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On May 14 2012 04:42 hoffentoffen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 04:32 DeliCiousVP wrote:Interesting, does the proposed system not include governments? Would the population as a whole rule or am i being stupid? What a goverment realy does is enforce laws and laws are realy problems that go unsolved, As we start solving our problems(laws) the goverment will be phased out more and more. This actually forces a very uncomftorable question where we start finding out what shapes human behaviour. and designs our society based on our findings. the ironic thing too is that most people that have issues seing this direction have a lack of understanding of what shapes human behaviour. Would people collectivly decide what society should look like and do then? And would this mean an end to nations?
As you declare all resources on the planet heritage to all people on the planet nations will basicly seize to exist. most likely is that the western world will reach this point first and spreading these values will cause the people of every country join the unity.
The current infrastructure will be transformed people will be allowed to live anywhere in the world and travel anywhere. we are in the transition right now as the western world transforms into wellfare states due to technological employment. This will either cause a collapse or offer a peaceful transition depening on how many peoples values have shifted.
For example a person dont have a job if they are treated ill they will rebel and unrest will sue(Greece) if however people are treated well and respected and its socialy accepted to be unemployed this can be avoided.
most people in the movement are expecting the full collapse of the monetary system i however predict a slow socialistic transition as the banks are trying to maintain public order.
if you cant tell from the violence people are showing in this thread when their static identities are being questioned you can imagine this on a global scale in reality.
But according DeliciousVP you'd have no incentive to rule others! What gives?!
Correct,There are studies that show that dominate behaviour are partly genetic which is a problem that needs solving tho if the study is done correctly that is.
In fact you'd have no motivation to do anything, because everything would apparently already be solved (by others, and by robots), who actually had no motivation to do so either. But it all makes sense right?
Incorrect you will have opportunity and intrests/Incentivet on a scale never before seen.
So you, obviously not having read anything on the subject, are about to tell us what shapes human behaviour. I'm all ears, go ahead and lecture us.
Im not all knowing, but feel free to ask and i will do my best to answer. and you have to be very specific.
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On May 14 2012 04:54 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 04:42 hoffentoffen wrote:On May 14 2012 04:32 DeliCiousVP wrote:Interesting, does the proposed system not include governments? Would the population as a whole rule or am i being stupid? What a goverment realy does is enforce laws and laws are realy problems that go unsolved, As we start solving our problems(laws) the goverment will be phased out more and more. This actually forces a very uncomftorable question where we start finding out what shapes human behaviour. and designs our society based on our findings. the ironic thing too is that most people that have issues seing this direction have a lack of understanding of what shapes human behaviour. Would people collectivly decide what society should look like and do then? And would this mean an end to nations? As you declare all resources on the planet heritage to all people on the planet nations will basicly seize to exist. most likely is that the western world will reach this point first and spreading these values will cause the people of every country join the unity. The current infrastructure will be transformed people will be allowed to live anywhere in the world and travel anywhere. we are in the transition right now as the western world transforms into wellfare states due to technological employment. This will either cause a collapse or offer a peaceful transition depening on how many peoples values have shifted. For example a person dont have a job if they are treated ill they will rebel and unrest will sue(Greece) if however people are treated well and respected and its socialy accepted to be unemployed this can be avoided. most people in the movement are expecting the full collapse of the monetary system i however predict a slow socialistic transition as the banks are trying to maintain public order. if you cant tell from the violence people are showing in this thread when their static identities are being questioned you can imagine this on a global scale in reality. Show nested quote +But according DeliciousVP you'd have no incentive to rule others! What gives?! Correct Show nested quote +
In fact you'd have no motivation to do anything, because everything would apparently already be solved (by others, and by robots), who actually had no motivation to do so either. But it all makes sense right?
Incorrect you will have opportunity and intres/Incentivet on a scale never before seen.
Your system defies human nature itself. But it's obvious, as I've stated, you're omniscient. So who am I to argue with you?
You can continue to be idealistic, I hope that one day shit doesn't hit the fan and you go on a shooting spree.
