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On November 02 2011 19:47 Paperplane wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 19:45 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:44 Paperplane wrote:On November 02 2011 19:41 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:39 arbitrageur wrote:On November 02 2011 19:34 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:24 AnatheKing wrote:On November 02 2011 19:22 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:16 Capped wrote:On November 02 2011 19:11 pandaBee wrote:
[quote]
im not condoning abuse in any way. but then again im not condoning people who aren't parents criticizing people who actually Are parents and have to make these decisions - whether they seem good or bad - on a daily basis. do u think parents like to resort to physical disciplining? ofc u can argue that it is not necessary but depending on what culture u are from and who u are it is a part of growing up. clearly the man says that it was a last resort and that she had c rossed the line several times for it to have come to this. You are fucking condoning it, you are defending his actions. I work with kids day in day out and i see the effects of what this bullshit does. So dont fuck me around and say i have no actual "view" on the situation. I have already explained all my views on physical punishment and how far over the line this shit is, a whip is a weapon, being used on a child. You are scum, worse then shit and you are probably this way because you suffered the same or worse then this girl did, much like the others sound who defend his actions in this thread. I cant fucking believe humanity right now, sick twisted fuck. for every kid that you've worked with i can find ten that have been spanked as kids that function just fine right now. no problems at all whatsoever. ignorant people ignorant conclusions. calling me bad names won't change my opinions you are only hurting your own cause friend. if you're trying to convince me that is  The ones who are doing fine are doing it DESPITE the abuse, not in any way because of. And why are you ignoring the research you asked for? I can post again if you like: http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ : "Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression."" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915100941.htm : "Spanking 1-year-olds leads to more aggressive behaviors and less sophisticated cognitive development in the next two years." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090924231749.htm : "Children who are spanked have lower IQs worldwide, including in the United States" http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin5.htm : "The researchers found that the children which were spanked the most as 3 to 5 year olds exhibited higher levels of anti-social behavior when observed 2 and 4 years later. This included higher levels of hitting siblings, hitting other children in school, defying parents, and ignoring parental rules." http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.htmlhttp://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior/spanking/10-reasons-not-hit-your-childhttp://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/talk/discipline.html okay i apologize i do not have the time to read through all of the articles in full detail but i did skim most of them and from the things i've read i'm not surprised. i agree with most of what i've seen so far. things such that spanking babies will fuck them up later on and that spanking children and making it a habit to do so over a long period of time can also fuck them up. but that's not surprising. in my opinion if a parent needs to resort to physical disciplining such as spanking it better do its job. as in if they have to rely on it all the time and it doesn't work they are not doing something right. and if they continue to do so at the expensve of the children's psyche then yes it is wrong and it is abuse but here in the video that is posted we see one act of physical disciplining , coporal punishment, whatever u want to call it. and in this one act the father says that "it has come to this" implying that it was a last resort of sorts. on top of this the girl is 16 years old and clearly passing the boundaries that her parents have lain down for her. so just from the context of the video and from what i've skimmed through on your articles nothing i've read really seems ot defeat my point that parents, if absolutely need be, should be able to physically spank their kids booties. of c i agree that babies should not be spanked as a form of discipline - they're babies what do they understand ! and yes i agree that spanking long term will cause problems in the children because it means that the parents are full of fail anyways if they cannot resolve their children's conflict even when resorting to violence, and more so but it is a good solution in the short term and when used sparingly it can be a good thing. obviously this does not cross the abuse threshold where trauma is experienced and things get messy. Do you have any evidence for your claim that it can be a good thing when used sparingly? well from the article that the person i was talking to yes http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ according to his sources it can be a good short term solution if used appropriately. Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression." And the sentence RIGHT after that says it's very ineffective longterm. yep i agree spanking is ineffective in the longterm. if u were paying any attention u would have heard me said that just halfway up this page. I'm sorry, I don't have the time or patience to read through all the garbage you're spouting.
that's fine with me bro. i know that you wouldn't want to be proved wrong. you're much too much too afraid of that.
in actuality my views do not differ from most of yours, but people sure like to think they do ! without even reading my points nonetheless
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On November 02 2011 19:48 pandaBee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 19:47 Paperplane wrote:On November 02 2011 19:45 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:44 Paperplane wrote:On November 02 2011 19:41 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:39 arbitrageur wrote:On November 02 2011 19:34 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:24 AnatheKing wrote:On November 02 2011 19:22 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:16 Capped wrote:
[quote]
You are fucking condoning it, you are defending his actions.
I work with kids day in day out and i see the effects of what this bullshit does. So dont fuck me around and say i have no actual "view" on the situation.
I have already explained all my views on physical punishment and how far over the line this shit is, a whip is a weapon, being used on a child.
You are scum, worse then shit and you are probably this way because you suffered the same or worse then this girl did, much like the others sound who defend his actions in this thread.
