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Stay on topic. I cannot put it more clearly then that. Derailments will be met with consequences. ~Nyovne |
On November 02 2011 23:10 BestZergOnEast wrote:
The Palestinian people don't need a state, they need Israeli tanks to stop bull dozing their villages. Let's face the facts, Israel is a regional super power. They have the backing of America, gross military superiority and nuclear weapons. Palestine is the worlds largest open air prison. Israel is a terrorist state. Now I don't idolize the Palestinian people either. The truth is usually in conflicts both sides are evil and there's really no way we, as outside observers, can lend much insight into the situation. I think the best thing that the world community can do is stop sending both sides of this conflict money, stop supporting any of them, and leave them to work out their problems on their own.
But if they stopped fighting, who would America sell weapons to?
That aside, I always though that Israel had the right to overreact to things, since every single one of its neighbors has wanted to eliminate it as a nation and race since day one. But some things they have done to Palestinian civilians seem excessive and unnecessary for their self-defense... and that's just terrible.
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On November 03 2011 01:50 Durp wrote:I find it really interesting in this thread to see how many people blindly believe Europe (and by extension Europeans) have this blind acceptance and tolerance for the Jews/Israel after World War Two. Don't know who is aware of what the March of the Living is, but while on it marching through Poland I was literally spat on by Polish people. One of whom (and one of the few who did so that spoke enough English to try to continue to antagonize me) outright blamed me (a jew) for what "happened to Poland." I have also experienced some pretty horrible anti-semitism in other European countries while backpacking through Europe, (France especially, England, and also Denmark stand out). I live in Canada, and it happens here too. I think it's important that we shed this naivety that antisemitism is a pocketed, isolated problem. note: For the record, racism exists everywhere. Nobody (short of the white christian male, aged 21-45) is devoid from facing it in their lives. I don't think this allows for a carte blance for Jewish people or Israelis to do as they please. Everyone has a shit time in life, and lots of people are targets for others' anger.
I think it's exceptionally important to try to view this situation without any preconceived bias (which I accept is difficult). This is an issue that has been central to me for my entire life, being that I myself am Jewish yet am also vehemently against the zionist movement. I believe, in spite of my Jewish background, that it is exceptionally important for there to be a Palestinian state.
For the entirety of Israel's history, it has been an enormous struggle for them to try to gain acceptance from their neighbours. Even today, there is an easiness about the peace that Israel does share with - only some- of their neighbours. Israel has often been taken for granted in these situations during their attempts for peace. They defended their own borders in 1967 from six other countries at once, and in the process of defending their land, were able to counter beyond their contain and into enemy territory (vagued SC2 reference, I figured if it's not appropriate here?). Since 1967 Israel has progressively given back that land, inspite of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it was theirs fair and square. Historically they have made other concessions for peace, and they have been taken for granted.
I believe that Israel needs to be the ones helping to form the Palestinian state. They should take the extra step and show they are willing to do what is necessary for peace, even if it's beyond what is in their best interest. Be the first party to take that risk.
...However. If that trust is abused, (for example the Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever. If the Palestinian people truly want peace, then they too have a fucking responsibility to police themselves and do whatever they can to stop the violence against Israel. It has proven it can get their "innocents" killed, and it is about time they put some of their own effort into fixing this situation. This same principle applies to the idiot Israeli zionists that insist on populating Gaza and the West Bank. I don't care about their feelings of entitlement, it's time to mature and grow up, and learn to make some sacrifices. You've get the rest of the "Holy Land" to choose from, your indignation gets people killed, it's time to pack up your shit and move out.
The history of Israel's attempts for peace can be summed up in the phrase: if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk
a lot of it comes from ignorance of the difference between a jewish person and a zionist, me for instance i hate israel anything to do with it and anybody who supports it, but if you are simply jewish then you have no ire from me people are free to believe whatever they please......so when your in say poland which is economically horrible place and has a very large lower class you will find people who dont make the distinction between the two
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On November 03 2011 02:07 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 01:50 Durp wrote:I find it really interesting in this thread to see how many people blindly believe Europe (and by extension Europeans) have this blind acceptance and tolerance for the Jews/Israel after World War Two. Don't know who is aware of what the March of the Living is, but while on it marching through Poland I was literally spat on by Polish people. One of whom (and one of the few who did so that spoke enough English to try to continue to antagonize me) outright blamed me (a jew) for what "happened to Poland." I have also experienced some pretty horrible anti-semitism in other European countries while backpacking through Europe, (France especially, England, and also Denmark stand out). I live in Canada, and it happens here too. I think it's important that we shed this naivety that antisemitism is a pocketed, isolated problem. note: For the record, racism exists everywhere. Nobody (short of the white christian male, aged 21-45) is devoid from facing it in their lives. I don't think this allows for a carte blance for Jewish people or Israelis to do as they please. Everyone has a shit time in life, and lots of people are targets for others' anger.
I think it's exceptionally important to try to view this situation without any preconceived bias (which I accept is difficult). This is an issue that has been central to me for my entire life, being that I myself am Jewish yet am also vehemently against the zionist movement. I believe, in spite of my Jewish background, that it is exceptionally important for there to be a Palestinian state.
For the entirety of Israel's history, it has been an enormous struggle for them to try to gain acceptance from their neighbours. Even today, there is an easiness about the peace that Israel does share with - only some- of their neighbours. Israel has often been taken for granted in these situations during their attempts for peace. They defended their own borders in 1967 from six other countries at once, and in the process of defending their land, were able to counter beyond their contain and into enemy territory (vagued SC2 reference, I figured if it's not appropriate here?). Since 1967 Israel has progressively given back that land, inspite of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it was theirs fair and square. Historically they have made other concessions for peace, and they have been taken for granted.
I believe that Israel needs to be the ones helping to form the Palestinian state. They should take the extra step and show they are willing to do what is necessary for peace, even if it's beyond what is in their best interest. Be the first party to take that risk.
...However. If that trust is abused, (for example the Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever. If the Palestinian people truly want peace, then they too have a fucking responsibility to police themselves and do whatever they can to stop the violence against Israel. It has proven it can get their "innocents" killed, and it is about time they put some of their own effort into fixing this situation. This same principle applies to the idiot Israeli zionists that insist on populating Gaza and the West Bank. I don't care about their feelings of entitlement, it's time to mature and grow up, and learn to make some sacrifices. You've get the rest of the "Holy Land" to choose from, your indignation gets people killed, it's time to pack up your shit and move out.
