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This is a sensitive and complex issue, please do not make comments without first reading the facts, which are cataloged in the OP.
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On July 09 2013 01:50 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:38 sc2superfan101 wrote:On July 09 2013 01:08 ComaDose wrote:On July 09 2013 00:48 ZasZ. wrote:On July 08 2013 23:48 ComaDose wrote:
I just really dont like Zimmerman as a person. Is that still a valid possition? It's not like I hold any faith in the law, or enough law education to say he "murdered" someone, or it was "self defense". I don't really like Trayvon either though.
I just hate someone who would carry their gun around looking for suspicious people to follow. If it wasn't Trayvon that got murdered. How long do you think Zimmerman would have followed people around with his gun before someone got hurt? Not saying its illegal, your rights are safe, just saying its stupid. It's hard to tell from the way you worded your post, but you are aware that he was part of the neighborhood watch? With or without a gun, it was his responsibility to look for suspicious people. One can argue how smart it was for him to be carrying a firearm, but I suppose depending on the neighborhood and how seriously you took your job as neighborhood watch, it makes sense to have a way to protect yourself, as is evident in this case if what Zimmerman and Good say is true. What sort of question is that, by the way? No one can answer "how long" it would have taken for Zimmerman to hurt someone if he hadn't shot Trayvon Martin. That is a purely hypothetical question, and a perfectly valid answer is "forever." There is little, if anything, about Zimmerman that indicates if he hadn't gotten into this fight with Martin that it would have been some other kid the following week. People keep saying that Zimmerman was stupid for following Martin with a gun, OK I get that. People don't seem to carry the same criticism for Trayvon for assaulting him and forcing him to use it, however. I get that we all want to have sympathy for the dead kid, but people like to spout the emotionally charged hypothetical that if George Zimmerman wasn't carrying a weapon that night, Trayvon would still be alive today. He would still be alive if he hadn't assaulted Zimmerman in the first place, as well. I consider myself a pretty liberal person on a lot of issues, but self-defense is something I believe very strongly in. If some random person with unknown motives starts assaulting me, you better believe I'd blow him away without a second thought rather than risk my own death. People need to think about consequences before they assault people who may be carrying a gun, and Trayvon should have done the same. It's generous of you to summarize his actions as "look for suspicious people". I do believe that eveyone (not batman) that follows suspicious people around in the dark with a gun on their days off will cause trouble. Are they the ones causing trouble, or are the suspicious people who then assault them causing the trouble? It's sad that we've gotten to a point where you have the idea of a neighborhood fucking watch being impugned. I knew he had volunteered to keep an eye out on his community when i heard he went door to door asking neighboors to be on the lookout for "young black men who appear to be outsiders"
You say depending on how seriously you take it. I say its pretty obvious he takes it way too seriously. If there are a lot of young black men who are outsiders coming into your community and burglarizing homes and you decide to join the neighborhood watch, you might want to warn people to be on the lookout. Perfectly nice, peaceful communities have turned into war-zones before because no one cared enough to step up and try to stop it from happening. I still blame the person that created the situation for the situation.
And im still unsettled that people treat court like a place where right and wrong are decided.
EDIT: just to clarify "job as neighboorhood watch" = volunteer position with no responsibility or authority right?
maybe its different in Canada If Zimmerman's story is true, than Trayvon created the situation. And yes, the neighborhood watch is not an authoritative position. Pretty easy to get the idea of a neighboorhood watch being impugned when they are shooting members of said neighboorhood. sad indeed.
Well, first (and this is a relatively minor point), Trayvon Martin wasn't technically a member of the neighborhood. He was visiting his father's fiance's house. Second, that's like saying the cops are horrible because they shot someone and neglecting to mention that the person was beating on them.
No Zimmerman obviously still created the situation, like, by being the one to create the situation. Trayvon was just reacted equally stupid. (may he rip)
According to the defense, there was no "situation" until Trayvon created it by assaulting Zimmerman.
And I disagree with your justification for racial profiling but it doesn't seem pertinent.