I cant fucking believe humanity right now, sick twisted fuck. for every kid that you've worked with i can find ten that have been spanked as kids that function just fine right now. no problems at all whatsoever. ignorant people ignorant conclusions. calling me bad names won't change my opinions you are only hurting your own cause friend. if you're trying to convince me that is The ones who are doing fine are doing it DESPITE the abuse, not in any way because of. And why are you ignoring the research you asked for? I can post again if you like: http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ : "Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression."" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915100941.htm : "Spanking 1-year-olds leads to more aggressive behaviors and less sophisticated cognitive development in the next two years." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090924231749.htm : "Children who are spanked have lower IQs worldwide, including in the United States" http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin5.htm : "The researchers found that the children which were spanked the most as 3 to 5 year olds exhibited higher levels of anti-social behavior when observed 2 and 4 years later. This included higher levels of hitting siblings, hitting other children in school, defying parents, and ignoring parental rules." http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.htmlhttp://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior/spanking/10-reasons-not-hit-your-childhttp://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/talk/discipline.html okay i apologize i do not have the time to read through all of the articles in full detail but i did skim most of them and from the things i've read i'm not surprised. i agree with most of what i've seen so far. things such that spanking babies will fuck them up later on and that spanking children and making it a habit to do so over a long period of time can also fuck them up. but that's not surprising. in my opinion if a parent needs to resort to physical disciplining such as spanking it better do its job. as in if they have to rely on it all the time and it doesn't work they are not doing something right. and if they continue to do so at the expensve of the children's psyche then yes it is wrong and it is abuse but here in the video that is posted we see one act of physical disciplining , coporal punishment, whatever u want to call it. and in this one act the father says that "it has come to this" implying that it was a last resort of sorts. on top of this the girl is 16 years old and clearly passing the boundaries that her parents have lain down for her. so just from the context of the video and from what i've skimmed through on your articles nothing i've read really seems ot defeat my point that parents, if absolutely need be, should be able to physically spank their kids booties. of c i agree that babies should not be spanked as a form of discipline - they're babies what do they understand ! and yes i agree that spanking long term will cause problems in the children because it means that the parents are full of fail anyways if they cannot resolve their children's conflict even when resorting to violence, and more so but it is a good solution in the short term and when used sparingly it can be a good thing. obviously this does not cross the abuse threshold where trauma is experienced and things get messy. Do you have any evidence for your claim that it can be a good thing when used sparingly? well from the article that the person i was talking to yes http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ according to his sources it can be a good short term solution if used appropriately. Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression." And the sentence RIGHT after that says it's very ineffective longterm. yep i agree spanking is ineffective in the longterm. if u were paying any attention u would have heard me said that just halfway up this page. I'm sorry, I don't have the time or patience to read through all the garbage you're spouting. i know that you wouldn't want to be proved wrong. you're much too much too afraid of that.
Same could be said for you, "bro"
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On November 02 2011 19:42 teddyoojo wrote:didnt watch the video, over the time i learned i shouldnt be watching videos from teamliquid  why did she wait a couple of years? i dont understand
Why do people wait 20 years to come out about sexual abuse? I recently met a 40 yr old who had only come out about her sexual abuse because her ex-husband outed her in the hopes she would commit suicide and leave him the kids (not that she was stopping him from seeing them, he wouldnt even leave the house.)
I had to rescue my fiance from an arranged marriage that had her being beaten every day. I was the only person she told over the course of 4 years. Simply because i was the only man who showed her that much care and attention (and this was only in a workplace, nothing actually "sexual"). The only reason she came out to the world? He stalked us, turned up and smacked her straight in the face while we were walking to work one day, screaming in sinhalese. I battered this man black and blue which turned into a huge court case where all charges against me were dropped in the hopes he would get off, he was deported from the UK, i got off with nothing.
People who suffer abuse dont want to tell the fucking world about it.
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stop beating your children pandabee
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On November 02 2011 19:48 pandaBee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 19:47 Paperplane wrote:On November 02 2011 19:45 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:44 Paperplane wrote:On November 02 2011 19:41 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:39 arbitrageur wrote:On November 02 2011 19:34 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:24 AnatheKing wrote:On November 02 2011 19:22 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:16 Capped wrote:
[quote]
You are fucking condoning it, you are defending his actions.
I work with kids day in day out and i see the effects of what this bullshit does. So dont fuck me around and say i have no actual "view" on the situation.
I have already explained all my views on physical punishment and how far over the line this shit is, a whip is a weapon, being used on a child.
You are scum, worse then shit and you are probably this way because you suffered the same or worse then this girl did, much like the others sound who defend his actions in this thread.