The history of Israel's attempts for peace can be summed up in the phrase: if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk Ah, so everyone is wrong, and the Israelis are innocent lambs, including how the country was founded. I learn a new thing every day. Btw, Israel was the aggressor in '67 with a surprise invasion of Egypt and Syria. Were you talking to people and saying these things and you got spit on? I don't see why people would randomly spit on you because you're Jewish, ESPECIALLY in a country like Poland. The only spitting I've heard of is Israeli Jews spitting on Christians vacationing there, and that's reasonable considering some of those spitting guys are religious fanatics and don't like non-Jews in the country.
There was absolutely no provocation to being spat on. I was literally walking through the streets, the rest of the group was singing a hebrew song that I didn't know. From group leaders I spoke to after the event, this happens nearly every time.
I don't believe Israelis are innocent lambs, and there are Jewish religious fanatics, who very well may spit on non-Jews. I do know, however, that those people are almost uniformly confined to the old-city in Jerusalem, which they consider to be beyond holy (even non-religious enough Jews take abuse from the orthodox Jews there- which is ridiculous imo)
Also the 1967 war was not begun by an "invasion," rather a surprise airstrike, that targeted solely military targets. Most specifically the Egyptian airforce, which was crippled immediately and had been an intended backbone for the arab combined military in this instance.
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On November 03 2011 02:14 HellRoxYa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 02:07 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On November 03 2011 01:50 Durp wrote:I find it really interesting in this thread to see how many people blindly believe Europe (and by extension Europeans) have this blind acceptance and tolerance for the Jews/Israel after World War Two. Don't know who is aware of what the March of the Living is, but while on it marching through Poland I was literally spat on by Polish people. One of whom (and one of the few who did so that spoke enough English to try to continue to antagonize me) outright blamed me (a jew) for what "happened to Poland." I have also experienced some pretty horrible anti-semitism in other European countries while backpacking through Europe, (France especially, England, and also Denmark stand out). I live in Canada, and it happens here too. I think it's important that we shed this naivety that antisemitism is a pocketed, isolated problem. note: For the record, racism exists everywhere. Nobody (short of the white christian male, aged 21-45) is devoid from facing it in their lives. I don't think this allows for a carte blance for Jewish people or Israelis to do as they please. Everyone has a shit time in life, and lots of people are targets for others' anger.
I think it's exceptionally important to try to view this situation without any preconceived bias (which I accept is difficult). This is an issue that has been central to me for my entire life, being that I myself am Jewish yet am also vehemently against the zionist movement. I believe, in spite of my Jewish background, that it is exceptionally important for there to be a Palestinian state.
For the entirety of Israel's history, it has been an enormous struggle for them to try to gain acceptance from their neighbours. Even today, there is an easiness about the peace that Israel does share with - only some- of their neighbours. Israel has often been taken for granted in these situations during their attempts for peace. They defended their own borders in 1967 from six other countries at once, and in the process of defending their land, were able to counter beyond their contain and into enemy territory (vagued SC2 reference, I figured if it's not appropriate here?). Since 1967 Israel has progressively given back that land, inspite of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it was theirs fair and square. Historically they have made other concessions for peace, and they have been taken for granted.
I believe that Israel needs to be the ones helping to form the Palestinian state. They should take the extra step and show they are willing to do what is necessary for peace, even if it's beyond what is in their best interest. Be the first party to take that risk.
...However. If that trust is abused, (for example the Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever. If the Palestinian people truly want peace, then they too have a fucking responsibility to police themselves and do whatever they can to stop the violence against Israel. It has proven it can get their "innocents" killed, and it is about time they put some of their own effort into fixing this situation. This same principle applies to the idiot Israeli zionists that insist on populating Gaza and the West Bank. I don't care about their feelings of entitlement, it's time to mature and grow up, and learn to make some sacrifices. You've get the rest of the "Holy Land" to choose from, your indignation gets people killed, it's time to pack up your shit and move out.
The history of Israel's attempts for peace can be summed up in the phrase: if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk Ah, so everyone is wrong, and the Israelis are innocent lambs, including how the country was founded. I learn a new thing every day. Btw, Israel was the aggressor in '67 with a surprise invasion of Egypt and Syria. I'd argue otherwise. There were aggressive actions (although not direct action ones) on the opposing sides. They could have defused the situation but they didn't. And you know why? Because they wanted war.
Conspiracy theories aside, so you're saying because Germany had some of its land taken following WW1 and because it was heavily oppressed and economically depressed by the treaty terms enforced by the British and French, that Germany was fully justified in taking Poland, to which land was given following WW1, a war neither started by the Germans, but they were by far punished the most for it because they were the most powerful belligerent on the losing side (or the government collapse side lol). You're going to have to justify that as well.
The fact of the matter is the Israelis were the aggressor. I don't see why you deny this. They made a surprise attack against unsuspecting states.
lol the Iranians were making assassination attempts on Iraqi politicians, mobilizing the military for war, were declaring that Iraq will be conquered and its government overthrown, being directly tied to and openly supporting terrorism terrorist bombings by Shi'a fanatics in support of the Islamic republic, exporting the Islamic revolution their jihad into the rest of the Mideast, calling for supporters of Khomeini to rise in jihad against secular Iraqis, damned Iraqi society for not being religious fundamentalists and called them anti-Muslim, moved soldiers across the border as provocative measures, etc. etc., and when the Iraqis declare war (this is assuming religious declaration of war from Iran's side and the many acts of war committed against Iraq don't count as declaring war), and before they are attacked, people say they were completed unjustified, despite being a lot more justified than the Israeli aggression in '67 lol.
Durp wrote:
Also the 1967 war was not begun by an "invasion," rather a surprise airstrike, that targeted solely military targets. Most specifically the Egyptian airforce, which was crippled immediately and had been an intended backbone for the arab combined military in this instance.
Okay, if you want to be a smart alec, let's put it this way: the Israelis started a war against a couple of its neighbors for no reason and under no provocation but to destroy some of the military potential of a couple of its neighbors. In other words, the Israelis were the aggressors, and were a lot less justified than a lot of other aggressors in wars in modern history.
