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On January 12 2016 03:31 QuanticHawk wrote:
check back with us in 10 years when you get a little life experience before calling people cowards for not wanting to risk their job over the office hot girl, and when your idea of love isn't tied so closely to one's physical attractiveness. you can lose your best friend and still pay the bills. you can lose your job for fucking at the work place, get no unemployment, and get fucked in a way you don't want to be fucked.
I'm not even going to bother with this. Re-read what I wrote because you have misinterpreted 90% of what I said.
even if your workplace has zero rules about workplace boinking, going to your boss and saying 'i want a transfer so I can fuck your employees free of consequence' is not going to be received warmly, to say the least.
You obviously do not have to say it in that way, and I'm not really sure what kind of companies you work for but to me it seems like generally in Sweden at least people are not complete assholes. I've visited a few companies and most of them are fine with people changing departments, regardless of the reason. It could be that you just want to go move to another country because yolo.
You wouldn't stay with the love of your life if it meant to check for another job?
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How do you know if anybody is the love of your life without spending time with them in a romantic setting? People act differently at work than they do in relationships, to the point where having spent months or years working with them doesn't have to mean you'd somebody's 'love of their life'.
Sure it helps that you know them before you're dating, but nobody is the love of your life before having spent romantic time with them. And a lot of people just don't want to risk their job for that chance.
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Yeah I think what we see here is the different mind set in people who are career minded and those that are less so. Or just don't have a job or don't depend on it.
Regardless of that fucking in the workplace is something that happens quite a lot, it's just not for love if you catch my drift.
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its been mentioned already, but clearly the pro work relationships people are people who either have no idea what its like to see a failed relationship in the workplace or just dont take their careers seriously enough.
if you guys honestly think that innocently asking to change departments or whatever is going to be an easy solution to a failed romantic relationship, then you guys will never hold a leadership role in any company. everything you do gives off an image and everything you say leaves an impression. if you ask to change departments because you fucked up with the office hottie (dont give us the love of your life bullshit. how can you know shes the love of your life before you properly go out with her), not only are you showing your boss that you prioritise women over your job, but you also show that you suck at managing relationships.
the highest % marriages being started at a workplace has absolutely no correlation with success rate. id be interested to see highest % of failed relationships, because im pretty fking sure workplace relationships are going to be right up there.
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Speaking of office dating, at the office holiday party this year the hot 21 year old intern got way too drunk and tried dancing with me. Now the context of this is that it was early in the evening and basically nobody in the room was drunk or dancing at this point, just standing around having a conversation, and she comes up and wraps her arms around me very unexpectedly and was being very familiar when we aren't. All the big shot bosses were there and we suddenly became the center of attention.
This of course leaves me with no choice but to play it off - I kind of smiled and laughed and took her hands away and gave a "help me" look to her boss who thankfully is a very cool girl around my age (28) who came to the rescue by bringing her away to another group of people. At least I dodged that bullet without making it awkward for everyone. Anyway I say hi to her in the hallways periodically, and now I am looking back on it and having small FOMO since this girl might have the hots for me (or not) but I feel there's nothing much for me to do about it given the context of the situation.
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Of the many reasons why office dating is a Bad Idea:
1) You can't tell if someone is the "love of your life" unless you have properly dated him or her. So this issue about "love conquers all" does not enter the picture until later. And basically you have to make a decision before that whether you should date your office friend.
2) If you do decide to go for it, you have very litter control how (a) the person will react; and (b) the rest of the office will react. Sure... they COULD be cool about it like you, but it is far more probable that he/she is not into you and/or the rest of the office thinks you're a sleeze. Remember - these are people's perceptions of you, and while you can try to act in a manner that does not encourage negative perceptions, ultimately you have no control over people's perception.
3) In more traditional professions, dating within the office is simply just taboo and something that will get you a Talk from the boss.
4) If you are in ANY KIND of leadership/seniority position, dating any junior is an incredibly bad idea because you will have a super difficult time avoiding the impression that you are granting favors/going easy on the person that you are dating. This is bad for morale in the firm, and just generates necessary drama.
5) Finally, this is work ffs. It's the thing putting money in your bank account, and keeping your mortgage funded. If you screw up at work you lose your job and you're going to have a really shitty time meeting your financial commitments after that. Worse still you lose your professional credibility and that affects your future employability.
