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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
If you make an uninformed post, or one that isn't relevant to the discussion, you will be moderated. If in doubt, don't post. |
On July 09 2013 00:42 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:41 zbedlam wrote:On July 09 2013 00:39 Kaitlin wrote:
Over the weekend, the greatest fighter in the world, Anderson Silva was knocked out with one punch (granted, more punches were thrown, but were irrelevant to the knockout). While he was knocked out, he was unable to defend himself and had he been in Zimmerman's situation, his attacker could have grabbed his weapon and shot him with it. After the fight, Silva had no marks to speak of to indicate any bodily injury. I don't think anyone is arguing that there is no chance that GZ's life wasn't in danger. And that is what gloves are for, real punches leave a lot more marks. What the gloves are for, is to protect the hands.
Partly.. yes, the wrists moreso. If you think that is all they are for though you are being silly.
edit: It's pretty clear by US law GZ is innocent, they are just trying to discredit eachother now to tug on the emotional strings of the jury.
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On July 09 2013 00:44 zbedlam wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:42 Kaitlin wrote:On July 09 2013 00:41 zbedlam wrote:On July 09 2013 00:39 Kaitlin wrote:
Over the weekend, the greatest fighter in the world, Anderson Silva was knocked out with one punch (granted, more punches were thrown, but were irrelevant to the knockout). While he was knocked out, he was unable to defend himself and had he been in Zimmerman's situation, his attacker could have grabbed his weapon and shot him with it. After the fight, Silva had no marks to speak of to indicate any bodily injury. I don't think anyone is arguing that there is no chance that GZ's life wasn't in danger. And that is what gloves are for, real punches leave a lot more marks. What the gloves are for, is to protect the hands. Partly.. yes, the wrists moreso. If you think that is all they are for though you are being silly.
Simply making the point that they aren't to reduce damage to the face, which was arguing that they are to prevent marks to the face.
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On July 08 2013 23:48 ComaDose wrote:
I just really dont like Zimmerman as a person. Is that still a valid possition? It's not like I hold any faith in the law, or enough law education to say he "murdered" someone, or it was "self defense". I don't really like Trayvon either though.
I just hate someone who would carry their gun around looking for suspicious people to follow. If it wasn't Trayvon that got murdered. How long do you think Zimmerman would have followed people around with his gun before someone got hurt? Not saying its illegal, your rights are safe, just saying its stupid.
It's hard to tell from the way you worded your post, but you are aware that he was part of the neighborhood watch? With or without a gun, it was his responsibility to look for suspicious people. One can argue how smart it was for him to be carrying a firearm, but I suppose depending on the neighborhood and how seriously you took your job as neighborhood watch, it makes sense to have a way to protect yourself, as is evident in this case if what Zimmerman and Good say is true.
What sort of question is that, by the way? No one can answer "how long" it would have taken for Zimmerman to hurt someone if he hadn't shot Trayvon Martin. That is a purely hypothetical question, and a perfectly valid answer is "forever." There is little, if anything, about Zimmerman that indicates if he hadn't gotten into this fight with Martin that it would have been some other kid the following week.
People keep saying that Zimmerman was stupid for following Martin with a gun, OK I get that. People don't seem to carry the same criticism for Trayvon for assaulting him and forcing him to use it, however. I get that we all want to have sympathy for the dead kid, but people like to spout the emotionally charged hypothetical that if George Zimmerman wasn't carrying a weapon that night, Trayvon would still be alive today. He would still be alive if he hadn't assaulted Zimmerman in the first place, as well.
I consider myself a pretty liberal person on a lot of issues, but self-defense is something I believe very strongly in. If some random person with unknown motives starts assaulting me, you better believe I'd blow him away without a second thought rather than risk my own death. People need to think about consequences before they assault people who may be carrying a gun, and Trayvon should have done the same.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On July 09 2013 00:41 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:15 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:12 Roflstompskin wrote:Agreed, the evidence has shown he was only punched once or twice and hit his head on the sidewalk once, twice if the side of his head hit. My biggest problem with this case is that, he says was hit a dozen or more times and had his head slammed again and again but it just doesn't look true. On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. ya. I think Zimmerman made his story better to make a better case for himself but I do think that Trayvon might've attacked him first out of fear and he panicked. My guess though. This witness is done lol. Not holding well at all for the defense. Except there is a witness that confirms Trayvon had the upper hand in the fight, was sitting on Zimmerman MMA style and continued to attack him after being told to stop by the witness(John Good). Nothing refutes that testimony and it is a strong case for self defense. Also, that part never makes it to the press. Most people don't know who John Good is.
ya, I'm aware of John's testimony back from when the witness coaching accusations against the prosecution came out. I was just noting that Zimmerman's account has changed or parts of it doesn't line up with what it seems happened. I'm not arguing that he wasn't punched or something.