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On November 03 2011 02:22 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 02:14 HellRoxYa wrote:On November 03 2011 02:07 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On November 03 2011 01:50 Durp wrote:I find it really interesting in this thread to see how many people blindly believe Europe (and by extension Europeans) have this blind acceptance and tolerance for the Jews/Israel after World War Two. Don't know who is aware of what the March of the Living is, but while on it marching through Poland I was literally spat on by Polish people. One of whom (and one of the few who did so that spoke enough English to try to continue to antagonize me) outright blamed me (a jew) for what "happened to Poland." I have also experienced some pretty horrible anti-semitism in other European countries while backpacking through Europe, (France especially, England, and also Denmark stand out). I live in Canada, and it happens here too. I think it's important that we shed this naivety that antisemitism is a pocketed, isolated problem. note: For the record, racism exists everywhere. Nobody (short of the white christian male, aged 21-45) is devoid from facing it in their lives. I don't think this allows for a carte blance for Jewish people or Israelis to do as they please. Everyone has a shit time in life, and lots of people are targets for others' anger.
I think it's exceptionally important to try to view this situation without any preconceived bias (which I accept is difficult). This is an issue that has been central to me for my entire life, being that I myself am Jewish yet am also vehemently against the zionist movement. I believe, in spite of my Jewish background, that it is exceptionally important for there to be a Palestinian state.
For the entirety of Israel's history, it has been an enormous struggle for them to try to gain acceptance from their neighbours. Even today, there is an easiness about the peace that Israel does share with - only some- of their neighbours. Israel has often been taken for granted in these situations during their attempts for peace. They defended their own borders in 1967 from six other countries at once, and in the process of defending their land, were able to counter beyond their contain and into enemy territory (vagued SC2 reference, I figured if it's not appropriate here?). Since 1967 Israel has progressively given back that land, inspite of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it was theirs fair and square. Historically they have made other concessions for peace, and they have been taken for granted.
I believe that Israel needs to be the ones helping to form the Palestinian state. They should take the extra step and show they are willing to do what is necessary for peace, even if it's beyond what is in their best interest. Be the first party to take that risk.
...However. If that trust is abused, (for example the Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever. If the Palestinian people truly want peace, then they too have a fucking responsibility to police themselves and do whatever they can to stop the violence against Israel. It has proven it can get their "innocents" killed, and it is about time they put some of their own effort into fixing this situation. This same principle applies to the idiot Israeli zionists that insist on populating Gaza and the West Bank. I don't care about their feelings of entitlement, it's time to mature and grow up, and learn to make some sacrifices. You've get the rest of the "Holy Land" to choose from, your indignation gets people killed, it's time to pack up your shit and move out.
The history of Israel's attempts for peace can be summed up in the phrase: if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk Ah, so everyone is wrong, and the Israelis are innocent lambs, including how the country was founded. I learn a new thing every day. Btw, Israel was the aggressor in '67 with a surprise invasion of Egypt and Syria. I'd argue otherwise. There were aggressive actions (although not direct action ones) on the opposing sides. They could have defused the situation but they didn't. And you know why? Because they wanted war. Conspiracy theories aside, so you're saying because Germany had some of its land taken following WW1 and because it was heavily oppressed and economically depressed by the treaty terms enforced by the British and French, that Germany was fully justified in taking Poland, to which land was given following WW1, a war neither started by the Germans, but they were by far punished the most for it because they were the most powerful belligerent on the losing side (or the government collapse side lol). You're going to have to justify that as well.
The fact of the matter is the Israelis were the aggressor. I don't see why you deny this. They made a surprise attack against unsuspecting states..
Quoted excerpt from the wiki page on the issue, in no way were these unsuspecting states: edit: i've bolded some important things for you.
In May 1967, Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border.[20] Nasser began massing his troops in the Sinai Peninsula on Israel's border (May 16), expelled the UNEF force from Gaza and Sinai (May 19), and took up UNEF positions at Sharm el-Sheikh, overlooking the Straits of Tiran.[21][22] UN Secretary-General U Thant proposed that the UNEF force be redeployed on the Israeli side of the border, but this was rejected by Israel despite U.S. pressure.[23] Israel reiterated declarations made in 1957 that any closure of the Straits would be considered an act of war, or a justification for war.[24][25] Nasser declared the Straits closed to Israeli shipping on May. 22–23 On May 30, Jordan and Egypt signed a defense pact. The following day, at Jordan's invitation, the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armored units in Jordan.[26] They were later reinforced by an Egyptian contingent. On June 1, Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening its cabinet, and on June 4 the decision was made to go to war. The next morning, Israel launched Operation Focus, a large-scale surprise air strike that was the opening of the Six-Day War.
On November 03 2011 02:22 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:
Okay, if you want to be a smart alec, let's put it this way: the Israelis started a war against a couple of its neighbors for no reason and under no provocation but to destroy some of the military potential of a couple of its neighbors. In other words, the Israelis were the aggressors, and were a lot less justified than a lot of other aggressors in wars in modern history.
Maybe you should go research a bit on the Suez Canal and on this war in general.
You are obviously uninformed on the situation. This is not meant to be callous, you just don't know what you're talking about.
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On November 03 2011 02:07 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 01:50 Durp wrote:I find it really interesting in this thread to see how many people blindly believe Europe (and by extension Europeans) have this blind acceptance and tolerance for the Jews/Israel after World War Two. Don't know who is aware of what the March of the Living is, but while on it marching through Poland I was literally spat on by Polish people. One of whom (and one of the few who did so that spoke enough English to try to continue to antagonize me) outright blamed me (a jew) for what "happened to Poland." I have also experienced some pretty horrible anti-semitism in other European countries while backpacking through Europe, (France especially, England, and also Denmark stand out). I live in Canada, and it happens here too. I think it's important that we shed this naivety that antisemitism is a pocketed, isolated problem. note: For the record, racism exists everywhere. Nobody (short of the white christian male, aged 21-45) is devoid from facing it in their lives. I don't think this allows for a carte blance for Jewish people or Israelis to do as they please. Everyone has a shit time in life, and lots of people are targets for others' anger.
I think it's exceptionally important to try to view this situation without any preconceived bias (which I accept is difficult). This is an issue that has been central to me for my entire life, being that I myself am Jewish yet am also vehemently against the zionist movement. I believe, in spite of my Jewish background, that it is exceptionally important for there to be a Palestinian state.
For the entirety of Israel's history, it has been an enormous struggle for them to try to gain acceptance from their neighbours. Even today, there is an easiness about the peace that Israel does share with - only some- of their neighbours. Israel has often been taken for granted in these situations during their attempts for peace. They defended their own borders in 1967 from six other countries at once, and in the process of defending their land, were able to counter beyond their contain and into enemy territory (vagued SC2 reference, I figured if it's not appropriate here?). Since 1967 Israel has progressively given back that land, inspite of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it was theirs fair and square. Historically they have made other concessions for peace, and they have been taken for granted.
