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We are extremely close to shutting down this thread for the same reasons the PUA thread was shut down. While some of the time this thread contains actual discussion with people asking help and people giving nice advice, it often gets derailed by rubbish that should not be here. The moderation team will be trying to steer this thread in a different direction from now on.
Posts of the following nature are banned:
1) ANYTHING regarding PUA. If your post contains the words 'alpha' or 'beta' or anything of that sort please don't hit post.
2) Stupid brags. You can tell us about your nice success stories with someone, but posts such as 'lol 50 Tinder matches' are a no-no.
3) Any misogynistic bullshit, including discussion about rape culture.
4) One night stands and random sex. These are basically brags that invariably devolve into gender role discussions and misogynistic comments.
Last chance, guys. This thread is for dating advice and sharing dating stories. While gender roles, sociocultural norms, and our biological imperative to reproduce are all tangentially related, these subjects are not the main purpose of the thread. Please AVOID these discussions. If you want to discuss them at length, go to PMs or start a blog. If you disagree with someone's ideologies, state that you disagree with them and why they won't work from a dating standpoint and move on. We will not tolerate any lengthy derailments that aren't directly about dating. |
On September 28 2016 17:33 Acrofales wrote:
Nah. SoSexy had a very unique perspective on women, probably only ever equalled on this site by shauny. Bloodwhore seems to realize that women are people and have rights. He just wants to find his true loveget in their pants.
Hehe. I'm trying to find my true love (or at least a little love), but it's hard. Just fucking around probably isn't for me either, sex is nice but I think it will be a lot better if feelings are involved.
I have also gotten kind of tired of dating since it almost always ends with either she doesn't want me or I don't want her.
On September 28 2016 18:52 waffelz wrote:No offence, but I don't feel like you are qualified to give relationship advice yet  . I sure hope you will be able to do so in the future though 
I think I am more qualified to give input regarding age than you dying people with arthritis . And my 'advice' shouldn't be taken as advice but as general thoughts from someone else in that age range.
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On September 28 2016 19:29 bloodwhore~ wrote:I think I am more qualified to give input regarding age than you dying people with arthritis . And my 'advice' shouldn't be taken as advice but as general thoughts from someone else in that age range.
You can't really compare having slept a few times with someone much younger than you to trying to form a meaningful relationship with them, that’s all I meant with my comment. Relationships are a lot more than just the physical and attraction and while for example it probably is even much easier to sleep with a much younger partner, having a relationship with them can be much more difficult than with someone of similar age.
By now I wouldn’t deny that your dating advices might be good, but unless you experienced a relationship that went past the point where it is dominated by the pure physical attraction (if it ever was), you should practice modesty, which doesn’t shine through with this:
On September 28 2016 03:41 bloodwhore~ wrote:
How are you so worried about almost 21 and 26? That's definitely fine. 5 years when you're both over 20 is nothing to me.
Remember, I have no interest in just finding fuckbuddies
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5-6 years difference when both in their twenties doesn't bother me at all either. I guess some would find it shocking but I believe people mostly remain at the same level of maturity from 20 up to the moment they find a stable job/true long-term relationship. I also feel we westerners are part of a generation that becomes truly 'adult' a lot slower than our parents.
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When I was 21 I found a GF that was 16. Ended in an almost 7 year long relationship and a lasting friendship. My then GF was fairly mature for her age, being a replacement mother for her younger sisters and all that, so that might have had something to do with the success.
A 5 year difference is fine as long as both are happy with it and mentally not too unequal. Once both are 20+, age difference becomes irrelevant. Of my two female friends, one is in a relationship with someone ~10 years older (29->39), the other with someone 13 years older (25->38) and they are both fairly happy.
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United States15275 Posts
Call me cynical, but I rarely meet men in their 20s who have a comprehensive idea of what "maturity" even entails. In reference to women, it's mostly self-serving nonsense that justifies their own mediocrity.
