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On April 23 2012 01:00 SiroKO wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 00:56 MilesTeg wrote:On April 22 2012 23:28 SiroKO wrote:On April 22 2012 21:51 Macpo wrote:On April 21 2012 03:04 SiroKO wrote:
I believe there's something in between accepting hundreds of thousands of immigrants each single year who rapidly replace the native population (genocide by substitution), and "kicking the arabs out" or the brutal mass murdering of Untermenschen (direct genocide ala Nazism).
Do you really mean having immigrants in your country makes you feel victim of a "genocide by substitution" ? Because that is a deeply paranoid perception of reality... in what sense is that a genocide? Do you feel threatened when not everybody is doing things your way? You know, what would happen if France sent back immigrants to their country (and we should ask, up to what point? cause we all are coming from immigration, in a way or another)? well their would a significant economic and demographic decline of France, because immigrants are workers (occasionally doing the harder jobs others won't do, like cleaning up your garbage) ; and because they spend their money in France; and because they add up to the population... I know for a fact that 50% of the new-borns in the "Ile de France" (region of Paris) are of African origin. This process can be called a population replacement if you prefer, but it is a fact and whether or not it is paranoid is a matter of subjective opinion. I don't feel threatened when not everybody is doing things my way, but when it is an increasing part of the population which also happened to be driven by anti-French sentiment, then it starts to worry me a bit. The FN does not want "kicking the immigrants out" nor closing borders and ethnic purity. It supports the regularization of 10000 immigrants per year. Besides, all the world nationalities are represented in France, with only a few causing problems. So let's be specific, and cut the hypocritical cr*p about "immigrants", like they were forming some kind of united entity... If you think that "immigrant" is a pertinent word, tell me what's common between a Chinese prostitute, an Algerian student, an Indian astrophysician, and a polygamist Malian imam... They are certain immigrants causing trouble, and these immigrants are regularized because of very specific rules (droit du sol : right of the land, regroupement familial : familial gathering) being forced on us because of european/international conventions. Isn't it amazing the amount of stuff one can pull out of his ass... Once again the rectum proves it is the biggest, wildest, most wonderful source of information. Especially when it is fueled by fear and ignorance. There you have your "rectum", an official and scientific report. http://www.scribd.com/doc/31803808/Depistage-Neonatal-Drepanocytose", il est effectué chez les nouveau-nés dont les parents appartiennent à un groupe à risque pour cette maladie (essentiellement Afri-que, Antilles et Maghreb)."
Translation : are tested : the new-borns who have a parent belonging to a risk group (mainly Africa, Antilles, Maghreb).Now you can try pretending there's this huge Greek community that no one talks about and who get tested too.
Hey, simple question : do you know that ONE parent doesn't mean BOTH parents ? There are a LOT of mixed blood in France, you don't call them "africans" like you do.
Please, go away from this thread. This is not it's topic.
Btw, I'm saddened by the amount of people who voted Le Pen. But since they probably didn't want to vote Sarkozy, it was the only choice for them, so I believe she doesn't represent 20% of France hopefully.
@ Enearde : you would be surprised of the amount of 18-25 voting far right.
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On April 23 2012 03:17 Kukaracha wrote:
Oh yeah, prepare for a xenophobic shitstorm to secure far-right votes.
Le Pen would be really dumb not to call for a Sarkozy vote, too. The Senate is dominated by the left, if the president and the assembly are too then the whole government will be against her.
It's much more complicated than that, she always try (and her father) to avoid asking the people voting for them to support any other candidate, they try to secure them xenophobic people for them self which is smart, and you can see it here they kept them and added around 4-5 % in five years
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On April 23 2012 00:16 Kukaracha wrote:
I live in Bourg-la-Reine, in the southern suburb of Paris. It's next to Bagneux, Sceaux, and Antony.
The only truth in what Siroko says is that a great deal of violence comes from people of African origins who live in the cités. However, I adressed this earlier : while there is a small cultural factor, these places themselves condition individuals to violent and criminal behaviours. And as I learned first hand, those gehttos are the first - and often last - stop when you come to France. And when I say first-hand, it's because I actually got there when I was a kid.
First day of school, I gpt beat up by girls. Second day of school, I had to stand up for myself and become friends with a group of wannabe thugs. Our main and only available game was to fight each other. What stems from this, in your opinion?
Things such as a higher suspicion towards certain categories of people are only common sense, backed by hidden numbers. Why can't we showcase those numbers and talk openly about them? Because of people like Siroko who lack the objectivity and the intellecual tools to analyse them.
Thanks for sharing. This is what people need to hear because this is basically what's going on. I agree with you.
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On April 23 2012 03:27 FaRess wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 03:17 Kukaracha wrote:
Oh yeah, prepare for a xenophobic shitstorm to secure far-right votes.