On July 09 2013 00:14 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. Until John Good's testimony is rebuked; the stance is that a witness saw Trayvon beating up Zimmerman "MMA Style" and continued to do so after John Good yelled for him to stop. The screaming is still in contention (Zimmerman's story is that he is both screaming, being muffled, while being punched in the same area that he was muffled, all while not getting his blood on the hand punching/muffling said spot he says he was being punched/muffled) But until the John Good testimony gets a response, the story is that Trayvon was attacking.
ya John's testimony is pretty big help for the defense. The prosecution wasn't able to punch holes through it at all?
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On July 09 2013 00:46 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:44 zbedlam wrote:On July 09 2013 00:42 Kaitlin wrote:On July 09 2013 00:41 zbedlam wrote:On July 09 2013 00:39 Kaitlin wrote:
Over the weekend, the greatest fighter in the world, Anderson Silva was knocked out with one punch (granted, more punches were thrown, but were irrelevant to the knockout). While he was knocked out, he was unable to defend himself and had he been in Zimmerman's situation, his attacker could have grabbed his weapon and shot him with it. After the fight, Silva had no marks to speak of to indicate any bodily injury. I don't think anyone is arguing that there is no chance that GZ's life wasn't in danger. And that is what gloves are for, real punches leave a lot more marks. What the gloves are for, is to protect the hands. Partly.. yes, the wrists moreso. If you think that is all they are for though you are being silly. Simply making the point that they aren't to reduce damage to the face, which was arguing that they are to prevent marks to the face.
Sorry if I misunderstand you, but gloves are designed to reduce damage to both wrists, hands and the opponent to lengthen the fights and turn it into a more fatigue based sport where blows are traded often. Real fights without gloves where punches are thrown do not last very long at all and are bad for sport because the fights are shorter and the risk of permanent damage is much higher. Yes their specific purpose is not to reduce marking however it is a side effect.
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On July 09 2013 00:48 ZasZ. wrote:Show nested quote +On July 08 2013 23:48 ComaDose wrote:
I just really dont like Zimmerman as a person. Is that still a valid possition? It's not like I hold any faith in the law, or enough law education to say he "murdered" someone, or it was "self defense". I don't really like Trayvon either though.
I just hate someone who would carry their gun around looking for suspicious people to follow. If it wasn't Trayvon that got murdered. How long do you think Zimmerman would have followed people around with his gun before someone got hurt? Not saying its illegal, your rights are safe, just saying its stupid. It's hard to tell from the way you worded your post, but you are aware that he was part of the neighborhood watch? With or without a gun, it was his responsibility to look for suspicious people. One can argue how smart it was for him to be carrying a firearm, but I suppose depending on the neighborhood and how seriously you took your job as neighborhood watch, it makes sense to have a way to protect yourself, as is evident in this case if what Zimmerman and Good say is true. What sort of question is that, by the way? No one can answer "how long" it would have taken for Zimmerman to hurt someone if he hadn't shot Trayvon Martin. That is a purely hypothetical question, and a perfectly valid answer is "forever." There is little, if anything, about Zimmerman that indicates if he hadn't gotten into this fight with Martin that it would have been some other kid the following week. People keep saying that Zimmerman was stupid for following Martin with a gun, OK I get that. People don't seem to carry the same criticism for Trayvon for assaulting him and forcing him to use it, however. I get that we all want to have sympathy for the dead kid, but people like to spout the emotionally charged hypothetical that if George Zimmerman wasn't carrying a weapon that night, Trayvon would still be alive today. He would still be alive if he hadn't assaulted Zimmerman in the first place, as well. I consider myself a pretty liberal person on a lot of issues, but self-defense is something I believe very strongly in. If some random person with unknown motives starts assaulting me, you better believe I'd blow him away without a second thought rather than risk my own death. People need to think about consequences before they assault people who may be carrying a gun, and Trayvon should have done the same.
It's generous of you to summarize his actions as "look for suspicious people".
I do believe that eveyone (not batman) that follows suspicious people around in the dark with a gun on their days off will cause trouble.
I knew he had volunteered to keep an eye out on his community when i heard he went door to door asking neighboors to be on the lookout for "young black men who appear to be outsiders".
You say depending on how seriously you take it. I say its pretty obvious he takes it way too seriously.