I would say it's pretty pertinent as the entirety of the prosecutions case is based on Zimmerman being a racist.
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On July 09 2013 01:50 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:38 sc2superfan101 wrote:On July 09 2013 01:08 ComaDose wrote:On July 09 2013 00:48 ZasZ. wrote:On July 08 2013 23:48 ComaDose wrote:
I just really dont like Zimmerman as a person. Is that still a valid possition? It's not like I hold any faith in the law, or enough law education to say he "murdered" someone, or it was "self defense". I don't really like Trayvon either though.
I just hate someone who would carry their gun around looking for suspicious people to follow. If it wasn't Trayvon that got murdered. How long do you think Zimmerman would have followed people around with his gun before someone got hurt? Not saying its illegal, your rights are safe, just saying its stupid. It's hard to tell from the way you worded your post, but you are aware that he was part of the neighborhood watch? With or without a gun, it was his responsibility to look for suspicious people. One can argue how smart it was for him to be carrying a firearm, but I suppose depending on the neighborhood and how seriously you took your job as neighborhood watch, it makes sense to have a way to protect yourself, as is evident in this case if what Zimmerman and Good say is true. What sort of question is that, by the way? No one can answer "how long" it would have taken for Zimmerman to hurt someone if he hadn't shot Trayvon Martin. That is a purely hypothetical question, and a perfectly valid answer is "forever." There is little, if anything, about Zimmerman that indicates if he hadn't gotten into this fight with Martin that it would have been some other kid the following week. People keep saying that Zimmerman was stupid for following Martin with a gun, OK I get that. People don't seem to carry the same criticism for Trayvon for assaulting him and forcing him to use it, however. I get that we all want to have sympathy for the dead kid, but people like to spout the emotionally charged hypothetical that if George Zimmerman wasn't carrying a weapon that night, Trayvon would still be alive today. He would still be alive if he hadn't assaulted Zimmerman in the first place, as well. I consider myself a pretty liberal person on a lot of issues, but self-defense is something I believe very strongly in. If some random person with unknown motives starts assaulting me, you better believe I'd blow him away without a second thought rather than risk my own death. People need to think about consequences before they assault people who may be carrying a gun, and Trayvon should have done the same. It's generous of you to summarize his actions as "look for suspicious people". I do believe that eveyone (not batman) that follows suspicious people around in the dark with a gun on their days off will cause trouble. Are they the ones causing trouble, or are the suspicious people who then assault them causing the trouble? It's sad that we've gotten to a point where you have the idea of a neighborhood fucking watch being impugned. I knew he had volunteered to keep an eye out on his community when i heard he went door to door asking neighboors to be on the lookout for "young black men who appear to be outsiders"
You say depending on how seriously you take it. I say its pretty obvious he takes it way too seriously. If there are a lot of young black men who are outsiders coming into your community and burglarizing homes and you decide to join the neighborhood watch, you might want to warn people to be on the lookout. Perfectly nice, peaceful communities have turned into war-zones before because no one cared enough to step up and try to stop it from happening. I still blame the person that created the situation for the situation.
And im still unsettled that people treat court like a place where right and wrong are decided.
EDIT: just to clarify "job as neighboorhood watch" = volunteer position with no responsibility or authority right?
maybe its different in Canada If Zimmerman's story is true, than Trayvon created the situation. And yes, the neighborhood watch is not an authoritative position. Pretty easy to get the idea of a neighboorhood watch being impugned when they are shooting members of said neighboorhood. sad indeed. No Zimmerman obviously still created the situation, like, by being the one to create the situation. Trayvon was just reacted equally stupid. (may he rip) And I disagree with your justification for racial profiling but it doesn't seem pertinent.
It depends what you consider a "situation." To me, the situation was only created once someone performed an illegal act. No matter how stupid or ill-conceived it may have been, it was not illegal for Zimmerman to follow Trayvon that night, and it was not illegal for him to be carrying a gun. Trayvon Martin committed a felony by assaulting George Zimmerman, which is what I would call creating the situation that resulted in his death.