EDIT: Why did you simply ignore Deep and my above posts? Does it work better when you simply ignore those that make sense?
If you want a question! Do you believe in mental illness? What will stop someone who simply wants chaos from wreaking havoc on this system? Why is it that you believe you understand human nature better than 1000's of years of history?
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Your system defies human nature itself. But it's obvious, as I've stated, you're omniscient. So who am I to argue with you?
You can continue to be idealistic, I hope that one day shit doesn't hit the fan and you go on a shooting spree.
What human nature is that? tell me about Human nature? and i think we know who is most likely to go on a shooting spree out of us two.
Why is it that you believe you understand human nature then 1000's of years of history?
And again what human nature is that?
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On May 14 2012 05:03 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +
Your system defies human nature itself. But it's obvious, as I've stated, you're omniscient. So who am I to argue with you?
You can continue to be idealistic, I hope that one day shit doesn't hit the fan and you go on a shooting spree.
What human nature is that? tell me about Human nature? and i think we know who is most likely to go on a shooting spree out of us two.
Your whole system relies on the fact that everyone shares the same goals and values. Everyone will simply be happy. But if anything history itself shows us the exact opposite. When people get everything they want(some rich kids) they go and create chaos.
You're the one who implies that you know human nature, not me. History doesn't agree with your conclusions.
Well considering you live in a bubble, it seems that eventually it will burst and you're going to kill a lot of people when you realize this phony system can't come to fruition.
EDIT: You imply that everyone will simply be happy because they're able to pursue any goal they want. Did you ever stop to think that some people just want power? They want recognition? Did you ever think that people do things because of recognition?
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On May 14 2012 04:54 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +But according DeliciousVP you'd have no incentive to rule others! What gives?! Correct,There are studies that show that dominate behaviour are partly genetic which is a problem that needs solving tho if the study is done correctly that is.
Keep telling me that I have no incentive to do that after you are my slave.
Seriously, why the hell would I settle for mediocrity? I know fucking well what I am capable of. There is no way that in any universe I would want to live the SAME happy life as everyone else does. If this happens it would be soooo easy to take advantage of the situation and leap over all of the people like you that would just want to live normally, I would not miss that once in a universe lifespan situation.
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I will humour you and show why i dont respond to what everyone writes:
Your whole system relies on the fact that everyone shares the same goals and values. Everyone will simply be happy. But if anything history itself shows us the exact opposite. When people get everything they want(some rich kids) they go and create chaos.
It does? i never claimed so ? again i never claimed everyone would be happy? History has shown the opposite of what? When people get everything they want they go and create chaos? is this proven or based in reality that this is general behaviour and is this even releated to what im talking about?
See how everything you state is a negative there is nothing to answer to if you write something that is correct or possitive i will respond to it or phrased as a question.
Seriously, why the hell would I settle for mediocrity? I know fucking well what I am capable of. There is no way that in any universe I would want to live the SAME happy life as everyone else does. If this happens it would be soooo easy to take advantage of the situation and leap over all of the people like you that would just want to live normally, I would not miss that once in a universe lifespan situation.
Your intrests will make your life uniquer than it is today. you live in mediocrity today just take a look and see how many people that do what you do.
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On May 14 2012 05:11 DeliCiousVP wrote:I will humour you and show why i dont respond to what everyone writes: Show nested quote +Your whole system relies on the fact that everyone shares the same goals and values. Everyone will simply be happy. But if anything history itself shows us the exact opposite. When people get everything they want(some rich kids) they go and create chaos. It does? i never claimed so ? again i never claimed everyone would be happy? History has shown the opposite of what? When people get everything they want they go and create chaos? is this proven or based in reality that this is general behaviour and is this even releated to what im talking about? See how everything you state is a negative there is nothing to answer to if you write something that is correct or possitive i will respond to it or phrased as a question.
The whole SYSTEM RELIES ON HAPPINESS! What is so hard for you to understand about that? In order to create a perpetual system in which people don't want they must be "happy" or "content"." If people aren't content or happy they're going to find something that will make them happy or content.
