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On May 14 2012 03:24 DeliCiousVP wrote:
No, change requires a certain value shift it is considered a form of violence to want to much aswel as offering to little. If someone say i wanna have a 100 room mansion and 10 cars that i OWN, I could say sure you get that if i get a mansion as big as africa. We gotta be realistic about what we feel we are entitled to i will tell you this tho you will have access to a 100 times as much shit as you get today.
btw valid question im impressed.
That doesnt answer my question, I have asked you through what process you will ensure that there is a fair and equal attribution of ressources to all members of society, how do you prevent abuses and how do you establish what is fair (you dont have any currency anymore remember...). Saying I will have access to 100 times more though is complete and utter bullshit.
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On May 14 2012 03:44 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 03:34 hoffentoffen wrote:On May 14 2012 03:24 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 14 2012 03:08 hoffentoffen wrote:On May 14 2012 03:07 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 14 2012 03:03 hoffentoffen wrote:
How would resources be distributed in a system like this? Resources for innovaters and research or do you refer to goods for the population? goods for the population. also depends on the good but most likely you can order it from a tablet or the internet. it will be assembled at a highly automated factory near you and sent to a pick up spot close to you or directly to your house using vaccum tubes used in the medical field today. What if i want a car? Public transportation will be the prefered means you want to travel with this is due to it being easier and more efficent but obviously you will have the option to take your own automobile wherever you please. You use the same proccess if the mobile you want does not exist currently in the access car pool it will be created in the factory and sent to you using advanced navigation. Already in use in NYC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain One of our enginners are continueing to test this technology currently in switzerland. Current needs a person recquires for a high standard of living is Shelter/Food/Computer/Cellphone/transportation/recreation opportunity. As we move along more needs will be added and alot of wants aswel. You can build houses in customized houses from the ground up today using 3D technology in 24 hours. and its not some small commisar shack either. Food is grown localy using hydronponics and are clean and ecological, there is even techonology being created where they can grow meat without having to butcher pigs and cows. I see, thank you for your awnser. But who would actually do this? Who as in which one person would do all of this by himself? or who as in who in the human labour force would be motivated to implement all of this without a paycheck?
I guess what i mean is would this be automated somehow or would it be overseen by the government or some other organisation?
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On May 14 2012 03:44 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 03:34 hoffentoffen wrote:On May 14 2012 03:24 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 14 2012 03:08 hoffentoffen wrote:On May 14 2012 03:07 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 14 2012 03:03 hoffentoffen wrote:
How would resources be distributed in a system like this? Resources for innovaters and research or do you refer to goods for the population? goods for the population. also depends on the good but most likely you can order it from a tablet or the internet. it will be assembled at a highly automated factory near you and sent to a pick up spot close to you or directly to your house using vaccum tubes used in the medical field today. What if i want a car? Public transportation will be the prefered means you want to travel with this is due to it being easier and more efficent but obviously you will have the option to take your own automobile wherever you please. You use the same proccess if the mobile you want does not exist currently in the access car pool it will be created in the factory and sent to you using advanced navigation. Already in use in NYC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain One of our enginners are continueing to test this technology currently in switzerland. Current needs a person recquires for a high standard of living is Shelter/Food/Computer/Cellphone/transportation/recreation opportunity. As we move along more needs will be added and alot of wants aswel. You can build houses in customized houses from the ground up today using 3D technology in 24 hours. and its not some small commisar shack either. Food is grown localy using hydronponics and are clean and ecological, there is even techonology being created where they can grow meat without having to butcher pigs and cows. I see, thank you for your awnser. But who would actually do this? Who as in which one person would do all of this by himself? or who as in who in the human labour force would be motivated to implement all of this without a paycheck? Show nested quote +How hasn't this person been banned yet? It's obvious they're trolling.
They call people "indoctrinated," but they'll believe information from NWO Conspiracy Theorists at face value? None of the articles he's linked has provided any substance, and even the ones that do make a tiny bit of sense are not backed by factual information.
Team Liquid Mod's will ban people from making critical claims about Trans-Gender/Homo-Sexual individuals but you won't ban someone who's either openly trolling or a complete fool. He's done enough harassment of known members of this community to warrant not only a warning, but a ban multiple times throughout this threa Nice first post you seem very well versed in teamliquids banning proccess for someone apperntly joing TL for the first time. And if you read through the tread i have suffered massive personal attacks without an admin flinching to help me and once i was joking around in the spirit they were i was immietly warned so dont worry.
