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On September 06 2012 00:08 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 23:51 D10 wrote:
Its only a "conspiracy" because of how much people want to believe the crap they have been told
"Conspiracy" is maybe the wrong word. Sorry for that. But do you disagree, that pharma and agricultural companies try to influence government policy concerning legalization? Also it's not some "crap i've been told". It's the logical consequence of the lobbyism system in the modern world. If you think they don't play a role, you're naive. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/03/monsanto-is-a-lobbying-powerhouse/#.UEdpwaPoHDEedit: I don't know man, we basically have 100% the same opinion on this one, but you're talking of "crap i've been told".
I do agree, the reason weed has been treated the way it has, with asinine research and misinformation is because of the lobby of farmaceutical companies, im sure the producers of things that compete with weed would get involved, but the farmaceuticals are too big and too powerfull that they can lobby it alone
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On September 06 2012 00:18 D10 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 00:08 r00ty wrote:On September 05 2012 23:51 D10 wrote:
Its only a "conspiracy" because of how much people want to believe the crap they have been told
"Conspiracy" is maybe the wrong word. Sorry for that. But do you disagree, that pharma and agricultural companies try to influence government policy concerning legalization? Also it's not some "crap i've been told". It's the logical consequence of the lobbyism system in the modern world. If you think they don't play a role, you're naive. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/03/monsanto-is-a-lobbying-powerhouse/#.UEdpwaPoHDEedit: I don't know man, we basically have 100% the same opinion on this one, but you're talking of "crap i've been told". I do agree, the reason weed has been treated the way it has, with asinine research and misinformation is because of the lobby of farmaceutical companies, im sure the producers of things that compete with weed would get involved, but the farmaceuticals are too big and too powerfull that they can lobby it alone
they can lobby alone sure but they arent.
tobacco industry also lobbies against legalization because they think it would eat their market share.
big oil also since it can be used as a bio fuel,
the private prisons also lobby against legalization. if they legalize it prisons won't be overflowing anymore -> less profit.
the christians because some old book said it wasn't 'right'.
The list is almost endless.
Until they legalize it, i cannot recognize a government as legitimate. To me if weed is illegal where you are, then your government is nothing more than corrupt corporate puppets (or worse USA's lapdog) acting for their own benefits instead of the ppl they serve. I'm dead serious too.
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On September 06 2012 00:29 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 00:18 D10 wrote:On September 06 2012 00:08 r00ty wrote:On September 05 2012 23:51 D10 wrote:
Its only a "conspiracy" because of how much people want to believe the crap they have been told
"Conspiracy" is maybe the wrong word. Sorry for that. But do you disagree, that pharma and agricultural companies try to influence government policy concerning legalization? Also it's not some "crap i've been told". It's the logical consequence of the lobbyism system in the modern world. If you think they don't play a role, you're naive. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/03/monsanto-is-a-lobbying-powerhouse/#.UEdpwaPoHDEedit: I don't know man, we basically have 100% the same opinion on this one, but you're talking of "crap i've been told". I do agree, the reason weed has been treated the way it has, with asinine research and misinformation is because of the lobby of farmaceutical companies, im sure the producers of things that compete with weed would get involved, but the farmaceuticals are too big and too powerfull that they can lobby it alone they can lobby alone sure but they arent. tobacco industry also lobbies against legalization because they think it would eat their market share. big oil also since it can be used as a bio fuel, the private prisons also lobby against legalization. if they legalize it prisons won't be overflowing anymore -> less profit. the christians because some old book said it wasn't 'right'. The list is almost endless. Until they legalize it, i cannot recognize a government as legitimate. To me if weed is illegal where you are, then your government is nothing more than corrupt corporate puppets (or worse USA's lapdog) acting for their own benefits instead of the ppl they serve. I'm dead serious too.
I agree. There are various other reasons why I can't take them seriously too. ie. Doing things to win more votes instead of doing things for the people. This whole system is a joke and no I can't come up with a solution but anyone who thinks it's fine is in need of a reality check
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btw r00ty i hadnt really directed my original comment to you, it was more of a rant
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Elegance, im a bit off topic here but there are a lot of other systems that don't see the light of day in the public. If you are interested, i would recommand you check out The Venus Project. Think what you will about it, but it offers a sustainable living for all people on this planet, aswell as sustaining the nature itself, which our current economic system cannot afford, sadly. However, this system can never become reality, until our monetary banking system fails, which i think it will in time.