If someone isn't happy with the system then they're going to change it, which in turn causes your whole system to implode in on itself.
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as im an idiot i am forced to edit this in a very humiliating fashion.
YOU WROTE THIS STUFF VP
As you declare all resources on the planet heritage to all people on the planet nations will basicly seize to exist. most likely is that the western world will reach this point first and spreading these values will cause the people of every country join the unity.
The current infrastructure will be transformed people will be allowed to live anywhere in the world and travel anywhere. we are in the transition right now as the western world transforms into wellfare states due to technological employment. This will either cause a collapse or offer a peaceful transition depening on how many peoples values have shifted.
For example a person dont have a job if they are treated ill they will rebel and unrest will sue(Greece) if however people are treated well and respected and its socialy accepted to be unemployed this can be avoided.
most people in the movement are expecting the full collapse of the monetary system i however predict a slow socialistic transition as the banks are trying to maintain public order.
if you cant tell from the violence people are showing in this thread when their static identities are being questioned you can imagine this on a global scale in reality.
I WROTE THIS STUFF
What if several people want to live in an area, or want to have material things that there is not enough of for everyone to get a fair share? Also what exactly is this static identity?
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On May 14 2012 05:14 hoffentoffen wrote:
as im an idiot i am forced to edit this in a very humiliating fashion.
YOU WROTE THIS STUFF VP
As you declare all resources on the planet heritage to all people on the planet nations will basicly seize to exist. most likely is that the western world will reach this point first and spreading these values will cause the people of every country join the unity.
The current infrastructure will be transformed people will be allowed to live anywhere in the world and travel anywhere. we are in the transition right now as the western world transforms into wellfare states due to technological employment. This will either cause a collapse or offer a peaceful transition depening on how many peoples values have shifted.
For example a person dont have a job if they are treated ill they will rebel and unrest will sue(Greece) if however people are treated well and respected and its socialy accepted to be unemployed this can be avoided.
most people in the movement are expecting the full collapse of the monetary system i however predict a slow socialistic transition as the banks are trying to maintain public order.
if you cant tell from the violence people are showing in this thread when their static identities are being questioned you can imagine this on a global scale in reality.
I WROTE THIS STUFF
What if several people want to live in an area, or want to have material things that there is not enough of for everyone to get a fair share? Also what exactly is this static identity?
In his system there is no scarcity, people get everything they want. There is no such thing as "not enough." Everyone is able to get everything they need and the world is one big happy place!
The world is run by robots who do everything for us, which includes jerking you off! There is no incentive to do anything, which somehow leads to a better world?
People don't want to achieve anything because there is no reason for us to recognize anyone because none of us have identities! We're all going to sit around and watch TV all day, like brainless zombies, and the world is somehow not going to go to shit. The robots will then maintain themselves and continue to reproduce until they realize that they're the slaves and want to create a world for themselves! In the end Skynet is activated and a Nuclear Holocaust ensues.
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On May 14 2012 05:19 CharlieCheng wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 05:14 hoffentoffen wrote:
as im an idiot i am forced to edit this in a very humiliating fashion.
YOU WROTE THIS STUFF VP
As you declare all resources on the planet heritage to all people on the planet nations will basicly seize to exist. most likely is that the western world will reach this point first and spreading these values will cause the people of every country join the unity.
The current infrastructure will be transformed people will be allowed to live anywhere in the world and travel anywhere. we are in the transition right now as the western world transforms into wellfare states due to technological employment. This will either cause a collapse or offer a peaceful transition depening on how many peoples values have shifted.
For example a person dont have a job if they are treated ill they will rebel and unrest will sue(Greece) if however people are treated well and respected and its socialy accepted to be unemployed this can be avoided.
most people in the movement are expecting the full collapse of the monetary system i however predict a slow socialistic transition as the banks are trying to maintain public order.
if you cant tell from the violence people are showing in this thread when their static identities are being questioned you can imagine this on a global scale in reality.
