On November 30 2012 21:58 WhiteDog wrote: The sad part is that the overwhelming majority of countries voted for the Palestinians in this matter. In the world, there are basically two nations who think Israel is a respectable country : the US and Israel itself (and some other minor countries who act as the US want them to).
This remark on minor nations reminded me; what do you guys think about the UK's stance in this vote?
Isn't it just an outrage they demanded Palestine would not bring any Israeli's to the ICC? To me it sounds like admitting that the Israeli are the worst war criminals ever, but they're our buddies and you can't sue them. How could anyone demand something like this? How dare Britain put themselves above the law? It's not up to them to decide... this is the whole reason we have an international court system. The judge will decide whether or not these people are guilty.
UK's stance in anything is just not understandable. They are always torn between their european ties and their affiliation with the US. Look how they act in regards to Europe (they are in, but not too much). Culturally they're more european than Americans (we're so close to them, I can be in London in 2 hours... and there is no difference aside from the fact that they speak english and that their girls are easier than ours) but I suppose for economic reasons they prefer to back up the US.
On November 02 2011 00:44 konadora wrote: uh, what kind of stupid law is that that forces a government to cut financial ties to a global organisation because of one country? on what basis?
It would be from their relation with Israel almost certainly.
sorry i'm not really into politics, but what was the relation between the US, israel and palestine? genuinely curious.
The super abridged version?
Israel and Palestine don't like eachother. Israel used to be small, Palestine used to be big. Now it's the opposite.
Check out this picture
Make sense?
holy... how on earth did that even happen and no one raised the issue over the course of decades?
pretty much the same way this happened:
do people care that Germany lost half its land over the past 100 years? Not really. You lose the war, you lose your land, winner takes all (sad enough the loss of land after WW1 was quite a part of the reason for Hitler to get power in the first place).
So how did Israel did get that big? They were attacked (or landed a preemptive first strike when there was clearly an attack incoming), won all their wars, and took some land every time. They were even nice enough to give the entire sinaii semi island back to Egypt just to make peace, even though they really could use some more land. If they wouldn't have won their wars, they would be wiped out completely by now.
Those situations are not comparable at all. Germany fought an offensive war, in an attempt to gain "living space" and exterminate several nations and enslave any remnants.
Arabs fought a defensive war, or at least as close as it gets to a defensive war in this situation.
You want a fitting analogy? The situation is much closer to the partition of Poland. Would Poland be at fault if it waged war against its oppressors? Would it no longer be entitled to its territory had it lost decisively like Arab nations did? Of course not...
I really don't understand people trying to argue out which side is the one that is entitled to the land. When is it going to sink in that it doesn't even matter who's entitled to the land?
What do you people think this will achieve? Really?
Like, do you think there is any argumen that will make all the Israelis go "Ooooooh, now I get it" after which they disband the state of Israel?
Is there any argument that will make the Palestinians do the same?
We all know that isn't going to happen. Which side is right doesn't matter, because even if a side is proven wrong, it's not going to abandon it's cause.
If this is the route you take, where one side is right, and the other is wrong, then you need to acknowledge that perpetual war will be the result.
Doing justice, for either side, means perpetual warfare.
The solution is meeting in the middle, slowly, step by step, building up trust.
This argument over whom is entitled to the land is both pointless, and ultimately dangerous and destructive.
It does matter. It took over one hundred years and two world wars to do that, but Poland regained its independence. I believe Palestine will too, eventually.
But then you clearly state your intentions. War it shall be then, because no nation will permit itself to go quitely into the night.
So, whilst you cloak yourself in justice and "doing the right thing" you are in fact advocating perpetual warfare, and untold suffering for those inhabiting the region.
There can be no compromise, even if it takes two world wars and a hundred years.
You and all the others that seem to believe they can lawyer their way through this situation are nothing short of pro-war.
Passion
No it's not. Up until recently it was systematically and automatically assumed by the western world that Israel was entitled to their behaviour, and the land. The Palestines had no rights, their cause was not respected in anyway.
Until it's made clear that they've been horribly mistreated since the start, had their land stolen and their children murdered, no progress can be made.
Of course everyone knows the Israeli's will never leave, even though this is the only fair, and to be honest, sensible solution (tensions between the west and the Islamic world will persist for ages thanks to Israel).
