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On January 23 2012 05:09 FryktSkyene wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 04:35 cydial wrote:
People die everyday, Joe Paterno was just another person, get over it we'll all be joining him someday.
And yes, he was ethically and morally wrong when he failed to take action. The common sense alarm should've been blaring out of the fucking ears when he noticed even though he reported Sandusky for child abuse, HE WAS STILL WORKING AT PENNSTATE FOR YEARS AND YEARS TO FOLLOW.
He may have not committed anything legally wrong, but morally and ethically he was off. You don't just forget a legened of PSU football. Thats like forgetting MLK for black people (forgetting JoePa for PSU students)
The fact that you would make that analogy....no just no. I can't even express how wrong that is
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On January 23 2012 05:12 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 05:09 FryktSkyene wrote:On January 23 2012 04:35 cydial wrote:
People die everyday, Joe Paterno was just another person, get over it we'll all be joining him someday.
And yes, he was ethically and morally wrong when he failed to take action. The common sense alarm should've been blaring out of the fucking ears when he noticed even though he reported Sandusky for child abuse, HE WAS STILL WORKING AT PENNSTATE FOR YEARS AND YEARS TO FOLLOW.
He may have not committed anything legally wrong, but morally and ethically he was off. You don't just forget a legened of PSU football. Thats like forgetting MLK for black people (forgetting JoePa for PSU students) Your analogy wasn't really thought out was it?
I don't know, comparing someone who facilitated child rape with one of the greatest heroes the United States has ever known sounds pretty apt to me
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RIP Joe Paterno. An unfortunate ending to what was a storied coaching legacy he had at Penn State.
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You have to wonder how that whole scandal effected him =/
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+ Show Spoiler +On January 23 2012 01:17 KalWarkov wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 00:56 shizna wrote:
never heard of him, so i looked on google.
didn't recognise him by looks, so i read about him...
coach of 'penn state', never heard of it.
presumably some kind of obscure sports coach died of natural causes at the ripe age of 85.
at the risk of sounding insensitive, is this 'news' ? because it certainly doesn't make interesting discussion. i somehow agree to this. Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 01:02 Kiyo. wrote:
at the risk of sounding insensitive, is this 'news' ? because it certainly doesn't make interesting discussion. Was probably one of the top 5 most famous college football coaches ever. He coached the same team for 46 years and was consistently near the top. is college football any popular besides colleges in the US? this confuses me somehow, why is something popular when its not "pro"? €: and as i read here he supported childrape somewhat. my sadness level fell from 0 to -1 User was temp banned for this post.
Gotta love all of the "Ive never heard of him before so he must be a nobody" posts. You all do realize there are a shitload of famous people youve never heard of before right?
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On January 23 2012 03:41 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 03:37 s4life wrote:On January 23 2012 03:01 JonnyLaw wrote:On January 23 2012 02:50 BeanwhizzJax wrote:On January 23 2012 02:40 Witten wrote:
Reading this thread was a painful experience.
RIP Joe Paterno, my thoughts go out to his family. I'm so sorry that reading this thread was painful. I'm sure the boys he witnessed getting molested aren't in any pain. On a serious note, why does everyone love football so much? I mean, everyone is so quick to say, "Joe Paterno was such a legend, he spent 48 years coaching a team." Jesus christ, this guy let children, CHILDREN, get molested. Do you guys love football so much you can't realize that child molestation is the most despicable, disgusting thing that could happen to someone? I bet for the record that half of you who are supporting this enabler didn't even care about PENN state. You know, just because it's football doesn't mean you have to like everything about it. If you really want to dish out condolences, give them to the children and children's families. This will be my last post in this thread. The uninformed responses and general hate is not worth reading. Joe Paterno did not molest children. Joe Paterno, heard second hand reports of molestation occurring. He reported it to his superiors as as expected in these situations. JoePa was in his mid 70s when these allegations occurred. He did not even coach on a sideline due to his weak physical health. He took appropriate action. Could Joe have done more? Of course. Did Joe fully understand the scope of what was occurring under his eyes? I doubt it. He's an old man who has not been physically sound for a number of years. I am completely uncertain of his mental capacity to understand the severity of the issue occcuring. IN SPITE OF THIS. Back off, the man is dead. Show some fucking respect for the dead. You will never know what Joe knew about child molestiation, you will never know his thoughts nor the reports he gave to his superiors. He was an old man then, and as a dead man he deserves respect. Paterno also saw Sandusky getting in and out of the school's gyms and showers with kids for 10 freaking years... knowing what he did know and doing nothing then is a complete moral fail. It is just fair for him to be remembered as a pedofile enabler, because he simply was one along with many others at that school. to the best of our knowledge........ no he didn't. Stop lying. im sure he saw him around campus with children and knew he still had access to the facilities. but to say he himself saw sandusky and children getting out of showers together is an outright lie at this time. Think before you post.
