporting creationism, the Tea Party individuals were trying to justify the acts of war criminals). At some point you'd be tired of differentiating yourself from the wingnuts too, and many grow anti-Korean/Chinese resentment too due to the constant blame and outrage directed at all of Japan.
We do that. We all do that. We talk about China and most people think about human rights and the tank man. We talk about America and most people think about wars in the middle east and fat people. We talk about Russia and people reimagine USSR. Popular notions of countries are condensed versions of a much more complicated environment but the world's a lot smaller now. The more things we know the less we know about the things. When Chinese people think of Japan, the thought that comes to mind is WWII. It's normal and unless something HUGE overtakes this conception, it's not going ot change.
It is very hard to separate the idea of a person's soul and the person's life, especially if you don't actually believe in a soul or have a different definition thereof. You can say you don't because you are speaking on an intellectual level. If you have someone you absolutely hate in your life die, you may find it very difficult to look upon the remnants with emotional separation from the living being, and yet death should do exactly that. Besides, the riots aren't based on thoughts, it's based on emotions. Calm people don't damage properties, much less ones that are already paid for.
In regards to LetmeLose's comments, that kind of sentiment is prevalent, which is why it's necessary to ACTIVELY appease the neighboring nations or be prepared for consequences. Wrong doings, when thought of as things one group of people done to another group, is very difficult to compensate for and very difficult to be forgotten. You think slavery is going to be forgotten despite of changes in policies and affirmative action? It's not something you just up and say "we've done enough, everybody's cool" some day. As soon as you find a way to solve this problem, you solve a HUGE number of problems along with it and we'll probably have world peace. Feel free to say if you think you have a solution.
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On September 25 2012 00:32 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 00:15 TheKwas wrote:
The british still fly their imperial flag, and their imperial crimes can probably give Japan a run for their money (granted, over a MUCH longer time period). Also, the Japanese flag is a pretty big issue in Japan and many people DO feel guilty about it's past role.
And, the Shrine thing has been explained a millions times already. The war criminals were not enshrined by the government, and according to the shinto religion the temple only enshrines souls--which are not held accountable or responsible for their life actions. Furthermore, the Shrine houses the souls of over 2 million people. I understand that China and Korea are upset, but do you really want the Japanese people to change their spiritual beliefs and culture for the sake of not offending China and Korea? How is that realistic or fair to modern Japanese?
There are lots of reasons to give the Japanese government grief, but those two are probably two of the most trivial issues to bring up. I'm sorry, I must have given the impression that I give a crap about how hurt the Japanese people must be once they are forced to not honor their war criminals. What about how degrading it is to the victims? How is it fair to them? I think it says a lot about you that you care more about the protecting every little detail of a spritual system that continues to hurt and offend the victims of war, when a symple exclusion of those evil fuckers would suffice.
To be brutally honest, i sincerly hope that "your kind" is not the majority of korea. Otherwise i might understand japans actions (edit: refusing to reach out to your obviously nonexisting hand) - you act like a dickhead.
Its degrading to the victims because you refuse to accept/understand what the shrine is for. The only one really ignorant in this thread for the last few pages is you.
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On September 25 2012 00:42 brachester wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 00:25 TheKwas wrote:
In additional, it is my understanding that Japan doesn't teach their younger generation about invasion in China nor Nanjing massacre (Correct me if I am wrong). Is that brainwash too?
From Wiki: Despite the efforts of the nationalist textbook reformers, by the late 1990s the most common Japanese schoolbooks contained references to, for instance, the Nanking Massacre, Unit 731, and the comfort women of World War II,[2] all historical issues which have faced challenges from ultranationalists in the past.[3] The most recent of the controversial textbooks, the New History Textbook, published in 2000, was shunned by "nearly all of Japan's school districts".[2]The vast majority of Japanese students learn about Japanese war crimes. Ultraright wing factions often try to push textbooks that don't contain such information, but almost all school districts reject the use of those textbooks. if that is true then I still don't understand what is the big deal people are making here, they have apologized (though they could have done a better job at that), majority of children are educated about their past war crimes, they have compensated to the involved countries, and they enshrined souls that are not accountable for their action in life according to their religion (as explained above) and the souls weren't even enshrined by the government. So basically, there is still a minority, but it does sounds like most people regret about what happened?