I believe that Israel needs to be the ones helping to form the Palestinian state. They should take the extra step and show they are willing to do what is necessary for peace, even if it's beyond what is in their best interest. Be the first party to take that risk.
...However. If that trust is abused, (for example the Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever. If the Palestinian people truly want peace, then they too have a fucking responsibility to police themselves and do whatever they can to stop the violence against Israel. It has proven it can get their "innocents" killed, and it is about time they put some of their own effort into fixing this situation. This same principle applies to the idiot Israeli zionists that insist on populating Gaza and the West Bank. I don't care about their feelings of entitlement, it's time to mature and grow up, and learn to make some sacrifices. You've get the rest of the "Holy Land" to choose from, your indignation gets people killed, it's time to pack up your shit and move out.
The history of Israel's attempts for peace can be summed up in the phrase: if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk Ah, so everyone is wrong, and the Israelis are innocent lambs, including how the country was founded. I learn a new thing every day. Btw, Israel was the aggressor in '67 with a surprise invasion of Egypt and Syria. Were you talking to people and saying these things and you got spit on? I don't see why people would randomly spit on you because you're Jewish, ESPECIALLY in a country like Poland. The only spitting I've heard of is Israeli Jews spitting on Christians vacationing there, and that's reasonable considering some of those spitting guys are religious fanatics and don't like non-Jews in the country.
well i know you for ignorant after this post, you know that poland percentage wise has one of the highest neo-nazi populations in europe?
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On November 03 2011 02:24 Durp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 02:22 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On November 03 2011 02:14 HellRoxYa wrote:On November 03 2011 02:07 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On November 03 2011 01:50 Durp wrote:I find it really interesting in this thread to see how many people blindly believe Europe (and by extension Europeans) have this blind acceptance and tolerance for the Jews/Israel after World War Two. Don't know who is aware of what the March of the Living is, but while on it marching through Poland I was literally spat on by Polish people. One of whom (and one of the few who did so that spoke enough English to try to continue to antagonize me) outright blamed me (a jew) for what "happened to Poland." I have also experienced some pretty horrible anti-semitism in other European countries while backpacking through Europe, (France especially, England, and also Denmark stand out). I live in Canada, and it happens here too. I think it's important that we shed this naivety that antisemitism is a pocketed, isolated problem. note: For the record, racism exists everywhere. Nobody (short of the white christian male, aged 21-45) is devoid from facing it in their lives. I don't think this allows for a carte blance for Jewish people or Israelis to do as they please. Everyone has a shit time in life, and lots of people are targets for others' anger.
I think it's exceptionally important to try to view this situation without any preconceived bias (which I accept is difficult). This is an issue that has been central to me for my entire life, being that I myself am Jewish yet am also vehemently against the zionist movement. I believe, in spite of my Jewish background, that it is exceptionally important for there to be a Palestinian state.
For the entirety of Israel's history, it has been an enormous struggle for them to try to gain acceptance from their neighbours. Even today, there is an easiness about the peace that Israel does share with - only some- of their neighbours. Israel has often been taken for granted in these situations during their attempts for peace. They defended their own borders in 1967 from six other countries at once, and in the process of defending their land, were able to counter beyond their contain and into enemy territory (vagued SC2 reference, I figured if it's not appropriate here?). Since 1967 Israel has progressively given back that land, inspite of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it was theirs fair and square. Historically they have made other concessions for peace, and they have been taken for granted.
I believe that Israel needs to be the ones helping to form the Palestinian state. They should take the extra step and show they are willing to do what is necessary for peace, even if it's beyond what is in their best interest. Be the first party to take that risk.
...However. If that trust is abused, (for example the Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever. If the Palestinian people truly want peace, then they too have a fucking responsibility to police themselves and do whatever they can to stop the violence against Israel. It has proven it can get their "innocents" killed, and it is about time they put some of their own effort into fixing this situation. This same principle applies to the idiot Israeli zionists that insist on populating Gaza and the West Bank. I don't care about their feelings of entitlement, it's time to mature and grow up, and learn to make some sacrifices. You've get the rest of the "Holy Land" to choose from, your indignation gets people killed, it's time to pack up your shit and move out.
The history of Israel's attempts for peace can be summed up in the phrase: if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk Ah, so everyone is wrong, and the Israelis are innocent lambs, including how the country was founded. I learn a new thing every day. Btw, Israel was the aggressor in '67 with a surprise invasion of Egypt and Syria. I'd argue otherwise. There were aggressive actions (although not direct action ones) on the opposing sides. They could have defused the situation but they didn't. And you know why? Because they wanted war. Conspiracy theories aside, so you're saying because Germany had some of its land taken following WW1 and because it was heavily oppressed and economically depressed by the treaty terms enforced by the British and French, that Germany was fully justified in taking Poland, to which land was given following WW1, a war neither started by the Germans, but they were by far punished the most for it because they were the most powerful belligerent on the losing side (or the government collapse side lol). You're going to have to justify that as well.
The fact of the matter is the Israelis were the aggressor. I don't see why you deny this. They made a surprise attack against unsuspecting states.. Quoted excerpt from the wiki page on the issue, in no way were these unsuspecting states: In May 1967, Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border.[20] Nasser began massing his troops in the Sinai Peninsula on Israel's border (May 16), expelled the UNEF force from Gaza and Sinai (May 19), and took up UNEF positions at Sharm el-Sheikh, overlooking the Straits of Tiran.[21][22] UN Secretary-General U Thant proposed that the UNEF force be redeployed on the Israeli side of the border, but this was rejected by Israel despite U.S. pressure.[23] Israel reiterated declarations made in 1957 that any closure of the Straits would be considered an act of war, or a justification for war.[24][25] Nasser declared the Straits closed to Israeli shipping on May. 22–23 On May 30, Jordan and Egypt signed a defense pact. The following day, at Jordan's invitation, the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armored units in Jordan.[26] They were later reinforced by an Egyptian contingent. On June 1, Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening its cabinet, and on June 4 the decision was made to go to war. The next morning, Israel launched Operation Focus, a large-scale surprise air strike that was the opening of the Six-Day War.
So... Nasser closed the straits, and the Israelis got pissed and decided to start bombing unsuspecting nations. Jordan seemed to have felt threatened by Israel, which wasn't unfounded seeing as the Israelis were about to start a war and were probably making aggressive statements and movements beforehand, and requested Iraqi forces in case of Israeli assault. In any case, you're still proving my point that the Israelis were the aggressors. Why are you in such fervent denial of this fact?