On September 28 2016 19:49 waffelz wrote:
You can't really compare having slept a few times with someone much younger than you to trying to form a meaningful relationship with them, that’s all I meant with my comment. Relationships are a lot more than just the physical and attraction and while for example it probably is even much easier to sleep with a much younger partner, having a relationship with them can be much more difficult than with someone of similar age.
Why are you so concerned about forming a meaningful relationship at 26? You have limited control over whether this circumstance will evolve into something more, and it should not be the priority of your life anyway. Frankly you're doing this girl a disservice by burdening her with your pointless neuroticism. Part of being grown up is realizing when you are wasting energy on frantic activity for the sake of feeling like you are "doing something".
Whether or not you two have the foundation for a long-term relationship is debatable. But it rarely works out when one party doubts their right to participating in it and depends on the other for happiness.
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If I may chime in on the age debate, my currect gf is 21 and I'm 25, nearing 26 and while I do think there's alot of difference between us (not generalizing here, just between us), there's just this kind of chemistry I haven't had with anyone else before so I just kept being interested in her while in all my other trials it faded or just flat out fell off.
I think you aren't concerned or wondering if age difference is too much when you find that someone you think you can build something with.
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On September 29 2016 02:52 CosmicSpiral wrote:
Why are you so concerned about forming a meaningful relationship at 26?
I like to look back on my decisions and be able to think "Given the amount of informations/input I had, my decisions/motives where reasonable/right". And I have problems to motivate myself when it comes to stuff that doesn’t have a real purpose/isn’t a real solution.
Sure, you can’t tell if a relationship is going to last but occasionally you are able to tell if it won’t and in that case I just wouldn’t be able to put in the effort. I am also not the type of person to have a relationship with someone if I am certain that it runs on a timer.
You have limited control over whether this circumstance will evolve into something more, and it should not be the priority of your life anyway.
I am not sure if I understand you correctly, but in general I feel everyone is free to choose his priorities in life. Not saying that a meaningful relationship is my top priority, but it certainly is a high one and I can't see anything wrong with that.
Frankly you're doing this girl a disservice by burdening her with your pointless neuroticism.
Labelling legit concerns based on a few posts on an internet forum in a foreign language as neuroticism to me seems like a big stretch (I just now read your blogpost, unfortunately I missed it back then when it was relevant. Nice read but for the most part it is completely wrong, even though my poor writing probably plays a big role with this). Plus it is not like she doesn’t have similar concerns /concerns of her own. I also believe that it is important to share your emotions and thoughts with your partner.
Part of being grown up is realizing when you are wasting energy on frantic activity for the sake of feeling like you are "doing something".
Not sure how this relates to my post since it provides very little substance to make this appear relevant.
Whether or not you two have the foundation for a long-term relationship is debatable.
Can’t disagree on that since it is impossible to tell.
But it rarely works out when one party doubts their right to participating in it and depends on the other for happiness.
A big stretch when it comes to the “depends on the other for happiness”-part, but it might be more of a general claim rather than actual directed at my post. I feel like it is normal for people with a certain level of self-awareness to have doubts though, and quite often they are present in both parties in the beginning. Engaging a relationship always means opening up and being vulnerable which often comes with some doubts initially.
So far I just can’t decide if you are actually someone with a serious background in psychology that simply reads way too much into small posts on the internet, or if you just dabbled enough into psychology to feel like you figured stuff out combined with undeniable writing skills. (You know like 3rd/4th semester psychology students, that plus the ability to properly form an argument in a way that it sounds convincing if you don’t think too much about it/don’t know any better)
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In my personal experience, most psychologists are utterly bewildered by everything that isn't a hyperactive child or a divorced couple, but I don't know which way that swings an analysis of Cosmic's post
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You can't say you are focused on long term relationships and wouldn't be one in one if it were on a timer and at the same time consider <11 year (longer being an issue just because of kids and you potentially dying too soon to raise them if your wife doesn't have em very young) age difference on it's own. Logically that makes no sense as you are considering a 50+year horizon of co-existence where anything under 10years is pretty much a non factor especially for a man who's older where reproduction isn't an issue around 40
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Long term in the sense of not having any intention to end it at a certain point / feeling like it won’t go past beyond a certain point. For example, there are quite a few fellow students who have girlfriends but admit in private that they have no intention to marry them/keep them forever but rather enjoy the benefits of having them until they finished their studies and feel like settling and looking for wife material.
