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stevarius
United States1394 Posts
On August 10 2012 00:05 ampson wrote: If companies are shoving DRM down your throat and putting out a fucked up product don't buy it. If you pirate it, there is moral wrong. The fun part about morals is that they're subjective and not objective and that we're always going to agree to disagree on the morality argument in terms of IP. | ||
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Netless
Canada6 Posts
On August 08 2012 07:10 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am confused why people still pirate so much. Music is cheap/free through itunes/spotify/pandora/other sources Most movies and TV shows are cheap/free from netflix/hulu (admittedly, I do pirate some TV shows, like top gear) Games are sometimes cheap on steam/amazon/origin Why not just pay or get it from free legitimate sources? spotify/pandora blocks Canadian IPs Hulu blocks Canada IPs I r confuzzled | ||
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amazingxkcd
GRAND OLD AMERICA16375 Posts
On August 08 2012 07:10 TheRabidDeer wrote: I am confused why people still pirate so much. Music is cheap/free through itunes/spotify/pandora/other sources Most movies and TV shows are cheap/free from netflix/hulu (admittedly, I do pirate some TV shows, like top gear) Games are sometimes cheap on steam/amazon/origin Why not just pay or get it from free legitimate sources? DRM | ||
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Netless
Canada6 Posts
On August 08 2012 20:06 yeint wrote: There is no problem, because you can still make profits, and the number of people who would buy things if they couldn't get them for free is complete conjecture. I for one would simply not watch most things. I pirated Firefly because I heard it was good. I now own the box set, I went to see Serenity in the theater, and own that DVD as well. Without pirating, they would have $0. Now they have something over $100. This. Right. Here. there's so many shows that, without pirating, I would of never watched. | ||
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darksub
Argentina302 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On August 10 2012 00:01 stevarius wrote: The real moral wrongdoing is the shitty idea that the person only owns the "license" to the software that can only be used as the company tells you to. Every time some company decides they want to shove DRM or some other fucked up feature down the consumers throats to force their paying users to operate and access software in only the manner the company approves of, another pirate is born. There is nothing moral about pissing off your consumers with this kind of shit. Even worse is the assholes who actually believe the above quoted statement and this whole moral high road bullshit that is sympathetic with companies putting out fucked up products. Trying to regulate sharing of content over the internet is so fucking impractical that it's stupid. There's nothing immoral about setting terms and conditions. They aren't forcing you to do shit. They're saying "here's a service, you can use it for X, and it costs $60 to use it indefinitely." If you don't like the terms, don't buy it. It's that simple. But thanks for calling me an asshole because I like the idea of a business being able to control their product. Until the product becomes a necessity, it will just be another form of personal entertainment. The amount of people that bitch about DRM is mindblowing. It typically is a minor inconvenience. If DRM is the true cause of the reason of pirates, there should be no reason you don't buy the product from the producer and then torrent it yourself in the meantime. | ||
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Roflhaxx
Korea (South)1244 Posts
On August 10 2012 04:09 FabledIntegral wrote: There's nothing immoral about setting terms and conditions. They aren't forcing you to do shit. They're saying "here's a service, you can use it for X, and it costs $60 to use it indefinitely." If you don't like the terms, don't buy it. It's that simple. But thanks for calling me an asshole because I like the idea of a business being able to control their product. Until the product becomes a necessity, it will just be another form of personal entertainment. The amount of people that bitch about DRM is mindblowing. It typically is a minor inconvenience. If DRM is the true cause of the reason of pirates, there should be no reason you don't buy the product from the producer and then torrent it yourself in the meantime. A lot of DRM is worse than you think, my bioshock cd suddenly refused to install itself on my computer because I had already installed it 3 times before or something. (Had formatted my computer a lot) If I had downloaded the game from the internet I would not have this problem. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On August 10 2012 04:16 Roflhaxx wrote: A lot of DRM is worse than you think, my bioshock cd suddenly refused to install itself on my computer because I had already installed it 3 times before or something. (Had formatted my computer a lot) If I had downloaded the game from the internet I would not have this problem. Yeah, and that's not something that will affect the majority of users. And if you already bought the game, the piracy issue is much less relevant anyways. What I'm saying is if DRM is the primary reason for pirates, then there is no excuse not to buy the game from the developer/producer and just pirate it yourself. I typically find it much easier to go through the legitimate process than find a legitimate torrent, wait for the download times, move a few folders around, copy the crack, and then run it, not to mention the patching process can be a major hassle, and to top it off, you're less likely to get up to date results as someone else has to do the patches as well. And torrented games on average have tended to be slightly buggier than not from personal experience. | ||
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starfries
Canada3508 Posts
If the product is horribly overpriced, then you send a message with your wallet by not buying the product. It doesn't make it okay to pirate it. If their business model sucks and they would make more money by releasing it freely, it's still their call. It doesn't make it okay to pirate it. | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
