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Mars Mission: Curiosity - Page 43

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Keep Nation bragging and the political debate out.
Arghmyliver
Profile Blog Joined November 2011
United States1077 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-07 00:19:37
August 07 2012 00:11 GMT
#841
On August 07 2012 06:53 xrapture wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2012 06:05 Candadar wrote:
On August 07 2012 06:03 xrapture wrote:
I guess I'll never understand the importance of these types of things or why everyone gets so excited. To me, it just seems like a waste of 2.5 billion dollars that will accomplish very little (virtually nothing).

Even after I read 2 pages of why the Curiosity rover is important I can't see the value in it.


+ Show Spoiler +
[image loading]


Apparently creating a wonder for the future, and inspiring children for a love of the Sciences, Mathematics, and Engineering while we expand humanity's presence beyond this planet has no value. Nope, all this is just a waste of money. Nothing ever of value comes from these pointless investments of money. I'm sure that's what people said to Einstein when hew as researching the useless General Theory of Relativity, when it turned out to be massively important to, you know, EVERYTHING in the modern world from Satellites that let your internet and phones work to the modern buildings you walk in every day. Yep, scientific progress is fucking stupid. Why would anyone want to reach out to the stars and inspire the youth to do practical things like engineering and math and science instead of sitting around playign video games all day.

You do realize how fucking important it would be for us to leave this planet? Helium-3 on the moon makes Nuclear Fusion possible, and if we find Oil on Mars? Do you fucking realize how big of a deal that is? And to move humanity out of Earth's sphere alone is a huge deal for preserving it. Distasters are a frequent thing on this planet, especially near-life ending ones. The amount of minerals and shit that could come from Mineral Rich Asteroids in mining operations?

+ Show Spoiler +



When we stop dreaming and stop looking to the stars, we stop progressing. This kind of shit inspires people. If it doesn't inspire you, I honestly feel sorry for you.

We spend more than almost the entire world combined on our military program, and less than half a cent to the tax dollar on the space program. And yet, you are SERIOUSLY arguing that the space program is the fucking issue here? We're not even in the top 20 in sciences and math in the world. It shocks me that people are arguing we should cut them even more out of our lives. Imagine if a man set foot in mars in the next 15 years. Just put that into perspective. A man sets foot on another fucking planet for the first time in history. Could you imagine how that would influence the world? Both politically, economically, and philosophically? How much that will influence people to become engineers and scientists?

I'm done editing a promise.


It's funny that you posted that picture. Do you know how "inspiring" the Statue of Liberty and the Eiffel Tower are today? They are nothing more than tourist attractions. And I'd be more than happy to see the Pyramids destroyed. Why preserve "wonders" that are a testament to slavery?

You speak a lot about the importance of inspiring future children to be scientists, mathematics, and engineers. Doesn't that seem like a selfish motive-- hoping impressionable children are manipulated into becoming slaves to the scientific community?

" inspire the youth to do practical things like engineering and math and science" Ah, of all the words I've heard in relation to math, something that isn't required in nearly any of the world's jobs, practical is one I've not heard. And $2.5 billion to look at rocks on Mars is practical to you? I think you need to look up the definition of the word.

Yea, ok we spend too much money on the military, I've heard that argument many times. But, is that seriously your argument? People say the Rover is a waste of money and you point the finger to something else? That is not how you argue and it's immature to be honest, but I'll bite.

Look, technology and society is evolving at an exponentially faster rate than humanity. We are just smart monkies, after all. We have animalistic instincts, carnal desires, and we are all utterly selfish. Look at the most powerful and successful nations in the world's history: The United States, Great Britian, and Rome. Wars sculpted these countries and will always be a part of the world as long as primitive creatures like humans rule it.

If man steps foot on Mars it will be the equivalent of moving a fraction of a nano-meter from the Earth's surface (in relation to the universe). Sorry if I'm not inspired by that.

If man makes the world self sustainable-- yes that will be inspiring. So I guess you can lump me in with all the people that say that we should fix our world's problems before embarking on huge scientific endeavors. Of course I know crime or poverty can never be completely eliminated, but imagine if the entire world was like most of Europe. Can we aim for that? Can we aim for a low birth rate and a very small amount of starving citizens before we spend billions to look at rocks?