So yea, to have fair negotiations, you do need a clear view on and analysis of the situation - even if this won't result in an absolutely fair solution.
Fair?
Israel has existed for some 50 years. Entire families have been born and raised on that land, never knowing any other place, and you want to drag them from their homes and cast them out because of the blood in their veins or the nationality on their card?
There are a lot of words that can be applied to ethnic cleansing through forced deportation. Fair isn't one that I would have ever expected to hear.
As for tensions between the west and Islam, be at ease, that has existed long before Israel came around, and should the dark day ever come, long after.
On November 30 2012 21:58 WhiteDog wrote: The sad part is that the overwhelming majority of countries voted for the Palestinians in this matter. In the world, there are basically two nations who think Israel is a respectable country : the US and Israel itself (and some other minor countries who act as the US want them to).
This remark on minor nations reminded me; what do you guys think about the UK's stance in this vote?
Isn't it just an outrage they demanded Palestine would not bring any Israeli's to the ICC? To me it sounds like admitting that the Israeli are the worst war criminals ever, but they're our buddies and you can't sue them. How could anyone demand something like this? How dare Britain put themselves above the law? It's not up to them to decide... this is the whole reason we have an international court system. The judge will decide whether or not these people are guilty.
Because the ICC is a mess and will cause problems no matter what happens. First of all it can be used as tool in the negotiations (if you dont give in to X demand we will take you to court) And lets say Israel is convicted, what then? What leaders will be convicted? what will be the implications? And then lets say that the Palestinian leaders are convicted, what then? The only solution can be reached between the 2 sides, nothing else will work.
On November 30 2012 20:54 Goozen wrote: I like how im accused of being a extremist by people who make up over 8,500+ dead civilians. To many people think they know about the conflict when in truth they dont.
As far as I know, no one here is a multi-million dollar media mongrel or a government / special interest group, no one is making up anything, they are all just trying to find sources and figuring shit out on their own. If you have sources, post them. If you have proof that posters are purposefully willfully ignorant or maliciously making things up while knowing the truth, explain why commonly cited sources are wrong.
Was talking about Passion who was pulling numbers without any source. There are fair number of people who post without having a clue or without any sources.
Goozen, my dear, I've been studying this conflict for well over 10 years now. These numbers are common knowledge, as far as I know, and I just didn't find a radical extremist like yourself worth the effort of digging it all up again. Lucky you however, as others have done so. I would say this shows I didn't pull them randomly.
That said, what's going to be the impact of Palestine now being an observer state, and how long will it take before they gain full membership? The main point right now seems to be formal recognition and the somewhat official breaking with the tradition "Palestine is bad" and "Israel is good" paradigm.
afaik, in order to gain full membership status every member of the security council has to vote in favor of it. so full membership wont happen in the near future, hence the US has a veto
Veto power is rarely used. In fact, it's almost never used. If it was pushed as far as to make a vote, the US would be forced to abstain. Using veto power in that situation would be pretty much unprecedented and would lead to lots of backlash.
On November 30 2012 20:54 Goozen wrote: I like how im accused of being a extremist by people who make up over 8,500+ dead civilians. To many people think they know about the conflict when in truth they dont.
As far as I know, no one here is a multi-million dollar media mongrel or a government / special interest group, no one is making up anything, they are all just trying to find sources and figuring shit out on their own. If you have sources, post them. If you have proof that posters are purposefully willfully ignorant or maliciously making things up while knowing the truth, explain why commonly cited sources are wrong.
Was talking about Passion who was pulling numbers without any source. There are fair number of people who post without having a clue or without any sources.
Goozen, my dear, I've been studying this conflict for well over 10 years now. These numbers are common knowledge, as far as I know, and I just didn't find a radical extremist like yourself worth the effort of digging it all up again. Lucky you however, as others have done so. I would say this shows I didn't pull them randomly.
That said, what's going to be the impact of Palestine now being an observer state, and how long will it take before they gain full membership? The main point right now seems to be formal recognition and the somewhat official breaking with the tradition "Palestine is bad" and "Israel is good" paradigm.
afaik, in order to gain full membership status every member of the security council has to vote in favor of it. so full membership wont happen in the near future, hence the US has a veto
Veto power is rarely used. In fact, it's almost never used. If it was pushed as far as to make a vote, the US would be forced to abstain. Using veto power in that situation would be pretty much unprecedented and would lead to lots of backlash.