I'm glad you get why it was stupid and I agree that trayvon attacking was at least as stupid too.
I still blame the person that created the situation for the situation.
And im still unsettled that people treat court like a place where right and wrong are decided.
EDIT: just to clarify "job as neighboorhood watch" = volunteer position with no responsibility or authority right?
maybe its different in Canada
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On July 09 2013 00:49 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:41 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 00:15 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:12 Roflstompskin wrote:Agreed, the evidence has shown he was only punched once or twice and hit his head on the sidewalk once, twice if the side of his head hit. My biggest problem with this case is that, he says was hit a dozen or more times and had his head slammed again and again but it just doesn't look true. On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. ya. I think Zimmerman made his story better to make a better case for himself but I do think that Trayvon might've attacked him first out of fear and he panicked. My guess though. This witness is done lol. Not holding well at all for the defense. Except there is a witness that confirms Trayvon had the upper hand in the fight, was sitting on Zimmerman MMA style and continued to attack him after being told to stop by the witness(John Good). Nothing refutes that testimony and it is a strong case for self defense. Also, that part never makes it to the press. Most people don't know who John Good is. ya, I'm aware of John's testimony back from when the witness coaching accusations against the prosecution came out. I was just noting that Zimmerman's account has changed or parts of it doesn't line up with what it seems happened. I'm not arguing that he wasn't punched or something. Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:14 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. Until John Good's testimony is rebuked; the stance is that a witness saw Trayvon beating up Zimmerman "MMA Style" and continued to do so after John Good yelled for him to stop. The screaming is still in contention (Zimmerman's story is that he is both screaming, being muffled, while being punched in the same area that he was muffled, all while not getting his blood on the hand punching/muffling said spot he says he was being punched/muffled) But until the John Good testimony gets a response, the story is that Trayvon was attacking. ya John's testimony is pretty big help for the defense. The prosecution wasn't able to punch holes through it at all?
They might during closing; but so far they haven't even poked it as far as I can tell.
The only thing the state proved with him was that no witness saw Trayvon's fist land on skin.
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On July 09 2013 00:49 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:41 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 00:15 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:12 Roflstompskin wrote:Agreed, the evidence has shown he was only punched once or twice and hit his head on the sidewalk once, twice if the side of his head hit. My biggest problem with this case is that, he says was hit a dozen or more times and had his head slammed again and again but it just doesn't look true. On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. ya. I think Zimmerman made his story better to make a better case for himself but I do think that Trayvon might've attacked him first out of fear and he panicked. My guess though. This witness is done lol. Not holding well at all for the defense. Except there is a witness that confirms Trayvon had the upper hand in the fight, was sitting on Zimmerman MMA style and continued to attack him after being told to stop by the witness(John Good). Nothing refutes that testimony and it is a strong case for self defense. Also, that part never makes it to the press. Most people don't know who John Good is. ya, I'm aware of John's testimony back from when the witness coaching accusations against the prosecution came out. I was just noting that Zimmerman's account has changed or parts of it doesn't line up with what it seems happened. I'm not arguing that he wasn't punched or something. Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:14 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. Until John Good's testimony is rebuked; the stance is that a witness saw Trayvon beating up Zimmerman "MMA Style" and continued to do so after John Good yelled for him to stop. The screaming is still in contention (Zimmerman's story is that he is both screaming, being muffled, while being punched in the same area that he was muffled, all while not getting his blood on the hand punching/muffling said spot he says he was being punched/muffled) But until the John Good testimony gets a response, the story is that Trayvon was attacking. ya John's testimony is pretty big help for the defense. The prosecution wasn't able to punch holes through it at all?
Nancy Grace? Is that you? All the changes in Zimmermans story are minor and are also to be expected. In the heat of the moment, memory gets skewed, you forget things, and the brain fills in the blanks for you with what you want to believe happened. I'd actually be more concerned if his story was exact every single time as that is usually a clear indicator of a well practiced liar/lie.
