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Girl of 12 "born a killer" - Page 8

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Mental Union
Profile Joined September 2011
United States29 Posts
February 02 2012 22:32 GMT
#141
On February 03 2012 07:25 sunprince wrote:
Most people have the urge to kill people for petty reasons like jealousy now and then.

The only difference between this girl and others is that she lacked the inhibitions, empathy, and long-term planning to stop her from doing it.


I can confirm, that under no situations, would I ever consider the idea of killing someone, unless they killed me. Which wouldn't really provide me the opportunity, to kill them.

So, allow me to provide my equal opinion, to mirror yours. "Most incompetent people, have the urge to kill people".
UmiNotsuki
Profile Blog Joined April 2011
United States633 Posts
February 02 2012 22:33 GMT
#142
FUCK.

Wow. I can believe that there exist people for whom hurting others gives them pleasure (I know many sadists and such, sexual and otherwise,) so it's not unbelievable for me that someone would simply feel that way to the extreme. Still, for it to be a 12 year old girl is utterly shocking.

I certainly hope she's locked up. If anyone belongs behind bars, it's someone who kills without exterior motive. Terrifying thought, having her out and about.
UmiNotsuki.111 (NA), UNTReborn.932 (EU), UmiNotsuki (iCCup) -- You see that text I wrote above this? I'll betcha $5 that you disagree :D
thOr6136
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Slovenia1775 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-02 22:45:43
February 02 2012 22:36 GMT
#143
On February 03 2012 06:57 EquilasH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2012 06:43 thOr6136 wrote:
On February 03 2012 06:36 Myles wrote:
[OT: The girl clearly has some issues. Millions of kids around the world grow up with shitty upbringing and don't turn out like that.


It's called the butterfly effect "In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions; where a small change at one place in a nonlinear system can result in large differences to a later state." Read more about it if you find it interesting .


I'm not sure why you are associating this with the butterfly effect.
Let's say the bus is delayed 5 minutes, that might mean someone gets run over by the bus - however if you apply this to Sharon Carr's situation, I don't see how the fact that her mother gets home late from work one day or that the bathroom smells funny is gonna trigger something in her brain making her a ruthless killing machine.
To trigger something like this I would like to think something HUGE has to happen in her life OR that she has some very distinct brain malfunctions.

I am very interested in seeing how you want to apply the butterfly effect to this case though.

Edit: Fail quote.


I am reading some other posts, and i agree with you here (and some others) maybe she really has some very distinct brain malfunctions, that would be one explanation. With butterfly effect though (correct me if i am wrong), a small thing can cause a huge change in the outcome. The cause for killing might not be the bathroom smell (LOL) but probably something else and that is a misery to me. But that exact same cause could be applied to some other person and he would not turn into a ruthless killer. Wouldn't that mean the butterfly effect? Like y triggered x-actions that are not applied to some other person (that explains why everyone is not a serial killer) and those x-es shape in a way that the result is a serial killer. Damn, i have to read more about chaos theroy, only started a short time ago.

In a theory if you would have the whole image in front of you. Like every atom, every molecule every participle in space you could predict what y triggers x and how those xes react to each other, this way you could prevent those actions in between and the outcome would be normal living person (if they don't have distinct brain malfunctions).

And sorry for my bad english jesus, i would really like to talk about this in my first language.
Chill
Profile Blog Joined January 2005
Calgary25981 Posts
February 02 2012 22:36 GMT
#144
Whoa, crazy. I used to live near Camberley.
Moderator
momonami5
Profile Joined July 2011
United States109 Posts
February 02 2012 22:40 GMT
#145
something happened to her made her that way.
Usyless
Profile Joined June 2010
54 Posts
February 02 2012 22:42 GMT
#146
In musical form:

takajoebacca
Profile Joined October 2010
United States35 Posts
February 02 2012 22:43 GMT
#147
Definitely chilling. A 12 girl version of Michael Myers.
I can beat IdrA in a real game...without real units. -Huk
Valashu
Profile Joined August 2010
Netherlands561 Posts
February 02 2012 22:44 GMT
#148
On February 03 2012 04:54 Kamais Ookin wrote:
" I am a killer. Killing is my business - and business is good."