On November 30 2012 21:58 WhiteDog wrote: The sad part is that the overwhelming majority of countries voted for the Palestinians in this matter. In the world, there are basically two nations who think Israel is a respectable country : the US and Israel itself (and some other minor countries who act as the US want them to).
This remark on minor nations reminded me; what do you guys think about the UK's stance in this vote?
Isn't it just an outrage they demanded Palestine would not bring any Israeli's to the ICC? To me it sounds like admitting that the Israeli are the worst war criminals ever, but they're our buddies and you can't sue them. How could anyone demand something like this? How dare Britain put themselves above the law? It's not up to them to decide... this is the whole reason we have an international court system. The judge will decide whether or not these people are guilty.
Because the ICC is a mess and will cause problems no matter what happens. First of all it can be used as tool in the negotiations (if you dont give in to X demand we will take you to court) And lets say Israel is convicted, what then? What leaders will be convicted? what will be the implications? And then lets say that the Palestinian leaders are convicted, what then? The only solution can be reached between the 2 sides, nothing else will work.
I really wasnt going to post in here, but dammit Goozen you really have your head so deeply stuck in your own arse you could turn a mormon into an islamist suicide bomber.
Clearly the ICC would be a "mess" for Israel as it would suddendly mean individuals become accountable for their crimes - obviously very discomforting after a few decades of random bombings, annexing of illegal territories, ethnic cleansing and generally nasty shit.
Anyway the fact that UK made this (to me completely incredible, scandalous and outrageous) request about the ICC was reason enough to fully support the palestinian cause, it's simply unacceptable that a people would be denied international justice on the grounds of.... they might make use it?
Oh yes I know Goozen, at this stage you really want to say "but!!! zey are sending rockets on our people! vee shall avenge our dead!" - but thats just because your missing the point again
On November 30 2012 20:54 Goozen wrote: I like how im accused of being a extremist by people who make up over 8,500+ dead civilians. To many people think they know about the conflict when in truth they dont.
As far as I know, no one here is a multi-million dollar media mongrel or a government / special interest group, no one is making up anything, they are all just trying to find sources and figuring shit out on their own. If you have sources, post them. If you have proof that posters are purposefully willfully ignorant or maliciously making things up while knowing the truth, explain why commonly cited sources are wrong.
Was talking about Passion who was pulling numbers without any source. There are fair number of people who post without having a clue or without any sources.
Goozen, my dear, I've been studying this conflict for well over 10 years now. These numbers are common knowledge, as far as I know, and I just didn't find a radical extremist like yourself worth the effort of digging it all up again. Lucky you however, as others have done so. I would say this shows I didn't pull them randomly.
That said, what's going to be the impact of Palestine now being an observer state, and how long will it take before they gain full membership? The main point right now seems to be formal recognition and the somewhat official breaking with the tradition "Palestine is bad" and "Israel is good" paradigm.
afaik, in order to gain full membership status every member of the security council has to vote in favor of it. so full membership wont happen in the near future, hence the US has a veto
Veto power is rarely used. In fact, it's almost never used. If it was pushed as far as to make a vote, the US would be forced to abstain. Using veto power in that situation would be pretty much unprecedented and would lead to lots of backlash.
On November 30 2012 21:58 WhiteDog wrote: The sad part is that the overwhelming majority of countries voted for the Palestinians in this matter. In the world, there are basically two nations who think Israel is a respectable country : the US and Israel itself (and some other minor countries who act as the US want them to). It's quite easy to see that even here on TL: people who defend Israel after each bombing event are either Israelis or americans. Israel, one of the most hated state in the world, still thinking everything it does is good and that this hate is just "antisemitism" because you know the US, the major superpower of our time, is backing them every time.
It's also interesting to see how every Israelis posters always bend reality and can't free themselves from their patriotism. At some point you just can't back up your country when it's doing some wild shit for fifty years. At least America came to question itself after the Viet Nam failure or the Iraq failure. From my point of view it's true patriotism to rise and question yourself. Sionist should start reading some work made by jews who suffered the 2nd ww such as Viktor Klemperer, those were great men.
