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On August 08 2012 20:23 CaptainCrush wrote:
I'm honestly shocked at the number of people who think that it's acceptable to pirate media for any reason. I'm especially shocked that it's so prevalent in a community that's supposedly as upstanding as TeamLiquid. YOU guys need the reality check, not the internet laws...
Every streamer who plays music without a broadcast license is pirating.
I don't think pirating is immoral, and I don't think pirating should be illegal. I'm an adult (quite likely older than you). I've worked producing intellectual property for most of my adult life.
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On August 08 2012 20:33 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 20:23 CaptainCrush wrote:
I'm honestly shocked at the number of people who think that it's acceptable to pirate media for any reason. I'm especially shocked that it's so prevalent in a community that's supposedly as upstanding as TeamLiquid. YOU guys need the reality check, not the internet laws... Every streamer who plays music without a broadcast license is pirating. I don't think pirating is immoral, and I don't think pirating should be illegal. I'm an adult (quite likely older than you). I've worked producing intellectual property for most of my adult life.
Im not talking about streaming anything, I talking about all you saps who think that you have the right to torrent and DL whatever you want without paying for it. That is not legal and is immoral. And what does age have to do with anything? I'm an adult as well, 27 if you want specifics (again, why does this matter?). If anything your age should help you see that you are stealing from others who have worked hard in their adult life to make the media that you are acquiring for free.
Edit: Demonoid was not a streaming site so that point has little basis in this argument either. I realize that this is the internet and that I'm likely not going to change your mind, but you may want to rethink your position on the matter.
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It's actually quite shocking and sad that at this day and age we are sitting here and still pondering over the morality of pirating.
You should ask yourself what will happen in not so distant future when AM will become domestic,where not only will you be able to replicate a digital medium,but physical objects as well,for peanuts.
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On August 08 2012 20:46 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 20:33 yeint wrote:On August 08 2012 20:23 CaptainCrush wrote:
I'm honestly shocked at the number of people who think that it's acceptable to pirate media for any reason. I'm especially shocked that it's so prevalent in a community that's supposedly as upstanding as TeamLiquid. YOU guys need the reality check, not the internet laws... Every streamer who plays music without a broadcast license is pirating. I don't think pirating is immoral, and I don't think pirating should be illegal. I'm an adult (quite likely older than you). I've worked producing intellectual property for most of my adult life. Im not talking about streaming anything, I talking about all you saps who think that you have the right to torrent and DL whatever you want without paying for it. That is not legal and is immoral. And what does age have to do with anything? I'm an adult as well, 27 if you want specifics (again, why does this matter?). If anything your age should help you see that you are stealing from others who have worked hard in their adult life to make the media that you are acquiring for free. Edit: Demonoid was not a streaming site so that point has little basis in this argument either. I realize that this is the internet and that I'm likely not going to change your mind, but you may want to rethink your position on the matter.
Torrent can lead to purchases btw.
If I never downloaded GRRMs A Song of Ice and Fire series, I would have never heard of it. After downloading it, I bought the box set for myself and my ex, and a couple family members. Then I went on to buy the new aDwD in hardback for myself and family as well. That's over $300 worth of sales that wouldn't have existed if I never used Torrent.
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On August 08 2012 20:31 yeint wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 20:14 Jojo131 wrote:On August 08 2012 20:08 yeint wrote:On August 08 2012 19:15 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 08 2012 19:14 askTeivospy wrote:
not being able to find hardcopy of something is probably the only reasonable excuse to pirate
that try before you buy excuse just makes me lol though makes me wonder if people steal food to try it before they buy it the next time they're out shopping, too. edit: typo. What a fucking terrible analogy. Stealing food and eating it destroys the food. How about trying pants on before you buy them? How about borrowing a shirt from a friend and wearing it for a day and deciding you like how it looks? Still bad, you'll never actually own the pants/shirt until you buy it. Someone will want it back and you'll have to give it to them, whereas this album I pirated? Dont have to pay a cent, dont have to give it back, etc. I pirate stuff all the time and even I think some of these excuses are so lol that it makes me sad. They only want it back because they don't have a shirt while you're keeping it. The relevant part of the analogy is that nothing is removed from the original owner.