At the end of the day, I hate to play the experience card so I'll just say this. Work isn't easy. It's full of all sorts of stress and challenges, and Office Drama. It's like a WoW raid except less fun and the drama is more rancid, and getting kicked out of the raid means that your mortgage is going to kill you. I actually like my work because it's all that and challenging and rewarding, but I'm sure as heck not going to voluntarily take on the added and completely unnecessary stress of trying to balance all that with dating.
(The idea of dating another lawyer also makes me die inside a little)
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If you've seen people in college (or even some high schools or boarding schools depending on maturity level) who used to be close then break up but have to interact because they share friends/ classes/ whatever, that's about 1/10 as bad as when a work relationship goes sour. There is a lot more on the line in a professional vs. academic setting.
Not saying it always is, but the risk v. reward is not usually very good. If anything, IMO a work relationship kind of has to go the backdoor. You guys hang out, work together well, eventually it becomes clear you guys have chemistry and are closing in on the relationship naturally. That seems like the best way for it to happen and gain acceptance from everyone else (who isn't a dick at least). Being super pushy and fast about it is a easy way to get yourself in a sticky situation.
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It's like that show The Office where it takes like seven or eight seasons for Jim & Pam to get together.
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On January 12 2016 04:05 LemOn wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2016 03:31 QuanticHawk wrote:
check back with us in 10 years when you get a little life experience before calling people cowards for not wanting to risk their job over the office hot girl, and when your idea of love isn't tied so closely to one's physical attractiveness. you can lose your best friend and still pay the bills. you can lose your job for fucking at the work place, get no unemployment, and get fucked in a way you don't want to be fucked.
even if your workplace has zero rules about workplace boinking, going to your boss and saying 'i want a transfer so I can fuck your employees free of consequence' is not going to be received warmly, to say the least. Why would you fuck at the workplace? And what falling for someone has to do with office hot girl? You usually get to see a person a lot at work to know it's more than physical, that's why meeting someone at work leads to highest % of marriages apparently out of all ways of meeting. I'm talking sensible adults who date outside of office hours - there's been people who were living together at the office and I had no clue until her surname changed :D And yeah I've worked for the largest UK bank and people rotating department every 1-2 years is super common practice. You can be honest about it or just say you want a new challenge? But if you're smart about going out why would you - it's not rocket science you keep PDA for outside of the office.
don't be pedantic it's obvious what i mean by fucking around at the work place. there are very obvious, potentially very serious consequences for fucking or dating a coworker, even in the abscense of written rules regarding such things.
For an employer, there are only potential negatives in having that going on, even if they're married. People aren't stupid. Your boss will know if you're dating co workers, and if you want to change depts, rest assured, your new bosses will know that too. Even if it's not immediately an issue, it is definitely the type of thing that can and most likely will effect you come review, raise, promotions, etc. Other people have noted why this is generally regarded as A Bad Idea, and it's not as simple as don't do PDA at work. The issue is that if it goes tits up, you can't control what your ex does. Even if it doesn't, you can't control what people think of you, and they (including bosses) will most definitely have an opinion of it. It will impact you in some fashion.
i mean if you don't care about potentially risking your career in some fashion for it, knock yourself out. But let's not sit here and pretend that it's no big deal, or that not pursing means 'you're a bit of a coward' as bloodwhore hilariously asserted
On January 12 2016 05:33 bloodwhore~ wrote:Show nested quote +On January 12 2016 03:31 QuanticHawk wrote:
check back with us in 10 years when you get a little life experience before calling people cowards for not wanting to risk their job over the office hot girl, and when your idea of love isn't tied so closely to one's physical attractiveness. you can lose your best friend and still pay the bills. you can lose your job for fucking at the work place, get no unemployment, and get fucked in a way you don't want to be fucked.
I'm not even going to bother with this. Re-read what I wrote because you have misinterpreted 90% of what I said. Show nested quote +
even if your workplace has zero rules about workplace boinking, going to your boss and saying 'i want a transfer so I can fuck your employees free of consequence' is not going to be received warmly, to say the least.