On November 03 2011 02:25 Sgonzo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 02:07 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On November 03 2011 01:50 Durp wrote:I find it really interesting in this thread to see how many people blindly believe Europe (and by extension Europeans) have this blind acceptance and tolerance for the Jews/Israel after World War Two. Don't know who is aware of what the March of the Living is, but while on it marching through Poland I was literally spat on by Polish people. One of whom (and one of the few who did so that spoke enough English to try to continue to antagonize me) outright blamed me (a jew) for what "happened to Poland." I have also experienced some pretty horrible anti-semitism in other European countries while backpacking through Europe, (France especially, England, and also Denmark stand out). I live in Canada, and it happens here too. I think it's important that we shed this naivety that antisemitism is a pocketed, isolated problem. note: For the record, racism exists everywhere. Nobody (short of the white christian male, aged 21-45) is devoid from facing it in their lives. I don't think this allows for a carte blance for Jewish people or Israelis to do as they please. Everyone has a shit time in life, and lots of people are targets for others' anger.
I think it's exceptionally important to try to view this situation without any preconceived bias (which I accept is difficult). This is an issue that has been central to me for my entire life, being that I myself am Jewish yet am also vehemently against the zionist movement. I believe, in spite of my Jewish background, that it is exceptionally important for there to be a Palestinian state.
For the entirety of Israel's history, it has been an enormous struggle for them to try to gain acceptance from their neighbours. Even today, there is an easiness about the peace that Israel does share with - only some- of their neighbours. Israel has often been taken for granted in these situations during their attempts for peace. They defended their own borders in 1967 from six other countries at once, and in the process of defending their land, were able to counter beyond their contain and into enemy territory (vagued SC2 reference, I figured if it's not appropriate here?). Since 1967 Israel has progressively given back that land, inspite of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it was theirs fair and square. Historically they have made other concessions for peace, and they have been taken for granted.
I believe that Israel needs to be the ones helping to form the Palestinian state. They should take the extra step and show they are willing to do what is necessary for peace, even if it's beyond what is in their best interest. Be the first party to take that risk.
...However. If that trust is abused, (for example the Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever. If the Palestinian people truly want peace, then they too have a fucking responsibility to police themselves and do whatever they can to stop the violence against Israel. It has proven it can get their "innocents" killed, and it is about time they put some of their own effort into fixing this situation. This same principle applies to the idiot Israeli zionists that insist on populating Gaza and the West Bank. I don't care about their feelings of entitlement, it's time to mature and grow up, and learn to make some sacrifices. You've get the rest of the "Holy Land" to choose from, your indignation gets people killed, it's time to pack up your shit and move out.
The history of Israel's attempts for peace can be summed up in the phrase: if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk Ah, so everyone is wrong, and the Israelis are innocent lambs, including how the country was founded. I learn a new thing every day. Btw, Israel was the aggressor in '67 with a surprise invasion of Egypt and Syria. Were you talking to people and saying these things and you got spit on? I don't see why people would randomly spit on you because you're Jewish, ESPECIALLY in a country like Poland. The only spitting I've heard of is Israeli Jews spitting on Christians vacationing there, and that's reasonable considering some of those spitting guys are religious fanatics and don't like non-Jews in the country. well i know you for ignorant after this post, you know that poland percentage wise has one of the highest neo-nazi populations in europe?
Do you have anything to back up this claim since apparently it's so well-known? Even some Polish people have told me the direct opposite, so unless there's some statistic or study (which I'm sure will be easy for you to find since this is such common knowledge) that Poland is neo-nazis dreamland, then best not call people ignorant, nevermind for not knowing a very obscure thing.
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On November 03 2011 02:25 Sgonzo wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 02:07 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On November 03 2011 01:50 Durp wrote:I find it really interesting in this thread to see how many people blindly believe Europe (and by extension Europeans) have this blind acceptance and tolerance for the Jews/Israel after World War Two. Don't know who is aware of what the March of the Living is, but while on it marching through Poland I was literally spat on by Polish people. One of whom (and one of the few who did so that spoke enough English to try to continue to antagonize me) outright blamed me (a jew) for what "happened to Poland." I have also experienced some pretty horrible anti-semitism in other European countries while backpacking through Europe, (France especially, England, and also Denmark stand out). I live in Canada, and it happens here too. I think it's important that we shed this naivety that antisemitism is a pocketed, isolated problem. note: For the record, racism exists everywhere. Nobody (short of the white christian male, aged 21-45) is devoid from facing it in their lives. I don't think this allows for a carte blance for Jewish people or Israelis to do as they please. Everyone has a shit time in life, and lots of people are targets for others' anger.
I think it's exceptionally important to try to view this situation without any preconceived bias (which I accept is difficult). This is an issue that has been central to me for my entire life, being that I myself am Jewish yet am also vehemently against the zionist movement. I believe, in spite of my Jewish background, that it is exceptionally important for there to be a Palestinian state.
For the entirety of Israel's history, it has been an enormous struggle for them to try to gain acceptance from their neighbours. Even today, there is an easiness about the peace that Israel does share with - only some- of their neighbours. Israel has often been taken for granted in these situations during their attempts for peace. They defended their own borders in 1967 from six other countries at once, and in the process of defending their land, were able to counter beyond their contain and into enemy territory (vagued SC2 reference, I figured if it's not appropriate here?). Since 1967 Israel has progressively given back that land, inspite of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it was theirs fair and square. Historically they have made other concessions for peace, and they have been taken for granted.
I believe that Israel needs to be the ones helping to form the Palestinian state. They should take the extra step and show they are willing to do what is necessary for peace, even if it's beyond what is in their best interest. Be the first party to take that risk.
...However. If that trust is abused, (for example the Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever. If the Palestinian people truly want peace, then they too have a fucking responsibility to police themselves and do whatever they can to stop the violence against Israel. It has proven it can get their "innocents" killed, and it is about time they put some of their own effort into fixing this situation. This same principle applies to the idiot Israeli zionists that insist on populating Gaza and the West Bank. I don't care about their feelings of entitlement, it's time to mature and grow up, and learn to make some sacrifices. You've get the rest of the "Holy Land" to choose from, your indignation gets people killed, it's time to pack up your shit and move out.