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On July 09 2013 01:09 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:49 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:41 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 00:15 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:12 Roflstompskin wrote:Agreed, the evidence has shown he was only punched once or twice and hit his head on the sidewalk once, twice if the side of his head hit. My biggest problem with this case is that, he says was hit a dozen or more times and had his head slammed again and again but it just doesn't look true. On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. ya. I think Zimmerman made his story better to make a better case for himself but I do think that Trayvon might've attacked him first out of fear and he panicked. My guess though. This witness is done lol. Not holding well at all for the defense. Except there is a witness that confirms Trayvon had the upper hand in the fight, was sitting on Zimmerman MMA style and continued to attack him after being told to stop by the witness(John Good). Nothing refutes that testimony and it is a strong case for self defense. Also, that part never makes it to the press. Most people don't know who John Good is. ya, I'm aware of John's testimony back from when the witness coaching accusations against the prosecution came out. I was just noting that Zimmerman's account has changed or parts of it doesn't line up with what it seems happened. I'm not arguing that he wasn't punched or something. On July 09 2013 00:14 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. Until John Good's testimony is rebuked; the stance is that a witness saw Trayvon beating up Zimmerman "MMA Style" and continued to do so after John Good yelled for him to stop. The screaming is still in contention (Zimmerman's story is that he is both screaming, being muffled, while being punched in the same area that he was muffled, all while not getting his blood on the hand punching/muffling said spot he says he was being punched/muffled) But until the John Good testimony gets a response, the story is that Trayvon was attacking. ya John's testimony is pretty big help for the defense. The prosecution wasn't able to punch holes through it at all? Nancy Grace? Is that you? All the changes in Zimmermans story are minor and are also to be expected. In the heat of the moment, memory gets skewed, you forget things, and the brain fills in the blanks for you with what you want to believe happened. I'd actually be more concerned if his story was exact every single time as that is usually a clear indicator of a well practiced liar/lie.
An inconsistent story is tautologically just an inconsistent story. Whether or not its from a liar is irrelevant. If a story gets too inconsistent--then you question its truth. When a story is understandably inconsistent, then you can assume distorted memory.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On July 09 2013 01:09 Dosey wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:49 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:41 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 00:15 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:12 Roflstompskin wrote:Agreed, the evidence has shown he was only punched once or twice and hit his head on the sidewalk once, twice if the side of his head hit. My biggest problem with this case is that, he says was hit a dozen or more times and had his head slammed again and again but it just doesn't look true. On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. ya. I think Zimmerman made his story better to make a better case for himself but I do think that Trayvon might've attacked him first out of fear and he panicked. My guess though. This witness is done lol. Not holding well at all for the defense. Except there is a witness that confirms Trayvon had the upper hand in the fight, was sitting on Zimmerman MMA style and continued to attack him after being told to stop by the witness(John Good). Nothing refutes that testimony and it is a strong case for self defense. Also, that part never makes it to the press. Most people don't know who John Good is. ya, I'm aware of John's testimony back from when the witness coaching accusations against the prosecution came out. I was just noting that Zimmerman's account has changed or parts of it doesn't line up with what it seems happened. I'm not arguing that he wasn't punched or something. On July 09 2013 00:14 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. Until John Good's testimony is rebuked; the stance is that a witness saw Trayvon beating up Zimmerman "MMA Style" and continued to do so after John Good yelled for him to stop. The screaming is still in contention (Zimmerman's story is that he is both screaming, being muffled, while being punched in the same area that he was muffled, all while not getting his blood on the hand punching/muffling said spot he says he was being punched/muffled) But until the John Good testimony gets a response, the story is that Trayvon was attacking. ya John's testimony is pretty big help for the defense. The prosecution wasn't able to punch holes through it at all? Nancy Grace? Is that you? All the changes in Zimmermans story are minor and are also to be expected. In the heat of the moment, memory gets skewed, you forget things, and the brain fills in the blanks for you with what you want to believe happened. I'd actually be more concerned if his story was exact every single time as that is usually a clear indicator of a well practiced liar/lie.
I don't even know who Nancy Grace is so you have no point there. Well, of course the story won't be the same and blanks will be filled it. I'm talking about the number of punches etc... Point is, I get a gut feeling that part of Zimmerman's story is fabricated and he's lying to make it look better. I've been following this case since I found this thread and have read/heard every single thing about it. Originally, I thought that it was 100% on Zimmerman but I realized that maybe it wasn't that clear cut. Point is, I think Zimmerman did feel his life was in danger but I really dislike the fact that parts of the story to me feel fabricated to make a better case. That and Trayvon losing his life is sad as well.