Or if you know you really want kids while your partner knows just as much that he doesn’t want any. Sure you can hope for one of you to change his mind but to me it is absolutely reasonable to end the relationship because of that.
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Well yeah, what's that have to do with age though.
First case both seem all good, consensual for both sides.
Second is just flat out difference in values.
If people are borderline retarded and are dishonest/withhold important information or don't act on their values that again doesn't have much to do with age - those people you'll meet in all walks of life.
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Sure, difference that are a result of different age will most likely go away at some point but it is questionable if you can tolerate them until that point. Also I wouldn't feel like getting into a relationship on the basis of hoping that my partner would change, this seems fundamentally flawed. The connection to the child-example is that in both cases there are some things that need to change in order for it to work out in the long run. I do realize my cautions regarding age difference are less of a long term relationship preventing matter and more of an idealistic nature/different approach though, so it was wrong to bring it up in that context.
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United States15275 Posts
On September 29 2016 06:24 waffelz wrote:
I like to look back on my decisions and be able to think "Given the amount of information/input I had, my decisions/motives were reasonable/right". And I have problems to motivate myself when it comes to stuff that doesn’t have a real purpose/isn’t a real solution.
Which is a noble impulse, but it's a bit odd to treat a romantic relationship from a pseudo-utilitarian standpoint. I suppose, in a weird way, that provides an explanation for the anxiety issue.
On September 29 2016 06:24 waffelz wrote:
Sure, you can’t tell if a relationship is going to last but occasionally you are able to tell if it won’t and in that case I just wouldn’t be able to put in the effort. I am also not the type of person to have a relationship with someone if I am certain that it runs on a timer.
Fair enough.
On September 29 2016 06:24 waffelz wrote:
I am not sure if I understand you correctly, but in general I feel everyone is free to choose his priorities in life. Not saying that a meaningful relationship is my top priority, but it certainly is a high one and I can't see anything wrong with that.
There's nothing wrong with having it up there. However, I personally believe that one should never make the relationship the highest priority. Paradoxically, too much investment in it ruins the relationship.
On September 29 2016 06:24 waffelz wrote:
Labeling legit concerns based on a few posts on an internet forum in a foreign language as neuroticism to me seems like a big stretch (I just now read your blogpost, unfortunately I missed it back then when it was relevant. Nice read but for the most part it is completely wrong, even though my poor writing probably plays a big role with this). Plus it is not like she doesn’t have similar concerns/concerns of her own. I also believe that it is important to share your emotions and thoughts with your partner.
I wasn't using it in a clinical sense (what would be the point?). You are being neurotic on this issue.
Your concerns are legitimate in the sense that they are phrased so vaguely that they could remain possibilities forever. All your posts describe them in the same way: a lot of ifs and tangential rationales.
In my view, there are two major reasons why it is a disservice:
- She is younger than you. You have more life experience and should be more able to handle the anxieties and concerns of a relationship. It is not enough to merely "share your emotions and thoughts"; this is standard fare for trying to make a relationship work. She has to be able to emotionally depend on you if she gets overwhelmed by those concerns, and that goes beyond having a good discussion.
- You are, unintentionally, putting an emotional burden on her as long as you don't come to terms with your thoughts. Now she has to worry about triggering your anxieties if they might come up during your time together. She'll have to adjust her behavior for the sake of keeping the relationship stable.
I don't remember that specific blogpost. What was it about again?
On September 29 2016 06:24 waffelz wrote:
Not sure how this relates to my post since it provides very little substance to make this appear relevant.