You obviously do not have to say it in that way, and I'm not really sure what kind of companies you work for but to me it seems like generally in Sweden at least people are not complete assholes. I've visited a few companies and most of them are fine with people changing departments, regardless of the reason. It could be that you just want to go move to another country because yolo. You wouldn't stay with the love of your life if it meant to check for another job?
you typed this:
On January 12 2016 03:14 bloodwhore~ wrote:
Might be harder if you work at a small company or under other specific circumstances but otherwise I think you're a bit of a coward not to go for it if you're truly in love.
which is so hilariously absurd and naive on multiple levels that you should print and save it so you can half a laugh down the road when you actually have a real career and some actual dating and life experience. your posts are always about how you have zero experience, you have a new love of your life every other week. Don't sit here and say stupid nonsense about how people are cowards
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Not really savage at all when he completely ignores the points I've made. I'm not claiming to have extensive dating and life experience. I'm just stating what I think. No need to act like you're above me, it just looks pathetic.
Almost everything you have said is in some way a specific circumstance which wouldn't make you a bit of a coward. For example if dating within your company was not allowed.
If you're not willing to risk anything for a potential reward then you're in my eyes a bit of a coward. That's practically the definition of a coward.
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I don't think he's not saying don't do it period, he's basically saying it's one of those situations where the risks are just so much likely to outweigh the rewards that it's rarely worth doing and only if you're pretty sure the girl (or guy) is something real special. Bravery and stupidity are often conflated, same is true for cowardice and caution.
If a relationship goes sour outside the work place, it sucks but it's not terrible. In high school, or college, it's a little worse because the exes see each other frequently, move in the same social circles, may have classes together. Still, in those situations it's possible for them to separate themselves. In work, you see people every day. You probably interact every day in various ways. People know everything (or you should assume they know enough). It's hard enough to do with people you disliked from the get-go, and is excruciating with someone who you used to be close with.
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On January 14 2016 00:56 bloodwhore~ wrote:
Not really savage at all when he completely ignores the points I've made. I'm not claiming to have extensive dating and life experience. I'm just stating what I think. No need to act like you're above me, it just looks pathetic.
Almost everything you have said is in some way a specific circumstance which wouldn't make you a bit of a coward. For example if dating within your company was not allowed.
If you're not willing to risk anything for a potential reward then you're in my eyes a bit of a coward. That's practically the definition of a coward.
Wow, calm down.
If you go by the wikipedia definition of coward:
Cowardice is a trait wherein fear and excess self-concern override doing or saying what is right, good and of help to others or oneself in a time of need
Risking ANYTHING for a small reward is not courage, it is plain stupid. Doing something because the reward outweights the risk even though the risk or drawback is scary is courage. Even if the reward is not for you but for the greater good or whatever.
It all comes down to how much you value your job. And if you get to know someone and you are 100% sure you want to date them, would you get a new job just to be able to date him/her? If that is too much of a price to pay then the reward does not outweight the risk of dating inside the workplace and is probably foolish. Does dating happen within the workplace? Yes, because that's the people you spend a TON of your life with and get to know them well (which you barely ever have time for outside the workplace). But many people separate dating and workplace. It is not cowardice, just commitment to the job that provides you with financial stability. Oh, and dating at the workplace is not just aweful when it goes wrong, even when it goes right it still is awkward for everyone involved most of the time. You might have to change your behaviour (because your colleagues and your mate for life might see you different), professional problems become personal real quick and vice-versa. You are supposed to both care and stay out of each others department and a ton of other things. It changes other people as well (maybe your colleagues really were into that hot young 21yo intern that got drunk and started dancing with you at the party?) and often enough lowers productive efficiency.
Don't mix up courage and foolishness. It is perfectly reasonable to value your job enough to not risk everything on a whim.
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On January 12 2016 10:28 TheFish7 wrote:
Speaking of office dating, at the office holiday party this year the hot 21 year old intern got way too drunk and tried dancing with me. Now the context of this is that it was early in the evening and basically nobody in the room was drunk or dancing at this point, just standing around having a conversation, and she comes up and wraps her arms around me very unexpectedly and was being very familiar when we aren't. All the big shot bosses were there and we suddenly became the center of attention.
This of course leaves me with no choice but to play it off - I kind of smiled and laughed and took her hands away and gave a "help me" look to her boss who thankfully is a very cool girl around my age (28) who came to the rescue by bringing her away to another group of people. At least I dodged that bullet without making it awkward for everyone. Anyway I say hi to her in the hallways periodically, and now I am looking back on it and having small FOMO since this girl might have the hots for me (or not) but I feel there's nothing much for me to do about it given the context of the situation.