No dude. It will be like moving millions of miles through space. The universe is really big - but that doesn't change how long a nanometer is. Using scales like that is one way to approximate a comprehension of the vastness of the universe which is actually quite impossible really - but saying that it's like "moving nanometers compared to the vastness of the universe" is completely misleading and completely an understatement. You include the comparison between "the distance between Earth and Mars" and "the greatest diameter of the universe" but you purposefully exclude what you are comparing "nanometers" to. If its like moving nanometers in a sphere of radius 2 nm thats 4th base, home run, going all the way. The universe is so large there is starlight seen on other planets that will never reach us - even if given billions of years travelling at 300,000,000 km/s. The volume of any object you have ever encountered here on Earth divided by the volume of the universe is a number so small that in math we would say "thats pretty much zero, mang." Like if there was a button that gave me 2 bucks every time I pressed it, but every time I pressed it there was an (apple/the universe)% chance I would die - I would push that shit all day np. Even a (moon/the universe)% chance - yes even (sun/the universe) or (milky way/the universe). I would be a rich motherfucker after a couple days of button pressing (or I'd be dead - but just look at the odds!). You can't really gain anything by comparing distances in the solar system to the vastness of the universe - and aforementioned vasticity is totally irrelevant in this case. I'll get into that in a second.

I'll just ignore that you think the rover's main objective is to transmit visual spectrum images of local aggregate - I think NASA has that pretty well covered on their website - you can go there to look if you want, I'm pretty sure its like "NASA.gov" or something.

One of the main problems we have with Earth sustaining our gigantic population is simply that she isn't supposed to. We have a difficult enough time feeding ourselves in first-world countries - let alone providing support and aid to poorer regions. This is huge problem that needs to be solved - and one of the ways we could do it - would be by colonizing/terraforming a nearby planetary body capable of supporting life - like for example, Mars. This is why the vastness of the universe is irrelevant in this case. There are billions of billions of trillions of billions of planets in the universe. There is no way we can colonize all of them - and there is no reason to start with the ones on the other side of the universe (unless, you know, mass relay). The major distance we will have to overcome is first stepping outside our solar system - the closest star is still light years away and we want a star with habitable planets. This is a problem that could be solved by a FTL engine or something like the 2045 Project. One thing is for certain - we need more room for the species to grow and we need to maximize the efficiency of the space we have. Earth has not yet reached this efficiency potential - and efficient technologies have a way of turning up in space programs like NASA. The two problems - space exploration and Earth reformation are intertwined through science. One helps the other. I think one of the best things we could do would be to focus on BOTH topics with an awareness of the challenges in each field - and thus a greater rate of collaboration.


This last bit is a bit more political - but I'm interested to hear (enlightened) takes on it (or explanations of the problems involved that I am not understanding):

I think with things like "saving the Earth" and "saving the human race" - money should be less of a concern. Can't the whole world just give itself a couple extra probe/manned launches as a present? Or a shot in the arm(/poor underdeveloped country)? Lets say I wanted to send a group of volunteers to build infrastructure in a certain part of the world - is the main problem resources and travel expense? Because that seems like things are just being held up by greedy corporations who are "sorry, but that's business." I don't think "The Home Despot" would be put out of business by a even a few hundred thousand dollars worth of wood and nails - nor any airline that sent the volunteers over for free. I don't think charity should be about raising money to purchase the necessary goods. If we are going to live in a Capitalist society where corporations are considered people - those corporations need to contribute to the people in more ways than getting rid of excess money when taxes come around. It shouldn't be "damnit, we have all this money - quick give some to that charity thing" - but instead be "we give some of our expertise to the improvement and modernization of the world, we still turn a profit, and damnit we're proud of that shit."
Now witness their attempts to fly from tree to tree. Notice they do not so much fly as plummet.
The_Masked_Shrimp
Profile Joined February 2012
425 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-07 00:25:19
August 07 2012 00:23 GMT
#842
On August 07 2012 08:44 m4inbrain wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2012 08:34 The_Masked_Shrimp wrote:
On August 07 2012 06:53 xrapture wrote:
Ah, of all the words I've heard in relation to math, something that isn't required in nearly any of the world's jobs, practical is one I've not heard.