except the money they didnt get from you getting your hands on one of their products without paying. sure nothing is physically removed, but it's theirs, and you didn't pay for it. they put work into making the shit you want. you might as well go to gamestop, pick any game you find, walk out of the store and say "fuck you guys, i can take this, because you dont lose money if i do"
do you seriously think gamestop gives a flying fuck if they lost a dvd with data on it that costs one fifth of a euro? no, they dont. same with online distribution. they care because of the money they dont get from you. dvds are so cheap that children in africa are more likely to get their hands on a box of those than food.
so why dont companies and authors just produce their shit and then make it free? it's a hard industry for a lot of authors unless you're usher's missing half brother or made music in the 80s. same goes for video games, more and more companies has to start out as stupid indie makers because if they want to make a breakthrough with a sick new game, they'll end up in a situation where people will look at the game and think "looks pretty cool, not so sure... meh, i'll torrent it."
no fucking wonder why blizzard, ubisoft or ea no longer makes lan friendly games, they know that the people who buy their games are faggots that wouldnt pay for them if they could avoid it. no wonder companies would rather cater to console players. they dont give a flying fuck about console players because they're consoles. they care because on consoles, people can't just torrent their shit.
let me use a funny example i remember. what do you think happend when "sniper: ghost warrior" came out, people looked at it and thought "wow, i can be a sniper and stuff, pretty cool. nice graphics... oh.. wait a minute. €59? i'll torrent that shit."
who made sniper: ghost warrior? some company named city interactive. guess what they made before that:
![[image loading]](http://www.wiinoob.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/chicken-riot.jpg)
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On August 08 2012 21:28 Tom Cruise wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 20:31 yeint wrote:On August 08 2012 20:14 Jojo131 wrote:On August 08 2012 20:08 yeint wrote:On August 08 2012 19:15 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 08 2012 19:14 askTeivospy wrote:
not being able to find hardcopy of something is probably the only reasonable excuse to pirate
that try before you buy excuse just makes me lol though makes me wonder if people steal food to try it before they buy it the next time they're out shopping, too. edit: typo. What a fucking terrible analogy. Stealing food and eating it destroys the food. How about trying pants on before you buy them? How about borrowing a shirt from a friend and wearing it for a day and deciding you like how it looks? Still bad, you'll never actually own the pants/shirt until you buy it. Someone will want it back and you'll have to give it to them, whereas this album I pirated? Dont have to pay a cent, dont have to give it back, etc. I pirate stuff all the time and even I think some of these excuses are so lol that it makes me sad. They only want it back because they don't have a shirt while you're keeping it. The relevant part of the analogy is that nothing is removed from the original owner. except the money they didnt get from you getting your hands on one of their products without paying. sure nothing is physically removed, but it's theirs, and you didn't pay for it. they put work into making the shit you want. you might as well go to gamestop, pick any game you find, walk out of the store and say "fuck you guys, i can take this, because you dont lose money if i do" do you seriously think gamestop gives a flying fuck if they lost a dvd with data on it that costs one fifth of a euro? no, they dont. same with online distribution. they care because of the money they dont get from you. dvds are so cheap that children in africa are more likely to get their hands on a box of those than food. so why dont companies and authors just produce their shit and then make it free? it's a hard industry for a lot of authors unless you're usher's missing half brother or made music in the 80s. same goes for video games, more and more companies has to start out as stupid indie makers because if they want to make a breakthrough with a sick new game, they'll end up in a situation where people will look at the game and think "looks pretty cool, not so sure... meh, i'll torrent it." no fucking wonder why blizzard, ubisoft or ea no longer makes lan friendly games, they know that the people who buy their games are faggots that wouldnt pay for them if they could avoid it. no wonder companies would rather cater to console players. they dont give a flying fuck about console players because they're consoles. they care because on consoles, people can't just torrent their shit. let me use a funny example i remember. what do you think happend when "sniper: ghost warrior" came out, people looked at it and thought "wow, i can be a sniper and stuff, pretty cool. nice graphics... oh.. wait a minute. €59? i'll torrent that shit." who made sniper: ghost warrior? some company named city interactive. guess what they made before that: + Show Spoiler +
Isn't that last point supportive of the opposite of what youre saying? Sniper ghost warrior wasnt a good game and it was nowhere near worth the 60 euro pricetag, but they released it like that anyway.