See this is where I gotta say something. You have to take a step back and look at how horribly biased this has to be. The most hated country on earth? say what you want about Isreal at the end of the day its still a democracy and its only killed how many of the civilians of another country? meanwhile genocides happen every day in africa and europians like you think that somehow isreal is more evil then them. Its not like Isreal is actually blocking the PLO from becoming a state. They just think that if you want to be recognized as a state In the UN you should probably oh I don't know recognize the very real state thats next to you that you've tried to "throw into the sea" more then once. the PLO has been the party that time after time denies that they want peace and simply wants to murder all the jews in isreal. Isreal has time and time again offered land and wildly better terms then anyone else has given them and yet gets spat at.
It boggles my mind how Europe would rather support terrorists then an functioning democracy in a first world country. America learned in bosnia that The Europe won't do anything to stop genocides in their own backyards and you expect america to trust that it won't happen again?
How can Isreal be the most hated state in the world to you I have no idea. What do you think will actualy cause peace to happen? The idea that statehood for a country does not recognize the statehood for the other in peace talks would actualy help the process is ludicrousness.
On November 30 2012 21:58 WhiteDog wrote: The sad part is that the overwhelming majority of countries voted for the Palestinians in this matter. In the world, there are basically two nations who think Israel is a respectable country : the US and Israel itself (and some other minor countries who act as the US want them to). It's quite easy to see that even here on TL: people who defend Israel after each bombing event are either Israelis or americans. Israel, one of the most hated state in the world, still thinking everything it does is good and that this hate is just "antisemitism" because you know the US, the major superpower of our time, is backing them every time.
It's also interesting to see how every Israelis posters always bend reality and can't free themselves from their patriotism. At some point you just can't back up your country when it's doing some wild shit for fifty years. At least America came to question itself after the Viet Nam failure or the Iraq failure. From my point of view it's true patriotism to rise and question yourself. Sionist should start reading some work made by jews who suffered the 2nd ww such as Viktor Klemperer, those were great men.
See this is where I gotta say something. You have to take a step back and look at how horribly biased this has to be. The most hated country on earth? say what you want about Isreal at the end of the day its still a democracy and its only killed how many of the civilians of another country? meanwhile genocides happen every day in africa and europians like you think that somehow isreal is more evil then them. Its not like Isreal is actually blocking the PLO from becoming a state. They just think that if you want to be recognized as a state In the UN you should probably oh I don't know recognize the very real state thats next to you that you've tried to "throw into the sea" more then once. the PLO has been the party that time after time denies that they want peace and simply wants to murder all the jews in isreal. Isreal has time and time again offered land and wildly better terms then anyone else has given them and yet gets spat at.
It boggles my mind how Europe would rather support terrorists then an functioning democracy in a first world country. America learned in bosnia that The Europe won't do anything to stop genocides in their own backyards and you expect america to trust that it won't happen again?
How can Isreal be the most hated state in the world to you I have no idea. What do you think will actualy cause peace to happen? The idea that statehood for a country does not recognize the statehood for the other in peace talks would actualy help the process is ludicrousness.
Whitedog is a well known anti-semite, living in a bubble where if his morning cereal tastes bad, he starts looking in the cupboards for Jews.
On November 30 2012 21:58 WhiteDog wrote: The sad part is that the overwhelming majority of countries voted for the Palestinians in this matter. In the world, there are basically two nations who think Israel is a respectable country : the US and Israel itself (and some other minor countries who act as the US want them to). It's quite easy to see that even here on TL: people who defend Israel after each bombing event are either Israelis or americans. Israel, one of the most hated state in the world, still thinking everything it does is good and that this hate is just "antisemitism" because you know the US, the major superpower of our time, is backing them every time.
It's also interesting to see how every Israelis posters always bend reality and can't free themselves from their patriotism. At some point you just can't back up your country when it's doing some wild shit for fifty years. At least America came to question itself after the Viet Nam failure or the Iraq failure. From my point of view it's true patriotism to rise and question yourself. Sionist should start reading some work made by jews who suffered the 2nd ww such as Viktor Klemperer, those were great men.