You're suffering personal attacks because you're insane! You're ignoring real world facts to try and justify a system that has already been tried and tested -- It doesn't work! You're expecting everyone to have the same goals and values, that's not a realistic goal to have. People are inherently different, when you finally see this you'll understand that expecting everyone to aspire to work for the greater good isn't something that's possible.
You point out the greediness of the capitalist system, over the last decade and a half nearly 1.8 Billion people have risen to the middle class because of the "greed" that you hate so much. The reason why so many people jump to protect the free-market capitalist system is because they've read history and seen the atrocities of everything else.
EDIT: I would know, I lived in Communist China. You're going to tell me that a system like that is something we should aspire to achieve?
EDIT 2: Read the first few pages when you told the Japanese fellow that you knew what he'd want more then he would himself. I've read enough, no reason to argue with you anymore. It's obvious that you believe you're an omniscient being with super-powers.
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On May 14 2012 03:24 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 03:08 hoffentoffen wrote:On May 14 2012 03:07 DeliCiousVP wrote:On May 14 2012 03:03 hoffentoffen wrote:
How would resources be distributed in a system like this? Resources for innovaters and research or do you refer to goods for the population? goods for the population. also depends on the good but most likely you can order it from a tablet or the internet. it will be assembled at a highly automated factory near you and sent to a pick up spot close to you or directly to your house using vaccum tubes used in the medical field today. What if i want a car? Public transportation will be the prefered means you want to travel with this is due to it being easier and more efficent but obviously you will have the option to take your own automobile wherever you please. You use the same proccess mentioned above.If the mobile you want does not exist currently in the access car pool it will be created in the factory and sent to you using advanced navigation. Already in use in NYC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vactrain One of our enginners are continueing to test this technology currently in switzerland. Current needs a person recquires for a high standard of living is Shelter/Food/Computer/Cellphone/transportation/recreation opportunity. As we move along more needs will be added and alot of wants aswel. You can build houses in customized houses from the ground up today using 3D technology in 24 hours. and its not some small commisar shack either. Food is grown localy using hydronponics and are clean and ecological, there is even techonology being created where they can grow meat without having to butcher pigs and cows. Show nested quote +
'' The more highly unequal a society is, the higher its rates of violence. [this] strongly suggest that a society where all members are given equal and unrestricted access to all available resources will have very few, if any''
How do you ensure that every members in our society would be given equal and unrestricted access to all available resources ?
No, change requires a certain value shift it is considered a form of violence to want to much aswel as offering to little. If someone say i wanna have a 100 room mansion and 10 cars that i OWN, I could say sure you get that if i get a mansion as big as africa. We gotta be realistic about what we feel we are entitled to i will tell you this tho you will have access to a 100 times as much shit as you get today. btw valid question im impressed.
Also, we will have made first contact with the vulcans and started the creation of the federation.
What you're describing is science-fiction. Not actual science. All we need is the invention of the replicator.
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That doesnt answer my question, I have asked you through what process you will ensure that there is a fair and equal attribution of ressources to all members of society, how do you prevent abuses and how do you establish what is fair
The only real way to remove abuse is to remove the incentive for it if a person can gain something from abusing they will when given the opportunity. And what is fair and equal to one person might not be fair and equal to another this is a access system not an ownership, It is hard with the current state of mind you have to understand the process but i will try and give an example.
Think about it from the internet stand point you can either download a movie into the computer or you can copy and burn it and save it one is practical the other unpractical and one is usualy prefered. Ownership has been for centuries a form of security for people to maintain their possition through generations. We have billions of cell phone and computers televisions lying in dumps everywhere if they were created in the first stage of production to be recyclable interchangable and superior there would be mininum waste.
i guess the closes answer i can give you is we should aspire to never be in a situation where we are forced to share something because its scarce and if we do people will have values that allows them to accept whatever gains priority.
Nothing is perfect its just alot better then our current structure.
I guess what i mean is would this be automated somehow or would it be overseen by the government or some other organisation?
No goverment or organization as we know today will monitor these things it will just be us because we will all be us, no doubt there will be enginners constatly improving and changing the design to maximize effiency. Today many of us cannot pursue many intrest because of how boring and slow our education system is.
EDIT: I would know, I lived in Communist China. You're going to tell me that a system like that is something we should aspire to achieve? And im the troll ?
What you're describing is science-fiction. Not actual science.
90% science 10% scientific theory ill say.