I cant fucking believe humanity right now, sick twisted fuck. for every kid that you've worked with i can find ten that have been spanked as kids that function just fine right now. no problems at all whatsoever. ignorant people ignorant conclusions. calling me bad names won't change my opinions you are only hurting your own cause friend. if you're trying to convince me that is The ones who are doing fine are doing it DESPITE the abuse, not in any way because of. And why are you ignoring the research you asked for? I can post again if you like: http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ : "Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression."" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915100941.htm : "Spanking 1-year-olds leads to more aggressive behaviors and less sophisticated cognitive development in the next two years." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090924231749.htm : "Children who are spanked have lower IQs worldwide, including in the United States" http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin5.htm : "The researchers found that the children which were spanked the most as 3 to 5 year olds exhibited higher levels of anti-social behavior when observed 2 and 4 years later. This included higher levels of hitting siblings, hitting other children in school, defying parents, and ignoring parental rules." http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.htmlhttp://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior/spanking/10-reasons-not-hit-your-childhttp://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/talk/discipline.html okay i apologize i do not have the time to read through all of the articles in full detail but i did skim most of them and from the things i've read i'm not surprised. i agree with most of what i've seen so far. things such that spanking babies will fuck them up later on and that spanking children and making it a habit to do so over a long period of time can also fuck them up. but that's not surprising. in my opinion if a parent needs to resort to physical disciplining such as spanking it better do its job. as in if they have to rely on it all the time and it doesn't work they are not doing something right. and if they continue to do so at the expensve of the children's psyche then yes it is wrong and it is abuse but here in the video that is posted we see one act of physical disciplining , coporal punishment, whatever u want to call it. and in this one act the father says that "it has come to this" implying that it was a last resort of sorts. on top of this the girl is 16 years old and clearly passing the boundaries that her parents have lain down for her. so just from the context of the video and from what i've skimmed through on your articles nothing i've read really seems ot defeat my point that parents, if absolutely need be, should be able to physically spank their kids booties. of c i agree that babies should not be spanked as a form of discipline - they're babies what do they understand ! and yes i agree that spanking long term will cause problems in the children because it means that the parents are full of fail anyways if they cannot resolve their children's conflict even when resorting to violence, and more so but it is a good solution in the short term and when used sparingly it can be a good thing. obviously this does not cross the abuse threshold where trauma is experienced and things get messy. Do you have any evidence for your claim that it can be a good thing when used sparingly? well from the article that the person i was talking to yes http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ according to his sources it can be a good short term solution if used appropriately. Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression." And the sentence RIGHT after that says it's very ineffective longterm. yep i agree spanking is ineffective in the longterm. if u were paying any attention u would have heard me said that just halfway up this page. I'm sorry, I don't have the time or patience to read through all the garbage you're spouting. that's fine with me bro. i know that you wouldn't want to be proved wrong. you're much too much too afraid of that. in actuality my views do not differ from most of yours, but people sure like to think they do ! without even reading my points nonetheless
So wtf is your point? You seem to like giving ambiguous answers while changing your argument quite often. If you don't have anything else to say you can just stop trying to argue with people over nothing.
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On November 02 2011 19:48 arbitrageur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 19:45 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:44 Paperplane wrote:On November 02 2011 19:41 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:39 arbitrageur wrote:On November 02 2011 19:34 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:24 AnatheKing wrote:On November 02 2011 19:22 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:16 Capped wrote:On November 02 2011 19:11 pandaBee wrote:
[quote]
im not condoning abuse in any way. but then again im not condoning people who aren't parents criticizing people who actually Are parents and have to make these decisions - whether they seem good or bad - on a daily basis. do u think parents like to resort to physical disciplining? ofc u can argue that it is not necessary but depending on what culture u are from and who u are it is a part of growing up. clearly the man says that it was a last resort and that she had c rossed the line several times for it to have come to this. You are fucking condoning it, you are defending his actions. I work with kids day in day out and i see the effects of what this bullshit does. So dont fuck me around and say i have no actual "view" on the situation. I have already explained all my views on physical punishment and how far over the line this shit is, a whip is a weapon, being used on a child. You are scum, worse then shit and you are probably this way because you suffered the same or worse then this girl did, much like the others sound who defend his actions in this thread. I cant fucking believe humanity right now, sick twisted fuck. for every kid that you've worked with i can find ten that have been spanked as kids that function just fine right now. no problems at all whatsoever. ignorant people ignorant conclusions. calling me bad names won't change my opinions you are only hurting your own cause friend. if you're trying to convince me that is The ones who are doing fine are doing it DESPITE the abuse, not in any way because of. And why are you ignoring the research you asked for? I can post again if you like: http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ : "Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression."" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915100941.htm : "Spanking 1-year-olds leads to more aggressive behaviors and less sophisticated cognitive development in the next two years." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090924231749.htm : "Children who are spanked have lower IQs worldwide, including in the United States" http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin5.htm : "The researchers found that the children which were spanked the most as 3 to 5 year olds exhibited higher levels of anti-social behavior when observed 2 and 4 years later. This included higher levels of hitting siblings, hitting other children in school, defying parents, and ignoring parental rules." http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.htmlhttp://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior/spanking/10-reasons-not-hit-your-childhttp://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/talk/discipline.html okay i apologize i do not have the time to read through all of the articles in full detail but i did skim most of them and from the things i've read i'm not surprised. i agree with most of what i've seen so far. things such that spanking babies will fuck them up later on and that spanking children and making it a habit to do so over a long period of time can also fuck them up. but that's not surprising. in my opinion if a parent needs to resort to physical disciplining such as spanking it better do its job. as in if they have to rely on it all the time and it doesn't work they are not doing something right. and if they continue to do so at the expensve of the children's psyche then yes it is wrong and it is abuse but here in the video that is posted we see one act of physical disciplining , coporal punishment, whatever u want to call it. and in this one act the father says that "it has come to this" implying that it was a last resort of sorts. on top of this the girl is 16 years old and clearly passing the boundaries that her parents have lain down for her. so just from the context of the video and from what i've skimmed through on your articles nothing i've read really seems ot defeat my point that parents, if absolutely need be, should be able to physically spank their kids booties. of c i agree that babies should not be spanked as a form of discipline - they're babies what do they understand ! and yes i agree that spanking long term will cause problems in the children because it means that the parents are full of fail anyways if they cannot resolve their children's conflict even when resorting to violence, and more so but it is a good solution in the short term and when used sparingly it can be a good thing. obviously this does not cross the abuse threshold where trauma is experienced and things get messy. Do you have any evidence for your claim that it can be a good thing when used sparingly? well from the article that the person i was talking to yes http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ according to his sources it can be a good short term solution if used appropriately. Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression." And the sentence RIGHT after that says it's very ineffective longterm. yep i agree spanking is ineffective in the longterm. if u were paying any attention u would have heard me said that just halfway up this page. for all i'm concerned if parents spank their children repeatedly for a long period of time without any good changes to the child then thats quickly just turning into unintentional abuse and it is bad for the kid. But let's remember that the ability for spanking to stop target behavior should not be the criteria used to judge its success. I could cut off my child's leg and this would stop him teasing his brother. The efficacy of this punishment, clearly, cannot be judged by whether or not it stops the behavior we want to stop. We should judge it based on the long term impact it has on the child's mental health.