The history of Israel's attempts for peace can be summed up in the phrase: if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk Ah, so everyone is wrong, and the Israelis are innocent lambs, including how the country was founded. I learn a new thing every day. Btw, Israel was the aggressor in '67 with a surprise invasion of Egypt and Syria. Were you talking to people and saying these things and you got spit on? I don't see why people would randomly spit on you because you're Jewish, ESPECIALLY in a country like Poland. The only spitting I've heard of is Israeli Jews spitting on Christians vacationing there, and that's reasonable considering some of those spitting guys are religious fanatics and don't like non-Jews in the country. well i know you for ignorant after this post, you know that poland percentage wise has one of the highest neo-nazi populations in europe?
I don't think that is justification for the assumption that being Jewish in Poland will cause you to be spat on.
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On November 03 2011 02:29 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 02:24 Durp wrote:On November 03 2011 02:22 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On November 03 2011 02:14 HellRoxYa wrote:On November 03 2011 02:07 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On November 03 2011 01:50 Durp wrote:I find it really interesting in this thread to see how many people blindly believe Europe (and by extension Europeans) have this blind acceptance and tolerance for the Jews/Israel after World War Two. Don't know who is aware of what the March of the Living is, but while on it marching through Poland I was literally spat on by Polish people. One of whom (and one of the few who did so that spoke enough English to try to continue to antagonize me) outright blamed me (a jew) for what "happened to Poland." I have also experienced some pretty horrible anti-semitism in other European countries while backpacking through Europe, (France especially, England, and also Denmark stand out). I live in Canada, and it happens here too. I think it's important that we shed this naivety that antisemitism is a pocketed, isolated problem. note: For the record, racism exists everywhere. Nobody (short of the white christian male, aged 21-45) is devoid from facing it in their lives. I don't think this allows for a carte blance for Jewish people or Israelis to do as they please. Everyone has a shit time in life, and lots of people are targets for others' anger.
I think it's exceptionally important to try to view this situation without any preconceived bias (which I accept is difficult). This is an issue that has been central to me for my entire life, being that I myself am Jewish yet am also vehemently against the zionist movement. I believe, in spite of my Jewish background, that it is exceptionally important for there to be a Palestinian state.
For the entirety of Israel's history, it has been an enormous struggle for them to try to gain acceptance from their neighbours. Even today, there is an easiness about the peace that Israel does share with - only some- of their neighbours. Israel has often been taken for granted in these situations during their attempts for peace. They defended their own borders in 1967 from six other countries at once, and in the process of defending their land, were able to counter beyond their contain and into enemy territory (vagued SC2 reference, I figured if it's not appropriate here?). Since 1967 Israel has progressively given back that land, inspite of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it was theirs fair and square. Historically they have made other concessions for peace, and they have been taken for granted.
I believe that Israel needs to be the ones helping to form the Palestinian state. They should take the extra step and show they are willing to do what is necessary for peace, even if it's beyond what is in their best interest. Be the first party to take that risk.
...However. If that trust is abused, (for example the Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever. If the Palestinian people truly want peace, then they too have a fucking responsibility to police themselves and do whatever they can to stop the violence against Israel. It has proven it can get their "innocents" killed, and it is about time they put some of their own effort into fixing this situation. This same principle applies to the idiot Israeli zionists that insist on populating Gaza and the West Bank. I don't care about their feelings of entitlement, it's time to mature and grow up, and learn to make some sacrifices. You've get the rest of the "Holy Land" to choose from, your indignation gets people killed, it's time to pack up your shit and move out.
The history of Israel's attempts for peace can be summed up in the phrase: if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk Ah, so everyone is wrong, and the Israelis are innocent lambs, including how the country was founded. I learn a new thing every day. Btw, Israel was the aggressor in '67 with a surprise invasion of Egypt and Syria. I'd argue otherwise. There were aggressive actions (although not direct action ones) on the opposing sides. They could have defused the situation but they didn't. And you know why? Because they wanted war. Conspiracy theories aside, so you're saying because Germany had some of its land taken following WW1 and because it was heavily oppressed and economically depressed by the treaty terms enforced by the British and French, that Germany was fully justified in taking Poland, to which land was given following WW1, a war neither started by the Germans, but they were by far punished the most for it because they were the most powerful belligerent on the losing side (or the government collapse side lol). You're going to have to justify that as well.
The fact of the matter is the Israelis were the aggressor. I don't see why you deny this. They made a surprise attack against unsuspecting states.. Quoted excerpt from the wiki page on the issue, in no way were these unsuspecting states: In May 1967, Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border.[20] Nasser began massing his troops in the Sinai Peninsula on Israel's border (May 16), expelled the UNEF force from Gaza and Sinai (May 19), and took up UNEF positions at Sharm el-Sheikh, overlooking the Straits of Tiran.[21][22] UN Secretary-General U Thant proposed that the UNEF force be redeployed on the Israeli side of the border, but this was rejected by Israel despite U.S. pressure.[23] Israel reiterated declarations made in 1957 that any closure of the Straits would be considered an act of war, or a justification for war.[24][25] Nasser declared the Straits closed to Israeli shipping on May. 22–23 On May 30, Jordan and Egypt signed a defense pact. The following day, at Jordan's invitation, the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armored units in Jordan.[26] They were later reinforced by an Egyptian contingent. On June 1, Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening its cabinet, and on June 4 the decision was made to go to war. The next morning, Israel launched Operation Focus, a large-scale surprise air strike that was the opening of the Six-Day War. So... Nasser closed the straits, and the Israelis got pissed and decided to start bombing unsuspecting nations. Jordan seemed to have felt threatened by Israel, which wasn't unfounded seeing as the Israelis were about to start a war and were probably making aggressive statements and movements beforehand, and requested Iraqi forces in case of Israeli assault. In any case, you're still proving my point that the Israelis were the aggressors. Why are you in such fervent denial of this fact?
None of this is proven with any historical evidence.
The 1967 war was due to the conflict over the closing of the Suez Canal. It was made perfectly clear that closing the canal would be considered an act of war, which was established a decade prior globally (look into the '57 Suez Crisis)
The Suez Canal was the focus of this issue, not some Israeli version of a Middle Eastern manifest destiny. I will not explain this further to you, you clearly need to go do some reading and get informed.
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Durp, i will quote something you said:
Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever
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On November 03 2011 02:58 Pika Chu wrote:Durp, i will quote something you said: Show nested quote +Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever
That is what I said, though taken pretty remarkably out of context.
You should edit for Michael Moore.