Lol, uhmm, no.
No offense Brachester, but your knowledge on this subject matter is so poor, I recommend that you stay out of this thread. If you are going to join the discussion of this thread, at least have the courtesy to read up a little about the history surrounding the issues before giving your opinion.
Since you are from Australia, I just gave you a link to an Australian website that talks about the Japanese education system for WW2. Unfortunately, you obviously didn't read the link and you come back to this thread with zero knowledge of the issue at hand or the history behind it.
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On September 25 2012 01:23 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 00:32 Letmelose wrote:On September 25 2012 00:15 TheKwas wrote:
The british still fly their imperial flag, and their imperial crimes can probably give Japan a run for their money (granted, over a MUCH longer time period). Also, the Japanese flag is a pretty big issue in Japan and many people DO feel guilty about it's past role.
And, the Shrine thing has been explained a millions times already. The war criminals were not enshrined by the government, and according to the shinto religion the temple only enshrines souls--which are not held accountable or responsible for their life actions. Furthermore, the Shrine houses the souls of over 2 million people. I understand that China and Korea are upset, but do you really want the Japanese people to change their spiritual beliefs and culture for the sake of not offending China and Korea? How is that realistic or fair to modern Japanese?
There are lots of reasons to give the Japanese government grief, but those two are probably two of the most trivial issues to bring up. I'm sorry, I must have given the impression that I give a crap about how hurt the Japanese people must be once they are forced to not honor their war criminals. What about how degrading it is to the victims? How is it fair to them? I think it says a lot about you that you care more about the protecting every little detail of a spritual system that continues to hurt and offend the victims of war, when a symple exclusion of those evil fuckers would suffice. To be brutally honest, i sincerly hope that "your kind" is not the majority of korea. Otherwise i might understand japans actions (edit: refusing to reach out to your obviously nonexisting hand) - you act like a dickhead. Its degrading to the victims because you refuse to accept/understand what the shrine is for. The only one really ignorant in this thread for the last few pages is you.
It's the majority. Feel free to empathize those who actively included war criminals in their prayers while ignoring the calls of the surviving war victims for them to stop. If the shrine honors the souls of the deceased, and prays for those no longer with us, how saving a prayor for those who were tortured to death? Is it so important to you that the Japanese get to pray for their war criminals while their victims cry for them to stop?
It's wrong because it hurts them. It's degrading because they are asking for it to stop only to be ignored. Those war criminals were placed in the shrine, yet you care more about the opinions of the priests about the technical difficulties of removing the names of war criminals then the surviving victim who suffer the indignation of having to beg for the honoring of war criminals (oh sorry, just their souls, I'm sure that makes the hurt go away) to stop. If that's truly the way you feel, than I'm done here.
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Please leave then. It's clear you're not interesting in talking about anything on an intellectual, you're just using this thread to vent your emotions.
You're asking the Japanese to completely stop praying for 2 million+ of their war dead because a few names are included, and you're not even take half a second to consider the possibility that the Japanese visiting that shrine are NOT honouring the war criminals. Many Japanese have family members enshrined at that shrine.
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On September 25 2012 01:46 TheKwas wrote:
Please leave then. It's clear you're not interesting in talking about anything on an intellectual, you're just using this thread to vent your emotions.
You're asking the Japanese to completely stop praying for 2 million+ of their war dead because a few names are included, and you're not even take half a second to consider the possibility that the Japanese visiting that shrine are NOT honouring the war criminals. Many Japanese have family members enshrined at that shrine.
So once the names war criminals are removed the whole prayer is rendered useless? Jesus, I never knew including war criminals in your prayers were so vital to ones beliefs. Fuck the surviving victims then. What was I thinking, believing much grievance could be saved by a simple gesture, my apologies for trying to remedy the situation when CLEARLY the important issue was preserving integrity of the shrine that might be ruined by excluding war criminals from the prayers.