Obviously overall discipline should seek long term improvement. i agree with that. that's not to rule out spanking or punishments like it just because it's not pretty. it still has a place in disciplining your children. if it ever comes down to that that is
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On November 02 2011 19:45 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 19:37 ryanAnger wrote:On November 02 2011 19:35 Starscreamz wrote:
ryanAnger contradicts so many of his own points that I'm not going to dissect if for you. TL;DR version for you; your parents beat you apparently with 2x4, you claim you're fucked up, but really, don't call these "types" (acceptable?) mean names. No, if you'd actually take the time to read the post, the person I was quoting was calling people like me "sick twisted fucks" because they acknowledge there is a difference between corporal punishment and physical abuse. Are the people who beat their children in such a vicious manner "sick twisted fucks"? Yeah, they are. So are people who deem it acceptable and are likely to repeat the act on their children. My point exactly. Do not take this the wrong way but your father is quite obviously one of those people, you think that its ok just because what you got was worse? then what i said stands.. If you dont think its ok and its wrong, then nothing i said applies to you. Your not a sick twisted fuck for getting beaten as a minor but believing it acceptable and repeating it makes you one. Its probably not your fault because of what happened to change you into that way, and its the way it stays in our cultures and spreads tbh.
Heh, actually, I believe in the concept of "no punishment". Positive reinforcement trumps punishment 100% of the time, guaranteed. It's helped me out a lot since I joined the United States Air Force. My kids aren't going to have stupid, arbitrary rules like no watching TV before 8pm (and example of one of my old rules).
But if your kid takes your car without asking and then causes a wreck, would hitting them ONE TIME with the belt be okay? It might be. I don't know. It's not my place to judge. But I can't really think of a way to "positively reinforce" your child into not stealing your car and crashing it.
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On November 02 2011 19:51 Zidane wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 19:48 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:47 Paperplane wrote:On November 02 2011 19:45 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:44 Paperplane wrote:On November 02 2011 19:41 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:39 arbitrageur wrote:On November 02 2011 19:34 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:24 AnatheKing wrote:On November 02 2011 19:22 pandaBee wrote:[quote] for every kid that you've worked with i can find ten that have been spanked as kids that function just fine right now. no problems at all whatsoever. ignorant people ignorant conclusions. calling me bad names won't change my opinions you are only hurting your own cause friend. if you're trying to convince me that is The ones who are doing fine are doing it DESPITE the abuse, not in any way because of. And why are you ignoring the research you asked for? I can post again if you like: http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ : "Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression."" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915100941.htm : "Spanking 1-year-olds leads to more aggressive behaviors and less sophisticated cognitive development in the next two years." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090924231749.htm : "Children who are spanked have lower IQs worldwide, including in the United States" http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin5.htm : "The researchers found that the children which were spanked the most as 3 to 5 year olds exhibited higher levels of anti-social behavior when observed 2 and 4 years later. This included higher levels of hitting siblings, hitting other children in school, defying parents, and ignoring parental rules." http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.htmlhttp://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior/spanking/10-reasons-not-hit-your-childhttp://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/talk/discipline.html okay i apologize i do not have the time to read through all of the articles in full detail but i did skim most of them and from the things i've read i'm not surprised. i agree with most of what i've seen so far. things such that spanking babies will fuck them up later on and that spanking children and making it a habit to do so over a long period of time can also fuck them up. but that's not surprising. in my opinion if a parent needs to resort to physical disciplining such as spanking it better do its job. as in if they have to rely on it all the time and it doesn't work they are not doing something right. and if they continue to do so at the expensve of the children's psyche then yes it is wrong and it is abuse but here in the video that is posted we see one act of physical disciplining , coporal punishment, whatever u want to call it. and in this one act the father says that "it has come to this" implying that it was a last resort of sorts. on top of this the girl is 16 years old and clearly passing the boundaries that her parents have lain down for her. so just from the context of the video and from what i've skimmed through on your articles nothing i've read really seems ot defeat my point that parents, if absolutely need be, should be able to physically spank their kids booties. of c i agree that babies should not be spanked as a form of discipline - they're babies what do they understand ! and yes i agree that spanking long term will cause problems in the children because it means that the parents are full of fail anyways if they cannot resolve their children's conflict even when resorting to violence, and more so but it is a good solution in the short term and when used sparingly it can be a good thing. obviously this does not cross the abuse threshold where trauma is experienced and things get messy. Do you have any evidence for your claim that it can be a good thing when used sparingly? well from the article that the person i was talking to yes http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ according to his sources it can be a good short term solution if used appropriately. Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression." And the sentence RIGHT after that says it's very ineffective longterm. yep i agree spanking is ineffective in the longterm. if u were paying any attention u would have heard me said that just halfway up this page. I'm sorry, I don't have the time or patience to read through all the garbage you're spouting. that's fine with me bro. i know that you wouldn't want to be proved wrong. you're much too much too afraid of that. in actuality my views do not differ from most of yours, but people sure like to think they do ! without even reading my points nonetheless So wtf is your point? You seem to like giving ambiguous answers while changing your argument quite often. If you don't have anything else to say you can just stop trying to argue with people over nothing.