On August 10 2012 04:27 starfries wrote: If the DRM is horribly limiting, then you send a message with your wallet by not buying the product. It doesn't make it okay to pirate it. If the product is horribly overpriced, then you send a message with your wallet by not buying the product. It doesn't make it okay to pirate it. If their business model sucks and they would make more money by releasing it freely, it's still their call. It doesn't make it okay to pirate it. This is basically what I've been trying to say. Simply because you don't like their business model doesn't entitle you to copy their product. Only exception I have is that I think if DRM is pissing you off that much, buy the product full price and don't use it and just torrent it instead. Honestly, people say that pirating has helped the industry, and I don't contest that, at the moment. But realize only around ~20% of the U.S. population torrents (where a great portion of entertainment media is produced). Why is it so low? Because of the fear of repercussions by the government and the stories of $100,000+ lawsuits against those who are convicted of copyright infringement. The vast majority of the population isn't tech savvy, let alone familiar with the process to torrent something. At best they can download some songs using a program like Limewire/Frostwire. The older generation is scared shitless that their kids will torrent and often forbid them to do so. So what happens if we legalize torrenting? That fear goes away. Why would I ever pay for something again, ever, if there was no reason to? Charity? Sure, maybe to the absolute best of the best, and still then, there's nothing to say I'd pay the full price they were asking. I would torrent absolutely everything if it was legalized and pay nothing - because from a legal standpoint, I wasn't doing anything wrong. And you can bet a large, large portion of the people would do as I, and massively torrent/copy if it becomes legal. Producers will become reliant upon charity contributions for their product, and to me, that's an absolute joke. | ||
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Kevan
Sweden2303 Posts
I haven't really used Demonoid so I won't miss it. | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
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Fallians
Canada242 Posts
On August 09 2012 05:14 Zahir wrote: Or he can be a worthless douche and pirate anything and everything and make it a point to never support companies or artists financially in any way. Not everyone can afford to support the companies they love........... I fall into that ''worthless douche '' category because neither me or my family have enough money to buy all the music we listen to or the movies we watch or the games I play. The last game I bought was starcraft and the only reason I did that was because of online. I pirate everything and anything, 8gb's of music all pirated simply because I can't afford to buy it. Your statement is ignorant and completely dependent on the individual. | ||
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bgx
Poland6595 Posts
Not an argument for or against, just against extreme actions from both sides, closing neutral sites that work like hubs (merely) is not going to help much. In case of piracy as a whole. Its a side effect of a medium, but i would preffer that they would combat it by market. You may say how do you combat something that is free. Many people still buy original products, steam was a great idea and a step forward toward seemingly better solution. . | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
On August 10 2012 04:41 Kevan wrote: I am very much for piracy. It is not stealing and it will never go away no matter how hard you try. If you offer a product that is worth purchasing instead of pirating then most people will purchase it. That is the best way to "fight" piracy in my opinion, to give the buyer more than the pirate. No - most people will not purchase it. Or pay ridiculous low amounts of money for it if it's "pay how much you want". On August 10 2012 04:47 Fallians wrote: Not everyone can afford to support the companies they love........... I fall into that ''worthless douche '' category because neither me or my family have enough money to buy all the music we listen to or the movies we watch or the games I play. The last game I bought was starcraft and the only reason I did that was because of online. I pirate everything and anything, 8gb's of music all pirated simply because I can't afford to buy it. Your statement is ignorant and completely dependent on the individual. Stop smoking weed. Now you can buy at least some games / movies. | ||
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solidbebe
Netherlands4921 Posts
On August 10 2012 05:33 Zocat wrote: No - most people will not purchase it. Or pay ridiculous low amounts of money for it if it's "pay how much you want". Stop smoking weed. Now you can buy at least some games / movies. Most people will not purchase it? You realize the majority of people are still just legit buyers and not pirates. | ||
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Zocat
Germany2229 Posts
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Kevan
Sweden2303 Posts
Yes they will. | ||
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HunterX11
United States1048 Posts
On August 09 2012 03:59 FabledIntegral wrote: People's personal examples of how pirating increased a company's revenue is irrelevant for me. For me the issue is that regardless of whether they profited or not, a company should be able to price their own product, at whatever price they want. This holds even if the product is considered to be priced "exploitively," which I find ridiculous. Media entertainment is not a necessity, and thus there should be no limit on what a company can charge for a service/product it produces. If you can't afford the product, that sucks, you don't get access to it. If you don't like the pricing, then don't buy it. But you aren't entitled by any means to having it anyways because you want the company's product, but don't like the company's pricing. What I've seen in this thread is basically that producers should be at the mercy of donations from consumers if consumers don't like the pricing. "Oh, I ended up liking this one piece of work a lot, so I decided to buy it." It's up to the mercy of the consumer, who already has the product, to make a donation to the company for their work. You are conflating companies and producers here, i.e. those who create media, and those who distribute it. Most of the media that is consumed, whether paid or pirated, is distributed by companies that are not owned by the producers of said media. There are a few instances where people really can try to remunerate the artists themselves, for example by pirating music but then attending concerts of the musicians and buying merchandise from them. | ||
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Zahir
United States947 Posts
On August 09 2012 23:32 FabledIntegral wrote: My god, you don't need to go over the basics of sharing. I understand what it is. The point is that legally regulating sharing is not ridiculous. And sharing isn't even the correct term. It's copying in this situation. Telling your friend what happened in the book is not illegal. Copying the book in its entirety and then giving a copy to your friend is what's illegal. And yes, companies do have the legal right to sell you content and tell you what to do with it, that's why you don't own software, you own an individual license to utilize to software. To claim you haven't done any moral wrongdoing is simply deluding yourself. I am forced to agree here. Much as I love what pirating has done to enlighten and empower my generation, it is by no means some god given right. At its best, pirating enriches everyone by stimulating demand, widening audiences and developing markets. At its worst, it forces a software company to price what ought to be a 60 dollar program at 600 bucks because developers and schools are the only ones paying for it. | ||
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