She hates your face now. Big time. Trust me.
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On January 14 2016 01:20 Fi0na wrote:
It is perfectly reasonable to value your job enough to not risk everything on a whim.
The whole premise of this debate was that you know you love her, if this is the case you most likely know her very well, to the point where you should know if she likes you back. Thus not risking that all that much other than potential.
There are a lot of definitions out there who differ slightly.
From http://dictionary.reference.com/
a person who lacks courage in facing danger, difficulty, opposition, pain, etc.; a timid or easily intimidated person.
=> You're a bit of a coward. And in what world is being with the love of your life a "tiny reward"? No harm in being a bit of a coward when it comes to financial stability, however some risks might be worth it that's all I'm saying.
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The situation(s) that brought up this entire debate were:
On January 07 2016 14:53 RuskiPanda wrote:
Hi guys, looking for some advice. Interested in a girl at work (Yeah I know, but different departments and it's a short-term thing) that I've gotten to know better the last few weeks (lunch and a movie).
We're going to get dinner this week and she seems interested as well. Only caveat is I didn't call it a date as I was still hesitant about a work relationship. Should I just ask for a date the next time or go for it after dinner if it goes well?
Main thing I want to clear up with her is if I already friendzoned myself by getting too chummy before asking her out. Thanks!
Short-term? Not sure if referring to work or relationship. Yeah, not the love of your life.
On January 10 2016 22:59 Impervious wrote:
Eh, I've been flirting quite a bit with a girl at my work. She's only here on a temp job (she's covering for a medical leave), but she's also the daughter of a co-worker. I'm 27, she's 21, but she actually seems to have a pretty level head. Probably a bad idea, but fuck it, what's the worst that could happen?
This one is an awful idea. Screwing the daughter of a co-worker? Sounds like get laid, get fired.
Neither of these is about the love of your life/ the one/etc. It's about some sort of interest in someone you work with. There are a lot of people in the world to be sort of interested in. At such an early stage in a potential relationship it's a numbers game. Play the game, but not in the office. And both kind of sound like attempts to win the award for office sleaze.
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On January 14 2016 01:49 ticklishmusic wrote:
The situation(s) that brought up this entire debate were:
Nope.
Yeah I'm siding with Lem0n. To me it should be in the same category as falling in love with your best friend. There is a huge difference between "she's kinda hot but I won't risk my job for her" and "holy fuck I want to spend the rest of my life with her".
Unless you're in a really small department I don't see why you wouldn't go on a date, in a big company asking your boss to switch department shouldn't be out of the question if you think it would hinder your ability to do your job. Might be harder if you work at a small company or under other specific circumstances but otherwise I think you're a bit of a coward not to go for it if you're truly in love.
Was it the post that sparked the debate about being a coward.
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bloodwhore, I think the establishment of your premise (that you *already know with certainty that you love a coworker who you haven't tried spending non-platonic free time with yet*) is illogical, because you can't simply *know* such a thing. It's unrealistic and pointless to work off that premise. Initial interest is lust (or "puppy love"), not actual love. There's no guarantee that you'll end up loving this person, nor is there any guarantee that they'll love (or even like) you back. It's not a done deal, by any measure. She's just currently a platonic coworker, like everyone else.
It's a matter of whether or not you want to risk your job to see if anything romantic eventually emerges between you and a coworker, including love.
And for many people, such a risk is impractical and unrealistic, especially if they have an established and stable career (actual results) and not an established intimate relationship (just potential, however improbable it might be). Quite frankly, in most cases, I'd think that taking the risk would be far more naive and foolhardy and dangerous than I would consider not taking the risk to be cowardly.
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On January 14 2016 02:16 DarkPlasmaBall wrote:
bloodwhore, I think the establishment of your premise (that you *already know with certainty that you love a coworker who you haven't tried spending non-platonic free time with yet*) is illogical
I don't think it's illogical, just extremely improbable. If you have a coworker who you have worked for years who is not only a coworker but a friend who you hang out with in your spare time too. If you were to fall for her I don't think it's that unrealistic that you know if she likes you back in that way or not.
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EPT