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On August 08 2012 20:46 CaptainCrush wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 20:33 yeint wrote:On August 08 2012 20:23 CaptainCrush wrote:
I'm honestly shocked at the number of people who think that it's acceptable to pirate media for any reason. I'm especially shocked that it's so prevalent in a community that's supposedly as upstanding as TeamLiquid. YOU guys need the reality check, not the internet laws... Every streamer who plays music without a broadcast license is pirating. I don't think pirating is immoral, and I don't think pirating should be illegal. I'm an adult (quite likely older than you). I've worked producing intellectual property for most of my adult life. Im not talking about streaming anything, I talking about all you saps who think that you have the right to torrent and DL whatever you want without paying for it. That is not legal and is immoral. And what does age have to do with anything? I'm an adult as well, 27 if you want specifics (again, why does this matter?). If anything your age should help you see that you are stealing from others who have worked hard in their adult life to make the media that you are acquiring for free. Edit: Demonoid was not a streaming site so that point has little basis in this argument either. I realize that this is the internet and that I'm likely not going to change your mind, but you may want to rethink your position on the matter.
Are you dense?
Starcraft players who stream and play music on there are broadcasting intellectual property without permission or paying licensing fees. This is absolutely piracy, with the added factor of directly profiting from their streams.
No one in this community has a problem with that. Yet you're "shocked" that a community so "upstanding" as TeamLiquid doesn't shit a brick at someone doing something legally equivalent, and ethically less harmful?
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On August 08 2012 22:03 solidbebe wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 21:28 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 08 2012 20:31 yeint wrote:On August 08 2012 20:14 Jojo131 wrote:On August 08 2012 20:08 yeint wrote:On August 08 2012 19:15 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 08 2012 19:14 askTeivospy wrote:
not being able to find hardcopy of something is probably the only reasonable excuse to pirate
that try before you buy excuse just makes me lol though makes me wonder if people steal food to try it before they buy it the next time they're out shopping, too. edit: typo. What a fucking terrible analogy. Stealing food and eating it destroys the food. How about trying pants on before you buy them? How about borrowing a shirt from a friend and wearing it for a day and deciding you like how it looks? Still bad, you'll never actually own the pants/shirt until you buy it. Someone will want it back and you'll have to give it to them, whereas this album I pirated? Dont have to pay a cent, dont have to give it back, etc. I pirate stuff all the time and even I think some of these excuses are so lol that it makes me sad. They only want it back because they don't have a shirt while you're keeping it. The relevant part of the analogy is that nothing is removed from the original owner. except the money they didnt get from you getting your hands on one of their products without paying. sure nothing is physically removed, but it's theirs, and you didn't pay for it. they put work into making the shit you want. you might as well go to gamestop, pick any game you find, walk out of the store and say "fuck you guys, i can take this, because you dont lose money if i do" do you seriously think gamestop gives a flying fuck if they lost a dvd with data on it that costs one fifth of a euro? no, they dont. same with online distribution. they care because of the money they dont get from you. dvds are so cheap that children in africa are more likely to get their hands on a box of those than food. so why dont companies and authors just produce their shit and then make it free? it's a hard industry for a lot of authors unless you're usher's missing half brother or made music in the 80s. same goes for video games, more and more companies has to start out as stupid indie makers because if they want to make a breakthrough with a sick new game, they'll end up in a situation where people will look at the game and think "looks pretty cool, not so sure... meh, i'll torrent it." no fucking wonder why blizzard, ubisoft or ea no longer makes lan friendly games, they know that the people who buy their games are faggots that wouldnt pay for them if they could avoid it. no wonder companies would rather cater to console players. they dont give a flying fuck about console players because they're consoles. they care because on consoles, people can't just torrent their shit. let me use a funny example i remember. what do you think happend when "sniper: ghost warrior" came out, people looked at it and thought "wow, i can be a sniper and stuff, pretty cool. nice graphics... oh.. wait a minute. €59? i'll torrent that shit." who made sniper: ghost warrior? some company named city interactive. guess what they made before that: + Show Spoiler + Isn't that last point supportive of the opposite of what youre saying? Sniper ghost warrior wasnt a good game and it was nowhere near worth the 60 euro pricetag, but they released it like that anyway.
i don't know actually, i'm pretty tired. it's a bit of both, and i'm not taking sides, lol. just getting it out there.