actually most of my posts are made in response to people who accuse me of condoning child abuse. doesn't really have to do with my points at all. i'm being reactive not provocative here.
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On November 02 2011 19:51 pandaBee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 19:48 arbitrageur wrote:On November 02 2011 19:45 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:44 Paperplane wrote:On November 02 2011 19:41 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:39 arbitrageur wrote:On November 02 2011 19:34 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:24 AnatheKing wrote:On November 02 2011 19:22 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:16 Capped wrote:
[quote]
You are fucking condoning it, you are defending his actions.
I work with kids day in day out and i see the effects of what this bullshit does. So dont fuck me around and say i have no actual "view" on the situation.
I have already explained all my views on physical punishment and how far over the line this shit is, a whip is a weapon, being used on a child.
You are scum, worse then shit and you are probably this way because you suffered the same or worse then this girl did, much like the others sound who defend his actions in this thread.
I cant fucking believe humanity right now, sick twisted fuck. for every kid that you've worked with i can find ten that have been spanked as kids that function just fine right now. no problems at all whatsoever. ignorant people ignorant conclusions. calling me bad names won't change my opinions you are only hurting your own cause friend. if you're trying to convince me that is The ones who are doing fine are doing it DESPITE the abuse, not in any way because of. And why are you ignoring the research you asked for? I can post again if you like: http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ : "Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression."" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915100941.htm : "Spanking 1-year-olds leads to more aggressive behaviors and less sophisticated cognitive development in the next two years." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090924231749.htm : "Children who are spanked have lower IQs worldwide, including in the United States" http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin5.htm : "The researchers found that the children which were spanked the most as 3 to 5 year olds exhibited higher levels of anti-social behavior when observed 2 and 4 years later. This included higher levels of hitting siblings, hitting other children in school, defying parents, and ignoring parental rules." http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.htmlhttp://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior/spanking/10-reasons-not-hit-your-childhttp://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/talk/discipline.html okay i apologize i do not have the time to read through all of the articles in full detail but i did skim most of them and from the things i've read i'm not surprised. i agree with most of what i've seen so far. things such that spanking babies will fuck them up later on and that spanking children and making it a habit to do so over a long period of time can also fuck them up. but that's not surprising. in my opinion if a parent needs to resort to physical disciplining such as spanking it better do its job. as in if they have to rely on it all the time and it doesn't work they are not doing something right. and if they continue to do so at the expensve of the children's psyche then yes it is wrong and it is abuse but here in the video that is posted we see one act of physical disciplining , coporal punishment, whatever u want to call it. and in this one act the father says that "it has come to this" implying that it was a last resort of sorts. on top of this the girl is 16 years old and clearly passing the boundaries that her parents have lain down for her. so just from the context of the video and from what i've skimmed through on your articles nothing i've read really seems ot defeat my point that parents, if absolutely need be, should be able to physically spank their kids booties. of c i agree that babies should not be spanked as a form of discipline - they're babies what do they understand ! and yes i agree that spanking long term will cause problems in the children because it means that the parents are full of fail anyways if they cannot resolve their children's conflict even when resorting to violence, and more so but it is a good solution in the short term and when used sparingly it can be a good thing. obviously this does not cross the abuse threshold where trauma is experienced and things get messy. Do you have any evidence for your claim that it can be a good thing when used sparingly? well from the article that the person i was talking to yes http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ according to his sources it can be a good short term solution if used appropriately. Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression." And the sentence RIGHT after that says it's very ineffective longterm. yep i agree spanking is ineffective in the longterm. if u were paying any attention u would have heard me said that just halfway up this page. for all i'm concerned if parents spank their children repeatedly for a long period of time without any good changes to the child then thats quickly just turning into unintentional abuse and it is bad for the kid. But let's remember that the ability for spanking to stop target behavior should not be the criteria used to judge its success. I could cut off my child's leg and this would stop him teasing his brother. The efficacy of this punishment, clearly, cannot be judged by whether or not it stops the behavior we want to stop. We should judge it based on the long term impact it has on the child's mental health. Obviously overall discipline should seek long term improvement. i agree with that. that's not to rule out spanking or punishments like it just because it's not pretty. it still has a place in disciplining your children. if it ever comes down to that that is
i completely agree with everything you've just said. But for now I think a sensibly null hypothesis is that any form of physical violence is bad for a child's future mental health. I am completely open to the possibility that light spanking can be beneficial to a child's mental health, but this is not the null hypothesis: I need evidence that this is the case before I would consider this as good.