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On May 14 2012 04:13 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +That doesnt answer my question, I have asked you through what process you will ensure that there is a fair and equal attribution of ressources to all members of society, how do you prevent abuses and how do you establish what is fair The only real way to remove abuse is to remove the incentive for it if a person can gain something from abusing they will when given the opportunity. And what is fair and equal to one person might not be fair and equal to another this is a access system not an ownership, It is hard with the current state of mind you have to understand the process but i will try and give an example. Think about it from the internet stand point you can either download a movie into the computer or you can copy and burn it and save it one is practical the other unpractical and one is usualy prefered. Ownership has been for centuries a form of security for people to maintain their possition through generations. We have billions of cell phone and computers televisions lying in dumps everywhere if they were created in the first stage of production to be recyclable interchangable and superior there would be mininum waste. i guess the closes answer i can give you is we should aspire to never be in a situation where we are forced to share something because its scarce and if we do people will have values that allows them to accept whatever gains priority.
Oh, so you want to remove private ownership aswell as money? I mean it's a really terrible idea, but at least it's simple at its core. Also, it's been tested, we don't want it.
Edit: And by the way, you wont suddenly up and remove power dynamics of societies. Not even if you wish for it really hard.
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"Over 23% of all the goods and services made since 1AD were produced from 2001 to 2010"
![[image loading]](http://media.economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/20110702_WOC913.gif)
http://www.economist.com/node/21522912
Just imagine how much more abundance we would produce if corporations were not creating artificial scarcity.
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On May 14 2012 04:13 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +That doesnt answer my question, I have asked you through what process you will ensure that there is a fair and equal attribution of ressources to all members of society, how do you prevent abuses and how do you establish what is fair The only real way to remove abuse is to remove the incentive for it if a person can gain something from abusing they will when given the opportunity. And what is fair and equal to one person might not be fair and equal to another this is a access system not an ownership, It is hard with the current state of mind you have to understand the process but i will try and give an example. Think about it from the internet stand point you can either download a movie into the computer or you can copy and burn it and save it one is practical the other unpractical and one is usualy prefered. Ownership has been for centuries a form of security for people to maintain their possition through generations. We have billions of cell phone and computers televisions lying in dumps everywhere if they were created in the first stage of production to be recyclable interchangable and superior there would be mininum waste. i guess the closes answer i can give you is we should aspire to never be in a situation where we are forced to share something because its scarce and if we do people will have values that allows them to accept whatever gains priority. Nothing is perfect its just alot better then our current structure. Show nested quote +
I guess what i mean is would this be automated somehow or would it be overseen by the government or some other organisation?
No goverment or organization as we know today will monitor these things it will just be us because we will all be us, no doubt there will be enginners constatly improving and changing the design to maximize effiency. Today many of us cannot pursue many intrest because of how boring and slow our education system is. Show nested quote +EDIT: I would know, I lived in Communist China. You're going to tell me that a system like that is something we should aspire to achieve? And im the troll ? 90% science 10% scientific theory ill say.
Are you implying that I'm not from where I say I am? OH! I forgot you're an omniscient being who knows all! Good thing I don't take personal offense to people implying that they know more about me then myself.
When did they let you out of the insane asylum? You need to be regulated on medications as soon as possible. The fact that you believe the mumbo-jumbo that you're spouting is unbelievable. Keep living in that fantasy world; it's now painfully obvious that you're a child. Only a child, with no real world experience, would actually say the things that you say. Sadly the real world is a harsh place, full of people with ill-intentions. But when the state doesn't exist and we're all able to pursue any goal we want(because of the technology that doesn't exist, and will never exist) everyone will be extremely happy!
Hopefully i'm dead or they provide a means to kill myself if this system ever comes to fruition.
EDIT: On second thought, I'm going to use the naivety of everyone else in order to achieve global dominance! They'll call me the King Cheng! Songs will be written in my honor on a daily basis and I'll be sure to order 150 virgins a day!
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On May 14 2012 04:17 HellRoxYa wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 04:13 DeliCiousVP wrote:That doesnt answer my question, I have asked you through what process you will ensure that there is a fair and equal attribution of ressources to all members of society, how do you prevent abuses and how do you establish what is fair The only real way to remove abuse is to remove the incentive for it if a person can gain something from abusing they will when given the opportunity. And what is fair and equal to one person might not be fair and equal to another this is a access system not an ownership, It is hard with the current state of mind you have to understand the process but i will try and give an example. Think about it from the internet stand point you can either download a movie into the computer or you can copy and burn it and save it one is practical the other unpractical and one is usualy prefered. Ownership has been for centuries a form of security for people to maintain their possition through generations. We have billions of cell phone and computers televisions lying in dumps everywhere if they were created in the first stage of production to be recyclable interchangable and superior there would be mininum waste. i guess the closes answer i can give you is we should aspire to never be in a situation where we are forced to share something because its scarce and if we do people will have values that allows them to accept whatever gains priority. Oh, so you want to remove private ownership aswell as money? I mean it's a really terrible idea, but at least it's simple at its core. Also, it's been tested, we don't want it. Edit: And by the way, you wont suddenly up and remove power dynamics of societies. Not even if you wish for it really hard.