Megadeth influenced her I see.


Reminds me more of meet the sniper in Teamfortress 2


on topic, I wonder what made the girl the way she is.

Either a mental defect or her environment must have caused her to be this way.
The superior pilot uses his superior judgement to avoid exercising his superior skill.
treekiller
Profile Joined July 2010
United States236 Posts
February 02 2012 22:47 GMT
#149
Police questioned them, but they provided alibis for each other.

WHAT! Your two suspects some how managed to alibi each other so you just let them go? Maybe they said we should make up an alibi for each other seeing as how we were just involved in a murder?
All good things must come to an end. Therefore, SC2 will last forever
EquilasH
Profile Joined April 2009
Denmark2142 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-02 22:48:59
February 02 2012 22:47 GMT
#150
On February 03 2012 07:36 thOr6136 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2012 06:57 EquilasH wrote:
On February 03 2012 06:43 thOr6136 wrote:
On February 03 2012 06:36 Myles wrote:
[OT: The girl clearly has some issues. Millions of kids around the world grow up with shitty upbringing and don't turn out like that.


It's called the butterfly effect "In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions; where a small change at one place in a nonlinear system can result in large differences to a later state." Read more about it if you find it interesting .


I'm not sure why you are associating this with the butterfly effect.
Let's say the bus is delayed 5 minutes, that might mean someone gets run over by the bus - however if you apply this to Sharon Carr's situation, I don't see how the fact that her mother gets home late from work one day or that the bathroom smells funny is gonna trigger something in her brain making her a ruthless killing machine.
To trigger something like this I would like to think something HUGE has to happen in her life OR that she has some very distinct brain malfunctions.

I am very interested in seeing how you want to apply the butterfly effect to this case though.

Edit: Fail quote.


I am reading some other posts, and i agree with you here (and some others) maybe she really has some very distinct brain malfunctions, that would be one explanation. With butterfly effect though (correct me if i am wrong), a small thing can cause a huge change in the outcome. The cause for killing might not be the bathroom smell (LOL) but probably something else and that is a misery to me. But that exact same cause could be applied to some other person and he would not turn into a ruthless killer. Wouldn't that mean the butterfly effect? Like y triggered x-actions that are not applied to some other person (that explains why everyone is not a serial killer) and those x-es shape in a way that the result is a serial killer. Damn, i have to read more about chaos theroy, only started a short time ago.


I guess we actually do agree upon the matter afterall. Initially I thought you were trying to justify this with a series of small-scaled events that happened during the short period of time that the teachers described as her going from gentle and polite to being disruptive and attention-seeking.
However, as soon as you include her (apparent) brain malfunctions in the equation. Then combined with a series of events you could argue that the butterfly effect applies to this case - and I think this was what you were actually doing, but I might've just misunderstood you.
wat
thOr6136
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Slovenia1775 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-02 23:08:22
February 02 2012 22:57 GMT
#151
On February 03 2012 07:47 EquilasH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2012 07:36 thOr6136 wrote:
On February 03 2012 06:57 EquilasH wrote:
On February 03 2012 06:43 thOr6136 wrote:
On February 03 2012 06:36 Myles wrote:
[OT: The girl clearly has some issues. Millions of kids around the world grow up with shitty upbringing and don't turn out like that.


It's called the butterfly effect "In chaos theory, the butterfly effect is the sensitive dependence on initial conditions; where a small change at one place in a nonlinear system can result in large differences to a later state." Read more about it if you find it interesting .


I'm not sure why you are associating this with the butterfly effect.
Let's say the bus is delayed 5 minutes, that might mean someone gets run over by the bus - however if you apply this to Sharon Carr's situation, I don't see how the fact that her mother gets home late from work one day or that the bathroom smells funny is gonna trigger something in her brain making her a ruthless killing machine.
To trigger something like this I would like to think something HUGE has to happen in her life OR that she has some very distinct brain malfunctions.

I am very interested in seeing how you want to apply the butterfly effect to this case though.

Edit: Fail quote.