See this is where I gotta say something. You have to take a step back and look at how horribly biased this has to be. The most hated country on earth? say what you want about Isreal at the end of the day its still a democracy and its only killed how many of the civilians of another country? meanwhile genocides happen every day in africa and europians like you think that somehow isreal is more evil then them. Its not like Isreal is actually blocking the PLO from becoming a state. They just think that if you want to be recognized as a state In the UN you should probably oh I don't know recognize the very real state thats next to you that you've tried to "throw into the sea" more then once. the PLO has been the party that time after time denies that they want peace and simply wants to murder all the jews in isreal. Isreal has time and time again offered land and wildly better terms then anyone else has given them and yet gets spat at.
It boggles my mind how Europe would rather support terrorists then an functioning democracy in a first world country. America learned in bosnia that The Europe won't do anything to stop genocides in their own backyards and you expect america to trust that it won't happen again?
How can Isreal be the most hated state in the world to you I have no idea. What do you think will actualy cause peace to happen? The idea that statehood for a country does not recognize the statehood for the other in peace talks would actualy help the process is ludicrousness.
Israel is not a democracy, it makes a legal difference between Jew Israeli and Arab Israeli, which goes against the basic principle of a democracy. It also killed a lot of civilians but that's another question.
On November 30 2012 21:58 WhiteDog wrote: The sad part is that the overwhelming majority of countries voted for the Palestinians in this matter. In the world, there are basically two nations who think Israel is a respectable country : the US and Israel itself (and some other minor countries who act as the US want them to). It's quite easy to see that even here on TL: people who defend Israel after each bombing event are either Israelis or americans. Israel, one of the most hated state in the world, still thinking everything it does is good and that this hate is just "antisemitism" because you know the US, the major superpower of our time, is backing them every time.
It's also interesting to see how every Israelis posters always bend reality and can't free themselves from their patriotism. At some point you just can't back up your country when it's doing some wild shit for fifty years. At least America came to question itself after the Viet Nam failure or the Iraq failure. From my point of view it's true patriotism to rise and question yourself. Sionist should start reading some work made by jews who suffered the 2nd ww such as Viktor Klemperer, those were great men.
See this is where I gotta say something. You have to take a step back and look at how horribly biased this has to be. The most hated country on earth? say what you want about Isreal at the end of the day its still a democracy and its only killed how many of the civilians of another country? meanwhile genocides happen every day in africa and europians like you think that somehow isreal is more evil then them. Its not like Isreal is actually blocking the PLO from becoming a state. They just think that if you want to be recognized as a state In the UN you should probably oh I don't know recognize the very real state thats next to you that you've tried to "throw into the sea" more then once. the PLO has been the party that time after time denies that they want peace and simply wants to murder all the jews in isreal. Isreal has time and time again offered land and wildly better terms then anyone else has given them and yet gets spat at.
It boggles my mind how Europe would rather support terrorists then an functioning democracy in a first world country. America learned in bosnia that The Europe won't do anything to stop genocides in their own backyards and you expect america to trust that it won't happen again?
How can Isreal be the most hated state in the world to you I have no idea. What do you think will actualy cause peace to happen? The idea that statehood for a country does not recognize the statehood for the other in peace talks would actualy help the process is ludicrousness.
Whitedog is a well known anti-semite, living in a bubble where if his morning cereal tastes bad, he starts looking in the cupboards for Jews.
But he calls them zionists, so it's all good.
I will not respond to you, but I reported you. I will not allow someone as uneducated as you to insult me of anti-semitism.
On November 30 2012 21:58 WhiteDog wrote: The sad part is that the overwhelming majority of countries voted for the Palestinians in this matter. In the world, there are basically two nations who think Israel is a respectable country : the US and Israel itself (and some other minor countries who act as the US want them to). It's quite easy to see that even here on TL: people who defend Israel after each bombing event are either Israelis or americans. Israel, one of the most hated state in the world, still thinking everything it does is good and that this hate is just "antisemitism" because you know the US, the major superpower of our time, is backing them every time.
It's also interesting to see how every Israelis posters always bend reality and can't free themselves from their patriotism. At some point you just can't back up your country when it's doing some wild shit for fifty years. At least America came to question itself after the Viet Nam failure or the Iraq failure. From my point of view it's true patriotism to rise and question yourself. Sionist should start reading some work made by jews who suffered the 2nd ww such as Viktor Klemperer, those were great men.