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well usa told before that they will do this ... so it was totaly expected 
unesco just act in not clever way KNOWING usa will do this ... they kick themselv
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On November 03 2011 02:29 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 02:24 Durp wrote:On November 03 2011 02:22 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On November 03 2011 02:14 HellRoxYa wrote:On November 03 2011 02:07 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On November 03 2011 01:50 Durp wrote:I find it really interesting in this thread to see how many people blindly believe Europe (and by extension Europeans) have this blind acceptance and tolerance for the Jews/Israel after World War Two. Don't know who is aware of what the March of the Living is, but while on it marching through Poland I was literally spat on by Polish people. One of whom (and one of the few who did so that spoke enough English to try to continue to antagonize me) outright blamed me (a jew) for what "happened to Poland." I have also experienced some pretty horrible anti-semitism in other European countries while backpacking through Europe, (France especially, England, and also Denmark stand out). I live in Canada, and it happens here too. I think it's important that we shed this naivety that antisemitism is a pocketed, isolated problem. note: For the record, racism exists everywhere. Nobody (short of the white christian male, aged 21-45) is devoid from facing it in their lives. I don't think this allows for a carte blance for Jewish people or Israelis to do as they please. Everyone has a shit time in life, and lots of people are targets for others' anger.
I think it's exceptionally important to try to view this situation without any preconceived bias (which I accept is difficult). This is an issue that has been central to me for my entire life, being that I myself am Jewish yet am also vehemently against the zionist movement. I believe, in spite of my Jewish background, that it is exceptionally important for there to be a Palestinian state.
For the entirety of Israel's history, it has been an enormous struggle for them to try to gain acceptance from their neighbours. Even today, there is an easiness about the peace that Israel does share with - only some- of their neighbours. Israel has often been taken for granted in these situations during their attempts for peace. They defended their own borders in 1967 from six other countries at once, and in the process of defending their land, were able to counter beyond their contain and into enemy territory (vagued SC2 reference, I figured if it's not appropriate here?). Since 1967 Israel has progressively given back that land, inspite of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it was theirs fair and square. Historically they have made other concessions for peace, and they have been taken for granted.
I believe that Israel needs to be the ones helping to form the Palestinian state. They should take the extra step and show they are willing to do what is necessary for peace, even if it's beyond what is in their best interest. Be the first party to take that risk.
...However. If that trust is abused, (for example the Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever. If the Palestinian people truly want peace, then they too have a fucking responsibility to police themselves and do whatever they can to stop the violence against Israel. It has proven it can get their "innocents" killed, and it is about time they put some of their own effort into fixing this situation. This same principle applies to the idiot Israeli zionists that insist on populating Gaza and the West Bank. I don't care about their feelings of entitlement, it's time to mature and grow up, and learn to make some sacrifices. You've get the rest of the "Holy Land" to choose from, your indignation gets people killed, it's time to pack up your shit and move out.
The history of Israel's attempts for peace can be summed up in the phrase: if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk Ah, so everyone is wrong, and the Israelis are innocent lambs, including how the country was founded. I learn a new thing every day. Btw, Israel was the aggressor in '67 with a surprise invasion of Egypt and Syria. I'd argue otherwise. There were aggressive actions (although not direct action ones) on the opposing sides. They could have defused the situation but they didn't. And you know why? Because they wanted war. Conspiracy theories aside, so you're saying because Germany had some of its land taken following WW1 and because it was heavily oppressed and economically depressed by the treaty terms enforced by the British and French, that Germany was fully justified in taking Poland, to which land was given following WW1, a war neither started by the Germans, but they were by far punished the most for it because they were the most powerful belligerent on the losing side (or the government collapse side lol). You're going to have to justify that as well.
The fact of the matter is the Israelis were the aggressor. I don't see why you deny this. They made a surprise attack against unsuspecting states.. Quoted excerpt from the wiki page on the issue, in no way were these unsuspecting states: In May 1967, Nasser received false reports from the Soviet Union that Israel was massing on the Syrian border.[20] Nasser began massing his troops in the Sinai Peninsula on Israel's border (May 16), expelled the UNEF force from Gaza and Sinai (May 19), and took up UNEF positions at Sharm el-Sheikh, overlooking the Straits of Tiran.[21][22] UN Secretary-General U Thant proposed that the UNEF force be redeployed on the Israeli side of the border, but this was rejected by Israel despite U.S. pressure.[23] Israel reiterated declarations made in 1957 that any closure of the Straits would be considered an act of war, or a justification for war.[24][25] Nasser declared the Straits closed to Israeli shipping on May. 22–23 On May 30, Jordan and Egypt signed a defense pact. The following day, at Jordan's invitation, the Iraqi army began deploying troops and armored units in Jordan.[26] They were later reinforced by an Egyptian contingent. On June 1, Israel formed a National Unity Government by widening its cabinet, and on June 4 the decision was made to go to war. The next morning, Israel launched Operation Focus, a large-scale surprise air strike that was the opening of the Six-Day War. So... Nasser closed the straits, and the Israelis got pissed and decided to start bombing unsuspecting nations. Jordan seemed to have felt threatened by Israel, which wasn't unfounded seeing as the Israelis were about to start a war and were probably making aggressive statements and movements beforehand, and requested Iraqi forces in case of Israeli assault. In any case, you're still proving my point that the Israelis were the aggressors. Why are you in such fervent denial of this fact? Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 02:25 Sgonzo wrote:On November 03 2011 02:07 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On November 03 2011 01:50 Durp wrote:I find it really interesting in this thread to see how many people blindly believe Europe (and by extension Europeans) have this blind acceptance and tolerance for the Jews/Israel after World War Two. Don't know who is aware of what the March of the Living is, but while on it marching through Poland I was literally spat on by Polish people. One of whom (and one of the few who did so that spoke enough English to try to continue to antagonize me) outright blamed me (a jew) for what "happened to Poland." I have also experienced some pretty horrible anti-semitism in other European countries while backpacking through Europe, (France especially, England, and also Denmark stand out). I live in Canada, and it happens here too. I think it's important that we shed this naivety that antisemitism is a pocketed, isolated problem. note: For the record, racism exists everywhere. Nobody (short of the white christian male, aged 21-45) is devoid from facing it in their lives. I don't think this allows for a carte blance for Jewish people or Israelis to do as they please. Everyone has a shit time in life, and lots of people are targets for others' anger.
I think it's exceptionally important to try to view this situation without any preconceived bias (which I accept is difficult). This is an issue that has been central to me for my entire life, being that I myself am Jewish yet am also vehemently against the zionist movement. I believe, in spite of my Jewish background, that it is exceptionally important for there to be a Palestinian state.