I am reading some other posts, and i agree with you here (and some others) maybe she really has some very distinct brain malfunctions, that would be one explanation. With butterfly effect though (correct me if i am wrong), a small thing can cause a huge change in the outcome. The cause for killing might not be the bathroom smell (LOL) but probably something else and that is a misery to me. But that exact same cause could be applied to some other person and he would not turn into a ruthless killer. Wouldn't that mean the butterfly effect? Like y triggered x-actions that are not applied to some other person (that explains why everyone is not a serial killer) and those x-es shape in a way that the result is a serial killer. Damn, i have to read more about chaos theroy, only started a short time ago.


I guess we actually do agree upon the matter afterall. Initially I thought you were trying to justify this with a series of small-scaled events that happened during the short period of time that the teachers described as her going from gentle and polite to being disruptive and attention-seeking.
However, as soon as you include her (apparent) brain malfunctions in the equation. Then combined with a series of events you could argue that the butterfly effect applies to this case - and I think this was what you were actually doing, but I might've just misunderstood you.


Hmmm, but don't you think that even without brain malfunctions (ie. not being able to sense empathy) the outcome can be a serial killer? Or am i thinking here too shallowly?

EDIT: damn, i guess you were asking me the exact same question?
Golem72
Profile Joined January 2010
Canada127 Posts
February 02 2012 22:59 GMT
#152
On February 03 2012 04:50 Xiron wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2012 04:40 Norris_is_GODLY wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/i-was-born-to-be-a-killer

so i was just flicking throught my news feed on fb and came across this news article-

Sharon Carr, a girl obsessed with death and violence, secured her place in criminal history yesterday as Britain's youngest female murderer.

She had killed at the age of 12 - a savage attack in which a teenage hairdresser was mutilated with 29 stab wounds. The victim, Katie Rackliff, had been picked out at random as she walked home from a nightclub in June l992.

The trial at Winchester Crown Court was told that in the years that followed, Carr seemed to be exultant over the killing, and yet haunted by it. She was endlessly writing about the murder and drawing pictures of a knife.

Samples of her notes were graphic. In one she said: " I am a killer. Killing is my business - and business is good." In another: " I was born to be a murderer. Killing for me is a mass turn-on and it just makes me so high I never want to come down. Every night I see the Devil in my dreams - sometimes even in my mirror, but I realise it was just me."

Four years after the murder, a diary entry stated: " I bring the knife into her chest. Her eyes are closing. She is pleading with me so I bring the knife to her again and again. I don't want to hurt her but I need to do violence to her ... I need to overcome her beauty, her serenity, her security. There I see her face when she died. I know she feels her life being slowly drawn from her and I hear her gasp. I guess she was trying to breathe.

"The air stops in the back of her throat. I know all her life her breathing has worked, but it does not now. And I am joyful".

Were these the fantasies of a deeply disturbed mind, as the defence claimed? Or, as the Crown held, the grim memories of an " evil and precocious" schoolgirl who gloried in what she had done? The jury had no doubt.

It was the writings, and subsequent verbal confessions that convicted Carr. There was no forensic evidence, but, as the prosecution pointed out, she had knowledge of the murder not available to the public. She graphically described one particular injury, details of which the police had deliberately withheld, and she also knew that a bracelet had been stolen from Katie Rackliff - knowledge that only the killer would have.

In June 1994, almost two years to the day after Katie's murder, Carr attacked a pupil called Ann-Marie Clifford with a knife, for no apparent reason, at Collingwood College Comprehensive in Camberley, Surrey.

While awaiting trial, she was sent to an assessment centre where she tried to strangle two members of staff. Two counts of actual bodily harm were taken into account when she was convicted of wounding Ann-Marie, and sentenced to be detained at Her Majesty's pleasure.

At Bulwood Hall young offenders' institution, staff alerted police after Carr began talking about the killing of Katie Rackliff on the telephone to her friends and family and wrote about it in her diaries. She also began to give details of what she had done to a prison officer, on whom she had developed a crush, as well as talking about it to a probation officer.

The Rackliff killing had remained unsolved despite four years of intensive investigation by police. Some of the knife blows that Katie suffered in the attack had gone straight through her body and out the other side. Her sexual organs were mutilated, and her clothes pulled up, although there was no evidence of sexual assault.