Le Pen would be really dumb not to call for a Sarkozy vote, too. The Senate is dominated by the left, if the president and the assembly are too then the whole government will be against her. It's much more complicated than that, she always try (and her father) to avoid asking the people voting for them to support any other candidate, they try to secure them xenophobic people for them self which is smart, and you can see it here they kept them and added around 4-5 % in five years
The immigration policies proposed by Marine le Pen are the ones actually being applied in Tunisia, and in the whole Maghreb.
So, if Marine le Pen is proposing xenophobic policies, that makes your whole country predominantly xenophobic as well.
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Come on, she's clearly xenophobic. But in 5years, she'll be nowhere near this score as hopefully, the crisis will be gone and extremist tend to fade when everything doesnt go wrong.
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Just a fyi, big part of my family gathered here, and while most of them voted for various left-wing candidates (eva Joly, Mélanchon...), everybody is going to vote Sarkozy on the 2nd vote, because everybody agrees that Hollande would be a catastrophic president, even though it's pissing them off big time to have to vote for Nico. I'm pretty sure a lot of over "leftist" voters would agree with that too, so don't expect all those "left" votes to necessarily become votes for Hollande in 2 weeks.
Because of that, I think Sarkozy has very, very high chances of getting re-elected. 90+%
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On April 23 2012 03:37 Microchaton wrote:
Just a fyi, big part of my family gathered here, and while most of them voted for various left-wing candidates (eva Joly, Mélanchon...), everybody is going to vote Sarkozy on the 2nd vote, because everybody agrees that Hollande would be a catastrophic president, even though it's pissing them off big time to have to vote for Nico. I'm pretty sure a lot of over "leftist" voters would agree with that too, so don't expect all those "left" votes to necessarily become votes for Hollande in 2 weeks.
Because of that, I think Sarkozy has very, very high chances of getting re-elected. 90+%
yup I mean how can sarkozy loose if your family is voting for him !!!!! 
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Now im afraid that Sarkozy can be president 2 time because right side got clearly more vote than left side, I hope all those Marine Le Pen vote were for just trolling since we know there will be Hollande/Sarkozy win
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On April 23 2012 03:23 Teton wrote:
Le Pen 20%. wtf.
Same, I'm so disappointed. I guess I won't be coming back to France as early as I expected.
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To me Bayrou seems like the best candidate, but I guess d'Estaings reign was a long time ago.
Sarkozy does not appeal to me in the slightest. He seems far too "dirty" (too good at representing anyone but the voters...)
Hollande has that crazy notion that the retirement-age should be reduced from one of the lowest in EU to what it was before. He probably cannot just let it be after the election and it is probably one of the primary reasons he will be elected. Economically it is just too expensive for France and for EU since raising taxes is not a good medicine for creating growth.
Going against the strict austerity pact in EU is however a good idea. It needs to be relaxed and not have the "if we see an economic crisis (whatever that means) this pact is worth less than the paper it is written on"-clauses.
Having Merkel participate in a foreign election is not only inappropriate, it is completely unacceptable and voting in spite of her participation would be something I can see the sense in.
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On April 23 2012 03:37 Microchaton wrote:
Just a fyi, big part of my family gathered here, and while most of them voted for various left-wing candidates (eva Joly, Mélanchon...), everybody is going to vote Sarkozy on the 2nd vote, because everybody agrees that Hollande would be a catastrophic president, even though it's pissing them off big time to have to vote for Nico. I'm pretty sure a lot of over "leftist" voters would agree with that too, so don't expect all those "left" votes to necessarily become votes for Hollande in 2 weeks.
Because of that, I think Sarkozy has very, very high chances of getting re-elected. 90+%
This is profoundly idiotic. People don't trust him because he doesn't look tough.
Let's ponder this for a second.
He doesn't look tough.
Well, I for one do not fucking care. I want a president with a strong economical program, endorsed by 40 brilliant economists in a Le Monde open letter. I want someone who can bring the res publica back on tracks, because our Republic is not all glitter and gold. We don't like spotlights, we don't like the nonsensical noise of "politic" shows.
We want ideas, we want a stern, competent government. The time for cheering is past, didn't you know?
As for Le Pen being such a high score among young people, well, Le Monde has received strong criticism from neutral watchdogs, simply because de sample is too small (around 200 people).
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On April 23 2012 03:43 FaRess wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2012 03:37 Microchaton wrote:
Just a fyi, big part of my family gathered here, and while most of them voted for various left-wing candidates (eva Joly, Mélanchon...), everybody is going to vote Sarkozy on the 2nd vote, because everybody agrees that Hollande would be a catastrophic president, even though it's pissing them off big time to have to vote for Nico. I'm pretty sure a lot of over "leftist" voters would agree with that too, so don't expect all those "left" votes to necessarily become votes for Hollande in 2 weeks.