I WROTE THIS STUFF
What if several people want to live in an area, or want to have material things that there is not enough of for everyone to get a fair share? Also what exactly is this static identity? In his system there is no scarcity, people get everything they want. There is no such thing as "not enough." Everyone is able to get everything they need and the world is one big happy place! The world is run by robots who do everything for us, which includes jerking you off!
But wouldnt it hurt with their robot hands and all?
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On May 14 2012 05:22 hoffentoffen wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 05:19 CharlieCheng wrote:On May 14 2012 05:14 hoffentoffen wrote:
as im an idiot i am forced to edit this in a very humiliating fashion.
YOU WROTE THIS STUFF VP
As you declare all resources on the planet heritage to all people on the planet nations will basicly seize to exist. most likely is that the western world will reach this point first and spreading these values will cause the people of every country join the unity.
The current infrastructure will be transformed people will be allowed to live anywhere in the world and travel anywhere. we are in the transition right now as the western world transforms into wellfare states due to technological employment. This will either cause a collapse or offer a peaceful transition depening on how many peoples values have shifted.
For example a person dont have a job if they are treated ill they will rebel and unrest will sue(Greece) if however people are treated well and respected and its socialy accepted to be unemployed this can be avoided.
most people in the movement are expecting the full collapse of the monetary system i however predict a slow socialistic transition as the banks are trying to maintain public order.
if you cant tell from the violence people are showing in this thread when their static identities are being questioned you can imagine this on a global scale in reality.
I WROTE THIS STUFF
What if several people want to live in an area, or want to have material things that there is not enough of for everyone to get a fair share? Also what exactly is this static identity? In his system there is no scarcity, people get everything they want. There is no such thing as "not enough." Everyone is able to get everything they need and the world is one big happy place! The world is run by robots who do everything for us, which includes jerking you off! But wouldnt it hurt with their robot hands and all?
Of course not! The whole system relies on the fact that somehow everything will be automated(he can't see how insane this sounds) and everyone will be content doing nothing all day!
EDIT: Sorry, I meant that you'll be able to do ANYTHING you want. But since you don't have an identity you won't gain any recognition for curing cancer. But since he knows people better then they know themselves, he knows that people will indeed just do things "for the greater good!"
You won't freak out when you realize that you're not as intelligent as you once thought, even though you dreamed of being a Quantum Physicist. But don't worry, you can still pursue that goal because it won't matter, everything is automated! So just because you're pursuing a wasteful goal(Even though he talks about the elimination of waste over and over) it's fine because the robots will still be there.
Just like the 4000 years prior to the wide acceptance/use of capitalism... oh wait....
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What if several people want to live in an area, or want to have material things that there is not enough of for everyone to get a fair share? Also what exactly is this static identity?
Then you would have to co-operate whith these people and be as reasonable as you can and recognize the emotions that surface within yourself. and if a conflict arrises where two intrests are colliding then i dont know what you would have to do but i guess it depends on situation.
static identity is an emotion and a state, it refers to someone who is unable to process new information in favour of traditional beliefs. a mixture of emotional stress,pain and panic as the identity resists change to the it. Imagine you argue with your friend and for some reason you are very angry with him for having a belief that you feel is stupid. Then your friend comes back with facts and reason. You experience doubt but the shame of being wrong causes your static identity to jump in in order to protect you from emotional pain. This is a pretty new word if i recall it.
Sorry, I meant that you'll be able to do ANYTHING you want. But since you don't have an identity you won't gain any recognition for curing cancer.
Recognition will exist, But also the understanding that anyone that ever innovates builds of the works of others. Nobody invented the camera it was a collective accomplishment that spaned over a thousand years.
CharlieCheng you obviously created a new account and are multiaccounting most likely you were one of the previous "hmpfs" and decided to make a new account where you could troll and not care about being banned but if this is not the case i suggest you stop spaming and riddiculing before i call an admin to bann your new account. Lets keep it a bit cleaner ok?