Detectives seized Carr's writings and drawings, and questioned her for 27 hours. She gave three different accounts of how Katie had been killed, but in all of them the central theme was she had repeatedly stabbed her.

In two of the versions, Carr said she was with two boys in a car at the time of the attack, and they had engaged in sexual activity with Katie before dumping the body. She named the two boys. Police interviewed them but they provided alibis for each other, and were eliminated from the inquiry. However, the prosecution could not satisfactorily explain how Katie, who weighed 8st 8lbs, was dragged across a pavement and around a corner by a 12-year-old girl.

Carr continued with her writing even after being interviewed by the police. In April l996, the month before she was charged, she wrote: " I am not like one of those pretty girls who breaks down due to a guilty conscience. Through six and a half years of causing people grief, I still have not found one." On 7 June, her diary read: " Respect to Katie Rackliff. Four years today."

Sadistic violence seemed to be part of her life. Police discovered that she had decapitated a neighbour's dog with a spade, and there was also a "suggestion" from a friend that she had fried live hamsters.

Detective Sergeant Paul Clements, who interviewed Carr extensively, recalled: "It was almost as if she was in another world. What sticks in my mind about talking to her was the coldness. Most people that you interview show some feeling as to why they have done what they have done. But with her there was a complete absence of emotion and reason."

Carr was born in Belize in l981 and was brought up by her mother and stepfather - a soldier. After moving to England the family settled in Camberley, Surrey. Her parents split up and she was briefly fostered, but after a month she returned to the home of her mother. At school, her teachers initially described her as polite and helpful, but her behaviour deteriorated and she became disruptive and attention-seeking.

Criminal psychologist Gordon Tressler said: "This is a difficult case to understand. One can find precedents of young children killing other young children, but in this case it was a child killing someone who was almost an adult.

"This is an extremely dangerous person because she is clearly prepared to kill without an adequate motive. That makes her conduct very unpredictable and very dangerous. She is a great danger to the public."


This is honestly one of the most fucked up things i have ever read....

i have a younger sister around that age and to think someone that young could be so evil and cold just blows my mind. The way the girl describes the things she did is truely horrifying

It does say her parents broke up and that she was briefly put into foster care, and so my question is this- Do you think some people are just 'born killers' as she states, or is it the experiences one has growing up that could lead them to do such a thing? Or maybe even a combination of the two?



I do have a younger sister at that age, too.
I for one think that it is indeed possible to be born as a killer. You only get satisfaction through causing pain and such. But I also believe that the divorce of her parents may have acted as a trigger to let her live out what she wanted to do. If they didn't break up, her daughter may have started killing people at the age of like 25 anyway.


I don't find these things horrifying at all and actually want to meet someone like that in life. For me it is poetic what has been written in her diary or w/e also I have myself wanted to kill people plenty of times especially family growing up. Though these things may be scary to some don't be an idiot because people think about these things in their daily lives everyday and you just don't know about them.
When my situation ain't improving I try to murder everything moving! (Jay-Z)
NeThZOR
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
South Africa7387 Posts
February 02 2012 23:01 GMT
#153
On February 03 2012 04:54 Kamais Ookin wrote:
" I am a killer. Killing is my business - and business is good."

Megadeth influenced her I see.

Was my same exact thought when I read that by her.
SuperNova - 2015 | SKT1 fan for years | Dear, FlaSh, PartinG, Soulkey, Naniwa
reincremate
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
China2215 Posts
February 02 2012 23:04 GMT
#154
On February 03 2012 07:59 Golem72 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2012 04:50 Xiron wrote:
On February 03 2012 04:40 Norris_is_GODLY wrote:
+ Show Spoiler +
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/i-was-born-to-be-a-killer

so i was just flicking throught my news feed on fb and came across this news article-

Sharon Carr, a girl obsessed with death and violence, secured her place in criminal history yesterday as Britain's youngest female murderer.

She had killed at the age of 12 - a savage attack in which a teenage hairdresser was mutilated with 29 stab wounds. The victim, Katie Rackliff, had been picked out at random as she walked home from a nightclub in June l992.