Here is the direct link to their website; http://www.thevenusproject.com/
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On September 06 2012 00:44 D10 wrote:
btw r00ty i hadnt really directed my original comment to you, it was more of a rant
And i got it wrong a bit. Should always read the whole post before answering, my bad. Sorry for that! We're on the same side!
Also thank you for the information in your post. I'm always looking for more facts and good arguments concerning this topic to be fit in future discussions!
I'm also proud of the TL community. The pro-legalisation debate has made some good progress in the last years. Now we just need Bill Gates or Sergey Brin to lobby for us. 
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A country ought to either choose freedom or choose supression. If a population knew that their government's policy was supression and rigid conformity, then they wouldn't have any issue with the illegality of pot. But since we're supposed to be a liberal society and we have legal alcohol and all sorts of other liberties, it seems ridiculous to many that pot remains outlawed. But this is how society develops. It's slow and it's not always rational. The ideal arrangement would be to have places you could live where everything is outlawed (like Orem, UT) and places where it's a free-for-all. That way, people could choose the sort of society they wanted to live around, instead of having to put up with this muddled compromise that we have now.
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On September 05 2012 12:39 r00ty wrote:
That leads to another question. THC free hemp is around for ages. It's still forbidden in the whole western world (correct me if i'm wrong, i just know of experiments in a couple of countries, France e.g.).
It may not be the ultimate solution to many of our ecological problems, but it definately could play a big role. Why isn't it? I'm not a huge fan of conspiracy theories and going that way will not help the cause, but i challenge everybody to present me a single reason why THC free hemp is illegal. That's insane.
except you are plain wrong. I haven't bothered reading in the english wikipedia but the german one clearly states that Hemp with less than 3 % parts of THC is allowed, altough subject to authorization within the EU. Almost all Many countries but the US have allowed the breeding of the plant.
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I just came here to say that I've got nothing to do in this conversation. It is already "legal" in our country :D
Although I agree totally on that it should be legalized for all you guys.
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On September 06 2012 00:59 Hryul wrote:Show nested quote +On September 05 2012 12:39 r00ty wrote:
That leads to another question. THC free hemp is around for ages. It's still forbidden in the whole western world (correct me if i'm wrong, i just know of experiments in a couple of countries, France e.g.).
It may not be the ultimate solution to many of our ecological problems, but it definately could play a big role. Why isn't it? I'm not a huge fan of conspiracy theories and going that way will not help the cause, but i challenge everybody to present me a single reason why THC free hemp is illegal. That's insane. except you are plain wrong. I haven't bothered reading in the english wikipedia but the german one clearly states that Hemp with less than 3 % parts of THC is allowed, altough subject to authorization within the EU. Almost all Many countries but the US have allowed the breeding of the plant.
Thanks for the correction. It's nice to be wrong sometimes. My source was an old arte-documentary about test crops in France and Germany and back then it didn't look so good.
I just wanted to check about the authorization procedure in Germany but the information disappeared from the webpage of the responsible government agency. + Show Spoiler +
Haven't found anything concerning EU law yet. The only thing which keeps popping up is, that the statutory requirements are very strict. Might do some research later. If anyone has information, please let me know. Thanks.
edit: Actually it's just a lot of paperwork. Nothing too serious as far as i can see after after some minutes of research with no clue about agricultural law. Nice.
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yes, of course.
unfortunately the majority in norway doesn't care enough to even bother giving it thought, which in turn leads to most people remaining uneducated about the subject.
i don't see it changing anytime soon.
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i dont really care wheather or not it gets legalized, its easy enough to get here anyway. but if legalizing it means im gunna have to be smelling it outside, or they can smoke in public, im against that
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honestly sure it should be legalized but really... its already legalized for medical purposes here in california which is all i really care about. Used for non medical purposes its just like any other drug.
also lol @ a government is illegitimate if it doesnt recognize weed as legal.. wtf? there are bigger things in life to care about than your preferred drug of choice my friend.