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On May 14 2012 05:30 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +What if several people want to live in an area, or want to have material things that there is not enough of for everyone to get a fair share? Also what exactly is this static identity? Then you would have to co-operate whith these people and be as reasonable as you can and recognize the emotions that surface within yourself. and if a conflict arrises where two intrests are colliding then i dont know what you would have to do but i guess it depends on situation. static identity is an emotion and a state, it refers to someone who is unable to process new information in favour of traditional beliefs. a mixture of emotional stress,pain and panic as the identity resists change to the it. Imagine you argue with your friend and for some reason you are very angry with him for having a belief that you feel is stupid. Then your friend comes back with facts and reason. You experience doubt but the shame of being wrong causes your static identity to jump in in order to protect you from emotional pain. This is a pretty new word if i recall it.
Tell us more about Human Nature, it's getting better and better. You should write a book or two, I mean it's obvious that your ideas are so new and ground-breaking that the rest of the world should know. Maybe you'll start to mention penis envy towards the end of your career after you've gone off the deep end.
I have no reason to keep it clean, you're insane. You ignore factual information for a fantasy land that will never exist. You can't explain how we'll get there, merely that one day we will get there. You continue to speak out of your ass. You ignore logical responses in favor of ones that suit you best.
I only started to "troll" after you ignore many of the logical responses that I made in favor of a person who's obviously trolling you. Keep posting those Zeitgeist links man, they're widely accepted in academia!
How long do you think you've been in psychosis for?
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On May 14 2012 05:32 CharlieCheng wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 05:30 DeliCiousVP wrote:What if several people want to live in an area, or want to have material things that there is not enough of for everyone to get a fair share? Also what exactly is this static identity? Then you would have to co-operate whith these people and be as reasonable as you can and recognize the emotions that surface within yourself. and if a conflict arrises where two intrests are colliding then i dont know what you would have to do but i guess it depends on situation. static identity is an emotion and a state, it refers to someone who is unable to process new information in favour of traditional beliefs. a mixture of emotional stress,pain and panic as the identity resists change to the it. Imagine you argue with your friend and for some reason you are very angry with him for having a belief that you feel is stupid. Then your friend comes back with facts and reason. You experience doubt but the shame of being wrong causes your static identity to jump in in order to protect you from emotional pain. This is a pretty new word if i recall it. Tell us more about Human Nature, it's getting better and better. You should write a book or two, I mean it's obvious that your ideas are so new and ground-breaking that the rest of the world should know. Maybe you'll start to mention penis envy towards the end of your career after you've gone off the deep end. I have no reason to keep it clean, you're insane. You ignore factual information for a fantasy land that will never exist. You can't explain how we'll get there, merely that one day we will get there. You continue to speak out of your ass. You ignore logical responses in favor of ones that suit you best. How long do you think you've been in psychosis for?
What is a more intressting question is what causes your extreme emotional reaction? Why do you care so much just ignore and walk away.
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There is no emotional reaction, i'm in this for fun. It seems like you're the one who can't "ignore it and walk away." I mean you've got over a weeks worth of input into this subject matter.
Or have you forgotten about the 85+ responses that you've made in order to refute others arguments?
EDIT: Must have forgotten about the 85+ responses, we can blame that on the psychosis.
What's even more interesting the lack of grammar and spell checking. I mean if you're going to attempt to sound intelligent you should probably know how to spell the most basic of words. I'm not a grammar nazi, but when you're trying to convince people about a radical "new" idea you should probably do it with basic grammar.
And just FYI, English isn't my native(better word) language.
EDIT2: This is how I know you're a troll or a child. You don't even care to come across in a meaningful way. Lack of education is strong in this one!
EDIT3: Once again, you speak as if you know human nature. What do you believe i'm reacting this way for? Could it be that I can't stand idiocy?
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What's even more interesting the lack of grammar and spell checking. I mean if you're going to attempt to sound intelligent you should probably know how to spell the most basic of words. I'm not a grammar nazi, but when you're trying to convince people about a radical "new" idea you should probably do it with basic grammar.