Because of that, I think Sarkozy has very, very high chances of getting re-elected. 90+% yup I mean how can sarkozy loose if your family is voting for him !!!!!
His point was that people who voted to the left but not for Hollande will vote for Sarkozy basically because they feel that Hollande is incapable of being a good president. That was his point.
We'll see what'll happen.
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On April 23 2012 03:52 endy wrote:Same, I'm so disappointed. I guess I won't be coming back to France as early as I expected.
A huge part of those vote were for trolling like what happen on 2002 where Le pen go to the final round, french people like to vote for the fun on the first round, foreigners will always be welcome on our country
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^ delusional. 20% of the population doesn't "troll" (stop using that word for no reason for fuck's sake). For your second sentence... Guess we'll see about that. Why do you think you're entitled to say that ?
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On April 23 2012 04:05 Microchaton wrote:
^ delusional. 20% of the population doesn't "troll" (stop using that word for no reason for fuck's sake). For your second sentence... Guess we'll see about that. Why do you think you're entitled to say that ?
I just mean since they know who will be on the final round most of the FN vote were more for pushing an idea more than put a president, on 2002 FN were totaly doomed on the final round because most of the first round vote were not serious
Excuse my english ^^
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On April 23 2012 03:37 Microchaton wrote:
Just a fyi, big part of my family gathered here, and while most of them voted for various left-wing candidates (eva Joly, Mélanchon...), everybody is going to vote Sarkozy on the 2nd vote, because everybody agrees that Hollande would be a catastrophic president, even though it's pissing them off big time to have to vote for Nico. I'm pretty sure a lot of over "leftist" voters would agree with that too, so don't expect all those "left" votes to necessarily become votes for Hollande in 2 weeks.
Because of that, I think Sarkozy has very, very high chances of getting re-elected. 90+%
how can you vote sarkozy if you have voted either for Melenchon or Joly. its just a pure nonsense or you are a pro right elector...
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I'm a bit confused, why is it that people voting for left-wing candidates other than Hollande are likely to vote for Sarkozy in the second round? Wouldn't it make more sense to just not vote in the second round rather than getting 5 more years of a president you don't like?
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On April 23 2012 04:19 Attican wrote:
I'm a bit confused, why is it that people voting for left-wing candidates other than Hollande are likely to vote for Sarkozy in the second round? Wouldn't it make more sense to just not vote in the second round rather than getting 5 more years of a president you don't like?
Of course people who voted for trotskyst (sp?) candidates are going to vote for the socialist candidate in two weeks. The confusion comes from some guy claiming the opposite a few posts above, but rest assured that you are saner than he is.
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On April 23 2012 03:37 Microchaton wrote:
Just a fyi, big part of my family gathered here, and while most of them voted for various left-wing candidates (eva Joly, Mélanchon...), everybody is going to vote Sarkozy on the 2nd vote, because everybody agrees that Hollande would be a catastrophic president, even though it's pissing them off big time to have to vote for Nico. I'm pretty sure a lot of over "leftist" voters would agree with that too, so don't expect all those "left" votes to necessarily become votes for Hollande in 2 weeks.
Because of that, I think Sarkozy has very, very high chances of getting re-elected. 90+%
Just fyi, far more people above all don't want Sarkozy to get reelected :p Be them from right, far right, center, left, or far left. Where do you think the 20% come from ? All those guys won't vote for Sarkozy either lol. Maybe like 13% max. Polls were showing 1/3 of Le Pen electors voting for Hollande in May. Granted, polls fucked up. But my belief would be like 10% sarko, 4% hollande, 6% not voting at all.
I have heard nothing of far leftists voting sarkozy except you lol. 90%+ of melenchon electors said they would vote hollande, and EELV have an agreement so it should be the same here.
90% ? I think he has more like a 30% win chance... If he is extremely good in the next two weeks, or just lucky.
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You're thinking elections in terms of absolute. That people belong to "the left wing" or "the right wing" or "the extreme right" and vote there. That's partly the case in the US, but not really in France. A lot of people vote for candidates over general political views. A lot of people who voted for various candidates would have voted for DSK if he ran instead of Hollande, same thing for Juppé and Sarkozy, for instance. The exact same thing happened in the last election with Segolene Royal and Sarkozy. A lot of people who usually vote to the left just couldn't bear the idea of having Royal in power. I certainly did not. Holland is certainly slightly less terrible as a potential president, but only slightly. Again, I despise Sarkozy and am deeply disappointed in most everything he did during his mandate. I just cannot see Holland doing anything else than completely ruining everything even more.
Think carefully about who you'd rather not have at the head of your country, considering that their programs obviously don't reflect what they will (/be able to) do once in power.
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EPT