The trial at Winchester Crown Court was told that in the years that followed, Carr seemed to be exultant over the killing, and yet haunted by it. She was endlessly writing about the murder and drawing pictures of a knife.

Samples of her notes were graphic. In one she said: " I am a killer. Killing is my business - and business is good." In another: " I was born to be a murderer. Killing for me is a mass turn-on and it just makes me so high I never want to come down. Every night I see the Devil in my dreams - sometimes even in my mirror, but I realise it was just me."

Four years after the murder, a diary entry stated: " I bring the knife into her chest. Her eyes are closing. She is pleading with me so I bring the knife to her again and again. I don't want to hurt her but I need to do violence to her ... I need to overcome her beauty, her serenity, her security. There I see her face when she died. I know she feels her life being slowly drawn from her and I hear her gasp. I guess she was trying to breathe.

"The air stops in the back of her throat. I know all her life her breathing has worked, but it does not now. And I am joyful".

Were these the fantasies of a deeply disturbed mind, as the defence claimed? Or, as the Crown held, the grim memories of an " evil and precocious" schoolgirl who gloried in what she had done? The jury had no doubt.

It was the writings, and subsequent verbal confessions that convicted Carr. There was no forensic evidence, but, as the prosecution pointed out, she had knowledge of the murder not available to the public. She graphically described one particular injury, details of which the police had deliberately withheld, and she also knew that a bracelet had been stolen from Katie Rackliff - knowledge that only the killer would have.

In June 1994, almost two years to the day after Katie's murder, Carr attacked a pupil called Ann-Marie Clifford with a knife, for no apparent reason, at Collingwood College Comprehensive in Camberley, Surrey.

While awaiting trial, she was sent to an assessment centre where she tried to strangle two members of staff. Two counts of actual bodily harm were taken into account when she was convicted of wounding Ann-Marie, and sentenced to be detained at Her Majesty's pleasure.

At Bulwood Hall young offenders' institution, staff alerted police after Carr began talking about the killing of Katie Rackliff on the telephone to her friends and family and wrote about it in her diaries. She also began to give details of what she had done to a prison officer, on whom she had developed a crush, as well as talking about it to a probation officer.

The Rackliff killing had remained unsolved despite four years of intensive investigation by police. Some of the knife blows that Katie suffered in the attack had gone straight through her body and out the other side. Her sexual organs were mutilated, and her clothes pulled up, although there was no evidence of sexual assault.

Detectives seized Carr's writings and drawings, and questioned her for 27 hours. She gave three different accounts of how Katie had been killed, but in all of them the central theme was she had repeatedly stabbed her.

In two of the versions, Carr said she was with two boys in a car at the time of the attack, and they had engaged in sexual activity with Katie before dumping the body. She named the two boys. Police interviewed them but they provided alibis for each other, and were eliminated from the inquiry. However, the prosecution could not satisfactorily explain how Katie, who weighed 8st 8lbs, was dragged across a pavement and around a corner by a 12-year-old girl.

Carr continued with her writing even after being interviewed by the police. In April l996, the month before she was charged, she wrote: " I am not like one of those pretty girls who breaks down due to a guilty conscience. Through six and a half years of causing people grief, I still have not found one." On 7 June, her diary read: " Respect to Katie Rackliff. Four years today."

Sadistic violence seemed to be part of her life. Police discovered that she had decapitated a neighbour's dog with a spade, and there was also a "suggestion" from a friend that she had fried live hamsters.

Detective Sergeant Paul Clements, who interviewed Carr extensively, recalled: "It was almost as if she was in another world. What sticks in my mind about talking to her was the coldness. Most people that you interview show some feeling as to why they have done what they have done. But with her there was a complete absence of emotion and reason."

Carr was born in Belize in l981 and was brought up by her mother and stepfather - a soldier. After moving to England the family settled in Camberley, Surrey. Her parents split up and she was briefly fostered, but after a month she returned to the home of her mother. At school, her teachers initially described her as polite and helpful, but her behaviour deteriorated and she became disruptive and attention-seeking.