Yeah i saw how hard it was for gandhi and in egypt and the effect OWS have had on politics. And you can keep all your struff we dont want it while were constantly updating our super google glases you can sit and hoard outdated cellphones and magazines and wooden beams while yelling to everyone else how you hold the keys to the future.
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[QUOTE]On May 14 2012 04:13 DeliCiousVP wrote:
[quote]
I guess what i mean is would this be automated somehow or would it be overseen by the government or some other organisation?[/quote]
No goverment or organization as we know today will monitor these things it will just be us because we will all be us, no doubt there will be enginners constatly improving and changing the design to maximize effiency. Today many of us cannot pursue many intrest because of how boring and slow our education system is.
Interesting, does the proposed system not include governments? Would the population as a whole rule or am i being stupid?
EDIT: as you can tell i am very skilled at posting things
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Your partly right here competition do bring down prices and causes mass production for some products, But these protects are created intrinsictly infererior and only help to fuel cyclical consumption and create waste. some companies form cartels(thats illegal! bla bla it happends) Such as cigarettes and gas and agree on pricing.
Okay at last I get it.
Your problem isn't with the structure of society.
Your problem is with the laws of physics.
Yeah i saw how hard it was for gandhi and in egypt
guys did you know that Gandhi eliminated power dynamics in India they don't have those anymore and there are currently no power dynamics in Egypt?
and the effect OWS have had on politics
Negligible?
OWS is the same protest everything crowd that shows up for every WTO meeting or G-8 summit and has never accomplished anything. Their biggest and only accomplishments so far are getting lots of cops lots of overtime pay and more overtime pay for public works departments workers for cleaning up public spaces after they've shit all over them (literally).
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On May 14 2012 04:22 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 04:17 HellRoxYa wrote:On May 14 2012 04:13 DeliCiousVP wrote:That doesnt answer my question, I have asked you through what process you will ensure that there is a fair and equal attribution of ressources to all members of society, how do you prevent abuses and how do you establish what is fair The only real way to remove abuse is to remove the incentive for it if a person can gain something from abusing they will when given the opportunity. And what is fair and equal to one person might not be fair and equal to another this is a access system not an ownership, It is hard with the current state of mind you have to understand the process but i will try and give an example. Think about it from the internet stand point you can either download a movie into the computer or you can copy and burn it and save it one is practical the other unpractical and one is usualy prefered. Ownership has been for centuries a form of security for people to maintain their possition through generations. We have billions of cell phone and computers televisions lying in dumps everywhere if they were created in the first stage of production to be recyclable interchangable and superior there would be mininum waste. i guess the closes answer i can give you is we should aspire to never be in a situation where we are forced to share something because its scarce and if we do people will have values that allows them to accept whatever gains priority. Oh, so you want to remove private ownership aswell as money? I mean it's a really terrible idea, but at least it's simple at its core. Also, it's been tested, we don't want it. Edit: And by the way, you wont suddenly up and remove power dynamics of societies. Not even if you wish for it really hard. Yeah i saw how hard it was for gandhi and in egypt and the effect OWS have had on politics. And you can keep all your struff we dont want it while were constantly updating our super google glases you can sit and hoard outdated cellphones and magazines and wooden beams while yelling to everyone else how you hold the keys to the future.
I'm pretty sure India still has some serious power dynamics going on, just not with British fingers in it anymore. Also, Gandhi was realistic, really good at what he did, and not someone you should compare yourself or your movement (if it can even be called one) to.
Funny that you should mention outdated cellphones, though. I wonder how all the new ones were researched and created...