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On August 08 2012 21:09 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 20:46 CaptainCrush wrote:On August 08 2012 20:33 yeint wrote:On August 08 2012 20:23 CaptainCrush wrote:
I'm honestly shocked at the number of people who think that it's acceptable to pirate media for any reason. I'm especially shocked that it's so prevalent in a community that's supposedly as upstanding as TeamLiquid. YOU guys need the reality check, not the internet laws... Every streamer who plays music without a broadcast license is pirating. I don't think pirating is immoral, and I don't think pirating should be illegal. I'm an adult (quite likely older than you). I've worked producing intellectual property for most of my adult life. Im not talking about streaming anything, I talking about all you saps who think that you have the right to torrent and DL whatever you want without paying for it. That is not legal and is immoral. And what does age have to do with anything? I'm an adult as well, 27 if you want specifics (again, why does this matter?). If anything your age should help you see that you are stealing from others who have worked hard in their adult life to make the media that you are acquiring for free. Edit: Demonoid was not a streaming site so that point has little basis in this argument either. I realize that this is the internet and that I'm likely not going to change your mind, but you may want to rethink your position on the matter. Torrent can lead to purchases btw. If I never downloaded GRRMs A Song of Ice and Fire series, I would have never heard of it. After downloading it, I bought the box set for myself and my ex, and a couple family members. Then I went on to buy the new aDwD in hardback for myself and family as well. That's over $300 worth of sales that wouldn't have existed if I never used Torrent.
Agreed. I pirated The Witcher because I had no money and had no idea what the game was about or how good it was, then later once I got a job I bought both it and its sequel. And that's after acknowledging all the problems I had with both games. Also flowchart + Show Spoiler +
Anyways, I didn't use Demonoid that much, seemed a bit clunky. But my friends did, so feeling a bit sad for them. But I have a feeling TPB will stick around for a long time, especially since everytime someone tries to fight them they'll put the e-mail on the site so everyone can see 
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That flowchart is pretty good, though the notions of "I dont like the game I would never have bought it anyway" isnt something you can say for sure. What some companies do however when they look at piracy numbers and just count that as lost sales is absolutely ridiculous, and they're only doing that to cast piracy in a bad light.
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Canada873 Posts
On August 08 2012 13:37 TheToaster wrote:
Just another instance of capitalism in effect. Corporations who own the copyrights can basically force government to take action against infringement, no matter how futile the action really is.
Exactly how is a corporation going to FORCE the government to do something? They dont have guns or jails or courts or armies. Are they going to gather a bunch of guys from accounting, arm them, and send em to the DC?
Governments enforce IP, not corporations.
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On August 08 2012 23:15 Equity213 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 13:37 TheToaster wrote:
Just another instance of capitalism in effect. Corporations who own the copyrights can basically force government to take action against infringement, no matter how futile the action really is. Exactly how is a corporation going to FORCE the government to do something? They dont have guns or jails or courts or armies. Are they going to gather a bunch of guys from accounting, arm them, and send em to the DC? Governments enforce IP, not corporations.
Lol so naive,guns and jails are for simple people like you and me.Who do you think pays for the campaign of the politicians?
Billions of dollars are spent every year in the world on lobbying,that's how they do it.
They don't FORCE anyone to do anything,they buy them to do it willingly.
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If I torrent something I wouldn't have bought it in the first place, I have no issue supporting artists and usually purchase something I like even after torrenting it to support it, however I refuse to just blindly buy stuff especially with the shit that is released nowadays, sometimes I take a chance like buying a collectors edition diablo 3, and sometimes I greatly regret this decision.
Fact is, if suddenly I couldn't torrent stuff I wouldn't immediately start buying it, I would just stop having it.