Criminal psychologist Gordon Tressler said: "This is a difficult case to understand. One can find precedents of young children killing other young children, but in this case it was a child killing someone who was almost an adult.

"This is an extremely dangerous person because she is clearly prepared to kill without an adequate motive. That makes her conduct very unpredictable and very dangerous. She is a great danger to the public."


This is honestly one of the most fucked up things i have ever read....

i have a younger sister around that age and to think someone that young could be so evil and cold just blows my mind. The way the girl describes the things she did is truely horrifying

It does say her parents broke up and that she was briefly put into foster care, and so my question is this- Do you think some people are just 'born killers' as she states, or is it the experiences one has growing up that could lead them to do such a thing? Or maybe even a combination of the two?



I do have a younger sister at that age, too.
I for one think that it is indeed possible to be born as a killer. You only get satisfaction through causing pain and such. But I also believe that the divorce of her parents may have acted as a trigger to let her live out what she wanted to do. If they didn't break up, her daughter may have started killing people at the age of like 25 anyway.


I don't find these things horrifying at all and actually want to meet someone like that in life. For me it is poetic what has been written in her diary or w/e also I have myself wanted to kill people plenty of times especially family growing up. Though these things may be scary to some don't be an idiot because people think about these things in their daily lives everyday and you just don't know about them.


The vast majority of people (probably >99.9%) will never kill someone for fun. There's a huge difference between random intrusive violent thoughts or even fantasies, which are common, and actually doing things.
Liph
Profile Joined April 2011
United States151 Posts
February 02 2012 23:09 GMT
#155
On February 03 2012 04:54 Zinnwaldite wrote:
these things are so interesting,, would be great to have a chat with her..

i kinda wanna fuck her for some reason..

User was temp banned for this post.


Rofl, wow. I was going to post something along the lines of this girl is going to be hot when she's legal, almost stepped over the line and was gonna say something similar to this. Now that I know it's a ban, ruh roh, shaggy.
"You Miss 100% of the Shots You Don't Take - Wayne Gretsky" Michael Gary Scott
Railgan
Profile Joined August 2010
Switzerland1507 Posts
February 02 2012 23:10 GMT
#156
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intrusive_thoughts
welcome to my world where your biggest enemy is your brain.

Also i'm really interested into her would love to see what kind of person she actually is if she has any hobbys or such. I bet she could tell alot of storys
Grandmaster Zerg from Switzerland!!! www.twitch.tv/railgan // www.twitter.com/railgansc // www.youtube.com/c/railgansc
Frozenhelfire
Profile Joined May 2010
United States420 Posts
February 02 2012 23:18 GMT
#157
On February 03 2012 06:12 darkscream wrote:
Show nested quote +
On February 03 2012 04:54 Zinnwaldite wrote:
these things are so interesting,, would be great to have a chat with her..

i kinda wanna fuck her for some reason..

User was temp banned for this post.


I would have been cool with this comment if the GIRL WASNT TWELVE WTF.

sooo fucked up, I hope I never meet a 12 year old like this.


Relevant dates are relevant. She was twelve in 1992. Derpadurr. I thought most people read at least part of the original post before replying, especially before replying to replies. Context is useful thing toi have. She is a little older than twelve now.
polar bears are fluffy
Doko
Profile Joined May 2010
Argentina1737 Posts
February 02 2012 23:28 GMT
#158
"I don't want to hurt her but I need to do violence to her ... I need to overcome her beauty, her serenity, her security"


That just screams of trying to make her victim feel what she feels. Specially the last word. She makes it sound like she never had the protection of an adult for a certain event or through her life.
I would translate that as.

"I don't want to hurt her but she must be shown how things really are, I need to take her joy of life, her trust in people, her false sense of security"

Needs more investigation into abuse. Although it could just be a chemical unbalance of the brain
Psychobabas
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
2531 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-02-02 23:40:33
February 02 2012 23:39 GMT
#159
Here's a pic of her

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/news/view/72930

[image loading]
FREEloss_ca
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada603 Posts
February 03 2012 00:08 GMT
#160
Born in blood, obviously.
"Starcraft...It just echos brilliance and manliness." - Tasteless
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