1) He saw Sandusky going around campus with kids all the time
2) Since he was his boss at the time of his firing, he knew the concessions he got, i.e. he knew Sandusky had access to all the campus facilities at all times
And all this was happening for 10 years heh... sure he knew, he just chose to protect the reputation of his college football program over the wellbeing of the kids.
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I'll avoid telling my personal distaste for the guy, but he was a great coach.
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On January 23 2012 01:21 Nizaris wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 01:19 Dispersion wrote:On January 23 2012 00:48 big_boat wrote:
Extremely glad he's gone. Call him a legend all you want, but he was a horrible person. Get out. This man made Penn State what it is. RIP Penn State what it is: a college where it was OK to sexually abuse boys, if you were the coach. I can safely say that he won't be missed.
Yeah, kind of silly people are being banned for speaking out about this guy. College football must be a big deal to some mods.
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On January 23 2012 05:46 HazMat wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 01:21 Nizaris wrote:On January 23 2012 01:19 Dispersion wrote:On January 23 2012 00:48 big_boat wrote:
Extremely glad he's gone. Call him a legend all you want, but he was a horrible person. Get out. This man made Penn State what it is. RIP Penn State what it is: a college where it was OK to sexually abuse boys, if you were the coach. I can safely say that he won't be missed. Yeah, kind of silly people are being banned for speaking out about this guy. College football must be a big deal to some mods.
Seriously, wtf is going on here?
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On January 23 2012 05:50 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 05:46 HazMat wrote:On January 23 2012 01:21 Nizaris wrote:On January 23 2012 01:19 Dispersion wrote:On January 23 2012 00:48 big_boat wrote:
Extremely glad he's gone. Call him a legend all you want, but he was a horrible person. Get out. This man made Penn State what it is. RIP Penn State what it is: a college where it was OK to sexually abuse boys, if you were the coach. I can safely say that he won't be missed. Yeah, kind of silly people are being banned for speaking out about this guy. College football must be a big deal to some mods. Seriously, wtf is going on here?
If you'd look, almost every ban has been for calling another user a "fucking retard" or something along those lines. Also one guy posted nothing but a link.
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It seems like there is a decent crowd of people here who are making comments without knowing fully about who Joe Paterno is, why he's an incredibly important figure in American sports and culture, and why his death, particularly in light of the last several months, means quite a lot. Hopefully I can help put things in perspective for those in need of more information and education about the situation.
Joe Paterno was a football (the American kind) coach at Penn State University for 46 years. In modern American Division I College athletics, that length of tenure is practically unheard of. The Division I NCAA athletic system is so corrupt now, with schools so focused on making money and finding ways to cheat the system (making up fake classes for players to take, falsifying testing scores, making illegal payoffs to recruiters and players, and so on) that it's practically criminal. In an era where coaches do anything to get a good player, Joe Paterno went completely against that wave. The Penn State football program continually posted graduation rates of players far higher than other comparable institutions while remaining competitive and relevant. For example, a 2009 study showed that the 2002-2003 entering class of football players he recruited graduated at an 89% rate compared with the dismal 55% average of other Division I schools that year. His teams also continually had an exceptional rate of players being selected for national academic achievement among student-athletes as well as to the school's Dean's List. He and his wife gave over $4 million to the school and helped raise $13.5 million for the university library.
For decades, as more and more schools got nailed for recruiting and academic violations and college football's integrity became more and more laughable, Paterno's record continued to stand out. However, in November last year, news broke out about the covering up of alleged child sexual abuse by one of Paterno's longtime assistant coaches, Jerry Sandusky. It came out that, in 2002, Paterno was told by another assistant coach that he saw a boy being subjected to anal intercourse by Sandusky in a locker room shower. Paterno told two of his immediate superiors (who are currently indicted for covering up the allegations) about this incident, though he did not go directly to the police about it. Though he was never charged with a crime, Paterno was fired on November 9 last year.