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On July 09 2013 01:22 BigFan wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:09 Dosey wrote:On July 09 2013 00:49 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:41 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 00:15 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:12 Roflstompskin wrote:Agreed, the evidence has shown he was only punched once or twice and hit his head on the sidewalk once, twice if the side of his head hit. My biggest problem with this case is that, he says was hit a dozen or more times and had his head slammed again and again but it just doesn't look true. On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. ya. I think Zimmerman made his story better to make a better case for himself but I do think that Trayvon might've attacked him first out of fear and he panicked. My guess though. This witness is done lol. Not holding well at all for the defense. Except there is a witness that confirms Trayvon had the upper hand in the fight, was sitting on Zimmerman MMA style and continued to attack him after being told to stop by the witness(John Good). Nothing refutes that testimony and it is a strong case for self defense. Also, that part never makes it to the press. Most people don't know who John Good is. ya, I'm aware of John's testimony back from when the witness coaching accusations against the prosecution came out. I was just noting that Zimmerman's account has changed or parts of it doesn't line up with what it seems happened. I'm not arguing that he wasn't punched or something. On July 09 2013 00:14 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. Until John Good's testimony is rebuked; the stance is that a witness saw Trayvon beating up Zimmerman "MMA Style" and continued to do so after John Good yelled for him to stop. The screaming is still in contention (Zimmerman's story is that he is both screaming, being muffled, while being punched in the same area that he was muffled, all while not getting his blood on the hand punching/muffling said spot he says he was being punched/muffled) But until the John Good testimony gets a response, the story is that Trayvon was attacking. ya John's testimony is pretty big help for the defense. The prosecution wasn't able to punch holes through it at all? Nancy Grace? Is that you? All the changes in Zimmermans story are minor and are also to be expected. In the heat of the moment, memory gets skewed, you forget things, and the brain fills in the blanks for you with what you want to believe happened. I'd actually be more concerned if his story was exact every single time as that is usually a clear indicator of a well practiced liar/lie. I don't even know who Nancy Grace is so you have no point there. Well, of course the story won't be the same and blanks will be filled it. I'm talking about the number of punches etc... Point is, I get a gut feeling that part of Zimmerman's story is fabricated and he's lying to make it look better. I've been following this case since I found this thread and have read/heard every single thing about it. Originally, I thought that it was 100% on Zimmerman but I realized that maybe it wasn't that clear cut. Point is, I think Zimmerman did feel his life was in danger but I really dislike the fact that parts of the story to me feel fabricated to make a better case. That and Trayvon losing his life is sad as well.
Is that a clear indication that Zimmerman is guilty of second-degree murder though?
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Not every punch Trayvon threw had to be a haymaker or leave marks, which could be why GZ remembers more than a few punches.
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On July 09 2013 01:26 Shady Sands wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:22 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 01:09 Dosey wrote:On July 09 2013 00:49 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:41 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 00:15 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:12 Roflstompskin wrote:Agreed, the evidence has shown he was only punched once or twice and hit his head on the sidewalk once, twice if the side of his head hit. My biggest problem with this case is that, he says was hit a dozen or more times and had his head slammed again and again but it just doesn't look true. On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. ya. I think Zimmerman made his story better to make a better case for himself but I do think that Trayvon might've attacked him first out of fear and he panicked. My guess though. This witness is done lol. Not holding well at all for the defense. Except there is a witness that confirms Trayvon had the upper hand in the fight, was sitting on Zimmerman MMA style and continued to attack him after being told to stop by the witness(John Good). Nothing refutes that testimony and it is a strong case for self defense. Also, that part never makes it to the press. Most people don't know who John Good is. ya, I'm aware of John's testimony back from when the witness coaching accusations against the prosecution came out. I was just noting that Zimmerman's account has changed or parts of it doesn't line up with what it seems happened. I'm not arguing that he wasn't punched or something. On July 09 2013 00:14 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. Until John Good's testimony is rebuked; the stance is that a witness saw Trayvon beating up Zimmerman "MMA Style" and continued to do so after John Good yelled for him to stop. The screaming is still in contention (Zimmerman's story is that he is both screaming, being muffled, while being punched in the same area that he was muffled, all while not getting his blood on the hand punching/muffling said spot he says he was being punched/muffled) But until the John Good testimony gets a response, the story is that Trayvon was attacking. ya John's testimony is pretty big help for the defense. The prosecution wasn't able to punch holes through it at all? Nancy Grace? Is that you? All the changes in Zimmermans story are minor and are also to be expected. In the heat of the moment, memory gets skewed, you forget things, and the brain fills in the blanks for you with what you want to believe happened. I'd actually be more concerned if his story was exact every single time as that is usually a clear indicator of a well practiced liar/lie. I don't even know who Nancy Grace is so you have no point there. Well, of course the story won't be the same and blanks will be filled it. I'm talking about the number of punches etc... Point is, I get a gut feeling that part of Zimmerman's story is fabricated and he's lying to make it look better. I've been following this case since I found this thread and have read/heard every single thing about it. Originally, I thought that it was 100% on Zimmerman but I realized that maybe it wasn't that clear cut. Point is, I think Zimmerman did feel his life was in danger but I really dislike the fact that parts of the story to me feel fabricated to make a better case. That and Trayvon losing his life is sad as well. Is that a clear indication that Zimmerman is guilty of second-degree murder though?