For the entirety of Israel's history, it has been an enormous struggle for them to try to gain acceptance from their neighbours. Even today, there is an easiness about the peace that Israel does share with - only some- of their neighbours. Israel has often been taken for granted in these situations during their attempts for peace. They defended their own borders in 1967 from six other countries at once, and in the process of defending their land, were able to counter beyond their contain and into enemy territory (vagued SC2 reference, I figured if it's not appropriate here?). Since 1967 Israel has progressively given back that land, inspite of the fact that for all intents and purposes, it was theirs fair and square. Historically they have made other concessions for peace, and they have been taken for granted.
I believe that Israel needs to be the ones helping to form the Palestinian state. They should take the extra step and show they are willing to do what is necessary for peace, even if it's beyond what is in their best interest. Be the first party to take that risk.
...However. If that trust is abused, (for example the Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever. If the Palestinian people truly want peace, then they too have a fucking responsibility to police themselves and do whatever they can to stop the violence against Israel. It has proven it can get their "innocents" killed, and it is about time they put some of their own effort into fixing this situation. This same principle applies to the idiot Israeli zionists that insist on populating Gaza and the West Bank. I don't care about their feelings of entitlement, it's time to mature and grow up, and learn to make some sacrifices. You've get the rest of the "Holy Land" to choose from, your indignation gets people killed, it's time to pack up your shit and move out.
The history of Israel's attempts for peace can be summed up in the phrase: if you give a mouse a cookie, he's going to ask for a glass of milk Ah, so everyone is wrong, and the Israelis are innocent lambs, including how the country was founded. I learn a new thing every day. Btw, Israel was the aggressor in '67 with a surprise invasion of Egypt and Syria. Were you talking to people and saying these things and you got spit on? I don't see why people would randomly spit on you because you're Jewish, ESPECIALLY in a country like Poland. The only spitting I've heard of is Israeli Jews spitting on Christians vacationing there, and that's reasonable considering some of those spitting guys are religious fanatics and don't like non-Jews in the country. well i know you for ignorant after this post, you know that poland percentage wise has one of the highest neo-nazi populations in europe? Do you have anything to back up this claim since apparently it's so well-known? Even some Polish people have told me the direct opposite, so unless there's some statistic or study (which I'm sure will be easy for you to find since this is such common knowledge) that Poland is neo-nazis dreamland, then best not call people ignorant, nevermind for not knowing a very obscure thing.
from wikipedia
Anti-Semites in Poland have been appointed to crucial government and media positions. The deputy chairman of Poland's state owned TV Network Piotr Farfal is a Polish neo-Nazi, "far-right political activist and a former editor-in-chief of the Polish skinhead magazine Front, which openly supports anti-Semitism." Polands former deputy prime minister and education minister Roman Giertych, who supported Farfals appointment, is also a leader of the far right and antisemitic League of Polish Families
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On November 03 2011 03:04 Durp wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 02:58 Pika Chu wrote:Durp, i will quote something you said: Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever That is what I said, though taken pretty remarkably out of context. You should edit for Michael Moore.
In or out, it's just as sick. You don't take palestinians for human beings or equals of israelis.
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For the record, Canada did not withdraw funding from UNESCO.
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On November 03 2011 03:20 Pika Chu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 03:04 Durp wrote:On November 03 2011 02:58 Pika Chu wrote:Durp, i will quote something you said: Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever That is what I said, though taken pretty remarkably out of context. You should edit for Michael Moore. In or out, it's just as sick. You don't take palestinians for human beings or equals of israelis.
You could supplant any two groups of people for the parties at hand, my feelings wouldn't change in the slightest.
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United States7483 Posts
On November 03 2011 02:16 BarbieHsu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 02 2011 23:10 BestZergOnEast wrote:
The Palestinian people don't need a state, they need Israeli tanks to stop bull dozing their villages. Let's face the facts, Israel is a regional super power. They have the backing of America, gross military superiority and nuclear weapons. Palestine is the worlds largest open air prison. Israel is a terrorist state. Now I don't idolize the Palestinian people either. The truth is usually in conflicts both sides are evil and there's really no way we, as outside observers, can lend much insight into the situation. I think the best thing that the world community can do is stop sending both sides of this conflict money, stop supporting any of them, and leave them to work out their problems on their own. But if they stopped fighting, who would America sell weapons to? That aside, I always though that Israel had the right to overreact to things, since every single one of its neighbors has wanted to eliminate it as a nation and race since day one. But some things they have done to Palestinian civilians seem excessive and unnecessary for their self-defense... and that's just terrible.
And Israel needs them to stop firing artillery and missiles. Let's not pretend either side is blameless.
The people of Israel feel they have a right to defend themselves, and they do not feel safe. Whether they belong on that land is a separate issue, but most of them would be happy to let Palestine have a state, so long as it doesn't require the elimination of Israel.
This isn't a black and white issue, Palestine wants Israel gone PERIOD. Israel will not leave voluntarily. Despite various attempts at peace talks and some reasonable offers, the two sides can't agree with one another. Something is going to have to give at some point.
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On November 03 2011 03:20 Pika Chu wrote:
You don't take palestinians for human beings or equals of israelis.
Unfortunately neither do the Palestinians. When you demand 1000 of your prisoners for one of your enemy's you kinda set your own exchange rate. So apparently the Palestinians think that they are worth 1/1000 of an Israeli.
Also why are we funding 20% of UNESCO when they have 160+ members????
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On November 03 2011 03:20 Pika Chu wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 03:04 Durp wrote:On November 03 2011 02:58 Pika Chu wrote:Durp, i will quote something you said: Palestinian government doesn't police its citizens and rockets are still being shot out of Palestine into Israel) I would feel strongly that Israel would have every right to then go fuck up whoever there they want. Men, women, soldiers, civilians, whomever That is what I said, though taken pretty remarkably out of context. You should edit for Michael Moore. In or out, it's just as sick. You don't take palestinians for human beings or equals of israelis.
Yeah sick quote seriously...
How can this guy have the balls to show such obvious hate and then continue the discussion like he is a normal TL poster, I wonder.
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On November 03 2011 03:31 FryBender wrote:Show nested quote +On November 03 2011 03:20 Pika Chu wrote:
You don't take palestinians for human beings or equals of israelis.
Unfortunately neither do the Palestinians. When you demand 1000 of your prisoners for one of your enemy's you kinda set your own exchange rate. So apparently the Palestinians think that they are worth 1/1000 of an Israeli. Also why are we funding 20% of UNESCO when they have 160+ members????
no1 knows why USA pays so much into UNESCO, but the real question is why do they spend couple trillion a year on dropping bombs
User was warned for this post
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EPT