And making such a statement after associating pyramids with slavery and before making an analogy which does not make any sense bewteen the universe and the earth-mars distance... really?


Which is actually entirely true. They may not have used exclusively slaves, but they ALSO used them (which is also proven, check on Amenemhets II), so stop picking on a true statement - it makes you (and the other guy) look stupid.


I did not say it was not true, it was to put it alongside his other statements which did not make sense on an argument against Mars/space exploration.
Umpteen
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United Kingdom1570 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-07 00:45:33
August 07 2012 00:42 GMT
#843
If we went around tearing down everything that was built in whole or in part with slave labour a lot of us wouldn't have a country to wake up in tomorrow.

This last bit is a bit more political - but I'm interested to hear (enlightened) takes on it (or explanations of the problems involved that I am not understanding):


It's just easier to use money. There's nothing actually wrong with giving a buttload of cash to someone and saying "Here, you know what needs doing better than I do, go to it."

Of course, if a company wants to also offer its services cheaply or free to charities, that's cool too. But I've never seen a starving African child whose most pressing need was for a really top-notch lawyer.
The existence of a food chain is inescapable if we evolved unsupervised, and inexcusable otherwise.
Rah
Profile Joined February 2010
United States973 Posts
August 07 2012 00:45 GMT
#844
On August 07 2012 08:43 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
North is down according to Wikipedia:

[image loading]


No drilling for a while


I haven't followed this mission closely. Was the landing way off or close to where they wanted it?
Streaming on twitch. http://www.twitch.tv/rahsun86
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-07 00:46:00
August 07 2012 00:45 GMT
#845
On August 07 2012 08:51 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:


Its on another freaking planet *_*
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
Mandini
Profile Joined April 2011
United States1717 Posts
August 07 2012 00:50 GMT
#846
On August 07 2012 09:45 Rah wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 07 2012 08:43 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
North is down according to Wikipedia:

[image loading]


No drilling for a while


I haven't followed this mission closely. Was the landing way off or close to where they wanted it?

It was within the desired landing zone.
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-07 00:56:26
August 07 2012 00:55 GMT
#847
Haha from the gw2 tweet:

New Martian image:
http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10151046510899209&set=a.135044094208.103264.114036714208&type=1
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
TheWestWind
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada87 Posts
August 07 2012 01:53 GMT
#848
$2.5 billion for awe inspiring trip to other world vs $45 billion for 10 Nimitz class aircraft carriers (not counting the 900 aircraft at $50 million a pop)

If you think dissasembling foreigners is more important than getting off this planet, you are a) wrong b) a bigot and c) an idiot cause there are more cost effective dissasembling methods available on the open market.
what up with that?
Klogon
Profile Blog Joined November 2002
MURICA15980 Posts
August 07 2012 02:41 GMT
#849
Because of Curiosity, I wanted to dig a bit into exactly what NASA was trying to look for, and I found this youtube video which is pretty cool:

SatelliteNoodles
Profile Joined June 2011
220 Posts
August 07 2012 03:02 GMT
#850
Awright! Lez go to mars!

Anyway Im just glad the landing was a success, and to people who says this is just a waste... Gtfo pls?

+ Show Spoiler +
lol, im currently reading ARIA(manga) right now and somehow this mission gave me the chills

TO MARS!!!
GIVE ME COMMAND... - Yell0w ­­­
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-07 03:07:46
August 07 2012 03:07 GMT
#851
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timekeeping_on_Mars#Sols

So that is what Sol Means, was thinking like a week. So all those timelines given during the Press Conference don't seem so bad after all. With the exception of the drilling of course.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
biology]major
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2253 Posts
August 07 2012 03:09 GMT
#852
On August 07 2012 11:41 Klogon wrote:
Because of Curiosity, I wanted to dig a bit into exactly what NASA was trying to look for, and I found this youtube video which is pretty cool:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgMXPXdqJn8


interesting.

there were cases in which our nucleotides were found on large space rocks. This has changed our view on our genetic origins, meaning our nucleotides existed before life on earth. For all we know other forms of life in the universe could also be fundamentally similiar to us in that way (same nucleotides) and I think this is one of the things curiosity will look for. I am not sure if it is advanced enough to be able to isolate and determine that, but I would'nt be surprised if NASA has such intentions.
Question.?
Perdac Curall
Profile Joined June 2011
242 Posts
August 07 2012 03:15 GMT
#853
To those saying that space exploration is a waste of money and isn't practical you should watch this movie:



The Apollo project has been analysed in many different studies over the years, and it is estimated that for every one dollar invested in Apollo, the government recieved 14 dollars in new tax revenue from economic activity that would not have taken place if it were not for Apollo. It represented really the last time the US has seen real physical economic growth. The 14:1 number is not even that current because the studies were all done decades ago and much of the technological breakthroughs achieved during Apollo are still with us today providing economic benefits.