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On May 14 2012 04:22 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +On May 14 2012 04:17 HellRoxYa wrote:On May 14 2012 04:13 DeliCiousVP wrote:That doesnt answer my question, I have asked you through what process you will ensure that there is a fair and equal attribution of ressources to all members of society, how do you prevent abuses and how do you establish what is fair The only real way to remove abuse is to remove the incentive for it if a person can gain something from abusing they will when given the opportunity. And what is fair and equal to one person might not be fair and equal to another this is a access system not an ownership, It is hard with the current state of mind you have to understand the process but i will try and give an example. Think about it from the internet stand point you can either download a movie into the computer or you can copy and burn it and save it one is practical the other unpractical and one is usualy prefered. Ownership has been for centuries a form of security for people to maintain their possition through generations. We have billions of cell phone and computers televisions lying in dumps everywhere if they were created in the first stage of production to be recyclable interchangable and superior there would be mininum waste. i guess the closes answer i can give you is we should aspire to never be in a situation where we are forced to share something because its scarce and if we do people will have values that allows them to accept whatever gains priority. Oh, so you want to remove private ownership aswell as money? I mean it's a really terrible idea, but at least it's simple at its core. Also, it's been tested, we don't want it. Edit: And by the way, you wont suddenly up and remove power dynamics of societies. Not even if you wish for it really hard. Yeah i saw how hard it was for gandhi and in egypt and the effect OWS have had on politics. And you can keep all your struff we dont want it while were constantly updating our super google glases you can sit and hoard outdated cellphones and magazines and wooden beams while yelling to everyone else how you hold the keys to the future.
Still ignoring the real world I see? When are the mods finally going to realize you're a 14 year old child? There's no way that you're above the age of 14 thinking like that.
The Tea Party would've been a much better example.
EDIT: SUPER TROLL! He has to be a super-troll. Probably a MOD or admin trolling the forums for fun. That is the only way that he hasn't been banned yet or this abomination of a thread hasn't been closed.
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Interesting, does the proposed system not include governments? Would the population as a whole rule or am i being stupid?
What a goverment realy does is enforce laws and laws are realy problems that go unsolved, As we start solving our problems(laws) the goverment will be phased out more and more.
This actually forces a very uncomftorable question where we start finding out what shapes human behaviour. and designs our society based on our findings.
the ironic thing too is that most people that have issues seing this direction have a lack of understanding of what shapes human behaviour.
I hear ya man. I'm so tired of not being able to play SC2 because the power company is out of energy. It sickens me.
The less they have the more they charge. But water is almost free in the northern hemisphere. if they can convince you that energy is scarce they can juice up the price if you convince them you are paying to much because energy is abundant they have to lower their prices and start becoming more efficent.
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On May 13 2012 23:58 DeliCiousVP wrote:
It is not profitable to have abundant energy
I hear ya man. I'm so tired of not being able to play SC2 because the power company is out of energy. It sickens me.
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The Tea Party would've been a much better example.
That's because the Tea Party is a bunch of old fogeys who actually know how to organize a political movement that wins elections and influences politicians instead of only throwing a temper tantrum (they did at the start too) and expecting everything they want to be handed to them.
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This thread is getting better and better by the post! I don't think I've ever laughed harder in all of my years. Thankfully this hasn't been closed, it's making my week.
Deep: He couldn't possibly mention the Tea Party, it would disprove all of his "legitimate" claims thus far. If he actually pointed out factual information we'd know that he's come out of his psychosis.
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On May 14 2012 04:32 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +Interesting, does the proposed system not include governments? Would the population as a whole rule or am i being stupid? What a goverment realy does is enforce laws and laws are realy problems that go unsolved, As we start solving our problems(laws) the goverment will be phased out more and more. This actually forces a very uncomftorable question where we start finding out what shapes human behaviour. and designs our society based on our findings. the ironic thing too is that most people that have issues seing this direction have a lack of understanding of what shapes human behaviour.
Would people collectivly decide what society should look like and do then? And would this mean an end to nations?
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I would do anything to make this happen.
After it happens I would order a genetic lab from the internet, clone myself 100 000 000 times, conquer the world.
Suck it. You are all slaves of me.
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On May 14 2012 04:44 Sea_Food wrote:
I would do anything to make this happen.
After it happens I would order a genetic lab from the internet, clone myself 100 000 000 times, conquer the world.
Suck it. You are all slaves of me.
But according DeliciousVP you'd have no incentive to rule others! What gives?!
In fact you'd have no motivation to do anything, because everything would apparently already be solved (by others, and by robots), who actually had no motivation to do so either. But it all makes sense right?
On May 14 2012 04:32 DeliCiousVP wrote:Show nested quote +Interesting, does the proposed system not include governments? Would the population as a whole rule or am i being stupid? What a goverment realy does is enforce laws and laws are realy problems that go unsolved, As we start solving our problems(laws) the goverment will be phased out more and more. This actually forces a very uncomftorable question where we start finding out what shapes human behaviour. and designs our society based on our findings. the ironic thing too is that most people that have issues seing this direction have a lack of understanding of what shapes human behaviour.
So you, obviously not having read anything on the subject, are about to tell us what shapes human behaviour. I'm all ears, go ahead and lecture us.
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EPT