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What the fuck, that absolutely twisted my stomach. Some people doesn't deserve having children.
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On November 02 2011 19:53 arbitrageur wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 19:51 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:48 arbitrageur wrote:On November 02 2011 19:45 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:44 Paperplane wrote:On November 02 2011 19:41 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:39 arbitrageur wrote:On November 02 2011 19:34 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:24 AnatheKing wrote:On November 02 2011 19:22 pandaBee wrote:[quote] for every kid that you've worked with i can find ten that have been spanked as kids that function just fine right now. no problems at all whatsoever. ignorant people ignorant conclusions. calling me bad names won't change my opinions you are only hurting your own cause friend. if you're trying to convince me that is The ones who are doing fine are doing it DESPITE the abuse, not in any way because of. And why are you ignoring the research you asked for? I can post again if you like: http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ : "Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression."" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915100941.htm : "Spanking 1-year-olds leads to more aggressive behaviors and less sophisticated cognitive development in the next two years." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090924231749.htm : "Children who are spanked have lower IQs worldwide, including in the United States" http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin5.htm : "The researchers found that the children which were spanked the most as 3 to 5 year olds exhibited higher levels of anti-social behavior when observed 2 and 4 years later. This included higher levels of hitting siblings, hitting other children in school, defying parents, and ignoring parental rules." http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.htmlhttp://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior/spanking/10-reasons-not-hit-your-childhttp://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/talk/discipline.html okay i apologize i do not have the time to read through all of the articles in full detail but i did skim most of them and from the things i've read i'm not surprised. i agree with most of what i've seen so far. things such that spanking babies will fuck them up later on and that spanking children and making it a habit to do so over a long period of time can also fuck them up. but that's not surprising. in my opinion if a parent needs to resort to physical disciplining such as spanking it better do its job. as in if they have to rely on it all the time and it doesn't work they are not doing something right. and if they continue to do so at the expensve of the children's psyche then yes it is wrong and it is abuse but here in the video that is posted we see one act of physical disciplining , coporal punishment, whatever u want to call it. and in this one act the father says that "it has come to this" implying that it was a last resort of sorts. on top of this the girl is 16 years old and clearly passing the boundaries that her parents have lain down for her. so just from the context of the video and from what i've skimmed through on your articles nothing i've read really seems ot defeat my point that parents, if absolutely need be, should be able to physically spank their kids booties. of c i agree that babies should not be spanked as a form of discipline - they're babies what do they understand ! and yes i agree that spanking long term will cause problems in the children because it means that the parents are full of fail anyways if they cannot resolve their children's conflict even when resorting to violence, and more so but it is a good solution in the short term and when used sparingly it can be a good thing. obviously this does not cross the abuse threshold where trauma is experienced and things get messy. Do you have any evidence for your claim that it can be a good thing when used sparingly? well from the article that the person i was talking to yes http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ according to his sources it can be a good short term solution if used appropriately. Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression." And the sentence RIGHT after that says it's very ineffective longterm. yep i agree spanking is ineffective in the longterm. if u were paying any attention u would have heard me said that just halfway up this page. for all i'm concerned if parents spank their children repeatedly for a long period of time without any good changes to the child then thats quickly just turning into unintentional abuse and it is bad for the kid. But let's remember that the ability for spanking to stop target behavior should not be the criteria used to judge its success. I could cut off my child's leg and this would stop him teasing his brother. The efficacy of this punishment, clearly, cannot be judged by whether or not it stops the behavior we want to stop. We should judge it based on the long term impact it has on the child's mental health. Obviously overall discipline should seek long term improvement. i agree with that. that's not to rule out spanking or punishments like it just because it's not pretty. it still has a place in disciplining your children. if it ever comes down to that that is i completely agree with everything you've just said. But for now I think a sensibly null hypothesis is that any form of physical violence is bad for a child's future mental health. I am completely open to the possibility that light spanking can be beneficial to a child's mental health, but this is not the null hypothesis: I need evidence that this is the case before I would consider this as good.
well i have never cared enough to research on this matter so i cannot offer you any scientific empirical evidence, only anecdotes and observations that i have made both with respect to myself and my associates.
which is why i said in one of my other posts that for every child u can cite that has suffered mental trauma i can acually recalll several from my own experience that although they have undergone physical disciplining they are fine healthy individuals as of now. and they grew up well.
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I tried watching it, but when she started crying, nope. This is absolutely horrible and I fully support the people trying to bring this son of a bitch to justice.