Manned missions to Mars would almost certainly require fusion rockets to get us there and back. That fusion could be harnessed to give cheap and abundant energy to everyone on Earth. Is that not practical enough for you? There are a myriad of innovations and improvements to quality of life that can only come from advanced science driver missions like space exploration.
If a Black Death could spread throughout the world once in every generation, survivors could procreate freely without making the world too full. The state of affairs might be unpleasant, but what of it? -Sith Lord Bertrand Russell
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-08-07 03:43:53
August 07 2012 03:42 GMT
#854
So besides New Horizons going to Pluto and the next rover(hopefully) and it's three stage introduction I really hope this happens.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mars_sample_return_mission#NASA-ESA_plans

In October 2009, NASA and ESA established the Mars Joint Exploration Initiative to proceed with the ExoMars mission, whose ultimate aim is "the return of samples from Mars in the 2020's". A first step in this was one particular proposal, a joint project between NASA and ESA called ExoMars, would launch in 2018 with unspecified missions to return the sample itself expected in the 2020-2022 time frame.
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
beachbeachy
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States509 Posts
August 07 2012 03:52 GMT
#855
This is way too cool.
Dream no small dreams for they have no power to move the hearts of men. - Goethe
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 07 2012 03:58 GMT
#856
Recap of last night.


"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 07 2012 04:11 GMT
#857
THIS is why the success of MSL Curiosity was so important:

With the Curiosity rover safely installed on the surface of Mars, the future has never looked so bright for the legions of prospective space-devices vying to crowd the rover's spot in the annals of human history. To brighten their futures even further, NASA's Innovative Advanced Concepts (NIAC) Program this week awarded generous funding to twenty-eight such futuristic projects. The roster of winners includes a submarine designed to explore Jupiter's moon Europa, a robot that wants to landsail across the surface of Venus, and a device that could be used repurpose the solid parts of waste water as radiation shielding. That's NASA, baby.

The projects were split into the categories of "Phase I" and "Phase II," with Phase I ideas being brand-new projects that were awarded $100,000 for one year each. The Phase II projects, of which there are ten, are described as former Phase I projects that stand ready for development. They'll receive $500,000 for two years.

Unsurprisingly, the more outlandish projects are found in the Phase I awards, including the landsailer that plans to "sail" across Venus using the planet's electromagnetic fields. We also find in Phase I something called "Water Walls," a concept where fecal matter, urine, and other such undesireable material is removed from waste water and repurposed as radiation shielding. Another winning project aims to build an air purification system that contains no moving parts.

Phase II is the home of slightly more developed projects, including the amazing-sounding V2Suit. The V2Suit is a spacesuit kitted out with an astounding array of gyroscopes, accelerometers, and associated gadgetry fitted into the limbs and body of the suit itself. The data provided by these devices will be used to instruct flywheels integrated into the suit to apply resistance to the astronaut's movements, replicating Earth-like gravity even in conditions of zero- or micro-gravity.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
rezoacken
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada2719 Posts
August 07 2012 04:18 GMT
#858
Yeah lets have a submarine on Europa :O
Either we are alone in the Universe or we are not. Both are equally terrifying.
StyLeD
Profile Joined January 2011
United States2965 Posts
August 07 2012 04:21 GMT
#859
If it only takes 8 months to get to Mars, once a space suit is designed for the Martian environment, you could conceivably send an astronaut there if s/he was willing to spend 2+ years exploring Mars.
"Even gophers love Starcraft" - Tasteless. || Davichi | IU <3
ODKStevez
Profile Joined February 2011
Ireland1225 Posts
August 07 2012 04:24 GMT
#860
I get chills every time I hear about this.
Luppa <3
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