See this is where I gotta say something. You have to take a step back and look at how horribly biased this has to be. The most hated country on earth? say what you want about Isreal at the end of the day its still a democracy and its only killed how many of the civilians of another country? meanwhile genocides happen every day in africa and europians like you think that somehow isreal is more evil then them. Its not like Isreal is actually blocking the PLO from becoming a state. They just think that if you want to be recognized as a state In the UN you should probably oh I don't know recognize the very real state thats next to you that you've tried to "throw into the sea" more then once. the PLO has been the party that time after time denies that they want peace and simply wants to murder all the jews in isreal. Isreal has time and time again offered land and wildly better terms then anyone else has given them and yet gets spat at.
It boggles my mind how Europe would rather support terrorists then an functioning democracy in a first world country. America learned in bosnia that The Europe won't do anything to stop genocides in their own backyards and you expect america to trust that it won't happen again?
How can Isreal be the most hated state in the world to you I have no idea. What do you think will actualy cause peace to happen? The idea that statehood for a country does not recognize the statehood for the other in peace talks would actualy help the process is ludicrousness.
Israel is, in all pools, judged as one of the most negativ countro for international peace along with Iran and North Korea. It's not according to me, it's according to international pools all around the world. When your country is judged as as dangerous as North Korea and Iran, then SOMETHING might be wrong.
Israel is not a democracy, it makes a legal difference between Jew Israeli and Arab Israeli, which goes against the basic principle of a democracy. It also killed a lot of civilians but that's another question.
Something like being surrounded by people who want "no peace, no regognization and no negotiation" people who want to "throw them into the sea" and by people who the world would rather support whos slogan is "we love death more then they love life". Don't be stupid. They make a legal difference because they don't draft the arabs in their country for military service. That's a bad thing now? The Israel arabs have their own political party and get to vote in the election the same as any jew. That makes them an actual democracy. Its killed the civilians that want to kill them that's not just random off chance we're going to kill them that's called war. The day that Palestine decides they want to end the war that they started and have continued in the face of repeated calls for peace is the day that their people will stop dieing and we can all go back to living in a safer world.
I'm not even going to touch an article that shows Europe would rather support china then isreal. Theres antisemitism and then there's completely going off the reservation.
On November 30 2012 21:58 WhiteDog wrote: The sad part is that the overwhelming majority of countries voted for the Palestinians in this matter. In the world, there are basically two nations who think Israel is a respectable country : the US and Israel itself (and some other minor countries who act as the US want them to). It's quite easy to see that even here on TL: people who defend Israel after each bombing event are either Israelis or americans. Israel, one of the most hated state in the world, still thinking everything it does is good and that this hate is just "antisemitism" because you know the US, the major superpower of our time, is backing them every time.
It's also interesting to see how every Israelis posters always bend reality and can't free themselves from their patriotism. At some point you just can't back up your country when it's doing some wild shit for fifty years. At least America came to question itself after the Viet Nam failure or the Iraq failure. From my point of view it's true patriotism to rise and question yourself. Sionist should start reading some work made by jews who suffered the 2nd ww such as Viktor Klemperer, those were great men.
See this is where I gotta say something. You have to take a step back and look at how horribly biased this has to be. The most hated country on earth? say what you want about Isreal at the end of the day its still a democracy and its only killed how many of the civilians of another country? meanwhile genocides happen every day in africa and europians like you think that somehow isreal is more evil then them. Its not like Isreal is actually blocking the PLO from becoming a state. They just think that if you want to be recognized as a state In the UN you should probably oh I don't know recognize the very real state thats next to you that you've tried to "throw into the sea" more then once. the PLO has been the party that time after time denies that they want peace and simply wants to murder all the jews in isreal. Isreal has time and time again offered land and wildly better terms then anyone else has given them and yet gets spat at.
It boggles my mind how Europe would rather support terrorists then an functioning democracy in a first world country. America learned in bosnia that The Europe won't do anything to stop genocides in their own backyards and you expect america to trust that it won't happen again?
How can Isreal be the most hated state in the world to you I have no idea. What do you think will actualy cause peace to happen? The idea that statehood for a country does not recognize the statehood for the other in peace talks would actualy help the process is ludicrousness.
Israel is, in all pools, judged as one of the most negativ countro for international peace along with Iran and North Korea. It's not according to me, it's according to international pools all around the world. When your country is judged as as dangerous as North Korea and Iran, then SOMETHING might be wrong.