Pardon my intrusion to your question; but when he says,
Originally, I thought that it was 100% on Zimmerman but I realized that maybe it wasn't that clear cut.
Doesn't that answer your question?
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On July 09 2013 01:33 Ansinjunger wrote:
Not every punch Trayvon threw had to be a haymaker or leave marks, which could be why GZ remembers more than a few punches.
We only have proof of 1 punch
We have a witness who saw "many"
And we have a defendant who testifies "many"
The rest is speculation.
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On July 09 2013 01:08 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 00:48 ZasZ. wrote:On July 08 2013 23:48 ComaDose wrote:
I just really dont like Zimmerman as a person. Is that still a valid possition? It's not like I hold any faith in the law, or enough law education to say he "murdered" someone, or it was "self defense". I don't really like Trayvon either though.
I just hate someone who would carry their gun around looking for suspicious people to follow. If it wasn't Trayvon that got murdered. How long do you think Zimmerman would have followed people around with his gun before someone got hurt? Not saying its illegal, your rights are safe, just saying its stupid. It's hard to tell from the way you worded your post, but you are aware that he was part of the neighborhood watch? With or without a gun, it was his responsibility to look for suspicious people. One can argue how smart it was for him to be carrying a firearm, but I suppose depending on the neighborhood and how seriously you took your job as neighborhood watch, it makes sense to have a way to protect yourself, as is evident in this case if what Zimmerman and Good say is true. What sort of question is that, by the way? No one can answer "how long" it would have taken for Zimmerman to hurt someone if he hadn't shot Trayvon Martin. That is a purely hypothetical question, and a perfectly valid answer is "forever." There is little, if anything, about Zimmerman that indicates if he hadn't gotten into this fight with Martin that it would have been some other kid the following week. People keep saying that Zimmerman was stupid for following Martin with a gun, OK I get that. People don't seem to carry the same criticism for Trayvon for assaulting him and forcing him to use it, however. I get that we all want to have sympathy for the dead kid, but people like to spout the emotionally charged hypothetical that if George Zimmerman wasn't carrying a weapon that night, Trayvon would still be alive today. He would still be alive if he hadn't assaulted Zimmerman in the first place, as well. I consider myself a pretty liberal person on a lot of issues, but self-defense is something I believe very strongly in. If some random person with unknown motives starts assaulting me, you better believe I'd blow him away without a second thought rather than risk my own death. People need to think about consequences before they assault people who may be carrying a gun, and Trayvon should have done the same. It's generous of you to summarize his actions as "look for suspicious people". I do believe that eveyone (not batman) that follows suspicious people around in the dark with a gun on their days off will cause trouble.
Are they the ones causing trouble, or are the suspicious people who then assault them causing the trouble? It's sad that we've gotten to a point where you have the idea of a neighborhood fucking watch being impugned.
I knew he had volunteered to keep an eye out on his community when i heard he went door to door asking neighboors to be on the lookout for "young black men who appear to be outsiders"
You say depending on how seriously you take it. I say its pretty obvious he takes it way too seriously.
If there are a lot of young black men who are outsiders coming into your community and burglarizing homes and you decide to join the neighborhood watch, you might want to warn people to be on the lookout. Perfectly nice, peaceful communities have turned into war-zones before because no one cared enough to step up and try to stop it from happening.
I still blame the person that created the situation for the situation.
And im still unsettled that people treat court like a place where right and wrong are decided.
EDIT: just to clarify "job as neighboorhood watch" = volunteer position with no responsibility or authority right?
maybe its different in Canada
If Zimmerman's story is true, than Trayvon created the situation.
And yes, the neighborhood watch is not an authoritative position.
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On July 09 2013 01:35 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:33 Ansinjunger wrote:
Not every punch Trayvon threw had to be a haymaker or leave marks, which could be why GZ remembers more than a few punches. We only have proof of 1 punch We have a witness who saw "many" And we have a defendant who testifies "many" The rest is speculation.
I absolutely disagree that we only have proof of one punch. You are equating the testimony of one witness to be "proof". That is absolutely not the case.