All your posts on this girl involve worrying about something: an age difference, the remarkable coincidences of your personality and circumstances making things more painful if it fails, etc. All of them are outside your control and not helpful towards having a healthy relationship; you even admit this at several points. And yet you continue to do it. I pointed it out because it's ironic to speak out about "age-related issues" when you're exhibiting a classic age-related issue. One can always argue "males develop more slowly than females", blah blah blah, but that's really besides the point.
On September 29 2016 06:24 waffelz wrote:
Can’t disagree on that since it is impossible to tell.
Well duh, you're the only one who can make a judgment on that.
On September 29 2016 06:24 waffelz wrote:
A big stretch when it comes to the “depends on the other for happiness”-part, but it might be more of a general claim rather than actual directed at my post. I feel like it is normal for people with a certain level of self-awareness to have doubts though, and quite often they are present in both parties in the beginning. Engaging a relationship always means opening up and being vulnerable which often comes with some doubts initially.
All your posts on the subject suggest otherwise.
Being vulnerable does not equate to worrying based on conjecture.
On September 29 2016 06:24 waffelz wrote:
So far I just can’t decide if you are actually someone with a serious background in psychology that simply reads way too much into small posts on the internet, or if you just dabbled enough into psychology to feel like you figured stuff out combined with undeniable writing skills. (You know like 3rd/4th semester psychology students, that plus the ability to properly form an argument in a way that it sounds convincing if you don’t think too much about it/don’t know any better)
I'm a dog with a English degree. Occasionally I indulge in therapy whenever my owner takes me out for walks.
I don't put much credence in a field dominated by semiotics, internal politics, and very questionable studies. Psychology is useful as long as I ignore the community's incessant desire to be labeled as "scientific". However, it still helps people as long as it is honest and simply tries to maintain some internally consistent paradigms.
They are useful precisely because they are "small posts" (which you've made several of). If we were doing insight-oriented therapy, a whole host of problems would arise from being face-to-face. But since we don't know each other and you have zero reason to care about what I say, you can post your honest thoughts. Whether or not they are reflective of reality is a different matter.
(Also in terms of "diagnosis", the length of the patient's spiel is generally irrelevant. 90% of the time you can make a reasonable conclusion based on how the patient frames their experience and what their referents are. Allowing them to talk freely is done for their benefit.)
In short, I'm saying you're getting in your own way. You could be happy now if you changed the way you approached the relationship. There's some other odd stuff going on but that doesn't matter.
On September 29 2016 06:27 farvacola wrote:In my personal experience, most psychologists are utterly bewildered by everything that isn't a hyperactive child or a divorced couple, but I don't know which way that swings an analysis of Cosmic's post
Usually I post here while hopped up on Nyquil. That probably explains a lot of things...
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Your cautions about age difference sound more like bullshit and you protecting yourself from being hurt again, I just read that you're both students, just 5years difference and you said 0tangible age related potential issues.
I really hope you go to therapy or at least some workshops on this as you obviously have loads of baggage from past relationships. You will get cheated on and hurt time and time again I'd say unless you'll deal with your own stuff and start being honest with yourself.
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I've been going on a couple of dates with two different girls. Baetential is pretty high for both of them. I went canoeing with girl A on the lake, and we landed on at a park and did some dog watching. Going to play tennis with her on saturday.
Girl B, taking to a baseball game tomorrow for our second date. The teams playing some crucial games to clinch the wildcard spot so should be exciting.
I'll see where things go over the next couple of weeks before comitting
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tbh my mom is like 10 years older than my stepdad and they met when he was like 16 and they've been together for like 24 years so idk
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Yeah, my closest girl friend is 18, and she's way calmer and more mature in many ways than 24-28 year olds I usually date. I will turn 30 before she turns 20 and I still feel like I have more of a connection to her that to most of my companions.
When I started uni at 24, I felt like the 18 year olds I started with were another species, but every once in a while there were outliers that I could connect to.
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On September 29 2016 09:32 LemOn wrote:
Your cautions about age difference sound more like bullshit and you protecting yourself from being hurt again, I just read that you're both students, just 5years difference and you said 0tangible age related potential issues.