Israel is not a democracy, it makes a legal difference between Jew Israeli and Arab Israeli, which goes against the basic principle of a democracy. It also killed a lot of civilians but that's another question.
Something like being surrounded by people who want "no peace, no regognization and no negotiation" people who want to "throw them into the sea" and by people who the world would rather support whos slogan is "we love death more then they love life". Don't be stupid. They make a legal difference because they don't draft the arabs in their country for military service. Thats a bad thing now? The Israel arabs have their own political party and get to vote in the election the same as any jew. That makes them an actual democracy. Its killed the civilians that want to kill them thats not just random off canse we're going to kill them thats called war. The day that Palestine decides they want to end the war that they started and have continued in the face of repeated calls for peace is the day that their people will stop dieing and we can all go back to liveing in a safer world.
I suggest you watch this video linked by sekritzz four pages ago :
On November 02 2011 00:44 konadora wrote: uh, what kind of stupid law is that that forces a government to cut financial ties to a global organisation because of one country? on what basis?
It would be from their relation with Israel almost certainly.
sorry i'm not really into politics, but what was the relation between the US, israel and palestine? genuinely curious.
Israel has quite the lobby power in the US. As a result, the US administration is generally pro-Israel. The US stood behind Israel pretty much from its inception. There's a reason why the neighboring Arab states have been unable to destroy Israel.
Well, war history tells us that the Arab states haven't been able to destroy Israel for vastly different reasons than just their burly friend the USA. The only country they'd need our help with militarily is Iran.
More interestingly, what would be to gain by granting Palestine recognition as a state? Would it cause the Arab states around Israel to acknowledge Israel's sovereignty?
If so, I'd totally support it. I'm sick of the bloodshed in the region.
If this advances the rule of law, it will be a good thing.
The abstentions really piss me off. Every time a difficult, important decision has to be made, the powerful decide to abstain. Abstain, abstain, not my problem, abstain. It reminds me of a school playground. Sometimes decisions have to be made quickly and yes, it can all backfire. DEAL WITH IT!
What I don't think people are realizing right now is that as soon as palestine becomes a state, they are then subject to all the rules that apply to states. all the love from the media they used to have is going to be turned around because of war crimes. Everything they try to pin on Israel will be pinned on them for doing much, much worse. They have already racked up a history of war crimes against their own people. I have a feeling that as soon as this happens, things will get worse, not better.
probably the dumbest decision a dumb organization has ever made. of course, this shouldn't surprise anyone as the UN is basically an anti-Israel clubhouse with only the modicum of legitimacy that America being a member grants it. too bad Obama's President or maybe we could threaten to pull all funding and finally kick them out of our country for this atrocity. as it is, I hope every country that voted for this stupidity looks at the war and mass-death this will inevitably help cause in four or five years and realize their mistake before they go and repeat it next time.
On November 30 2012 23:50 docvoc wrote: What I don't think people are realizing right now is that as soon as palestine becomes a state, they are then subject to all the rules that apply to states. all the love from the media they used to have is going to be turned around because of war crimes. Everything they try to pin on Israel will be pinned on them for doing much, much worse. They have already racked up a history of war crimes against their own people. I have a feeling that as soon as this happens, things will get worse, not better.
Pretty ironic that an American talks about war crimes commited by a country.
I'm still wondering why you still believe this nonsense, but I forgive you.. the jewish media has its control over the American population.
On November 30 2012 23:50 docvoc wrote: What I don't think people are realizing right now is that as soon as palestine becomes a state, they are then subject to all the rules that apply to states. all the love from the media they used to have is going to be turned around because of war crimes. Everything they try to pin on Israel will be pinned on them for doing much, much worse. They have already racked up a history of war crimes against their own people. I have a feeling that as soon as this happens, things will get worse, not better.
Pretty ironic that an American talks about war crimes commited by a country.
I'm still wondering why you still believe this nonsense, but I forgive you.. the jewish media has its control over the American population.
you know, it's pretty rude to accuse everyone who disagrees with you of being brainwashed by "jewish media". not only is that rude, but it's also has hints of antisemitism and even further, you started it all with an ad hominem.
EPT![[image loading]](http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_pEfVJ93Cwa8/TDjQIyH5mGI/AAAAAAAAGmk/EA9TbmokMRE/s1600/israel-palestine-map.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/60/Germanborders.svg)