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On September 25 2012 01:23 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 00:32 Letmelose wrote:On September 25 2012 00:15 TheKwas wrote:
The british still fly their imperial flag, and their imperial crimes can probably give Japan a run for their money (granted, over a MUCH longer time period). Also, the Japanese flag is a pretty big issue in Japan and many people DO feel guilty about it's past role.
And, the Shrine thing has been explained a millions times already. The war criminals were not enshrined by the government, and according to the shinto religion the temple only enshrines souls--which are not held accountable or responsible for their life actions. Furthermore, the Shrine houses the souls of over 2 million people. I understand that China and Korea are upset, but do you really want the Japanese people to change their spiritual beliefs and culture for the sake of not offending China and Korea? How is that realistic or fair to modern Japanese?
There are lots of reasons to give the Japanese government grief, but those two are probably two of the most trivial issues to bring up. I'm sorry, I must have given the impression that I give a crap about how hurt the Japanese people must be once they are forced to not honor their war criminals. What about how degrading it is to the victims? How is it fair to them? I think it says a lot about you that you care more about the protecting every little detail of a spritual system that continues to hurt and offend the victims of war, when a symple exclusion of those evil fuckers would suffice. To be brutally honest, i sincerly hope that "your kind" is not the majority of korea. Otherwise i might understand japans actions (edit: refusing to reach out to your obviously nonexisting hand) - you act like a dickhead. Its degrading to the victims because you refuse to accept/understand what the shrine is for. The only one really ignorant in this thread for the last few pages is you.
I guarantee you there are many more like him in Korea, China, and other Asian countries that suffered under Japan during and before WW2. And the main reason is because Japan continues to try to rewrite the history of WW2 and hide the atrocities they committed in WW2, in addition to some of the offensive comments made by the Japanese government.
The Japanese Prime Minister only 5 years ago, Shinzo Abe, denied that comfort women were forced to become sexual slaves by the Japanese Army:
Japan's prime minister, Shinzo Abe, provoked fury yesterday by saying that the so-called "comfort women" were not coerced into becoming sexual slaves of the former Japanese Imperial Army.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1544471/Japanese-PM-denies-wartime-comfort-women-were-forced.html
Then you have the former education minister Nariaki Nakayama in 2007 saying the women who were coerced as being comfort women should have been proud of their job:
victimized women in Asia should be proud of being comfort women
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_history_textbook_controversies
BTW, if Nariaki Nakayama is the former education minister and he oversaw the Japanese education system, I wonder what goes into Japanese textbooks about WW2?
The Japanese government, elected by the Japanese people, are beyond sick. And some of you wonder why Asians are still angry at Japan?
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On September 25 2012 01:40 Letmelose wrote:Show nested quote +On September 25 2012 01:23 m4inbrain wrote:On September 25 2012 00:32 Letmelose wrote:On September 25 2012 00:15 TheKwas wrote:
The british still fly their imperial flag, and their imperial crimes can probably give Japan a run for their money (granted, over a MUCH longer time period). Also, the Japanese flag is a pretty big issue in Japan and many people DO feel guilty about it's past role.
And, the Shrine thing has been explained a millions times already. The war criminals were not enshrined by the government, and according to the shinto religion the temple only enshrines souls--which are not held accountable or responsible for their life actions. Furthermore, the Shrine houses the souls of over 2 million people. I understand that China and Korea are upset, but do you really want the Japanese people to change their spiritual beliefs and culture for the sake of not offending China and Korea? How is that realistic or fair to modern Japanese?