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On November 02 2011 19:52 ryanAnger wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 19:45 Capped wrote:On November 02 2011 19:37 ryanAnger wrote:On November 02 2011 19:35 Starscreamz wrote:
ryanAnger contradicts so many of his own points that I'm not going to dissect if for you. TL;DR version for you; your parents beat you apparently with 2x4, you claim you're fucked up, but really, don't call these "types" (acceptable?) mean names. No, if you'd actually take the time to read the post, the person I was quoting was calling people like me "sick twisted fucks" because they acknowledge there is a difference between corporal punishment and physical abuse. Are the people who beat their children in such a vicious manner "sick twisted fucks"? Yeah, they are. So are people who deem it acceptable and are likely to repeat the act on their children. My point exactly. Do not take this the wrong way but your father is quite obviously one of those people, you think that its ok just because what you got was worse? then what i said stands.. If you dont think its ok and its wrong, then nothing i said applies to you. Your not a sick twisted fuck for getting beaten as a minor but believing it acceptable and repeating it makes you one. Its probably not your fault because of what happened to change you into that way, and its the way it stays in our cultures and spreads tbh. Heh, actually, I believe in the concept of "no punishment". Positive reinforcement trumps punishment 100% of the time, guaranteed. It's helped me out a lot since I joined the United States Air Force. My kids aren't going to have stupid, arbitrary rules like no watching TV before 8pm (and example of one of my old rules). But, I still think that if your kid takes your car without asking and then causes a wreck, would hitting them ONE TIME with the belt be okay? It might be. I don't know. It's not my place to judge.
Ive expressed views with smacking kids, to a limit its acceptable discipline - ive had this myself and witnessed it with friends and family, seriously its nothing and it teaches the kid a lesson (albeit short term etc) im talking a few hand slaps to the ass, wrists etc. Not kicks, punches, weapons at full force
I personally dont agree with the use of a belt or any other form of "weapon" for a child - i suppose the effect is reduced for the older children (like in your case taking your car, not really achievable by a 5 yr old) but for me i still dont like it.
But as i stated, i did not mean you when i made my comment and i apologise if it came across that way.
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So this guy is in charge of the process that can lead someone to be executed, right?
I understand some stuff suddenly.
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That guy would go to jail in Sweden, that's for sure. I mean why can you beat your kid up but not another grown up person or even an animal, I don't think it would be legal to treat an animal like that.
On November 02 2011 19:58 Biff The Understudy wrote:
So this guy is in charge of the process that can lead someone to be executed, right?
I understand some stuff suddenly.
Yeah.. Ive always thought it would take a seriously morally retarded person to do that in today's society..
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Corporal punishment is outdated and barbaric, it is absolutely illegal here, as it should be everywhere. The line between 'discipline' and abuse is easily crossed, there is no need to hit a child, and if you think there is you are not fit to be a parent. I don't care how often your lovely father beat you or how 'fine' you think you turned out to be.
What this guy did goes way beyond corporal punishment, it is assault of a minor and should land you in prison. If you can't imagine the traumatic impact this has on a 16 year old, you hardly qualify as human, seriously, fuck you.
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I got corporal punishment from my parents too, but they never enjoyed it.
But this guy, he enjoys it. This is abuse. That's a true scumbag and the fact that he seems to have some power inside judiciary makes me sad. It hope you people in the USA can get rid of this guy, he doesn't deserve any power nor should he hold this position. Good Luck.
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On November 02 2011 19:57 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 19:52 ryanAnger wrote:On November 02 2011 19:45 Capped wrote:On November 02 2011 19:37 ryanAnger wrote:On November 02 2011 19:35 Starscreamz wrote:
ryanAnger contradicts so many of his own points that I'm not going to dissect if for you. TL;DR version for you; your parents beat you apparently with 2x4, you claim you're fucked up, but really, don't call these "types" (acceptable?) mean names. No, if you'd actually take the time to read the post, the person I was quoting was calling people like me "sick twisted fucks" because they acknowledge there is a difference between corporal punishment and physical abuse. Are the people who beat their children in such a vicious manner "sick twisted fucks"? Yeah, they are. So are people who deem it acceptable and are likely to repeat the act on their children. My point exactly. Do not take this the wrong way but your father is quite obviously one of those people, you think that its ok just because what you got was worse? then what i said stands.. If you dont think its ok and its wrong, then nothing i said applies to you. Your not a sick twisted fuck for getting beaten as a minor but believing it acceptable and repeating it makes you one. Its probably not your fault because of what happened to change you into that way, and its the way it stays in our cultures and spreads tbh. Heh, actually, I believe in the concept of "no punishment". Positive reinforcement trumps punishment 100% of the time, guaranteed. It's helped me out a lot since I joined the United States Air Force. My kids aren't going to have stupid, arbitrary rules like no watching TV before 8pm (and example of one of my old rules). But, I still think that if your kid takes your car without asking and then causes a wreck, would hitting them ONE TIME with the belt be okay? It might be. I don't know. It's not my place to judge. Ive expressed views with smacking kids, to a limit its acceptable discipline - ive had this myself and witnessed it with friends and family, seriously its nothing and it teaches the kid a lesson (albeit short term etc) im talking a few hand slaps to the ass, wrists etc. Not kicks, punches, weapons at full force I personally dont agree with the use of a belt or any other form of "weapon" for a child - i suppose the effect is reduced for the older children (like in your case taking your car, not really achievable by a 5 yr old) but for me i still dont like it. But as i stated, i did not mean you when i made my comment and i apologise if it came across that way.