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TLADT24920 Posts
On July 09 2013 01:34 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:26 Shady Sands wrote:On July 09 2013 01:22 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 01:09 Dosey wrote:On July 09 2013 00:49 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:41 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2013 00:15 BigFan wrote:On July 09 2013 00:12 Roflstompskin wrote:Agreed, the evidence has shown he was only punched once or twice and hit his head on the sidewalk once, twice if the side of his head hit. My biggest problem with this case is that, he says was hit a dozen or more times and had his head slammed again and again but it just doesn't look true. On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:
[quote]
It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. ya. I think Zimmerman made his story better to make a better case for himself but I do think that Trayvon might've attacked him first out of fear and he panicked. My guess though. This witness is done lol. Not holding well at all for the defense. Except there is a witness that confirms Trayvon had the upper hand in the fight, was sitting on Zimmerman MMA style and continued to attack him after being told to stop by the witness(John Good). Nothing refutes that testimony and it is a strong case for self defense. Also, that part never makes it to the press. Most people don't know who John Good is. ya, I'm aware of John's testimony back from when the witness coaching accusations against the prosecution came out. I was just noting that Zimmerman's account has changed or parts of it doesn't line up with what it seems happened. I'm not arguing that he wasn't punched or something. On July 09 2013 00:14 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 08 2013 23:50 BigFan wrote:On July 08 2013 23:41 woody60707 wrote:
Well the State just asked a witness if they wanted the voice they heard to be Zimmermans. How does that very question not tank Martin's mom's testimony? Did the state just gave up any notion to prove that voice could be Martin's? did the defense ask that same question to his mom? On July 08 2013 23:41 jeremycafe wrote:On July 08 2013 23:07 BigFan wrote:
hmm this double trigger can work for Zimmerman's side. Those gun questions and such are interesting to hear.
edit: man, that scream video, so chilling to listen to. So hard to tell who it is. Early on, it sounds like a young voice like Trayvon but later, it sounds older like Zimmerman >< It makes no sense at all to be Trayvon. Why the hell would he be screaming with such desperation as his is kicking someone's ass? To me, it is a joke it is even a question. The parents lying about the voice being Trayvon is the only reason it is in question. Looking forward to the father being asked about his statement of it not being his son. But I am sure they will find some excuse to make it irrelevant. neither you or me know who's voice it is and neither family members of Zimmerman or Trayvon can be trusted either since this is a trial. Likewise, we can't be sure with certainty that Trayvon was kicking his ass either. Not saying that he didn't fight with Zimmerman or beat him up, just that we don't know just how much. edit: this defense witness is doing pretty badly imo. Until John Good's testimony is rebuked; the stance is that a witness saw Trayvon beating up Zimmerman "MMA Style" and continued to do so after John Good yelled for him to stop. The screaming is still in contention (Zimmerman's story is that he is both screaming, being muffled, while being punched in the same area that he was muffled, all while not getting his blood on the hand punching/muffling said spot he says he was being punched/muffled) But until the John Good testimony gets a response, the story is that Trayvon was attacking. ya John's testimony is pretty big help for the defense. The prosecution wasn't able to punch holes through it at all? Nancy Grace? Is that you? All the changes in Zimmermans story are minor and are also to be expected. In the heat of the moment, memory gets skewed, you forget things, and the brain fills in the blanks for you with what you want to believe happened. I'd actually be more concerned if his story was exact every single time as that is usually a clear indicator of a well practiced liar/lie. I don't even know who Nancy Grace is so you have no point there. Well, of course the story won't be the same and blanks will be filled it. I'm talking about the number of punches etc... Point is, I get a gut feeling that part of Zimmerman's story is fabricated and he's lying to make it look better. I've been following this case since I found this thread and have read/heard every single thing about it. Originally, I thought that it was 100% on Zimmerman but I realized that maybe it wasn't that clear cut. Point is, I think Zimmerman did feel his life was in danger but I really dislike the fact that parts of the story to me feel fabricated to make a better case. That and Trayvon losing his life is sad as well. Is that a clear indication that Zimmerman is guilty of second-degree murder though? Pardon my intrusion to your question; but when he says, Show nested quote +Originally, I thought that it was 100% on Zimmerman but I realized that maybe it wasn't that clear cut. Doesn't that answer your question?
he probably missed that part lol but to answer his question, no, lying is not a clear indication that Zimmerman is guilty of second-degree murder. I would just prefer that he be fully upfront about what happened and let the court decide on what the appropriate course of action is than lying about it and hoping to get off easier. Keep in mind this assumes that he lied and it's purely my opinion 
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On July 09 2013 01:38 sc2superfan101 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:08 ComaDose wrote:On July 09 2013 00:48 ZasZ. wrote:On July 08 2013 23:48 ComaDose wrote:
I just really dont like Zimmerman as a person. Is that still a valid possition? It's not like I hold any faith in the law, or enough law education to say he "murdered" someone, or it was "self defense". I don't really like Trayvon either though.