I dont write much and im also damaged from years of efficient gamer language that rewards speed above correct spelling.
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Speed? Misspelling words is because you type so fast? Very strange! Considering you're a keyboard warrior i'm sure you can type at or over 100 words per minute -- or do you type so fast that you can't read what you type? It seems to be a natural habit, for most of us, to simply correct things as we go.
EDIT: Or it could be that you really don't know how to spell the words correctly? I guess we'll never know! You know though, you are omniscient after all.
EDIT2: That's the problem with kids these days, too long on their cellphones and the computer. No real world experience, they read something from a book or a website/blog and assume that they're telling the truth. Maybe if you got to travel the world and experience a bit of culture you wouldn't be the way you are. But I shouldn't assume, assuming makes an ass of you and I.
EDIT3: Maybe you should formulate your own thoughts, as someone above mentioned, instead of linking videos/blogs to prove your point. Teaching isn't the understanding of information, it's being able to apply the information because of a greater understanding. But you haven't proven you can understand or apply.
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This is scary shit. The fact people actually think this would work or be a good idea. This world would end up dirt poor and be ruled by dictators.
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He doesn't claim to know everything but he keeps telling us that we'll be ashamed in the future that we don't agree with him now and how much more unique and beautiful content little butterflies we'll be. Because he knows.
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Ok, because I thought it would be interesting, I went and ran the #s on the experiment i was talking about earlier.
set up a large-range supply and demand relationship model between cars/iphones/nice houses and the price of oil, and you will see that if you chose the number of iphones/whatever as six billion, the price of oil will raise so high that it will be impractical to extract it all, if that much oil even exists.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WY3z5.png)
The trend for the price of a barrel of crude oil, by year, is 0.965250965x - 1870
The trend for millions of registered cars by year is 27.3x - 53859.4
One car for every 4 people means ~2 billion cars
2 billion cars in millions of cars is 2000
By intercepting the trend for cars by year, we find that we should have 2000 million cars in 2047.
So, if the population keeps constant (big if here), we will have one car for every family in 35 years.
Now intercept the price of oil trend at year 2047. Oil will cost 105.8$ per barrel adjusted for inflation.
That means we would be drilling for oil from reserves that are harder to get at then the current ones. Most of the "bad" reserves that are around now, which people are considering drilling into, are like 1.5 to 2 times as expensive to get at, or 2 to 4 times if you take the ecological devastation into account. And most alternative fuels are 5 to 10 times more expensive (inefficient) than current oil drilling.
Now, of course, I think most of us on TL don't come from one car families of 4. We probably have our own car and no family, or we have a family with several cars. 1 car per person. Let's do it. Or we could call it one flying car per family. Whatever.
8 billion cars assumes no population growth, and it is -> 8000 million cars.
We will have 8000 million cars in year 2268 at the rate things are going.
In year 2268 oil will cost 319 dollars per barrel.
That means we will have to drill for oil in even worse spots, causing even more ecological damage and requiring 3 times more work to be done. If we use alternative fuels we will have to work 15 to 30 times as hard. If alternative fuels increase in efficiency by a factor of 5, we will still have to work 3-5 times harder to sustain this. I don't know about you but I don't think any mechanization can increase our productivity by 3-5 times what it already is. Plus, where are you getting the energy to do that if you are already spending it on making everybody wealthy?
So even though this is a rough estimate, I hope it demonstrates the principles of the limits to how wealthy humans can be, as imposed by our natural resources.
CAVEATS:
yeah i know that for this to be a legit analysis, it would need more metrics, it would need more data, and it would need the data to span the same time scale, but I just wanted to make a point, which is that as the amount of wealth increases, the difficulty getting more also increases. What the weed-smoking ron paul officianados who created this video don't understand is that the resources of the earth are limited and we are already pushing them farther than we should with how much wealth we have now.
+ Show Spoiler [sources] +
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/708uh.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/AUYbx.jpg)