I really hope you go to therapy or at least some workshops on this as you obviously have loads of baggage from past relationships. You will get cheated on and hurt time and time again I'd say unless you'll deal with your own stuff and start being honest with yourself.
I wasn't making a point about my current relationship but rather on the broader/general issue of age-gap and why I probably wouldn't go any younger at the moment. Last post I also admitted that it wasn’t something that definitely prevents a long term relationship as age related differences will probably grow out BUT you are completely ignoring my point that maybe it is better not to engage in a relationship for which success it is vital that one of the participants does change and instead pointing me towards therapy is odd.
I admit in my case it is just a bad feeling, but to put things a bit into perspective, first I have to lay out a few key points that I regard as maturity (not complete):
- Not being completely full of yourself and realizing that the world doesn’t evolve around you
- The ability to perceive the long term and immediate consequences of actions both for you and others as well as being able to weight your options accordingly
- Understanding and minimizing personal interest when evaluating decisions
- Understanding how “the world” works to some degree
Those are some basic points which generally I haven’t experienced that much with people at my age while growing up. Even now I often find them missing and I always was more oriented to hanging out with older people and always have been well perceived by them. This probably is the simple reason to why I automatically am a bit more critical about people younger than me, simply based on experience.
My experience also shows that a person doesn’t have to match all of this, but if he/she lacks certain combinations of this, I find it hard to spend excessive amounts of time with them aside from just fooling around. And we are talking just about friendships/hanging out to this point. I get uncomfortable around people that make me feel I am ahead of them. If those people share the feeling of me being ahead/looking up to me, I even feel more uncomfortable. People that make me feel I am significantly smarter than them make me uncomfortable, people that feel like I am significantly smarter than them even more so. I am not good at handling compliments. Additionally, I like to take part in serious discussions and with those I often find myself having to explain myself a lot which often leads to them regarding me even higher, which makes me even more uncomfortable and so on.
Taking this back now to a relationship, I just couldn’t really feel comfortable with someone like that. It is important to me that my partner somewhat matches or exceeds me in terms of intellect and isn’t missing to many of those maturity points, and I just don’t feel like it is very likely for someone at a certain age being able to do so. I cringe when seeing big age differences at certain ages because I am certain that most of the times the relationship isn’t close to be an even headed one and they often fail after the physical attraction falls off while leaving open if one was being dishonest or simply blind. It can work out, but I don’t feel like it is very likely and I am certain that pushing the clouding mist of fresh love aside, the older usually would have to admit that it was entirely physical (which can be fine of course as long as both are aware and open about it). Plus I personally already know that I can’t tolerate a partner for too long that subordinates himself/gives me the feeling of superiority. I also had this position before I got proof that it checks out for me.
Coming back to my current actual relationship though, speaking by the pure fact that I am still in it and continue to go forward with it, you should have kept your “You just want to avoid getting hurt” to yourself. Since I am in this relationship and so far willed stick with it, I don’t see much avoiding of potentially getting hurt. Since it is fitting, the something relevant to this which an actual psychologist told me, was that I have strong tendencies for disregarding myself while putting increased emphasis on others, occasionally almost completely pushing myself out of the picture when making decisions and/or judging my actions. But I am working on that also so TL psychology101 can rest peacefully
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Tomorrow I have a second date with a girl that is pretty hot on the outside but pretty cold on the inside.
Don't get me wrong she's friendly enough but she just might be enough of a sociopath to go on dates just to get free food and booze. Any of you guys had experience with girls that seem to be more interested in what you can give them than you?
BTW this is a very casual date so no need for "she doesn't really love you!" kind of advice (although well meant).
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of course there are outliers as Dick said, but by and large, a 5 year age gap means you will have vastly different life experiences and perspectives until both parties are into their 30s or so. ie, when people are well into their careers and full fledged adults. I'm not really sure why that is such a contentious point
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EPT