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On September 06 2012 07:33 Vixeness87 wrote:
there are bigger things in life to care about than your preferred drug of choice my friend.
that's not for you to decide, except for yourself.
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On September 06 2012 07:14 Kojak21 wrote:
i dont really care wheather or not it gets legalized, its easy enough to get here anyway. but if legalizing it means im gunna have to be smelling it outside, or they can smoke in public, im against that
Smoking in public should be forbidden and fined. Not persecuted like crazy, but it should be made clear, that it's not welcome. Also no advertising and of course heavy fines for supplying a minor.
There should be a small fixed amout of the taxation, which has to be used for drug-education purposes in schools etc. That's about it.
Honestly, i wouldn't even allow coffee shops Netherlands style. Of course i visit them when i'm over there, but I'd be perfectly fine going to a pharmacy to buy some weed from time to time. Pharmacies are unsexy to minors, if you know what i mean.
Best thing would be to allow to grow a reasonable amount at home.
Germany feels so far away from ever legalizing it though.  And decriminalisation of small amounts, like it's done it a lot of countries IS NOT ENOUGH. You still have to go to a dealer...
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On September 06 2012 00:29 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 00:18 D10 wrote:On September 06 2012 00:08 r00ty wrote:On September 05 2012 23:51 D10 wrote:
Its only a "conspiracy" because of how much people want to believe the crap they have been told
"Conspiracy" is maybe the wrong word. Sorry for that. But do you disagree, that pharma and agricultural companies try to influence government policy concerning legalization? Also it's not some "crap i've been told". It's the logical consequence of the lobbyism system in the modern world. If you think they don't play a role, you're naive. http://www.foodsafetynews.com/2012/03/monsanto-is-a-lobbying-powerhouse/#.UEdpwaPoHDEedit: I don't know man, we basically have 100% the same opinion on this one, but you're talking of "crap i've been told". I do agree, the reason weed has been treated the way it has, with asinine research and misinformation is because of the lobby of farmaceutical companies, im sure the producers of things that compete with weed would get involved, but the farmaceuticals are too big and too powerfull that they can lobby it alone they can lobby alone sure but they arent. tobacco industry also lobbies against legalization because they think it would eat their market share. big oil also since it can be used as a bio fuel, the private prisons also lobby against legalization. if they legalize it prisons won't be overflowing anymore -> less profit. the christians because some old book said it wasn't 'right'. The list is almost endless. Until they legalize it, i cannot recognize a government as legitimate. To me if weed is illegal where you are, then your government is nothing more than corrupt corporate puppets (or worse USA's lapdog) acting for their own benefits instead of the ppl they serve. I'm dead serious too.
Tobacco companies could pick up a new hot product that would revitalize their stagnating and declining market.
Bio fuel is notorious for how much biomass you need to convert into a gallon of fuel. And even if some random university claims that hemp has as much power as the sun (They'll need some more funding though to tell you for sure), oil companies would be the first to sell it (And they'd have the most capital to do so as well). And if they really wanted to stop it, collectively as an entire industry, then you just don't sell it at the pump - the pumps they own - they don't need to hire lobbyists.
I don't know about private prisons. You can go about believing that.
There is no mention of cannabis in the bible. You really don't know what you're talking about.
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On September 06 2012 08:09 r00ty wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:14 Kojak21 wrote:
i dont really care wheather or not it gets legalized, its easy enough to get here anyway. but if legalizing it means im gunna have to be smelling it outside, or they can smoke in public, im against that Smoking in public should be forbidden and fined. Not persecuted like crazy, but it should be made clear, that it's not welcome. Also no advertising and of course heavy fines for supplying a minor. There should be a small fixed amout of the taxation, which has to be used for drug-education purposes in schools etc. That's about it. Honestly, i wouldn't even allow coffee shops Netherlands style. Of course i visit them when i'm over there, but I'd be perfectly fine going to a pharmacy to buy some weed from time to time. Pharmacies are unsexy to minors, if you know what i mean. Best thing would be to allow to grow a reasonable amount at home. Germany feels so far away from ever legalizing it though. And decriminalisation of small amounts, like it's done it a lot of countries IS NOT ENOUGH. You still have to go to a dealer...