There are lots of reasons to give the Japanese government grief, but those two are probably two of the most trivial issues to bring up. I'm sorry, I must have given the impression that I give a crap about how hurt the Japanese people must be once they are forced to not honor their war criminals. What about how degrading it is to the victims? How is it fair to them? I think it says a lot about you that you care more about the protecting every little detail of a spritual system that continues to hurt and offend the victims of war, when a symple exclusion of those evil fuckers would suffice. To be brutally honest, i sincerly hope that "your kind" is not the majority of korea. Otherwise i might understand japans actions (edit: refusing to reach out to your obviously nonexisting hand) - you act like a dickhead. Its degrading to the victims because you refuse to accept/understand what the shrine is for. The only one really ignorant in this thread for the last few pages is you. It's the majority. Feel free to empathize those who actively included war criminals in their prayers while ignoring the calls of the surviving war victims for them to stop. If the shrine honors the souls of the deceased, and prays for those no longer with us, how saving a prayor for those who were tortured to death? Is it so important to you that the Japanese get to pray for their war criminals while their victims cry for them to stop? It's wrong because it hurts them. It's degrading because they are asking for it to stop only to be ignored. Those war criminals were placed in the shrine, yet you care more about the opinions of the priests about the technical difficulties of removing the names of war criminals then the surviving victim who suffer the indignation of having to beg for the honoring of war criminals (oh sorry, just their souls, I'm sure that makes the hurt go away) to stop. If that's truly the way you feel, than I'm done here.
Yeah, you should've realised that "you're done here" even before you started. You don't try to argument or discuss stuff. You're demanding, and venting hatred. That's all. You literally put nothing useful in your words, at all. I won't even answer your bullshit, because in the second sentence that you wrote to answer to my text, you proved that im 100% right. You're an ignorant proletarian.
Edit:
The Japanese government, elected by the Japanese people, are beyond sick. And some of you wonder why Asians are still angry at Japan?
Yeah. I actually do. You don't need to love them, i don't love russian people. That also has something to do with what they did after they won WW2 (feel free to read up on that, sadly its just Nanking that is remembered, because you know, winner writes history). But i don't hate them, or demand satisfaction. You know why? It's history. Which belongs in historybooks. Stuff like that should never be forgotten (and believe me, as a german, i kinda now what i'm talking about there), but also, at some point, get fuckin over it. Most of the people that did shit or received shit are dead anyway, so if japan refuses to apologize for another 10 years - what then? All of these people are dead then. Who are you apoligizing to?
Its pride. Nothing more. On japanese's side, as well as on every fucking other side. Ignorancy is clearly not helping, as that korean guy shows.
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Ha, as if ceasing to honor "the souls of war criminals" would ease the pain of anybody. It's all racist and xenophobic feelings being thrown around, being justified by war regrets 70 years later. Anybody younger than 90 likely has no reason to harbor such strong ill-feelings for an entire country/race/culture. It's stupid to treat the outrage as much more than a tantrum by disgruntled people of a country venting their anger.
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On September 25 2012 02:01 aksfjh wrote:
Ha, as if ceasing to honor "the souls of war criminals" would ease the pain of anybody. It's all racist and xenophobic feelings being thrown around, being justified by war regrets 70 years later. Anybody younger than 90 likely has no reason to harbor such strong ill-feelings for an entire country/race/culture. It's stupid to treat the outrage as much more than a tantrum by disgruntled people of a country venting their anger.
So much this.
Edit: i tried to explain that myself, but wasnt really able to.
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On September 25 2012 02:01 aksfjh wrote:
Ha, as if ceasing to honor "the souls of war criminals" would ease the pain of anybody. It's all racist and xenophobic feelings being thrown around, being justified by war regrets 70 years later. Anybody younger than 90 likely has no reason to harbor such strong ill-feelings for an entire country/race/culture. It's stupid to treat the outrage as much more than a tantrum by disgruntled people of a country venting their anger.
I agree with this.
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I don't think anyone is defending Shinzo Abe in this thread (he was kicked out of office in under a year with a terrible approval rating). Nor is anyone denying that there are some real scumbags in the Japanese government. What people here ARE saying is that those scumbags don't represent typical Japanese opinion and don't justify the outrageous amounts of hate towards modern Japan. They are the Tea Party of Japan: fringe enough to be widely denouced, but popular enough to be embarrassing.