Yes, neighborhood watch is a volunteer position with no authority but I would call someone a bad neighborhood watch if they felt they had no responsibility. If there was a history of break-ins, and he saw a suspicious person, it is his responsibility as neighborhood watch to make sure nothing fishy is going on. Most people would call the cops, but people are right when they say calling the cops to report a suspicious individual on foot usually accomplishes nothing since it takes them a while to arrive at the scene, if they do at all. He would have gotten a much faster police reaction if he had followed Trayvon and saw him break into someone's house, and he likely would have backed off and gotten back into his truck if he had seen him enter his own home. Obviously neither of those outcomes happened due to the altercation, but those are valid justifications for following someone you think is suspicious. It's certainly better than calling the cops, having nothing happen, and then find out that your friend had their house broken into that same night.
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On July 09 2013 01:56 LegalLord wrote:
Batman doesn't use guns.
But his motorcycle does!
![[image loading]](http://weknowmemes.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/batman-logic.jpg)
User was warned for this post
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can someone summarize the witnesses this morning? it looks like his parents went, and who are the others?
thanks.
edit: those may not be his parents, lol.
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It was a parade of George's friends testifying that they recognize the screams for help as coming from George.
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thanks.
i guess the defense is going to swamp the prosecutor with witnesses, and then say "we had 15 witnesses say it was zimmerman; they had two and they were both family."
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Also the fact that the defense witnesses all seemed like normal good people, mostly articulate and polite, so they can by association speak of George Zimmerman's character since they all affirmed their friendship with him.
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On July 09 2013 02:37 Microchaton wrote:
Also the fact that the defense witnesses all seemed like normal good people, mostly articulate and polite, so they can by association speak of George Zimmerman's character since they all affirmed their friendship with him.
Yeah, a few respectable positions too. Air marshall and retired military.
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defense calling the cops back to the stand to give the prosecutor another reaming.
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The defense attorney's voice is very soothing.
It makes me want to go to sleep.
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dang just got back who was that woman leaving with the badge necklace?
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On July 09 2013 01:56 LegalLord wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2013 01:08 ComaDose wrote:
I do believe that eveyone (not batman) that follows suspicious people around in the dark with a gun on their days off will cause trouble. Batman doesn't use guns. Honestly, minor inconsistencies in a story are expected. No one remembers every detail, so there will obviously be some mistakes.
Beyond the minor inconsistencies there are pretty huge inconsistencies between when the 911 operator told GZ he didn't need to follow and when/how GZ says the conflict arose.
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Discrediting the idea that Mr. Martin hadn't heard the 911 before hearing it played at the Mayor's office. He hasn't testified to this yet, but Trayvon's mother addressed this. I'm not sure on what exactly was testified to, but I was under the belief that according to testimony, Mr. Martin had not heard the 911 call before the mayor's office,which obviously we now know not to be correct.
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On July 09 2013 02:47 mishimaBeef wrote:
dang just got back who was that woman leaving with the badge necklace?
One of the detectives on the case. Doris Singleton.
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So now it's just a mop up, unless something unforseen happens. I'm still not really convinced of GZ's innocence or guilt, since no witness or piece of evidence could really give a clear hint as to what really happened. (As far as I was able to follow the case.) He should therefore not be sentenced to guilty.
His and his wive's behavior regarding their financial status etc. however should be punished somehow. (Again: as far as I was able to follow it.)
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On July 09 2013 02:50 Junichi wrote:
So now it's just a mop up, unless something unforseen happens. I'm still not really convinced of GZ's innocence or guilt, since no witness or piece of evidence could really give a clear hint as to what really happened. (As far as I was able to follow the case.) He should therefore not be sentenced to guilty.
His and his wive's behavior regarding their financial status etc. however should be punished somehow. (Again: as far as I was able to follow it.)
only his wife can be punished; zimmerman didnt make a statement under oath.
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Punishing his wife would be pretty fucking petty imo.
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How long ago did they stop swearing on bibles just curious? Or is that just a Florida thing?
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EPT