Foremost, elaborate on the Dutch Coffee Shop system plox.
Secondly, I think the most equal system for legalizing the use of Mary Jane is to make it as accessible as possible to the general public as long as they have a severe medical conditions in which it encourages the intake of THC. But by then, they would already make THC pills out of the plant. This allows everyone to use it in outer environment without the surrounding peers to notice and stay anonymous.
So now we solved two problem at our hand, the ability to get high without the fear of being prosecuted and going incognito with it. Truthfully, many stoners would rather prefer a healthy alternative than just smoke it. I'm sure that many people would support this method.
But all of the above statements are based on the notion that THC is scientifically proven at close proximity that it can and will cure/hinder diseases from taking place. In that case, I don't ever think that the government would allow a private conducted labs result to be presented in their court. This hints that we need to have a government research facility to prove these hypothesis. And because of their biases toward the substances, the chances are slim to none.
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On September 06 2012 07:34 nunez wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:33 Vixeness87 wrote:
there are bigger things in life to care about than your preferred drug of choice my friend. that's not for you to decide, except for yourself.
hahaha thats a good joke. If you really think that you might want to go look at the real world, there really are more important things to care about than weed. You my friend lack perspective.
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On September 06 2012 08:34 Vixeness87 wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 07:34 nunez wrote:On September 06 2012 07:33 Vixeness87 wrote:
there are bigger things in life to care about than your preferred drug of choice my friend. that's not for you to decide, except for yourself. hahaha thats a good joke. If you really think that you might want to go look at the real world, there really are more important things to care about than weed. You my friend lack perspective.
i think you misconstrued my post.
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On September 06 2012 08:33 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On September 06 2012 08:09 r00ty wrote:On September 06 2012 07:14 Kojak21 wrote:
i dont really care wheather or not it gets legalized, its easy enough to get here anyway. but if legalizing it means im gunna have to be smelling it outside, or they can smoke in public, im against that Smoking in public should be forbidden and fined. Not persecuted like crazy, but it should be made clear, that it's not welcome. Also no advertising and of course heavy fines for supplying a minor. There should be a small fixed amout of the taxation, which has to be used for drug-education purposes in schools etc. That's about it. Honestly, i wouldn't even allow coffee shops Netherlands style. Of course i visit them when i'm over there, but I'd be perfectly fine going to a pharmacy to buy some weed from time to time. Pharmacies are unsexy to minors, if you know what i mean. Best thing would be to allow to grow a reasonable amount at home. Germany feels so far away from ever legalizing it though. And decriminalisation of small amounts, like it's done it a lot of countries IS NOT ENOUGH. You still have to go to a dealer... Foremost, elaborate on the Dutch Coffee Shop system plox. Secondly, I think the most equal system for legalizing the use of Mary Jane is to make it as accessible as possible to the general public as long as they have a severe medical conditions in which it encourages the intake of THC. But by then, they would already make THC pills out of the plant. This allows everyone to use it in outer environment without the surrounding peers to notice and stay anonymous. So now we solved two problem at our hand, the ability to get high without the fear of being prosecuted and going incognito with it. Truthfully, many stoners would rather prefer a healthy alternative than just smoke it. I'm sure that many people would support this method. But all of the above statements are based on the notion that THC is scientifically proven at close proximity that it can and will cure/hinder diseases from taking place. In that case, I don't ever think that the government would allow a private conducted labs result to be presented in their court. This hints that we need to have a government research facility to prove these hypothesis. And because of their biases toward the substances, the chances are slim to none.
Basically there's not much wrong with the system over there, but i'd prefer it being treated as a generally available medicine. The coffee shop to me personally still radiates that forbidden fruit aura, which makes weed more appealing to minors looking for a kick imho. That's what i meant by pharmacies being unsexy. Well, but that's just my perception as someone from a country where it's still criminalised.
To the pill stuff: I prefer smoking it, but It's not just medicine to me, but also the best form of relaxation, leading us back to the alcohol/other legal drugs argumentaion, which is legit imho. There's nothing wrong with being a productive member of society who is peacefully toking at home.
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EPT