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Tangential but important question as to the reasoning behind these protests:
Do any of you think that these events serve as a means for the CCP to let loose the more jingoistic elements of the PLA via deploying them on the ships that wish to claim the islands while ensuring that they retain control as the new generation of leaders step up to the reins?
Does anyone see the parallels of these people being goaded into taking part in these protests than protests versus corruption or other internal factors, so the CCP does not have to deal with a Tianamen Square Version 2 from a populace that desires a more direct choice in leadership?
If successful, would this (using "foreign agitators" as a focus point for protests and support) give the PLA a free hand in using the same tactics in the Spratlys, Xinjiang and Tibet?
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On September 25 2012 02:01 aksfjh wrote:
Ha, as if ceasing to honor "the souls of war criminals" would ease the pain of anybody. It's all racist and xenophobic feelings being thrown around, being justified by war regrets 70 years later. Anybody younger than 90 likely has no reason to harbor such strong ill-feelings for an entire country/race/culture. It's stupid to treat the outrage as much more than a tantrum by disgruntled people of a country venting their anger.
I want to quote this for the sake of quoting this. Should be put at the top of the thread or something.
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On September 25 2012 01:55 m4inbrain wrote:
Yeah. I actually do. You don't need to love them, i don't love russian people. That also has something to do with what they did after they won WW2 (feel free to read up on that, sadly its just Nanking that is remembered, because you know, winner writes history). But i don't hate them, or demand satisfaction. You know why? It's history. Which belongs in historybooks. Stuff like that should never be forgotten (and believe me, as a german, i kinda now what i'm talking about there), but also, at some point, get fuckin over it. Most of the people that did shit or received shit are dead anyway, so if japan refuses to apologize for another 10 years - what then? All of these people are dead then. Who are you apoligizing to?
Its pride. Nothing more. On japanese's side, as well as on every fucking other side. Ignorancy is clearly not helping, as that korean guy shows.
Ironically, some of the Asian countries aren't even asking for a full blown apology (ie. from the Japanese Emperor), etc. Rather, they simply want the Japanese people to understand what they did in WW2 and the government of Japan to not make insensitive statements about WW2 so we can move on to positive relations in the future.
But when you have the Prime Minister in Japan from 5 years ago denying comfort women were coerced, the former Japanese Education minister saying comfort women should be proud of serving Japan in WW2, and the current Japanese education system hiding the atrocities Japan committed in WW2, it's pretty hard to move on.
Actually, the opposite happens. When Japan acts like it does, they simply incite hatred, anger, and we all know this type of stuff has lead to wars in the past.
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On September 24 2012 13:56 CountChocula wrote:Show nested quote +On September 23 2012 16:03 Azarkon wrote:On September 23 2012 12:45 RavenLoud wrote:“The Imperialist Nation Is China”: What Japanese Internet Users Think About the Diaoyu Protests
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One Channel 2 discussion thread showed a map of a “unified” China that includes Japan, painted red. “Today's China is the world's most aggressive country,” responded one commenter. Another said, “No matter how you look at it, the imperialist nation is China.” Yet another, “ ‘Down with Japan’s imperialism!’—I don't want to hear that from some guys who have anachronistic territorial expansion ambitions.” In a separate discussion, a commenter wrote, “the next World War will be China vs. the world.” There were also calls for Japan to develop a stronger military of its own and not be so reliant on the U.S.-Japan security alliance. “As America’s power has gotten weaker, Japan must protect its own country.”
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Japanese commenters also raised the same question being asked all over the world: Are these protests even about Japan? People suggested the Chinese anger might be more related to domestic grievances. In response to attacks on Japanese and other foreign companies, one post said, “the gap between rich and poor in China is terrible, so the poor hate all the foreign companies because they're making money.”
The Japanese don't see China as a victim. China’s nationalism, as belligerent as it may appear, is rooted in a sense of suffering from a “century of humiliation” that goes back to the First Opium War and the British acquisition of Hong Kong in 1842. What some of the more rabid Chinese don’t appreciate, however, is that the rest of the world—especially Japan—does not see China as the underdog.