Yeah, the effect is very reduced for older kids. By the time I was 12 I could take about 10 hits with the belt without flinching, tearing up, or making a sound. That's why I was "upgraded" to worse things. But I was hit with it habitually. With that said, I'm of the belief that one whack with the belt (between ages 12-18 or so) is not bad. In all honesty, it amounts to less pain than hitting your shins on the edge of a coffee table or stubbing your toe. My opinions might be very skewed but I don't think that makes me a bad person. It just means I have different opinions.
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On November 02 2011 19:55 pandaBee wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 19:53 arbitrageur wrote:On November 02 2011 19:51 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:48 arbitrageur wrote:On November 02 2011 19:45 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:44 Paperplane wrote:On November 02 2011 19:41 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:39 arbitrageur wrote:On November 02 2011 19:34 pandaBee wrote:On November 02 2011 19:24 AnatheKing wrote:[quote] The ones who are doing fine are doing it DESPITE the abuse, not in any way because of. And why are you ignoring the research you asked for? I can post again if you like: http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ : "Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression."" http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090915100941.htm : "Spanking 1-year-olds leads to more aggressive behaviors and less sophisticated cognitive development in the next two years." http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/09/090924231749.htm : "Children who are spanked have lower IQs worldwide, including in the United States" http://www.religioustolerance.org/spankin5.htm : "The researchers found that the children which were spanked the most as 3 to 5 year olds exhibited higher levels of anti-social behavior when observed 2 and 4 years later. This included higher levels of hitting siblings, hitting other children in school, defying parents, and ignoring parental rules." http://www.naturalchild.org/jan_hunt/tenreasons.htmlhttp://www.askdrsears.com/topics/discipline-behavior/spanking/10-reasons-not-hit-your-childhttp://kidshealth.org/parent/positive/talk/discipline.html okay i apologize i do not have the time to read through all of the articles in full detail but i did skim most of them and from the things i've read i'm not surprised. i agree with most of what i've seen so far. things such that spanking babies will fuck them up later on and that spanking children and making it a habit to do so over a long period of time can also fuck them up. but that's not surprising. in my opinion if a parent needs to resort to physical disciplining such as spanking it better do its job. as in if they have to rely on it all the time and it doesn't work they are not doing something right. and if they continue to do so at the expensve of the children's psyche then yes it is wrong and it is abuse but here in the video that is posted we see one act of physical disciplining , coporal punishment, whatever u want to call it. and in this one act the father says that "it has come to this" implying that it was a last resort of sorts. on top of this the girl is 16 years old and clearly passing the boundaries that her parents have lain down for her. so just from the context of the video and from what i've skimmed through on your articles nothing i've read really seems ot defeat my point that parents, if absolutely need be, should be able to physically spank their kids booties. of c i agree that babies should not be spanked as a form of discipline - they're babies what do they understand ! and yes i agree that spanking long term will cause problems in the children because it means that the parents are full of fail anyways if they cannot resolve their children's conflict even when resorting to violence, and more so but it is a good solution in the short term and when used sparingly it can be a good thing. obviously this does not cross the abuse threshold where trauma is experienced and things get messy. Do you have any evidence for your claim that it can be a good thing when used sparingly? well from the article that the person i was talking to yes http://healthland.time.com/2011/06/28/would-you-record-yourself-spanking-your-kids/ according to his sources it can be a good short term solution if used appropriately. Moms and dads who spank do so because they believe it's effective, and research actually shows that it is — in the short-term. A child reaching for a tempting object will stop if he gets swatted. "It does work in the immediate moment, but beyond that, in most cases, it's very ineffective," says Holden. "The most common long-term consequence is that children learn to use aggression." And the sentence RIGHT after that says it's very ineffective longterm. yep i agree spanking is ineffective in the longterm. if u were paying any attention u would have heard me said that just halfway up this page. for all i'm concerned if parents spank their children repeatedly for a long period of time without any good changes to the child then thats quickly just turning into unintentional abuse and it is bad for the kid. But let's remember that the ability for spanking to stop target behavior should not be the criteria used to judge its success. I could cut off my child's leg and this would stop him teasing his brother. The efficacy of this punishment, clearly, cannot be judged by whether or not it stops the behavior we want to stop. We should judge it based on the long term impact it has on the child's mental health. Obviously overall discipline should seek long term improvement. i agree with that. that's not to rule out spanking or punishments like it just because it's not pretty. it still has a place in disciplining your children. if it ever comes down to that that is i completely agree with everything you've just said. But for now I think a sensibly null hypothesis is that any form of physical violence is bad for a child's future mental health. I am completely open to the possibility that light spanking can be beneficial to a child's mental health, but this is not the null hypothesis: I need evidence that this is the case before I would consider this as good. well i have never cared enough to research on this matter so i cannot offer you any scientific empirical evidence, only anecdotes and observations that i have made both with respect to myself and my associates. which is why i said in one of my other posts that for every child u can cite that has suffered mental trauma i can acually recalll several from my own experience that although they have undergone physical disciplining they are fine healthy individuals as of now. and they grew up well.
Perhaps light spanking is a reasonable null hypothesis to operate your parenting around. I'll have find some relevant research to develop my thinking on this.
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Oh wow, so the mother is actually gonna get out of this using the "I was abused too" card? That's fucking weak. She's just as bad or maybe even worse for standing there watching and sometimes even helping when her husband is beating the shit out of her daughter. I wish them both the worst.
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EPT