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i never would have started buying CDs if it wasn't for pirating. i know the music industry has gained money from my pirating, i'm sure the same can be said about alot of other people as well.
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On August 08 2012 17:56 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 16:46 StarStrider wrote:On August 08 2012 16:40 logikly wrote:On August 08 2012 16:28 overt wrote:On August 08 2012 16:25 logikly wrote:On August 08 2012 16:20 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 08 2012 15:59 Zerg.Zilla wrote:On August 08 2012 15:51 SmokeMonster wrote:
I am OK as long as The Pirate Bay lives on. Yeah dude but the question is how long?Fucking governments!Everything starts to get fucked up... yeah, who would ever want to pay for something good like music that others put work, time and money into. damn governments. Exactly, and this is why the generation of today is such trash. They demand everything for free and they do not correlate that torrenting is actually stealing. Damn the governments for enforcing anti stealing laws. If you want censorship of internet go to the Middle East or china and find out what censored internet really is. If you are young, then I hope you get a bit more mature as you grow up. If you're older, seriously fuck you buddy. You really didn't add anything to this discussion and called an entire generation of people trash. Love the non sequitur, when you're actually able to argue my point please do. I generalize a generation by a few? Have you ever listened to people talk or read any of the threads about piracy places being shut down. The overwhelming consensus is that is Bullshit when in reality its perfectly legitimate to be done. It's only perfectly legitimate because lobbyists in the pockets of IP holdings and record congloms have paid off government to make it illegal. We live in a Corporatocracy not a Democracy, or are you living in a fantasy world where every man is truly free and every voice is heard? So basically you're angry because the government shut down a service that allowed you to illegally download (read: steal) stuff? Talk about being a hypocrite.
I'm not angry that they shut it down. Because I'll just go to the next one, it can't be stopped. No, I'm angry that they gave themselves that power in the name of justice, but really it's in the name of profits for their corporate masters.
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On August 09 2012 00:30 StarStrider wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2012 17:56 maartendq wrote:On August 08 2012 16:46 StarStrider wrote:On August 08 2012 16:40 logikly wrote:On August 08 2012 16:28 overt wrote:On August 08 2012 16:25 logikly wrote:On August 08 2012 16:20 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 08 2012 15:59 Zerg.Zilla wrote:On August 08 2012 15:51 SmokeMonster wrote:
I am OK as long as The Pirate Bay lives on. Yeah dude but the question is how long?Fucking governments!Everything starts to get fucked up... yeah, who would ever want to pay for something good like music that others put work, time and money into. damn governments. Exactly, and this is why the generation of today is such trash. They demand everything for free and they do not correlate that torrenting is actually stealing. Damn the governments for enforcing anti stealing laws. If you want censorship of internet go to the Middle East or china and find out what censored internet really is. If you are young, then I hope you get a bit more mature as you grow up. If you're older, seriously fuck you buddy. You really didn't add anything to this discussion and called an entire generation of people trash. Love the non sequitur, when you're actually able to argue my point please do. I generalize a generation by a few? Have you ever listened to people talk or read any of the threads about piracy places being shut down. The overwhelming consensus is that is Bullshit when in reality its perfectly legitimate to be done. It's only perfectly legitimate because lobbyists in the pockets of IP holdings and record congloms have paid off government to make it illegal. We live in a Corporatocracy not a Democracy, or are you living in a fantasy world where every man is truly free and every voice is heard? So basically you're angry because the government shut down a service that allowed you to illegally download (read: steal) stuff? Talk about being a hypocrite. I'm not angry that they shut it down. Because I'll just go to the next one, it can't be stopped. No, I'm angry that they gave themselves that power in the name of justice, but really it's in the name of profits for their corporate masters.
Yeah, damn those greedy corporations making content for preventing me from having whatever I want for free!