The sad thing is, many Chinese truly believe they were wronged by Japan. They cite not only Japan’s World War II-era behavior, but its failure to acknowledge the depth of suffering inflicted on the Chinese. After these protests, this legitimate grievance will be even less likely to be heard by Japan.
SourceThanks to the retards rioters and Ishihara for taking the world a few steps backwards I guess? Japan never cared. Saying that they did before is disingenuous. The rioters had a negative effect on Japan - obviously - but nothing was going to change their mind to begin with. The failure of Japan to properly mend its relations with other East Asian countries after the war is a fester in the wound. One day, all of East Asia is going to pay for it. I don't understand how this guy gets away with spreading misinformation (and possibly China-Japan hatred) like this. He never even provides supporting information. Look at above post for apologies given to comfort women. If you don't take a country's apology at face value, then I don't quite know what to tell ya. For the umpteenth time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_war_apology_statements_issued_by_Japan
There's no need to hard support what is self evident from the way Japan has conducted itself over the past 60-70 years, and what has been accepted by international observers for decades.
Apologies? Words are cheap, and the apologies Japan's leaders have issued, besides being half hearted to begin with, never echoed their actual behavior and conduct. In fact, several of my first posts in this thread was about the general apathy and indifference of both Japanese leaders and their population over what happened in WW 2 beyond 'victor's justice,' and I did provide arguments for both why and how then.
Had you known this issue in better detail - ie beyond Wikipedia googling - you would not need me to tell you this, because it has been written about again and again in scholarship and journalism - for example, Peter Li's Japanese War Crimes: The Search for Justice. To indulge you just this once, I am going to quote directly from the book for you:
Perhaps the most important reason for Japan's historical amnesia, lack of remorse, continued denials is because of the Showa-era continuum, or the transwar continuities in Japan. The most important symbol of this continuity is the reign of Emperor Hirohito after the war. He was exonerated from any responsibility for war crimes through a secret arrangement with General MacArthur, who engineered the surrender of Japan and the subsequent U.S> occupation. Emperor Hirohito, therefore, remained in power until his death in 1989. Along with the emperor, a large number of people in politics, the economic-industrial complex, military doctors, and scientists soon became active again in the public sector soon after the occupation was over. Several who were accused of Class A War Criminals rose to high positions in Japanese politics. THey received a slap on the wrist and then returned to run the government and industries. It was because of this continuity that Japan would never assume full responsibility for the atrocities committed in Asia, preferreing to regard them as lies, fabrications, or just a part of war and downplaying their significance.
Pg. 228.
It is sad and pathetic, however, that you choose to hound me over my statements when others have said the exact same thing and with less support. A grudge from past confrontations in which you have persistently ended up on the losing side? You tell me, but I have the feeling that you never do your own homework except when forced to by other people who have spent a hundred times the effort you have on a subject before forming an opinion. Your repeated use of Wikipedia - one of the worst sources when it comes to controversial issues - is a great example of that.
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Ironically, some of the Asian countries aren't even asking for a full blown apology (ie. from the Japanese Emperor), etc. Rather, they simply want the Japanese people to understand what they did in WW2 and the government of Japan to not make insensitive statements about WW2 so we can move on to positive relations in the future.
You want to see what really is ironic?
Read your statement again. And then read that garbage from Letmelose. Isn't it ironic that everyone demands that japan understands, yet the shrine still is an issue to you? Don't drink wine if you pray water. And that garbage about a politician, well.. Guess we should've started a war with the US then some time ago, as Mr "I-lie-alot" Rumsfeld called us "the old europe" because we didn't agree on a war.
You feel insulted when a politician talks crap? Come on. Its like aksfjh wrote. You're used to that "situation". Japan could never do something to chill you people (which it actually doesn't even concern first hand, as i said: you're just used to hate japan). Im not saying that japan is right, they are not. But you're equally wrong.
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EPT