I just hate someone who would carry their gun around looking for suspicious people to follow. If it wasn't Trayvon that got murdered. How long do you think Zimmerman would have followed people around with his gun before someone got hurt? Not saying its illegal, your rights are safe, just saying its stupid. It's hard to tell from the way you worded your post, but you are aware that he was part of the neighborhood watch? With or without a gun, it was his responsibility to look for suspicious people. One can argue how smart it was for him to be carrying a firearm, but I suppose depending on the neighborhood and how seriously you took your job as neighborhood watch, it makes sense to have a way to protect yourself, as is evident in this case if what Zimmerman and Good say is true. What sort of question is that, by the way? No one can answer "how long" it would have taken for Zimmerman to hurt someone if he hadn't shot Trayvon Martin. That is a purely hypothetical question, and a perfectly valid answer is "forever." There is little, if anything, about Zimmerman that indicates if he hadn't gotten into this fight with Martin that it would have been some other kid the following week. People keep saying that Zimmerman was stupid for following Martin with a gun, OK I get that. People don't seem to carry the same criticism for Trayvon for assaulting him and forcing him to use it, however. I get that we all want to have sympathy for the dead kid, but people like to spout the emotionally charged hypothetical that if George Zimmerman wasn't carrying a weapon that night, Trayvon would still be alive today. He would still be alive if he hadn't assaulted Zimmerman in the first place, as well. I consider myself a pretty liberal person on a lot of issues, but self-defense is something I believe very strongly in. If some random person with unknown motives starts assaulting me, you better believe I'd blow him away without a second thought rather than risk my own death. People need to think about consequences before they assault people who may be carrying a gun, and Trayvon should have done the same. It's generous of you to summarize his actions as "look for suspicious people". I do believe that eveyone (not batman) that follows suspicious people around in the dark with a gun on their days off will cause trouble. Are they the ones causing trouble, or are the suspicious people who then assault them causing the trouble? It's sad that we've gotten to a point where you have the idea of a neighborhood fucking watch being impugned. Show nested quote +I knew he had volunteered to keep an eye out on his community when i heard he went door to door asking neighboors to be on the lookout for "young black men who appear to be outsiders"
You say depending on how seriously you take it. I say its pretty obvious he takes it way too seriously. If there are a lot of young black men who are outsiders coming into your community and burglarizing homes and you decide to join the neighborhood watch, you might want to warn people to be on the lookout. Perfectly nice, peaceful communities have turned into war-zones before because no one cared enough to step up and try to stop it from happening. Show nested quote +I still blame the person that created the situation for the situation.
And im still unsettled that people treat court like a place where right and wrong are decided.
EDIT: just to clarify "job as neighboorhood watch" = volunteer position with no responsibility or authority right?
maybe its different in Canada If Zimmerman's story is true, than Trayvon created the situation. And yes, the neighborhood watch is not an authoritative position.
Pretty easy to get the idea of a neighboorhood watch being impugned when they are shooting members of said neighboorhood. sad indeed.
No Zimmerman obviously still created the situation, like, by being the one to create the situation. Trayvon was just reacted equally stupid. (may he rip)
And I disagree with your justification for racial profiling but it doesn't seem pertinent.
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On July 09 2013 01:39 Kaitlin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:35 Thieving Magpie wrote:On July 09 2013 01:33 Ansinjunger wrote:
Not every punch Trayvon threw had to be a haymaker or leave marks, which could be why GZ remembers more than a few punches. We only have proof of 1 punch We have a witness who saw "many" And we have a defendant who testifies "many" The rest is speculation. I absolutely disagree that we only have proof of one punch. You are equating the testimony of one witness to be "proof". That is absolutely not the case.
We have medical proof of 1 punch, many could have also come afterwards but we don't have evidence for it. The only evidence we have is that at least 1 punch was thrown, with other possible punches that followed not leaving evidence.
We also have 1 witness who saw punching.
We then have the defendants testimony.
1 evidence, 2 testimonies. The rest are assumptions for now.
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On July 09 2013 01:08 ComaDose wrote:
I do believe that eveyone (not batman) that follows suspicious people around in the dark with a gun on their days off will cause trouble.
Batman doesn't use guns.
Honestly, minor inconsistencies in a story are expected. No one remembers every detail, so there will obviously be some mistakes.
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EPT