So, there are a lot of things going on about this story - not just someone's death, but someone's death in light of what he stood for for so long, how quickly his image, reputation, life, and the incalculable amount of good work he did for so many people so quickly got thrown into chaos, how sudden his health failed and he died after falling so far, and what it means going forward about a culture that means a lot to a huge amount of the American population.
Say what you will about his flaws, as he certainly had some, though as is the case with anyone who is important to a lot of people, be respectful, and take it upon yourself to educate yourself about the situation before making incendiary or uninformed statements.
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On January 23 2012 05:38 s4life wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 03:41 Sadist wrote:On January 23 2012 03:37 s4life wrote:On January 23 2012 03:01 JonnyLaw wrote:On January 23 2012 02:50 BeanwhizzJax wrote:On January 23 2012 02:40 Witten wrote:
Reading this thread was a painful experience.
RIP Joe Paterno, my thoughts go out to his family. I'm so sorry that reading this thread was painful. I'm sure the boys he witnessed getting molested aren't in any pain. On a serious note, why does everyone love football so much? I mean, everyone is so quick to say, "Joe Paterno was such a legend, he spent 48 years coaching a team." Jesus christ, this guy let children, CHILDREN, get molested. Do you guys love football so much you can't realize that child molestation is the most despicable, disgusting thing that could happen to someone? I bet for the record that half of you who are supporting this enabler didn't even care about PENN state. You know, just because it's football doesn't mean you have to like everything about it. If you really want to dish out condolences, give them to the children and children's families. This will be my last post in this thread. The uninformed responses and general hate is not worth reading. Joe Paterno did not molest children. Joe Paterno, heard second hand reports of molestation occurring. He reported it to his superiors as as expected in these situations. JoePa was in his mid 70s when these allegations occurred. He did not even coach on a sideline due to his weak physical health. He took appropriate action. Could Joe have done more? Of course. Did Joe fully understand the scope of what was occurring under his eyes? I doubt it. He's an old man who has not been physically sound for a number of years. I am completely uncertain of his mental capacity to understand the severity of the issue occcuring. IN SPITE OF THIS. Back off, the man is dead. Show some fucking respect for the dead. You will never know what Joe knew about child molestiation, you will never know his thoughts nor the reports he gave to his superiors. He was an old man then, and as a dead man he deserves respect. Paterno also saw Sandusky getting in and out of the school's gyms and showers with kids for 10 freaking years... knowing what he did know and doing nothing then is a complete moral fail. It is just fair for him to be remembered as a pedofile enabler, because he simply was one along with many others at that school. to the best of our knowledge........ no he didn't. Stop lying. im sure he saw him around campus with children and knew he still had access to the facilities. but to say he himself saw sandusky and children getting out of showers together is an outright lie at this time. Think before you post. 1) He saw Sandusky going around campus with kids all the time 2) Since he was his boss at the time of his firing, he knew the concessions he got, i.e. he knew Sandusky had access to all the campus facilities at all times And all this was happening for 10 years heh... sure he knew, he just chose to protect the reputation of his college football program over the wellbeing of the kids.
you insinuated that he saw them coming in and out of showers together.
That is completely and utterly false considering what we know at this time.
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Northern Ireland25245 Posts
Respect to the dead as an absolutist principle to be enforced on all occasions is stupid. Whitewashing over allegations that he failed in his duty of care to his charges because he was a 'great football coach' is absolutely obscene. The mindset that an ability to organise a sports team well can put somebody's legacy beyond reproach is just abhorrent to me. I really am one of the least offended people I know, but this idea offends me.
On Paterno himself, I'm not 100% sure of the timeframe. I've read about this in the past but I don't live in the States so my following of College sports is somewhat limited. Perhaps if he's just died from cancer, then the spectre of ill-health has been shadowing him for a while and made him less effective in stopping the abuse. These things aren't always as black and white as has been made out by both parties
TLDR I'm offended more by the principle that we shouldn't discuss the shady legacy than willing to damn Paterno outright.
Thoughts with his family, people can make mistakes and that doesn't mean they are immoral monsters. Rest in peace.
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Tbh its a sad way to leave a legacy like that. He should of done something about it and he got what he deserves.
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I think the end of Joe's life is a sad one. RIP.
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On January 23 2012 05:12 PanN wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 05:09 FryktSkyene wrote:On January 23 2012 04:35 cydial wrote:
People die everyday, Joe Paterno was just another person, get over it we'll all be joining him someday.