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 09 2012 00:35 dudeman001 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 09 2012 00:30 StarStrider wrote:On August 08 2012 17:56 maartendq wrote:On August 08 2012 16:46 StarStrider wrote:On August 08 2012 16:40 logikly wrote:On August 08 2012 16:28 overt wrote:On August 08 2012 16:25 logikly wrote:On August 08 2012 16:20 Tom Cruise wrote:On August 08 2012 15:59 Zerg.Zilla wrote:On August 08 2012 15:51 SmokeMonster wrote:
I am OK as long as The Pirate Bay lives on. Yeah dude but the question is how long?Fucking governments!Everything starts to get fucked up... yeah, who would ever want to pay for something good like music that others put work, time and money into. damn governments. Exactly, and this is why the generation of today is such trash. They demand everything for free and they do not correlate that torrenting is actually stealing. Damn the governments for enforcing anti stealing laws. If you want censorship of internet go to the Middle East or china and find out what censored internet really is. If you are young, then I hope you get a bit more mature as you grow up. If you're older, seriously fuck you buddy. You really didn't add anything to this discussion and called an entire generation of people trash. Love the non sequitur, when you're actually able to argue my point please do. I generalize a generation by a few? Have you ever listened to people talk or read any of the threads about piracy places being shut down. The overwhelming consensus is that is Bullshit when in reality its perfectly legitimate to be done. It's only perfectly legitimate because lobbyists in the pockets of IP holdings and record congloms have paid off government to make it illegal. We live in a Corporatocracy not a Democracy, or are you living in a fantasy world where every man is truly free and every voice is heard? So basically you're angry because the government shut down a service that allowed you to illegally download (read: steal) stuff? Talk about being a hypocrite. I'm not angry that they shut it down. Because I'll just go to the next one, it can't be stopped. No, I'm angry that they gave themselves that power in the name of justice, but really it's in the name of profits for their corporate masters. Yeah, damn those greedy corporations making content for preventing me from having whatever I want for free! + Show Spoiler +
Why is my only choice free or unreasonable? As someone pointed out, I only take freely through pirating because it's free. Most of what I pirate I would just not buy otherwise because of exploitively high price points. Therefore they aren't losing my business to begin with. The things that I find that I become a big fan of I end up buying, as do most people who pirate, therefore making the case that free internet sharing is free advertising. And mass advertising is EXPENSIVE. I don't know why they fight it so hard. Time and again bands post record sales of albums that they give away for free. Accessibility to art and media is key, not keeping it inaccessible with high price points then punishing those who share something their friends will love.
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It's not just the corporations loosing money! Think about the artists!
![[image loading]](http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/when-you-pirate-music-you-hurt-the-artist.jpg)
I think torrents helps artists that wouldn't normally get exposure. Most of the people download an album the would never buy and then find a song or two they like. Not much to do but complain. Does anyone know if Demonoid plans on getting back up?
User was warned for this post
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On August 08 2012 07:10 TheRabidDeer wrote:
I am confused why people still pirate so much.
Music is cheap/free through itunes/spotify/pandora/other sources
Most movies and TV shows are cheap/free from netflix/hulu (admittedly, I do pirate some TV shows, like top gear)
Games are sometimes cheap on steam/amazon/origin
Why not just pay or get it from free legitimate sources?
Also, in addition to what's been said, there are products that simply do not exist or are too hard to find. A specific anime with English subtitles, out-of-print CD's, DVD's or books/comics, old computer/console games, Star Wars Christmas Special, that sort of stuff. However much you'd like to pay for it legally, you just can't obtain it.
Of course, it may be the prerogative of the copyright holder to deny people the possibility to obtain their product, but that's a slightly different discussion, because it has nothing to do with monetary gain or loss, but only with the right of the copyright holder to control his property on completely subjective grounds.
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every streamer who is streaming with music is pirating cause you can record those songs. It's actually kinda silly for example on my youtube channel dancing to a song I bought the cd and playing in my boombox and it got turned off for copyright lol You can't stop pirating without hurting good people. It's just one of those things.
The only people hurting from copyrighting is overpricing greedy producers. if you love the artist hit up the concerts that where artist make most money concerts, and payed appereances.
they have done alot of bad things, locks encrypts on music so you can put it on cd and listen in your car that why poirating became a big hit, greed turned away loyal customers. for games they started putting those locks in to stop pirating hurting paying customers that why people pirate games.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/4wFfk.png)