And yes, he was ethically and morally wrong when he failed to take action. The common sense alarm should've been blaring out of the fucking ears when he noticed even though he reported Sandusky for child abuse, HE WAS STILL WORKING AT PENNSTATE FOR YEARS AND YEARS TO FOLLOW.
He may have not committed anything legally wrong, but morally and ethically he was off. You don't just forget a legened of PSU football. Thats like forgetting MLK for black people (forgetting JoePa for PSU students) Your analogy wasn't really thought out was it?
generally analogies are really terrible and they don't add any argument at all. That one is no exception
Personally I don't care, I think whatever career/image he had should be ruined because he enabled things to happen which shouldn't have. Football is a game kids play, not one where they get molested in. Paterno should have acted and since he didn't, he is definitely part of the problem. People sometimes fail to look at the big picture imo
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People in here acting like JoePa was raping kids or something. As far as we know, he reported the situation to his superiors at the university, and those superiors are being indicted.
Paterno may have made a mistake in not reporting to the authorities what was happening, but it doesn't take away from the fact that for his players and almost anyone enrolled in PSU over the last 40 years he was a role model and an inspiration.
RIP JoePa, sad it had to end like this.
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He couldn't live without coaching... RIP JoePa
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On January 23 2012 06:12 Sadist wrote:Show nested quote +On January 23 2012 05:38 s4life wrote:On January 23 2012 03:41 Sadist wrote:On January 23 2012 03:37 s4life wrote:On January 23 2012 03:01 JonnyLaw wrote:On January 23 2012 02:50 BeanwhizzJax wrote:On January 23 2012 02:40 Witten wrote:
Reading this thread was a painful experience.
RIP Joe Paterno, my thoughts go out to his family. I'm so sorry that reading this thread was painful. I'm sure the boys he witnessed getting molested aren't in any pain. On a serious note, why does everyone love football so much? I mean, everyone is so quick to say, "Joe Paterno was such a legend, he spent 48 years coaching a team." Jesus christ, this guy let children, CHILDREN, get molested. Do you guys love football so much you can't realize that child molestation is the most despicable, disgusting thing that could happen to someone? I bet for the record that half of you who are supporting this enabler didn't even care about PENN state. You know, just because it's football doesn't mean you have to like everything about it. If you really want to dish out condolences, give them to the children and children's families. This will be my last post in this thread. The uninformed responses and general hate is not worth reading. Joe Paterno did not molest children. Joe Paterno, heard second hand reports of molestation occurring. He reported it to his superiors as as expected in these situations. JoePa was in his mid 70s when these allegations occurred. He did not even coach on a sideline due to his weak physical health. He took appropriate action. Could Joe have done more? Of course. Did Joe fully understand the scope of what was occurring under his eyes? I doubt it. He's an old man who has not been physically sound for a number of years. I am completely uncertain of his mental capacity to understand the severity of the issue occcuring. IN SPITE OF THIS. Back off, the man is dead. Show some fucking respect for the dead. You will never know what Joe knew about child molestiation, you will never know his thoughts nor the reports he gave to his superiors. He was an old man then, and as a dead man he deserves respect. Paterno also saw Sandusky getting in and out of the school's gyms and showers with kids for 10 freaking years... knowing what he did know and doing nothing then is a complete moral fail. It is just fair for him to be remembered as a pedofile enabler, because he simply was one along with many others at that school. to the best of our knowledge........ no he didn't. Stop lying. im sure he saw him around campus with children and knew he still had access to the facilities. but to say he himself saw sandusky and children getting out of showers together is an outright lie at this time. Think before you post. 1) He saw Sandusky going around campus with kids all the time 2) Since he was his boss at the time of his firing, he knew the concessions he got, i.e. he knew Sandusky had access to all the campus facilities at all times And all this was happening for 10 years heh... sure he knew, he just chose to protect the reputation of his college football program over the wellbeing of the kids. you insinuated that he saw them coming in and out of showers together. That is completely and utterly false considering what we know at this time.
Fine, he didn't see them coming out of the shower together, he just was told Sandusky was caught with a boy in the showers.. same difference.
Are you really saying Paterno couldn't have possibly known what Sandusky was doing with the kids around the gyms and showers for 10 years? If so, I have a bridge to sell you..
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EPT
